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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On July 07 2015 21:21 Oatsmaster wrote: the one marv posted like 2 pages ago. Why are you asking me this? You basically said sometime back you liked milo and/or didn't see scum in him. So I see this and I want to know what changed your opinion. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On July 06 2015 19:40 boxerfred wrote: I dont like first day claims at all. just creating more confusion and more "maybes". how serious were the cop claims btw? pure lel? On July 06 2015 22:57 boxerfred wrote: Okay i hardclaim cop Is this a joke? Why did you post this? The second bit. | ||
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 07 2015 21:03 Half the Sky wrote: Alright, milo, not sure if you are still here, but so it goes... Re - KSC do you have any thoughts now? He's posted a tonne since you commented on him initially. KSC sometimes has those random one-liners and those aren't/can't be the only things you read from him. Looking at the timestamps it appears those were selectively placed, so does his gameplay since that (or even around those quotes) change your opinion at all? A few of us have opposing opinions on HF and a couple voiced some dissenting opinions on Damdred - for example Vivax felt that his posts were loaded or baitworthy, like he was trying to reach for an excuse to scumread LS. Do you agree with this assessment (same question also at KSC when he returns btw), I had previously quoted it. HF, I felt there is some selective reasoning. You probably want to look at the exchanges about 8-9 hours ago to get a sense of what was happening. (Admittedly he's probably not getting lynched today, but it's something that I think everyone needs to think about going on to later days.) So HtS had you just ignored clarity for the game so far? in response to your question, I liked the read from damdred at the start, but since then it has felt very lazy to stick to it if you take my meaning. Damdred is better at reading LS than me but it feels incorrect here. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On July 07 2015 14:44 Oatsmaster wrote: How ]On July 07 2015 14:26 rsoultin wrote: I think that there are at least like 3 people scummier than milo, and I think he's town for not mentioning his vote on geript. That's what townies do. Yay contradiction. This? I think that the post is scummy, but it doesnt make milo mafia. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
Your choice of calling his read opportunistic. First of all his read can only be opportunistic if he is mafia. Town doesn't do opportunistic because by definition they will only jump things they actually believe in. Only mafia can have a cause without reason, because reason leads town to cause. However, if your own perception is that the read is opportunistic, you must have believed he had an opportunity. Something that he could actually call out. I assume this opportunity that you think he had is you asking him these questions, and thus the opportunistic read is to call you mafia for asking them. The problem I have with that is, it embeds another layer of why he should be mafia from your point of view. Not only does he randomly call you mafia for no good reason, he also flat out refuses talking about things that in your judgement are relevant to the thread. If all of this is true it's astonishing that anyone could be higher priority for lynching from your point of view than him, which is why it's strange that you want to lynch geript anyway. I haven't read the case on geript you have, but man this one looks like it should be a solid case. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On July 07 2015 21:23 Oatsmaster wrote: No, however the 4 people he picked can easily be split into 2 pairs because of their interactions and I was wondering if boxer had any thoughts on the connections between them, because the reasons he is calling them mafia involve them interacting with the other pair on the list. Does this make sense too? No, show me an example. To me associative reads are dumb and useless. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
KSC, assuming I didn't misunderstand marv, he is saying his evidence for the clarity lynch was faulty, but in any case I have to re-read wos/clarity again, wos's posting so far objectively I can see being made as either alignment and compared to those more experienced with him I'm not entirely sure what to look for. Thing is, I know in other threads (not in other games, I've never actually played with him before) he's criticised his own town game, so I don't know if he really is a poor town player. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On July 07 2015 21:28 Palmar wrote: Your choice of calling his read opportunistic. First of all his read can only be opportunistic if he is mafia. Town doesn't do opportunistic because by definition they will only jump things they actually believe in. Only mafia can have a cause without reason, because reason leads town to cause. However, if your own perception is that the read is opportunistic, you must have believed he had an opportunity. Something that he could actually call out. I assume this opportunity that you think he had is you asking him these questions, and thus the opportunistic read is to call you mafia for asking them. The problem I have with that is, it embeds another layer of why he should be mafia from your point of view. Not only does he randomly call you mafia for no good reason, he also flat out refuses talking about things that in your judgement are relevant to the thread. If all of this is true it's astonishing that anyone could be higher priority for lynching from your point of view than him, which is why it's strange that you want to lynch geript anyway. I haven't read the case on geript you have, but man this one looks like it should be a solid case. Why should I want to lynch boxer over geript? There is a degree of scum I think someone is and boxer is like over here, geript is all the way over there in the place where seal posters go. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On July 07 2015 21:29 Palmar wrote: No, show me an example. To me associative reads are dumb and useless. An example of what? | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On July 07 2015 21:26 KelsierSC wrote: So HtS had you just ignored clarity for the game so far? in response to your question, I liked the read from damdred at the start, but since then it has felt very lazy to stick to it if you take my meaning. Damdred is better at reading LS than me but it feels incorrect here. I did not pay too much attention to Clarity largely because most of his interactions were before I entered the thread (I was still in Spain when the game started). I don't want to ignore him though. Nothing seems off about his vote/unvote about ritoky except for the fact he's not mentioned anything on ritoky prior to his voting. The "pussy" comment he makes sounds like a cop-out to him evaluating ritoky's gameplay closely but it could be also lazy town, and not knowing him it's hard to tell. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On July 07 2015 21:26 KelsierSC wrote: in response to your question, I liked the read from damdred at the start, but since then it has felt very lazy to stick to it if you take my meaning. Damdred is better at reading LS than me but it feels incorrect here. Alright, basically you are saying Damdred needs to evaluate other people. Thing is, I think he was. He was pushing ritoky through the ritoky dt claim and he was also pushing Trfel. He was scumreading Clarity at some point if I recall right. At this point I disagree with the baiting points made against him, but I think some follow-through on Trfel (I know he's posted since he AFKed and I went to bed) from his end would also be nice. LS has made drug references as both alignments, and in Himalayas demonstrated that he buckles under pressure as town, but his responses to Trfel don't show he's looking at ritoky beyond the dt claim (esp limited shot) - he used meta for instance to review my own (miller) claim but I didn't see where he did the same for ritoky. There was something else he said to Trfel that I thought was bad, and legit I felt caused him to change his read, and I know that was entirely separate from what Damdred commented on. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Note to self - review WoS/Clarity again. | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
On July 07 2015 21:13 Oatsmaster wrote: WELL I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK. WHY DONT YOU HAVE AN OPINION >.> actually its pretty scummy that you dont want to commit one way or another. If you make a scumlist, I am gonna assume that you think they are all on the same team. If so, I would like to know the connecting pieces. Especially for the 2 pairs you chose. Well if you think that hf and trfel are mafia together I would like to know why. same goes for clarity and wave considering they have significant interactions with each other. Let me explain to you why this is utter bullshit. Starting here: WELL I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK. WHY DONT YOU HAVE AN OPINION >.> I have written out what I think. I have explained every single point and left nothing open. When you asked, I elaborated. When you asked again, I elaborated again. Why do you want to know what I think if I said what I think in detail already? I don't understand that. I said what I think quite some time now. Why do I not have an opinion on the potential scum pair that you mention? Because I cannot possibly tell if both of them are scum or not. When I say "look, those four are my top scum reads" then of course that implies that they can potentially be on the same team. There's only one scum team around. The only thing that is interesting in that context is if the alignment/flip of one would confirm the alignment of another one. That simply is not the case. I explained that to you, too. I cannot answer anything more than that and can imagine a yes as well as a no. "Top scum read" does not mean "confirmed scum", how could I possibly know that. actually its pretty scummy that you dont want to commit one way or another. How is it scummy if I do not commit but instead explain very thoroughly why I don't? How is it scummy to say very clearly "your questions are bad and I don't see the sense in them but I still answer them"? If you make a scumlist, I am gonna assume that you think they are all on the same team. If so, I would like to know the connecting pieces. That is a very strange thing you want. I made a scum list and explained very thoroughly why every single one of the guys is on that list. You want connecting pieces, go search some! As I said, I did not find indicators that would connect two or more of those guys. But so what? For each and every single one of the people on my list, I stated reasons. None of those reasons were defended so far by the way. Tell me, how could I possibly find the connecting pieces? Tell me, why wouldn't you put some effort in and search them instead of derailing the thread, asking useless questions? Especially for the 2 pairs you chose. Well if you think that hf and trfel are mafia together I would like to know why. same goes for clarity and wave considering they have significant interactions with each other. Cool that you'd like to know why. Thing is that I still (I think I repeat myself for the third or fourth time in this post alone) do not have indicators for anyone on that list being connected to someone else on that list. So no, I do not think that they are connected. But I also do not think they are not connected. That's what people call a "possibility". Considering clarity and wave, if you read the last pages, you'd see that I am talking with marv about that. Shame that marv's theory (which was great) is apparently flawed. ___________ Your whole answer to me is a) bad, really bad town or b) scum. If I now take your filter into account, I mostly find useless oneliners, no consistency (besides useless oneliners), no pressure on anyone really, lots of drive-by posting. Welcome to my scum list. I'm totally fine seeing you hanged. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On July 07 2015 20:43 marvellosity wrote: ok i totally retract this entire line of reasoning Good man. I haven't played with rsoultin I don't think, but her shitfest with HF seems townie just because I expect scum!rsoultin to back off at some point rather than play the "you're trying to marginalize me" card. I've been going back and forth on boxerfred. His vote has been parked on me the entire time except for switching to trfel when it looked like he was going to be the lynch. marv picks up a line of reasoning that I kinda get if he was just looking at filters. On July 07 2015 18:00 boxerfred wrote: no it's not. note: thus far I only caught up to page 76 which is where I quoted that post from. I hunted blues in my second game (trying to find masons). I did that as town and I went down the full newbie road. Bluehunter is saying nothing all game long. Then he comes up with that huge post, not being very solid, not following up on anything, but, well, going for blue roles. He's a smurf who called himself bluehunter. I don't buy the "he might be a newb" thing at all, no way, no. Instead, my tinfoilhat senses tell me that he throws that out, wanting people to exactly think what HF just said. like, "you wouldn't do that as mafia". Erm, of course you would. That's the same thought that is behind bussing a teammate. Do something that seemingly does not make sense for your alignment, wait for some naive town to point it out (or a teammate to point it out if no town member does it) and boom, there you go. I already didn't like this: Someone (don't remember who it was) said that this is a very natural thought. Scenario: you read your role pm, see "oh cool, I'm a blue - damn, I'm just VT". And yes, a similar thought came to my mind - but that happened when I read the OP before the game started. I assume that HF did the very same. We find this pattern of seemingly naive and honest posts in Bluehunter's as well as in Holyflare's playstyle in this game. When I read this my first thought was "he doesn't remember this was me? and he's voting me?!?" but looking again he's probably talking about someone else. I'm gonna go back to this post and just say he's town based on being super excited to "catch me in a lie" On July 06 2015 20:53 boxerfred wrote: that's a lie, page 16-21 are not all about your entry post. they are about a bit of "lel that claim", lots of shittalking and other stuff. nothing on you sheeping the VT claim. On July 07 2015 20:22 Palmar wrote: Tbh, if clarity is mafia it's because in literally the second post in the game he said holyflare claiming VT in the first post of the game is somehow "interesting". It's not interesting, people do this shit every fucking game and no one should give a fuck. The fact he tried to appear interested in something so completely and obviously worthless (nevermind that HF is the worst "dick around with claims" offender on TL) is actually kinda scummy and the reason I threw my vote on him yesterday. Like I think it's sort of mafia like but I don't know if I can convince people that calling something interesting that isn't interesting is a solid case for someone being mafia. Palmar, it was the start of the game, HF's first post WAS interesting, then I tried to move away from it and everyone still brings it up sooo... I thought it was a good way to start the game, and I still feel that way. Why exactly is "appearing to be interested in something that's not interesting" only something scum would do? Anyway this kinda fucking sucks but I'm not sure where to go from here. I like Holyflare's posting in general and I like his case on trfel, that said these two posts... On July 07 2015 14:34 Trfel wrote: I'm not spiting anyone. Almost every question I've asked has had a purpose. Some of it has led to something, some of it has not. Anyway, I recently learned that I might not be here for End of Day tomorrow. So it appears that I will need to thought dump tonight. On July 07 2015 15:01 Trfel wrote: In the event that I'm wrong about LightningStrike, answering this question would be the most harmful thing I could possibly do for town. And I guess I'm not convinced enough about LightningStrike to do that. If it means I get lynched for it, so be it. I have a hard time seeing scum!trfel doing this. I guess I'll have to read into the whole geript/oats thing. Oats has already shown he's not reading the thread but from what I remember that's not alignment indicative, and geript's posting has been better. | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
On July 07 2015 21:25 Oatsmaster wrote: Is this a joke? Why did you post this? The second bit. I explained that already in the thread. Please do the work and go have a look for it. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
....and I'm out. A load of stuff at work, but will do my best today. Milo if you can answer those questions that would be grand, though I get the impression you might be asleep atm... :/ | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On July 07 2015 21:48 boxerfred wrote: Clarity, why do you claim the lie I caught you at, then say just now that you "tried to go away from the claim" although you said it's interesting in the first place? Makes no sense. Because when I said "just look at the first five pages it was all about my claim" I think it was when I pointed out you caught onto it late or something? Anyway I meant the start of the game but yes there wasn't much talk about it in the first 5 pages. The claim was interesting, then people wouldn't get over it (as I expected they would quite quickly) so I moved on, I think you called that post "moving suspicion to rsoultin" | ||
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