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Newbie Mini Mafia LXI - Page 58

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zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 19 2015 20:17 GMT
#1141
All that together means it would be pretty risky for a Tere/Silver team to go on this line of play.
Not impossible, but really tricky and risky.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 19 2015 20:19 GMT
#1142
On February 20 2015 05:16 zlefin wrote:
I have been considering what a silverarte/tere team would do. I thought you didn't like association analysis? Why you up to association analysis now?
I ran across it by accident. You asked me early in day 2, I believe, and I stated this then. That was the same post where I said that I hate association analysis.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 19 2015 20:23 GMT
#1143
I'm sorry. I don't definitively know who the scum team is. Remember the part where I said I probably townread someone who is scum, I just don't know who?

I wish I could be right. If I was right and I knew it, then I wouldn't get lynched right here. My last five mafia games have taught me a lot of things, but how to be right is not one of them. The 25% I posted in my first post? That is actually the number.

Incorrect case on batsnacks
Incorrect case on Damdred
Correct case on KelsierSC
Incorrect case on IAmRobik

I'm sorry I can't always be right. I don't always have the answers. That doesn't mean I am mafia, that doesn't mean I haven't been trying my very best.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 19 2015 20:23 GMT
#1144
I find your response strange and suspicious Trfel, it's awfully defensive and worried, and sounds strangely resigned.
Why would you feel betrayed by town when there's only 2 people voting on you right now?
There's more votes on other people than on you; and the remaining 2 people aren't too likely to vote against you either Trfel, certainly shining has you as the towniest person on his list, and I have no list from Jarjar, but I don't think he's likely to pile on you.

It feels like now, and a little while ago, trfel was pushing too strong defensively when not that many people were actually against him. You normally only see that kind of reaction when it's near or past half the town voting that way, not just 2 people, who could be the scum themselves.

That said, I still think Silver is by far the safest lynch choice for today, as this is only an oddity, but could just be people being/feeling weird, or miscounting how many people are on which wagon.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 19 2015 20:24 GMT
#1145
I started my post before you typed that last one of yours, it still seems odd that you feel so certain you'll be lynched when there's only 2 votes against you, and the remaining votes are more likely to go on silver than on you.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 19 2015 20:25 GMT
#1146
oh, my bad
I just noticed, I misread who had and hadn't voted yet.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 19 2015 20:26 GMT
#1147
So the remainder has Silverarte and JJB haven't voted yet, as opposed to JJB and shining.

Huh, seeing as Silver has you as his towniest listed choice, and tere as his scummiest, I'm not sure my miscount actually changes much about the actual threat you're in Trfel.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 19 2015 20:28 GMT
#1148
On February 20 2015 05:23 zlefin wrote:
I find your response strange and suspicious Trfel, it's awfully defensive and worried, and sounds strangely resigned.
Why would you feel betrayed by town when there's only 2 people voting on you right now?
There's more votes on other people than on you; and the remaining 2 people aren't too likely to vote against you either Trfel, certainly shining has you as the towniest person on his list, and I have no list from Jarjar, but I don't think he's likely to pile on you.

It feels like now, and a little while ago, trfel was pushing too strong defensively when not that many people were actually against him. You normally only see that kind of reaction when it's near or past half the town voting that way, not just 2 people, who could be the scum themselves.

That said, I still think Silver is by far the safest lynch choice for today, as this is only an oddity, but could just be people being/feeling weird, or miscounting how many people are on which wagon.
I am resigned. It's over, I'm getting lynched. There are seven people alive, you need four people to guarantee a lynch, so two is in fact halfway there.

Nothing is overly defensive when a player as clearly skilled as Tere says that she is scumreading you with 95% confidence and a case is coming. That clearly indicates a hard push, which Tere later confirmed is coming. If I am getting hard pushed, you bet I'm going to defend myself with everything I have, even if it doesn't have popular support yet.

I've been pouring my life into this game. There's nothing else I can give.

ElyAs is probably town. So if both scum vote for me, that means every single other townie has to be here and vote for the same target.

If town doesn't see why I am town, the game is hopeless even if I somehow manage to avoid being lynched today.

Maybe I could keep arguing and save myself. But I'm not even sure if I care to, if this is how town will treat me. Zlefin, if you are willing to listen and make your own decisions, I'm more than willing to talk to you about this. I did not receive that indication from ElyAs.

Tere, you didn't even need to make a case.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 19 2015 20:31 GMT
#1149
Look. If Tere never actually posts this case, she is obvious scum. Maybe it's possible that she is town and she lynches me. But this is never possible if she doesn't make a case.

You need to look at her case. After I flip, you can get rid of these stupid notions of unflipped associative reads and that my play obviously reveals that I am the godfather. Look at the content of her case, ignore the amount, look and see if she is thinking critically. I'm guessing you won't find it.

Don't let her get away with lynching me and not even making a case, not even putting herself on the line for it.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 19 2015 20:32 GMT
#1150
Again, in case it was missed in all that.

If any townie is willing to talk to me, and listen to me, and reason with me, and keep an open mind, I am willing to do this as well. But you're going to need to say this. I'm not going to defend myself if no one is willing to listen.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 19 2015 20:33 GMT
#1151
At the moment, I don't even know what the arguments are against me. I can't be expected to defend myself against nonexistent arguments. If my current defenses don't make sense to you, tell me why, so I can respond.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 19 2015 20:39 GMT
#1152
On February 20 2015 05:32 Trfel wrote:
Again, in case it was missed in all that.

If any townie is willing to talk to me, and listen to me, and reason with me, and keep an open mind, I am willing to do this as well. But you're going to need to say this. I'm not going to defend myself if no one is willing to listen.
See, this is why I am not defending myself. No one cares to listen. No one cares to say why I am being scumread.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 19 2015 20:40 GMT
#1153
If you're going to play a game of mafia and not care at all, it would have been nice to let me know first.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 19 2015 20:44 GMT
#1154
Tere's post had better be the longest wall of text in the history of wall of texts. Why? It's taken her over two hours to put this together so far.

What's more, she already scumread me. With 95% or higher confidence. This indicates that she has taken the time to do a full and careful analysis already, so she knows what she is looking for. That should make actually typing up the case much quicker.

I almost think that her delay is just to watch me die as I don't even have a case to defend myself against. I can defend myself against arguments. I can't defend myself when I am being lynched with no arguments. She could just be delaying because she knows it's better if I don't get time to pick her arguments apart.

Her case had BETTER be up to standards. Take a look at it after I flip. Look back at my initial case on Tere, it still holds true. Look at my posting for the past few hours, while most of it is ranting, I have pointed out a ton of reasons why Tere's play is extremely suspicious as of late.

I need to head out for a bit, I'll be back soon.
The Shining
Profile Joined December 2014
United States2406 Posts
February 19 2015 20:50 GMT
#1155
Trfel, the defensiveness while claiming to not defend yourself is strong. I wasn't scum reading you. I'm still not. Ely has an unCC blue claim but I don't really like it. Hindsight is 20/20 but RSo would've been a much better save N1. And claimed with absolutely no pressure, no risk of being lynched yet. It doesn't sit well with me. We had a Doc claim in the last Newbie game. Celestial was scum.

I need to get on my tablet, on phone right now.
Always and Never are two words you should always remember never to say.
The Shining
Profile Joined December 2014
United States2406 Posts
February 19 2015 20:55 GMT
#1156
Zlefin, you seem to be showing suspicion of Trfel. Had him listed null before. He has a very extensive filter, a lot to analyze. There have been reads, pushes, willingness to engage, quick retractions when wrong and reading the thread. This is why I town read him.

With a player with a filter this big, with valid scumhunting, are you still null on him? If so, how? If not, where are you leaning on him?
Always and Never are two words you should always remember never to say.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 19 2015 20:56 GMT
#1157
I'm going to start working on my final post with my directions for how to proceed at LYLO. If you are town and you lynch me, that means your reads are so terrible that you had better do me the decency of following it.

And after I get lynched, I will make my non game-changing goodbye post. You bet it will be harsh. Those of you who are town and lynch me deserve it.

The Shining, thanks for being willing to think openly. If there is anything whatsoever that I can do for you, any question you want answered, any case you want me to build (except Tere, since I can't do that until she posts), I can do that.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 19 2015 20:59 GMT
#1158
The Shining, if you think I am town, please switch your vote to Silverarte? I don't think a Tere lynch is possible today, since most people aren't even here, and Tere isn't posting her case so I can't tear it apart.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
February 19 2015 21:01 GMT
#1159
And I take it back, I will not make a post-lynch goodbye post. As much as I want to yell at some of you for the rest of time, it's not my place. It's just a game. I apologize, I'll try to keep my behavior in line, but I hope you can understand why that is difficult for me to do at this time.
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
February 19 2015 21:04 GMT
#1160
Day 2: Counting Down

Trfel (2): Tere, ElyAs
Silverarte (2): Trfel, zlefin
Tere (1): Trfel, The Shining
ElyAs (0): zlefin

Not Voting (3): Silverarte, jarjarbinks

Currently, Trfel is set to be expelled from South Park Elementary. Day 2 ends in at 00:00 GMT (+00:00).

Reminder to make sure to unvote before voting, if you have already voted someone.
Remember, voting is Mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
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