EPTVII Titanic Mini Mafia: I Have a Cunning Plan... - Page 214
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:08 IAmRobik wrote: He claimed a red check on palmar, not you ahahahha I'm so bad lol seriously though rayn. when you're dealing with idiots you gotta be able to speak their language, you know? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:11 Blazinghand wrote: seriously though rayn. when you're dealing with idiots you gotta be able to speak their language, you know? no i don't know... and i even don't wanna know. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
and if bh wonders why people don't sheep him... couldn't possibly have to do with comments like those sprinkled throughout his play xP | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:08 IAmRobik wrote: He claimed a red check on palmar, not you awkward | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
Like, what I'm trying to say is, you got lynched. And you're mad at people for lynching you for what you perceive as bad reasons, especially since your reads were basically 100% solid. The thing is, it is at least a tiny bit your fault for getting lynched, even if people have shit reasons. On August 18 2011 19:43 Palmar wrote: Mig got it. I don't know what you're saying GM, I'm not even sure which part you're disagreeing with. I'm not saying there is no such thing as bad logic, what I'm saying is that if town is accepting bad logic over good logic, it's your responsibility to use bad logic so you can push your ideas. I don't think your comparison to starcraft is fair, because starcraft has measurable statistics that can blatantly be improved upon. In mafia there really is no such thing as definite bad play and good play. My point is that the problem is the people who get themselves lynched. Let's create an example: + Show Spoiler + You're in a game with 7 players, two of them are mafia. It's day 1, and town lynches some vocal but controversial player (Palmar) who flipped, quite predictably to GMarshal the town hero, town. The lynch was mostly based on the fact that one of the townies (Jackal) suggested that Palmar may have been trying to hard to be pro-town, and must therefore be scum, so one of the mafia (Sandroba) and the rest of town (Curu and Deconduo) quietly agreed with the lynch based on Jackal's logic. Sandroba pushes the idea a bit to help secure Deconduo's vote. GMarshal had meanwhile nailed the one mafia (sandroba) contradicting himself and being overly cautious given his usual aggressive nature on day one, in addition, it's against Sandroba's usually critical behavior to agree with such an obvious townie lynch as Palmar. GMarshal wrote an analysis on Sandroba, but town mostly ignored him, although Palmar was never going to agree with a lynch on himself and shouted quite heavily for people to read GM's analysis, and cast his vote on Sandroba. In addition, the clever lurking mafia Kenpachi also voted for his scumbuddy Sandroba. So in the end, Palmar gets lynched based on jackal's accusation he was trying too hard to be pro-town, and the votes end as follows: Palmar: 4 Deconduo Curu Jackal Sandroba Sandroba: 3 GMarshal Palmar Kenpachi And Palmar get's lynched. So reading the above example, let's look at what usually people perceive happened in this game, and what really needs to be looked at, here is what I think is both an incorrect, and a correct analysis of day 1, and who is to blame. + Show Spoiler + So, in this situation it's typical for Palmar to call the town terrible for not listening to logic and lynching Sandroba. GMarshal who will obviously get shot during the night is just going to rage a bit about people for not picking up on his logic. In addition, when Kenpachi cleverly instantly buses Sandroba on day 2 for massive town cred, and a guaranteed victory in lylo, GMarshal is going to feel really justified when Sandroba lynches scum. "Only if you had listened to me on day 1" And the worst part, the player more responsible than anyone else for the town losing, Palmar, is going to come back in the postgame and call Jackal an idiot for pushing the lynch on him. Jackal will of course be hanged on day 3, after mafia kills deconduo, and Kenpachi and Curu are the last 2 standing, resulting in a mafia victory. Very often this will result in Palmar and GMarshal somehow feeling they played okay, but the town was just bad so they lost beacuse of that. This is wrong Both are terrible, and need to shut up and look at their own play. GMarshal looked pro-town on day 1, no one talked about lynching him, and he instantly nailed mafia with a good analysis. GMarshal played terribly. I don't give a fuck what you know if you can't convince town to follow your logic. If what it takes was using some retarded logic like Jackal's "Palmar is trying too hard to be pro-town", to get the lynch, that's what GMarshal should have done. Now, I'm not saying Curu's, Jackal's and Deconduo's play is excusable, because they're also bad for not seeing that GMarshal was pushing a correct analysis. But there seems to be this thing around here where we focus way too much on blaming the people who make the incorrect decisions, and far too little blame on people who make the right decisions, but cannot push them. Everyone played terribly on day 1. And the worst fucker of them all? Palmar. Palmar is ridiculously bad this game. He allowed himself to get lynched by another townie on shitty reasoning. Thing is, after the game, Palmar won't recognize this, he'll be mad at the "bad town" who lynched him with such "obvious scum" alternative. But the truth of the matter, Palmar just failed at making people realize he's town. I don't give a shit how stupid the reasons where, if that's what it takes, Palmar should've made up some terrible reasons to clear himself. If you get lynched, it's your own fault. Notice that I'm not trying to reduce the blame on the town heroes who lynched an obvious town on bad logic on day 1. I'm just pointing out that peopel who were right like GMarshal, are equally much to blame for being unable to push their ideas, and the person who gets lynched is the most to blame. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:16 Blazinghand wrote: Like, what I'm trying to say is, you got lynched. And you're mad at people for lynching you for what you perceive as bad reasons, especially since your reads were basically 100% solid. The thing is, it is at least a tiny bit your fault for getting lynched, even if people have shit reasons. Probably yes. I just fail to work with idiots. May that be my fault i am thank-fucking-ing the god that's the way it is. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:19 Blazinghand wrote: Like, people generally make fun of my play but despite the fact that I'm only a slightly above-average scumhunter with very above-average good looks, I rarely get lynched. I'm willing to pander to not get lynched. I'm willing to pull anything out of my ass to not get lynched. Now, I don't focus on improving this part of my play, since the weak point in my play right now is probably scumhunting, but that doesn't mean it's not an important part of my play. I used to care about getting lynched but not any more. I get lynched for two reasons as town: (1) I have reads that are too good and the town is too shit (2) i lynch myself true story. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: I used to care about getting lynched but not any more. I get lynched for two reasons as town: (1) I have reads that are too good and the town is too shit (2) i lynch myself true story. you're a valuable and capable player, rayn. I am disappointed that you don't feel a need to not get lynched. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Anyway, I'd like to request a warning for rsoultin for PMing LightningStrike about the game while it was still going on. I understand where it's coming from but you shouldn't do that, it's against the rules for a reason. At the same time a warning to LightningStrike for talking about it in the thread, PM a mod and keep it out of the thread. A ban is way too much but I don't think things like that should happen and a warning is a signal to everybody that it's not allowed or tolerated. Dunno how this warning/ban list thing works, if host/cohosts have to push everything for their own games or if I should just go to the ban list thread with my complaint. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:32 Blazinghand wrote: you're a valuable and capable player, rayn. I am disappointed that you don't feel a need to not get lynched. that's on you. mainly on you in this game. i can get people playing bad because i play bad from time to time. i don't get people intentionally trying to destroy the town like you did in this game for no reason. why the fuck should i care when noone else cares? i put the max effort to this game when i was able to and i got posts like "you are going to get lynched, no matter what you say" -- from YOU. so maybe you should think about how you play this game instead of how i do and why i do feel what i do... | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: that's on you. mainly on you in this game. i can get people playing bad because i play bad from time to time. i don't get people intentionally trying to destroy the town like you did in this game for no reason. why the fuck should i care when noone else cares? i put the max effort to this game when i was able to and i got posts like "you are going to get lynched, no matter what you say" -- from YOU. so maybe you should think about how you play this game instead of how i do and why i do feel what i do... Oh, I admit that I fucked up this game, but it wasn't intentional. Like, I'm still not sure what I should do in future games to tell VA as town from VA as scum. You can say what you want about meta, but when a guy's meta is to literally not post, what are you to do? I also had some good reads, like townreading Eden (Rather than scumreading Eden when I had every motivation to scumread Eden) and townreading slam. I screwed up by giving Palmar too much time, and screwed up by pushing on LS, though at least I didn't bury him. I had bad reads, yeah, but hey, that's life. I'll try to do better. You had bad defense, but you won't try to do better, and that's your call buddy. That's entirely your call. Just don't expect sympathy from me. And you were going to get lynched, no matter what you said. It was the truth, and I wasn't afraid to say it. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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LightningStrike
United States14277 Posts
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: My defense was perfect. I told everyone who mafia was. rayn, dude, you happened to be right this time, but unless you think that 1) everyone is going to have as good reads as you and 2) will therefore recognize that you have the entire mafia team and are not mafia yourself what your reads were during your lynch has no bearing on whether you were lynched or not. You didn't sell them any of us on a platter. You didn't convince them how townie you were. In essence, you were lynched because of your lack of credibility, and people not being able to follow your scumreads. It doesn't even matter what your reads were. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:45 LightningStrike wrote: Ya I do deserve a warning or a ban for my reaction to it >.< I'm pretty sure you're the only one on this forum who thinks you deserve a ban for it. I just think a warning is in order to clarify the rules so it doesn't happen again (not necessarily with you, with anybody). | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On February 26 2015 05:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: My defense was perfect. I told everyone who mafia was. i mean, clearly it was not perfect, right? Like, claiming your ability to dodge knives is "perfect" right after you get stabbed isn't really convincing On February 26 2015 05:47 prplhz wrote: I'm pretty sure you're the only one on this forum who thinks you deserve a ban for it. I just think a warning is in order to clarify the rules so it doesn't happen again (not necessarily with you, with anybody). I agree with prplhz on this. | ||
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