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Newbie Student Mafia IX - Page 91

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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The Shining
Profile Joined December 2014
United States2406 Posts
May 09 2015 01:58 GMT
#1801
Conclusion: I feel much better voting y0su over ritoky today and will do so in voting thread after this post.

##Vote: y0su
Always and Never are two words you should always remember never to say.
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
May 09 2015 02:20 GMT
#1802
I cc'd dis to try to eat a bullet for the doc and cause confusion abt who the mafia should shoot

I am abt to get an appendectomy in 30 mins so if hosts want to sub me that is fine but I will be highly limited for 24 hrs
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
May 09 2015 02:24 GMT
#1803
It's a classic robik vt play
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
May 09 2015 04:22 GMT
#1804
On May 09 2015 11:24 ritoky wrote:
It's a classic robik vt play


it was not even remotely good tho.Robik turning in his grave
-Celestial-
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom3867 Posts
May 09 2015 11:46 GMT
#1805
On May 09 2015 11:20 ritoky wrote:
I am abt to get an appendectomy in 30 mins so if hosts want to sub me that is fine but I will be highly limited for 24 hrs


Hope everything works alright for you.


But honestly that was a godawful town play. >_>
"Protoss simultaneously feels unbeatably strong and unwinnably weak." - kcdc
-Celestial-
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom3867 Posts
May 09 2015 11:47 GMT
#1806
I mean at the risk of banging on the same drum over and over there is absolutely no way they don't shoot the first claim here. None.
"Protoss simultaneously feels unbeatably strong and unwinnably weak." - kcdc
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 09 2015 12:06 GMT
#1807
So y0su, Stutters has flipped mafia vanilla.

We're down to one scum. What has changed? Why? You didn't have thoughts on Stutters all game either. Why?

On May 09 2015 05:48 y0su wrote:
I don't have much time to answer everything...

I would shoot you. I'm bad at reading what people post, but I think I'm catching on to some of the logic behind moves.

Why did Super get RB'd and FF NK'd?

The events leading up to EoD1 have Super pushing hardest for the train to move from scott to HtS. Let's assuming our two roles are indeed Doc/Vig. Why RB Super and NK FF? I thought FF's play towards the end of the day was a bit weak, why NK him? Medic dodge?. Yes, but why? Super was coming strong after HtS (when I read it later I thought it was just an attempt to get a 2nd train - especially with how he decided he didn't want a d2 lynch of HtS.) But what if scum didn't read it that way (at least during the night?) Now, there were 3 people on the HtS wagon (one being Prpl) and one vote on Prpl (so 3 potential vigilantes to look out for). They guessed right and RB'd the biggest danger to HtS (If HtS wasn't scum, WHY RB SOMEONE GUNNING FOR HER??). Now, why not just kill Super? Again, with his EoD charge against HtS it would look kind of obvious to kill him (and there's the possibility that he had a doc visit since Ritoky + Show Spoiler +
beyond pro play by dis to pick up the CC in place of Ritoky, just a shame Ritoky thanked him instead of keeping up the charade
was on that train as well and might have anticipated the danger to Super.

Beyond that, I think SL and his "I do math for a living - trust me" is my "wtf stutters is town" #3.

Anyway, been a long and hard day (had to put my cat down today) and I have a tournament to wake up early for tomorrow. (I'll recheck the thread in about 15 min before going to bed)

[/QUOTE]

If you still think it's either sicklucker or myself, what behaviour based actions are you seeing to draw those conclusions?
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 09 2015 12:08 GMT
#1808
Or alternatively do you think there is something between either of the scum flips (prplhz d2 or stutters n2) that indicates one of us? Or someone else?
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 09 2015 12:10 GMT
#1809
I'd like to see answers to these questions.

Or alternatively you can provide a baby seal which would save us all some trouble.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 09 2015 12:13 GMT
#1810
And since you're new in case you're not aware, posting a picture of a baby seal basically means you're claiming scum. Where it came from, I think something about a scummer in a past game posting that picture when he tried to blue claim or something.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 09 2015 12:15 GMT
#1811
The point of the matter is I'm having a difficult time realising you're not fabricating your reads.

But I can see the wifom argument coming from a newb townie. So I want a behaviour based argument.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 09 2015 14:03 GMT
#1812
On May 09 2015 11:20 ritoky wrote:
I cc'd dis to try to eat a bullet for the doc and cause confusion abt who the mafia should shoot

I am abt to get an appendectomy in 30 mins so if hosts want to sub me that is fine but I will be highly limited for 24 hrs


On May 09 2015 11:24 ritoky wrote:
It's a classic robik vt play


Do you really think you would have achieved anything with that?
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 09 2015 14:05 GMT
#1813
On May 09 2015 10:23 sicklucker wrote:
No ritokys a confident mafia he can think thats a good idea in a newbie game. And what he did is null its just classic filler to have more posts.

Reading yosus filter all im sure of is that hes not afraid to post which is a town tell for a first time mafia. His logic is flimsy but he posts what he thinks. Not what his scum qt tells him


Which is why I'm curious to hear his answers.

What do you think is the difference between newbie town and newbie scum? I'm guessing he's waiting for answers from the mafia qt? How do you know others weren't advising him?
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 09 2015 14:05 GMT
#1814
I mean there's a shittonne of time between answers but I don't know.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 09 2015 14:06 GMT
#1815
But y0su should probably answer something before too long. If he's town, he should show us, that.
For sheer amusement:

The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
May 09 2015 16:33 GMT
#1816
Firstly reactions to EoN. Nice kill Super! Clearly my read on Stutters was a bit off, suppose I've been tunneling SL pretty hard D2. Setting up town 7 to 1 for D3 onwards seems like pretty much sure town win, 3 days to sort out the last scum? (2 days of bad lynches puts us 3v1 Mylo) I like them odds.

So, we have Superbia, -Celestial- and Half the Sky all pretty much confirmed town. I might give -c- and HtS one more filter dive later on today as a formality, but I don't expect to change those reads the rest of the game.

I'd like to put myself in that group but given my D1 vote and that I was pushing for Vig shot on SL other than Stutters I get the suspicion. Still would like to know why HtS says I'm parroting here, besides her I've seen TS and ritoky voice concerns about me but haven't seen anything solid for me to respond to. If you guys are still scum reading me, care to share why?

I've been a little back and forth on The Shining, but re-reading his D2 has him solid town for me. I was also in the same mindset as him last night phase not wanting to dive too deep into ritoky's CC (CCC?) for doc given that discussion only had benefits for Mafia until Day phase. + Show Spoiler +
-c- makes a good point, that mafia is unlikely to shoot anyone but Dis there. Still no reason to point it out for them.


That leaves 3 people who I've been scumming for the past day or so, y0su, ritoky and, SL.

Shoot, was going to get into better reads on them but I need to take off for a little bit. I wont be gone long, soon as I get back will be filter diving these 3 and giving you guys my reads.
I can take that responsibility.
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 09 2015 17:21 GMT
#1817
Tictock, I missed that and I also wanted to comment more on sicklucker's posts on ritoky on page 89 because I want to bring up another point on ritoky. But to answer your question first.

First off, I said this on all the newbies and not just you at different points in the game. When you presented your reads, especially after others had made the same conclusion, it was difficult to tell whether you really felt what you were saying (or really came to that conclusion) or whether you just copied what others were saying. Sheeping (copying/parroting) in of itself is not a problem provided that you are sheeping honest town reads. A lot of what you had said was after what others had said. Veterans often (and this includes myself) get scumread for that.

That said, even in my first game (student 4, link in my profile) as town vanilla, I did sheep a few reads D1/D2 and I almost got lynched for it D2. Fellow town Oatsmaster saw newbie scum in me and I was just a split second from getting hammered.

However, newbie town and newbie scum generally do this a bit, so for me to make a solid case against you, I'd have to fully filter dive you and follow your progression. But given the amount you've been doing it, for awhile I felt I might need to keep my eye on you a bit.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 09 2015 17:40 GMT
#1818
On May 09 2015 10:05 sicklucker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2015 02:00 ritoky wrote:
prp is town because i literally mind melded him here:

On May 03 2015 08:40 prplhz wrote:
On May 03 2015 08:34 The Shining wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and be as useless as always D1. Let's do this. Willing to lynch Super, FF, Scott so far.

Super wants to lynch Scott for opening with a town claim. FF and Super willing to lynch Scott off that. It's cuz Scott looks bad off of an unpressured town claim. FF and Super setting up to bus Scott d1 if needed.

Super, FF, Scott scumteam gg

this is rubbing me the WRONG WAY




insanely weak reason to tr a mafia


Guess what sicklucker? Guess who tried to get me lynched on this? I also said I had a major problem with this too.

Then ritoky comes out with this, which I mentioned why I had a problem with all this D1.

On May 05 2015 01:26 ritoky wrote:
i like hts because she is keying into the same posts as me

i dislike hts because she is having opposite reactions to them.


Off of one post without reading my filter he said this:

On May 05 2015 04:54 ritoky wrote:
wtf, this is way too diplomatic sounding. has damdred taken over your account and taught you the diplomacy voice?


Then the full blown scumread - this read is very contrived which I contested afterwards.

On May 05 2015 05:01 ritoky wrote:
reasons being: you're noticing the same things i am but reading them opposite, you have an overly diplomatic tone that also feels forced, you're interested in a lot of things but not pushing for them, you don't feel obviously town, and your early reads were primarily summary reads that others had already made.


The above is very contrived.

The best part is that he uses tone to defend Superbia (when I pushed him) and then used it off one post to push me. I know him and Shining discussed that, the problem with ritoky's response is that he said that tone was my primary argument against Superbia. Actually. it wasn't.

Here are the pertinent quotes from ritoky.

On May 04 2015 02:03 ritoky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2015 02:01 y0su wrote:
On May 04 2015 01:54 ritoky wrote:
On May 04 2015 01:46 Superbia wrote:
Ritoky you want to share your scum reads so far or do you just wanna chill and see for a little?


maybe scott and maybe shining atm are my top 2. not particularly firm on either. am moreso looking for towns right now.

i think me, ff, -c- are pretty much town. then superbia, and prp are 2nd tier town for now.

been busy (working on my lists when I get to sit at the computer) quite curious about how you put someone on your team (even t2) with just a few posts?


he made one of the highest quality observations in the thread in regard to shining and i had literally the exact same thought reading the exact same thing:

Show nested quote +
On May 03 2015 08:40 prplhz wrote:
On May 03 2015 08:34 The Shining wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and be as useless as always D1. Let's do this. Willing to lynch Super, FF, Scott so far.

Super wants to lynch Scott for opening with a town claim. FF and Super willing to lynch Scott off that. It's cuz Scott looks bad off of an unpressured town claim. FF and Super setting up to bus Scott d1 if needed.

Super, FF, Scott scumteam gg

this is rubbing me the WRONG WAY


Show nested quote +
On May 03 2015 08:41 prplhz wrote:
like he's trying to make up some excuse for being useless and then he tries to solve the game and that like 30 posts into the game


he is also giving definitive alignment reads instead of hedging. if i remember prp's play right he hedges a lot more as mafia.


This response is straight up wrong. Could also be trying to take some attention off prplhz.

Unfortunately Superbia did something similar, but I don't think he made a tonal argument against me.
More or less and he's confirmed vigilante.

So how do we know ritoky wasn't parroting off him? He called superbia and prplhz town.

Even worse, he tried to deflect using vote logic (which I argued can be contorted to fit a mafia agenda) by saying that there's no way that two scum would be on my wagon out of three. I had argued prior that ritoky's rationale for trying to push my lynch based on tone was pretty screwy because he accused me of being diplomatic off one post. When I was actually pretty forceful on Superbia.

Voting helps narrow, but I'm glad you're seeing the same thing I am sicklucker. I don't buy mindmelding at all, not on D1, anyone can say at any time that they mindmeld with people. It's something you can confirm to yourself and use to draw conclusion for yourself, but at the same time, making that a primary argument to the thread, there are so many things wrong with that.

I want to stress this quote again:

On May 05 2015 05:01 ritoky wrote:
reasons being: you're noticing the same things i am but reading them opposite, you have an overly diplomatic tone that also feels forced, you're interested in a lot of things but not pushing for them, you don't feel obviously town, and your early reads were primarily summary reads that others had already made.


I explained to ritoky why the first point does NOT make me scummy, yet he proceeded to push my lynch.

Pages 35-39 have the progression of things.

On May 05 2015 05:45 ritoky wrote:
and there's such a tonal shift between this:

Show nested quote +
On May 05 2015 05:37 Half the Sky wrote:
On May 05 2015 05:01 ritoky wrote:
reasons being: you're noticing the same things i am but reading them opposite, you have an overly diplomatic tone that also feels forced, you're interested in a lot of things but not pushing for them, you don't feel obviously town, and your early reads were primarily summary reads that others had already made.


1 Already rationalised the opposite reads. If you agree to disagree, fine.
2 I've made points against my two top scumreads (additional against Scott/original against Superbia), neither of which are or have been in the thread as of late to further engage. But there are three scummers in this setup, so why not just keep digging and seeing what else turns up?
3 Diplomatic tone (reading what you just posted) was from one post. Go back to how I cased Superbia and tell me that's diplomatic. In fact I would think #1 (your point on reading them opposite) contradicts the fact that I'm diplomatic. The post you quoted, I'm looking for followthrough from Tictock in case you couldn't tell.
4 The "don't feel obviously town" is about as bad as it gets as you could apply that to half the players in this game right now. That's a PoE argument best saved for late game.

Plus you were more interested in Stutters when you threw your vote on me. There are some flaws in your logic. Particularly #3.

Try again.


and this:

Show nested quote +
On May 05 2015 04:51 Half the Sky wrote:
On May 04 2015 05:23 Tictock wrote:
Both Superbia and The Shining made some eyebrow raising early game plays, but they appear to be contributing now and I can easily see the early game stuff being sillyness or just attempts at pressure. No real reads on them.

I'm getting pretty strong town vibes from y0su, disformation, and ritoky. I really like disformation's attempts to poke and ask questions. y0su is my weakest read of these 3, but feels like a solid town.

Everyone else... well there simply isn't enough out of prplhz or sicklucker to really go off of. Not much to go off of Stutters695 either, another person who states he "doesn't do day 1" which is pretty meh but NAI.

Pretty much all I got for now.


On May 04 2015 16:16 Tictock wrote:
I left HtS out of my earlier reads due to just joining the thread. That was awhile ago and HtS did not provide much besides some suspicions against Superbia. Getting a scum read for now until there is something to show otherwise.

As for Superbia, I'm having a hard time getting a solid read now. I was getting a scum vibe from his play the first half of D1 here but he is looking more town here near the end of the day. I want to keep an eye on him but atm he doesn't seem like a good lynch.

prplhz is looking pretty scum to me right now too. He made one post with actual content and even that was mostly an excuse as to why he isn't posting.

Scott put himself in a position where he looked pretty bad, but lately he's bee making an effort and seems fairly calm given the suspicions around him. That feels town to me, he's not ignoring what ppl say about him but he's not focused on defending himself either.

prp and HtS really need to contribute, SL and Stutters are also barely active & have contributed nothing solid thus far.


I am really curious to see what Tictock has to say on Superbia particularly on the exchange between him and Celestial if he has any input or even between that and Shining. Both disinformation and myself are also headscratching on him at the moment, and one of my issues with Superbia is that particular exchange. I realise he's partying hard (happy birthday btw!) but look forward to a response when he returns.


in terms of my 3rd point. you're actually pushing me on the points i made above, which is cool and i can get behind that. yet here you're curious and in passive voice and not actively seeking responses or answers, which i can't get behind and sounds mafia being diplomatic style.


It's very difficult because I can see this going both ways on him. There were a lot of gaps in his logic as well in his SK/third party game (which is anti-town role btw, but not mafia).

The only thing that complicates things is that Superbia also scumread me for reasons that didn't make me mafia either, though it didn't help RL nearly canned me D1.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 09 2015 17:41 GMT
#1819
If I had to rank the three that I want to lynch, in this order.

1 y0su
2 ritoky
3 sicklucker

I will probably go through filters for everyone else to make sure no one is slipping by.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 09 2015 17:41 GMT
#1820
EBWOP - and to be honest, sicklucker is a policy lynch based on how close his town/scum metas are. But I'm a bit more confident now that he might be town here.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
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