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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
by "cheat" btw I mean "cheat on my spouse" not "cheat at mafia", since cheating at mafia is unforgiveable. you get the idea though.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 22 2015 07:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
wait
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 22 2015 07:29 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 07:26 Blazinghand wrote:On October 22 2015 07:15 gumshoe wrote:On October 22 2015 07:00 Xatalos wrote:On October 22 2015 06:56 gumshoe wrote:On October 22 2015 06:30 Chromatically wrote:
BH, you talk a lot about why your lynch is random but not at all about why we should follow it. Theres no point to him trying to convince us to follow his lynch. RNG is viable when reads are shit, convincing town to rng lynch requires shit reads. The game has just begun therefore reads have not had the time to develop quality, which means bh does not yet posses his convince condition. In the absence of the means to convince us to choose his method, all he can do is argue how his is truly random. Because a mafia player who argues for an actual rng lynch is forfeiting his ability to protect his teammates (and potentially himself) from rng. A competent scumer would usually have faith in his ability to sway town one way or another, which means he probably wouldn't risk an rng team kill. Basically there are only 3 kinds of players who would propose this strat. 1) a player who is so insecure about his play, he is honestly proposing to just roll the dice instead of play(at least on day 1). This player could be town or scum. 2) A town player who is just using this as a means to prove his innocence "why would I risk killing myself or my teamies as mafia? I must be town!" this works sorta because your odds are quite low of hitting yourself and if you do then you can always say "well I know I'm town, so I'll just disregard this result" -_- 3) A scummer who believes that town will not actually rng lynch because it is objectively a bad strat compared to a really solid case/read. He must hope for this, because to a scummer the rng lynch can actually just backfire, since mafia as an entity operate on a clear pool of lives as opposed to towns mist of health. we can probally straight up rule out the first possibility (bh be goods not scrubs), which leaves 2 and 3. This whole thing seems pre written so hard to tell between them. Honestly best just to ignore the whole thing unless it gets to the point where our reads are so junk an rng lynch is actually more likely. ether way, I dont think bh expects us to actually straight up rng lynch, this was probably just a way to look active early on without actually offering substance (though it might draw substance out of others, which is always good) Well I think it's better than the standard "hi" / "I'm town" openings  Bh, question, if your town please be honest : D were you planning this from the get go? Did you have your post pre written? When did you conceive the idea to use the random tl tag info? Would you have done this if you were mafia? if this was all pre thought up (which it seems to me it was) than it might not be any better than a glorified "hi, im town." not that this at all detracts from your argument for rng(which has it's convincing points but I still feel is a last resort) it's the possibility of you using this opening banter as an aegis that worries mah / : "From the get go" --> I wasn't particularly thinking of using RNG, but it's one of my most useful tools for hunting and lynching scum. I'd say I use it more often than not nowadays when I play. When the game started, I was like "you know what would be great here? Given the setup and the player list, this is perfect for RNG" and then I did it. "pre written" --> I copied/pasted it from the last time I used RNG, then filled in the names and list size from this game. The second RNG post where I announced the result, I also copied/pasted, so in a sense, yes, this was prewritten "when did you think of random tl tag info?" --> I first thought of this idea in September of 2013, and I used it for the first time in November 2013. Since then I've used it probably 5-10 times in games here on TL. "would you have done this if you were mafia?" --> the answer to this question is always "yes". I'm willing to lie, cheat, steal, doctor photographs, put items in boxes, fake plane tickets, pretend to have depression, a death in the family, etc, whatever it takes to win regardless of alignment. I'm one of the few players that does not pull punches as mafia. So yes, as mafia, I'd be fully willing to RNG if I percieved it to be a good idea (which it isn't; I've outlined why RNG is pro-town this game) You need to go deeper. Shouldn't you pursue RNG as scum so that people think you're so pro-town?
Absolutely. Now that I know that people think it's a towntell for me I will 100% do this next time I'm scum. I will always abuse town's trust as scum, and why not? Anythning that people say "BH never does this as scum, only as town", I will do it as scum, because it WORKS.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 23 2015 00:13 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 00:10 Chromatically wrote:On October 22 2015 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On October 22 2015 22:24 Chromatically wrote:
marv, any opinions on ritoky/my post on ritoky? not really. i mean you could be right and it's mafia picking up on those things. But i also don't see why a townie might not either. I can't really tell why one scenario should be particularly more likely than the other. So... *shrug* ritoky's pretty null for me basically Alright, I can see how it could come from town. I would say it's more likely from mafia because it's a very easy thing to point out about a very easy person to jump on, whereas town would explain why they thought gumshoe's thought process was scummy instead of just giving a laundry list of "tells" like this: On October 22 2015 06:41 ritoky wrote:On October 22 2015 06:39 Xatalos wrote:On October 22 2015 06:36 ritoky wrote:
gumshoe might be mafia. Why? poorly explained response, forced joke, clear post editing, extra lines at the end of post. I'm not as confident in it now as I was, but I think it's still reasonable especially in combination with the fact that the rest of his posts are pure filler with no actual reads/town content. on the other hand, i could tell you mafia are more likely to make hay and actually explain those things (which are quite easy to do) so that they have a nice looking post. I'd say mafia are more prone to overexplanation, no? :>
As a general rule... yes? I think it's more about how the explanation happens than whether it's too long (ovexplanation) or too short. In general, people make posts and then add explanations to them based on what makes sense to them logically. Because mafia are faking reads, when they try to add explantions, it has to be based on their guess of how someone would arrive at their conculsion logicailly. They're making it up artifically, and often this presents as overexplanation
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
Yam could just be having a slow start. It's still early int he US today, so maybe he'll pick up. All this talk about lynching yam is a distraction from the real scum, rayn
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 23 2015 02:38 marvellosity wrote:
shame rayn is probably town then, huh
pfah, details! you're not looking at the big picture, marv
I should probably read his filter at some point though. I am serious though about giving yamato some more time
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 23 2015 02:41 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 02:40 Blazinghand wrote:On October 23 2015 02:38 marvellosity wrote:
shame rayn is probably town then, huh pfah, details! you're not looking at the big picture, marv I should probably read his filter at some point though. I am serious though about giving yamato some more time the only picture i look at is the one where I'm ploughing mafia forcefully from behind pretty hard to shake my townfeels on rayn when he comes into the thread saying he has 2 townreads and no mafiareads when at that point i had 2 townreads and no mafiareads and the 2 townreads were the same as mine.
hmm, pretty thoughtful. I guess I'll need to post a super convincing scumread and case on rayn in order to convince you. is it possible that RNG has actually failed me and selected a town player for the first time ever?
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 23 2015 04:38 gumshoe wrote:
People I'm willing to lynch today.
Xata- as said before, looks like hes posting alot but isnt actually saying much of substance, worse yet he talked alot about stuff that didnt really matter at all (simulating a true rng lynch, trolling rayn, how he waffles days one me) but yeah he hasnt come back yet so probs need to hear more.
Hopeless- definition of worthless, but I'm not sure if mafia would actually be comfortable joining an active thread to contribute naught but dank memes.
onegu- "So I am debating on if I want to try this game or just troll..." as a player who has been absolutely shit and lazy as both mafia and town I'm well aware of the terrible impact such a player can have on a game. If they are not lynched quickly they become a huge distraction that cant particularly be read into cause they're shit and lazy. Mafia players can and have used the whole "hes so bad, there's no way hes mafia" meta plenty so if Onegu insists on being scummy then we should oblige him provided there isn't a better alternative.
People I'm mixed on
Bh: His original Rng post set me off a bit, but without writing another wot I'll just say that I liked the answers he gave to the questions I asked. If necessary I'll elaborate but for now lets just say his response felt very honest and off the cuff. His defense of Yam could be scummy, if Yam is town Bh might just be setting up for his flip in a very non committal way(asking for time as opposed to outright defending him), but trying to clear space for a townie so that they can talk freely doesnt strike me as bads, unless he thinks yamato plays worse when hes not under pressure / : they could be scumm bros but that would be a bit obvious no?
Chrom: Liked his posts on Ritoky though I still think hes totally wrong. town players have often found that kind of thing (tells early game) scummy, it's happened to me several times before. Reads early game are rarely things of beauty for our hats are often quite puny. An aggressive read like that can also backfire huge, concrete accusations are a great way for mafia to get unnecessary spotlight thrown onto them. So yeah, methinks chroms wrong but not scum. Though he may just be throwing together a convincing tunnel on a fairly inactive player.
The thing where Chrom went back and drew a connection with the picture feels very townie to me though, reminds me of my own happy tunnels, but I doubt the picture actually means much (would be a tad obvious if it did)
Glowing bear- not sure about him, Vivax seems like a weird target for mafia to push but they might not have a really good selection of schlubs to frame. Fun note, Bh, chrom and GB all clearing room for Yamato when he hasn't done much at all? Coincidence? Mabs, mabs not.
Not much else to report, Marv probs town? Someone said(bh I thunk) he'd be pretty shit if hes maf and he doesn't seems shitty so hurrah I suppose.
So no thoughts on rayn then? Cause he grilled you a fair amount, and despite that, all you said about him was:
On October 22 2015 08:17 gumshoe wrote:
Rayns a big meanie, nothings changed.
On October 22 2015 08:59 gumshoe wrote:
your a meanie and everyone else except chrome is not particularly notable.
In response to all the grilling, etc. So what's the deal gumshoe? Rayn attacks you and you mostly just call him mean, you don't comment on anything he has to say, any of his reads (other than directly related to your statements) and on your list post, he doesn't show up, not even as mixed.
You commented on the nature of the rng lynch on rayn (saying it was daring, etc) but you didn't actually comment about rayn himself. Are you avoiding talking about rayn? Let's hear a stance from you on this.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 23 2015 04:48 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 04:42 Blazinghand wrote:On October 23 2015 04:38 gumshoe wrote:
People I'm willing to lynch today.
Xata- as said before, looks like hes posting alot but isnt actually saying much of substance, worse yet he talked alot about stuff that didnt really matter at all (simulating a true rng lynch, trolling rayn, how he waffles days one me) but yeah he hasnt come back yet so probs need to hear more.
Hopeless- definition of worthless, but I'm not sure if mafia would actually be comfortable joining an active thread to contribute naught but dank memes.
onegu- "So I am debating on if I want to try this game or just troll..." as a player who has been absolutely shit and lazy as both mafia and town I'm well aware of the terrible impact such a player can have on a game. If they are not lynched quickly they become a huge distraction that cant particularly be read into cause they're shit and lazy. Mafia players can and have used the whole "hes so bad, there's no way hes mafia" meta plenty so if Onegu insists on being scummy then we should oblige him provided there isn't a better alternative.
People I'm mixed on
Bh: His original Rng post set me off a bit, but without writing another wot I'll just say that I liked the answers he gave to the questions I asked. If necessary I'll elaborate but for now lets just say his response felt very honest and off the cuff. His defense of Yam could be scummy, if Yam is town Bh might just be setting up for his flip in a very non committal way(asking for time as opposed to outright defending him), but trying to clear space for a townie so that they can talk freely doesnt strike me as bads, unless he thinks yamato plays worse when hes not under pressure / : they could be scumm bros but that would be a bit obvious no?
Chrom: Liked his posts on Ritoky though I still think hes totally wrong. town players have often found that kind of thing (tells early game) scummy, it's happened to me several times before. Reads early game are rarely things of beauty for our hats are often quite puny. An aggressive read like that can also backfire huge, concrete accusations are a great way for mafia to get unnecessary spotlight thrown onto them. So yeah, methinks chroms wrong but not scum. Though he may just be throwing together a convincing tunnel on a fairly inactive player.
The thing where Chrom went back and drew a connection with the picture feels very townie to me though, reminds me of my own happy tunnels, but I doubt the picture actually means much (would be a tad obvious if it did)
Glowing bear- not sure about him, Vivax seems like a weird target for mafia to push but they might not have a really good selection of schlubs to frame. Fun note, Bh, chrom and GB all clearing room for Yamato when he hasn't done much at all? Coincidence? Mabs, mabs not.
Not much else to report, Marv probs town? Someone said(bh I thunk) he'd be pretty shit if hes maf and he doesn't seems shitty so hurrah I suppose.
So no thoughts on rayn then? Cause he grilled you a fair amount, and despite that, all you said about him was: On October 22 2015 08:17 gumshoe wrote:
Rayns a big meanie, nothings changed. On October 22 2015 08:59 gumshoe wrote:
your a meanie and everyone else except chrome is not particularly notable.
In response to all the grilling, etc. So what's the deal gumshoe? Rayn attacks you and you mostly just call him mean, you don't comment on anything he has to say, any of his reads (other than directly related to your statements) and on your list post, he doesn't show up, not even as mixed. You commented on the nature of the rng lynch on rayn (saying it was daring, etc) but you didn't actually comment about rayn himself. Are you avoiding talking about rayn? Let's hear a stance from you on this. I commented just now on Rayn, but if you want a follow up, Rayn is consistently aggressive towards me as town or scum, but he backed off which is usually what town rayn does when I say the magic words hes looking for. The one time he was scum he just kept going after me till I dead / : but I dont claim to be able to read him very well. Hes aggressive as town, and ever so slightly more aggressive as scum. Time should tell what he actually is / : so for now I'm dumping him the yamato camp of -give it a day out in the sun. Btw I cant tell if your actually for reals about Rayn or just pushing the RNG XD guess its both?
Thanks for the input! So for you, you'd expect that scum rayn would tunnel you into the ground, whereas town rayn wouldn't do this, but this meta read is a soft read?
At this point in time I feel like it's more important to gather information about rayn and learn about what people think of him and why people are irrationally townreading him when he was clearly RNGed than it is to disambiguate the motivations for my scumread on him 
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 23 2015 04:58 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 04:55 Blazinghand wrote:On October 23 2015 04:48 gumshoe wrote:On October 23 2015 04:42 Blazinghand wrote:On October 23 2015 04:38 gumshoe wrote:
People I'm willing to lynch today.
Xata- as said before, looks like hes posting alot but isnt actually saying much of substance, worse yet he talked alot about stuff that didnt really matter at all (simulating a true rng lynch, trolling rayn, how he waffles days one me) but yeah he hasnt come back yet so probs need to hear more.
Hopeless- definition of worthless, but I'm not sure if mafia would actually be comfortable joining an active thread to contribute naught but dank memes.
onegu- "So I am debating on if I want to try this game or just troll..." as a player who has been absolutely shit and lazy as both mafia and town I'm well aware of the terrible impact such a player can have on a game. If they are not lynched quickly they become a huge distraction that cant particularly be read into cause they're shit and lazy. Mafia players can and have used the whole "hes so bad, there's no way hes mafia" meta plenty so if Onegu insists on being scummy then we should oblige him provided there isn't a better alternative.
People I'm mixed on
Bh: His original Rng post set me off a bit, but without writing another wot I'll just say that I liked the answers he gave to the questions I asked. If necessary I'll elaborate but for now lets just say his response felt very honest and off the cuff. His defense of Yam could be scummy, if Yam is town Bh might just be setting up for his flip in a very non committal way(asking for time as opposed to outright defending him), but trying to clear space for a townie so that they can talk freely doesnt strike me as bads, unless he thinks yamato plays worse when hes not under pressure / : they could be scumm bros but that would be a bit obvious no?
Chrom: Liked his posts on Ritoky though I still think hes totally wrong. town players have often found that kind of thing (tells early game) scummy, it's happened to me several times before. Reads early game are rarely things of beauty for our hats are often quite puny. An aggressive read like that can also backfire huge, concrete accusations are a great way for mafia to get unnecessary spotlight thrown onto them. So yeah, methinks chroms wrong but not scum. Though he may just be throwing together a convincing tunnel on a fairly inactive player.
The thing where Chrom went back and drew a connection with the picture feels very townie to me though, reminds me of my own happy tunnels, but I doubt the picture actually means much (would be a tad obvious if it did)
Glowing bear- not sure about him, Vivax seems like a weird target for mafia to push but they might not have a really good selection of schlubs to frame. Fun note, Bh, chrom and GB all clearing room for Yamato when he hasn't done much at all? Coincidence? Mabs, mabs not.
Not much else to report, Marv probs town? Someone said(bh I thunk) he'd be pretty shit if hes maf and he doesn't seems shitty so hurrah I suppose.
So no thoughts on rayn then? Cause he grilled you a fair amount, and despite that, all you said about him was: On October 22 2015 08:17 gumshoe wrote:
Rayns a big meanie, nothings changed. On October 22 2015 08:59 gumshoe wrote:
your a meanie and everyone else except chrome is not particularly notable.
In response to all the grilling, etc. So what's the deal gumshoe? Rayn attacks you and you mostly just call him mean, you don't comment on anything he has to say, any of his reads (other than directly related to your statements) and on your list post, he doesn't show up, not even as mixed. You commented on the nature of the rng lynch on rayn (saying it was daring, etc) but you didn't actually comment about rayn himself. Are you avoiding talking about rayn? Let's hear a stance from you on this. I commented just now on Rayn, but if you want a follow up, Rayn is consistently aggressive towards me as town or scum, but he backed off which is usually what town rayn does when I say the magic words hes looking for. The one time he was scum he just kept going after me till I dead / : but I dont claim to be able to read him very well. Hes aggressive as town, and ever so slightly more aggressive as scum. Time should tell what he actually is / : so for now I'm dumping him the yamato camp of -give it a day out in the sun. Btw I cant tell if your actually for reals about Rayn or just pushing the RNG XD guess its both? Thanks for the input! So for you, you'd expect that scum rayn would tunnel you into the ground, whereas town rayn wouldn't do this, but this meta read is a soft read? At this point in time I feel like it's more important to gather information about rayn and learn about what people think of him and why people are irrationally townreading him when he was clearly RNGed than it is to disambiguate the motivations for my scumread on him oks : P how do you feel about xatalos and chrom? I would ask you about onegu and hopeless but theres not much there to pick apart -_-.
Chromatically opens up just with questions. "Why do you think X", "What do you think of Y", etc. After making these, he comes out against ritoky with this argument:
On October 22 2015 07:04 Chromatically wrote:
I don't like ritoky so far. The stuff ritoky is saying to me is more of a "textbook" mafia tell that ends up not being very relevant in an actual game, coupled with the fact that he used it to jump on an easy target early on. From a mafia perspective, it would be easy to jump into the thread and give a "read" on someone like gumshoe based on a tell.
He laters adds Hopeless1der for awkwardness and when he calls out ritoky http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=25000070
he does it with some pretty reasonable-sounding arguments, but these arguments are actually flawed. He says scum won't sheep and will actually try to stick out, which in general is NOT how scum act. Yes, scum don't want to appear OBVIOUSLY Sheeping, but scum will generally try to appear "middle of the herd" rather than following the herd. Chromatically being wrong about this though doesn't make him scum, it just makes him wrong. His seeming misunderstadning of ritoky's (admittedly poorly laid out / formatted) argument about my usage of RNG is actually more suspicous. IF he actually clicked the links, he'd see me RNGing in each of those games. In fact, for trying to figure out when I RNG, ritoky is almost certainly town. If he's scum, he could just be like "BH using rng is stupid, we should lynch him for being stupid", or, if rayn was somehow town, he could say "RNG is great let's lynch rayn"
This isn't what riotky did. He saw me using RNG, then said to himself, "hmm, I'm going to do research. How does Blazinghand's decision to do RNG tell me about his alignment? Let's see when he's used this in the past"-- to react to this by trying to use it as a tool to determine my alignment, this almost certainly makes ritoky town.
Chromatically doesn't see this, which means he's not trying to get in ritoky's head, or maybe isn't capable of doing so? In any case, Chromatically mostly comes off as good-natured but wrong rather than baltantly scummy. If he's scum, he won't come out and spew incorrect theories about how to make scumreads, not when it would draw attention to him. Chromatically is not on my lynch list today
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 23 2015 05:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How i have to decide if you just said that terrible thing as town or mafia...
I am a bit puzzled how could you actually believe Blazinghand would not do that as mafia.
rayn knows as well as anyone that I hold nothing back as mafia. yes, RNG is literally pro-town, and so it's worse for me to use it as mafia, since it would hurt my team, but... I know people think this. I know this to be true. So as scum, I could use it and be like "hey guys, I'm using a pro-town strat, I must be town". RNG in and of itself is not hard evidence I'm town. Instead, pay attention to what I do with it.
On October 23 2015 05:08 Xatalos wrote:
I kind of liked Chromatically's posts after he came back. Mostly the fact that he seemed to be... thinking of reasons for people to be scummy/not, then landing on reads, rather than naming reads and then backing them up... Somehow the flow of his posts felt decent in the recent pages.
I just wonder a bit what happened after the "reading on Xatalos's meta" bit? Did I miss something?
eh, his reasoning on yamato seems very week and echoey. I liked it better when he was being wrong about ritoky. He was bringing his A-game, such as it is, for that.
On October 23 2015 05:11 Onegu wrote:
My RNG sheep is...
GlowingBear.
GlowingBear my vote is yours!!!
this is not how you do RNg, this isn't even close to how you do RNG. You are a disgrace to RNG, you have forgotten the face of your father.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 23 2015 05:18 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 05:12 Blazinghand wrote:On October 23 2015 04:58 gumshoe wrote:On October 23 2015 04:55 Blazinghand wrote:On October 23 2015 04:48 gumshoe wrote:On October 23 2015 04:42 Blazinghand wrote:On October 23 2015 04:38 gumshoe wrote:
People I'm willing to lynch today.
Xata- as said before, looks like hes posting alot but isnt actually saying much of substance, worse yet he talked alot about stuff that didnt really matter at all (simulating a true rng lynch, trolling rayn, how he waffles days one me) but yeah he hasnt come back yet so probs need to hear more.
Hopeless- definition of worthless, but I'm not sure if mafia would actually be comfortable joining an active thread to contribute naught but dank memes.
onegu- "So I am debating on if I want to try this game or just troll..." as a player who has been absolutely shit and lazy as both mafia and town I'm well aware of the terrible impact such a player can have on a game. If they are not lynched quickly they become a huge distraction that cant particularly be read into cause they're shit and lazy. Mafia players can and have used the whole "hes so bad, there's no way hes mafia" meta plenty so if Onegu insists on being scummy then we should oblige him provided there isn't a better alternative.
People I'm mixed on
Bh: His original Rng post set me off a bit, but without writing another wot I'll just say that I liked the answers he gave to the questions I asked. If necessary I'll elaborate but for now lets just say his response felt very honest and off the cuff. His defense of Yam could be scummy, if Yam is town Bh might just be setting up for his flip in a very non committal way(asking for time as opposed to outright defending him), but trying to clear space for a townie so that they can talk freely doesnt strike me as bads, unless he thinks yamato plays worse when hes not under pressure / : they could be scumm bros but that would be a bit obvious no?
Chrom: Liked his posts on Ritoky though I still think hes totally wrong. town players have often found that kind of thing (tells early game) scummy, it's happened to me several times before. Reads early game are rarely things of beauty for our hats are often quite puny. An aggressive read like that can also backfire huge, concrete accusations are a great way for mafia to get unnecessary spotlight thrown onto them. So yeah, methinks chroms wrong but not scum. Though he may just be throwing together a convincing tunnel on a fairly inactive player.
The thing where Chrom went back and drew a connection with the picture feels very townie to me though, reminds me of my own happy tunnels, but I doubt the picture actually means much (would be a tad obvious if it did)
Glowing bear- not sure about him, Vivax seems like a weird target for mafia to push but they might not have a really good selection of schlubs to frame. Fun note, Bh, chrom and GB all clearing room for Yamato when he hasn't done much at all? Coincidence? Mabs, mabs not.
Not much else to report, Marv probs town? Someone said(bh I thunk) he'd be pretty shit if hes maf and he doesn't seems shitty so hurrah I suppose.
So no thoughts on rayn then? Cause he grilled you a fair amount, and despite that, all you said about him was: On October 22 2015 08:17 gumshoe wrote:
Rayns a big meanie, nothings changed. On October 22 2015 08:59 gumshoe wrote:
your a meanie and everyone else except chrome is not particularly notable.
In response to all the grilling, etc. So what's the deal gumshoe? Rayn attacks you and you mostly just call him mean, you don't comment on anything he has to say, any of his reads (other than directly related to your statements) and on your list post, he doesn't show up, not even as mixed. You commented on the nature of the rng lynch on rayn (saying it was daring, etc) but you didn't actually comment about rayn himself. Are you avoiding talking about rayn? Let's hear a stance from you on this. I commented just now on Rayn, but if you want a follow up, Rayn is consistently aggressive towards me as town or scum, but he backed off which is usually what town rayn does when I say the magic words hes looking for. The one time he was scum he just kept going after me till I dead / : but I dont claim to be able to read him very well. Hes aggressive as town, and ever so slightly more aggressive as scum. Time should tell what he actually is / : so for now I'm dumping him the yamato camp of -give it a day out in the sun. Btw I cant tell if your actually for reals about Rayn or just pushing the RNG XD guess its both? Thanks for the input! So for you, you'd expect that scum rayn would tunnel you into the ground, whereas town rayn wouldn't do this, but this meta read is a soft read? At this point in time I feel like it's more important to gather information about rayn and learn about what people think of him and why people are irrationally townreading him when he was clearly RNGed than it is to disambiguate the motivations for my scumread on him oks : P how do you feel about xatalos and chrom? I would ask you about onegu and hopeless but theres not much there to pick apart -_-. Chromatically opens up just with questions. "Why do you think X", "What do you think of Y", etc. After making these, he comes out against ritoky with this argument: On October 22 2015 07:04 Chromatically wrote:
I don't like ritoky so far. The stuff ritoky is saying to me is more of a "textbook" mafia tell that ends up not being very relevant in an actual game, coupled with the fact that he used it to jump on an easy target early on. From a mafia perspective, it would be easy to jump into the thread and give a "read" on someone like gumshoe based on a tell. He laters adds Hopeless1der for awkwardness and when he calls out ritoky http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=25000070he does it with some pretty reasonable-sounding arguments, but these arguments are actually flawed. He says scum won't sheep and will actually try to stick out, which in general is NOT how scum act. Yes, scum don't want to appear OBVIOUSLY Sheeping, but scum will generally try to appear "middle of the herd" rather than following the herd. Chromatically being wrong about this though doesn't make him scum, it just makes him wrong. His seeming misunderstadning of ritoky's (admittedly poorly laid out / formatted) argument about my usage of RNG is actually more suspicous. IF he actually clicked the links, he'd see me RNGing in each of those games. In fact, for trying to figure out when I RNG, ritoky is almost certainly town. If he's scum, he could just be like "BH using rng is stupid, we should lynch him for being stupid", or, if rayn was somehow town, he could say "RNG is great let's lynch rayn" This isn't what riotky did. He saw me using RNG, then said to himself, "hmm, I'm going to do research. How does Blazinghand's decision to do RNG tell me about his alignment? Let's see when he's used this in the past"-- to react to this by trying to use it as a tool to determine my alignment, this almost certainly makes ritoky town. Chromatically doesn't see this, which means he's not trying to get in ritoky's head, or maybe isn't capable of doing so? In any case, Chromatically mostly comes off as good-natured but wrong rather than baltantly scummy. If he's scum, he won't come out and spew incorrect theories about how to make scumreads, not when it would draw attention to him. Chromatically is not on my lynch list today Yeah, I like that ritoky part. It's certainly a townie reaction to dig your game history for RNG-related things to think about your alignment.
Yeah there's no way I'm lynching ritoky unless he goes way downhill. Like, wow, someone actually went and found links and stuff. His presentation gets a D- since he could have like said "Blazinghand has played in the following games and RNGed this many times and these were his alignments" but his research gets an A, and it shows an underlying thought process that almost certainly comes from town.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 23 2015 05:21 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 05:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 23 2015 05:13 Onegu wrote:
Also rayn why do I get the feeling you going after BH is just because his RNG landed on you. Not sure if that makes you town or scum at this point but dont worry I will figure you out in the next 12 hours. I want to lynch you because you refuse to play the game. If you continue to do that i want to lynch you even more. I came here to play mafia, not to play some stupid rng kids game. At least Blazinghand seems to be starting to play,... Oh rayn that doesnt work with me. Im not refuseing to play the game. Just refusing to play how you think it should be played. I will still catch the scummers, but my way with my gut and then just tell you who to vote. And when I do tell you who to vote you should vote them as my gut is so much more right then when I acutally think about things.
Couid you possibly rephrase this? I'm having trouble getting what you're getting at here. You're just following GB... which you claim to have RNGed.
please advise
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 23 2015 05:22 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 05:20 Blazinghand wrote:On October 23 2015 05:18 Xatalos wrote:On October 23 2015 05:12 Blazinghand wrote:On October 23 2015 04:58 gumshoe wrote:On October 23 2015 04:55 Blazinghand wrote:On October 23 2015 04:48 gumshoe wrote:On October 23 2015 04:42 Blazinghand wrote:On October 23 2015 04:38 gumshoe wrote:
People I'm willing to lynch today.
Xata- as said before, looks like hes posting alot but isnt actually saying much of substance, worse yet he talked alot about stuff that didnt really matter at all (simulating a true rng lynch, trolling rayn, how he waffles days one me) but yeah he hasnt come back yet so probs need to hear more.
Hopeless- definition of worthless, but I'm not sure if mafia would actually be comfortable joining an active thread to contribute naught but dank memes.
onegu- "So I am debating on if I want to try this game or just troll..." as a player who has been absolutely shit and lazy as both mafia and town I'm well aware of the terrible impact such a player can have on a game. If they are not lynched quickly they become a huge distraction that cant particularly be read into cause they're shit and lazy. Mafia players can and have used the whole "hes so bad, there's no way hes mafia" meta plenty so if Onegu insists on being scummy then we should oblige him provided there isn't a better alternative.
People I'm mixed on
Bh: His original Rng post set me off a bit, but without writing another wot I'll just say that I liked the answers he gave to the questions I asked. If necessary I'll elaborate but for now lets just say his response felt very honest and off the cuff. His defense of Yam could be scummy, if Yam is town Bh might just be setting up for his flip in a very non committal way(asking for time as opposed to outright defending him), but trying to clear space for a townie so that they can talk freely doesnt strike me as bads, unless he thinks yamato plays worse when hes not under pressure / : they could be scumm bros but that would be a bit obvious no?
Chrom: Liked his posts on Ritoky though I still think hes totally wrong. town players have often found that kind of thing (tells early game) scummy, it's happened to me several times before. Reads early game are rarely things of beauty for our hats are often quite puny. An aggressive read like that can also backfire huge, concrete accusations are a great way for mafia to get unnecessary spotlight thrown onto them. So yeah, methinks chroms wrong but not scum. Though he may just be throwing together a convincing tunnel on a fairly inactive player.
The thing where Chrom went back and drew a connection with the picture feels very townie to me though, reminds me of my own happy tunnels, but I doubt the picture actually means much (would be a tad obvious if it did)
Glowing bear- not sure about him, Vivax seems like a weird target for mafia to push but they might not have a really good selection of schlubs to frame. Fun note, Bh, chrom and GB all clearing room for Yamato when he hasn't done much at all? Coincidence? Mabs, mabs not.
Not much else to report, Marv probs town? Someone said(bh I thunk) he'd be pretty shit if hes maf and he doesn't seems shitty so hurrah I suppose.
So no thoughts on rayn then? Cause he grilled you a fair amount, and despite that, all you said about him was: On October 22 2015 08:17 gumshoe wrote:
Rayns a big meanie, nothings changed. On October 22 2015 08:59 gumshoe wrote:
your a meanie and everyone else except chrome is not particularly notable.
In response to all the grilling, etc. So what's the deal gumshoe? Rayn attacks you and you mostly just call him mean, you don't comment on anything he has to say, any of his reads (other than directly related to your statements) and on your list post, he doesn't show up, not even as mixed. You commented on the nature of the rng lynch on rayn (saying it was daring, etc) but you didn't actually comment about rayn himself. Are you avoiding talking about rayn? Let's hear a stance from you on this. I commented just now on Rayn, but if you want a follow up, Rayn is consistently aggressive towards me as town or scum, but he backed off which is usually what town rayn does when I say the magic words hes looking for. The one time he was scum he just kept going after me till I dead / : but I dont claim to be able to read him very well. Hes aggressive as town, and ever so slightly more aggressive as scum. Time should tell what he actually is / : so for now I'm dumping him the yamato camp of -give it a day out in the sun. Btw I cant tell if your actually for reals about Rayn or just pushing the RNG XD guess its both? Thanks for the input! So for you, you'd expect that scum rayn would tunnel you into the ground, whereas town rayn wouldn't do this, but this meta read is a soft read? At this point in time I feel like it's more important to gather information about rayn and learn about what people think of him and why people are irrationally townreading him when he was clearly RNGed than it is to disambiguate the motivations for my scumread on him oks : P how do you feel about xatalos and chrom? I would ask you about onegu and hopeless but theres not much there to pick apart -_-. Chromatically opens up just with questions. "Why do you think X", "What do you think of Y", etc. After making these, he comes out against ritoky with this argument: On October 22 2015 07:04 Chromatically wrote:
I don't like ritoky so far. The stuff ritoky is saying to me is more of a "textbook" mafia tell that ends up not being very relevant in an actual game, coupled with the fact that he used it to jump on an easy target early on. From a mafia perspective, it would be easy to jump into the thread and give a "read" on someone like gumshoe based on a tell. He laters adds Hopeless1der for awkwardness and when he calls out ritoky http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=25000070he does it with some pretty reasonable-sounding arguments, but these arguments are actually flawed. He says scum won't sheep and will actually try to stick out, which in general is NOT how scum act. Yes, scum don't want to appear OBVIOUSLY Sheeping, but scum will generally try to appear "middle of the herd" rather than following the herd. Chromatically being wrong about this though doesn't make him scum, it just makes him wrong. His seeming misunderstadning of ritoky's (admittedly poorly laid out / formatted) argument about my usage of RNG is actually more suspicous. IF he actually clicked the links, he'd see me RNGing in each of those games. In fact, for trying to figure out when I RNG, ritoky is almost certainly town. If he's scum, he could just be like "BH using rng is stupid, we should lynch him for being stupid", or, if rayn was somehow town, he could say "RNG is great let's lynch rayn" This isn't what riotky did. He saw me using RNG, then said to himself, "hmm, I'm going to do research. How does Blazinghand's decision to do RNG tell me about his alignment? Let's see when he's used this in the past"-- to react to this by trying to use it as a tool to determine my alignment, this almost certainly makes ritoky town. Chromatically doesn't see this, which means he's not trying to get in ritoky's head, or maybe isn't capable of doing so? In any case, Chromatically mostly comes off as good-natured but wrong rather than baltantly scummy. If he's scum, he won't come out and spew incorrect theories about how to make scumreads, not when it would draw attention to him. Chromatically is not on my lynch list today Yeah, I like that ritoky part. It's certainly a townie reaction to dig your game history for RNG-related things to think about your alignment. Yeah there's no way I'm lynching ritoky unless he goes way downhill. Like, wow, someone actually went and found links and stuff. His presentation gets a D- since he could have like said "Blazinghand has played in the following games and RNGed this many times and these were his alignments" but his research gets an A, and it shows an underlying thought process that almost certainly comes from town. But didnt his links just go to your filter in games and not actually point things out lol.
The exact posts in question:
On October 22 2015 07:08 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 07:05 Xatalos wrote:Not quite sure what the bolded means? generally speaking he doesn't rng as mafia, but i wouldn't put it past him to break meta.
So here's what's going on. ritoky links my town games, and if you actually click through, it's noteworthy that as town I often immediately RNG at game start. Then he links my recent scum games, and there are no RNGs. He notes "I wouldn't put it past him to break meta" which is also a relevant piece of information. Maybe this makes sense to me becasue it's about me, but this immediately struck me as thoughtful and the kind of thing someone would say when they're trying to figure me out. Nobody else bothered to research me, but ritoky, he wan'ted to know, you see? He wanted to KNOW. he was trying to figure me otu. That's what town does
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 23 2015 05:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't understand the reads on ritoky. He literally said:
"BH is town until he does something egregious enough to be considered not town."
"generally speaking he doesn't rng as mafia, but i wouldn't put it past him to break meta."
So what? He townreads Blazinghand for something he then says, in the next post, is not a reason to townread Blazinghand`!!?
He makes a perfectly reasonable set of statements.
"Blazinghand has a meta of using RNG as town"
"...however, this doesn't mean we should automatically assume BH is town. BH is a tricky fucker, and is notoriously a tricky fucker. He has done all kinds of things as scum that nobody thought scum would do, like pretend to get dumped, be depressed, death in teh family, and so on. He will do anything as scum to win, he's so sexy and good at this game. BH, you are so cool. This is known by all people"
These are both reasonabl eand true statements
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 23 2015 05:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is absolutely nothing alignment indicative in your rng Blazinghand, you know it, everyone should know it. "Figuring out" something regarding it is a waste of time. On October 23 2015 05:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 05:28 Blazinghand wrote:On October 23 2015 05:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't understand the reads on ritoky. He literally said:
"BH is town until he does something egregious enough to be considered not town."
"generally speaking he doesn't rng as mafia, but i wouldn't put it past him to break meta."
So what? He townreads Blazinghand for something he then says, in the next post, is not a reason to townread Blazinghand`!!? He makes a perfectly reasonable set of statements. "Blazinghand has a meta of using RNG as town" "...however, this doesn't mean we should automatically assume BH is town. BH is a tricky fucker, and is notoriously a tricky fucker. He has done all kinds of things as scum that nobody thought scum would do, like pretend to get dumped, be depressed, death in teh family, and so on. He will do anything as scum to win, he's so sexy and good at this game. BH, you are so cool. This is known by all people" These are both reasonabl eand true statements yes and STILL he assumes you are town as per his posts. see? It doesn't make any sense.
Ok but part of what's going on here also is not everyone has seen firsthand what I'm capable of. Most people hear a story or two and think "oh, that BH guy must be pretty decent. He'll do anything to win. I guess I better count this well-known-to-BH meta evidence less strongly". Not everyone is like you, not everyone has seen the true darkness and depravity I am willing to perpetrate to win as scum. I've literally made peopel feel IRL feelings for me, feel bad, feel hurt, feel worried, want to reach out to me out-of-game, just to not get lynched for one day as scum. I've sunk to depths that are BEYOND most people's comprehensions. You know me, rayn. You know not to trust RNG as a town-tell. PEople hear that, though, and they think "okay, don't trust it AS MUCH as I normally would", because they don't KNOW. They ahven't gazed into the abyss. They are still sane.
They can still be saved.
You, though... you've seen what I'm capable of, and perhaps have forgotten what it is like to be normal, to not know me as you do
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 23 2015 05:29 Onegu wrote:
Does rayn normally act this way when BH rng's his vote or is this just because the RnG landed on him...
He's usually not as aggressive, but historically he makes posts like:
On February 14 2015 17:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Blazinghand, let's be honest:
Are you forging that read on vayne? The one besides rng?
On February 15 2015 00:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Are people really this dumb?
geez i guess BH was right.
RAYN: BH ARE YOU FORGING THE READ ON VAYNE BESIDES RNG?
BH: OF COURSE I AM RAYN!
......
On February 17 2015 10:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
As a veteran how do you twist a RNG lynch into anything else than an RNG?
In this game, rayn Vayne and I were all townies, of course
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 23 2015 05:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I fail to see how i am being "aggressive" here, so could you explain BH?
well, not towards me. You're actually being a little more gentle with me, compared to normal. Normally I'd expect you to end up TRing ritoky for that on your own. Maybe it's been some time since we played together, or my edge is getting dull, but I recall you being pretty good at noticing people's motivations.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
Wait does rayn actually want to lynch me? I'm like P sure he hasn't voted me or tried to call me scum but I might have missed it
brb dinner
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On October 23 2015 05:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 05:39 Blazinghand wrote:On October 23 2015 05:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I fail to see how i am being "aggressive" here, so could you explain BH? well, not towards me. You're actually being a little more gentle with me, compared to normal. Normally I'd expect you to end up TRing ritoky for that on your own. Maybe it's been some time since we played together, or my edge is getting dull, but I recall you being pretty good at noticing people's motivations. ritoky is a really had to read for me and i don't think he has said much of anything that could be in my opinion considered townie. Maybe it's jsut like you say and other people do not know you as well as i do (and what you can / cannot do as mafia), but still... it's really hard for me to believe both of Xatalos and ritoky actually believe you are town for your actions regarding the rng lynch. I just don't fucking buy it.
When I get back I'll go through game history and see if they've played with me before during one of my many betrayals. That will decide this issue one way or another.
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EPT
