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On May 13 2015 05:40 Trfel wrote:
I suppose I thought that Vivax's scum play was better than it actually is.
But I still prefer lynching Onegu. I would appreciate it if someone would tell my why they do not want to lynch Onegu.
Because carefree Onegu tends to be town Onegu. A few of his more recent posts have looked far more towny in that regard than his earlier posting.
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Donate 8 posts to marvellosity
I shall give you this chance to win my heart for now and until the end of time.
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I'm waiting for Marv to attempt to woo me by adding my case to his own.
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Are you perchance making Pork Chops BH?
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On May 13 2015 07:54 Trfel wrote:
I don't see what is so impressive about Vivax's posting as of late. His posts don't feel like they have any direction or focus, and he isn't elaborating on his main scumreads. He's pushing reads all over the place, but nothing is very well explained or detailed. Furthermore, Vivax is going to be away for a while, so there will be no more information with which to read him.
This is a good point. Leading up to the lynch, thread sentiment is steered roughly equally between Xatalos and Vivax. When Marv starts his push towards BH, votes still split roughly equally between Vivax and Xatalos. Despite Marv and Sandroba giving a less weight and push towards either Vivax or Xatalos and thinking they both may be a bit more likely to be town. Votes from the Vivax wagons disappear disproportionately faster. This can in part be attributed to Vivax being around and posting, but there were numerous people other than just Marv/Sandroba saying essentially that Vivax is posting better. Yet when you compare this situation to an exceptionally similar situation in Imperial, where Vivax went off the fucking deep end and was making series of huge posts repetitively. The wagon just disappeared in a strange way without any realisitic recognition of his posting. That's interesting.
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On May 13 2015 08:12 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 08:11 yamato77 wrote:
I defended your sorry ass last game as mafia
with so many other options, why would I mislynch you over the other scummy fucks in this game, a number of which are likely to be town and also resist less? given that part of the case on me is literally "blazinghand isn't putting up much resistance, which he usually does as town" (a statement that is, of course, once again people not understanding my meta because people is bad) your quesiton is invalid plus you're changing things up
On May 13 2015 05:29 marvellosity wrote:
BH could be mafia after all, because he's joined what is a pretty terrible sandroba wagon when what I posted should at least be enough for sandroba not to be lynched today. I don't understand how he can on one hand shoot down a nuke headed for me and then on the other hand completely ignore my fleshed out opinion on sandroba. I said earlier that I wasn't going to lynch someone who shot a nuke coming down on me, but the arguments about his lack of scumreads ---> sheeping this case on sandroba made my read do an about turn
I was leaning town on Palmar as well, but I also don't understand how he can ask me a question about sandroba, get a fuller response than I normally bother to give (apparently i like talking about good players or something) and then say "well, marv said all that but my points still stand herp derp"
There are also too many outlier votes right now.
I dislike Xata a little less than before, but would lynch in a pinch. Still finding it very difficult to believe that Vivax plays like this as town
##unvote
##Vote: BlazingHand
I don't believe BH "buys" Palmar's case. I think Palmar's case on sandroba is at best misguided tunnelly town and BH has been around long enough (and played with sand enough) to be able to at least grapple with this
On May 13 2015 05:50 marvellosity wrote:
There are 2 lynches that I just introduced where I find it hard to say "the townie motivation is kinda likely". Vivax's play is just SO far off his townplay, it's very very difficult to handwave away.
BlazingHand saving me, and jumping on a weak case on sandroba while not entertaining the counterarguments is also very very difficult to handwave away with a town motivation.
Note: I'm not trying to say Onegu is definitely town here, he may or may not be, but I think lynching him on conjecture is not the right play when we can lynch people with far clearer differentiations
On May 13 2015 07:09 marvellosity wrote:
BlazingHand made a lolreply (more scumpoints from Palmar for me \o/) to Obi where he altered his quote to try to say "well i do this as town as WELL as mafia". The thing was, in... er... Aperture, kita made quite a good meta case about how scumBH doesn't actually do anything where town-BH is strung into action. And that's what's happening here.
The thing with BH is that he's very obviously selectively reading the thread, and disregarding the stuff that he doesn't like.
So it goes
1.Palmar case on sandroba
2.sometime later marv makes a sandroba defence
3.BH sheeps 1, disregards 2
Then I also made my case on BH based on this, but BH ignores it completely and later only responds to my post where I lumped him (or something) in with Vivax, and saying he's not like Vivax. but it totally disregards what i said in the first place. So that's 2 strikes.
I literally cannot reconcile, at all, how he keeps saying we should sheep this Palmar case d1 when it was a really bad case.
Even earlier in the thread he made some post about "Palmar and marv being the only ones possibly more skilled than me" yet it seems like he's totally ignoring me for convenience.
Which part of the case on you includes you putting up resistence?
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On May 13 2015 08:17 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 08:08 TalkingDead wrote:On May 13 2015 07:54 Trfel wrote:
I don't see what is so impressive about Vivax's posting as of late. His posts don't feel like they have any direction or focus, and he isn't elaborating on his main scumreads. He's pushing reads all over the place, but nothing is very well explained or detailed. Furthermore, Vivax is going to be away for a while, so there will be no more information with which to read him. This is a good point. Leading up to the lynch, thread sentiment is steered roughly equally between Xatalos and Vivax. When Marv starts his push towards BH, votes still split roughly equally between Vivax and Xatalos. Despite Marv and Sandroba giving a less weight and push towards either Vivax or Xatalos and thinking they both may be a bit more likely to be town. Votes from the Vivax wagons disappear disproportionately faster. This can in part be attributed to Vivax being around and posting, but there were numerous people other than just Marv/Sandroba saying essentially that Vivax is posting better. Yet when you compare this situation to an exceptionally similar situation in Imperial, where Vivax went off the fucking deep end and was making series of huge posts repetitively. The wagon just disappeared in a strange way without any realisitic recognition of his posting. That's interesting. Then go and find the people who went off me in a scummy way, cause as I see it there's nothing inherently scummy in not wanting to lynch me.
There's not time for that and it doesn't matter this late in the day. It is in no way about trying to find "the scum that unvoted their partners." It doesn't make you scum and it doesn't make Xatalos town. It's the asymmetrical shift that's interesting, both in the sense that people are more willing to move off you and that people are less willing to move off of him. What is interesting about your response is that you've ignored my point about Imperial entirely to pick at the corners of the point I'm trying to make.
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On May 13 2015 08:27 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 08:26 TalkingDead wrote:On May 13 2015 08:17 Vivax wrote:On May 13 2015 08:08 TalkingDead wrote:On May 13 2015 07:54 Trfel wrote:
I don't see what is so impressive about Vivax's posting as of late. His posts don't feel like they have any direction or focus, and he isn't elaborating on his main scumreads. He's pushing reads all over the place, but nothing is very well explained or detailed. Furthermore, Vivax is going to be away for a while, so there will be no more information with which to read him. This is a good point. Leading up to the lynch, thread sentiment is steered roughly equally between Xatalos and Vivax. When Marv starts his push towards BH, votes still split roughly equally between Vivax and Xatalos. Despite Marv and Sandroba giving a less weight and push towards either Vivax or Xatalos and thinking they both may be a bit more likely to be town. Votes from the Vivax wagons disappear disproportionately faster. This can in part be attributed to Vivax being around and posting, but there were numerous people other than just Marv/Sandroba saying essentially that Vivax is posting better. Yet when you compare this situation to an exceptionally similar situation in Imperial, where Vivax went off the fucking deep end and was making series of huge posts repetitively. The wagon just disappeared in a strange way without any realisitic recognition of his posting. That's interesting. Then go and find the people who went off me in a scummy way, cause as I see it there's nothing inherently scummy in not wanting to lynch me. There's not time for that and it doesn't matter this late in the day. It is in no way about trying to find "the scum that unvoted their partners." It doesn't make you scum and it doesn't make Xatalos town. It's the asymmetrical shift that's interesting, both in the sense that people are more willing to move off you and that people are less willing to move off of him. What is interesting about your response is that you've ignored my point about Imperial entirely to pick at the corners of the point I'm trying to make. I think we all kinda know what's going on here. A lot of people moved off of Vivax as soon as there was a lynchbaity wagon (my wagon) to move onto. Wagons that fall apart easily like this in non-PM games tend to be wagons on scum. I think Vivax would be an acceptable D1 lynch, but I actually haven't read his filter or his case. I'm basing this entirely on the fact that Vivax is a really good town player with heroic tier reads and pushing ability, and I haven't passively just NOTICED that he's playing well, which is what I'd expect from him
So Xatalos isn't lynch bait? You're lynch bait?
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On May 13 2015 08:53 rsoultin wrote:
73/76
what i find remarkable is the batshit crazy people screaming about how quickly the lynch dissolved and reformed on blazinghand, seem perfectly fine with this sudden mass-switch to vivax
lol
at hts' bidding no less. i have a townread on her that i may have to revisit, but since when has she been the town rally player?
I'm not. I preferred the Blazinghand lynch. They're both good for entirely different reasons. Blazinghand is definitely more fun to lynch though.
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A few important things. Rsoultin's large posts are really, really off. When I have more time to write up a whole thing I'll do so, but there's very little sense being made in them and she's flat out lying about a few things.
More importantly, I want to address Blazinghand's recent scumclaim here. Blazinghand is an experienced player.
On May 14 2015 02:50 Blazinghand wrote:
...so I'm tentatively going to say I think she's (rsoultin) scum.
This is the most absolutely passive way I've ever seen BH talk about someone as scum. Blazinghand as a player and as a person is exceptionally cocky. Not confident, cocky. He is not unknown for screaming that someone's scum. He will out-talk, speak over other players, bully players, wiggle and litigate arguments, etc. just to get his point across. Blazinghand as town in no fucking way is he ever passive. Occaisionally, he will not play as town or not play as scum. But he's not a player to beat around the bush. As town, he's not going to mince his words. As town, BH will flat out call people scum; scream it from the heavens repeating and readjusting his argument just to convince people to vote with him. THIS IS NOT TOWN BH!!!! Town BH doesn't loosely be willing to agree to talk about how BH thinks a person is scum.
Second...
On May 14 2015 02:50 Blazinghand wrote:Hey Batsnacks, hope you're doing well. I'd like to chat with you about your (link) scumread on Sandro. As far as I can tell, this is your only scumread this game, and in fact that post represents the entirety of your contribution. That, plus the weird poem thing makes me think you've got some kind of Blue role, but nothing actually FITS you knowing Sandro is town or scum during D1. During N0 blue roles get the pm "town" so there's no actions. During D1, msot roles, especially inbestigative ones, don't have actions. For example, I could see you being a Coronor, who can "Can check the alignment and/or roles of unflipped players." according to the OP, but again, it's D1. When I was scumreading Sandro, I didn't think much of it, but since Sandro came through and actually did research about my meta, I don't really think it's possible that Sandro can be scum. He's gotta be town. So now I'm concerned about your read. What's the deal, man?'
Town!BH does not intentially try to out people during the night phase. Generally, outing blues in the night phase is pretty terrible play and BH has scolded people before for doing so. However, this type of play is one that's often seen on video mafia. There are a few potential options that BH is trying to do here:
1. BH is traitor and is trying to get mafia to consider an NK for blue snipe on Batsnacks
2. BH is mafia and is trying to setup a blue claim for his partner Batsnacks
3. BH is town and is trying to get mafia to kill lynchbait Batsnacks
Here's the thing though, BH scolded GlowingBear here for not knowing about no N0 NKs. He knows that roles didn't go out until the end of N0. So BH is in part trying to establish a blue argument on a player based on the 13th post in the game. BH is clearly not trying or thinking critically here because that argument is the dumbfuckfest central. Then he goes on to point out the Batsnacks soft claim. As town, why would BH ever point this out during the night phase? Maybe it's Batsnacks trying to take a bullet. Maybe it's actually a soft. I don't know. But there's literally no point for BH to direct the soft to the thread's attention as town. The potential loss is almost always greater than the potential gain. BH is a player who is will to take risks as any alignment, but this one is that I don't think I've ever seen him take before as town while at least once arguing against such play. So it's pretty easy to eliminate option 3. I don't care if it's 1 or 2, either way he's not town for it.
Marv made an exceptionally sexy post about BH that I want to highlight. When I was looking at BH before and after the lynch, there was at least one exceptionally interesting thing about him. BH deflects from pressure. I don't mean that he pushes it on to other people. Rather, he takes the weakest point of anyone's argument and straw mans the argument so that he looks better. Instead of ever engaging or responding to good arguments (like the one I made that yamato responds to or the extended case the Marv wrote), never once does he address them. In the early case, he engages GlowingBear's weaker argument, never responds to mine and allows thread sentiment to just shift into BillMurray in the silence. In the case of Marv's argument, he interacts with everyone else around Marv's argument. He gets into a shitflinging fest with yamato. He explains how he'll be at dinner for 23 straight hours. He never actually bothers to respond to the main points because it lends credence to the points themselves. While this avoidance is reasonable to good play to avoid being lynched, it is rather telling that BH has continued to play this way.
Building upon a point Marv had made earlier, BH clearly isn't thinking or reading critically in any sense. He tried to point out Batsnacks for being blue based on a post that batty wrote after alignments were handed out but before roles were. I ask you, do you really think that Blazinghand is the type of person or player to not think while he's playing? Does he have a tendency as town to show a pattern of not critically thinking about the game in any realistic sense? Do you not want to lynch the ever living fuck out of him?
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@Hts tldr edition
1. I didn't sheep Palmer. I think Damdred made a point on Vivax early in the game; idk might have been someone else. But that got me to look at Vivax.
2. You're assuming I'm someone I may or may not be and that said presumptuous person wouldn't sheep Marv in that scenario. That's a lot of ifs.
3. Regarding Imperial. I was referring to Vivax posting in that game. His filter was large. He ramped up in posts quickly once pressed (mid-end of D1). He posted often. His posts were huge. Basically exceptionally different from here.
4. There were a few other random things, lack of crazy, etc that pointed that way too.
5. I sheeped Marv because I can. The two were roughly equal and Marv are was voting for one.
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I'm around. Just under the weather. Stomach jumping around.
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On May 14 2015 09:34 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ve, I think it's 50/50 gb shoots him so you better explain.
Otherwise he shoots me.
Shooting you would be good though. Not bad in the least. Shooting Marv would be very bad.
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And haven't looked at Xata since late D1. Fine with lynching him but there are better lynches.
Also. The execute should be used to get rid of afk's and unreadables.
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Have you even read my filter?
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On May 14 2015 10:00 Oatsmaster wrote:
That's not the point. The point is that you are shooting down the lynch I propose without proposing your own lynch. And you aren't doing anything but responding to people since d1. Scummy Bro.
Not even close.
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On May 14 2015 10:36 GlowingBear wrote:
I'm shooting no one until the kingmaker claims
You're an idiot. Even if you got the ability from scum, who cares?
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On May 14 2015 10:40 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2015 10:39 TalkingDead wrote:On May 14 2015 10:36 GlowingBear wrote:
I'm shooting no one until the kingmaker claims You're an idiot. Even if you got the ability from scum, who cares? It means my reads are wrong Dumbass
Which is all the more reason to use it as a policy vig shot. KSC suggesting RoL as the execute is the most sensible thing he's said all game. If it came from town, then maybe they have more. Plus if it came from town then maybe they have more. Idk. Ether way policy shot is good.
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On May 14 2015 11:00 yamato77 wrote:
objectively, the best shot is BH
if he flips, we know a lot about what happened at EOD
That was my initial thought, but after looking back at Sandroba's filter here I'm thinking it's not as interesting.
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On May 14 2015 11:10 batsnacks wrote:
Okay so VE and HTS are both very decent, high risk, high reward shots. They will have to be dealt with eventually though either via claim or flip.
You're a better shot than either of those two.
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EPT
