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On January 03 2016 00:38 GlowingBear wrote:
There's a reason Irish is dead and I'm not. The reason is that he was probably right at least for one of his scum reads.
His scum reads were kush/Giygas/Scott. Scott is dead, I think kush is more likely to be town. So I'm voting Giygas because I simply have no reason to town read him.
That gigantic post from Kmatt probably makes him town. If I had a wrong scum read, it is him. I keep my scumread on mderg and Onegu, tho.
To be fair, I'm pretty confident we hit a Mafia on mderg. But considering the night kill we should probably kill Giygas first.
I don't like this post at all. You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought. You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game. That's not town play.
##vote GB
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Only two points on GB:
1. His early reads were mostly town reads and were short, but that fits in with him being in another game. Kmatt puts a lot of emphasis on that in his case, but it's NAI if anything. In my mind it's more towny than anything as he would find it harder to walk back if he needed for a ML.
2. My experience of playing GB is that he struggles to maintain calm when he plays as scum. In the game we played together, he was much more acerbic and less flexible with his reads. He's different here - note #736 where he re-evaluates on Kmatt.
GB is an experienced player who probably could change up his meta, but I think he's probably town. He's not the lynch today for sure.
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On January 03 2016 00:50 Onegu wrote:
GB not deciding to defend himself just saying it is a town case from kmatt is really telling.
And yes I will be tunneled on to fword dude and GB until they are dead, I am dead or it is lylo then I will reevaluate in lylo. Tunnel for now.
I never care for cases written on me when I'm town, simply because everything is automatically wrong. If Kmatt wishes that I comment anything about it, I will, but I've skipped it by default
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On January 03 2016 00:55 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2016 00:38 GlowingBear wrote:
There's a reason Irish is dead and I'm not. The reason is that he was probably right at least for one of his scum reads.
His scum reads were kush/Giygas/Scott. Scott is dead, I think kush is more likely to be town. So I'm voting Giygas because I simply have no reason to town read him.
That gigantic post from Kmatt probably makes him town. If I had a wrong scum read, it is him. I keep my scumread on mderg and Onegu, tho.
To be fair, I'm pretty confident we hit a Mafia on mderg. But considering the night kill we should probably kill Giygas first. I don't like this post at all. You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought. You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game. That's not town play. ##vote GB
I'm going to go look at Irish's filter now, to check. GB's recap looks right to me, but best to be sure.
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On January 03 2016 00:55 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2016 00:38 GlowingBear wrote:
There's a reason Irish is dead and I'm not. The reason is that he was probably right at least for one of his scum reads.
His scum reads were kush/Giygas/Scott. Scott is dead, I think kush is more likely to be town. So I'm voting Giygas because I simply have no reason to town read him.
That gigantic post from Kmatt probably makes him town. If I had a wrong scum read, it is him. I keep my scumread on mderg and Onegu, tho.
To be fair, I'm pretty confident we hit a Mafia on mderg. But considering the night kill we should probably kill Giygas first. I don't like this post at all. You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought. You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game. That's not town play. ##vote GB
His other reads were town reads dude, why would I take that into consideration when deciding who to lynch now? Rofl
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On January 03 2016 00:58 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2016 00:55 mderg wrote:On January 03 2016 00:38 GlowingBear wrote:
There's a reason Irish is dead and I'm not. The reason is that he was probably right at least for one of his scum reads.
His scum reads were kush/Giygas/Scott. Scott is dead, I think kush is more likely to be town. So I'm voting Giygas because I simply have no reason to town read him.
That gigantic post from Kmatt probably makes him town. If I had a wrong scum read, it is him. I keep my scumread on mderg and Onegu, tho.
To be fair, I'm pretty confident we hit a Mafia on mderg. But considering the night kill we should probably kill Giygas first. I don't like this post at all. You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought. You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game. That's not town play. ##vote GB His other reads were town reads dude, why would I take that into consideration when deciding who to lynch now? Rofl
What you're doing is basically taking a look at a list with his reads and taking the one that's most convenient for you.
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Irish's reads were:
He sets out his reads at #427, which are:
Scott scum
NM town
GB town
Kush scum
mderg town
Kmatt town
Fidei null
Shape town
Gigya scum
Onegu null/town
Not really sure which reads you think GB missed out mderg? Gonna check your filter now for your progression on GB.
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On January 03 2016 01:05 Fidei86 wrote:
Irish's reads were:
He sets out his reads at #427, which are:
Scott scum
NM town
GB town
Kush scum
mderg town
Kmatt town
Fidei null
Shape town
Gigya scum
Onegu null/town
Not really sure which reads you think GB missed out mderg? Gonna check your filter now for your progression on GB.
I'm not saying he missed any reads. He simply picked one out and decides to vote that one. Without giving it any further thought (aside from "kush is probably town")
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Can you explain your read progression on GB? Up until now you've not really interacted with him at all, You say at #709 that you want to lynch GB because of the scumslip discussion, but I assumed that wasn't a serious read. You say at #567 that Scott flipping town would make him look worse, but only because hedefended Scott. Then at #588 you agree with GB's reads. Is your entire scum read really off of GB correctly reciting Irish's reads ???
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My take on GB, going through his filter.
Points that make GB scummy
(1) Engagement with KMatt was poor when he initially scumread him and early on I felt he didn't do anything with his reaction test (or whatever it is) that got any alignment indicative information on Shapelog (the only other person interacting at the time), etc. This I thought was scummy from GB.
(2) This post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/500060-newbie-student-mafia-xviii?page=31#615
Kush voting with Onegu was after Onegu gave one reason for voting Fidei and Kush at that time gave a separate reason for voting Fidei. So I don't think this is unreasonable and it looks like you are taking the situation out of context.
(3) The post on killing GigyaS is bad because D1 nightkills yield little information, like I did in a few of the games I've played you need multiple nights of NK WIFOM analysis or NK WIFOM analysis with something else to more reasonably go after someone.
(4) Stance on mderg. From what I can tell mderg has posted in and out of the thread since GB has made his initial scumread on him and GB seems pretty content to call him mafia without (from what I can tell) any re-evaluation.
(5) Related to (4), hard stance on Onegu in nightphase - he's saying that Onegu cannot possibly believe what he's saying/double standards on him and Shapelog but then he takes a read based on LESS RELIABLE INFORMATION (NK WIFOM from night 1) and wants to lynch GigyaS over what from his perspective should be MORE RELIABLE INFORMATION (Onegu cannot believe what he's possibly saying).
The problem with this is that both GB and Onegu are calling each other mafia, Onegu is straightaway lynching GB, GB isn't lynching Onegu straightaway though, so I'm trying to figure out if this could be the surface of double bussing or what.
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Also the reason that I'm saying that night 1 NK WIFOM is unreliable is because I just came out of a game (Dark Tournament) where the scumteam purposely tried to WIFOM with the nightkills and in other games where NK WIFOM does uncover/indicate correctly mafia, it takes multiple nights of that to really sort out.
GigyaS could be mafia but it's going to take me more than NK wifom from a single night to vote him is what I'm saying. Town should be looking at things that amount to more than WIFOM.
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On January 03 2016 01:11 Fidei86 wrote:
Can you explain your read progression on GB? Up until now you've not really interacted with him at all, You say at #709 that you want to lynch GB because of the scumslip discussion, but I assumed that wasn't a serious read. You say at #567 that Scott flipping town would make him look worse, but only because hedefended Scott. Then at #588 you agree with GB's reads. Is your entire scum read really off of GB correctly reciting Irish's reads ???
I haven't liked his play since the very beginning of this game. The instant townread on Irish for nothing. In general I got the feeling he's giving out reads with little to no reasoning behind them. The lack of interaction with kush D1 (admittedly that's not a very strong reason to scumread him). His crazy defense of scott and now his use of Irish's death.
Well, that's pretty much just a list of things I didn't like about his play but I commented on most if not all of these, so I think one should be able to see how I came to this read.
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On January 03 2016 01:19 NocturneMage wrote:My take on GB, going through his filter. Points that make GB scummy (1) Engagement with KMatt was poor when he initially scumread him and early on I felt he didn't do anything with his reaction test (or whatever it is) that got any alignment indicative information on Shapelog (the only other person interacting at the time), etc. This I thought was scummy from GB. (2) This post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/500060-newbie-student-mafia-xviii?page=31#615Kush voting with Onegu was after Onegu gave one reason for voting Fidei and Kush at that time gave a separate reason for voting Fidei. So I don't think this is unreasonable and it looks like you are taking the situation out of context. (3) The post on killing GigyaS is bad because D1 nightkills yield little information, like I did in a few of the games I've played you need multiple nights of NK WIFOM analysis or NK WIFOM analysis with something else to more reasonably go after someone. (4) Stance on mderg. From what I can tell mderg has posted in and out of the thread since GB has made his initial scumread on him and GB seems pretty content to call him mafia without (from what I can tell) any re-evaluation. (5) Related to (4), hard stance on Onegu in nightphase - he's saying that Onegu cannot possibly believe what he's saying/double standards on him and Shapelog but then he takes a read based on LESS RELIABLE INFORMATION (NK WIFOM from night 1) and wants to lynch GigyaS over what from his perspective should be MORE RELIABLE INFORMATION (Onegu cannot believe what he's possibly saying). The problem with this is that both GB and Onegu are calling each other mafia, Onegu is straightaway lynching GB, GB isn't lynching Onegu straightaway though, so I'm trying to figure out if this could be the surface of double bussing or what.
(1) I've just explained that it wasn't a reaction test, it was just to have people discussing. This means that how people react doesn't matter. So I don't necessarily was expecting a response from Shapelog and I don't necessarily need to infer anything from his responses. Also, have in mind that although I've posted a vote without reasoning, it doesn't mean I didn't have a read on Kmatt. I did.
(2) I didn't click on the post lol so I don't know what you're talking about, I will check it after I post this.
(3) Fair enough. I had in mind that if I wasn't going to be killed night1 it was because I was wrong (my reads differ from basically everyone in the thread, I supposed that if I was right I would die, therefore, my reads are wrong and I should re-check Irish's scum reads). But you are right.
(4) Lurking isn't the reason I am scum reading him, so coming in and out of the thread doesn't matter. What matters is HOW he is doing it, and he is being very selective on what to talk about and not really pursuing any person to further investigate people's alignment, which makes me think he is scum.
(5) You're right, again. I should be voting Onegu.
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Mderg, what's your read on Koshi?
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On January 03 2016 01:41 GlowingBear wrote:
Mderg, what's your read on Koshi?
Koshi is always town. He's not in this game, though.
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GB -
Re: (4) I didn't say you were scumreading mderg for lurking. I am saying that he is providing new content (re-entering thread, that wasn't supposed to be a lurking context) and then you are not re-evaluating him on that.
On (4) you still think his approach after his latest bit of posting is scummy?
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Reading kush/Fidei filters again....
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Vote Count - Day 2
GlowingBear (3): Kmatt, Onegu, mderg
Onegu (1): GlowingBear
GiygaS (0) GlowingBear
Not Voting (6): Shapelog, The Shining, GiygaS, NocturneMage, Fidei86, nooniansoong
At this time, GlowingBear is slated to be lynched.
Day 1 ends in on Sunday, Jan 03 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00).
The voting thread is here.
Only votes there will be counted.
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Getting an overall town feeling from Noon's filter, particularly with the Shapelog/Onegu scumslip discussion and re-eval of Fidei, GigyaS and KMatt.
Moving on...
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On January 03 2016 01:45 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2016 01:41 GlowingBear wrote:
Mderg, what's your read on Koshi? Koshi is always town. He's not in this game, though.
ROFL I meant Onegu
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EPT
