So... Based on this I'm going to go ahead and look at everyone votes and reads who were on Bara.
raynpelikoneet - a bit weird kus of his Vote post being drop-in and the read evolving based on it... probably town due to the solid push... tinfoil hat says keep eyes on him.
+ Show Spoiler +Dropped into the game with his Vote and a bunch of town reads. On July 24 2015 16:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Damdred town.
Noobking town.
Ruxxar town.
Moosy town.
Dis-something guy town.
Barakos mafia.
##vote Barakos Posts 2 questions towards Bara, which seemed like leading questions to me kinda like Bara being scum was a fordrawn conclusion. On July 24 2015 18:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So Barakos claims he is scummy.
Barakos why would you make intentionally scummy posts as town? On July 24 2015 22:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Barakos i would like you to elaborate onto your read on Barakos.
Why is the post you have been called out for scummy? Begins to push Bara as scum pretty hard after these posts On July 25 2015 03:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Do you guys think Barakos is really reaction testing people when he specifically points a finger on me, when my reaction is to vote for him he has nothing to say about it? On July 25 2015 03:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2015 03:17 Rels wrote:On July 25 2015 03:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Do you guys think Barakos is really reaction testing people when he specifically points a finger on me, when my reaction is to vote for him he has nothing to say about it? No I think he's likely scum. But I gave him until tomorrow to post more stuff and convince me. Why is that? He is clearly lying since he should be interested in what i said about him: - He kinda called me mafia as a part of his "reaction test" - He literally should expect a reaction (that results in a read or questions) from me - Three people called him mafia, me, you and Damdred - He gives a TOWNREAD on you two (yeah like if he is town why the fuck would you and Damdred be TOWN for calling out scummy stuff that a townie did? like if i was mafia i would totally jump on that - there is no reason to give you a townread for it in the first place) yet he has NOTHING to say about me, who HE called out in the first place. yeah that dude is scum. On July 25 2015 03:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2015 03:43 Rels wrote:On July 25 2015 03:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 25 2015 03:31 Rels wrote:
Meh I will have to reread carefully but I'm pretty sure he said it was a reaction test for those playing in newbie X.
Okay let's imagine this is the case. None of those people have played with me. Why would he, if that was the case, EVER bring up my opening post (which was btw the first post in the game - it literally means nothing whatever i post unless i claim something) and later on say it was a PART of the reaction test? Unless he wants a reaction from me? People who haven't played with me cannot possibly know how i open up my games (if that even mattered; see above). Meh maybe. I think the argument of the reaction test being a lie is much stronger. Like there are three things, from strongest to weakest, why he is mafia: 1) I am certain, if that was a reaction test, he would have had a reaction to my reaction. Instead he has a reaction to you and Damdred's responds. 2) There is no reason he should townread anyone for scumreading him for doing scummy stuff. rofl, that's like a mafia heaven, you can make a LEGITMATE CASE ON A TOWNIE (assume you are mafia here - you see a townie pull off a fucking scummy post, why wouldn't you call them out for it?). People who do reaction tests do not think like this. 3) His read on disinformation The push was good, but dropping into the game with the vote on Bara combined with the buildup in his read makes this look weird to me. It's WIFOM as hell, but I could totally see this as a bus.
disformation - spewed town by Bara. Should have already been largely townread.
+ Show Spoiler +responded to the post that got Bara caught with general fluff and agreeance early read following that: barakos: hmmm... lets call it null for now. Want to see more from him. Seemed genuinely confused and interested in Bara's read on him + Show Spoiler +On July 25 2015 03:10 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2015 02:46 disformation wrote:On July 24 2015 18:49 Barakos wrote:[...] What I want to point out is disformations behavior. He has several posts (see spoilers below), saying he has shadowed player X in that game and player Y in this game and will reread all those games to get a read on ruxxar because his tone is so completely different from the other games. But when I come into the thread with fluff (something I never did in NSM X, where he played with me for the entire game), he doesn't pick it up at all and sees no difference in my behavior, even though he claims to be looking for meta-hints and stuff like that. The only thing he did was putting me to null and saying he wants to see more of me. This inconsistency makes me put him in the scum-corner for now. + Show Spoiler +On July 24 2015 08:21 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 08:13 n00bKing wrote:On July 24 2015 08:06 disformation wrote:Eh, I like this style/tone a lot more than the one he had in his two previous games.  Meaning Himalayas and Gaiden, where he was scum? I didn't play in either of those games. How would you summarize his style/tone in them? Yes, I was shadowing a town player (Onegu in Himalayas and Half the Sky in Gaiden). Both games were pretty long, ruxXar's filters are 13 and 25 pages respectively so it is not that easy to summarize. But what I can remember: while he is good at marking arguments and sounding logically his posts often sound preachy. I also remember disliking a bunch of his posts in Himalayas because he was pretty aggressive/pushy with them. Will possibly reread his filters from both games at a later stage of this game. On July 24 2015 08:34 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 08:18 ruXxar wrote:
Then I will be honored to be in your company.
Draw your pitch fork and stand by my side. Haven't even bothered to figure out where I put my pitchfork yet. But after shadowing a bunch of games where town lost, I believe a bit of scepticism to be very healthy.  Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 08:18 ruXxar wrote:
Together we will banish the non-believers known as scum.
Do not betray me or your faith will be sealed.
Stay true to the one belief you must keep in your heart and repeat this mantra in the darkest hours:
I am town. Do I smell a thinly veiled threat? Also currently skimming through your Himalayas for the posts I remember disliking. And I have to say that your play was pretty damn good. Like your interactions with HF for example. On July 24 2015 10:15 disformation wrote:
Going to bed. Hope I can sleep in this heat. -.-
Where I currently stand:
Breshke: Asking questions. Let us see what he does when he gets answers.
NocturneMage: Seems like an eager player trying to figure out how forum mafia works. Seems curious/inquisitive. town lean.
ruxXar: Basically opened up the thread with stuff to talk about. A lot of null stuff. Slight town as result.
n00bKing: did a few things for town cred. Unfortunately both(*) were super easy for mafia to do, too. So null.
barakos: hmmm... lets call it null for now. Want to see more from him.
Damdred: Just read his strong entry (his 2nd post). Like the post.
Also want to note that I shadowed town!Damdred in Holy Guardians Chapter 1 and he was mafia in Gaiden (where I shadowed town!HtS). So I might look into these two games later on. I remember his reads/thought progression to be very reasonable as town, so might pay extra attention to that. Town read as of now.
(*): a) asking me about ruxxars previous games. b) pointing out that I am unable to count.
PS: Also my 3rd game here. :D Okay, pointing out this inconsistency is fair enough. But I am quite confused as to why he gave me such a hard scumread for that... maybe to make sure I respond to this? Maybe he wanted to divert attention away from him, I think a few people called him scum just a page or two earlier? Anyway not a huge fan. Okay, why did I point out stuff with ruxXar and Damdred? Because I was sorta involved with them in two games each. I only "know" barakos from one game (NSM X). What do I remember barakos for from that game? - He was shot one night. N3 maybe?
- At one point I thought there might be scum between boxerfred and barakos.
- I had to look up his name a few times, because for some reason I always want to put an additional letter in there. Like barakdos.
And that's it... I think barakos and me had not much interaction/conversation in that game. So I have trouble remembering him. Don't remember much of Rels either, since he was shot super early. Remember having a hard town read on Rels, that is it. I remember a lot of the people I had interactions with or that were alive very long (boxerfred/sicklucker/27ninjabunnies/ticktock) and I remember Sulfurus, because I had a super wrong scum read on him. I remember Breshke because I was about to post a mad case on him and claimed cop. Then I looked at my case and realized all the things that bugged me made a lot of sense if he was cop. Since I remember so little of barakos maybe I should follow Rels question: On July 24 2015 18:29 Rels wrote:
Leaving to eat very soon. To the guy or girl reading this:
If you are ruxxar, rayn, moosy or a host I asked you a question and would very much like an answer.
If you played or read Newbie X, I would like to have your thoughts on Barakos' filter compared to Newbie X.
And whoever you are, I would like to have your thoughts about my post on NocturneMage. And read Barakos filter from NSM X again. xD Okay, reformating time, hope this is a bit clearer now:
Okay, pointing out this inconsistency is fair enough. But I am quite confused as to why he gave me such a hard scumread for that... maybe to make sure I respond to this? Maybe he wanted to divert attention away from him, I think a few people called him scum just a page or two earlier? Anyway not a huge fan. Okay, why did I point out stuff with ruxXar and Damdred? Because I was sorta involved with them in two games each. I only "know" barakos from one game (NSM X). Why did I not mention a lot of the other players I "know"?Because I have less information on them imo. For example I was in only one game with barakos. What do I remember barakos for from that game?- He was shot one night. N3 maybe?
- At one point I thought there might be scum between boxerfred and barakos.
- I had to look up his name a few times, because for some reason I always want to put an additional letter in there. Like barakdos.
And that's it... I think barakos and me had not much interaction/conversation in NSM X. So I have trouble remembering him. Don't remember much of Rels either, since he was shot super early. Remember having a hard town read on Rels, that is it. I remember a lot of the people I had interactions with or that were alive very long (boxerfred/sicklucker/27ninjabunnies/ticktock) and I remember Sulfurus, because I had a super wrong scum read on him. I remember Breshke because I was about to post a mad case on him but he claimed cop. Then I looked at my case and realized all the things that bugged me made a lot of sense if he was cop. Since I remember so little of barakos maybe I should follow Rels question: Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 18:29 Rels wrote:
Leaving to eat very soon. To the guy or girl reading this:
If you are ruxxar, rayn, moosy or a host I asked you a question and would very much like an answer.
If you played or read Newbie X, I would like to have your thoughts on Barakos' filter compared to Newbie X.
And whoever you are, I would like to have your thoughts about my post on NocturneMage. And read Barakos filter from NSM X again. xD eventually votes on Bara after much consideration + Show Spoiler +On July 25 2015 04:06 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2015 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 25 2015 03:23 disformation wrote:On July 25 2015 03:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
His post was scummy because he is scum. You sound pretty confident/convinced. Let me look at his filter for a moment. you don't even need to. you jsut need to look at the fact he SHOULD expect a reaction from me to his "reaction test". Yet he talks nothing about me after i VOTE for him. Like this is pretty straightforward. Hmm. + Show Spoiler +On July 24 2015 09:08 Barakos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 08:47 disformation wrote:On July 24 2015 08:41 ruXxar wrote:
I intentionally attempt to change my meta every game.
The ebb, and flow, the flavor, the topping, the innards.
Sometime it's just a sparkle on top, taking the edge off, a tone shift, an aggressive approach, a preachy approach.
Aggregation of information molded and grinded into the essence of simple axioms I can follow to improve my play and enjoy myself.
You only get as much out of the game as you put into it.
I need to engage in my own way.
Repetition grows stale, experimentation fosters newfound interest and pathways not previously considered.
My #1 goal is to have fun.
In my seeking of that goal I need to be flexible and formless.
Able to adapt and implement ideas, mix new and old, step out of my comfort zone to discover the the trails that do not necessarily lead to victory in the short run, but over time complements my play as a whole.
Fair enough. Might still take a look later on in the game. *shrugs* Might depend on how much of an easy/hard time I have reading you later I guess. So far only 4/13 players have posted. Bit of shame. Might go to bed soonish since I am having a bit of a headache. -.- Yeah... weather here in germany sucks... I've been feeling like shit the whole day... And then I come to reread and ruxxars style just gives me more headaches. -.- Dunno, what to make of it atm, last time someone used poetry in a game it confused the hell out of me and 2 of the 3 reads I got from it were utter bullshit, so for now, I'll not jump to any conclusions about ruxxar, based on that style, but would really appreciate it, if this changes sometime soon... Kinda strongly dislike rayn for coming in and making an alibi-post, that kinda reads like he won't be here for the rest of the dayphase... let's just hope, that's not the case and there will be more posts from him. Nocturne coming in and asking lots of questions seems kinda active. But a lot of his posts/ questions are targetet at other peoples opinion about the alignment of person x/y/z, without actually giving his own thoughts... Disformation - several posts... mostly about ruxxars other games and the difference in tone, also the only one, who openly likes ruxxars style... What I don't like, is that he defends the "bullshitting" in the start of the game. Granted, it's hard to start a conversation early on and you kind of have to do something, to get the thread going, (and you kinda have to give ruxxar credit for this - he created something, people can talk about) but encouraging him to keep this up the whole game seems kinda off to me. Noobking - totally top town for being able to count, how many people have posted, just to correct disformation! Says he dislikes ruxXar's style this game, but won't judge based on this style. But dislikes me for liking ruxXar's style? Super town read on n00bKing for something easy to point out. Buddying? Rels calls him out on some scummy things. rayn puts his vote on him. barakos is like "Haha reaction test". Calls Rels town and picks me as scum. Hm... actually I think he is misrepresenting me. I never said I would be looking for meta hints in general. I said I would be using some games I was shadowing ppl in to look for meta hints on just ruxXar and Damdred. Never mentioned any other games or meta hints in general. He also calls out my waffling in NSM X. Maybe he sees me as an easy misslynch? Or as an easy distraction? His conclusion is that I am scum. Seems even like a pretty strong read. But he doesn't vote for me? Waiting to see if he can get this wagon going? Then he picks out some stuff from NocturneMage ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/490503-newbie-student-mafia-xiii?page=13#259 ), who as a first timer could be an easy target as well, but doesn't even reach a conclusion. He likes the suspicion? Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 19:03 Barakos wrote:
[...]To me this looks like scum trying to find angles for a misslynch.
So while I don't like your case that much, I like the suspicion about NocturneMage. Like is NocturneMage scum or not? Yeah... overall I get the impression of scum testing the waters and/or trying to get rid of unwanted attention. ##vote Barakos
Breshke - kinda a weak sheep vote. Possible bus, Bre is being too lurky and uninvolved this game for me to townread him.
+ Show Spoiler +questions Bara about his comment about rayn's first post (no response) Then hops on the wagon On July 25 2015 09:49 Breshke wrote:
##Vote Barakos
Yeah i dont believe that post was a reaction test he was just trying to get out of a bad situation. Call me stupid but i didn't even think the original post was that bad.
Eh, seems like an ok sheep of the wagon timing makes sense as it was nearing 12 hours to EoD. Minor town points since I agreed with his statement about the "original post"
Sulfurus - Very likely scum bussing, very weak and weird rehash read on Bara. PoE/Auto stuff. MIA 3/4 of the Day.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 25 2015 07:52 Sulfurus wrote:I believe I have 'auto' now since in a 13 player game we get 6 lynches (not counting a mafa nk + vigi) and I found at least 7 town including myself. Here are the towns in order of approximate townyness Towns- raynpelikoneet
- Damdred
- Flexes
- Breshke
- ruXxar
- rels
And ofcourse lynches in order of aproximate scumyness Lynches- Barakos
- MoosyDoosy
- n00bKing
- NocturneMage
- TickTock
- disformation
I apologize to disformation for putting your name on the list; I think your probably town but I needed a sixth name. On July 25 2015 14:02 Sulfurus wrote:I'll start with my read on Barakos since it was the easiest to figure out, just look at this post. Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 09:08 Barakos wrote:On July 24 2015 08:47 disformation wrote:On July 24 2015 08:41 ruXxar wrote:
I intentionally attempt to change my meta every game.
The ebb, and flow, the flavor, the topping, the innards.
Sometime it's just a sparkle on top, taking the edge off, a tone shift, an aggressive approach, a preachy approach.
Aggregation of information molded and grinded into the essence of simple axioms I can follow to improve my play and enjoy myself.
You only get as much out of the game as you put into it.
I need to engage in my own way.
Repetition grows stale, experimentation fosters newfound interest and pathways not previously considered.
My #1 goal is to have fun.
In my seeking of that goal I need to be flexible and formless.
Able to adapt and implement ideas, mix new and old, step out of my comfort zone to discover the the trails that do not necessarily lead to victory in the short run, but over time complements my play as a whole.
Fair enough. Might still take a look later on in the game. *shrugs* Might depend on how much of an easy/hard time I have reading you later I guess. So far only 4/13 players have posted. Bit of shame. Might go to bed soonish since I am having a bit of a headache. -.- Yeah... weather here in germany sucks... I've been feeling like shit the whole day... And then I come to reread and ruxxars style just gives me more headaches. -.- Dunno, what to make of it atm, last time someone used poetry in a game it confused the hell out of me and 2 of the 3 reads I got from it were utter bullshit, so for now, I'll not jump to any conclusions about ruxxar, based on that style, but would really appreciate it, if this changes sometime soon... Kinda strongly dislike rayn for coming in and making an alibi-post, that kinda reads like he won't be here for the rest of the dayphase... let's just hope, that's not the case and there will be more posts from him. Nocturne coming in and asking lots of questions seems kinda active. But a lot of his posts/ questions are targetet at other peoples opinion about the alignment of person x/y/z, without actually giving his own thoughts... Disformation - several posts... mostly about ruxxars other games and the difference in tone, also the only one, who openly likes ruxxars style... What I don't like, is that he defends the "bullshitting" in the start of the game. Granted, it's hard to start a conversation early on and you kind of have to do something, to get the thread going, (and you kinda have to give ruxxar credit for this - he created something, people can talk about) but encouraging him to keep this up the whole game seems kinda off to me. Noobking - totally top town for being able to count, how many people have posted, just to correct disformation! At first I was very excited to see this since it has the same 'shape' as his posts from NSMX where he had nothing but good logic. However the actual content of the post has none of the strong conclusions that I associate with Barakos. It looks like it was written so people couldn't say he hasn't given reads instead of trying to catch mafia. Also please don't listen to his excuse about how that post was a 'trap' for NSMX people. He knows he messed up and he's trying to cover up.
Rels - totes town, multiple posts interacting with Bara that feel genuine, read evolves naturally.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 24 2015 18:00 Rels wrote:Like some other people in the thread, I also found Barakos super weird. Especially since like some guys also playing, I played my first game with him in Newbie X, and in that game he was very logical and straightforward in his posts. Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 07:11 Barakos wrote:
Hi guys!
Will be here, lurking aroung and posting in some hours... playing hero siege with a friend atm.
Fluff, very different from his first post in Newbie X where he was already analyzing disfo's filter. And this post is so unlike him I feel: Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 09:08 Barakos wrote:On July 24 2015 08:47 disformation wrote:On July 24 2015 08:41 ruXxar wrote:
I intentionally attempt to change my meta every game.
The ebb, and flow, the flavor, the topping, the innards.
Sometime it's just a sparkle on top, taking the edge off, a tone shift, an aggressive approach, a preachy approach.
Aggregation of information molded and grinded into the essence of simple axioms I can follow to improve my play and enjoy myself.
You only get as much out of the game as you put into it.
I need to engage in my own way.
Repetition grows stale, experimentation fosters newfound interest and pathways not previously considered.
My #1 goal is to have fun.
In my seeking of that goal I need to be flexible and formless.
Able to adapt and implement ideas, mix new and old, step out of my comfort zone to discover the the trails that do not necessarily lead to victory in the short run, but over time complements my play as a whole.
Fair enough. Might still take a look later on in the game. *shrugs* Might depend on how much of an easy/hard time I have reading you later I guess. So far only 4/13 players have posted. Bit of shame. Might go to bed soonish since I am having a bit of a headache. -.- Yeah... weather here in germany sucks... I've been feeling like shit the whole day... And then I come to reread and ruxxars style just gives me more headaches. -.- Dunno, what to make of it atm, last time someone used poetry in a game it confused the hell out of me and 2 of the 3 reads I got from it were utter bullshit, so for now, I'll not jump to any conclusions about ruxxar, based on that style, but would really appreciate it, if this changes sometime soon... Kinda strongly dislike rayn for coming in and making an alibi-post, that kinda reads like he won't be here for the rest of the dayphase... let's just hope, that's not the case and there will be more posts from him. Nocturne coming in and asking lots of questions seems kinda active. But a lot of his posts/ questions are targetet at other peoples opinion about the alignment of person x/y/z, without actually giving his own thoughts... Disformation - several posts... mostly about ruxxars other games and the difference in tone, also the only one, who openly likes ruxxars style... What I don't like, is that he defends the "bullshitting" in the start of the game. Granted, it's hard to start a conversation early on and you kind of have to do something, to get the thread going, (and you kinda have to give ruxxar credit for this - he created something, people can talk about) but encouraging him to keep this up the whole game seems kinda off to me. Noobking - totally top town for being able to count, how many people have posted, just to correct disformation! This post is not how I remember Barakos playing. It's just supposition without conclusions. And this part is super ironic: Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 09:08 Barakos wrote:
Kinda strongly dislike rayn for coming in and making an alibi-post, that kinda reads like he won't be here for the rest of the dayphase... let's just hope, that's not the case and there will be more posts from him.
Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 07:11 Barakos wrote:
Hi guys!
Will be here, lurking aroung and posting in some hours... playing hero siege with a friend atm.
LOL On July 24 2015 21:13 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 19:12 Barakos wrote:On July 24 2015 18:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So Barakos claims he is scummy.
Barakos why would you make intentionally scummy posts as town? Obviously to get reactions from people? And I even got some reactions, that gave me reads about Rels and disformation as I explained in my post... I expected to get called out on it by the people that played with me in NSM X, so call it a reactiontest, that Rels passed, whereas Tictock, Breshke and disformation failed. And to answer your next question, which will be, why I only called out disformation and not tictock and breshke as well: Breshke died N2, so he didn't play the whole game with me and tictock only came in, wrote some stuff about tarot and then left without leaving the impression of having read the thread, whereas disformation played the game till endgame. Rels picking up on this, even though he was lynched N1 in NSM X just shows how attentative he is when reading people. Alright I think this discussion ends here. I think you're likely to be scum for your first two posts. You claim that it was a reaction test and you will now play like a townie; but outside of commenting my case, you didn't do anything outside of defending yourself today. So for now my read of you is mafia lean, and no additionnal explanation on past posts will change that. I'll re-evaluate you at EOD. BTW: Doesn't work that way. =p
n00bKing - also totes town. Actually pretty scary how similar n00bs posts mimic my own thinking.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 25 2015 05:31 n00bKing wrote:More on the topic of Barakos: Show nested quote +On July 25 2015 03:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
He is clearly lying since he should be interested in what i said about him:
- He kinda called me mafia as a part of his "reaction test"
- He literally should expect a reaction (that results in a read or questions) from me
- Three people called him mafia, me, you and Damdred
- He gives a TOWNREAD on you two (yeah like if he is town why the fuck would you and Damdred be TOWN for calling out scummy stuff that a townie did? like if i was mafia i would totally jump on that - there is no reason to give you a townread for it in the first place) yet he has NOTHING to say about me, who HE called out in the first place. It is definitely possible that Barakos is scum. If he's scum, then I want you (rayn) to be successful in this attempt to get him lynched. But for you to get him lynched, your reasoning has to be sound, or Barakos can CORRECTLY point out the flaws in your arguments. So you need to be fair here, and try to get him lynched for things that ACTUALLY happened, and not just say whatever you think makes him look the worst. He didn't call you mafia in his reaction test. He said he disliked you for making an alibi post. And when someone quickly asked him point-blank about whether he meant that he just disliked the post in general, or if he thought the post was mafia-indicative, he said that he only disliked the post in general. Even so, I agree with you that he should expect a reaction from you. That doesn't mean that he's intending to gauge your reaction though. Your inclusion in the post could just be so that he can get reactions from other players, regarding what he's said about you. If they haven't played with you before, that's not an obstacle. They can still have an impression of what the post would mean from most players, even if they aren't sure of what it would mean from you specifically. If he was intending to gauge your reaction, it is possible that he is still doing so. This is a simple and straightforward explanation for why he would not have reacted to your reaction yet, and I don't get why you've overlooked it. As for why he would townread people for jumping all over his post (when you think it's something Mafia would definitely do) I can see a simple explanation for that too. Mafia might be wary of a trap/ruse. Town can just see a scummy post and say it's a scummy post. That's their job, so if they're just doing their job, they won't worry about the consequences. Mafia have a different job, and they have to balance "calling out a Town player for sounding scummy" (so that they can achieve mislynches) against the knowledge that if they can get the player lynched, they WILL flip Town. That's why scum players like to sheep arguments against Townies more than they like to MAKE arguments against Townies. It reduces accountability. So when Barakos (if he's Town) sees someone recklessly attack his post, he townreads them. There is a problem, though, with Barakos' explanation that he was only reaction-testing people he played with in Newbie X. Because although that would explain why he had nothing to say about you (rayn) it doesn't explain why he gave the townread to Damdred. Damdred was NOT in Newbie X. So if Barakos can use the reaction test to form an opinion on Damdred, he should be able to use it to form an opinion on you. I would want to see him try to explain this inconsistency. On July 25 2015 06:31 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2015 05:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
n00bking do you think it's more likely that Sulfurus will flip mafia than that Barakos will? Can't really say, I guess. Sulfurus seems to me like a good place for votes to go because: He plays little as Town, but barely plays at ALL as Scum, and that's exactly what we've seen here. In one game where he was Scum, he did almost nothing at the beginning of the game but attack me (specifically) without grounds, saying that he was the cop and had a redcheck on me. Here in this game he has done nothing but say that he thinks he's had an easy time differentiating my scum game and town game, when he's never even seen my scum game. It would be really odd to me for him to go down this road again, when it has already gotten him killed in another game. I don't know, how often do newbie scum players repeat the same mistakes that have gotten them lynched before? Barakos seems to me like a good place for votes to go because: Even though some of the arguments used against him look leaky to me, his attempts to combat them have been pretty feeble. I would expect Town Barakos to do a better job than this of defending himself. And to ALSO do a better job than this of pushing someone that would be a better lynch target than he is. Who does Barakos want to lynch today? I'm not sure I could even tell you without going and reading his filter again. Rels seems to me like a good place for votes to go because: His posts are actively scummy, and he has already been forced to retcon his story on two separate issues. I haven't seen Rels play as scum yet, so maybe he's just no good at it. If he's scum in this game, his teammates are probably not too happy with him in the QT right now. On July 26 2015 05:04 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +n00bKing wrote: I would expect Town Barakos to be able to give us better analysis on a preferred lynch target, and to do a better job of defending himself, based on prior examples of his Town play. If that doesn't happen, then he'll stay in the group of players (that also includes Sulfurus and Rels) that I would be perfectly happy to punt out of the game on Day 1. So yeah. All that stuff about him giving analysis on a better lynch target, and doing a better job of defending himself, obviously did not happen. One of the other things I was scumleaning him for (which I don't remember reading from anyone else, though I might have skimmed some of the longer cases on him, since I was already scumleaning him myself, and was waiting to see if he would come back and perform better to change my mind) was the appeal to emotion in that same post (the post that everyone hates). Appeal to emotion is a mafia tactic. He complains about the poor weather and feeling bad, and the headaches. So that he'll be a sympathetic figure in our subconscious, and not someone we want to kick out of the game right away before he can have any fun. I've seen scum players do this kind of thing in a few of the games I've been in (outside TL) and we also JUST saw JonnyLaw do it as scum in the Lost But Not Forgotten game. Any true-to-life excuse that they can use to get sympathy (without needing to lie about it) is a tough opportunity to pass up. My other arguments against Barakos feel like a re-hash, so I'll stop after just adding that one point. Since no one seems to want to help me pressure Rels... ##Unvote
##Vote: Barakos
NocturneMage - looks good, makes the effort to look into MD and Sul before voting near EoD, talks to me and other people to further his own reads. Really looks like he considered his options and placed his vote as best he could. If this guy is scum he gets an A+ for that perfomance, but of course he's far more likely to be town.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 26 2015 04:25 NocturneMage wrote:
I'm back. I am looking through Barakos/Moosy since they are the more debated at the moment.
Barakos's first post - the first post that everyone's sort of gone through, besides it not really having conclusions, it has a "I'm going to wait and see" feel which is scummy. There isn't that search for information that I saw with other posts. I saw Rayn's first post too but I didn't think it was a big deal since it was the very first post and we can always read him later. Also the reaction test thing makes no sense to me just reading it he holds the same standards for breshke and disformation passing that test when Breshke died more prematurely than disformation.
And in reading elsewhere, I would think a reaction test would be something like a fakeclaim/blue claim like happened in that game or a sharp read against what the thread is thinking, something that would actually provoke a reaction and shows alignment. Plus he also doesn't really draw alignment conclusions from that test either.
I don't have a problem with voting Barakos, but let me wrap up looking at moosy and see whether he really is worse than Barakos. On July 26 2015 04:35 NocturneMage wrote:On Moosy Show nested quote +On July 25 2015 01:24 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Lol you want my honest expectations of ruXxar? I think he's a shit player who can't give reads and who makes shitty arguments like this. He tunnels hard as hell and generates way too much spam for him to be worth as a townie. That's my honest interpretation of ruXxar.
HOWEVER
even if he's a shit player the least he can do since he signed up is try and participate rather than spam useless poetry. Which is why I've been pulling his teeth and trying to get him to fucking participate although I doubt he's going to provide anything useful anyway.
As for your argument LOL. The reason why I'm going to take particular care in looking at your posts is because I hold a grudge over your worthless play in our first newbie game together. That's what I mean when I say I will "suspect you hard". It's not that I think that you're Mafia but that I'm going to make sure that if you are Mafia that I'll catch it and make sure you die.
Want me to more brutally honest or does this suffice? I am looking at some of these posts and I want to say these posts that he's going on about ruXxar could come from either alignment. Show nested quote +On July 25 2015 01:49 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On the other hand since he did sign up to play he should at least do something helpful and TRY to give reads even though he won't give anything useful. This quotes I could see coming from either alignment. If ruXxar and moosy were both scum, it would be him giving an opening to try and dig himself out. If moosy was town and regardless of the alignment of ruxxar it would be him trying to search for more information. However when I see ruxxar's response to moosy "the more you talk the more convinced you are mafia", I also don't see scum teammates trying to push each other on the first day of play, so I'm going to say moosy is probably a town lean. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/490503-newbie-student-mafia-xiii?page=25#497I also don't understand the case against moosy. I think reading somewhere Breshke complained about some contradiction? Did it sound deliberate? Unless I missed a quote somewhere from Moosy, why can't someone as town complain about how you are playing the game without determining (or being able to determine your alignment) and then use that same complaint to try and get information out of you? Moosy could very well be mafia but I don't think that approach that ruxxar described would be a great reason. Now later on, the one thing I don't like about moosy is that he gets back into thread when ruxxar is past his poetry phrase and he is only criticizing him for just hopping on a wagon, and from this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/490503-newbie-student-mafia-xiii?page=32#624is still more or less calling his play bad, so I'm not clear where he draws the line between bad play and mafia play for ruxxar. Hopping on a wagon for no reason is scummy. Then in the next post, he's giving advice, as scum though it goes back to my first post, he probably wouldn't be giving him advice if he was scum, instead looking to take advantage since that would serve a mafia interest. I'm thinking null or a very slight townlean based on the advice but I do want to clarify something. Moosy if you return to the thread, Show nested quote +On July 25 2015 09:07 MoosyDoosy wrote:
COUGH YOU'RE evaluation about him being more warm? I was the first one to point that out thank you very much. But then again the only thing you can do is hop on wagons so I guess I shouldn't have expected anything else. can you explain why you are implying this is bad and why this wouldn't make him mafia? Metaread? You keep calling him a shitty player but where are you drawing the line between ruxxar the bad player and ruxxar the mafia player. On July 26 2015 04:37 NocturneMage wrote:
On July 26 2015 04:30 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2015 04:19 Damdred wrote:
Its just a few hours till lynch though and instead of pushing your prefered lynch you say you don't like the lynch and you are instead putting attention on myself and rayn. It is counter productive at best with the time left if you are so against the lynch We started talking about me being flaky on the Bara lynch remember? You and rayn might be onto something with him, and I'm certainty not going to defend him when he is not around himself. His lynch could actually be really good, and at this point is probably going to happen. I'm not as convinced that he is scum and have been trying to reconcile a few things. Both Moosy and Sulf seem pretty scummy to me as I've been talking about since I got home from work last night. There's a pretty solid amount of afk players atm which is making it harder to push another wagon.
Can you explain what makes moosy worse than barakos? Just finished reading through the two I think the latter is worse as it stands. On July 26 2015 05:02 NocturneMage wrote:
On July 26 2015 04:11 Tictock wrote:
I'm still a bit more interested in lynching Moosy or Sulf over Bara.
Both I've discussed, but to elaborate on Sulf.
The list post feels really odd to me and if I were to accept it and merge with my own reads would leave only one scum team of Bara/ Moosy/ Noc. While that is a totally possible team I just can't agree with things being that simple so early. Also I have a really hard time understanding why n00b, Damdred, Flex, Dis, and Bre all ended up where they are on those reads.
The post about Bara really was weird too and really only makes sense as trying to show he thinks Bara is scummy for his own reasons.
Like even if Bara is scum here this looks like a lame attempt to hop on that wagon without just sheeping.
My take on Sulfurus
To me, he's calling Flexes lock clear town which is just weird and I think someone else also mentinoed why he was ranked above disinformation. The bigger issue is where he gets that when he's ranked two other players (ruxxar and rels) below that when those two have posted a large amount and from what I tell of the filter he doesn't have explanations either way for that. He ranks rayn and Damdred who have posted a lot more too so I am also not clear on where he thinks Rels is less town (according to what he's posted) for example. And disformation.
On July 25 2015 08:46 Sulfurus wrote:
The mind-meld is between me and rayn FailFish
Not to mention I don't know what a mind meld is either...but that's probably irrelevant.
Do you Tictock think your case on Sulfurus makes him lynchable over Barakos? Or even any of the points I or others raised? [B]On July 26 2015 05:20 NocturneMage wrote:
From my previous post -
##vote Barakos
Yes Tictock, I know that's why I want to know from moosy when he got back in thread and he didn't really do anything different from ruXxar's poetry phase, where he draws the line between a bad ruxxar and mafia ruxxar.
To be fair, moosy I believe did say he did his mafia hunting by getting the townies first and then working from there, so from that standpoint, he seems to be townreading Rels (the tunnel comment) and ruXxar from an earlier comment. But then again, that's it and it doesn't explain why he keeps bringing up the "shit" play from him. End of his filter he's setting himself up to follow up on reads on people so he has some time to do that.
If he doesn't do that, though I'd be much more inclined to scumread him.
So I'm finding that of the people who were on the Bara wagon it is Bre and Sulf who are likely scum bussing their partner.
MD and Flex are also in a bit of an odd place for having more or less wasted D1.
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