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yeah i got that holyflare if that's what you are referring to.
that's why my response. 
for the topic, i don't know. i kinda always have posted much. when i play i play, and usually my posts always have some agenda, town/scum depending on my affiliation. it's probably because i originally came here from games that were mostly done by IM's -- that has lead me to interact with people in "real time" more than to look for "scummy posts".
in my opinion the playstyle has changed throughout the years i have played here towards the direction i said above. people are just too good as scum (even the just above worst) to be figured out by some single post or a couple of posts.
and i agree with holyflare with how to / how easy it is to read the thread. you can easily tell which posts are relevant and which are not in a spammy (or "spammy") game.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On February 12 2015 03:23 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2015 14:30 Holyflare wrote:posting less really REALLY hurts my scum game though  i don't even read content anymore i've pretty much evolved to skimming through posts in someones filter and looking at the overall jist of their filter and reading their behaviour etc and I still find mafia..... my last cases have been hts - asking questions and nothing else, not solving game rsoul - not like town, excuses and reactive jat - lame and lame koshi - boring compared to normal and not following up from obs qt in linux There's a lot in your post to talk about Holyflare, but I think this is the most important. How important is a psychotically active filter in making these types of cases? I'd argue that it makes no difference - those observations can be made in a far less active game without all the spam. All the activity does is add to the chaos and make the relevant information harder to find. You have a talent for parsing through the chaos, but most don't have such an ability. Show nested quote +reading 20 pages takes like 10 minutes if everyone is just having a conversational game and I really don't see the complaint people have when they are behind unless they analytically study each page in exact detail which is silly....If there were 4 pages of wall of texts then that is far more of a hassle to me than 20 pages of sentences I think you're in the minority here, judging from the responses. I personally find less-posts and more-content easier to parse through and read than the chaos of 1-liners. It makes individual posts be more memorable. Show nested quote +everyone has a play style to adapt to and yes, conversational styles in the most part don't really work at finding mafia for a lot of people because they just haven't played the game enough and don't remember a word of what they've said in their filters and in that case they are dumb and shouldn't play conversationally! However, it allows you to ADAPT your reads far more quickly to a situation. If you post a giant wall of text and are wrong you've wasted a colossal amount of time into that wall of text and the research behind it whereas spammy style you're just constantly gathering information I don't want to get into an argument about style, mostly because it's disingenuous for me to tell a good player with a style he has found success with that they are playing "wrong." My audience is pretty much everyone other than you. On a personal viewpoint of style though, I find that posting more often makes me adapt with thread sentiment too much. I need a layer of separation from the game to maintain a level of objectivity needed to be accurate. Show nested quote +it's really no coincidence at all that mafia lynches d1 are ever increasing because the spammy style is more conducive to actually finding mafia because their overall play becomes so much more apparent the more they post and commit to a direction My theory is that spam hurts bad scum players and helps good ones. Inexperienced ones are picked off quickly, overwhelmed by the spam, while skilled/experienced players are quick to take advantage of the chaos. Show nested quote +if people really don't like reading spammy games then there should be post restriction games in a separate queue to normals but be warned that those games will 9/10 times end up in mafia victories imo because the people that join them will be low content/low post count players which are the hardest players to read in this entire forum I think this is a ridiculous assertion. I've never had problems reading low-post count players, nor have others on this site years ago. The insane expectations of activity are a crutch and not a leg to stand on.
There's a line that I can't seem to filter through between inactive townies who just cba to play that much and mafia hiding in the shadows. These are the biggest problems and pretty much only problem in finding mafia for me. The higher the amount of posts the more psychoanalysing I can do on that person.
I guess because I have a lot of time I can be actively separating what I'm typing and what I'm thinking about in terms of the whole game though. I don't think spam helps scum more than town at all though, if the spammers are good at least.
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On February 12 2015 03:16 Hapahauli wrote:
I would encourage you to have higher standards for your play. But your standards are your own I suppose.
What do you mean? Clearly what I'm doing scares the fuck out of mafia because it forces them to kill me because I usually have good reads. I'm not sure what you're trying to say
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Posting 1 page full quality is my dream. I have tried to post less as town but I just find it less enjoyable.
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On February 12 2015 03:44 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2015 03:16 Hapahauli wrote:
I would encourage you to have higher standards for your play. But your standards are your own I suppose. What do you mean? Clearly what I'm doing scares the fuck out of mafia because it forces them to kill me because I usually have good reads. I'm not sure what you're trying to say
That's really not true.
People who get hit on N1 are not the best town players because of the fear of the doctor.
Yes they are good, but never the best because the best player is the obvious doc target.
True story, do you ever wonder why marv is not on that list?
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
you know when you're the real mafia threat when they know there could be a doc and they shoot you anyway
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On February 12 2015 03:56 Holyflare wrote:
you know when you're the real mafia threat when they know there could be a doc and they shoot you anyway
i have never shot marv on D1 despite him being always the "real mafia threat". I usually shoot someone like Wave or BH.
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I think games where I've been mafia I've shot hf like three times or something silly like that.... and doc saved him once and rayn once :'(
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On February 12 2015 03:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2015 03:44 IAmRobik wrote:On February 12 2015 03:16 Hapahauli wrote:
I would encourage you to have higher standards for your play. But your standards are your own I suppose. What do you mean? Clearly what I'm doing scares the fuck out of mafia because it forces them to kill me because I usually have good reads. I'm not sure what you're trying to say That's really not true. People who get hit on N1 are not the best town players because of the fear of the doctor. Yes they are good, but never the best because the best player is the obvious doc target. True story, do you ever wonder why marv is not on that list?
This is partially inaccurate. Eden (for example) was a "medic dodge" in Imperial, but his reads were 100% spot on and he was playing very well. I think this is true of many of my games too. There are plenty of people who get killed n1 over "good" players because their reads are right, in conjunction with the medic dodge type thought.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On a personal viewpoint of style though, I find that posting more often makes me adapt with thread sentiment too much. I need a layer of separation from the game to maintain a level of objectivity needed to be accurate.
I partly agree with you, and I generally need to force myself to take a step back at points.
The other side of this is that when you're in the thread, conversing, getting involved with everything... you get a sense of what is right and what is not right given what's happening at the time; whether a post is appropriate, that's somewhat harder to glean when you're reading from a more detached viewpoint. There was one post from rsoultin at the beginning of Horn, I picked it out as awful, but no-one else could see what i was getting at or understood. Only HF had similar feelings about rsoultin than I did at the time.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Show nested quote +On February 11 2015 11:49 Damdred wrote:
In all of my ramblings and thought vomit I think the conclusion would be, people just have to regulate themselves its not that town wins or loses on big or small post counts, its that town wins or loses based on the content of the posts that they pay attention to... This is pretty much what I'm getting at. The quality of posts determine the strength of a town. The quantity is irrelevant, and likely detrimental. And if people focused on quality of posts, the quality of play and games on this site would improve.
I don't think it improves or harms town significantly in most cases. As the size of threads has increased, the town win rate has remained pretty much constant. There are some players who are really effective with this style and there are others who aren't. The biggest issue in my opinion is the experience that it creates.
Assuming that you have the same chance of winning in a 100 page game and a 300 page game and both games are played at a relatively high level, which would you prefer? On a similar note, if you had the opportunity to play 2-3 100 page games or a single 300 page game, which would you prefer? I would much rather play multiple games (not at the same time) spending a couple hours on each game each cycle than a single game where I'm spending five hours each cycle, but I'm sure others would prefer the other way around.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
would be interested to see a d1 mafia lynch to d1 post count ratio somehow 
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
It isn't a direct comparison to post count, but if you compare the games played in the last couple years to the games 3-5 years ago, the d1 lynch percentage goes up by a couple percent (excluding newbies) and d2 and later lynch percentage goes down by a slightly smaller margin. I don't think that it's large enough to outweigh the random variance with only a couple hundred games, but I'm no statistician.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Don't forget that there are other confounders too. Different players, different setups, different rules.
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It could be worse, I could also be playing!
There are 2 things with this:
1) At times you want to post some thoughts to get feedback, watch reactions of other players, and get some discussion going (if you are not very sure about some things). It also may come down to the innate misconception that the more information there is out there, the better it will be (since the only thing you have to do is reread the thread and analyze it all to find the scummerz!). Yet the more info there is out there, the more garbage there is too, and filtering out the important info becomes harder and harder
2) At times (maybe most of the time) you just need to constantly post to feel how the thread is going. If you realize someone is "active", doing back and forths with him, and taking notice of other people's activity while doing so can give you lots of information ("when we were discussing player X being scum, player Y was suspiciously silent, yet when we started discussing stuff about player Z he suddenly started posting more and more"). This is something you just don't get when rereading someone's filter for isolated posts. Context is very very important (and it's easier to gauge while constantly posting, than by just coming on every once in a while and rereading filters).
I use this stuff a lot, and is one of the methods that gives me the biggest "tells", specially in the last hour before deadline. Take this away from me and I'll have shitty reads (at least until I adjust at reading people "properly")
It's difficult. By doing so you gain a lot of stuff yourself, but you make the game harder for others, and you get less accuracy when rereading the thread (have to wade through a lot of garbage, etc). But not doing it may just not give you enough information or feeling about other players for you to be confident in any read.
In games where you have mason circles and whatever with another active townie it is better though (if they post at all of course -_-).
I think that ultimately the best solution is just having small games, of 11-15 players. With this you can do the above but still have a relatively small thread, so everybody wins.
On February 11 2015 14:32 Holyflare wrote:
shadow mafia was literally the MOST painful game in the world to read because it had a shit tonne of walls of text that lead absolutely nowhere and you had to waste an inordinate amount of time reading them just to come to the conclusion that they were wrong and you lost a chunk of your life reading it
weren't you scum though (and replaced)?
Admitedly, that game was a pain in the ass to read (past d1), leading to a lot of confusion (at least from my part)
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Im surprised a 13 person game got anywhere close to beating chrono trigger mafia in page number
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Yeah, I don't have time to play much anymore and the increasing post count doesn't help. Though come on guys, 50 page filters are so 2013. My personal preference will always be less posts and that was the style that a lot of games had when I started many years ago. I remember when getting to 100 pages was a lot haha.
Honestly, it just depends on the players and hosts. Host more post count restriction games if needed. If people play and enjoy them, then continue to host them, if not, don't. Simple as that.
On February 12 2015 10:07 GreYMisT wrote:
Im surprised a 13 person game got anywhere close to beating chrono trigger mafia in page number
Wasn't that broken by another game, or am I remembering incorrectly?
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On February 12 2015 12:15 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2015 10:07 GreYMisT wrote:
Im surprised a 13 person game got anywhere close to beating chrono trigger mafia in page number Wasn't that broken by another game, or am I remembering incorrectly?
The old record:
Chrono Trigger: 7663 replies
Better, but good enough?:
TL LXIII: Time To Die: 7903 replies
Nope, the grandfather of them all:
PYP LoL: 8443 replies
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incorrect, Imperial broke that record
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and it didn't even have holyflare in it, if you can believe
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EPT
