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On April 27 2015 07:30 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Basically, Breshke is so completely unconcerned with getting towncred when his mafia game is notoriously weak that I find it incredibly unlikely for him to be scum. unless you can demonstrate that he normally is concerned with this as scum, i don't see why it matters? his town game isn't this weak in my experience with him. i am exceedingly unimpressed with him this game -_- and that is rarely the case when he's town
I mislynched him in LXX and I see so many resemblances to that this game. I've also gone through his scumgames before and they are markedly different, though I'll do it again if you insist.
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Obviously some of it was trolling, but when he actually started providing reasons, I wouldn't consider it trolling.
His reason to scumread WaveofShadow (WaveofShadow wasn't interested in his alignment) is actually true. However, I have the impression that WaveofShadow gets angry a lot, so this would be an expected response from WaveofShadow. Regardless of this, it still doesn't make WaveofShadow scum.
His scumread on yamato77 (associative bit aside) wasn't bad either. It still doesn't make yamato77 scum, though.
I suppose I feel like he did those things at random times. Maybe I'm wrong, and he posted these when he needed to, to survive. Or maybe Artanis is right and he knows what he needs to do to survive, and he posted these to cut off suspicion before it began.
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On April 27 2015 07:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:30 rsoultin wrote:On April 27 2015 07:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Basically, Breshke is so completely unconcerned with getting towncred when his mafia game is notoriously weak that I find it incredibly unlikely for him to be scum. unless you can demonstrate that he normally is concerned with this as scum, i don't see why it matters? his town game isn't this weak in my experience with him. i am exceedingly unimpressed with him this game -_- and that is rarely the case when he's town I mislynched him in LXX and I see so many resemblances to that this game. I've also gone through his scumgames before and they are markedly different, though I'll do it again if you insist.
if you can show me any sign of his being invested in this game, i'd appreciate it more ^^
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On April 27 2015 07:32 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Goddamnit, let's try this again. I think you removed the comment in between that I made, so I deleted it from the quotes too. On April 27 2015 07:25 Trfel wrote:On April 27 2015 07:15 WaveofShadow wrote:On April 27 2015 07:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Basically, what's weird to me about Palmar is how Wave is his prime suspect, yet he never really goes to full lengths to get him lynched or research him, but rather just goes after Yamato when thread sentiment is turning against Yamato making him an easier mislynch (presuming Yamato is town). It doesn't seem like he's all that concerned about getting Wave lynched. His vote on him is completely meaningless too with no thread support and him not trying at all to get people on board the Wave train. He's never added anything to his initial case. See that's the thing about Palmar. He never seems concerned enough to do anything, ever. If you can somehow tell by meta that this is town/scum Palmar by all means but as far as in-thread confidence goes I still have him at least townier than null. I actually disagree. Palmar knows that if all he does is troll, it will be somewhat hard to lynch him. Instead, Palmar started reading the game and making actual cases (cases which I don't think were all that good, but they were definitely serious cases). I don't think that these cases help Palmar at all, in fact they might actually hurt him, I think that really his motivation was to find scum (even if not enough to make him play the game properly). Quick question, his reason to scumread WaveofShadow wasn't the initial reason that he forgot, right? It was a different reason? I disagree. I think if he does nothing but troll and other people look townie, he'll probably end getting lynched at some point in this lineup. The fact that the cases weren't good when Palmar is good is telling as well as the fact that he hasn't tried reinforcing them. As for his scumread on Wave, it was part tone, part the analysis on the votes made on Wave. lol this is bullshit. i've seen plenty of bad palmar play and i'm a noob -_- don't try blowing smoke up my ass, artie
I've seen plenty of good Palmar play too. I've played with him in LXI where him and BC took turns writing cases on everyone in the game when they were convinced of each other as being scum. I'm not saying Palmar is a surefire scum at all, or that what he's done is impossible to come from TownPalmar. I'm saying that the way he's pushed so far make me feel he's more likely scum than town, especially considering other reads.
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On April 27 2015 07:35 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 27 2015 07:30 rsoultin wrote:On April 27 2015 07:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Basically, Breshke is so completely unconcerned with getting towncred when his mafia game is notoriously weak that I find it incredibly unlikely for him to be scum. unless you can demonstrate that he normally is concerned with this as scum, i don't see why it matters? his town game isn't this weak in my experience with him. i am exceedingly unimpressed with him this game -_- and that is rarely the case when he's town I mislynched him in LXX and I see so many resemblances to that this game. I've also gone through his scumgames before and they are markedly different, though I'll do it again if you insist. if you can show me any sign of his being invested in this game, i'd appreciate it more ^^
I thought his explanation of why he flipped his read on you was good, for one. He could've just shrugged it off and made some excuse as everyone was townreading you, but he gave specific reasoning after pushing you for a while.
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On April 27 2015 07:32 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Goddamnit, let's try this again. I think you removed the comment in between that I made, so I deleted it from the quotes too. On April 27 2015 07:25 Trfel wrote:On April 27 2015 07:15 WaveofShadow wrote:On April 27 2015 07:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Basically, what's weird to me about Palmar is how Wave is his prime suspect, yet he never really goes to full lengths to get him lynched or research him, but rather just goes after Yamato when thread sentiment is turning against Yamato making him an easier mislynch (presuming Yamato is town). It doesn't seem like he's all that concerned about getting Wave lynched. His vote on him is completely meaningless too with no thread support and him not trying at all to get people on board the Wave train. He's never added anything to his initial case. See that's the thing about Palmar. He never seems concerned enough to do anything, ever. If you can somehow tell by meta that this is town/scum Palmar by all means but as far as in-thread confidence goes I still have him at least townier than null. I actually disagree. Palmar knows that if all he does is troll, it will be somewhat hard to lynch him. Instead, Palmar started reading the game and making actual cases (cases which I don't think were all that good, but they were definitely serious cases). I don't think that these cases help Palmar at all, in fact they might actually hurt him, I think that really his motivation was to find scum (even if not enough to make him play the game properly). Quick question, his reason to scumread WaveofShadow wasn't the initial reason that he forgot, right? It was a different reason? I disagree. I think if he does nothing but troll and other people look townie, he'll probably end getting lynched at some point in this lineup. The fact that the cases weren't good when Palmar is good is telling as well as the fact that he hasn't tried reinforcing them. As for his scumread on Wave, it was part tone, part the analysis on the votes made on Wave. lol this is bullshit. i've seen plenty of bad palmar play and i'm a noob -_- don't try blowing smoke up my ass, artie
What?
Are you saying Palmar is good here or normally good and here he's not?
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On April 27 2015 07:39 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:32 rsoultin wrote:On April 27 2015 07:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Goddamnit, let's try this again. I think you removed the comment in between that I made, so I deleted it from the quotes too. On April 27 2015 07:25 Trfel wrote:On April 27 2015 07:15 WaveofShadow wrote:On April 27 2015 07:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Basically, what's weird to me about Palmar is how Wave is his prime suspect, yet he never really goes to full lengths to get him lynched or research him, but rather just goes after Yamato when thread sentiment is turning against Yamato making him an easier mislynch (presuming Yamato is town). It doesn't seem like he's all that concerned about getting Wave lynched. His vote on him is completely meaningless too with no thread support and him not trying at all to get people on board the Wave train. He's never added anything to his initial case. See that's the thing about Palmar. He never seems concerned enough to do anything, ever. If you can somehow tell by meta that this is town/scum Palmar by all means but as far as in-thread confidence goes I still have him at least townier than null. I actually disagree. Palmar knows that if all he does is troll, it will be somewhat hard to lynch him. Instead, Palmar started reading the game and making actual cases (cases which I don't think were all that good, but they were definitely serious cases). I don't think that these cases help Palmar at all, in fact they might actually hurt him, I think that really his motivation was to find scum (even if not enough to make him play the game properly). Quick question, his reason to scumread WaveofShadow wasn't the initial reason that he forgot, right? It was a different reason? I disagree. I think if he does nothing but troll and other people look townie, he'll probably end getting lynched at some point in this lineup. The fact that the cases weren't good when Palmar is good is telling as well as the fact that he hasn't tried reinforcing them. As for his scumread on Wave, it was part tone, part the analysis on the votes made on Wave. lol this is bullshit. i've seen plenty of bad palmar play and i'm a noob -_- don't try blowing smoke up my ass, artie What? Are you saying Palmar is good here or normally good and here he's not?
I presumed she said that she's seen Palmar play terrible as town as a response to me saying he's playing terrible here.
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Again this is par for the course on Palmar as far as I'm concerned because I haven't played games with him in which he's done anything but variations on this, and I'm really trying to avoid meta, something you clearly aren't concerned with, Artanis.
Like, I'd vote Palmar if I see a concrete reason that's not meta-related as to why he's scum but I don't really see it.
I'm assuming we're going another day at this point, btw?
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yup that's what i was saying ^^ palmar can play badly as town; it doesn't make him scum
lol >< how many times do i have to say that townreading me is like completely not alignment indicative at all?
dude, someone else had to point out to him that he was parroting me, and frankly i ooze town as town it's why i get night-killed early so often; it's definitely not because i'm a scary player for most scumteams to have to play against -_-
artanis, he randomly townread me. it took like over 24 hours to get an explanation on that shift, because it wasn't explained at the time. no that doesn't show investment in the game. try again
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Ugh... can someone tell me the key points that happened between pages 41 and now?
Specifically, why did people stop scumreading yamato77?
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On April 26 2015 18:33 yamato77 wrote:
So why do you think Artanis just drops his strongest read within just a page of the game and votes someone he had previously had a strong meta-townread on?
All post-hoc justification aside, it looks like an unnatural switch, even given the case. You can't also look at it so small-mindedly in that your vote was the only one, the case was gaining traction given the multiple people who commented on it in some capacity.
My read on you shouldn't really even matter. I think you're a rather forgettable player that many people seem to townread. That's about the extent of it without delving deeper.
^ liked this post
On April 26 2015 15:40 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 15:24 rsoultin wrote:
lol the thing about you yamato is i like you when you post (the majority of the time) :/
so what was going on at EoD D1?
were you really more sure about BH who you thought we should give more time to than say artanis and wave who you'd been pressuring most of the game earlier?
what happened during that 40 minutes of silence when you disappeared right before deadline? eod D1 I felt like it was most important to have a read on BH, as no one else was really being pushed as a lynch target and not much else was being discussed at that time, trfel looked kinda bad to me but wasn't a clearly good lynch. given that you disagreed with my read of him and no one else even was around to comment on it. I liked artanis' line of questioning of trfel also at the time so it was difficult to see him as scum when he had the exact same criticism of trfel's play that I did. Wave I need to read more in depth. I have this bad tendency of just glazing over his posts because they are generally quite wordy and it's difficult to get a handle on his play. I still think his early play was odd but I really need to revisit him. Honestly, the eod D1 thing was also sort of selfish in that I wanted more time to reformulate my reads. I felt a bit lost at that point and saw I was failing to convince people to wait and see with BH so I just sort of stopped playing. It was bad but only you and Artanis were even around and you weren't budging. Meh. I'll read Wave and Artanis' filter and post more concrete thoughts. I really haven't read anything posted this cycle so >_>
plus this just reads pretty believable to me?
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On April 27 2015 07:44 WaveofShadow wrote:
Again this is par for the course on Palmar as far as I'm concerned because I haven't played games with him in which he's done anything but variations on this, and I'm really trying to avoid meta, something you clearly aren't concerned with, Artanis.
Like, I'd vote Palmar if I see a concrete reason that's not meta-related as to why he's scum but I don't really see it.
I'm assuming we're going another day at this point, btw?
I think the fact that he isn't digging further into you further but randomly takes a left turn on Yamato when it's convenient, then jumps off, goes back on you when it crashes and soft accuses me in the meantime is a very clear non-meta reason. You're actually using meta to defend him here in that he can do this as town rather than the opposite. Yes, it's possible that he does this as town. That doesn't mean it's the most likely answer.
I'm good with extending the day myself.
On April 27 2015 07:44 rsoultin wrote:
yup that's what i was saying ^^ palmar can play badly as town; it doesn't make him scum
lol >< how many times do i have to say that townreading me is like completely not alignment indicative at all?
dude, someone else had to point out to him that he was parroting me, and frankly i ooze town as town it's why i get night-killed early so often; it's definitely not because i'm a scary player for most scumteams to have to play against -_-
artanis, he randomly townread me. it took like over 24 hours to get an explanation on that shift, because it wasn't explained at the time. no that doesn't show investment in the game. try again
I'm not really that interested in defending Breshke at this point anyway since no one but you really wants to lynch him. He's a big boy, he can fend for himself when he's around.
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On April 26 2015 07:41 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 06:48 yamato77 wrote:On April 22 2015 06:45 rsoultin wrote:On April 22 2015 06:43 yamato77 wrote:On April 22 2015 06:38 rsoultin wrote:On April 22 2015 06:37 yamato77 wrote:On April 22 2015 06:34 rsoultin wrote:On April 22 2015 06:31 yamato77 wrote:
like, the advantage of IML to me is that it's REALLY easy to put pressure on people by just piling a few votes on and making that player respond to them
alignments are generally more obvious as someone is going to get lynched
in a normal game, you really only get the chance to do this to like, one or two people per day
but in IML you can do it to literally every person
sure, we have all the time in the world, but it's stupid to waste it waiting on known trolls like BH/Palmar to play the game then who do you want to lynch in the next 2.5 hours, yama? the point is the threat of the lynch you use it actively as a tool to force people to play the game you don't use it passively and hope they play the game then do it? no one is stopping you do you think he's town, or something? Why do you wish to play foil? xP i'm going to vote for who i think is scum, and i'm not interested in rushing a vote today. i think artie wanting to give bh/palmar time to participate isn't scum-favored and this whole push is silly -shrugs- but he's actively using it as an excuse to do fuck-all himself. Like, he's waiting on the two players in this game that I would have ZERO expectation to suddenly become active of their own free will. Maybe you don't have the history with BH/Palmar but I do, and Artanis should know better than to passively wait for them to play. I'm fine with the idea of not lynching today, but you can't just sit back and expect the game to come to you. I was rereading Yamatos filter, and I really really like this post. and exchange If you didn't explain this already, why did you say this? (if you did, I'll find it eventually, no need to respond, sorry)
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On April 27 2015 07:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:44 WaveofShadow wrote:
Again this is par for the course on Palmar as far as I'm concerned because I haven't played games with him in which he's done anything but variations on this, and I'm really trying to avoid meta, something you clearly aren't concerned with, Artanis.
Like, I'd vote Palmar if I see a concrete reason that's not meta-related as to why he's scum but I don't really see it.
I'm assuming we're going another day at this point, btw?
I think the fact that he isn't digging further into you further but randomly takes a left turn on Yamato when it's convenient, then jumps off, goes back on you when it crashes and soft accuses me in the meantime is a very clear non-meta reason. You're actually using meta to defend him here in that he can do this as town rather than the opposite. Yes, it's possible that he does this as town. That doesn't mean it's the most likely answer. I'm good with extending the day myself. Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:44 rsoultin wrote:
yup that's what i was saying ^^ palmar can play badly as town; it doesn't make him scum
lol >< how many times do i have to say that townreading me is like completely not alignment indicative at all?
dude, someone else had to point out to him that he was parroting me, and frankly i ooze town as town it's why i get night-killed early so often; it's definitely not because i'm a scary player for most scumteams to have to play against -_-
artanis, he randomly townread me. it took like over 24 hours to get an explanation on that shift, because it wasn't explained at the time. no that doesn't show investment in the game. try again I'm not really that interested in defending Breshke at this point anyway since no one but you really wants to lynch him. He's a big boy, he can fend for himself when he's around.
Ugh, fair point, though the confidence isn't meta on its own. Too fucking hard to completely remove meta from the equation when you've played with everyone 10000 times.
Rsoul I totally see what your problem is by the way, and you outlined it perfectly yourself earlier.
You're WAY more likely to townread someone when they just talk to you. Anybody can explain away anything with enough time. Like, you ultimately townread me when I explained my early voting to you but it wasn't enough for some people I don't think (whether a good/true explanation or not). Go look through yamato's filter and show me what his goals have been this game.
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Oh and again, assuming we're extending the day (which I'm pretty meh on either way) my activity dies out pretty hard after this evening. I'll do what I can but no promises.
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xP i'm right woot!
seriously though there's just not a good instance that shows breshke is actually trying to solve the game in any meaningful way. i don't really even understand some of the posts y'all point out as "townie" to be honest. like "i wrote it down, not that this means anything" ummmm...like okay? why couldn't scum say that? why would town feel the need to say it was written down? it's just...i don't get it -_- maybe i'm bad and that really IS enough to make up for doing jack-all to actually find scum but, i just don't see it
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On April 27 2015 07:59 rsoultin wrote:
xP i'm right woot!
seriously though there's just not a good instance that shows breshke is actually trying to solve the game in any meaningful way. i don't really even understand some of the posts y'all point out as "townie" to be honest. like "i wrote it down, not that this means anything" ummmm...like okay? why couldn't scum say that? why would town feel the need to say it was written down? it's just...i don't get it -_- maybe i'm bad and that really IS enough to make up for doing jack-all to actually find scum but, i just don't see it
But why do you find Breshke scum for this and not Trfel? I would argue there posting has been similar in that regard.
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On April 27 2015 07:58 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 27 2015 07:44 WaveofShadow wrote:
Again this is par for the course on Palmar as far as I'm concerned because I haven't played games with him in which he's done anything but variations on this, and I'm really trying to avoid meta, something you clearly aren't concerned with, Artanis.
Like, I'd vote Palmar if I see a concrete reason that's not meta-related as to why he's scum but I don't really see it.
I'm assuming we're going another day at this point, btw?
I think the fact that he isn't digging further into you further but randomly takes a left turn on Yamato when it's convenient, then jumps off, goes back on you when it crashes and soft accuses me in the meantime is a very clear non-meta reason. You're actually using meta to defend him here in that he can do this as town rather than the opposite. Yes, it's possible that he does this as town. That doesn't mean it's the most likely answer. I'm good with extending the day myself. On April 27 2015 07:44 rsoultin wrote:
yup that's what i was saying ^^ palmar can play badly as town; it doesn't make him scum
lol >< how many times do i have to say that townreading me is like completely not alignment indicative at all?
dude, someone else had to point out to him that he was parroting me, and frankly i ooze town as town it's why i get night-killed early so often; it's definitely not because i'm a scary player for most scumteams to have to play against -_-
artanis, he randomly townread me. it took like over 24 hours to get an explanation on that shift, because it wasn't explained at the time. no that doesn't show investment in the game. try again I'm not really that interested in defending Breshke at this point anyway since no one but you really wants to lynch him. He's a big boy, he can fend for himself when he's around. Ugh, fair point, though the confidence isn't meta on its own. Too fucking hard to completely remove meta from the equation when you've played with everyone 10000 times. Rsoul I totally see what your problem is by the way, and you outlined it perfectly yourself earlier. You're WAY more likely to townread someone when they just talk to you. Anybody can explain away anything with enough time. Like, you ultimately townread me when I explained my early voting to you but it wasn't enough for some people I don't think (whether a good/true explanation or not). Go look through yamato's filter and show me what his goals have been this game.
meh i'm not going to? like that's the very thing i was questioning him on...i'm fully aware how bad his EoD1 looks, but i did like some of the pushes and analysis and i'm willing to give him the time to see if the trend continues or not
and yes -_- i have a weakness for townreading the people who talk to me, and i know for a fact people are talking to me a certain why because i'm essentially unlynchable at this point -_- i'm not stupid...i really feel like it's probably better if i disengage if we don't lynch today just to see how the rest of you interact, but the last time i tried that: dead thread
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On April 27 2015 08:00 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:59 rsoultin wrote:
xP i'm right woot!
seriously though there's just not a good instance that shows breshke is actually trying to solve the game in any meaningful way. i don't really even understand some of the posts y'all point out as "townie" to be honest. like "i wrote it down, not that this means anything" ummmm...like okay? why couldn't scum say that? why would town feel the need to say it was written down? it's just...i don't get it -_- maybe i'm bad and that really IS enough to make up for doing jack-all to actually find scum but, i just don't see it But why do you find Breshke scum for this and not Trfel? I would argue there posting has been similar in that regard.
lol >< no, it really hasn't
truffle actually has had and pushed scumreads...perhaps not with overwhelming confidence, but they're clearly not the same
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EPT
