EPTNewbie Student Mafia XIX
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 25 2016 22:02 Half the Sky wrote: Also newbies, regardless of alignment, I tell you one thing - USE YOUR COACHES, they are there for a reason  How do we use coaches? Via PM? | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
Town: (none yet) Leaning Town: Alur, Trfel Null: PepperMintTea, nooniansong, Onegu Leaning Scum: darthfoley, _MexicanAlien Scum: Shapelog My reasoning on Shapelog: Shapelog has acted generally like a newbie scum player all game. He started the game off with about five jokes and no content. Given that this is day 1, that's not too important. I'm not sure how to feel on the weird read toward nooniansong, because it doesn't necessarily feel scummy or townie, just poorly informed. But the posts that really strike me are: On January 27 2016 06:41 Shapelog wrote: I am not trying to read him lol. I am just saying there is something he does and as the day(s) goes on I will look for it, if it is absent, I will comment on it. Unless your scum team kills me, in which case i can just use it later on  .and On January 27 2016 07:55 Shapelog wrote: Yeah i was revising the logic on it after Deathfy posted about it. Also I am always Sus. on my D1's, Both as Blue and Vt due to my reactive, blah blah blah trolling playstyle Yet to roll mafia sadly, thought this would be the one =(. In both of them, he mentions something about not being scum. Why would a townie ever do that? Why would anyone ever do that? "Unless your scum team kills me," and, "Yet to roll mafia sadly," are things normal townies don't just drop. It just screams to me, "Oh boy, what a shame I'm not mafia!" Also, "I am always Sus. on my D1's" doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but I haven't played with Shapelog before. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 27 2016 11:48 darthfoley wrote: Tumblewood, can you explain why you're town reading Trfel? He has four one liners so far. Which of them makes him lean town for you? I remember some slight town lean posts and nothing scummy, so that was enough to put him up there in my memory. Looking through his filter, though, there's not much to put him on one side or the other. If I had to redo that list, I'd swap Onegu and Trfel. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 27 2016 10:03 darthfoley wrote: Kush, i'm pretty sure that this wording indicates that mafia does know the specific setup, given that every mafia setup is the same. Could be wrong, but that seems pretty explicit, no? I am excited. To be fair, it's hard to be invested when only ~4 of 13 players have posted (when my quote you've used was written). I feel no pressure in terms of slip ups and stuff like that because i'm town, so I think it makes perfect sense that I come off as casual, especially on D1. I like what Noon has thought up so far regarding PeppermintTea; I don't think it makes much sense to read someone's nervousness as a newbie town read. WIFOM but I was super stressed out and had no idea how to get my footing when I played mafia as my first game. If you're going to read someone as nervous, I think the right lean would naturally be scum. and On January 27 2016 07:06 darthfoley wrote: The infamous Eden. Thankfully in this game I can answer your queries without having to worry about scum slipping are the relevant posts. I noted these-- the reason for my slight scum read on him-- because of this too. Especially the second one: It's such a nothing post (says nothing of value) and directly alludes to himself being town. The wording is also really weird, too; it almost looks like breadcrumbing but it doesn't say anything. "I can answer your queries without having to worry about scum slipping" is such a weird and unhelpful thing to say that it sounds like an eight-year-old with a good vocabulary was saying it. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
First, about our three main suspects: Onegu, PepperMintTea and Shapelog Onegu hasn't really done anything aside from his one big post and his arguments defending that post. Everything else is just Onegu being the Newbie Police. I won't quote that post since it's gigantic, but the read on Trfel is good and the rest doesn't say very much. It's hard to townread him for anything he's done this game, so he's a slight scumread. PepperMintTea hasn't done anything to give me an opinion of him. It looks to me as if people saw one post with sort of flawed logic and then went entirely off of that. Shapelog's early play (say, pre page 16) was scummy as hell. You guys are all townreading him for reasons that are mostly "Too scummy to be scum", like Eden's post (cropped) On January 27 2016 16:11 Eden1892 wrote: I skimmed the early stuff. It's a bit late and I don't really feel like reading the thread in a lot of depth right now, but I got a few early reads worth sharing. - Shapelog is obviously town, and the first thing I want to do when I get the motivation to read this game in detail (which will be tomorrow, hold me to this and don't let me be lazy) is to read the sequence of people scumreading him early while it was the "in" read to give, because I'm almost positive scum were involved in that. If I actually have to explain this (and if you need it explained, that's okay; newbie game and all), Shapelog's posting was very spontaneous and "error-prone" in the right way. As Onegu put it, "talking about someone's meta before they even post" is in fact a poor use of a townie's time, because you don't need to call attention to the idea that you have a way to read somebody based on meta. Just make the read in either direction when the trigger behavior you're waiting on manifests itself (or doesn't manifest itself when it should). But a post like that is never going to come from mafia. Mafia players don't think to themselves: "You know, I should post that I have a meta read on kush before he says anything. That will make me look more townie and advance my agenda." Because it doesn't. It's empty words. An excited townie, however, who is trying to get discussion started and generate meaningful data for themselves and other players to read, might be overeager and start talking about this tell before it manifests, because it's meaningful to them (even if it doesn't do anything yet). And if you read the rest of Shapelog's posts, eagerness and excitement are pretty reasonable descriptors of his emotional state as he plays. So we can either assume that Shapelog is a bad noob scum player, who also doesn't have anybody on his team to tell him that his early posting isn't doing anything to help, and who also doesn't have a scum coach telling him the same thing... or we can just assume that he is an eager townie, as his posts read. The bolded section, the main reason for townreading, makes no sense. It's basically, "It doesn't make him look like town, and scum wants to look like town, so he must not be scum." I'd appreciate if you'd explain that point to me. Next, about the other consistently active players: darthfoley, _MexicanAlien, and Trfel Onegu, regardless of whether he's scum, made a good point on Trfel. Trfel's been asking so many questions but hasn't said much of anything himself. That reads scum to me, because it allows him to advance mafia's agenda without doing anything himself, if that makes sense. Anything I say on darthfoley will be a weak point. He hasn't done much of anything this game to give me a strong opinion on him, so I'm going to call this one a null read. MexicanAlien looks like a complete townread if you ignore his first ten posts. He started the game off with things like, "We need to figure out a strategy" and "We need information", which would be a sure scumread if he weren't a complete newbie or if he continued like that. Those first few posts set off alarm bells in my head, but I think I was wrong on that one, because he's been a normal contributing member of the town since then. And everyone else I have nothing to say about Kuramari and Ikidomari because of how little they've posted and how little they've said. Opinions pending. JesusIncarnate is weird to me because he was away for the first 15 hours of the game then came back and said half good points and half "sick meme". I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but it's definitely suspicious in my mind if he doesn't do anything more for the next several hours. Eden and Alur read town for me, because they seem to be the ones with the most desire to hunt scum in the town. Alur went quiet for a while, but my opinion on him hasn't changed yet. Eden is the more town-leaning of the two. Nooniansoong (kush?) is a sliiiight scum read for me because he's gotten by doing very little so far. There's definitely not enough, though, there to base a lynch off of. TL;DR I was gone for a while and now I'm trying to catch up. Shapelog still reads scum to me, Onegu and Trfel also look scum to me, Eden, Alur, MexicanAlien look town. I need to read through this again and see what everyone else did because it's sort of lame having null / very weak reads on 6/12 other players. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 28 2016 02:18 darthfoley wrote: Going to post a few reads. I can get into them specifically if someone is interested Town: Eden Shapelog MexicanAlien Scum/scum lean: Alur - refer back to my filter interactions with him. I'm not a fan of his playstyle at all so far. Tumblewood - his second meaningful post is a bunch of null reads, and a bunch of reads that scream "i'm just trying to look like i'm contributing" JesusIncarnate - first meanginful post was lazy and very shallow Need to reread filters on Peppermint, Trfel and Onegu until just now, when you changed to liking him. On January 28 2016 02:36 darthfoley wrote: I'm also liking Alur's pressure on Trfel When did that change? | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 28 2016 03:18 _MexicanAlien wrote: Could everyone, please, in their next post, even if they have done it already, simply state your top three mafia suspects? Only if you are willing. I just want motives to be clearer. Top three suspects in order. If you want to include reasoning feel free. Thank you 1. Shapelog 2. Trfel 3. Onegu I need to log off for now, see you all in a couple hours. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 28 2016 05:59 PepperMintTea wrote: @Tumblewood I'm having a hard time following this train of thought Trefl leans town and onegu is null then So now trefl is neutral but Onegu is likely town and then Onegu and Trefl are both scum. I guess I have the hardest time understanding how you came to the conclusion about onegu. You thought he was towny early on based on the above. Then he made a good case about trefl. Yet despite that you have him as scum..alongside trefl. From my perspective, you have people who you read town for doing less towny things , than onegu has done yet you scumread him. it seems strange. It doesn't make sense to make a read on early D1 and then never change it. As information has come out, I've been getting more and more of a feel on people. By the first little tier post, Trfel had done nothing scummy and neither had Onegu. They even looked a little town for helping to get things started. Darthfoley and MexicanAlien appeared scummy to me for the first few pages, but their play has been solid since. The big turning point for me was when Onegu posted that giant stream-of-consciousness post. That was the only big thing he'd posted all game, and most of it lacked his own opinions. The only part where he said anything definitive himself was his read on Trfel (which I agree with, hence Trfel leaning scum in my mind). Onegu and Trfel both look like classic examples of players who are very active but not saying much. Onegu was also really confrontational toward accusations, which seemed odd to me. Could you explain to me what you find town about Onegu's play? | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 28 2016 06:26 PepperMintTea wrote: I think it would help me out more if you could go into some more detail about your town reads and how you established them. I'm still figuring out Onegu, pending his answer. My main townreads are Eden1892 and Alur, with a side of darthfoley. I townread Alur for being the most motivated to find scum. The first post I really liked was this: On January 27 2016 10:01 Alur wrote: Firstly #2 states: "The mafia will be informed as to which setup is chosen, but the town will not!" So yes, the mafia does know the setup. MexicanAlien posted: To me, this post suggests that MexicanAlien was not aware of the fact that mafia knows the setup. If he was mafia, he would know that mafia knew the setup. I think, it's WIFOM because it could be a gambit to make himself seem town. Regarding being casual: Not necessarily scummy, especially early on day 1. But when I look through his filter he seems too content on just making casual conversation (for my taste), but it's only as strong as any day 1 read can be, which is a caveat that I don't feel the need to post with my every read. I was also hoping for him to defend himself. Regarding the pattern: I don't think he explained it. He talks about a bunch of stuff after #235, but I can't tell if the observations he makes are different/unrelated to the pattern he claims to have seen in #235. After my initial post, I saw this: On January 27 2016 23:26 Alur wrote: One thing before I go afk. I disagree with people townreading Kuragari, if you look at his filter (which is short, so this is easy to verify), notice how his posts are based on reading into if people have referenced their alignment. Which is not terrible in and of itself, but it was something that Tumblewood introduced originally. It seems improbable, that a town player who reads up on the entire thread, ends up not really giving any meaningful original reads or opinions, and just piggybacks on Tumblewoods "allignment refence" tool. On that note, I'll be back this evening. which reaffirms Alur as town. He's the only one I see in this game making a concerted effort to find scum, besides my other two townreads. I'll be gone for about an hour, stay tuned for my explanation on Eden and darthfoley as town. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 28 2016 08:07 Trfel wrote: EBWOP: Why is Eden1892 scum? I don't care about why I'm town. Also, I really do think that Tumblewood is town, but I would really appreciate him answering my question, since I could be wrong. I'm going to assume you meant this question: On January 28 2016 06:26 Trfel wrote: Tumblewood, can you share why you are scumreading Shapelog at this point, please? I don't believe you've mentioned this in a while, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm scumreading Shapelog because he's acted exactly how I would expect a newbie mafia player to act. First, he made direct, offhand allusions to his alignment ("Unless your scum team kills me") that were worded in a way that is very unnatural for a comment like that. More recently, he posted a comment that I found to be odd. On January 27 2016 16:34 Shapelog wrote: Like sure his above posts are good. But they are 2 posts. And one of them is about set up (which thank you btw Eden for taking the time to explain) I don't think that warrants a strong TR. Idk you have played with Eden b/4. But to me it sounds like your trying to buddy/pocket him. Shapelog is just throwing an accusation out (trying to buddy) without much support at all. You can have a town read with few posts, and saying someone's trying to buddy in that situation is really off-putting. He also said many times that he wanted to filter dive certain people or that he wanted to revisit my case on him and never followed up. On January 27 2016 17:04 Shapelog wrote: Eh i let you guys duel. It is 3 am. I am done. For shapelog in da future: Catch up Filter Drive: Onegu Deathfy Kush TW - I want to vist that scum case on me again. Low active people. It seems like he wants to act like he's suspicious of people without actually caring about the cases for or against them. It's been a little separated / disorganized, but he's said a lot of scummy things that people are overlooking. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
Darthfoley: I originally scumread him for reasons similar to Shapelog early on, but as the game progressed his play got stronger / more town-like, unlike Shapelog's. He seems very willing to consider the opposite perspective on things. (example) He's less focused on promoting an agenda and more on finding scum; I suppose I could say I find his reads more organic, and he's responding instead of leading. (exam ples) Eden His first real post felt very solidly townie to me. The reasoning is in-depth, and it seems like he started with the facts and drew from that conclusions (ex: "So we can either assume that Shapelog is a bad noob scum player, who also doesn't have anybody on his team to tell him that his early posting isn't doing anything to help, and who also doesn't have a scum coach telling him the same thing... or we can just assume that he is an eager townie, as his posts read." instead of "So we can assume that Shapelog is an eager townie."). He's also trying to work with his suspects instead of calling them scum right out. (example) Both of those feel very townie and not agenda-motivated. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
I agree for the most part on your other reads, but I'm not quite following what you said on Trfel; it seems like you're saying he both jumped on and started the lynch bandwagon. Could you clarify? ##Vote JesusIncarnate unless I see something that convinces me he's town. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 28 2016 14:51 darthfoley wrote: Tumble I'd like to know if these are still your scum reads? If they've changed, I want to know why. Also, you have both Trfel and Onegu in your scum pile. They've been pretty accusatory against each other; same question I posed to Aussie friend: do you believe they could be on the same team? If one flips scum, does it change your opinion on the other? My reads on Onegu and Trfel haven't changed, but you can add JesusIncarnate and Ikidomari to that list. JesusIncarnate is scummy IMO for being inactive and unhelpful. Ikidomari... I would have probably townread, but Eden has scumreading powers I am not yet blessed with, and I can't help but agree with her. On the subject of Onegu and Trfel, I think it would still make sense if they were scum together, but it's getting hard to picture Onegu as scum now (even without him saying anything) when there are four players I believe are acting scummier. This is a weird game. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
Q: What don't you like about Onegu's big post? A: It was a huge post that would appear to be helping, but most of it was just "I'd sheep kush on that" and "Bad newbie, bad," so it was a huge nothing post. Q: You said Onegu was scummy but then said he wasn't. A: He's just as scummy, but there are four people I see as scummier, so I would suspect Onegu less anyway. Q: Why did you add JesusIncarnate and Ikidomari to your scum list when town did? A: Because I am an easily convinced man. For real, Ikidomari had only just posted, and JesusIncarnate I'd half forgotten about and half expected to post. If he doesn't post before EOD I think he's the scummiest. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
I'm finally back after voting this morning, here are my thoughts as I skim through the thread: Why are we seeing kush post reads with zero explanation and then saying, "Yeah, that's townie right there, looks good." Are they just weather vane posts? My gut says townie (especially since the other posts are solid), but I'm a little confused by these reads, since they're just a list of people. On January 29 2016 04:04 Shapelog wrote: Me? Because he had so many escape paths, Practically had a "Poor me, I fucked up and i should die" attitude And Gave up instead of really trying to explain reads or push his scum reads. (Though, as a newbie, he might overprotect himself because he is being scum read as town. I did it my first game, but i was blue) Agree on all fronts, I don't know why we got so big on Ikidomari and then got cold feet so quickly. I'm seeing scum in the "I'm sorry can you please get me another chance" attitude, but also a lot of plain newbie. Townread on MexicanAlien for sticking with the vote on me even as the Kuragari wagon picks up speed. Strong townread on darthfoley for calling out people on their reads that don't make sense. Why are Kura's scumreads all "slight" or "lean"? Kura, stop, you're backing yourself into a corner with "I'm a null." You're practically begging to be lynched at this point. "I'm actually starting to get cold feet..." Why? "Meh, maybe I'm not." Not sure if this is scummy or NAI. I'm thinking NAI, but that's still weirdly unreasoned. Aaaand a mislynch. Not sure what to look for yet in VCA (am I using that right?) except that I'm not suspicious of the early voters (Alur, darth, kush... not that I was in the first place). Trfel, what's with these reads without reasons? On January 29 2016 07:00 nooniansoong wrote: I like how jesus promised to do stuff and never did. Seriously, where is Jesus this game. If he doesn't show up in the next eight hours, I don't think there's any way around lynching him. Someone can't just stay quiet, be unhelpful when they speak, and not be scummy for it. Unless we wait for a modkill? + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2016 08:12 Alur wrote: VCA is hard. How could you do yours so fast Darth. If we assume mafia helped push the wagon, it would've happened at a point where it wasn't obvious that the lynch would go through, so were talking the first 4 ish votes. Which would be me, Darth, PMT and Trfel. Trfel coming in as the fourth looks pretty suspicious, considering I was leaning towards him being scum. But then theres this, thing (this is how Trfel acts on the Kura vote) Followed by: There is no mafia motivation for saying the bolded part, but when you just "jk" it, it could appear like he's just trying to gain some sort of deniability, especially when combined with the "I think I'm getting cold feet". But PMT and Darth (who could potentially be pocketing me) aren't clear of suspicion either. I just don't have much to hinge that suspicion on currently. Also I'm not sure I understand Edens motivation for joining the wagon last minute. He didn't actually need to vote for it to happen. It seems like it could be a ploy to gain some towncred, because mafia don't need to touch the wagon anymore at that point. He also tried to discredit Kuragari's reads (who scumread him). I think noon actually looks kind of spooky now, in the world where he has too much information his play makes a lot of sense. He was quick to disagree with it being a scumslip (which he was right on), he made a big point of forcing Kuragari to claim (which looks towny, but it's sort of an obvious move). All while his vote was parked on a player (albeit a reasonable lynchtarget) who is one of the biggest lynchbaits. Without really pushing that specific lynch. I think I kind of like mexican for sticking with his lynch. He presented which players he would be able to lynch, and didn't back down on his reads to join the Kura bandwagon. This also coincides with the fact that he's a townread of mine. Some of this might be tinfoily, but that's because there aren't any conclusions that are staring me in the face. Strong townread for Alur on this. He's actively scumhunting, and his points are strong. + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2016 08:41 darthfoley wrote: Kuragari Wagon History Alur #573 - 1st vote Kura darthfoley #574 - 2nd vote Kura; reasoning explained PMT #761 - 3rd vote Kura -immediately unvote PMT #762 - vote Onegu (Onegu only had 1 other vote at this time, from Shapelog I believe) PMT #868 hops back on Kura train - still 3rd vote - no explanation Trfefl #869 - 4th Kura vote -Previous post claims that Kura lynch is stupid -Defending Ikido from wagon -Switches off Tumblewood -No reasoning given VC AT TIME OF PMT/Trfel Votes 4 Kuragari (Alur, darthfoley, PMT, Trfel) 3 JesusIncarnate (Noon, Tumblewood, Ikidomari) 1 Tumblewood (MexicanAlien) 1 Ikidomari (Eden) Not voted: Shapelog, Kuragari, Onegu, Jesus Shapelog #871 - vote Ikido (now 4 Kura, 3 Jesus, 2 Ikido, 1 Tumblewood) Shapelog #872 - unvote Ikido (4 Kura, 3 Jesus, 1 Tumble, 1 Ikido) Shapelog #878 - vote Ikido, "going with gut" (4 Kura, 3 Jesus, 2 Ikido, 1 Tumblewood) Shapelog #894 - vote Kura (5 Kura, 3 Jesus, 1 Ikido, 1 Tumblewood) -Gut feeling = Ikido -Later blames going with gut on Kura vote Kuragari #935 - vote Tumblewood (5 Kura, 3 Jesus, 2 Tumblewood, 1 Ikido) Eden #958 - vote Kura (6 Kura, 3 Jesus, 2 Tumblewood, 1 Ikido) How many times did people vote? Shapelog: 4 (PMT, Onegu, Ikido, Kura) Eden: 4 (Onegu, Trfel, Ikido x2, Kura) darthfoley: 3 (Tumblewood, Jesus, Kura) Trfel: 3 (Onegu, Tumblewood, Kura) PMT: 2 (Onegu, Kura) Alur: 1 (Kuragari) This VCA is not a masterpiece, but I think it clearly throws suspicion on two people specifically: Trfel and Shapelog. Trfel #866: Trfel #869: Notice that he votes literally the post after PMT comes back to the Kuragari wagon, making it 4-3 Kura > Jesus, without giving any explanation why. Also don't like posts that start like this: Similarly, Shapelog has been on every wagon in existence: Onegu, Jesus, Ikido, and Kuragari. Gets his gut feeling mixed up (first says his gut is Ikido, later complains how his gut told him to vote Kura). There is something off about this post. I would've been okay with it perhaps early D1, but this whole "i'm so torn thing!" comes off as fake to me, especially because he only cites other people's reasons... and hasn't made one good case all game. To me, votes #4 and #5 are the votes that should be analyzed, because at 5-3 Kura > Jesus, no one was going to counter push Jesus. ESPECIALLY with Kuragari voting Tumblewood. Eden voting to make it 6-3 is NAI or maybe even slightly town, because that was the only wagon with momentum at that point. If he had hopped on and Kura had been mafia, it's a different story. In conclusion, i'm scum reading both Shapelog and Trfel I like this VCA. I agree on Shapelog and Trfel being scummy (not because of the wagoning, but it certainly puts them farther up my list), and this post voices it better than I can. Darth, Alur, and MexicanAlien are definitely on my town list right now. I like MexicanAlien's read on Trfel, but he also had a similarly confident read on PepperMintTea, who is not a suspect of mine. I think my judgment is clouded by my perception of Trfel as scummy already, but his voting / reads / questions are really odd to me. I am not going to trust kush's reads until there is a justification for them. On January 29 2016 11:19 Trfel wrote: Onegu is mafia because:
You the first half of your filter is all random questions. I don't see much desire from you to advance the game, either. [you meaning Trfel] On January 29 2016 11:52 Shapelog wrote: Things to do tomorrow that i prob. won't end up doing: Close read Tumble filter, Look at Eden (like someone said we let him be lazy) Investagte trofl scum Post reasons why i think Ikido is mafia (or town if by a miracle he convinces me) "Hey, guys, this is what I say, but I'm going to give myself a wide open backdoor of just saying I'm not going to do it." My top townreads right now are Alur, darthfoley, and MexicanAlien. Kush and Eden as town leans. My top scumreads right now are JesusIncarnate, Shapelog, and Trfel. Ikidomari and Onegu as scum leans. I'm not sure on PepperMintTea. I'll be back after a filter dive. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 28 2016 23:31 PepperMintTea wrote: Decided I don't want to lynch ikodomari or trefl Leaves me Onegu, Tumblewood, JesusIncarnate or Kuragari Onegu has really done nothing since Eden made his case, just confirmed what he was talking about with Shapelog and then replied weakly to my question. I'm not sure I could gather the votes to get this through JesusIncarnate and Kuragari just haven't engaged the game at all. Tumblewood has engaged a little bit but I he has questions outstanding he needs to answer This is from a while ago, so only half-relevant now, but I don't see the reasoning for backing out of Onegu and Ikidomari. Would like an answer from PMT. Not that I've been any better, but I can't say much about PMT's EOD behavior because there's not very much of it. Apologies for the eyesore that is my previous post. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 30 2016 08:00 Shapelog wrote: So if he knew/guess/predicted that darth was bread crumbing....... Would he, as scum, not rb/nk darth? I mean maybe he got talked out of it but idk. it is weird that he saw it as a bread crumb in the first place, but it is even weirder that it turned out true AND darth has been unscaved. idk tbh what to think about it I didn't predict that darth was breadcrumbing, it was just my best explanation for a really off-putting post. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 30 2016 09:23 Trfel wrote: If I'm being scumread because I didn't explain my vote on Kuragari42: Why would I explain my vote? I voted for the leading wagon who was gaining momentum. Convincing anyone was not needed. The only reason I'd need to explain my vote is for myself, and I already knew why I was voting. Explaining my vote doesn't accomplish anything. If I'm being scumread because of asking questions: Okay, imagine that all the questions don't exist. Questions are generally non alignment indicative (of course, this depends on the circumstances, for example directly pointed questions can often be more indicative). Ignoring that, I've been sharing analysis, pushing reads, and engaging with people to solve the game. Discounting my play as asking questions in an attempt to appear busy while not actually doing anything is extremely false. If I'm being scumread because of missing one of nooniansoong's posts: That's just stupid. I explained why above. Now I suggest lynching Tumblewood, because he is mafia. Allow me to take his latest post here to show why he is mafia. I won't quote things because that would be annoying. First, like I already said, it doesn't make sense for him to townread _MexicanAlien for voting for himself (Tumblewood) instead of flipped town Kuragari42. A vote on town is a vote on town, lynching one is not better than lynching the other.... unless one of them isn't actually town. This read only makes sense if Tumblewood is mafia. He criticizes Kuragari42's reads and then says that Kuragari42 is begging to get lynched, and seems disappointed. After the flip has already happened. Town doesn't think like this. He says several times that both I (Trfel) and nooniansoong haven't explained some or all of our reads. He says that I am mafia because of this, and he says that he won't trust nooniansoong's reads until there is an explanation, implying that nooniansoong is town. He lists JesusIncarnate, Shapelog, Trfel, Ikidomari, and Onegu as his scum reads. Way to cover all the bases there. Still no involvement or direction, and no original thought at all. Tumblewood is mafia. The basis for the read isn't whether MexicanAlien was correct. MexicanAlien, at the time of voting knew the roles of no one but himself. You read based not on the decision, but on the decision-making. He's tunneling a little, but he's sure as hell not playing opportunistically with that vote. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 30 2016 07:17 Eden1892 wrote: Skimmed kush's filter super fast. Incriminated by this claim are the following players: JesusIncarnate Tumblewood Ikidomari Especially Jesus, as kush had a quality want to lynch Jesus all game, but Tumblewood and Ikidomari were both in his lists from braglists 1.1 onward. Think it's gotta be Jesus or Tumblewood. I also just don't think kush is mafia, fakeclaiming rb'd doesn't do anything. Kush is town, therefore kush's scumreads are correct? Kush doesn't know who mafia is any more than anyone else (except, of course, the mafia). | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 30 2016 05:12 Eden1892 wrote: Yeah fuck Onegu he's scum. Being an ass to people telling them to stop doing things, terribad reads and suspects, inactive and not doing anything even before IRL issues arose to explain that away. This also means Trfel is town, which is fine, because I was starting to get some cognitive dissonance feels reading Trfel's most recent posts. This picture makes a lot more sense. This case is actually just, "fuck Onegu he's scum." Eden has put herself against Onegu without actually making a case. Townies do not have a motive to do that. Bonus: Onegu's "case" against Eden: The vibe I get from this is that Eden and Onegu are distancing themselves from each other. Most of my knowledge of forum mafia is just looking through the Mafiascum wiki, is distancing a scum read here? Because it's sure as hell not a town read. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
If Onegu had flipped scum, I would have immediately seen Eden as a scumbuddy distancing. Since Onegu is VT, though, the reasoning behind this is more complex. I don't think that this is enough for Eden to immediately become scum in my book, especially since I had a town read earlier, but these baseless accusations say to me one of 3 things: 1. That Eden is trying to start a wagon on Onegu. That wouldn't make sense, since it was night, and if Eden cared she would form a well-reasoned argument instead. 2. That Eden was OMGUS-ing Onegu. There's no town or scum motive I can think of for this, so probably not. 3. That Eden wanted to provoke a response from Onegu. The purpose of that response is to create grounds for a case against Onegu, since Eden wanted to lynch Onegu the next day. The underlined case is the conclusion I draw from this. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 30 2016 15:24 Trfel wrote: The point from this game is that you should do what's fun. If something stops being fun, don't keep doing it because it "should" be. Just do things that are worthwhile. Tumblewood is mafia, and always has been, but whatever. Go on not caring about it. Gee, and you call me uninvolved... | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 31 2016 09:10 nooniansoong wrote: @Eden nuance is a town indicator I put a lot of faith in. can you point to a specific example of nuance in trfel's posting? anyone can answer that not just eden. Looking through his filter, he's speaking in absolutes a lot. A large portion of his posts are also questions. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 31 2016 13:38 nooniansoong wrote: noo darth stay strong on the trfel wagon. As soon as I saw this post I middle-clicked the quote button... Not sure what I see in it just yet, but I'm quoting it. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
1. Noon is town, thinks that Trfel is still scum, and wants more support to get him lynched. 2. Noon is scum and wants to draw support for a mislynch. 3. Noon wants to ally darth. (unlikely) 4. Noon didn't make that in a serious light. (likely) Results prove inconclusive, but that post is still really weird to me. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 31 2016 14:50 _MexicanAlien wrote: I find it suspicious how eden and trfel somehow decide for obscure reasons that lynching each other is not going to work or they just town read. They seem to be supporting each other in spam. I think Mafia is: Tfrel Eden1892 Mafia lean: Ikidomari Jesusincarnate Town lean: darthfoley PepperMintTea Town: Shape log Null: nooniansoong You forgot someone | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On February 01 2016 03:47 Trfel wrote: Uh, please explain why you aren't voting for the other people? Because I believe Shapelog is mafia | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On February 01 2016 04:41 Trfel wrote: Okay, so not everyone thinks that Shapelog is town, fine. I was wrong. But you're the only one convinced that he is mafia. Do you find this strange? I'm confused that everyone else is townreading him, yeah. (especially... was it MexicanAlien who had him higher than darthfoley for towniness?) Do you? | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
BIG OL' POSTS ohhhh boy Do you ever tunnel so hard that you get to the other side? Because I think I see the light. Shapelog + Show Spoiler + We're starting way too early. + Show Spoiler + On January 27 2016 06:37 Shapelog wrote: Its a dumbtell I guess it is the best way to say it. I mean it doesn't auto make him town if he does do it, it just something I see him do as vt. It's like syrup on a sundae, it's a condiment. Also When I Town/mafia read him I will say what it is. This is a weird way to establish a presence. I can't point to this directly as mafia, but there's something... off about it. + Show Spoiler + On January 27 2016 06:41 Shapelog wrote: I am not trying to read him lol. I am just saying there is something he does and as the day(s) goes on I will look for it, if it is absent, I will comment on it. Unless your scum team kills me, in which case i can just use it later on .I am of the opinion that an out-of-place town slip is a mafia slip in disguise. The second line has no purpose except for that "your scum team". + Show Spoiler + On January 27 2016 07:39 Shapelog wrote: I am just trying to help solve/point into a direction this game b/4 I have to get off at 6 ish. He had made one post tops trying to do that by then, and it was just stating the obvious. Shapelog is also really eager to explain things away, even if his explanation doesn't quite have the support. + Show Spoiler + On January 27 2016 07:05 Shapelog wrote: OH I see why everyone is confused. I joked that Kush was scum while saying that. This explanation doesn't make sense to me. Does it make sense to you? + Show Spoiler + On January 27 2016 16:34 Shapelog wrote: Like sure his above posts are good. But they are 2 posts. And one of them is about set up (which thank you btw Eden for taking the time to explain) I don't think that warrants a strong TR. Idk you have played with Eden b/4. But to me it sounds like your trying to buddy/pocket him. Trying to buddy/pocket him? Do people even do that? + Show Spoiler + On January 28 2016 10:50 Shapelog wrote: Who knows maybe Tumble suffers from what i suffer from which is he reads the thread and at the end feels lost. Nah He tried to explain my actions, and with no evidence, but then he entirely un-committed. + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2016 08:00 Shapelog wrote: So if he knew/guess/predicted that darth was bread crumbing....... Would he, as scum, not rb/nk darth? I mean maybe he got talked out of it but idk. it is weird that he saw it as a bread crumb in the first place, but it is even weirder that it turned out true AND darth has been unscaved. idk tbh what to think about it He didn't even bother to check whether I was right. He made the connection between a comment on breadcrumbing and a blue role, but there's nothing there. There were some things he said and not followed up on... + Show Spoiler + On January 27 2016 06:39 Shapelog wrote: Btw I will log off around 6 pm in my local time and won't get on till 8 am since I won't have a home Cp. till tomorrow. He didn't log off for any significant time until half a day later. + Show Spoiler + On January 27 2016 17:04 Shapelog wrote: Eh i let you guys duel. It is 3 am. I am done. For shapelog in da future: Catch up Filter Drive: Onegu Deathfy Kush TW - I want to vist that scum case on me again. Low active people. He only followed up on one of those filters. ...until I pointed it out. Only after I noticed did he start following up on his promises, which only happens when someone's concerned about being scumread. His reads are also all over the place. + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2016 01:14 Shapelog wrote: Actually that scum slip is ridiculously huge if he is scum and gets lynched. Maybe I am wrong about my Tinfoil Team, Maybe one of Eden/Darth isn't scum and instead Kura is scum. Goes from Eden/Darth to Kura [QUOTE]On January 29 2016 02:26 Shapelog wrote: [QUOTE]On January 29 2016 02:19 darthfoley wrote: [QUOTE]On January 29 2016 02:12 Shapelog wrote: Because I feel for him. Granted I was lost in my first forum mafia game as scum, but I can definitely see why a first time town wouldn't be too sure of any of this reads, and wouldn't want to offend/piss other town off. Basically, read what Trfel posted because it sums up some of my current feelings towards Ikido + Show Spoiler + I'm not townreading him very strongly, but it's a slight read still. Ikidomari has been very open about feeling behind and not skilled enough. To me, this feels towny. In general, when mafia isn't skilled enough, they don't try and just give up. Ikidomari's play hasn't shown this at all. Instead, he feels relaxed and natural. His posts have felt free-flowing, and I don't think that the inconsistencies disrupt the flow of his reads from a town perspective. I realize that this is very subjective. I also feel that he's raised a few decent points that aren't so obvious. This is also subjective, though. In general, I don't like to lynch people because I don't have a good reason to townread them; if I can't show that they are scum, I don't want to lynch them. And I personally don't feel like I can show that Ikidomari is scum right now. I think you can interpret him either way; if for example, it is Ikidomari vs. one of my TRs near EoD, I would likely vote for Ikido, but he isn't one of my primary suspects currently[/QUOTE] Hmmm, ok i can understand where you are coming from. In my opinion he has given up a bit with his last few posts, which goes against trofl town read. Then again I would expect a mafia, regardless of any type of experience level, to be aware what they are being town/scum read for. Idk you might of just bought Ikido a extra day. Let me dwindle on it.[/QUOTE] On Ikido, goes from scum to town to scum again to "let me consider it". [QUOTE]On January 29 2016 03:46 Shapelog wrote: God dammit I am so Torn right now. If only I could vote two people... I am half tempting to try to find a loophole to where i can vote both my top scum reads for todays lynch. But considering how i like the Shining (CoHost) and Prince Lonemeow (host) I will not. I think I going to vote with my gut and ##Vote: Ikidomari Though IMO both him and Kuga are up for it. Also Jesus considering the points made against him.[/QUOTE] Gave himself backdoors to vote any of three different people, now including Jesus but only after others had read him significantly. He voted Ikidomari then Kuragari, said (and I quote) "Ikido is mafia", called me "opportunistic scum", and votes Jesus out of the blue (citing kush's post as reasoning)... he had the single most votes of anybody that day, and he's still going with PMT/Trfel/me/Jesus as his scum reads (Eden, too, before she was killed). | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Kush's posts have been very concise and to the point. There's very little nuance, which is, as kush says, a town tell. He doesn't care how he looks, and makes clear and solid points. + Show Spoiler + On January 28 2016 03:17 nooniansoong wrote: Yes, but he's doing it in a conspicuous but delibrate way. Almost like he is using this point the game to gather as much info as possible, and before EoD he will synthesize all that information into reads. If Trfel were scum, he would think to himself "I shouldn't be asking so many questions because that looks scummy." + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2016 01:52 nooniansoong wrote: scumlist for brags 3. JesusIncarnate 4. Alur 10. Onegu 13. Shapelog No intelligent mafia makes a scumlist and then just doesn't explain it, especially when not on everyone's townlists. He does not promote a mafia agenda with his posting. + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2016 04:25 nooniansoong wrote: KURA, PLEASE CLAIM YOUR ROLE. YOU ARE GOING TO GET LYNCHED. Kura was town. If kush were mafia, he would have known that and wanted Kura dead. Kush is making an effort to keep Kura from being mislynched without doing anything for town cred. Mafia would just leave Kura to die. + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2016 08:33 nooniansoong wrote: jesus will probably get replaced. If Jesus is town, mafia would try to get Jesus mislynched to waste a day. If Jesus is mafia, mafia would try to keep the discussion away from him. He doesn't talk much except in response to something else. [Not sure if this is a town tell or a scum tell] I'm tired of quoting things so no quotes here. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + There is no reason behind his voting and reads. + Show Spoiler + On January 28 2016 23:31 PepperMintTea wrote: Decided I don't want to lynch ikodomari or trefl Leaves me Onegu, Tumblewood, JesusIncarnate or Kuragari Onegu has really done nothing since Eden made his case, just confirmed what he was talking about with Shapelog and then replied weakly to my question. I'm not sure I could gather the votes to get this through JesusIncarnate and Kuragari just haven't engaged the game at all. Tumblewood has engaged a little bit but I he has questions outstanding he needs to answer There is no reason given for shying from Ikidomari or Trfel. (Ikidomari flipped mafia, Trfel, Jesus and I have not flipped, and Kura and Onegu are town) If PMT is mafia, I suspect Trfel as the last member. + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2016 04:06 PepperMintTea wrote: Kura or tumblewood, decided not to lynch Jesus let's get it down to two. Why? On January 30 2016 20:04 PepperMintTea wrote: ##Vote JesusIncarnate Why? PMT has also just ignored scum cases against him. [This could go either way] + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
BIG OL' POSTS We're starting with someone really easy to do so I don't have to sift through many posts. scott31337 + Show Spoiler + I'm not going to read heavily on JesusIncarnate being AFK, because the AFKness doesn't seem to be a scum tactic as much as just being gone, because his replacement is getting back on the activity. Not that he had any other option. + Show Spoiler + On February 03 2016 08:58 scott31337 wrote: You, because it requires an act of congress to get any information out of you, which is a scummy trait - and a few other things - you have a big filter, but unlike a few of the others, there's not a whole lot of substance. #2 would be Tumblewood - How you hard defend him so much - I kind of liked Trfel's case on him as well - and his hard townread on you with his notes here- + Show Spoiler [Tumblewood's magic townread on K…] + On February 02 2016 14:56 Tumblewood wrote: nooniansoong + Show Spoiler + Kush's posts have been very concise and to the point. There's very little nuance, which is, as kush says, a town tell. He doesn't care how he looks, and makes clear and solid points. + Show Spoiler + On January 28 2016 03:17 nooniansoong wrote: Yes, but he's doing it in a conspicuous but delibrate way. Almost like he is using this point the game to gather as much info as possible, and before EoD he will synthesize all that information into reads. If Trfel were scum, he would think to himself "I shouldn't be asking so many questions because that looks scummy." + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2016 01:52 nooniansoong wrote: scumlist for brags 3. JesusIncarnate 4. Alur 10. Onegu 13. Shapelog No intelligent mafia makes a scumlist and then just doesn't explain it, especially when not on everyone's townlists. He does not promote a mafia agenda with his posting. + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2016 04:25 nooniansoong wrote: KURA, PLEASE CLAIM YOUR ROLE. YOU ARE GOING TO GET LYNCHED. Kura was town. If kush were mafia, he would have known that and wanted Kura dead. Kush is making an effort to keep Kura from being mislynched without doing anything for town cred. Mafia would just leave Kura to die. + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2016 08:33 nooniansoong wrote: jesus will probably get replaced. If Jesus is town, mafia would try to get Jesus mislynched to waste a day. If Jesus is mafia, mafia would try to keep the discussion away from him. He doesn't talk much except in response to something else. [Not sure if this is a town tell or a scum tell] I'm tired of quoting things so no quotes here. I really think you two are the last mafia, with a little tinfoil on Trfel and PepperMintTea. My order right now would be DarthFoley _MexicanAlien Shapelog Trfel PepperMintTea Nooniansong Tumblewood Other peeps - do you think Trfel and PMT bussed yesterday? Do I need to re-read the whole day, or what do you think? From what I have so far, I'm extremely doubtful that Trfel did. Although from scott's viewpoint this might be honest, I don't see why nooniansoong is his strongest scumread, since he's (as I've detailed) one of the most towny players in the game. Scott has very little to go off of, and it's all concerned me and kush (and a liiiittle of Trfel). Jesus was pretty scummy too before he left, and it's unlikely that both players are town showing scummy traits. I'd put scott even with PMT in my reads. Trfel + Show Spoiler + Quotes are stupid so I'm just going to write a paragraph instead. I think Trfel is town. Kush pointed out somewhere that, if Trfel were scum, he wouldn't ask so many questions because he knows it looks bad. And I think that's true: At the start of the game I failed to consider that Trfel's actions don't make sense from a scum point of view. He's ignored how his actions made him look, and the megapost (you know the one) is not something mafia puts that much effort into. I think Trfel is showing a genuine desire to find scum and win the game. @Whoever asked me to claim: I'm VT | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
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