BH's "case" is in the + Show Spoiler +On February 21 2015 08:05 Blazinghand wrote:OK, so all of the dead townies were townreading LS. The only one who wasn't was the one who was shot last night (Robik), by the scumteam. So, here's one of Robik's, um, last benedictions? Robik was shot N2 but during N1 he was serious. Later one he gives scumreads of LS, prplhz, damdy and rsoultin. HE was, of course, right about damdy. Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 07:13 IAmRobik wrote:On February 17 2015 07:07 LightningStrike wrote:On February 17 2015 06:58 Palmar wrote:On February 17 2015 05:53 Town Puppy wrote:
Notable nulls: Palmar, ray, HtS. I just haven't read enough of any of their posts. I still feel like HtS wouldn't fakeclaim miller, and I think 2 Jk, 2 mill, 1 cop is probably legit. So I guess she's town but this is predicated on a yolo read so yeah.
I liked what Palmar said when he posted and I didn't like ray's tone when he posted. But it's weak. Eh.
It's official. I am stuck in some kind of an eternal purgatory where no one will be sure I'm town. Ever. I been townreading you for since I started to see you would do shit on the weekend when normally you CBA to do shit on the weekend :O LYNCH LS TOMORROW. DO NOT FUCKIGN QUESTION IT. JUST DO IT. I MAY NOT BE AROUND, BUT YOU HAVE ONE FUCKING MISSION AND THAT'S TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS PERSON DOES NOT SURVIVE TIL TOMORROW. I MAY OR MAY NOT EXPLAIN WHY IN POSTGAME, BUT YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST THAT THIS READ IS ACCURATE. PALMAR -- IT'S KINDA LIKE THE READ I GAVE ON YOU IN HEAVYWEIGHT. PLEASE JUST FAITH. Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 10:11 IAmRobik wrote:
cause people don't fucking listen to me and it's fucking annoying. I made a raelly really really strong meta case for why rayn was town -- you guys lynched him anyway. Both rayn and i are telling you that VA is town...you insist on trying to lynch him. I said that LS was mafia like 3 fucking days ago, and now that someone made a "real case" people are on board. Like what fucking games are you twits playing This is his final post. HE wants LS dead. I would like to note (and this is just for you, dead Robik) that Robik never actually writes a case on LS. Times he mentions LS or LightningStrike are always things like "trust me LS is scum" or "I'll explain later" which is annoying as crap. hmm, if only a confirmed townie had a scumread on LS well, onto the main show I guess, Slam, here's what happened overnight. So, LS and ritoky are talking and LS says this: Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 07:13 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 07:08 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 06:57 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 06:53 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 06:36 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 06:28 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 06:18 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 06:15 LightningStrike wrote:
[quote]
The non confirmed players are either Mafia or SK and I finding you as either the SK or Mafia by Process of Elimation from all my reads and the confirmed towns were claimed roles or mod confirmed (BH) and then I decided to go meta reading players and elimated but the 5 in the non confirmed pile so that means that you are either A. Mafia or B. Serial Killer. I mean, explain how I have "mafia traits" from my meta in depth plz. examples necessary. Ya when you are Mafia you tend to super tunnel on someone for Example me in Carol of the Bells and Dr.H in Imperial. This game you been tunneled on HTS and now Me and this is the type of trait I associate with you when you are Mafia. Although i remember you Mass Murderer Slip was hilarious in Carol  I mean you're right I tunnel as both alignments. you obviously don't care very much about this read since you weren't willing to actually go find examples like asked. your read is not only bad, but made up. I am not tryharding enough to be scum this game, and there has been 0 conviction in any of my reads until this one. so I don't know where you have this "tunnel" shit coming from. in fact last phase I gave a complicated null read on HtS. Fine show me your town games and I will take a look at them. so wait, you're meta reading me as mafia when you have no idea about my town play and I am not emulating my mafia play? WHAT? Only saw your Mafia games but never your town games and the database isn't up ti date yet. I mean, regardless of your alignment. If you don't have an understanding of someone's play as both alignments, why in the hell would you ever try to meta read them? Beyond that, it's your only stated reason for scum reading me and you just openly invalidated it. I only invalidated it through POE but that was main source you getting being Antitown (SK or Mafia) and also HTS told me pretty much that you started to tunnel her but you didn't seen as agressive you were towards Me or Dr.H in the 2 previous games you were Mafia so you might as well show me your knife. emphasis mine ritoky replies: Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 08:59 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 07:13 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 07:08 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 06:57 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 06:53 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 06:36 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 06:28 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 06:18 ritoky wrote:
[quote]
I mean, explain how I have "mafia traits" from my meta in depth plz. examples necessary. Ya when you are Mafia you tend to super tunnel on someone for Example me in Carol of the Bells and Dr.H in Imperial. This game you been tunneled on HTS and now Me and this is the type of trait I associate with you when you are Mafia. Although i remember you Mass Murderer Slip was hilarious in Carol I mean you're right I tunnel as both alignments. you obviously don't care very much about this read since you weren't willing to actually go find examples like asked. your read is not only bad, but made up. I am not tryharding enough to be scum this game, and there has been 0 conviction in any of my reads until this one. so I don't know where you have this "tunnel" shit coming from. in fact last phase I gave a complicated null read on HtS. Fine show me your town games and I will take a look at them. so wait, you're meta reading me as mafia when you have no idea about my town play and I am not emulating my mafia play? WHAT? Only saw your Mafia games but never your town games and the database isn't up ti date yet. I mean, regardless of your alignment. If you don't have an understanding of someone's play as both alignments, why in the hell would you ever try to meta read them? Beyond that, it's your only stated reason for scum reading me and you just openly invalidated it. I only invalidated it through POE but that was main source you getting being Antitown (SK or Mafia) and also HTS told me pretty much that you started to tunnel her but you didn't seen as agressive you were towards Me or Dr.H in the 2 previous games you were Mafia so you might as well show me your knife. still kinda interested in this. she told you this where? cuz I just went through her filter and the only thing that even comes close to her saying what you said was directed at palmar. in fact she has rarely directly spoken to you at all in the thread. so where did she tell you? cuz if it was a private thing, it was either against the rules or in a qt. So, to be clear here, LS is talking about an interaction that never happened. he and HTS never had this discussion in-thread. I prove this: Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 09:30 Blazinghand wrote:Truncated quote: On February 20 2015 08:59 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 07:13 LightningStrike wrote:
I only invalidated it through POE but that was main source you getting being Antitown (SK or Mafia) and also HTS told me pretty much that you started to tunnel her but you didn't seen as agressive you were towards Me or Dr.H in the 2 previous games you were Mafia so you might as well show me your knife. still kinda interested in this. she told you this where? cuz I just went through her filter and the only thing that even comes close to her saying what you said was directed at palmar. in fact she has rarely directly spoken to you at all in the thread. so where did she tell you? cuz if it was a private thing, it was either against the rules or in a qt. So basically, there's only one time in the ENTIRE thread where HtS replies to lightningstrike about ritoky, and that's this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=23771576 talks about ritoky passivity as town vs scum, and his engagmeent with scumreads, with lightningstrike, sepcifically asking about meta and it does not line up because there's no mention DrH or the fact that ritoky is less aggressive. She's asking questions: On February 17 2015 06:11 Half the Sky wrote:On February 17 2015 06:06 LightningStrike wrote:
Also I think ritoky is town this game since he not fighting anyone at all like he did in his two games when I saw him play as Mafia. You're saying he's more passive as town than scum? He's talking a lot about his scumreads, but I don't know if he's not engaging his scumreads because he's unable to. Last I recall his four scumreads were Lian, Breshke, myself and Rayn and none of us are in the US. I think this is a fine reason to lynch both LS and HtS Now, people are calling this a "scumslip" case, and it's generally well-known that scumslips don't actually exist, and more townies scumslip than scum. However, this isn't the case of accidentally calling someone town or calling someone the gf when you shouldn't be sure of that, it's not some kind of minor slip thing. It's a reference to a conversation. It's not a weirdly worded phrase, it's a deliberate statement. LightningStrike says, "HTS told me X Y Z and ritoky tunnelling this game" when HTS said NO SUCH THING. There's a number of explanations for this, but the most likely is simply that HTS *did* tell him that and he forgot that the interaction didn't happen in-thread. He first replies with this: Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 10:18 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 10:16 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 08:59 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 07:13 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 07:08 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 06:57 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 06:53 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 06:36 ritoky wrote:
[quote]
I mean you're right I tunnel as both alignments. you obviously don't care very much about this read since you weren't willing to actually go find examples like asked.
your read is not only bad, but made up.
I am not tryharding enough to be scum this game, and there has been 0 conviction in any of my reads until this one. so I don't know where you have this "tunnel" shit coming from. in fact last phase I gave a complicated null read on HtS. Fine show me your town games and I will take a look at them. so wait, you're meta reading me as mafia when you have no idea about my town play and I am not emulating my mafia play? WHAT? Only saw your Mafia games but never your town games and the database isn't up ti date yet. I mean, regardless of your alignment. If you don't have an understanding of someone's play as both alignments, why in the hell would you ever try to meta read them? Beyond that, it's your only stated reason for scum reading me and you just openly invalidated it. I only invalidated it through POE but that was main source you getting being Antitown (SK or Mafia) and also HTS told me pretty much that you started to tunnel her but you didn't seen as agressive you were towards Me or Dr.H in the 2 previous games you were Mafia so you might as well show me your knife. still kinda interested in this. she told you this where? cuz I just went through her filter and the only thing that even comes close to her saying what you said was directed at palmar. in fact she has rarely directly spoken to you at all in the thread. so where did she tell you? cuz if it was a private thing, it was either against the rules or in a qt. It's in her filter but I will dig it up now since you asking for this. I;m back guys I forgot to say that I was going out to dinner with my Mom so catching up still. Found it and it was me talking to HTS and which HTS responded to me that's why it might not be in my filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/477800-vii-titanic-mini-mafia-i-have-a-cunning-plan?page=16#309 which is completely unrelated. then he rplies with this: Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 10:24 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 10:21 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 10:18 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 10:16 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 08:59 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 07:13 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 07:08 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 06:57 ritoky wrote:
[quote]
so wait, you're meta reading me as mafia when you have no idea about my town play and I am not emulating my mafia play?
WHAT? Only saw your Mafia games but never your town games and the database isn't up ti date yet. I mean, regardless of your alignment. If you don't have an understanding of someone's play as both alignments, why in the hell would you ever try to meta read them? Beyond that, it's your only stated reason for scum reading me and you just openly invalidated it. I only invalidated it through POE but that was main source you getting being Antitown (SK or Mafia) and also HTS told me pretty much that you started to tunnel her but you didn't seen as agressive you were towards Me or Dr.H in the 2 previous games you were Mafia so you might as well show me your knife. still kinda interested in this. she told you this where? cuz I just went through her filter and the only thing that even comes close to her saying what you said was directed at palmar. in fact she has rarely directly spoken to you at all in the thread. so where did she tell you? cuz if it was a private thing, it was either against the rules or in a qt. It's in her filter but I will dig it up now since you asking for this. I;m back guys I forgot to say that I was going out to dinner with my Mom so catching up still. Found it and it was me talking to HTS and which HTS responded to me that's why it might not be in my filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/477800-vii-titanic-mini-mafia-i-have-a-cunning-plan?page=16#309 what in the holy fuck? this post has 0 to do with anything and responds to FF? you don't even post on this page, the page before it or the page after it. Crap wrong post. Here it is: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/477800-vii-titanic-mini-mafia-i-have-a-cunning-plan?page=89#1762 which I had already debunked. LS's immediate reaction isn't "oh, this is what I'm talking about, you guys misinterperted me", his reaction is just to link us to shit that isn't relevant. Like, this is NOT a case of a wording issue, this is a case of LS thinking a conversation happened in this thread when it did NOT. my opponents will tell you this is a simple scumslip case, but it is not a scumslip case. LS doesn't react how someone would if his wording has been misinterpreted. He didn't say "oh, I wasn't claming HTS said that, she didn't say that; I meant that I thought that" or something like that. No, he MEANT what he wrote and we interpreted him fine.
Point One: Robik was scumreading LS. Robik's good, but he's not infallible; he was convinced I was scum, too.
Point the Second and Last: LS made up this conversation with HtS.
On February 20 2015 07:13 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 07:08 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 06:57 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 06:53 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 06:36 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 06:28 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 06:18 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 06:15 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 05:32 ritoky wrote:
[quote]
explain this in depth please. The non confirmed players are either Mafia or SK and I finding you as either the SK or Mafia by Process of Elimation from all my reads and the confirmed towns were claimed roles or mod confirmed (BH) and then I decided to go meta reading players and elimated but the 5 in the non confirmed pile so that means that you are either A. Mafia or B. Serial Killer. I mean, explain how I have "mafia traits" from my meta in depth plz. examples necessary. Ya when you are Mafia you tend to super tunnel on someone for Example me in Carol of the Bells and Dr.H in Imperial. This game you been tunneled on HTS and now Me and this is the type of trait I associate with you when you are Mafia. Although i remember you Mass Murderer Slip was hilarious in Carol I mean you're right I tunnel as both alignments. you obviously don't care very much about this read since you weren't willing to actually go find examples like asked. your read is not only bad, but made up. I am not tryharding enough to be scum this game, and there has been 0 conviction in any of my reads until this one. so I don't know where you have this "tunnel" shit coming from. in fact last phase I gave a complicated null read on HtS. Fine show me your town games and I will take a look at them. so wait, you're meta reading me as mafia when you have no idea about my town play and I am not emulating my mafia play? WHAT? Only saw your Mafia games but never your town games and the database isn't up ti date yet. I mean, regardless of your alignment. If you don't have an understanding of someone's play as both alignments, why in the hell would you ever try to meta read them? Beyond that, it's your only stated reason for scum reading me and you just openly invalidated it. I only invalidated it through POE but that was main source you getting being Antitown (SK or Mafia) and also HTS told me pretty much that you started to tunnel her(,) but you didn't seen as agressive you were towards Me or Dr.H in the 2 previous games you were Mafia so you might as well show me your knife.
Left in the emphasis that BH placed on the sentence. As I already said, it's just missing a comma, which I've placed in there. If you haven't noticed, LS is somewhat allergic to punctuation in his posts, demonstrated in...pretty much any other post he's posted this game. Also, look at the qualifier in red here. He is not literally saying that she said the words "ritoky is tunneling me".
But if that's not enough to make it fairly obvious that several players here took something tiny and blew it way out of proportion (either deliberately or just cause they're tunneled, who knows), then look at the following quotes:
On February 17 2015 06:02 Half the Sky wrote:
KSC, I usually find myself asking LS many questions just to see where he is. And in most of his games, he's not very coherent, even as town. Right now I have no reason to be suspicious of him.
Looked at VA's last filter - last two posts on BH/mod issues. Not sure if he's still OMGUS-ing BH, but if he doesn't believe anything was mod confirmed, I'm surprised he didn't have any input on Superbia's researching that possibility or even had any input on balance. We've had a flip but he isn't trying to determine anything from it yet...
There's ritoky still maintaining I was voting BH for no reason when I first voted him, so that remains problematic. Into the scum pile he goes.
This looks like HtS is frustrated with ritoky not accepting her explanation. Continuing to scumread someone for a reason that has already been answered could easily be construed as "tunneling", especially given the way LS uses the word, as ritoky has already pointed out (I believe).
On February 17 2015 06:11 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 06:06 LightningStrike wrote:
Also I think ritoky is town this game since he not fighting anyone at all like he did in his two games when I saw him play as Mafia. You're saying he's more passive as town than scum? He's talking a lot about his scumreads, but I don't know if he's not engaging his scumreads because he's unable to. Last I recall his four scumreads were Lian, Breshke, myself and Rayn and none of us are in the US.
In context, this is HtS challenging LS' assertion that ritoky is not being as aggressive, essentially alleging that the only reason he isn't (yes, I'm going to use the word again) "tunneled" as hard on his scumreads is because they're not in the thread at the same time.
On February 20 2015 06:28 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 06:18 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 06:15 LightningStrike wrote:On February 20 2015 05:32 ritoky wrote:On February 20 2015 00:32 LightningStrike wrote:
Non confirmed Town: ritoky, VayneAuthority, IAmRobik,, Alakaslam, prplhz.
Ritoky although he looked better than his last mafia games I seen him play (Carol which I played and Imperial I shadowed) but he seem to still have some of his mafia traits in him but not as much as that time and give there been time since these two games happened he could of worked on his Mafia play. explain this in depth please. The non confirmed players are either Mafia or SK and I finding you as either the SK or Mafia by Process of Elimation from all my reads and the confirmed towns were claimed roles or mod confirmed (BH) and then I decided to go meta reading players and elimated but the 5 in the non confirmed pile so that means that you are either A. Mafia or B. Serial Killer. I mean, explain how I have "mafia traits" from my meta in depth plz. examples necessary. Ya when you are Mafia you tend to super tunnel on someone for Example me in Carol of the Bells and Dr.H in Imperial. This game you been tunneled on HTS and now Me and this is the type of trait I associate with you when you are Mafia. Although i remember you Mass Murderer Slip was hilarious in Carol
Clearly, whether HtS used the word "tunnel" or not, that is how LS interpreted it.
It's not definitive, but I think there's sufficient evidence here to explain LS' choice of wording and that it isn't disconnected with the thread at all.
More to the point, why the hell you guys think a conversation like this took place in a scum QT is beyond me. It simply does not make sense, and makes a lot more sense that he is simply interpreting the interactions between HtS, ritoky and himself as tunneling.
This case is weak as shit. Moving on to ritoky's.
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