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On April 29 2015 03:28 rsoultin wrote:
hmmm
so, you're saying it doesn't look like either of his games, but you think it's more likely scum than town?
what makes you want to lynch him the most, though?
I think it's more likely scum than town because the way he's been playing is easier to do than what he normally does as town coupled with the fact that he dislikes playing scum. His town games I considered have also been more recent.
What makes me want to lynch him the most, and this is less meta and more just general is that he focuses so much on small things like the BH thing, my comment regarding BH/Palmar and then only commenting on me whilst ignoring pretty much everything else going in the thread other than a passerby comment on Trfel, then stepping off and joining the Wave bandwagon as soon as my bandwagon dies down.
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But if you're saying that this isn't how yamato77 normally plays... Which I suppose is the impression that I got from the first part of his filter in Student V, but again, this is a slower game and it has fewer people...
And his inactivity as of late is suspicious as well.
I guess I just have a really hard time seeing how meta applies so specifically to this game. And thus WaveofShadow is probably the best lynch using only simple meta that would still apply to a 9 player, slow game.
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mmmm he did seem to drop you
lol a lot of us dropped you
i don't know, honestly...like his points on wave weren't bad at all when he made them, though he hasn't really done anything with it since
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So, Breshke. First thought: Filter length. I've analyzed before that his filter length as scum is slightly shorter than his towngame on average. Last two games:
Mafia:
Metal Mini: 1page per 21.5 pages alive
NYE: 1page per 17.6 pages alive
Town:
Student: 1 page per 13.4 pages alive
Horn of Africa: 1 page per 16.5 pages alive
This game: 1 page per 9.833 pages alive
Activity wise, he's more active than he's probably ever been. Though it isn't the strongest meta, I'd say it does vouch in favour of him.
Tonewise, I also think is similar to his towngames. I've mentioned this before.
Rsoultin has mentioned two cores thing for her scumread on Breshke: Lacking in original thoughts, and not scumreading anyone. I'd like to add to that that I've felt his scumgames showed a certain amount of TMI in his reads, and he goes for the easy targets. He went after Coag in Metal Mini for posting songs which is not alignment indicative, as an example.
The problem I have with Rso's comment regarding original thoughts is that it's uncheckable without going through entire games and I'm not willing to invest THAT much time into digging into his meta. Presuming she's correct, it's right that Breshke hasn't given much original thought this game. However, I didn't feel that way during LXX either so it's not really a reason for me to scumread him.
Not scumreading anyone: This game, I don't think that's true. He's voted BH, he's voted Yamato and he still thinks Yamato is scum. His reasons haven't been particularly original, but he is pushing someone. He's also gone after Rsoultin earlier, though he never ended up voting her.
TMI: Possible. He townreads a lot of people, but it hasn't been apparent the way it has been in previous games. Doesn't really feel the case.
Picking the easiest targets: Not really the case either. He's gone after Rsoultin who seems pretty much unlynchable and is unwilling to vote for Wave, still believing Yamato to be the most likely person to flip scum. Going for Wave would probably ensure his survival, yet he's unwilling to do so. This'd be a weaker argument if Wave is scum too, but even then it's unlikely that neither of them is getting lynched.
Overall, I'm still pretty confident in Breshke being town. He's much more active than in his scumgames in the past, his tone checks out and the meta I pointed out all feels like it's coming from town Bresh.
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On April 29 2015 03:35 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 03:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I think I might actually want to lynch Yamato. Going through a few of his towngames he comments on so many more things than he has this game, where he's been really fixated on a very small amount of things (BH whom he didn't really have a strong read on one way or the other but still comments on, the thing I commented on regarding Palmar/BH, and later just tunneling on me with a passerby comment on Trfel until I'm no longer a popular target when he just jumps the bandwagon onto Wave). It feels like his radar is much smaller than it usually is on towngames. I scrolled through Guilty, for example, and pretty much every post comments on someone else. LXVII, same thing though less so. Devil, same thing.
Problem is that his play isn't really similar to his last scumgame where he tried either (Survivor). However, I'd argue that Yamato has commented on how much he's disliked playing scum (it's in the big post at the end of Survivor). I'd also argue that his focus on small things/singular people is easier to do than his usual towngame. It also feels very convenient how his reads match town sentiment all the time, swapping to lynching Wave as soon as I'm no longer a viable target. But there are a few holes that I see in this. First, I don't think that it is inherently anti-town to focus on one thing at a time and jump around like yamato77 has been doing. What really matters is how you evaluate and consider everything at the key times (approaching a lynch), and yamato77 seems to be willing to consider everything when he is evaluating potential lynches. As for following the thread sentiment and not commenting on as much, it is a smaller game, and it is a slower game. To be honest, I don't feel like there is generally much to talk about that isn't the "thread sentiment". So while this doesn't look good for yamato77, and I could see myself lynching him, I can't confidently say that this makes him scum. Sort of like how I can't confidently scumread Breshke for having no unique pushes this game. Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 12:43 Breshke wrote:On January 18 2015 12:39 Damdred wrote:
So you have no scum leans at least? None its shit i know. I'm going through and rereading again, especially the longer posts like geripts because i didn't really read them well. Who is your biggest scum right now? In addition to Breshke being cautious with his scumreads, this is a hard game.
There's a difference between only commenting on things that town sentiment is talking about and literally following all of thread sentiment. I don't think Yamato has swayed from it in anything other than BH, but even then he didn't push it in any real way which actually makes him look worse. The only thing that actually makes me doubt on him is the way he treated me and took a reasonable approach regarding me. It felt kinda townie, but I can't ignore the rest of the game.
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I THINK I want to lynch Yamato over Wave today.
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meh -_-
fine i just give up on bresh
##unvote
i highly doubt i'm wrong but i'm not going to keep banging my head against a wall. i'll just use it for end game cred
i don't know how to explain that there's just something really off about the timing of his reads or that they lack the originality and insight that they should have when you insist that he was doing the same in Guardians and I feel that was his classic towngame and y'all were insane for lynching him to begin with
i can't explain my tone/meta hybrids correctly. i've tried so many times and it's never worked. i'm done
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If you could point out some of the original thoughts he had in Guardians that he feels lacking in here that'd help a lot, though I can imagine it's difficult to point them out after the game.
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On April 29 2015 03:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 03:35 Trfel wrote:On April 29 2015 03:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I think I might actually want to lynch Yamato. Going through a few of his towngames he comments on so many more things than he has this game, where he's been really fixated on a very small amount of things (BH whom he didn't really have a strong read on one way or the other but still comments on, the thing I commented on regarding Palmar/BH, and later just tunneling on me with a passerby comment on Trfel until I'm no longer a popular target when he just jumps the bandwagon onto Wave). It feels like his radar is much smaller than it usually is on towngames. I scrolled through Guilty, for example, and pretty much every post comments on someone else. LXVII, same thing though less so. Devil, same thing.
Problem is that his play isn't really similar to his last scumgame where he tried either (Survivor). However, I'd argue that Yamato has commented on how much he's disliked playing scum (it's in the big post at the end of Survivor). I'd also argue that his focus on small things/singular people is easier to do than his usual towngame. It also feels very convenient how his reads match town sentiment all the time, swapping to lynching Wave as soon as I'm no longer a viable target. But there are a few holes that I see in this. First, I don't think that it is inherently anti-town to focus on one thing at a time and jump around like yamato77 has been doing. What really matters is how you evaluate and consider everything at the key times (approaching a lynch), and yamato77 seems to be willing to consider everything when he is evaluating potential lynches. As for following the thread sentiment and not commenting on as much, it is a smaller game, and it is a slower game. To be honest, I don't feel like there is generally much to talk about that isn't the "thread sentiment". So while this doesn't look good for yamato77, and I could see myself lynching him, I can't confidently say that this makes him scum. Sort of like how I can't confidently scumread Breshke for having no unique pushes this game. On January 18 2015 12:43 Breshke wrote:On January 18 2015 12:39 Damdred wrote:
So you have no scum leans at least? None its shit i know. I'm going through and rereading again, especially the longer posts like geripts because i didn't really read them well. Who is your biggest scum right now? In addition to Breshke being cautious with his scumreads, this is a hard game. There's a difference between only commenting on things that town sentiment is talking about and literally following all of thread sentiment. I don't think Yamato has swayed from it in anything other than BH, but even then he didn't push it in any real way which actually makes him look worse. The only thing that actually makes me doubt on him is the way he treated me and took a reasonable approach regarding me. It felt kinda townie, but I can't ignore the rest of the game. Yamato's recent analyses of you and WaveofShadow were actually fairly good. And he was being reasonable.
His inactivity is concerning, and he has been jumping around in his focus, but I just can't feel comfortable lynching him....
Part of me just wants to lynch all three (Breshke, WaveofShadow, and yamato77) and hope that both scum are between them. I'm just having such a hard time getting significantly more confident in any one lynch.
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On April 29 2015 03:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
If you could point out some of the original thoughts he had in Guardians that he feels lacking in here that'd help a lot, though I can imagine it's difficult to point them out after the game. Breshke was among my strongest townreads in Student VII (I replaced in) for having a ton of great townreads and insightful comments.
Yes, it's a student game, but I haven't seen a single instance of these insightful comments from Breshke in this game. He's been sensible, but not inspiring.
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On April 29 2015 03:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
If you could point out some of the original thoughts he had in Guardians that he feels lacking in here that'd help a lot, though I can imagine it's difficult to point them out after the game.
some of it is also just the timing of his reads here, art...like when no pressure is on he's just absent or asking questions that lead nowhere
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On April 29 2015 03:58 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 03:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 29 2015 03:35 Trfel wrote:On April 29 2015 03:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I think I might actually want to lynch Yamato. Going through a few of his towngames he comments on so many more things than he has this game, where he's been really fixated on a very small amount of things (BH whom he didn't really have a strong read on one way or the other but still comments on, the thing I commented on regarding Palmar/BH, and later just tunneling on me with a passerby comment on Trfel until I'm no longer a popular target when he just jumps the bandwagon onto Wave). It feels like his radar is much smaller than it usually is on towngames. I scrolled through Guilty, for example, and pretty much every post comments on someone else. LXVII, same thing though less so. Devil, same thing.
Problem is that his play isn't really similar to his last scumgame where he tried either (Survivor). However, I'd argue that Yamato has commented on how much he's disliked playing scum (it's in the big post at the end of Survivor). I'd also argue that his focus on small things/singular people is easier to do than his usual towngame. It also feels very convenient how his reads match town sentiment all the time, swapping to lynching Wave as soon as I'm no longer a viable target. But there are a few holes that I see in this. First, I don't think that it is inherently anti-town to focus on one thing at a time and jump around like yamato77 has been doing. What really matters is how you evaluate and consider everything at the key times (approaching a lynch), and yamato77 seems to be willing to consider everything when he is evaluating potential lynches. As for following the thread sentiment and not commenting on as much, it is a smaller game, and it is a slower game. To be honest, I don't feel like there is generally much to talk about that isn't the "thread sentiment". So while this doesn't look good for yamato77, and I could see myself lynching him, I can't confidently say that this makes him scum. Sort of like how I can't confidently scumread Breshke for having no unique pushes this game. On January 18 2015 12:43 Breshke wrote:On January 18 2015 12:39 Damdred wrote:
So you have no scum leans at least? None its shit i know. I'm going through and rereading again, especially the longer posts like geripts because i didn't really read them well. Who is your biggest scum right now? In addition to Breshke being cautious with his scumreads, this is a hard game. There's a difference between only commenting on things that town sentiment is talking about and literally following all of thread sentiment. I don't think Yamato has swayed from it in anything other than BH, but even then he didn't push it in any real way which actually makes him look worse. The only thing that actually makes me doubt on him is the way he treated me and took a reasonable approach regarding me. It felt kinda townie, but I can't ignore the rest of the game. Yamato's recent analyses of you and WaveofShadow were actually fairly good. And he was being reasonable. His inactivity is concerning, and he has been jumping around in his focus, but I just can't feel comfortable lynching him.... Part of me just wants to lynch all three (Breshke, WaveofShadow, and yamato77) and hope that both scum are between them. I'm just having such a hard time getting significantly more confident in any one lynch.
They were okay, but they followed thread sentiment to the T. He had supposedly strong reasons to scumread me, then 15 minutes later jumps on Wave and never mentions me again. Doesn't try to get a better read on me or anything like that, and doesn't mention why he doesn't scumread me anymore. His case on Wave also came at a time when everyone was already scumreading Wave, so eh.
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i just expect breshke if he doesn't have reads to be actively trying to rectify it, looking at things different ways. he admits he has only one scumread
okay that's fine and maybe even townie, but he's not doing anything about it
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On April 29 2015 04:00 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 03:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
If you could point out some of the original thoughts he had in Guardians that he feels lacking in here that'd help a lot, though I can imagine it's difficult to point them out after the game. Breshke was among my strongest townreads in Student VII (I replaced in) for having a ton of great townreads and insightful comments. Yes, it's a student game, but I haven't seen a single instance of these insightful comments from Breshke in this game. He's been sensible, but not inspiring.
I just think it's much more likely he's got an off game content wise than for all these other factors that I've mentioned that were present in his scumgame to suddenly have changed.
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he's not pushing yamato
he's not trying to figure out whose alignment he has wrong
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fine i'll try to find what worked in guardians for me -_- i just don't know if i should be wasting my time since you seem so closed to it, artanis, in all honesty
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This post from Guardians already looks more insightful than almost all of Breshke's posts in this game, for example. And I didn't have to look very far at all before I found it, it's his third post of the game, haha.
This post is pretty good too.
Here, he makes an observation and finds something suspicious.
And that's just in his first page of filter. I guess that game isn't necessarily the best example, as his posting rate was so low and he was behind the thread for most of it, but I noticed the same thing to a much higher degree in Student VII.
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Hm, Trfel, I see what you mean. Yeah, he was definitely a lot more insightful there than he has been here. I just don't know if that makes him scum.
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Artanis, I have a really really stupid tone read question for you.
For most of this game, WaveofShadow has been frustrated and mad, or at least seemed that way to me.
Since he started being scumread, his tone became very reasonable and withdrawn, he didn't feel frustrated at all (the notable exception being his argument with rsoultin). But that seems to be a strange difference for me.
One possible explanation is that he spent most of this time discussing with me (who apparently he has decided is extremely weak and sensitive, thus he can't show frustration or I will go cry to my mommy). But I'm not sure that I buy this, so I wonder if that makes him look more scummy.
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EPT
