EPTReally Small Mafia II
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On December 12 2015 08:13 Damdred wrote: I like you right now. Let's see where we end up. Why do you like Greymist for this? | ||
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On December 12 2015 08:21 Damdred wrote: There's two reasons why I like greymist both are shitty to a degree one more so than the last. The most simple and superficial reason was that after a super rough week he made me chuckle and put me in a good mood in the game. The second shitty reason was he answered my question in a way that wasn't over confident in how he approached me or rather betraying a knowledge he shouldn't have. Both are nai but it's a place to start liking someone I think the laughing thing is borderline legit actually. I find mafia are often not carefree enough to insert humor into their posts. Although that didn't make me laugh at all. | ||
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On December 12 2015 08:36 GreYMisT wrote: I hope this interaction wasn't just a roundabout way to tell me I'm not funny. Thanks Darth. Here's a question for you: did you focus on Damdred because he said he liked me in particular, or was it the fact he was saying he liked anyone at all this early? Maybe i'm tooo stupid to understand the joke Greymist  About the other thing I was just trying to provoke a conversation really. I didn't really see what he is seeing so I also wanted to understand his thought processes which I now do. | ||
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On December 12 2015 08:43 Damdred wrote: <3 My inner geript says that this is a fine idea I Lol'd | ||
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On December 12 2015 11:56 Damdred wrote: Kinda want to lynch everyone who hasn't posted now... But id lynch rels first isn't it the middle of the night in europe? Gotta give them some time. | ||
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On December 12 2015 13:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: I believe Damdred is town. Hi rayn. Can you provide your reasoning please? | ||
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On December 12 2015 13:52 RtaniSoul wrote: *sanctioned message by both heads We are seeking a third head. Please apply. Unless your name is DP and your nose is firmly up everyone's ass already. Carry on ^^ Like I get that you want to seem hip or whatever, but if you are gonna post something could you at least post something relevant to solving the game. K thanks. | ||
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On December 12 2015 13:58 DarthPunk wrote: OK rayn is town To elaborate on this. I think that the read that he gave on Damdred was really un-obvious and made a heap of sense which are two things that I don't think that mafia are good at faking, on the surface at least and that usually don;t happen in the same read. | ||
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On December 12 2015 15:03 RtaniSoul wrote: Game? I've been mislynched once on this site, in large part because I failed to convince geript that DP was a skeezy scumbucket with a geript in his pocket. Artie remembers Imperial and remembers a more aggressive DP. I glanced through the town game before that just in case replacing in might have had an effect on DP's play, but no dice. Aggressive there right out the starting gate. These are only a few games, but given they support the perception we already have... Where you getting this from, rayn? -waves at DP- Because pointing out that you're buddying people is definitely not worth mentioning or anything ^^ We up for a round two? Then you should have said that instead of saying something unclear and ambiguous. Regarding me 'buddying' people. Yep I do do it. I do it as both alignments. I also am aggressive as both alignments. I have been called scum for being more or less aggressive than 'usual' and town foor being more or less aggressive than 'usual' I firmly beleive that I cannot be read by meta. But you are welcome to try I suppose. Who do you think is mafia? Who do you think is town? Why? | ||
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On December 12 2015 18:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: Wait DP, do you also think Greymist is town for what he posted so far? Nope. | ||
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On December 12 2015 23:10 Rels wrote: I don't like this post. It reads to me like "look I'm doing stuff" @DP Why did you do that and what did you find ? I did it because I have never played a game with you and I have played with everyone else in this game. Basically I just wanted to get a grasp on who you were as a player. | ||
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On December 12 2015 23:18 Rels wrote: Another thing from DP I don't like. He says "rayn is town"; nobody questions him about it; 6 minutes later after rayn ignores this post, he posts an explanation. I could see him being scum waiting for someone to ask for his explanation, then posting it anyway. Just my posting style. I post in bits. Although I like the pressure. Keep it up! | ||
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Town marv with one post? Don't think so. Things I like: The Hydra Townie. You can see their thought process. Rso is clearly dealing with a healthy case of townie paranoia. The fact that they have to discuss things and the fact that they appear to be having genuine conversations with one another regarding their recollections of my meta. Rayn I guess you would call this a 'tone' read or whatever, but I am pretty darn good at spotting a townie rayn and alot of what he says makes sense. HIs damdred read was godlike and hard to fake as I have said earlier. His questioning of Rels was also good in that it showed one of the tendencies that I can recall rayn having. That being that he loves to really comb through the things people are saying in order to find small inconsistencies or breakdowns of a normal thought Process. Rels Not everything he has posted really makes sense, but he is aggressive and is able to change tack really quickly. I also kinda like the dissonance between what he is saying and where he is voting. Like that is something really obvious that scum would avoid IMO and reads like someone who does not give a fuck. Does not give a fuck = Good Things I don't like: The hydra trying to meta read me. Especially cause it is just RSO posting and she has played in exactly 1! game with me ever. Just don't use meta. You don't know how and it is horrible when used incorrectly. Marv | ||
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Marv Is this Bish dead in a ditch? if not town marv does not just afk at the start of a game IMO. GreyMist On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote: I don't have time at the moment to post any follow up analysis, so I will only answer the question directed at me. I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have. It's going to be a couple more hours still before I'm able to actually post a lot again, but I promise I'm reading and can interject if need be. This smells like bullshit to me. | ||
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On December 13 2015 08:39 Damdred wrote: The fact that they have to discuss things and the fact that they appear to be having genuine conversations with one another regarding their recollections of my meta. I love this part of the hydra read If you could lynch someone right now who would it be? | ||
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On December 13 2015 08:56 Damdred wrote: Marv, no other way around it today. If Marv is mafia its probably greymist his partner maybe rels he likes to bus Yep I think marv is the lynch. | ||
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On December 13 2015 09:55 GreYMisT wrote: Also, here is some more food for thought. According to the post Marv will be mod killed if he fails to vote. This means we lay before us a choice. Option 1 is to vote Marv, allowing essentially a no lynch day 1 with information. Option number 2 is to let the mod kill happen, and go for double. Don't know how you all feel about either option, Something to Regard if people start getting strong feelings about someone . Why are you deflecting the decision making onto others here? Do you not have your own opinion on what we should do in this situation? | ||
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On December 13 2015 18:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: DarthPunk are you still around? Yeah but I'm about to go to bed. What's up? | ||
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On December 13 2015 19:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Where is your read on Rels really based on? I mean like, what do these things mean: "like the dissonance between what he is saying and where he is voting" and " reads like someone who does not give a fuck" Have you seen Rels' scumplay? No I have not seen his scum play. It is based on him not giving a fuck what he looks like. I think that is a townie trait more than a scum trait. | ||
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On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote: But you don't have a read on Damdred after saying rayn's read is godlike ? It's true it sounds like a bad excuse. I am pretty sure I stated that I like Damdred In the thread based on his early game interactions. And I thought rayn also made a good point about Damdred. Should be pretty clear I don't want to lynch Damdred. | ||
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On December 13 2015 19:56 Rels wrote: We do not gain a mislynch from a modkill. With a mislynch + NK we are at 3v2 LYLO tomorrow With a modkill + mafia lynch + NK we are at 3v1 MYLO tomorrow. With a modkill + mislynch + NK we lost. Why you assuming marv is gonna flip town? | ||
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On December 13 2015 19:59 Rels wrote: Cause these are the scenarios where marv gets modkilled. I assume he won't get modkilled as scum. Wait What? | ||
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On December 13 2015 20:04 Rels wrote: Because he would vote at the last second to not be modkilled. Right. | ||
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My preferred lynches are marv> greymist in that order. | ||
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I got 20 minutes before I leave for work. | ||
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On December 14 2015 05:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: rayn Damdred rsoultanis rels greymist marv (unless the two last have changed) Well the list has changed. BUT. How does this question make any sense? On December 14 2015 02:13 RtaniSoul wrote: @DP, if you could address the above question...who is scum other than marv?...that would be nice. When it is super clear what my reads have been. | ||
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That makes no fucking sense. | ||
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On December 14 2015 05:29 marvellosity wrote: who did this? art/rsoul are calling him somewhat town rels started town on him and then it fell off, which is actually a really weird way round for things to go you're equivalenting (totes a word) yourself with other players except there is no equivalence. really afk now. Rels did it IIRC | ||
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On December 14 2015 05:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: I did it. Not that i called him scum for it but i found it weird considering he had given out reads on other vocal players. DarthPunk what are the changes in your reads? I think lynching marv is wrong at this point. I remember analyzing his scum games on a few podcasts and one of the things he did was flame people hard for calling him out. Also in the past 4 years or so he HAS often been afk on weekends. Like that is a legit thing. Greymist has looked much better recently and he has made some interesting pushes even if he is fucking it up every now and then. I think both my scum reads were off and that I need to re-evaluate. I think the hydra and damdred both look worse to me right now. Like what has damdred done recently to solve the game. And the hydra's push on me is just plain retarded. It's almost if they don;t understand the EV of using PoE in smaller games. | ||
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On December 14 2015 05:37 DarthPunk wrote: I think lynching marv is wrong at this point. I remember analyzing his scum games on a few podcasts and one of the things he did was flame people hard for calling him out. Also in the past 4 years or so he HAS often been afk on weekends. Like that is a legit thing. Greymist has looked much better recently and he has made some interesting pushes even if he is fucking it up every now and then. I think both my scum reads were off and that I need to re-evaluate. I think the hydra and damdred both look worse to me right now. And the hydra's push on me is just plain retarded. It's almost if they don;t understand the EV of using PoE in smaller games. | ||
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On December 14 2015 05:38 Damdred wrote: Marv is town, the reason I say this is he hates giving town information if he is scum and going to roll over. Two hours and thirty to go and he comes in and tries to fins scum? Maybe he gets lynched maybe not but I he basically Poe town and I don't think scum marv does that on his death bed+ tone. ##unvote Who do you want to lynch? | ||
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On December 14 2015 05:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oh god and then you make posts like that... Now i have absolutely no idea what to do. Like why do you just plain out refuse to consider Rels as mafia? Damdred scum over Rels, no fucking hell ever. I'm not. He could be mafia. I have no idea at this point when both my scum reads look townie at EoD. | ||
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On December 14 2015 05:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have to go for 15mins. I'll brb. I Literally leave in 15 min. | ||
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go read my VS games. I sheep rayn like all the time as both alignments. | ||
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See you tonight. | ||
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I'm torn about the marv lynch. I feel a tiny bit good that I thought he was scum at one point. I feel fucking super bad that I thought he was town after that. Some very quick thoughts from my skim. Rayn Obv town. He is scumhunting in a typical rayn way with deep fucking analysis that makes me super jealous. Like to find that inconsistency in marvs statements vs his expected thought process is legit. Marv legit got caught. Not cause he was afk most of day one but based on inconsistencies. Rels Lol? Wtf? I keep town reading him for his panics and his super fast switching/ tunnels. Anyone know if he could play that kind of scum game? [b]Greymist[\b] Looks kinda bad to me post marv flip. I don't know if any of you will be able to relate to this sentiment. But his posting reminds me of somebody that played here called goodkarma. Now, Goodkarma used to post really clean nice long analysis posts as scum but they always felt a bit off as mafia and everything didn't add up quite right. Like GM is posting nicely worded and formatted posts. But to me it seemed he was waffling on marv, calling him out but really not wanting to lynch him. He also posted that setup speculation where he was asking everyone else to take the lead and not doing so himself. Yeah GM kinda scummy. [b]The Hydra[\b] I legit think RSO is just bad at the game. Not sure if they are scum even though they are doing dumb stuff and clearly give zero fucks about the outcome of the lynch, that interaction within the hydra is tough to fake. Where to from here: I think we could almost just sheep rayn every lynch and win the game :D | ||
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On December 14 2015 17:41 Rels wrote: I thought you read some games of mine ? You didn't read any scum games ? I could do that as scum. But, WIFOM alert, I wouldn't if I was scum with marv. I skimmed some games. No scum games i think. Who do you think looks best and who looks worst from the marv flip? | ||
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On December 15 2015 00:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: It basically has to do with the stuff that starts around when marv comes back or starts posting. First his posting makes DP unvote him. marv himself is voting for DP at this point. I express my ocncerns and Rels, unvote marv and vote for Rels. This is what Greymist posts there: After this marv addresses me directly and says he is keeping his vote his vote on DP. Then Greymist posts these posts: Now here the situation is the following; marv has made up his mind on the lynch. If Greymist is scum with him he knows this is the case since marv said he will leave, and left. - marv is voting for DP. Doesn't want to lynch Rels. - DP is voting for noone, and there is no guarantee who he will vote -- most likely Rels or marv, since regardless of his affiliation those are basically his options here. - I am voting for Rels (but at the time i am questioning other people aswell, since Rels is not around) - Damdred is on marv, soon to unvote -- no guarantee what he will do - Hydra is afk, no guarantee if they will come back or not, and if they do, what they will do In my opinion, in this case (assuming Greymist is scum here), he has to do something. He has to either align with marv (which marv has kinda done with him) and vote for DP or vote for Rels. I basically think there is no way Greymist wants to bus marv if he is scum here because the last minutes of the dayphase heavily contradict that narrative. What does Greymist do? Look at the last set of posts. Instead of doing EITHER of the "right" things (voting for DP/Rels) he decides to cast doubt on marv (even before that) and call DP town. Now i would understand this if Greymist was scum with DP, but that is impossible. At this point marv has made his play, and got people doubtful about if he is scum. At this point you need to hammer the lynch home as scum -- because you have been given the ammunition for doing that. Instead of doing that Greymist does the opposite. I don't believe he is scum. This makes sense. | ||
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I'm about to go to work in 20 min or so. And I am going out for dinner straight after work. So I will be back in a little over 12 hours. I really feel like it's hard to interact in the thread with the timezone differences and having like 3 hours per day to post but I am trying. If I Die just sheep rayn. | ||
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On December 15 2015 06:30 GreYMisT wrote: To each his own. I'm not worried about being lynched and even if I am I think the remaining town will be able to dissect this whole night phase quite nicely. I'll be spending the next day phase trying to find scum. I'll freely interact with anyone towards those ends. Who do you want to lynch right now and why? Who is most likely town to you and why? | ||
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On December 15 2015 06:36 Rels wrote: He didn't push hard but he did push me and tried to resist the switch off me to marv. I guess that is kinda true. But I think scum in that position would do one of three things. 1.) Push another target really hard. 2.) Bus marv really hard. 3.) Ignore the lynch entirely. I do not see what grey would be thinking as scum at EoD kinda waffling around his scum buddies lynch. | ||
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Do you not consider that GM could have just changed his perception of that post over the course of time? | ||
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On December 15 2015 06:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: medicccuuuuuu saveeeooooo pl0x! | ||
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On December 15 2015 06:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: He is literally using two different posts to justify his read on Rels. one post is meh.... which he now claims is not actually the post he was talking about. the second post must be a lie. what am i supposed to think? What if he just changed his mind based on the ~day of time playing the game that had passed or started viewing that post differently with different information? | ||
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On December 15 2015 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: read the post please....... that's not possible. Right. | ||
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On December 15 2015 06:59 Rels wrote: Please explain how a townie make up a reason to explain a past post, then realize that reason isn't true ? Clearly I still don't get it. I'm gonna read it again. | ||
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Some things. I'm not the medic. Rels looks really townie to me. I think RSO looks bad. I think the medic should probably claim if a save doesn't effect the number of mis-lynches we get because a confirmed townie is really strong in a small game. Free to chat for a little if anyone is around while I read through some stuff. | ||
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On December 15 2015 19:33 Rels wrote: Did you reread the thing on GM like you said you would ? What did you think of it ? Apprently nothing much since you didn't even mention it ? Nope. I literally just got home skimmed the last page and posted that. | ||
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On December 15 2015 19:39 Rels wrote: Well, can you read it ? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/499921-really-small-mafia-ii?page=24#466 Yes I was reading it you don't need to link me that shit. ]Anyway I get what you mean in that his arguments shifted and were created out of thin almost in those discussions with you. | ||
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Rayn? What happens to all your reasoning in that big post about greymist I really liked now that he is scum in your eyes? You too Rels can you explain what in the fuck Scum!Greymist was doing at EoD waffling around the marv lynch? How do you think they were furthering their objectives as a team at that point? Like I don't think you are wrong necessarily, but I think that there are reasons for grey being both alignments and I'm not sure which ones are the ones that we need to pay the most attention too. | ||
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On December 15 2015 19:47 Rels wrote: Yep, he made up an a reason to explain why he posted something; then said he made a mistake and that the reason wasn't true. I think it's impossible for a someone to make up a reason to explain one of his own post if he's town. The bolded is very, very untrue. | ||
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I don't think the hydra is actually scumhunting or really gives a fuck about the game at all. | ||
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Pretty sure I've done it myself. Look at any bad townies bad post-hoc rationalizations for things. Like that is one of the biggest reasons bad townies get mislynched. No, I'm not going to look for a specific example for you. But I assure you it does happen. (like I'm also pretty sure rayn has raged at bad townies doing this at least once) | ||
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On December 15 2015 20:02 Rels wrote: I think only one game, why ? I also hosted two games in which he played. Because at one point in TL mafia history, around the time when GreyMist and I played a lot off mafia, marv was considered a legitimate god at the game. Like the Flash of TL mafia. Coming from that mindset or perspective that marv is super super good and could singlehandidly the game it is an intimidating prospect to lynch him for ??? reasons. Like Rayn did have a very good reason later on but at first it was cause he was AFK all weekend (which he is also known for if you have played with him a lot) given this historical context between the players it actually makes sense somewhat that GreyMist was reacting to the marv lynch this way. And it also makes sense that you would not necessarily notice this because you lack the historical context and marv has probably (certainly?) dropped off from his prime playing days. | ||
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Like I was pretty good at this game when I was in my prime. (my prime has passed due to real life shit sadly) | ||
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Rayn I would love to play one of these games where the mafia team tries a bit harder. It kinda sucks that the game is solved already. Anyway ##vote: RtaniSoul | ||
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Thanks for your input. | ||
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On December 16 2015 06:18 RtaniSoul wrote: If you want to win the game today instead of in 72 hours you should probably lynch Rels instead I don't think rels is more likely to be scum than you are. I actually quite strongly believe the opposite. | ||
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On December 16 2015 12:01 RtaniSoul wrote: Why Rels is scum: I told lex when I first saw this post that if marv is scum, Rels had a good chance of being his partner for this. It's completely lining up the switch from marv to DP the moment marv posts. There's nothing here to suggest he'd even think twice about it or that it's a real scumread. Also, note that this post came well before marv had been absent long enough from the thread to start getting a mountain of votes. Point 2: marv votes DP and not Rels. Even if we assume that he really did AFK as scum while being lynched after returning to the thread last minute to try to squirm out of a lynch, he was still in the thread when rayn voted Rels at the very least. He did not vote to survive, and we know that this was not because he was town. That makes it very likely that Rels is scum! Point 3: Rels doesn't actually believe what he's saying when he says our "reasons" are bad for our reads. Specifically, Rels stated in the scum QT of Drams that it made sense that rayn sided (incorrectly) with his fake claim because he was being logical while I sided (entirely correctly) with the real RBer for...his townie tone. Not only did he recognize that rsoultin bases her reads on tone, but he used some of her reads in his towngame that just ended. This is made up to attempt to throw scum on us and he doesn't really believe it. Point 4: Rels is try-harding. Town, unless they believe there is scum in rayn/dp, doesn't need to try-hard. We've won! Bad townies will look at Rels and go damn, he's trying so hard, he must be town. But they're missing the obvious. Only scum needs to try here. Joke's on him, though No amount of try-harding will keep him from being lynched Day 3.When we flip town, reread this amazing case without prejudice, and vote Rels for ultimate justice. And yes...we rock. We don't need to try-hard to win  Ciao I actually like this post ##unvote | ||
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On December 16 2015 12:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think we need a train. What does this mean? | ||
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Doesn't make sense from a town perspective IMO. Like i think as town you either care about the game or you don't I don;t think townies will mess around with how they are perceived like the hydra is doing. | ||
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On December 16 2015 22:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Fucking shit i believe DarthPunk is mafia. The reasoning for this is the following; I am throwing out everything marv ever did as WIFOM. I can't figure out what his actions mean and the answer is WIFOM any-fucking-ways. I have overlooked his play based on marv's actions and the fact that Rels was a lynch to go for the scumteam in case Rels is NOT scum, but i actually believe Damdred is right here. I believe mafia did want me to lynch instead of pushing on their own. The huge problem i have with DP is the following. Whenever he figures out something there is literally zero follow-up and he is just waiting for everyone else to do shit. I don't think that's townie for him. The following cases; - On D1 he figures out marv is town --> no follow up on lynch, except "i will sheep rayn" - On N1/D2 he figures out Greymist is town --> no clear follow up on which one of Rels/Hydra is scum - Right here, now, he figures out Hydra is town --> no vote on Rels, WHAT OTHER OPTION HE THINKS THERE IS IF HE THINKS THE HYDRA IS TOWN?!?!? I think he is too laid back and i don't think he is actually thinking the game as a whole and i fucking think he is scum for it. ##vote DarthPunk This is fine with me. Just figure out the game once I die lover <3 ##vote:Darthpunk Just checking in before bed and too tired/busy to fight this. | ||
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I haven't invested much time so I agree it might look bad. I think you should lynch the hydra after I die though. Rels looks far too invested to be not town and the hydra only started caring when they were getting lynched. Like, they trolled and then pretended to matyr but didn;t really matyr. Anyway it's past midnight bed for reals. GGLGLGGL rayn. | ||
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On December 16 2015 22:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like i understand the PoE here is very very important and my PoE says the Hydra is not mafia. But at the same time everyone else -- after PoE'ing comes to conclusion "this means this guy has to be mafia", when DP just leaves it at one step behind into "these guys are not mafia". This is also self evident and I assume you can all count :D | ||
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On December 16 2015 22:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really don't know what else to say at the moment. If DP is not going to do anything further i am never switching my vote. I understand this is pretty shitty if he is town as we live on the other sides of the world and we have basically not been in the thread at all at the same time due to time zones / constraints.  But still i believe this is the most likely correct answer at this point. it's actually fine for me to die. Just make sure you get the last lynch right. game stuff ends here I have this feeling in the pit of my stomach like I really want to fight my lynch the way I would have in the past but real life takes too much time to play mafia properly and there is no way I can work a 12 hour day on less than 6 hours sleep. During this game I was able to spend at the most 3 hours per day to read and post in the thread and the way I have always played has been in a very interactive way that requires lots of time and attention and spam Basically the reason I am saying all this because this will be my last game of mafia for the foreseeable future. (No Rayn you will not again convince me to play after I refuse citing time constraints so you can lynch me due to not doing enough.) It is not fair on my past self and all the effort I used to put into this game I loved. I can't play to my own standards and it is incredibly frustrating to be in that situation where instead of a mafia god I am a fucking grandfather who should have already retired. I am grateful though that I got to play in this last game with two of my favourite players ever (marv/Rayn) And someone new who vividly reminds me of how I once played the game. So thanks for that. Also, as it's my own fucking eulogy: Rso you are legit terrible at the game. Artanis fuck you for not trying in vengeful you prick. Rayn thanks for the memories but I still lynched the shit out of you in hydra. Marv you are a god except your ego is a force of fucking nature. Fuck you holy flare. I think that's everything . I'm turning off my phone so I can salvage some sleep. It was a wild ride while it lasted. Peace! | ||
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On December 16 2015 23:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: You are fucking better than "i need more than 3 hours a day".... My 3 hours are when nobody is in the thread. Like I would have to stay up all night to be able to play the kind of interactive style that I carry with. I feel reall shitty that you have to carry me to the win at Lylo. But plz do. I want those tasty database stats. Anyway I was gonna say more but my phone deleted it and I'm gonna be a wreck at work already. | ||
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On December 16 2015 23:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##unvote ##vote Rels I am sorry if you are town but i just can't find any other answer right now. I think this is the wrong answer and the hydra is. I also don't want to be lynched at Lylo over fucking Rso. So probs lynch me first if your not lynching hydra. | ||
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Also hydras should look Way Way Wayyy better than Rso+artanis do. Remember the hydra game and how town rolled scum in 2 days? This hydra not doing enough with such an obviously pro town mechanic. | ||
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On December 16 2015 23:53 RtaniSoul wrote: Oh nevermind, you're right Still, that's not what I meant. The DP flip can easily be explained by the fact that we saw townie things in you. Man it's gonna be fun watching you try and back out of this read at lylo. Rels remember this post please. | ||
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On December 17 2015 00:04 RtaniSoul wrote: We were asking about your initial reply to the initial post, not everything that occurred afterwards that you couldn't have known when you first replied.  | ||
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Anyway I am very surprised that rels is scum and I think he played it really well. | ||
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On December 17 2015 17:31 Rels wrote: rayn when you're around, poke me You don't want to talk to me? | ||
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I really like the way you play for starters you have done an excellent job this game. I really thought you were town for the way you fanatically pushed RSO. It's kinda of shocking that you are mafia actually. How long have you been playing mafia for? | ||
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On December 17 2015 18:06 Rels wrote: Bastard. There is no praise in that post since I'm not scum. This is a hidden slap to my face p: 8 month BTW. I still have no idea how to detect town and scum mindset apparently. Your posts all seem town motivated to me, apart the martyring ones that rayn loved so much. The matyring was legit. And so was the praise. This is my last game and I really would have been fine being lynched. And I really do think you have played really well. You remind me of myself for real. | ||
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On December 17 2015 18:09 Rels wrote: This is a way of thinking I've been fighting BTW. Only lazy townies and scum think like that. I thought that yesterday when we lynched artasoul: "at least I'm not losing to them being scum", but I wanna win. At some point you just have to trust in your biggest town read though or the scumhunting becomes too difficult IMO` | ||
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On December 17 2015 18:13 Rels wrote: Let's imagine you're scum. You are the most objectively scummy person in the game. But you win because you make a bullshit emotionnal post. Would you be happy with your win ? not at all. | ||
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I'm not even happy winning by getting carried by rayn so I would hate to win that way. | ||
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On December 17 2015 18:18 Rels wrote: What in Artasoul's post against me made you think "maybe these guys are town" ? I guess it was the matyring that really made me shift my viewpoint and the not caring if dying attitude because at that point only scum really cared if they died or not. Like scum needed to survive and here was the hydra really seeming to not give a fuck if they died. That shifted again when it appeared that they actually did care but were acting like they did not which is scummy objectively IMO. | ||
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No I don't understand what you are saying? I think I have scumread basically everyone except rayn many times. | ||
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On December 17 2015 18:37 Rels wrote: What dumb stuff are you talking about, and why are they bad at the game here ? They were trolling, didn't really fucking try calling me scum for bad meta reasons or no reason at all. Rephrasing the same argument after rayn said it was invalid etc. | ||
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On December 17 2015 18:48 Rels wrote: Can you quote one argument where I attack them pretty please ? can you stop twisting my words. You were arguing and you trashed them, you were winning the arguments. I didn't say that you attacked them. I can;t remember if you did or you didn;t, but you clearly are very aware as you keep on trying to trap me into saying something incorrect. | ||
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On December 17 2015 18:53 Rels wrote: Reading your filter, you were so vague all game that I have no idea what you really meant in most of your posts when I get rid of my preconception of what you would answer. Probably because it all made sense in context and you removed the context. | ||
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At this point of the game givben the context in which rayn is essentially universally town read having the medic claim and then solving by PoE is without question the correct play. However the hydra proceeds to troll and fuck up the productivity of the thread that a fucking universal town read is trying to establish. It was fucking anti town and dumb and I wanted to lynch the hydra so fucking badly for it. Especially cause at the time you were doing much the same as you are now, continuing to post and probe and TRY through adversity. Which I value ALOT when making assessments of players. ESPECIALLY when they are newish and I have no preconceived Ideas as to their play style or expectations of their ability level. Furthermore. Artanis and RSO are supposed to be good townies when they try and I KNOW artanis tries less as scum so it all fit the expectations of what their scumplay would look like in this situation. On December 15 2015 07:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: RtaniSoul you're actually the medic? On December 15 2015 07:12 RtaniSoul wrote: We're also a death miller detective. On December 15 2015 07:13 RtaniSoul wrote: And possibly schizophrenic. | ||
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On December 17 2015 19:08 Rels wrote: No it doesn't. There is something weird in your read of artasoul. You explain your townread by them "not giving a fuck and martyring"; well when you made your vote, they had already gone into their "not giving a fuck and martyring" phase for quite some time. This post you replied to is actually a good example: But even before, your vote is there: And here are the recent posts of artasoul at that point: + Show Spoiler + On December 15 2015 07:09 RtaniSoul wrote: Okay, we've decided to re-evaluate everything and we've come to some shocking revelations. After rereading over all the posts, we've decided Rayn is the most likely scum. He was inconsistent in his reads on Greymist. At first, he didn't want to lynch him, then suddenly he does. It just doesn't make any sense. Secondly, we also think Damdred is mafia. LoneMeow is a bastard host and it was actually Rels who flipped vanilla town. Marv was also town. DarthPunk we aren't sure on. We thought he might be town because he buddied people early but then he started making posts that made sense so now we're not sure. GreYMisT.. Well, we thought he was town for everything but then he misconstrued something he once said in an argument about an argument in an argument so we guess he's mafia anyway. Unfortunately this means the game is already lost because there's too many mafia On December 15 2015 07:10 RtaniSoul wrote: ##Vote Clarity On December 15 2015 07:12 RtaniSoul wrote: We're also a death miller detective. On December 15 2015 07:13 RtaniSoul wrote: And possibly schizophrenic. On December 15 2015 07:18 RtaniSoul wrote: raaaaaaaaaaayn we're gonna win Unless you lynch us. Then we might not win. Lighten up On December 15 2015 07:22 RtaniSoul wrote: ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/E2crgpE.png) #teamgirlydrinks On December 15 2015 07:25 RtaniSoul wrote: Well, the game feels figured out to us. We're still pretty sure on Rels, and if it isn't Rels it's you so, bottoms up! On December 15 2015 07:26 RtaniSoul wrote: We're fine with that we're on Lex' skype.On December 15 2015 07:26 RtaniSoul wrote: His plan is obviously good for town. That's why we lol'd. On December 15 2015 23:38 RtaniSoul wrote: Quite simply, the doctor should claim so there's no chance of a scum fake claim in lylo/mylo (with a couple possible exceptions that should be obvious). We could try hard here, but what's the point? Lynch Rels, and if he for some weird reason flips town, lynch GM. DP is right; if GM is scum it's not for that. To us the game is basically solved? So no, we really don't care anymore, especially when we were getting scumreads for being too clean. Newsflash: we're townie because we're town, not some stupid bullshit mindfuck only scum players are townie narrative. (Yes, I'm looking at you, rayn.) On December 15 2015 23:55 RtaniSoul wrote: We're fine with both us/Rels getting lynched if GM is in fact the doc. ##Vote Rels On December 15 2015 23:57 RtaniSoul wrote: Doesn't matter if we're right scum We're quite happy with our reads this game, thank youOn December 16 2015 00:25 RtaniSoul wrote: So we won unless DP is somehow scum nice.Gg rels On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote: Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?" On December 16 2015 00:33 RtaniSoul wrote: Possible but very unlikely. we can't get him lynched over us anyway so we're okay with losing if he's scum. On December 16 2015 00:39 RtaniSoul wrote: We checked in to check once when marv was posting and then everyone was switching to rels and we were fine with that. After that we got the deadline wrong by an hour so we missed that part. On December 16 2015 00:40 RtaniSoul wrote: You tried so hard and got so far but in the end you're still getting lynched today or tomorrow On December 16 2015 00:44 RtaniSoul wrote: Please do inform us how actively lurking and having our vote on scum is scummier than just being afk On December 16 2015 00:47 RtaniSoul wrote: Don't really care as long as you lynch rels tomorrow but lay it down anyway On December 16 2015 04:17 RtaniSoul wrote: Okay, first off we admit that we have been playing this game very lackadaisically. We've been taking full advantage of being a hydra where we can work things out together. We also haven't been paying this game as much attention as it probably deserves. That said, the above post was our reads before marv. Clearly if marv is town, as Lex thought, our two scumreads become Rels and DP. There were 5 votes on Rels when Lex checked the thread, 1 on DP and 1 on marv, so he didn't feel the need to post or change his vote while I was out. He was waiting for me to get back and we both didn't realize deadline was at 4 (our time) instead of 5. As for my comment on Rels...he'd gone after so many people in the thread that it just seemed really unlikely he was scum with DP or GM, and we had strong townreads on Damdred and rayn. So for both of us a Rels lynch was likely to hit scum, though I wasn't assuming marv was town like Lex was. Thus we didn't care perhaps as much as we should have. There are reasons for that but we're not going to go into it. Quite simply you have to ask yourselves why marv tries to get out of his lynch and why we don't take advantage of the Rels lynch. You could make the argument that we just assumed it would go through, and we're horrible scum players who both didn't follow thread and didn't keep track of the deadline when marv, who everyone knows doesn't like to play scum, is trying to get a mislynch. And if you think that's likely, go ahead and lynch us. Then lynch Rels. On December 16 2015 05:07 RtaniSoul wrote: Are you willing to give up when we flip town? Like, the "trashing game" had finished from their part, they had been martyring and not giving a fuck for more than about 24 hours, but you still held up to your scumread on them, even though they are doing something that will later make you townread them. There came a point where the martyring and not giving a fuck overcame the inter hydra interactions that I thought were townie. I think I basically said the above at some point Anyway im afk for a while. Keep posting though my skills are rusty and this is fun. | ||
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On December 17 2015 19:12 Rels wrote: When you voted them and said they were more likely to be scum than me, they had claimed they were not the doc Them claiming doc or not is not the point. The point is they were trolling and shitting up productive thread pushes by confirmed town.Scum was never ever gonna claim medic so I don't know why you telling me they didn't claim doc is relevant at all. | ||
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On December 17 2015 19:23 Rels wrote: Yep. First guy to jump back to marv, using his "those 3 cant be scum together" analysis. Yes, rayn is town congrats. | ||
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On December 17 2015 19:30 Rels wrote: I hope GM / rayn finds you scummy then. I will not roll over and die and make them lose if they scumread me; but fighting against every player in the thread is stressful. Same basically. | ||
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On December 18 2015 00:19 GreYMisT wrote: So first off everyone needs to have a lynch target and analysis post before day end. a new one. if someone does not everyone is to assuume that person is scum. I will have one as well, so dont worry. I also have something and I want both DP and Rels to humor me, and i'd like rayn to go along with it. I'd like both of you to do your best to make a case on rayn. disregard how unlikly it is, or whether or not its something youu actually believe. ill be here occassionally to respond, but ill mainly be following along and gathering my thoughts for the end of night post. Nope this is super fucking retarded greymist. | ||
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On December 18 2015 00:43 GreYMisT wrote: Explain your reasoning. You are a potential lynch target so you need to back up every assertion Because Rayn being scum makes no fucking sense based on everything that has happened in this game. Why would he lynch fucking Marv instead of just winning the game? He is blatantly town and fucking around making cases that nobody believes in only confuses the actual thinking that needs to happen. And what needs to happen is this: You and Rayn need to filter dive both rels and I and when we vote for each other at lylo whichever one of you is left will need to make a decision. That is the correct play. I will never ever ever lynch or vote for Rayn and I will not read or make a case on him. | ||
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On December 18 2015 00:57 Rels wrote: LOL you're the doc not the mayor last time I checked. But it's going to be easy. I think rayn is scum because he couldn't swear he's town; and I think I know why. If he swears he's town, that means DP is confirmed being a super dick posting a super cheap post; and rayn cannot do this. What is cheap about that post exactly? Everything in it was true and I fucking self voted, I wasn't angry or rage quitting. I just hoped Rayn would win the game after I died. | ||
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If I recall correctly the hydra was talking some bullshit about how you wouldn't listen to them and how you needed to be open to all of the options once they flipped. I was annoyed because everyone knows you are a really strong player and their posts seemed like pointless bullshit to draw attention to their martyring. I also consider myself smart enough to re-assess. But I also wanted to point out that there was not way my vote was moving onto you ever due to my town read on you being basically infallible. | ||
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On December 18 2015 21:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hey actually, i have a question to both of you. Who would you have killed if you were mafia and why? I think the correct play is to shoot the un-counterclaimed doc. Although Greymist was quite inactive so I think it is close. | ||
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On December 18 2015 22:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Let's ask the host if we can play voice mafia tonight about who is scum? I would actually love to do this except there is no way rels is not scum. | ||
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On December 18 2015 23:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: I mean like... There is no reason to assume Greymist protected anyone else than me on N1. Why do you assume i am alive at LYLO if i think there is no way you are mafia? Because I was using PoE Rels, DP, Rayn, GM, Hydra We had one lynch to spare at the time. So no matter what, we lynch scum as long as I am right on you which I am. So no matter who gets killed at night the scum would be confirmed at lylo therefore there is no need for me to reassess. | ||
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On December 18 2015 22:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay thanks, now i need DP's answer on this. DP -- a follow up question to this too; What is the best play for Rels in case he is scum? I think The correct play in a vacuum is to always kill The non CC'd doc. However; I think the best play for Rels was to shoot you. But, again, it's close. Like there are valid arguments for both sides, but you are far less likely to be outargued or swayed in your convictions than GreyMist I think. | ||
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On December 18 2015 23:15 Rels wrote: marv and DP are scum. marv is the lynch. marv starts posting. I am the lynch. marv deflects and pushes on DP. DP sheeps rayn on me. If marv is lynched: DP look very good and I look super suspicious. If DP is lynched: the game is almost lost for scum since marv is not a good enough scum player to survive two more lynches. (or, he's a too good town player to fake it as scum) If Rels is lynched: LYLO. DP looks null. marv looks OK. So it's a gambit. If DP is lynched for whatever reason marv lose the game right there. But the other cases are OK. Why would we not just both lynch you as scum and go straight to lylo? | ||
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On December 18 2015 23:19 Rels wrote: How do you know scum can no-kill ? LOL GTFO Rels. | ||
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On December 18 2015 23:21 Rels wrote: I'm not considering the motherfucking hypothetical scenarios. I'm considering what could possibly happen based on the actions of the players, and what outcome it would have. Well it doesn't make sense for a marv-DP team to not just lynch you, therefore what you posted makes no sense. | ||
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On December 18 2015 23:33 Rels wrote: OK I will resume one last time because you are all annoying me. What happened at EOD1 marv is the lynch. marv starts posting. Rels is the lynch. marv deflects off Rels and pushes on DP. DP sheeps rayn on Rels. Rels deflects off marv and pushes on Arsoul. Possible lynches: marv, DP, Rels. 1: marv + Rels is the team. How do the rest of the game looks like ? If Rels is lynched => marv look bad. Game is lost because marv is not a good scum player + is being suspected. BAD If DP is lynched => LYLO; marv and I, who were the two potential lynches, look super bad. A LITTLE BAD and UNLIKELY ANYWAY If marv is lynched => It looks like both scum didn't want to vote for each other. I look bad. BAD You were in this bad situation and as you just said, trying to lynch me is the best option out of those you are providing. Pretty funny that marv tried to lynch me then huh? On December 18 2015 23:33 Rels wrote: 2: marv + DP is the team. How do the rest of the game looks like ? If marv is lynched: DP look very good and I look super suspicious. GOOD If DP is lynched: the game is almost lost for scum since marv is not a good enough scum player to survive two more lynches. (or, he's a too good town player to fake it as scum). BAD but UNLIKELY If Rels is lynched: LYLO. DP looks null. marv looks OK. SUPER GOOD So why would marv-dp team go for option two and not the SUPER GOOD option 3? Makes no fucking sense still. | ||
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On December 18 2015 23:39 Rels wrote: Shut up fucking scum. It does not prove you're scum; anyone could be scum with marv but me with this analysis. It proves that I am town. I am town because marv was getting lynched and he hates giving information; but somehow we chose a way to play that ONLY LEAD TO BAD SCENARIOS. YOU COULD ONLY CHOOSE BAD SCENARIOS BECAUSE YOU HAD COLLECTIVELY PUT YOURSELF INTO A BAD SCENARIO BY PLAYING LIKE SHIT ON DAY ONE. | ||
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On December 18 2015 23:44 Rels wrote: MY POINT IS SCUMS DO NOT PLAY TO PUT THEMSELVES IN BAD SCENARIOS IN THE FIRST PLACE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE ONE OF YOU DOES NOT BUS THE OTHER IN THE SITUATION WE WERE IN AT EOD If scum NEVER put themselves into bad scenarios then scum would win all the fucking time. | ||
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On December 18 2015 23:47 Rels wrote: Yep and we they do, they bus Case in point: almost every game that was ever played Not true at all. | ||
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On December 18 2015 23:49 Rels wrote: Yep. It's the natural reaction and I have a lot of examples coming to mind rightnow If scum bussed all the fucking time then their would be no point in bussing because all it would do would be to out your whole fucking scum team. | ||
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On December 18 2015 23:56 Rels wrote: Dark Tournament: HTS is getting destroyed by NM => FF buses. FF is suprisingly getting lynched => disfo bus Haunted Mansion: FF and scott are getting lynched => Chrom buses. Mini Mafia: Hopeless and Onegu => BH buses. Drams: Shining => Rels and SL bus Generic Mini Mafia: marv => bus SOTW: Damdred AFK => bus Personality: rayn got caught => bus I hard defended Rayn when he was my scum buddy in Vengeful. No scum bussed in Personality 2 even when I looked really scummy. These are two examples off the top of my head. | ||
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On December 19 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: I would have won Drams if not for the retarded role claim. It was an absolutely correct play. And I'm only proving that marv and I would have bused each other as scum. Pretty sure you did whatever the fuck marv told you to do in the scum qt. | ||
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On December 19 2015 00:23 Rels wrote: What ? You really think marv could have survived 2 lynches in this high level town ? He was being lynched sooner or later; so the correct assumption to make here is that he did his best to give his teammate an advantage. I thought everyone was fucking retarded for not town reading you or whatever. Now it's a high level town. | ||
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On December 19 2015 01:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: oh fuck why did you ruin this game? ##unvote ##vote DarthPunk What? Why? | ||
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On December 19 2015 01:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: this is fucking bullshit i don't wanna deal with in any game. I think it breaks some unwritten rules. But even then. I am not scum so I don't know if he is actually cheating. | ||
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On December 19 2015 01:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##unvote ##vote Relsfuck it idc. No if you think I am scum tell me why and we can hash it out. | ||
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On December 19 2015 01:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: like idc. For me the game stops on page 51 and i thought Rels is scum. If DP was scum gg, well played. Yeah I know what you mean and I agree. I am scum. I am happy to call the game a draw if that is ok with you. | ||
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On December 19 2015 01:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really really tried to make Rels say something townie on N2/D3... I didn't see anything. He played poorly. | ||
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That was my last game. I wish it could have been better. | ||
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On December 19 2015 01:39 Rels wrote: Mm I think my marv's behaviour analysis was good though. Our play just made no sense if I was scum with him. No it was fucking terrible, it made you look terrible and you should have realized that and instead tried to convince rayn that I was scum. You even gave all the correct reasoning in that I was disinterested and didn't care about the lynches. Like I am not calling you bad at mafia here, I think you have the potential to be quite good. But some of the shit you were talking was like ?!?!? | ||
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GG's | ||
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