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On January 01 2016 23:52 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2015 04:18 GiygaS wrote:
Just want to say I'm still reading. There's a lot. As of post 443 I'd lynch scott (for basically everyone else's posts on him plus his weird last post, he still hasn't shown up even though he had very good irl reasons to be available), kmatt (his lynch target on me seems like parrotting other players, among other things), and gb in that order How was kmatt parroting? He voted for gb who has no other votes... How is paroting lynch target Scummy? It's called consolidation. In this post you say you would lynch Scott for everyone else's posts. Isn't that parroting lynch targets?
Kmatt may have been first to vote, but all his reasoning was said before by others. He didn't point to those posts though, he presented the insights as his own by adding some random quotes from GB's filter. He did the exact same thing on me too. I still have him as a major scumlean, as this is pretty much his only analysis content. The post where he answered a lot of questions he just summarized the situations. This with his weird reasoning to flip back to GB again despite not liking his scum lean because he's "more dangerous".
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I think night cycle got delayed 24 hours to deal with New Years.
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On January 01 2016 14:18 NocturneMage wrote:
The second question regarding Onegu - since I've never played with him before is that is the whole finding scum thing based on scumreads on you - is this something he does as town, mafia or both alignments?
I've never seen mafia Onegu. Whenever I've played with him as town, he's generally contributed nothing until D3 or D4. By that point, he generally gets pushed by scum. This helps him solve the game, but by that stage his thread pull is usually so shot that townies are happy to move onto him. In this game he has actually posted more than he usually does.
I just want to talk a little bit about this 'scum-slip' before I re-read some other filters. This is the quote again:
Policy
Onegu - Please all think of a world where we get to LYLO or LYLO-1 and Onegu still hasn't said anything, still hasn't been modkilled and still hasn't been lynched. He does this EVERY GAME HE PLAYS. And it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for town to win if it gets that far, because he is a total coin-flip and the easiest ML in the world. His content is totally absent.
I was discussing a policy lynch, wherein you essentially have to disregard your target's alignment and lynch them. If they are scum, great! If they are town, you lynched them because they are so disruptive and/or unhelpful that town is better off anyway. Obviously this is a tool you want to use very judiciously, because mislynches are bad. But my experience of AFK Onegu is that it's better to get it out of the way sooner (and hope he's scum). This wasn't a lynch suggestion based reads. This was a POLICY lynch. I could have spelt it out a bit more fully, where it would have said "[he is] the easiest ML in the world if he is town, and if he's mafia we had no chance to get a read on him." I sort of thought that bit was implied, but w/e.
My issue with Onegu's approach is that he:
1. Joke voted me
2. Found this 'slip', despite having seen me post the same thing before in every game we've played together (and always both been town)
3. Ignored Shape saying basically exactly the same thing
4. Now has a scum read on GB which seems to come from GB trying to meta read Onegu and Onegu saying GB should know better. But he ignored that scott also had a meta read on him (perhaps because scott's meta read was town?).
My issue with this approach is that it is very easy for him, as mafia, to come into the thread and spew the same stuff over and over again about the 'slip'. That is super scummy to me.
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On January 01 2016 23:52 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2015 04:18 GiygaS wrote:
Just want to say I'm still reading. There's a lot. As of post 443 I'd lynch scott (for basically everyone else's posts on him plus his weird last post, he still hasn't shown up even though he had very good irl reasons to be available), kmatt (his lynch target on me seems like parrotting other players, among other things), and gb in that order How was kmatt parroting? He voted for gb who has no other votes... How is paroting lynch target Scummy? It's called consolidation. In this post you say you would lynch Scott for everyone else's posts. Isn't that parroting lynch targets?
Also you directly contradict yourself in this post. You can't call it consolidation if he's the first one to vote for that person.
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On January 02 2016 02:30 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2016 23:52 nooniansoong wrote:On December 31 2015 04:18 GiygaS wrote:
Just want to say I'm still reading. There's a lot. As of post 443 I'd lynch scott (for basically everyone else's posts on him plus his weird last post, he still hasn't shown up even though he had very good irl reasons to be available), kmatt (his lynch target on me seems like parrotting other players, among other things), and gb in that order How was kmatt parroting? He voted for gb who has no other votes... How is paroting lynch target Scummy? It's called consolidation. In this post you say you would lynch Scott for everyone else's posts. Isn't that parroting lynch targets? Kmatt may have been first to vote, but all his reasoning was said before by others. He didn't point to those posts though, he presented the insights as his own by adding some random quotes from GB's filter. He did the exact same thing on me too. I still have him as a major scumlean, as this is pretty much his only analysis content. The post where he answered a lot of questions he just summarized the situations. This with his weird reasoning to flip back to GB again despite not liking his scum lean because he's "more dangerous".
Hmm that's a fair point. It's def scummier just to sheep onto someone with no new reasons, but I hadn't thought about the possibility of sheeping onto someone for new reasons. Honestly Kmatt's read and vote progression was pretty all over the place D1. Usually that's something I push really hard. The issue I've had though is that everyone who has played like this has usually been newbie town, rather than scum. When I was scum in SOTW2 I was sort of terrified to change my vote at all. Has Kmatt explained what he meant by 'more dangerous'? I'd like to hear it if he has. Will look at his filter now.
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On January 01 2016 15:02 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2015 23:27 Fidei86 wrote:
Noon/Kush - This whole filter makes me want to facepalm. He TRs Scott for saying he could "possibly jump" on someone else's read. WTF? I just don't understand this read at all - mafia are the ones who are going to hedge and give weak reads, not town. He then goes into a day-long "woe is me, D1 is so hard" stupor, which is (a) totally destructive to town, and (b) effective at hiding his thoughts on the game. Having said that, he then seems to basically mindlessly sheep GB onto his read onto Kmatt. I also don't follow his point about NM and KMatt whiteknighting, since a bunch of other people also came into the thread to say that timestamp analysis wasn't helpful. He then also prods a bunch of people into giving reads, despite the fact that he himself has given almost no content. Can you explain this? (bolded) If you read Noon's filter carefully you will see subsequent pushback.
I think that when I made my post, things hadn't really moved on from his read on Kmatt. I do think up to around that point he was pretty scummy, for the reasons I gave. After that, though, I think his filter has been ... up and down.
I liked alot that he thought over the case against Kmatt, and engaged GB on it quite extensively. It's difficult to see a particularly scummy reason for defending Kmatt -- scum would probably prefer to keep that avenue open (see #404).
I did not like his case on me at all at #513, and a couple of other people posted that it was quite lacking. He actually says specifically at #571 that he didn't vote me for the scum slip, he did it because of his case. But as soon as the day was over, he admitted his case was bad (#633).
Since then he has questioned Onegu on scum slips (#668), and thrown a bunch of shade on people at #696. He admitted in his post that the reads were ehhh, and I agree they were. Still, I think it's townie to start thinking about people others hadn't really been (especially mderg and Irish). I see that an experienced scum would probably start doing that now to set up the board for late game, but for a newer player I think it makes a ton more sense to just be typical townie paranoia.
I also don't like that he aggressively pushed his case on me up until EOD, at which point he dropped it and hasn't really talked about me since. That could be because he realised he was tied to a weak case, and that the easiest thing was just to drop it. At the same time, we now know that scott was town, so it kinda makes more sense for this to be a townie Kush re-evaluating. That especially makes sense because Kush was town-reading scott and so would definitely have wanted me to get lynched, since I was the only other viable wagon.
So, yeah. I think kush is probably town.
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Aaand I have to play Game of Thones with my friends. I should be back in advance of EOD. I'll read Kmatt's filter when I get back.
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On January 02 2016 02:33 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2016 23:52 nooniansoong wrote:On December 31 2015 04:18 GiygaS wrote:
Just want to say I'm still reading. There's a lot. As of post 443 I'd lynch scott (for basically everyone else's posts on him plus his weird last post, he still hasn't shown up even though he had very good irl reasons to be available), kmatt (his lynch target on me seems like parrotting other players, among other things), and gb in that order How was kmatt parroting? He voted for gb who has no other votes... How is paroting lynch target Scummy? It's called consolidation. In this post you say you would lynch Scott for everyone else's posts. Isn't that parroting lynch targets? Also you directly contradict yourself in this post. You can't call it consolidation if he's the first one to vote for that person.
I was saying parroting happens all the time under the guise of consolidation. I wanted to know what you thought was scummy in particular about kmatts parroting.
You and fidei make some good points against kmatt.
1 he presented other peoples reads to make his vote seem townier
2 his reads/votes were all over the place
3 voting gb because he's dangerous Without clarifying what that meant
I'll look at kmatt again later. And you two have gained townpoints in my eyes.
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I kind of just want to lynch Onegu, GB and kush because reading through that scumslip discussion was so annoying.
On January 01 2016 13:33 Shapelog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2015 04:25 Irishbound wrote:On December 31 2015 04:21 GlowingBear wrote:
Kush and fidei are probably town
It should be clear that Kmatt is Mafia right now
So you think Onegu is town? Mderg also? Yes, I've got a town read on Onegus reaction towards Fideis post, it's not a particularly strong one but not even remotely interested in lynching there. I do have a very strong town read on Mderg, his reads and thoughts mirror mine when catching up quite often, I can understand his reasoning behind almost all of his reads, I'd almost bet the entire game on him being town. Want to make an agreement Glowing? We lynch Scott today, if he's mafia like I expect you let me tell you where to put your vote tomorrow, if he flips town you can tell me where to place mine. Page 28. This is either a big ass mafia slip (which btw, mderg copied his scum slip from me! look at the filter its their.) Or one huge town tell
This may be the hangover but I don't quite get the part about me.
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Sorry if I came off as unclear before, I didn't have any time Wednesday morning to explain myself. I'll be on a little bit to provide my full explanations.
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On December 30 2015 23:30 Kmatt wrote:
However I am going to assert that GB is the more dangerous target. Sure, Scott was acting "scummy" by not really participating, but he hasn't really derailed the thread or caused trouble (yet). GB on the other hand is an active poster who has been calling quite a few scumreads (myself included) with virtually no justification, as well as some very empty townreads. The fishy interactions with Noon are enough to seal the deal for me.
More importantly, if we were to lynch Scott, we would learn almost nothing. Even if he came up scum, his posts have been so hollow that we wouldn't have a solid lead to go from there. Unless GB can clean up his act in time, there's a lot more to be gained out of him.
##unvote GiygaS
##vote GlowingBear
Here is where he explains that GB is more dangerous (basically because he posts more).
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I mean yeah the thinking behind that is not sound but a lot of those thoughts are common from newbs
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On January 01 2016 15:07 nooniansoong wrote:
Kinda drunk. not gonna be a very good post but here goes.
scum is in irish gigyas mderg onegu.
I've given varying degrees of townreads to everyone else.
Irish seems like a dude who would make a very townie looking scum. I find the reasoning behind his scumreads/townreads to be unbelievable. I know a statement like that is worthless without backing it up with specifics but that's not happening right now. If he dies, which he very well might if he's town, then that would be work wasted if I post reasons now.
gigyas. all honesty i can't read this guy for shit. He seems scummy to be even when he's town. Dunno but his play seems like it has no creative thought behind it or anything to indicate towniness. No offense gigas I didn't mean that as an insult.
mderg. Always taking the side of you'd think the townie would take: Hard against policy lynches for example. Seems like an upright citizen townie, but his towniness is very surface level.
onegu- really wasn't satisfied with his respond to GB's recent questioning of him. Nothing townie in his filter. Looks like he found something he could call a scumslip then relied on that for a reasoning behind his vote. With no thought to "is it really a scumslip?" "did shape scumslip as well?" etc.
These reads are all pretty shit. I'll verify them and stress them out during d2.
Now that you're probably not drunk anymore can you get into more detail on these reads?
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On January 02 2016 02:57 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2016 15:02 NocturneMage wrote:On December 30 2015 23:27 Fidei86 wrote:
Noon/Kush - This whole filter makes me want to facepalm. He TRs Scott for saying he could "possibly jump" on someone else's read. WTF? I just don't understand this read at all - mafia are the ones who are going to hedge and give weak reads, not town. He then goes into a day-long "woe is me, D1 is so hard" stupor, which is (a) totally destructive to town, and (b) effective at hiding his thoughts on the game. Having said that, he then seems to basically mindlessly sheep GB onto his read onto Kmatt. I also don't follow his point about NM and KMatt whiteknighting, since a bunch of other people also came into the thread to say that timestamp analysis wasn't helpful. He then also prods a bunch of people into giving reads, despite the fact that he himself has given almost no content. Can you explain this? (bolded) If you read Noon's filter carefully you will see subsequent pushback. I think that when I made my post, things hadn't really moved on from his read on Kmatt. I do think up to around that point he was pretty scummy, for the reasons I gave. After that, though, I think his filter has been ... up and down. I liked alot that he thought over the case against Kmatt, and engaged GB on it quite extensively. It's difficult to see a particularly scummy reason for defending Kmatt -- scum would probably prefer to keep that avenue open (see #404).I did not like his case on me at all at #513, and a couple of other people posted that it was quite lacking. He actually says specifically at #571 that he didn't vote me for the scum slip, he did it because of his case. But as soon as the day was over, he admitted his case was bad (#633). Since then he has questioned Onegu on scum slips (#668), and thrown a bunch of shade on people at #696. He admitted in his post that the reads were ehhh, and I agree they were. Still, I think it's townie to start thinking about people others hadn't really been (especially mderg and Irish). I see that an experienced scum would probably start doing that now to set up the board for late game, but for a newer player I think it makes a ton more sense to just be typical townie paranoia. I also don't like that he aggressively pushed his case on me up until EOD, at which point he dropped it and hasn't really talked about me since. That could be because he realised he was tied to a weak case, and that the easiest thing was just to drop it. At the same time, we now know that scott was town, so it kinda makes more sense for this to be a townie Kush re-evaluating. That especially makes sense because Kush was town-reading scott and so would definitely have wanted me to get lynched, since I was the only other viable wagon. So, yeah. I think kush is probably town.
It's pretty easy to see why scum might want to defend Kmatt. Just as it's easy to see why town would defend him.
Based on reading your reasoning I wouldn't think that you're townreading kush.
I also like him much more than at the start, though. Mostly because he actually started thinking about the game and bringing in new thoughts on people. His amount of interaction with GB skyrocketed after I mentioned it btw
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Would like to point out Fword dude never denies it is a slip.
Fword dude confirmed scum
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bis0Kk9CQAAU7Ue.jpg) Day Two
Pepper Brooks: I just talked to White Goodman today, and his team really wants to win this one.
Cotton McKnight: Right you are.
Irishbound the Vanilla Townie has been killed.
You have 48 hours to decide the next lynch.
The cycle ends in on Sunday, Jan 03 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
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I was hoping that would happen 
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On January 02 2016 03:27 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2016 15:07 nooniansoong wrote:
Kinda drunk. not gonna be a very good post but here goes.
scum is in irish gigyas mderg onegu.
I've given varying degrees of townreads to everyone else.
Irish seems like a dude who would make a very townie looking scum. I find the reasoning behind his scumreads/townreads to be unbelievable. I know a statement like that is worthless without backing it up with specifics but that's not happening right now. If he dies, which he very well might if he's town, then that would be work wasted if I post reasons now.
gigyas. all honesty i can't read this guy for shit. He seems scummy to be even when he's town. Dunno but his play seems like it has no creative thought behind it or anything to indicate towniness. No offense gigas I didn't mean that as an insult.
mderg. Always taking the side of you'd think the townie would take: Hard against policy lynches for example. Seems like an upright citizen townie, but his towniness is very surface level.
onegu- really wasn't satisfied with his respond to GB's recent questioning of him. Nothing townie in his filter. Looks like he found something he could call a scumslip then relied on that for a reasoning behind his vote. With no thought to "is it really a scumslip?" "did shape scumslip as well?" etc.
These reads are all pretty shit. I'll verify them and stress them out during d2. Now that you're probably not drunk anymore can you get into more detail on these reads?
well I gotta put some work in before I can clarify,
1 I have a pretty confident townread on Irish at this point lol.
2 Gigyas is leaning town because his thoughts about kmatt make sense to me.
3 Mderg, still have to filter, but just from PoE I'm hoping I find his filter scummy.
4 onegu. nothing there to make me lean townie. Very little actual content.
Anyway looks like someone I towned is actually scum sigh. Not sure who yet.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
TheShining has replaced theCow. Say hi!
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Hello. Bare with me, this is my first time ever replacing. I'll try to catch up on the thread tonight but probably won't be fully caught up until I'm at work tomorrow, which is where I normally play from. Just a word of encouragement to the town newbies not to get discouraged over a D1 mislynch, this is still very winnable. I'll go and analyze EoD once I'm caught up but this is still very winnable.
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EPT
