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Random stuff from after the flip:
On June 15 2015 07:17 Kickstart wrote:
First of all I want to apologize for my lack of activity. It isn't fair to everyone that I am usually quite active and in this game I neglected to play for some time. I am town though.
Secondly this end of cycle times is getting really stupid, please set a time and stick to it. I thought it was 21:00 originally then it was 1 hour earlier and now its 18:00.
Originally was suspicious mainly of ruxx and sulf. Sulf still scummy ruxx not so much. Hate to just come in and agree with thread sentiment but rels is scummy as well. Tbh I just skimmed through most of the EoD and the night stuff though.
This is prooty bad. Gonna wait till he re-proves himself but to come in and make excuses and apologize isn't a shining example of towniness.
On June 15 2015 07:18 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2015 07:15 ruXxar wrote:On June 15 2015 07:14 MoosyDoosy wrote:On June 15 2015 07:12 ruXxar wrote:
I'm 100% in on Rels. Thoughts on Sulfurus? Also scum. Although I have to say, there's something that irs me greatly about his play. What irks me is that sulfurs actions are so blatantly bad. Attacking trelf, which to a lot of people is a townie, had such a low probability of working that I'd think no mafia would be stupid enough to try to use that as their defense. In his last game he played he went against the grain and was actually town, so from a meta standpoint his play makes sense sort of?Still the associations between him and rels are too strong. Scum
More bad talk of association but I guess I've already plonked him straight into noobytown along with moosy so I suppose I have to forgive it? I guess if we're super wrong on Sulf/Rels or something goes down I'll need to re-evaluate more closely but for now I still think both Ruxx and Moosy are supernoobtown which they continue to keep showing off. I'm willing to eat it right now if I'm wrong on that. If we're talking about interactions the two of them are interacting very nicely in thread as well, and while this isn't necessarily hard to fake I don't see it here with these two.
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On June 15 2015 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote:yeah wave, unless the scumteam is you/kickstart/sulph. But why are you telling us to do things rather than doing things. Show nested quote + There is no way in hell that there are no scum on that 8-person wagon (obviously so) so it's important to look at the order in which they voted, when, and why Why arent you doing this? Wave last maf..
Because I'm finishing my catchup posts Oats.
I had a question for you too, btw.
On June 15 2015 08:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
that was a pretty bad kill.
Why exactly is everyone voting for rels and not sulph?
Who would you have expected to die, exactly?
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On June 15 2015 08:45 Sulfurus wrote:
Can someone besides trfel explain to me why he is being so universally town read? I admit looking back his tunnel on rels is better then I thought but that's it. He has spent all his time on this one player and doesn't have good reads on anyone else yet multiple players have put him at the top of their townlists.
Yeah, no.
I want this dead.
No thought into his post or who he's attacking. Once again shows up and posts ONCE and then screws off.
##Vote: Sulfurus
If at least one of those two is scum I want this one first.
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Lol also this moosy vs ruxxar business.
I gotta say moosy you're scaring me a little because if I'm going to get burned by one of you it looks like you'd be the one. I can visibly see you improving in the middle of this game and part of me wonders if it's because you were sandbagging all along.
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On June 15 2015 11:07 Oatsmaster wrote:
Also i have been in a game where day 1 was between 2 scum.
So meh, not a point
Well at least you're reading. How about playing now?
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Oh fish ul Votecount Oatsmaster (0): KickstartruXxar (0): TrfelKickstart (0): SulfurusSulfurus (2): Kickstart, geript, batsnacks, WaveOfShadow, scott11331373737373771317371373, MoosyDoosyBatsnacks (2): n00bKing, ruXxar, Oatsmaster, sulfurus, Rels, Trfelscott113133373737131731371313713137 (0): RelsGeript (8): WaveofShadow, Rels, Oatsmaster, batsnacks, Trfel, Damdred, MoosyDoosy, ruxxar, Scott Rels (1): batsnacks, Trfel, Damdred, Geript, scott11331373737373771317371373Not Voting (0):
K so to begin with, Rels and Oats are the first two on. Circumstances:
Rels - came up with sorta-novel reasons to vote Geript once I was already off of him. This is probably actually a point in his favour overall as it was probably easier to do so while I was on him (though then again maybe it's just because he wasn't on while all my shit with him was going down? meh. He also asks me why I stopped voting him) The vote itself isn't bad is what I'm saying here.
Oats - Just switched on to him with no exposition as I mentioned earlier. When asked his response was:
On June 14 2015 10:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
WHat you want wave?
Geript flipped town. Sucks. Move on.
If you are asking why Geript as opposed to other people, basically what I explained earlier. He didn't post before I slept so yeah, that's where my read was.
On June 13 2015 11:37 Oatsmaster wrote:
I'm scum reading sulfurus because you are sleeping people onto bats, means you don't really tthink bats is mafia, but your town reads do so you value their opinion over yours.
Bats isn't gonna shit up the thread lol, that's an empty threat.
I was totally right about geript switching off moose btw. I think geript is easily mafia.
This is believable actually, and he had a good reason to switch I suppose, I just didn't bother to look back initially when accusing him. This also fits with his 'more-likely-townplay' of switching reads around constantly.
Now comes the shitstorm. I'm fine with Bat's vote so I'm not going to bother here. Important to note though that he already has 3 people on him when Bats votes so scum can now see this is as a likely mislynch.
Trfel - First to jump on the wake of Bat's 'discovery.' Eh. On looking through I thought he was on Rels all day and then dropped his amazing case instantly in favor of even after this post:
On June 14 2015 04:14 Trfel wrote:
Ugh, I just don't quite feel right about lynching geript or Damdred. They're both incredible players, and it's the weekend, so it's unfair to expect normal activity levels from them.
##vote Rels
But he was onto batsnacks as well at one point. It does kinda look as though he almost doesn't believe his own case at times because of his initial dropoff from Rels onto bats, then as bats lost ground back onto rels again and onto Geript. He does put a LOT of effort into his rels push when he is on him though so at the same time it seems doubtful that this is a half-assed push where he was just looking for an out. Not sold either on this one. Also liked his activity around the lynch and his first post after flip.
Damdred - This is it.
On June 14 2015 05:42 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2015 05:38 batsnacks wrote:On June 14 2015 05:33 MoosyDoosy wrote:On June 14 2015 05:32 batsnacks wrote:
Bat Traps™ mafia traps. The highest quality traps for your scum hunting needs. We'll see how right we are after Sulfurus, Rels, and getrip. You don't understand. geript just claimed mafia. Here is geript saying he will sheep Trfel's amazing case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +On June 14 2015 04:54 geript wrote:
Actually, I think I'm going to sheep too. Here is sulfurus's bold post defending Rels: + Show Spoiler +On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote:I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game. He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game. Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +On June 14 2015 05:04 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote:I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game. He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game. This is bold. Why does mafia post this? Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +On June 14 2015 05:08 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2015 05:04 batsnacks wrote:On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote:I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game. He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game. This is bold. Why does mafia post this? It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia. Bats...I am so proud of you
Interested to hear what bats himself thinks here of the people who sheeped him actually. I take it you were too excited it about your lynch at the time to see all of this going down?
Moosy - Fine with him. Has a monster filter, constant discussion of the lynch while it was going down.
Ruxxar - Ah, I remember pointing this one out before.
On June 14 2015 06:10 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2015 05:38 batsnacks wrote:On June 14 2015 05:33 MoosyDoosy wrote:On June 14 2015 05:32 batsnacks wrote:
Bat Traps™ mafia traps. The highest quality traps for your scum hunting needs. We'll see how right we are after Sulfurus, Rels, and getrip. You don't understand. geript just claimed mafia. Here is geript saying he will sheep Trfel's amazing case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +On June 14 2015 04:54 geript wrote:
Actually, I think I'm going to sheep too. Here is sulfurus's bold post defending Rels: + Show Spoiler +On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote:I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game. He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game. Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +On June 14 2015 05:04 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote:I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game. He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game. This is bold. Why does mafia post this? Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +On June 14 2015 05:08 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2015 05:04 batsnacks wrote:On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote:I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game. He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game. This is bold. Why does mafia post this? It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia. Wow bats... I'm speechless. I had you and geript as my top two scum. I refuse to believe that you would bus your own scum teammate this hard. You really redeemed yourself here in my eyes. I'll have to change my alignment of you to town and change my vote to geript. ##Unvote batsnacks
##Vote geript
I also remember not liking his post after the flip. Just looks like he's making more excuses and feigning...something.
Ugh I know I've been calling him town due to the moosy business but the more I watch those two the more I think SOMETHING has to be going on here. Ruxxar more likely scum than moosy by a huge factor.
Scott - Actually just ninjavoted. Didn't even say a thing about Geript. That's interesting. Ballsy for scum but apparently nobody picked up on it so far?
Personally thinking Damdred and Ruxxar come out looking the worst on geript train analysis. Both jump on after the train has begun to gather steam and help to push it past the crucial point (Damdred more so than even Ruxxar) But ruxxar's posting around it was pretty terrible while Damdred's is minimal and while not great, I COULD just see it coming from non-self-conscious town.
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Unrelated but I'm a huge whore so
Done in here for the night but I'll be around all day tomorrow.
Gonna stream again tonight and I figure I may as well post the link here in case anyone wants to come hang in chat :D
www.twitch.tv/waveofshadow
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I'll be completely honest, I cba to read Rels's 15-piece novel.
Rels I'm not voting you anyway, how about you just play the game like normal now?
I want to attempt to break a couple things down. Your suspicion on Moosy/Scott hinges on them voting for you over Sulfurus atm?
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I mean I'm just sitting here wondering why we're not lynching the guy who's clearly not playing the game, but that's just me.
I am liking all the other stuff going on though. It makes me feel like scum are scrambling because the top townreads haven't really changed a whole lot and are untouchable while the scum are trying to figure out which of the dregs they can safely remove to continue on with the game.
That in itself makes me feel good about Sulf not being targeted by anyone seemingly other than me. That says likely Sulf is scum and all the target switching and scumreads thrown out constantly means we're on the right track (although having to figure out which of all the people tossing around new scumreads are actually scum is blegggh).
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I've already said I haven't read much of Rels' posts.
Top scum is still absolutely Sulf. If the only reason to not lynch him is because 'oh well he did this shit in another game,' then that's not nearly enough.
Not much else has changed to be honest, other than the fact that I'd probably bump Rels up on my list to that muddle of 'null' players.
Other two are more than likely amongst Damdred/you(ruxxar)/Rels/Scott/Kickstart. I think Oats re-gets a townread for feels and you move down slightly because I dunno how you could be voting moosy and calling Sulf town without some shenanigans going on.
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On June 16 2015 05:25 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2015 05:22 WaveofShadow wrote:
Other two are more than likely amongst Damdred/you(ruxxar)/Rels/Scott/Kickstart. I think Oats re-gets a townread for feels and you move down slightly because I dunno how you could be voting moosy and calling Sulf town without some shenanigans going on. How so?
Because paranoia aside it doesn't make sense to me from either perspective no how much it's been looked at for Moosy to be scum given the way he's been playing and the numerous early 'noobmistakes,' and it doesn't make sense to me how Sulf could be town aside from purely based on a meta read which is usually an extremely substandard way of determining alignment if it's the only thing you're using.
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Also after actually reading your case for Sulf being town, it's entirely association based, and therefore based on absolutely nothing.
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On June 16 2015 05:31 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2015 05:22 WaveofShadow wrote:
I've already said I haven't read much of Rels' posts.
Top scum is still absolutely Sulf. If the only reason to not lynch him is because 'oh well he did this shit in another game,' then that's not nearly enough.
Not much else has changed to be honest, other than the fact that I'd probably bump Rels up on my list to that muddle of 'null' players.
Other two are more than likely amongst Damdred/you(ruxxar)/Rels/Scott/Kickstart. I think Oats re-gets a townread for feels and you move down slightly because I dunno how you could be voting moosy and calling Sulf town without some shenanigans going on. And why won't you read rels posts?!.... As a town it's your duty to stay informed so you can make a judgement based on as much information as possible.
Because they're long, boring, and mostly useless clearly.
Can you explain to me what makes them particularly important in the grand scheme of things?
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On June 16 2015 05:37 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2015 05:36 ruXxar wrote:On June 16 2015 05:32 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 16 2015 05:31 ruXxar wrote:On June 16 2015 05:22 WaveofShadow wrote:
I've already said I haven't read much of Rels' posts.
Top scum is still absolutely Sulf. If the only reason to not lynch him is because 'oh well he did this shit in another game,' then that's not nearly enough.
Not much else has changed to be honest, other than the fact that I'd probably bump Rels up on my list to that muddle of 'null' players.
Other two are more than likely amongst Damdred/you(ruxxar)/Rels/Scott/Kickstart. I think Oats re-gets a townread for feels and you move down slightly because I dunno how you could be voting moosy and calling Sulf town without some shenanigans going on. And why won't you read rels posts?!.... As a town it's your duty to stay informed so you can make a judgement based on as much information as possible. Because they're long, boring, and mostly useless clearly. Can you explain to me what makes them particularly important in the grand scheme of things? It gives us a window into how he thinks, who he suspects, why he suspects them. We can use them to see if he's making good or bad reads, if his alignment is the same as ours, and to better judge him. What you're essentially saying is that you'd rather he had said nothing. That's not a very towny perspective now is it? Yeah I'd be happier if sulfur is lynched but I'd be happier if ruxxar was lynched.
lol Bats why couldn't you have played like this from the start of the game?
You tempt me.
To further explain (because I know it's coming) what bats outlined is something town essentially NEVER needs to say. It's an extremely odd statement and stands way out as a way of emphasizing 'LOOK AT ME IM TOWN.' Notwithstanding the end of the post where he very subtly begins to throw shit/suspicion on me to see if it sticks.
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On June 16 2015 05:40 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2015 05:37 batsnacks wrote:On June 16 2015 05:36 ruXxar wrote:On June 16 2015 05:32 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 16 2015 05:31 ruXxar wrote:On June 16 2015 05:22 WaveofShadow wrote:
I've already said I haven't read much of Rels' posts.
Top scum is still absolutely Sulf. If the only reason to not lynch him is because 'oh well he did this shit in another game,' then that's not nearly enough.
Not much else has changed to be honest, other than the fact that I'd probably bump Rels up on my list to that muddle of 'null' players.
Other two are more than likely amongst Damdred/you(ruxxar)/Rels/Scott/Kickstart. I think Oats re-gets a townread for feels and you move down slightly because I dunno how you could be voting moosy and calling Sulf town without some shenanigans going on. And why won't you read rels posts?!.... As a town it's your duty to stay informed so you can make a judgement based on as much information as possible. Because they're long, boring, and mostly useless clearly. Can you explain to me what makes them particularly important in the grand scheme of things? It gives us a window into how he thinks, who he suspects, why he suspects them. We can use them to see if he's making good or bad reads, if his alignment is the same as ours, and to better judge him. What you're essentially saying is that you'd rather he had said nothing. That's not a very towny perspective now is it? Yeah I'd be happier if sulfur is lynched but I'd be happier if ruxxar was lynched. I see you're at it again with you "Bat Traps™ mafia traps. The highest quality traps for your scum hunting needs." We all saw how that worked out with geript.
I'm not sure what bats said has anything to do with geript's supposed scumslip.
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On June 16 2015 05:48 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2015 05:41 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 16 2015 05:40 ruXxar wrote:On June 16 2015 05:37 batsnacks wrote:On June 16 2015 05:36 ruXxar wrote:On June 16 2015 05:32 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 16 2015 05:31 ruXxar wrote:On June 16 2015 05:22 WaveofShadow wrote:
I've already said I haven't read much of Rels' posts.
Top scum is still absolutely Sulf. If the only reason to not lynch him is because 'oh well he did this shit in another game,' then that's not nearly enough.
Not much else has changed to be honest, other than the fact that I'd probably bump Rels up on my list to that muddle of 'null' players.
Other two are more than likely amongst Damdred/you(ruxxar)/Rels/Scott/Kickstart. I think Oats re-gets a townread for feels and you move down slightly because I dunno how you could be voting moosy and calling Sulf town without some shenanigans going on. And why won't you read rels posts?!.... As a town it's your duty to stay informed so you can make a judgement based on as much information as possible. Because they're long, boring, and mostly useless clearly. Can you explain to me what makes them particularly important in the grand scheme of things? It gives us a window into how he thinks, who he suspects, why he suspects them. We can use them to see if he's making good or bad reads, if his alignment is the same as ours, and to better judge him. What you're essentially saying is that you'd rather he had said nothing. That's not a very towny perspective now is it? Yeah I'd be happier if sulfur is lynched but I'd be happier if ruxxar was lynched. I see you're at it again with you "Bat Traps™ mafia traps. The highest quality traps for your scum hunting needs." We all saw how that worked out with geript. I'm not sure what bats said has anything to do with geript's supposed scumslip. He's nitpicking on a word that was supposedly a "slip" from me.
That's not a slip, it's a deliberate insertion.
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On June 16 2015 05:48 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2015 05:44 ruXxar wrote:
Just to make it clear to everyone.
I wouldn't mind if Sulfur was lynched for his complete lack of contribution.
However, I would much rather try to lynch a mafia than a shitty town any day of the week.
Wanna know the easiest way to tell the difference between mafia and shitty town? Be mafia. Like seriously there is no way you should be able to tell the difference as town given what sulfur has provided, unless you are mafia and you actually know sulfur's alignment.
Well except that this would belie that Sulf is actually town and Ruxxar's case is a simple case of TMI, and I have a very hard time believing that Sulf is town.
Associations aside I still don't know if I'd lynch Ruxxar first, but I think at this point I'd do it over Rels.
Votecount?
How many people are still on him actually, because that may be some interesting info too considering how quickly the wagon started at the beginning of the day.
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On June 16 2015 05:55 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2015 05:53 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 16 2015 05:48 batsnacks wrote:On June 16 2015 05:44 ruXxar wrote:
Just to make it clear to everyone.
I wouldn't mind if Sulfur was lynched for his complete lack of contribution.
However, I would much rather try to lynch a mafia than a shitty town any day of the week.
Wanna know the easiest way to tell the difference between mafia and shitty town? Be mafia. Like seriously there is no way you should be able to tell the difference as town given what sulfur has provided, unless you are mafia and you actually know sulfur's alignment. Well except that this would belie that Sulf is actually town and Ruxxar's case is a simple case of TMI, and I have a very hard time believing that Sulf is town. Associations aside I still don't know if I'd lynch Ruxxar first, but I think at this point I'd do it over Rels. Votecount?How many people are still on him actually, because that may be some interesting info too considering how quickly the wagon started at the beginning of the day. If ruxxar and sulfur are both mafia I don't think it's unreasonable to think that ruxxar is defending his scum mate who has all but left their team to fend for themselves. I also don't think it's unreasonable to think that ruxxar's case is TMI. So sulfur's alignment doesn't matter, ruxxar is scummy regardless.
Fair, though defending a scum-mate who has left is more likely a lost cause so I would expect a bus more than putting your neck out to defend them. Which, I suppose lends more credence to the theory of Ruxxar being newbie scum would think to defend teammates at all costs? I dunno.
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On June 16 2015 06:00 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2015 05:55 batsnacks wrote:On June 16 2015 05:53 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 16 2015 05:48 batsnacks wrote:On June 16 2015 05:44 ruXxar wrote:
Just to make it clear to everyone.
I wouldn't mind if Sulfur was lynched for his complete lack of contribution.
However, I would much rather try to lynch a mafia than a shitty town any day of the week.
Wanna know the easiest way to tell the difference between mafia and shitty town? Be mafia. Like seriously there is no way you should be able to tell the difference as town given what sulfur has provided, unless you are mafia and you actually know sulfur's alignment. Well except that this would belie that Sulf is actually town and Ruxxar's case is a simple case of TMI, and I have a very hard time believing that Sulf is town. Associations aside I still don't know if I'd lynch Ruxxar first, but I think at this point I'd do it over Rels. Votecount?How many people are still on him actually, because that may be some interesting info too considering how quickly the wagon started at the beginning of the day. If ruxxar and sulfur are both mafia I don't think it's unreasonable to think that ruxxar is defending his scum mate who has all but left their team to fend for themselves. I also don't think it's unreasonable to think that ruxxar's case is TMI. So sulfur's alignment doesn't matter, ruxxar is scummy regardless. Ok so here's a thought. You're a mafia. It's an exciting role yes? If you rolled mafia would you not be more inclined to actually stay alive and win than if you were town? I can understand the IDGAF attitude if you roll vanilla town, but as mafia I would be way more interested in the game. Why would sulfurus STILL not even ATTEMPT to mount some sort of defense? Is he breaking the rules of the mafia game and not playing to WIN? Does he honestly think that I alone am going to be able to save him? Not in a million years when I'm already suspect as mafia.
Actually the vast majority of people hate playing scum. There are a lot of vets on this site who simply do what Sulf is doing in this situation as scum.
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On June 16 2015 06:09 ruXxar wrote:
If for any reason sulfurus flips and he's red, you can lynch me next night 100%, I won't even be mad.
I'm that confident in my read.
Ruxxar do you know what TMI means?
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EPT
