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Newbie Mini Mafia LXI - Page 79

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zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 24 2015 01:14 GMT
#1561
Hmmm, so two of us have to agree on which other one to lynch, as per the rules on end-game votes.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 24 2015 01:23 GMT
#1562
On February 24 2015 10:14 zlefin wrote:
Hmmm, so two of us have to agree on which other one to lynch, as per the rules on end-game votes.
Is that really what it is? I thought that the rule in question only applied if it was clear that it would be that way before the day began. Therefore, I think if we have a 1-1-1 split, whoever gets voted for first is the one who is lynched.

That said, we had better have two people on the same target.
jarjarbinks
Profile Joined December 2014
569 Posts
February 24 2015 01:24 GMT
#1563
Sorry guys, this read analysis is taking me forever. On page 6 of zlefin.

Honestly I think both NK wifom and lych WIFOM are worth more than people credit for. I don't think it's 50/50. Although some people generally have better reads than others. With no real vet exp on Shining, I would have to think that there's a better chance that he was killed for his reads than to draw confusion.

That super long case on me sure has me looking awful here lol
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 24 2015 01:26 GMT
#1564
So, my intention today is not to defend myself, my intention is to find out which of you is scum.

That said, if anyone has any questions for me whatsoever, I will do my best to answer. You two should be interested in determining my alignment, and if there is anything I can do to help you with that, please let me know.

I'm going to start by rereading the game and taking note of everything that you two did.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 24 2015 01:29 GMT
#1565
On February 24 2015 10:23 Trfel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2015 10:14 zlefin wrote:
Hmmm, so two of us have to agree on which other one to lynch, as per the rules on end-game votes.
Is that really what it is? I thought that the rule in question only applied if it was clear that it would be that way before the day began. Therefore, I think if we have a 1-1-1 split, whoever gets voted for first is the one who is lynched.

That said, we had better have two people on the same target.


well, that's not how I read it, but you can ask those in charge.
The logic for it would fully apply to a 1-1-1 split, making sure it's not a vote race, because vote races are bad for deciding the game.
It just occurs to me, it must be logically possible for a mafia game to tie, if there's a lylo mislynch, but the remaining two people are the scum and a vigilante with a bullet left, and they kill each other at night.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 24 2015 01:30 GMT
#1566
On February 24 2015 10:24 jarjarbinks wrote:
Sorry guys, this read analysis is taking me forever. On page 6 of zlefin.

Honestly I think both NK wifom and lych WIFOM are worth more than people credit for. I don't think it's 50/50. Although some people generally have better reads than others. With no real vet exp on Shining, I would have to think that there's a better chance that he was killed for his reads than to draw confusion.

That super long case on me sure has me looking awful here lol

no problem, take your time and get it right (while allowing enough time for people to look over your choice, if you wish)
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 24 2015 01:30 GMT
#1567
going to sleep now, c'yall later.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 24 2015 01:30 GMT
#1568
On February 24 2015 10:29 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2015 10:23 Trfel wrote:
On February 24 2015 10:14 zlefin wrote:
Hmmm, so two of us have to agree on which other one to lynch, as per the rules on end-game votes.
Is that really what it is? I thought that the rule in question only applied if it was clear that it would be that way before the day began. Therefore, I think if we have a 1-1-1 split, whoever gets voted for first is the one who is lynched.

That said, we had better have two people on the same target.


well, that's not how I read it, but you can ask those in charge.
The logic for it would fully apply to a 1-1-1 split, making sure it's not a vote race, because vote races are bad for deciding the game.
It just occurs to me, it must be logically possible for a mafia game to tie, if there's a lylo mislynch, but the remaining two people are the scum and a vigilante with a bullet left, and they kill each other at night.
I believe mafia wins as soon as they have equal numbers as town, so that would be a mafia victory.

But it would be nice to have clarification as to what happens if the voting ends with one vote on each player if possible?
jarjarbinks
Profile Joined December 2014
569 Posts
February 24 2015 01:47 GMT
#1569
While I do think that it is much more important to make your own reads here, I don't see how it would be a bad idea to defend yourself Trf. If you are town, defending a weak case against you could prove to your town partner that you are town.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 24 2015 01:47 GMT
#1570
Is there a case that I need to defend myself against?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 24 2015 01:48 GMT
#1571
Shoot, that looks really sarcastic. I'm sorry, it's an honest question.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
February 24 2015 01:48 GMT
#1572
On February 24 2015 10:30 Trfel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2015 10:29 zlefin wrote:
On February 24 2015 10:23 Trfel wrote:
On February 24 2015 10:14 zlefin wrote:
Hmmm, so two of us have to agree on which other one to lynch, as per the rules on end-game votes.
Is that really what it is? I thought that the rule in question only applied if it was clear that it would be that way before the day began. Therefore, I think if we have a 1-1-1 split, whoever gets voted for first is the one who is lynched.

That said, we had better have two people on the same target.


well, that's not how I read it, but you can ask those in charge.
The logic for it would fully apply to a 1-1-1 split, making sure it's not a vote race, because vote races are bad for deciding the game.
It just occurs to me, it must be logically possible for a mafia game to tie, if there's a lylo mislynch, but the remaining two people are the scum and a vigilante with a bullet left, and they kill each other at night.
I believe mafia wins as soon as they have equal numbers as town, so that would be a mafia victory.

But it would be nice to have clarification as to what happens if the voting ends with one vote on each player if possible?


1-1-1 would result in the first player to be voted getting lynched. The vote race occurs when the number of mafia equals the number of town, which would go to a night phase (for setups like vig/vet where it is possible for town to win).
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 24 2015 01:52 GMT
#1573
Okay, thanks.
jarjarbinks
Profile Joined December 2014
569 Posts
February 24 2015 01:58 GMT
#1574
On February 24 2015 10:47 Trfel wrote:
Is there a case that I need to defend myself against?


lol no

but say if mafia zlef makes a case on you that you decide not to defend against that could sway my view on you and your cases
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 24 2015 02:01 GMT
#1575
On February 23 2015 08:58 Palmar wrote:
also reevaluate everything in lylo. Don't scumhunt in lylo using what is being posted in lylo, just use whatever was posted in the previous days and go off of that.
I'm going to quote this again.

Note that by no means do I intend to stop scumhunting at LYLO, I will do my very best. But it is easy for people's behaviors to change at LYLO, and for scum to step up their game significantly. Thefefore, I trust Palmar in saying that it is more important to look at what happened before LYLO than to look at LYLO itself.
jarjarbinks
Profile Joined December 2014
569 Posts
February 24 2015 02:15 GMT
#1576
That makes sense lol
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 24 2015 03:00 GMT
#1577
Here's where we stood at End of Night.

Trfel was townreading The Shining, and The Shining was townreading Trfel.

The Shining was scumreading jarjarbinks, and Trfel was scumreading zlefin. Zlefin was also scumreading Trfel.

If we are dealing with mafia!jarjarbinks, killing The Shining makes sense to leave two confused townies scumreading each other.

If we are dealing with mafia!zlefin, killing The Shining doesn't make much sense except for hoping for WIFOM, which is a bit silly. Maybe The Shining was killed because The Shining was his townread, and therefore he could not justify voting him. This is a possibility for mafia!zlefin to kill The Shining to keep his vote options open, but that seems like a generally poor choice compared to leaving The Shining who is scumreading jarjarbinks behind.

Therefore, it seems to me that the night kill seems to suggest that jarjarbinks is scum. Still, I have a lot of trouble with night kill analysis. Jarjarbinks, can you please shed some light on this for me?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 24 2015 03:09 GMT
#1578
I'm going to case zlefin. Note that this does not represent a scumread, but we already have a case for The Shining. I'm looking for thoughts on this.
jarjarbinks
Profile Joined December 2014
569 Posts
February 24 2015 03:20 GMT
#1579
lol yes I look super bad here. Sadly I saw this coming, and I think most others did too although they might not admit it. Anybody that even glances at this would put me at primary suspect number one. Both Shining and Palmar who both of course flipped town and I am left to blame as the final mislynch.

I can scream WIFOM, or IVE BEEN FRAMED; but the simple analysis is that I look like scum because of this kill. If I were you I would have jumped on this.

Granted I don't really know which one of you framed me.

You "set your trap" by talking to Shining about WIFOM.
Zlefin is saying he knew but was going along with it so "mafiajjb" wouldn't catch it.

It's your call. I would think it would be a matter of how intelligent you think I am. Do you think a guy who uses vote analysis to find mafia would make himself look awful in vote analysis?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 24 2015 03:30 GMT
#1580
That's the thing. I set it as a trap, but I don't know what or how I can use the information I might have gained from the trap. I'll keep thinking about it.

But in the end, I can't see myself lynching jarjarbinks just because of the night kill. It's something to keep in mind, but I don't know how much weight it deserves.
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