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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 26 2015 02:32 Xatalos wrote:
Btw BH: where did you get that sitewide ID of a post? Just out of curiosity.
Right click the timestamp and copy the link address / destination. Also, your earlier depiction of me being active during the first part of D1 and not during the second part of D1 is pretty hilariously bad given that I didn't really start playing until the last 12 hours of D1, and like 90% of my contributions happened then. Get on point boy
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Meh, I guess your rayn push was kind of dependent on Vivax being scum as well.
Could you explain why you still think Vivax is the most likely scum? He's been decently active, contributing positively whenever he's posted, and as scum he really just actively lurks without participating in any concrete way.
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On October 26 2015 02:36 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2015 02:32 Xatalos wrote:
Btw BH: where did you get that sitewide ID of a post? Just out of curiosity. Right click the timestamp and copy the link address / destination. Also, your earlier depiction of me being active during the first part of D1 and not during the second part of D1 is pretty hilariously bad given that I didn't really start playing until the last 12 hours of D1, and like 90% of my contributions happened then. Get on point boy
If you're hanging around, could you play now as well >.> It's getting too apathetic and scum may be just hiding among the lurking in the worst case.
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Thanks for the answer though
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If your playstyle is on-demand, then here are some demands:
1) What are your scumreads right now?
2) Do you still townread rayn and why? Did RNG fail you?
3) What do you make of the flips of Slam and marv?
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 26 2015 02:38 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2015 02:36 Blazinghand wrote:On October 26 2015 02:32 Xatalos wrote:
Btw BH: where did you get that sitewide ID of a post? Just out of curiosity. Right click the timestamp and copy the link address / destination. Also, your earlier depiction of me being active during the first part of D1 and not during the second part of D1 is pretty hilariously bad given that I didn't really start playing until the last 12 hours of D1, and like 90% of my contributions happened then. Get on point boy If you're hanging around, could you play now as well >.> It's getting too apathetic and scum may be just hiding among the lurking in the worst case.
yeah, I was a bit tied up with dinner but now I'm bringing my A=Game. I'm going over the end of D1 and doing some analysis now. I saw a couple bigger posts int he past few pages that I'll need to poke at as well. any requests
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 26 2015 02:42 Xatalos wrote:
If your playstyle is on-demand, then here are some demands:
1) What are your scumreads right now?
2) Do you still townread rayn and why? Did RNG fail you?
3) What do you make of the flips of Slam and marv?
1) 1gu and chrome, though this is not having analyzed anything that happened after the end of D1
2) yes, because rayn rarely fakes anger. No, RNG worked great, Rayn is obviously one hundo perecent scum
3) sometimes slam flips town in situations like this. that's to be expected. Marv getting shot makes sense, he was obvious town and he certainly would never get that upset about slam flipping town as scum. Besides myself Marv was the best player here and was universally townread by people that matter (read: me).
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
I see you're voting rayn, Xat. I'll be interested to check out the case on rayn, though I know in general you've been scumreading him for the past 72 hours. What can you say to me to convince me? Hit me with your best shot
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I'm actually not 97% confident anymore as I was, but there are still many reasons to scumread him as I've detailed. Let me ask you this: was he genuinely angry? When I looked at BTTB where he was frustrated that he was being voted, he still did his best to establish his reads in the thread and tried to convince people to lynch the scumteam after he was gone. He was angry, but he wasn't useless. Here he just... went to play Heroes when he was up for lynch, threw his vote around on me (obvious town) and Slam (likely town), without really caring about who would be lynched if it wasn't himself. There was no passion, drive or interested towards the lynch really. Completely unlike his attitude to the lynch as town in that game that was referenced.
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Then he proceeded to blame everything on Slam for "trolling", when in fact Slam was exceptionally serious and useful in this game (compared to rayn himself, for example - and certainly above Slam's own usual seriousness). It just felt like an excuse, or shift of blame, to avoid any responsibility when it was just a bad lynch.
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Note: marv was sad and disappointed in himself after the lynch, whereas rayn just blamed Slam with faulty reasoning. What's more, he never included "trolling" as a reason for lynching Slam beforehand. Why was it the reason afterwards?
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Originally the reason was merely a combination of PoE and OMGUS. And sheeping.
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Onegu is not really a bad lynch either. He's just made some incomprehensible accusations and arguments today and dug his own grave. I'd still like to get rayn out of the way before looking at the other suspects, as they're all dependent on rayn's alignment in one way or another.
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11589 Posts
Alright guys, today I will not play CS and I will play mafia.
I have quite a bit of catching up to do lel.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
Hmm, well, there's nothing inherently wrong in your logic. Assuming that's actually the case, then there's a good reason to be suspicious of rayn. I'll take a look at his play in BTTB, and i'll see if I can find an example of him getting mad fakely in a scum game for comparison as well. In terms of "might he get shot by scum" though, we may want to think on lynching him later and giving him a chance to get into the game in the event he is town.
Looking at his filter, at the end of page 9 is the end of Day 1: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/496215-mini-mafia-the-kinda-vanilla-experience?user=raynpelikoneet&page=9
In the short succession we have:
On October 24 2015 06:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
wGFhy do i play with trolls
hy do i play with people who are .............iusfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfaoC A
On October 24 2015 06:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
FUCK
On October 24 2015 06:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 06:04 marvellosity wrote:
Slam why couldn't you post that 10 minutes earlier? i know the exact fucking reason for that.
This all seems fairly reasonable to me. He's upset, and also upset at slam.
Then a few minutes later:
On October 24 2015 06:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
i am qeffectively quitting this game because this is not fun.
On October 24 2015 06:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 06:18 Xatalos wrote:On October 24 2015 06:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
i am qeffectively quitting this game because this is not fun. You mean the pressure? Get used to it. It's a part of playing Mafia. get fucked scum
On October 24 2015 06:19 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 06:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
wGFhy do i play with trolls
hy do i play with people who are .............iusfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfasfaoC A Why do you call him troll? He played this game more seriously and focused more on scumhunting than I've ever seen him do. Last time he was scum, he only trolled all game. Nothing like that here.
On October 24 2015 06:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
because he is a fucking troll
a fucking troll and nothing more
On October 24 2015 06:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 06:18 Onegu wrote:On October 24 2015 06:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
i am qeffectively quitting this game because this is not fun. Ok rayn I will play more serious for you my friend. But is it not fun because you cannot fake claim this game? doesn't even mater anymore. you are a troll too. fuck why do i fucking join games with stupid idiots who don't even fucking TRY to play mafia. I am so fucking pissed off. So.. fucking.. pissed.. off.
On October 24 2015 06:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 06:24 Vivax wrote:
i feel bad for slam but otherwise pretty relaxed i don't. he should be lynched 100% of the games he "plays" in.
On October 24 2015 06:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
mmm i cant deal with this rn.. i am gonna break something otherwise.
brb
On October 24 2015 06:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[21.10.2015 14:23:50] Joni Toiviainen: bleh
[21.10.2015 14:23:55] Joni Toiviainen: Slam joined the Rels game :/
[21.10.2015 14:24:55] Joni Toiviainen: almost had a full playable game
On October 24 2015 06:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And this is even nothing more than just bitching. I am done trying to be nice to people i don't like.
sue me.
I actually consider the first part of this to definitely fall into "reasonable anger at slam flipping town." Threatening to quit a game due to being mad at a townflip isn't on its own a problem (though following through is). Also, I agree with rayn that I feel a certain amount of raw, angry frustration at how annoying and difficult it is to play with alakaslam. Xat, you seemed to have some kind of ability to read him, but for most people slam is just a pain to play with as a player and as a human being. Rayn feels like his fun has been ruined. I commented on this earlier when Rels was suggesting a vanilla game, but your typical strategies for clearing away deadweight players like slam (cop checks, vigi shots, etc) are out the window in games like this so you need to have an alternative strategy.
Some people have reasonably argued that due tot he high level of play on TL, we don't actually need to worry about this. We have for the most part, productive and intelligent players who don't lurk or do bad things. And I think, in generla, that they are right. What's amazing is, right nwo Ia ctually have a ton of time commitmments. I'm hosting two games and playing in this one, and I also eat lots of dinner! And yet, I consider myself one of the "active" players in this game, despite my rather meager 5 or 6 (maybe more now) pages of filter. So what's going on here exactly? Well, basically, we have a lot of lurk happening in this game. People like ritoky (no offense ritoky) latching onto players like me is one thing; that's fine, sometimes you gotta sheep. But then we have like, Hopeless1 and 1gu (though 1gu has gotten better), slam, and Gumshoe, all of whom were like 1 hundo percent acceptable lynches during D1, mostly due to lack of real contributions. It looks like Chromatically has stepped upt oday so he's tentatively off the list, but look at what things were like going into the D1 lynch: We effectively had 5 people all of whom at the time needed a lynch. And in thet ime it takes to lynch 5 people, unless they're like all scum or something, we'll probably lose cause scum will shoot a bunch of us and it's game over.
So something like this happening and a slam lynch happening could be deeply upsetting to rayn. Where he goes off the rails though is here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/496215-mini-mafia-the-kinda-vanilla-experience?page=72#1436
Basically, page 72 is just rayn trolling, posting like slam and shitting up the thread. This comes off as really ungeniune compared to his other things. He's also basically stopped playing at this point. I like this post from him responding to the mod warning him though: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/496215-mini-mafia-the-kinda-vanilla-experience?page=73#1453
cause this is what I would actually expect from an angry rayn. The biting sarcasm is really really on-point in his hypothetical universe of "slam is terrible and is never punished for it, fuck this". Where did this post come from if rayn is scum, Xat? Was he faking this outpouring of hatred and ALSO the snappy response to the mod?
Rayn has made only one major post of note since the end of N1, despite his enormous outpouring of spam:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/496215-mini-mafia-the-kinda-vanilla-experience?page=82#1633
In which he critiques your reasoning process.
Overall, I don't find anything particularly suspicious about rayn's outpouring of anger following the D1 lynch. That being said, it has been 48 hours since then. He has had a LOT of time to cool down. Like, it's one thing to say "fuck it, fuck this game" then come back a few hours later and put your nose to the grindstone. Like, people do that all the time. I've done that. Rayn does that in every game heplays, basically, if something goes wrong. Sometimes you get mad and need to step away from the thread. Like me, though, rayn usually comes back and brings his a-game (SF64 mini P1 aside) and tries to win. Actually, SF64 mini P1 is an example of him not doing this as scum, hah.
So I'll disagree on anything that has to do with rayn faking anger. He could WELL be faking his anger there, I buy that; but I don't buy that he doesn't get angry as town. This all seems reasonable to me. The thing that stands out as bad is him not coming back to play the game over the cousre of 48 hours. I think Rayn would at least try to step up after the marv death since of the three best players it's just him and me left, if he were town. He's hoping we ignore him with "anger tell" and allow him not to contribute here.
so, given his lack of follow-up, I'm onboard with a rayn lynch. Let's vote him and see what he does.
This is not for your anger, rayn, but for the emptiness that came with it. The day is young; impress me and you may survive. If you're scum, though, you won't do anything about this.
That would be fine.
##vote raynpelikoneet
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
oh wow I forgot Yam was in this game.
hey yam check out my analysis of rayn's anger. You know the man better than me. What do you think?
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
Btw Chrom/GB I'll read and comment on that case after dinner, and see if it changes my mind
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Hm. Well, I guess we fundamentally came to the same conclusion (that town rayn anger should have been directed towards *something* productive, but here he just did nothing with it but spam and lurk.... not even naming any reads..). I guess it's fair to say that his initial reaction to Slam flipping town *could* have come from town. But I don't think his attitude up to the lynch and his attitude during N1/D2 are town at all.
I'm not sure if I'm capable of reading Slam that well either. It's just that there was such a HUGE difference to his last scumgame (in a more productive / useful direction here - in that game he just trolled) that it was hard to imagine this much difference between scum Slam games. If it had been the case, I would have been surprised.
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There's just something odd with how the votes went... Both GB and Onegu voted for rayn in a situation where his safety was still uncertain. Does this mean they're not scum with rayn? Perhaps. Or perhaps it's some WIFOM semi-bus plan. For now, though, I'd just like votes on rayn and perhaps Onegu/GB. Better to have multiple wagons than just one, especially until close to the deadline.
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Personally the part where Rayn antagonizes the host feels really out of char for mafia. It's one thing to feign anger to avoid actually scum hunting after a mislynch. It's another to invite warnings from the host when your not even actually angry.
Like, that's the thing we have to consider above all. If Rayn is actual scum, then hes not even mad one bit. Hes happy in fact. I've seen Rayn easily get back on his feet as scum after a post mislynch (I was the mislynch) hes good enough a player that he doesn't have to explode into uselessness.
compare this post right after my mislynch-
Thank you Sentinel for listening to me on thrawn (or good job or whatever your reasoning was ^^). Apologies guys for D1 lynch, i was really bad and that was bad from me.
I'll shut up for some time so people can actually talk and we don't end up with a clusterfuck like D1 lynch.
I was roleblocked.
to the shitstorm that we had after the slam lynch.
In that same scum game, he would go on to post reasonable shit like this soon after.
so this is what yamato is suggesting.
There are three blue claims. Me, Mr.SexyCake, and Sentinel can't all be mafia, so there are 2 scenarios he is considering:
1) Mr.CC and Sentinel are both fake-claiming and i am telling the truth. This can't possibly be true because that would mean there would be another blue claim and they would have shot their own scumbuddy. Town mislynched on D1 so instead of trying to mislynch on D2 they are giving town a mislynch by shooting their scumbuddy and instantly losing the game if someone claims blue on D2 (if someone claims we lynch one of Sent/CC or the blue claim - if the blue claim turns up blue, scum lose). This is ridiculosu to even consider.
2) I decided to fakeclaim parity cop 1h into the game instead of just not claiming. This makes no sense given that yamato knows how confident i am at my scumplay. Let's entertain a scenario that i did something very stupid (which i would never do) as mafia. The only reason i would do that as mafia is to assume there is no parity cop in the game - because one-one trade is ridiculous in a game where i can just mislynch 2 townies and win the game. There is no counter-claim. I have gained the town credit i was looking for. Good. What's my next move. I decide to buss my teammate thrawn by asking a vigilante to shoot him on N1. I already know there is no parity cop in the game because noone counter-claimed me, so the reasonable assumption is that there is a vigilante in the game. So i made a stupid and a risky claim that could end up in a 1-1 trade, when it worked, i make a stupid move that risks my scumbuddy being shot or lynched on D2 for town-credit i have already gained from my fake claim. In addition to all this stupidness thrawn, my scumbuddy, does not give me the town credit from my fake claim (which was the point of my scumteam in the first place) but instead attacks me and we go 1vs1 with him ensuring we pretty much tunnel each other on D2 - that will most likely end up in one of us getting lynched. So me, raynpelikoneet, did this as mafia, instead of... just lynching townies and playing scum as i normally do, by controlling the thread. Ridiculous.
Based purely on yamato even considering something this stupid he is mafia, 100%.
As opposed to spending all his time flaming Xatalos. Ignoring the fact that town Rayn has been known to implode on a regular game basis (I'm not super sure he doesn't do this as scum, the above post was only to demonstrate how level headed he could act as mafia) all the shitty inconsistencies hes making, such as how slam is a troll when really slam was super reasonable, are contradictions he doesn't need to fucking make if hes scum and level headed, after my lynch he doesnt go all "FAAAAK GUMSHOE YOU SCRUUUUB" he just moves onto the next point in his agenda. The only reason one would go off the handle and say all this stupid shit that is likely to get them lynched, is if they are emotional and why the fuck would a scum rayn be emotional? He won, he got his way, theres no need for the stupidity hes showcasing.
So whats more likely, that a scum Rayn would further antagonize a town already super biased against him post a mislynch he was responsible for, then bother the bloody host, thereby risking things for his team as well himself AND THEN fucking shoot his number one support(marv) when he couldve just shot xata and been like "of course scum shot xata, they are trying to fucking frame MEEEE FUCK SHIT FUCK TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLS!!!!!!!!!"
Or that Rayn is just super shit this game and is throwing a temper tantrum as Rayn tends to do?
It is super super easy to lynch a townie on the principle of their behavior, it is also a fantastic way to lose.
Please townies, use dem heads. Would a happy scum Rayn (a player that you all think is pretty great at this game,( but I honestly feel is far too shit more often than not to justify his occasionally fantasitic scum hunting) forfiet all thread control in some kind of mad meta gambit? Nop, he would probs not. So lets all do ourselves a favour and not collectively pull a Rayn -_-
Hopeless has been truly worthless, Yamato has been next to worthless, we have 3 more mislynches left. How about we spend a day lynching a lurker? See how that works out pwease.
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EPT
