TL Mafia LXXI: Gaiden

On July 06 2015 11:32 KelsierSC wrote:
ok damdred what do you think about LS's comment that scott is figured out later on in the game?

On July 06 2015 11:39 Oatsmaster wrote:

mafia

On July 06 2015 11:40 scott31337 wrote:
You are actually going to have to be towny this game milo - BH will modkill you if you try that unvote cred in his game.

On July 06 2015 12:03 ruXxar wrote:
Oatsy <3

I like where you're going so far.
You're showing determination in your play.
That's what I wanna see from you.

Is there a difference between your mafia scum reads, or is everyone you call mafia equally mafia?

On July 06 2015 12:08 Oatsmaster wrote:

but what if rux is mafia?

scumslip?!??

On July 06 2015 12:28 WaveofShadow wrote:

lolwut
That's exactly what he just did

On July 07 2015 10:14 rsoultin wrote:


she and yeah pretty much

On July 06 2015 11:01 KelsierSC wrote:


like my dong

On July 06 2015 09:16 KelsierSC wrote:
scptt fuck you

On July 06 2015 08:00 KelsierSC wrote:
aight, I can beleeee dat

On July 06 2015 11:20 milo109 wrote:
Hmmm. I feel like I should post more but I don't have much more. Leaning town on Holyflare, and I want to call WaveofShadow also town. But I can't.

On July 06 2015 11:24 milo109 wrote:
It's harder to read Damdred when you aren't mafia. I'm gonna call him mafia here though.

On July 06 2015 07:36 LightningStrike wrote:

...........

On July 06 2015 11:21 LightningStrike wrote:
Also I liking you this game KSC if you care just don't be a dick to me this game please? <3

On July 06 2015 22:23 LightningStrike wrote:
Good morning Tina any thoughts you would like to share?

On July 07 2015 11:41 LightningStrike wrote:

Milo I never played with you may I suggest you read the database for all my games minus Himalayas?

On July 07 2015 12:05 Holyflare wrote:
"god can't you read" or "he already said that"

On July 07 2015 12:30 Holyflare wrote:


This does not answer the point at all and is most concerning. I do not care if he builds a narrative on LS. I care that he earlier said LS is not scum after reading LS' filter. Nothing had happened since then. Trfel then returns and asks LS a question about Ritoky. Suddenly Trfel's read on LS changes to LS being mafia.

Then he posts a case on LS and none of the things in the case on LS being mafia contain the questions about Ritoky. So why is his case a different version than his opinion in the thread?

On July 06 2015 07:36 LightningStrike wrote:

...........

On July 06 2015 07:34 LightningStrike wrote:

That is a terrible role to claim Day 1 I don't even know what the hell is going on......

On July 07 2015 12:44 Oatsmaster wrote:

who gives a shit?

Why did you unvote him if you still think hes mafia?

On July 07 2015 20:19 marvellosity wrote:

i'm just going to quote myself because i think this is really notable and i'd like to know if i'm alone in this, it could be pretty important.

On July 07 2015 20:30 Palmar wrote:

That's super situational though. If someone townreads you for the right reasons it makes you feel super warm and fuzzy.

On July 08 2015 03:19 Holyflare wrote:


You REALLY can't understand why I think you're scummy??? After i've posted about 20 paragraphs about it and made a case? REALLY?

Why do I care if you're impressed. If you town read Trfel and now I think his last post was honest and start town reading him why is your initial read of suspicion and how does that make sense for a mafia holyflare to even do. It doesn't, you're grasping at straws. You have no responses for any of the questions I raise. You misquote things, you take things out of context and then you try and spin it in a scummy way (milo post, ritoky actions) and then when I do it ONCE in this game (which isn't even true) you completely flip your read around. Your thoughts do not align with your actions. Your posts have no direction. Your scum read on milo did not progress in the slightest because you were "waiting for him to answer questions" despite him posting several times after that and I was asking him questions which you still didn't acknowledge.

You keep posting how I am pushing milo but think you are also mafia which very likely makes me mafia but I am pushing milo and you think i'm mafia. That is the biggest double standard in this game. SO SO SO mafia double standardy in fact that i'm voting you.

On July 08 2015 05:43 Holyflare wrote:


That's exactly what I'm saying lol!?!?!??! She scum read me because I was scum reading her and who she was pushing. Then she scum reads me and who I was pushing. It's a silly double standard but it is a contradiction of the thought pattern someone was having.

She definitely did take your words out of context:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488082-tl-mafia-lxxi-gaiden?page=109#2163

On July 08 2015 05:47 ObiWanShinobi wrote:


It tells us their alignments.
So that's something.

On July 08 2015 05:54 Harkon wrote:

That is your own fault for being scummy.

On July 08 2015 11:31 rsoultin wrote:
lol

massive associative read in other words xP

On July 08 2015 11:42 Breshke wrote:


What future steps won't you be dead?

On July 08 2015 11:43 Breshke wrote:


Yeah and we can have other blue roles who didn't actually claim D1. Claiming cop doesn't mean you don't have to make sense.

On July 08 2015 11:55 ObiWanShinobi wrote:


This hinges on MZ being mafia.
Can you make a case on MZ being mafia at this point in time?

Otherwise you have nothing.

On July 08 2015 07:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
and milo whatever the fuck you claimed in order to get the heat off of you is worthless in my mind until you can prove it.

On July 08 2015 07:06 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

^honesty looks a lot better than fake surprise/indignation

now let's wait for all the people who weren't around at the deadline to come in and say how bad we were and how they knew BM was town.

On July 08 2015 09:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

I think rsoultin is probably town and I also think the RS/HF dispute is green on green.

idk about LS, not really on my radar but probably worth a read through when I finish.

On July 08 2015 09:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I finally got to Milo's claim and for the record I think it's complete bullshit

cc: the people who were asking me if I wanted to lynch a claimed cop earlier.

On July 08 2015 11:58 geript wrote:

1. They didn't lead the lynch on BM
2. Why did you hate them already?

On July 08 2015 11:56 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Even if you think there were people going out of their way to save MZ, why were they only scum for doing so and why can't they be town trying to save someone they think is town?

It's the same concept. The theory you're bringing up COULD hold water, but even if it did you'd be able to make cases on those players anyway without the associative reads involved.

On July 08 2015 12:08 geript wrote:

How did they play scummy?

On July 08 2015 12:11 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
1) Doesn't matter. He might not have thought BM was mafia. He still voted BM to save himself which is pretty much exactly what I would expect and "overplaying it" is irrelevant.

No it isn't. I did the -exact- same thing as mafia last game. It is an easy way to gain town credit.

2) Your point on him doubting your claim doesn't mean a whole lot. People doubt claims. It's normal.

No no. Doubting both claims is the weird thing. We do have cop(s).

3) I don't see how what MZ said to HF means that he can only be interacting with a scum partner. I thought the same thing about Hf's post, so why am I not mafia for saying something similar?

Because you didn't town read MZ before hand and as a response.

4) There's no fence there. I don't really see the issue with this post. I thought the same thing about the Rso/HF fight.

By itself, the quote is fine. But when used in context? MZ is picking the low-hanging fruit.

On July 08 2015 22:54 Holyflare wrote:


I have no idea how you still scum read me for a post where I corrected your faulty knowledge and you agreed it was faulty.

On July 08 2015 23:15 marvellosity wrote:

fwiw i tihnk you are quite a bit townier than i thought you were towards end of day 1.

besides we can't not lynch someone because you'd get in trouble for it, and i think you know that

On July 09 2015 11:17 Breshke wrote:


So what exactly are you saying you believe? Town geript tracked town JK damdred to ritoky and ritoky was RB'd by damdred and you were rolelocked by mafia?

On July 09 2015 07:44 Harkon wrote:

Do not try any bullshit. No plays, no tricks, no nothing.

Did you really redcheck clarity? If you say yes then we will lynch you if you ever back out of it.

On July 09 2015 07:44 Damdred wrote:
And one of the cops has a red check on clarity hrmmm...

My prideful side wants to say fuck yeah....

On July 09 2015 07:52 Holyflare wrote:
Yeh we are never not lynching you ever.

On July 09 2015 07:51 Clarity_nl wrote:
How about we just lynch milo and when he flips red we don't kill me?

On July 09 2015 12:22 Damdred wrote:
Like, after I flip though just off of a gut reaction

Milo is sorta soft defending me idk why he keeps saying oh I don't believe this at all. But I'm going to defend this guy because people make mistakes. It just feels off to me this game.

Look at rsoultin who soft pushed me yesterday and part of the night and never really gives a read on me before the check besides soft I don't like x. It just feels mafia at this point with everything going on, I think hf is town and usually when hf and RS are town they shit fight. I think could be a scum here.

Oats has been super opportunistic all game first with geript or rotating around, now he's focusing only on me. While I don't think this is that indicative its interesting and should be looked at.

Geripts claim is real it feels like, I believe ritokys claim at this point over mills.

just a few random thoughts while I'm on break

On July 09 2015 12:32 Oatsmaster wrote:

Why did you drop it so early?
Only like 4-5 people responded.

On July 10 2015 05:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

The WIFOM made my brain explode

On July 10 2015 05:04 boxerfred wrote:

Okay, So, milo claims to be blocked. My point stands.

Fine with damdred as long as we don't forget/kill milo at night.

##unvote ##vote Damdred

It's also fun how HF instareads me scum though I'm really trying to help. Also it's noteworthy that while the whole thread says "lynch damdred" I say "lynch milo" instead. would've been way easier for me to stick with damdred.

On July 10 2015 05:26 Holyflare wrote:

You then proceeded to use extortionate amounts of tmi.

On July 10 2015 05:29 Holyflare wrote:


mafia could have shot you and jat could be mafia fake claiming the hit which lynches town jk damdred and probably milo after that (who could be town, yet super unlikely) thus they never expected you to get saved and had to make up some bs

less than 0% chance but probably like 5%

On July 10 2015 05:30 ritoky wrote:


No, you're not understanding this. Harkon claimed veteran who had kp on him last night. So either he is mafia knowing the KP went on marv last night and is using the wifom to gain cred, or he is the veteran. He is on neither of your lists. So it makes 0 sense to me.

On July 10 2015 05:31 Holyflare wrote:
you think i'm mafia so who gives a shit

On July 10 2015 05:32 boxerfred wrote:

If Harkon is fakeclaiming I'm ready to lose this game simply because of the #sickPlays.

On July 10 2015 05:35 Holyflare wrote:
your blatant lies to the thread

On July 10 2015 05:36 marvellosity wrote:

I think I know the WIFOM reason Ritoky called me town, and that makes me think he is town as well.

On July 10 2015 05:36 Holyflare wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488082-tl-mafia-lxxi-gaiden?page=212#4222

respond to this milo because it quite blatantly points out your lapse in logic

On July 10 2015 05:40 Holyflare wrote:

You know what's unpleasant? Knowing you're 100% mafia and having to listen to you write all of these posts that require responding to.

Dispute the case that I just presented to you.

On July 10 2015 05:43 Holyflare wrote:


There is lapse in logic. You said you scum read me for a reason which was wrong. I corrected that reason and you agreed. You still scum read me for that reason. You also did not have mz in your list of scum reads but you became so suddenly certain that MZ was mafia that you decided to base everything off of that. You ignore the fact that i'm pushing the majority of your scum reads and still scum read me. You can say "oh but mafia can push their buddies" like you did last time but there is absolutely no way that you think i'm mafia with both HtS AND rsoulting. No way. It doesn't make sense.

You then say that even though I was pushing your scum list and the reason you originally scum read me for disappeared that I'm still scum anyway because my play is so obvious? What is so obvious about it and what makes it so scummy since you know, pushing your list of scum reads doesn't sound scummy to me.

On July 10 2015 05:42 marvellosity wrote:

on what basis do you think he is lying?

On July 10 2015 05:51 Holyflare wrote:


what if i told you i was cheating and know you're mafia?

On July 10 2015 05:50 boxerfred wrote:

erm that's actually as close a TMI as it gets, yep

On July 10 2015 05:56 boxerfred wrote:
are you in a hurry? take your time to read and think.

On July 10 2015 05:58 Holyflare wrote:


No. You DID scum read me because of that post even after I corrected you. It's in my case right there for all to see, the quote you used. What's wrong with me sticking by my reads? I think marv pointed out excellent points on MZ at night and it made me rethink my read on you and decide that from your perspective as someone in your SECOND game that coming up with "that was definitely a deflection off of mafia mz" before mz had even really done anything (and his posts weren't that bad at the time) made absolutely no sense in the slightest. That is your first instance of TMI.

Then, today, you fake claim on clarity and get a towny reaction from it and still call him mafia for nothing. You see damdred getting screwed over by Geript and in a world where you see JAT getting shot as veteran you STILL call damdred town????? It doesn't make sense at all. You seem to think that there is a veteran a banisher a jailkeeper and 2 cops and that's all been revealed in one/two cycles? Every post you make just oozes of you knowing what happened at night and making decisions based off of that. There is no confusion behind your posts.

On July 10 2015 06:02 Holyflare wrote:


How on earth was it suspicious in the slightest? MZ starts posting, Bill Murray has posted nothing and has claimed wanderer as mafia in the past. Why is that suspicious and don't you dare just say go check my past posts. Re-answer this if you have already because I don't see anything suspicious about it in the slightest.

On July 10 2015 05:57 ritoky wrote:
For the love of God, please just do this milo. If you're town this argument is just shitting up the thread right now:



scott, BF, clarity, and MZ were all on your list. pick one and go.

On July 07 2015 03:40 scott31337 wrote:

I know it was a joke but was it to get distracted off of rsoul? It sure feels that way...

I'm only at page 58 - here's my spreedsheet of love.
1) Marvellosity  townie after the morning
2) Scott31337  town
3) WaveofShadow  Voted HF weirdly
4) Clarity_nl  mixed it with HF / slight town
5) ruXxar  slight town
6) Vivax  Meh/null of scum defends trfel
7) Bill Murray  wanderer claim
8) ritoky  slight town
9) geript  slight town
10) boxerfred  null meh posts fakeclaim cop to distract from rsoul.
11) Meapak_Ziphh 
12) Trfel  Crap start but can be a big poster too
13) LightningStrike  Meh/Damdred brings up good conclusions on his meta / looking up cases
14) Palmar  Called boxerfred town which I don’t like/believe in
15) ObiWanShinobi  Bad vote on HF / scumlean
16) KelsierSC  Trying to think the game / townlean
17) milo109  scumlean ,towns HF / Oats / Wave
18) Breshke  Ehh
19) Oatsmaster  Says Clarity /WoS mafia
20) Damdred  Slight town going after LS
21) rsoultin  not a great defense when pressured, scumlean
22) Half The Sky  miller claim / decent listpost
23) Harkon  Smurf - maybe JAT? Ehhh
24) Holyflare  Mindmelt opening - town
25) XEliteBlueHunter69X 

I'll be back in a couple hours after I eat and finish the thread.

On July 08 2015 06:27 scott31337 wrote:


Why were you AFK for so long?

On July 08 2015 06:52 scott31337 wrote:
I want to go back to Ziphh

On July 10 2015 06:13 Holyflare wrote:


why do you ignore the part of the post that explains why people would lynch bm for claiming a role and ask why we would lynch bm for claiming a role?


Why is it suspicious that MZ doesn't want to lynch BM in the slightest?

Like your whole argument is that "It's totally suspicious that mz doesn't want to lynch bm! you guys are scummy for wanting to lynch bm!"

if you're talking about logic good sir, that has 0 of it

On July 10 2015 06:15 Holyflare wrote:


i can't help it, i'm really in a bad mood and whenever i post something someone else does some silly shit or calls me mafia and it just puts me right back in that bad mood

i want an actual game of people that listen to things i contribute or at least converse with me about why they are wrong or right but instead it's little quips or just flat out ignoring or calling me scummy or just hard defending the person i'm bringing up points on while shit fighting with me

On July 10 2015 06:18 Holyflare wrote:


nah this is bull shit

you scum read everyone for wanting to switch to bm
you scum read mz for wanting to not switch to bm
now you scum read scott for wanting to stay on mz ^^

ok dude

On July 10 2015 06:18 Holyflare wrote:

Okay?

On July 10 2015 06:20 Holyflare wrote:


so why do you completely bypass my original post all over again: how is BM a bad choice when he's done the exact same thing as mafia before

On July 10 2015 06:21 ritoky wrote:

The rest is meh to me and seems like fairly arbitrary reasons to put someone on your mafia list....

On July 10 2015 06:24 ritoky wrote:


Then why did he make your "scum" list with only 4 other people.....wat? If you didn't have much to work with, then why is he scum over 20 other people?

On July 10 2015 06:30 Clarity_nl wrote:


I believe it, why would damdred lie, makes no sense.


Soooo.... Let's start discussing our lynch as if it's true.

Milo, yes? Let's go.

On July 10 2015 06:32 geript wrote:
First things first. Who got gunned today?

On July 10 2015 06:38 Clarity_nl wrote:


Alright milo. So tell me this, do you believe they're masons?

If yes, do you still think ritoky is town?

On July 10 2015 06:40 KelsierSC wrote:
why did geript post this then

On July 10 2015 06:46 Clarity_nl wrote:


He might be???? If he is lying about the mason claim then he IS.

But why would he, literally makes no sense at all. I still believe geript is being dumb.

On July 10 2015 12:29 scott31337 wrote:
@Milo -

Rsoul: Has played in a immature fashion, but hasn't done anything about the claims at all. Which is weird. But towny. Besides.. Pretty sure she'll vote for HF. Can't go alienating my base, can I? How will I win the general election then?

Tell me more about this and why you feel that way. She scumreads HF and will vote for him so you like her, is this correct?

On July 10 2015 20:53 marvellosity wrote:

yes it is, really

On July 11 2015 11:21 ruXxar wrote:


I don't particularly like milo's play up until this point.

The things I didn't like primarily was his push on LS, and his interaction with damdred was strange.
I'll have to re-evaluate that from a standpoint of him actually being a real cop, seemed strange how certain he was that damdred was the real JK though.

In general I don't like the tone of his posts. I made a tone-read earlier:

On July 09 2015 14:04 Clarity_nl wrote:
Ok so town!milo has an interesting point of view here. He's the only person that knows he is cop while everyone else is in doubt.

Ritoky claimed 1-shot cop halfway through day 1 when pressure started to build on him, milo claimed 2-shot cop near the end of day 1 when it looked like he was the main wagon.

Day 2 starts and ritoky immediately claims he was roleblocked. town!milo was roleblocked. Obviously town would never roleblock him (having a JK defending him is not a thought anyone would have) so he should be feeling like ritoky is very likely lying at this point.

However, somehow his first instinct when hearing about ritoky being roleblocked as well as him, is to:



Test Clarity and Holyflare?



So right away I have trouble putting this in town!milo's actions. He should be out to lynch ritoky and push him, not do some fake check/just kidding I was roleblocked and then leave to go look at responses later. Keep in mind that town!milo believes he was roleblocked by scum, so faking a redcheck on me would not make HF or myself slip up as scum, so the whole thing doesn't make much sense.

I have never in this entire game truly believed ritoky scum. Hey look TMI. Or being able to read people. Probably the former though, right? :> So I wanted to see how mafia would react to a red check they obviously knew was fake.

He comes back and Damdred has claimed JK on ritoky at this point:



Okay so this all makes sense from town!milo's perspective: "I now know that ritoky was roleblocked by damdred. I know that I was roleblocked by mafia. Making the reasonable assumption that scum do not have two roleblockers, this means that Damdred is in fact the town JK." However he then says Ritoky is now confirmed scum.

This would make night actions as follows:
1 scum kp on Palmar
1 scum kp on marv
damdred JK > ritoky
scum RB > milo

However, milo overlooks that town!milo would consider that scum roleblocked him, damdred JK > ritoky and scum kp > ritoky. This is what makes sense if both him and ritoky are cops, otherwise scum would just let ritoky get a check off. This should be a consideration for town!milo and only for him, because he is confirmed cop. He claimed he believed ritoky but he can't be cop, yet didn't see the obvious night actions that would have ritoky be cop.

I mentioned this multiple times as a possibility, before Harkon claimed. Afterwards... I think you know that this renders this impossible. WAIT. WTF. I MENTIONED IN THE NEXT QUOTE THAT I THOUGHT IT WAS POSSIBLE SCUM KP > RITOKY. Worst Case NA


How does town!milo want to believe that ritoky is town, but he does not see that scum could have roleblocked him and shot ritoky??

Er... I did a typo in the above quote. Obviously there wouldn't be a KP on a mafia ritoky. It was meant to be isn't.

It's because scum!milo is pretending to be town!milo.
Meaningless sentence is meaningless



In whatever world town!milo lives, either there are two scum roleblockers (and one of them is Damdred) or Damdred is JK.
This should mean to him that if Damdred is JK he is less likely to get lynched because a roleblock on him makes much more sense, however he says the opposite.



Milo is correct here. However he did not say "you have to be town because of the information I have", he says "my fate is tied to you". His phrasing throughout day 2 has been like this.

- Ritoky is like confirmed mafia in my world.
- Unless another town RBer wants to out, or mafia has two RBer, that's what I have to believe, odd as it is.
- So.. I have to defend Damdred here, despite the fact that he is the worst JK ever if he is one. People make mistakes..

Milo is talking as if he is considering someone else's point of view: scum!milo is trying to think like town!milo.


Lol. Pls. I'm narrating my thoughts.
tl;dr: Milo is scum. He did not call out ritoky immediately when he said he was roleblocked, despite not believing in two scum roleblockers. He is having trouble figuring out how town!milo would view the game and he makes statements that show he does not really believe what he's saying but he's "forced to" go along this path.

On July 11 2015 11:46 ruXxar wrote:


What do you want to know?

I think it's a suboptimal play from a mafia trying to survive.
Keep in mind that this was before geript outed.
I think the mechanically correct play as mafia is to fake a greencheck/redcheck and then stick with it.
Rescinding the check and saying that you got roleblocked is trying to sell the world of there being either 2 mafia RBs or 1 Mafia RB + 1 jailer.
I think that is a low percentage play, so I'm not a fan of it.

On July 11 2015 11:51 ruXxar wrote:


I'm not sure what you mean specifically.
Can you clarify?

On July 11 2015 11:54 rsoultin wrote:
lol >< wave's filter holy hell. he asked vig to shoot him; maybe they should

On July 11 2015 11:58 Holyflare wrote:
You should simply read the game rsoultin because you are missing the night posts where milo horrendously tmi's up the thread with mz reads and mz tmi's up the thread with milo and ritoky reads and you're missing all of the fun bits that are actually useful to this game.

On July 11 2015 12:10 ruXxar wrote:


From a real cop perspective that actually got role-blocked, then you know you're pretty much not going to get any checks off until you die.
I think the play I would make is to just fake a red on the most scummy player on my list and stick with it.
You know you are 100% town, and everyone else is below 100%, so you have to trust in your own reads.

In that case I think you made the right play with faking the red-check, but screwed up when you rescinded.

On July 12 2015 06:15 ruXxar wrote:


Hello friend.
We need to talk.
Mind answering my questions from earlier?

On July 09 2015 12:23 milo109 wrote:
Remember, Mafia knows I'm fake claiming. This was the one I had the hardest time contemplating. On one hand, it seems odd that he knows to do this instantly. On the other, this is playing right in to the fake claim trap. I -think- this makes Harkon townier, unless he is out metaing me.



This is also odd:
I actually think that this is Damdred happy that he roleblocked a mafia. But... I have information that you don't have. That I'm town.


And then we have my favorite:
Er... Holyflare.. Pls. This is not from a town point of view at all.

This one is interesting:
I actually think this post and the one below it means I'm wrong on MZ. Or I'm an idiot and did a reaction test on town. I'll have to think over which is more likely.

On July 12 2015 11:51 rsoultin wrote:
meeeh actually, milo...can you also address your read on rit? you were happy to lynch him after his claim...third scumread i believe...but then you changed your mind and i couldn't find anything in your filter to explain that change other than claiming cop yourself?

On July 12 2015 11:43 rsoultin wrote:


nh

can you flesh any of these out for me?

i don't actually have a ton to talk about today, but if you're actually town here and we're making a mistake, it would be nice to have your thoughts, and i'll talk to you about them as much as you want?

On July 13 2015 05:22 ruXxar wrote:


With this attitude you will be for sure.
I hate the martyr charade.