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No, you should definitely start talking to us. If you are town, we need to understand your thought processes more, because they are a little unusual and I think you are approaching the game in a different way to most. It's not necessarily a bad thing, just need to understand I think.
So talk to us! 
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We also need Hier to get their butt in here and post.
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rso -> I need to go back over the thread to answer that more thoroughly, which I plan to do at some point, not necessarily now though.
It's an impression I've formed that he's at the nexus of several conversations, and that if I knew he was town, I could point to 2-3 people as the likeliest scum in response, and if I knew he was scum, I could point to 1-2 people as the likeliest other scum.
To put another way, I the feeling I get is that if I knew his alignment, it would really strongly narrow down my my suspects, whereas for some other people, a lynch wouldn't help me much.
But again, I really need to go back over everything to make sure my feel has some validity.
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On February 17 2015 03:01 Tere wrote:I can try! First off, I think this is his first game: Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 20:25 zlefin wrote:
I should try this one of these days, so
/in
Then says he's a slight town read on trfel and slight scum on jarjar, null on the rest. Wants to consider policy lynching for inactivity after 12 hours, which is a little keen IMO. Says reads are mostly tonal and impressions, which I don't see as alignment indicative (given I use tone a lot myself). Townreads Hier (plan too much effort for scum) and rso (likes objections and analysis) after some clarification on WIFOM, then tries to connect you, demonstrating said WIFOM. Still wants to policy lynch even though he thinks it's unlikely it's a scum tell - which the Shining picked up on and I do think is a bit off too, it's funny logic for town. Dislikes the banter between Trfel and jarjar saying jarjar's joking makes him look scummy (I think the opposite). Doesn't like one of Hier's thesaurus posts (nor did I). Posts up his tally system, saying jarjar, hier, silver and trfel are lynchpool, prefers trfel for most information. Asks if he should OMGUS Shining for his push on him. There's a funny question about town probability of Trfel's townread on Hier. Confirms it is his first game and settles for Hier as most probable lynch. Ugh. There's aspects of that logic that I don't like for town (wanting to policy lynch while recognising unlikely to be scum, disliking the banter, wanting to lynch Trfel for most info despite not finding him the most scummy for example), but I can also see that as coming from newbie town, particularly newbie town who seems to be trying to feel their way on their own without relying too much on their coaching support. Bits look scummy but there might be a genuine reason for that in his new player status. I appreciate that's not much help.
As for the policy lynch issue, while it's only a minor one, town depends on information, and if someone is providing little/no information, that's a problem, and a minor scum indication. I generally check up on things on waking up and going to bed, and usually several times over the day in between, so I tend to treat others as if they could do similarly (even if the check is only cursory).
Unlikely to be scum doesn't mean can't be scum; like I say, anyone between 51%-77% to be town is still more likely to be scum than an RNG guess.
I asked for input on how to handle the policy lynch issue because I wasn't sure, as a lot of that depends on skill level of the people involved, and the local meta on handling such things. Especially if people play at a very basic level such things would be more indicative; what I've found in this game is that people mostly seem moderately experienced, either with mafia games, or with the genre generally, so that they aren't making egregious rookie mistakes.
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On February 16 2015 21:17 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 01:02 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 15 2015 22:58 zlefin wrote:
I can't explain my reads well, they're only quite mild reads at this point.
For Trfel, it's partly a tonal read, and partly that he's encouraging discussion and trying to get things going. So he's either town, or a well-played (and hence dangerous) scum.
For jarjar, it's just an impression, I can't really explain why. Could you use a quote or something to explain Trf's? no, I cannot. It wasn't a read from a single post, or two posts, unlike a fair portion of my mild reads; it was a gestalt impression of all his posts up until the time I'd made that post. Was this the question you wanted answered? Please be sure to confirm yes/no.
You answered it. Thanks lol I just wanted to make sure that you were not basing your reads specifically off a post, but more tonal.
You have new reads and it appears you are more confident in those so I won't dwell on those past ones too much.
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Jarjar!
Talk to us Jarjar, where is your head at now
(Hi, BTW)
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On February 17 2015 03:21 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 03:01 Tere wrote:I can try! First off, I think this is his first game: On February 01 2015 20:25 zlefin wrote:
I should try this one of these days, so
/in
Then says he's a slight town read on trfel and slight scum on jarjar, null on the rest. Wants to consider policy lynching for inactivity after 12 hours, which is a little keen IMO. Says reads are mostly tonal and impressions, which I don't see as alignment indicative (given I use tone a lot myself). Townreads Hier (plan too much effort for scum) and rso (likes objections and analysis) after some clarification on WIFOM, then tries to connect you, demonstrating said WIFOM. Still wants to policy lynch even though he thinks it's unlikely it's a scum tell - which the Shining picked up on and I do think is a bit off too, it's funny logic for town. Dislikes the banter between Trfel and jarjar saying jarjar's joking makes him look scummy (I think the opposite). Doesn't like one of Hier's thesaurus posts (nor did I). Posts up his tally system, saying jarjar, hier, silver and trfel are lynchpool, prefers trfel for most information. Asks if he should OMGUS Shining for his push on him. There's a funny question about town probability of Trfel's townread on Hier. Confirms it is his first game and settles for Hier as most probable lynch. Ugh. There's aspects of that logic that I don't like for town (wanting to policy lynch while recognising unlikely to be scum, disliking the banter, wanting to lynch Trfel for most info despite not finding him the most scummy for example), but I can also see that as coming from newbie town, particularly newbie town who seems to be trying to feel their way on their own without relying too much on their coaching support. Bits look scummy but there might be a genuine reason for that in his new player status. I appreciate that's not much help. As for the policy lynch issue, while it's only a minor one, town depends on information, and if someone is providing little/no information, that's a problem, and a minor scum indication. I generally check up on things on waking up and going to bed, and usually several times over the day in between, so I tend to treat others as if they could do similarly (even if the check is only cursory). Unlikely to be scum doesn't mean can't be scum; like I say, anyone between 51%-77% to be town is still more likely to be scum than an RNG guess. I asked for input on how to handle the policy lynch issue because I wasn't sure, as a lot of that depends on skill level of the people involved, and the local meta on handling such things. Especially if people play at a very basic level such things would be more indicative; what I've found in this game is that people mostly seem moderately experienced, either with mafia games, or with the genre generally, so that they aren't making egregious rookie mistakes.
Regarding policy lynching...it's pretty situational lol. Like, if it's all a player wants to do that tends to look scummy to me, especially if they have scumreads and then default to what is obviously a null read (how could it be anything else?) instead. In general, though, I think it's better to get rid of nullish players early rather than wait, and people shouldn't be so allergic to the idea unless they have a strong scumread to push.
Definitely curious about this Truffle nexus idea, so once you get your thoughts straightened out, I'll be looking forward to hearing it ^^
Probably still won't lynch him for that reason, lol, just to put it out there, but I think you explaining your thoughts will help me read you better 
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On February 15 2015 15:26 jarjarbinks wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2015 15:20 rsoultin wrote:On February 15 2015 15:17 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 15 2015 15:14 rsoultin wrote:On February 15 2015 15:10 jarjarbinks wrote:
Rsoultin: Do you think you could actually RNG lynch someone? I don't think you could lol Speak of the devil ^^ Did you have a hot date tonight I don't know about, bro? Probably not -amused- I'm sure there's a how-to online somewhere, though >> I could just google it xP Nope, totally 5th wheeled a weird after church double date thing tho. I should prob get one of those date things. LOL just make sure you don't actually read all of the rules first Or my role PM? xP Dude, if only you'd posted that in-thread; it could totally make the wtf awards ^^ So, opinions on any of the players/goings-on thus far? Trf's opening: slightly less crazy than last game I played with him in. No random vote the guy who might be inactive play. Wants to promote discussion. I could go either way cuz he "tried" to do that as scum. Shining- not much reaction there. What i'd typically expect I guess? You- I expect you to do what you do every game. You did it...lolEveryone else: I'm guessing they are gone for valentine's. I'd get worried if people aren't chiming in when I wake up tomorrow.
While you are here, would you explain why you posted the bolded bit to rsoulin?
I am lacking in the meta here.
Thanks
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[QUOTE]On February 17 2015 00:58 rsoultin wrote:
[QUOTE]On February 17 2015 00:42 Trfel wrote:
Okay, time for a revised post on The Shining, hopefully I'm a little more awake now.
- The Shining seems very suspicious of me early on in the game, the reason being that I was scum in the last game that he played. This reason doesn't make any sense to me, but it doesn't seem significantly more likely to come from one alignment than the other. That said, I would like to have it explained.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2015 07:32 The Shining wrote:
Trfel I'm a little biased against because I scummed with him last game and although I do agree with Ely saying him hiding it would have been way more suspicious, controversial start for Trfel seems to not be alignment indicative. Def wouldn't town him for it. And he tried to push discussion last game, too. Null, must see more. Note that I am not saying that it is suspicious that The Shining isn't townreading me, but that the reasoning is strange.
- The Shining's townread on rsoultin is very poor. He has played with rsoultin twice before, and ought to know that rsoultin asking questions is something that will happen regardless of rsoultin's alignment.
- The Shining's push on zlefin is rather poor, and I expected better.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2015 07:32 The Shining wrote:
Zlefin has a couple of posts that lead nowhere and weak and unexplained reads. Mentions WIFOM, game voting rules, some parroting. Says Hier and RSo could both be town or both be scum but wont commit to his reads. Seems to be all for policy lynching inactives when there were only 2. How likely is it both scum members are inactive? Likely my leading candidate for a shot at D1 scum lynch. This is the original case. And the points in it are incorrect. Mentioning WIFOM and game voting rules is definitely not alignment indicative. Zlefin's reads on Hier and rsoultin had a reasonable amount of commitment for an unsure townie at an early stage in the game. I also don't see zlefin only going after inactives. Several of zlefin's posts suggest that he is actively scumhunting. On February 16 2015 09:07 The Shining wrote:
Um, is no one going to even remotely address my slight push on Zlefin? Odd. Why did The Shining clarify that the push is slight? If it's a pressure push, then saying that it is a slight push is horrid. And if it's a serious push, then it isn't slight. The comment just seems like The Shining wants to distance himself from his push a little, while still seeming possessive ("Hey, look at me, I'm doing something, but if it goes badly, don't blame me for it!"). On February 16 2015 12:20 The Shining wrote:
Also, so it's not a surprise.
Vote Zlefin
That's in voting thread. I'll be here at EOD, I'm off of work tomorrow and I don't like the lack of response. Could be inactivity, IRL stuff or just lurking but...my vote is where it is at. Zlefin didn't post in between these three quoted posts. I'm not sure what caused this push to change from a slight push to a vote.
- The Shining seems overly defensive and shows a very strange, ambiguous stance on me (Trfel).
+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2015 12:11 The Shining wrote:
JJB if you're most worried at first glance about Zf and myself, ask yourself this:
Would I bus my partner D1 while no one but me is pressuring him? He's my top scumread with what's been put into the thread so far. And it might be WIFOM to think I'd light pressure him so that if he does ever flip scum, it'd buy me town cred. But if that was the case, I wouldn't have later commented on the fact that no one else commented on my Zfelin case. I forced it. Scum Shining would just leave it be and if he does flip, I'd be able to go "oh look I called that D1."
So I'm now waiting on Hiers defense, JJbs top scumread and Ely to swing by with a little more than that. I'm assuming you (ElyAs) dozing off now means you'll revisit the RSo Hier exchange with fresh eyes in the morning? BEFORE EoD?
For what its worth, Ely's last post was just a summary of the Hier Rso exchange, a parrot of my questioning Hiers lack of other leads, and an excuse for not giving us more.
Trfel, I really truly hate walls of text. I saw you do it as scum and so did I. I'd scum you for that entire post if I didn't actually read it lmao. And I made that point in the hopes that it would inspire you to do so, Trfel, so I'm glad you obliged. You can see how I was setting it up to see if you were really going to catch up or afk it. And eh, in a game where everyone is on opposite ends of the activity spectrum(very actively posting or lurking along, no mid ground), I feel its my best shot. Policy lynch talk and weak reads and no other talk of lynches shows a disinterest...I know I'd be a bit disinterested if I rolled scum in a newbie game.
Oh wait, I did. And I was. Last game. Lol. Ignoring the fact that the comment the first portion of this post is responding to was already retracted, this is still extremely defensive for an off-hand comment. While town obviously has incentive to be townread and survive, this seems overly so. The last paragraph makes no sense to me. I can't tell if I (Trfel) am being townread, scumread, or what, and I can't tell the reasoning for it. Why can't The Shining form a clear opinion of whether I am town or scum? (or null, for that matter?)
In addition to this, some of The Shining's other posts seem to show genuine scumhunting and thinking. So I am not entirely sure on The Shining. I would definitely like to hear people's thoughts, including The Shining's.[/QUOTE]
- You making a controversial opening post to "generate discussion" is something you did in your scum game xP I'm not seeing a problem with him being wary of that.
- My scum game was Horn. Unless he read it, he doesn't know my scum game here, and he quite easily catches me on our other forum lol xP So I can see him being confident of a read on me, however unjustified it may be. (Also, would tend to disagree that I play scum well, but that's not really a discussion for this thread.)
- I, too, disagree with his Zlefin read. Not enough to call him scum for it, but it's weak.
- That last point is probably the only one I would consider scum-like...getting defensive so quickly before anyone is really scumreading you. Probably best to recheck the context.[/QUOTE]
Shining does get defensive easily sometimes. He's only played a few games, but he typically does lash out at people that scum him. I saw the defensiveness as purely that.
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On February 17 2015 03:33 Tere wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2015 15:26 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 15 2015 15:20 rsoultin wrote:On February 15 2015 15:17 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 15 2015 15:14 rsoultin wrote:On February 15 2015 15:10 jarjarbinks wrote:
Rsoultin: Do you think you could actually RNG lynch someone? I don't think you could lol Speak of the devil ^^ Did you have a hot date tonight I don't know about, bro? Probably not -amused- I'm sure there's a how-to online somewhere, though >> I could just google it xP Nope, totally 5th wheeled a weird after church double date thing tho. I should prob get one of those date things. LOL just make sure you don't actually read all of the rules first Or my role PM? xP Dude, if only you'd posted that in-thread; it could totally make the wtf awards ^^ So, opinions on any of the players/goings-on thus far? Trf's opening: slightly less crazy than last game I played with him in. No random vote the guy who might be inactive play. Wants to promote discussion. I could go either way cuz he "tried" to do that as scum. Shining- not much reaction there. What i'd typically expect I guess? You- I expect you to do what you do every game. You did it...lolEveryone else: I'm guessing they are gone for valentine's. I'd get worried if people aren't chiming in when I wake up tomorrow. While you are here, would you explain why you posted the bolded bit to rsoulin? I am lacking in the meta here. Thanks
Sure. Rsoultin's basic strategy every game is to pry at little things in the beginning which accomplishes two things.
1: She appears town to everyone (almost always is accepted as town regardless of alignment)
2: Starts discussion.
3: She is probably the best player in this game I've seen do this, so it appeals to her strengths.
The discussion part helps town, plus she might get someone to slip. I generally don't read her one way or another because of it.
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lol
I came up with a third on the fly
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Elyas, I see your posting stopped. It appeared like you voted Hier to pressure him, but might have some stronger reads.
Care to share those when you get the chance?
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On February 17 2015 03:43 jarjarbinks wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 03:33 Tere wrote:On February 15 2015 15:26 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 15 2015 15:20 rsoultin wrote:On February 15 2015 15:17 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 15 2015 15:14 rsoultin wrote:On February 15 2015 15:10 jarjarbinks wrote:
Rsoultin: Do you think you could actually RNG lynch someone? I don't think you could lol Speak of the devil ^^ Did you have a hot date tonight I don't know about, bro? Probably not -amused- I'm sure there's a how-to online somewhere, though >> I could just google it xP Nope, totally 5th wheeled a weird after church double date thing tho. I should prob get one of those date things. LOL just make sure you don't actually read all of the rules first Or my role PM? xP Dude, if only you'd posted that in-thread; it could totally make the wtf awards ^^ So, opinions on any of the players/goings-on thus far? Trf's opening: slightly less crazy than last game I played with him in. No random vote the guy who might be inactive play. Wants to promote discussion. I could go either way cuz he "tried" to do that as scum. Shining- not much reaction there. What i'd typically expect I guess? You- I expect you to do what you do every game. You did it...lolEveryone else: I'm guessing they are gone for valentine's. I'd get worried if people aren't chiming in when I wake up tomorrow. While you are here, would you explain why you posted the bolded bit to rsoulin? I am lacking in the meta here. Thanks Sure. Rsoultin's basic strategy every game is to pry at little things in the beginning which accomplishes two things. 1: She appears town to everyone (almost always is accepted as town regardless of alignment) 2: Starts discussion. 3: She is probably the best player in this game I've seen do this, so it appeals to her strengths. The discussion part helps town, plus she might get someone to slip. I generally don't read her one way or another because of it.
This is pretty fair, actually. Even if you haven't played with me as both alignments, you brat xP (He's actually quite paranoid of me ^^ It's cute. If ever he's not sure who is scum, he'll default to me )
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On February 17 2015 00:31 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 00:26 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 20:43 zlefin wrote:On February 16 2015 09:53 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 16 2015 09:31 Trfel wrote:On February 16 2015 09:29 jarjarbinks wrote:
Rsoultin: Do you actually believe Hier is scum or do you just disapprove of his idea? Town can be wrong right?
Maybe next game you can be mother hen xD lol Town can never be wrong. Your statement is wrong, so you are scum. lolz dang it you caught me! lol While I recognize it was done in jest, I still dislike this statement, it feels scummy to say such a thing, even as a joke. I disagree with this, zle, based solely on the fact that if you read Truffle's post to JJB it was a joke in response to a joke. Unless you believe that Truffle actually meant his "town can never be wrong so you're scum" comment I did read the earlier post, and recognize it's likely to be a joke in response to a joke, I still don't like it though. And it's not like I have piles of reads to work with, so I'll take what I can get.
So is this like your strongest read of the game? Deserving of a -2 score?
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On February 17 2015 03:54 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 03:43 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 17 2015 03:33 Tere wrote:On February 15 2015 15:26 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 15 2015 15:20 rsoultin wrote:On February 15 2015 15:17 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 15 2015 15:14 rsoultin wrote:On February 15 2015 15:10 jarjarbinks wrote:
Rsoultin: Do you think you could actually RNG lynch someone? I don't think you could lol Speak of the devil ^^ Did you have a hot date tonight I don't know about, bro? Probably not -amused- I'm sure there's a how-to online somewhere, though >> I could just google it xP Nope, totally 5th wheeled a weird after church double date thing tho. I should prob get one of those date things. LOL just make sure you don't actually read all of the rules first Or my role PM? xP Dude, if only you'd posted that in-thread; it could totally make the wtf awards ^^ So, opinions on any of the players/goings-on thus far? Trf's opening: slightly less crazy than last game I played with him in. No random vote the guy who might be inactive play. Wants to promote discussion. I could go either way cuz he "tried" to do that as scum. Shining- not much reaction there. What i'd typically expect I guess? You- I expect you to do what you do every game. You did it...lolEveryone else: I'm guessing they are gone for valentine's. I'd get worried if people aren't chiming in when I wake up tomorrow. While you are here, would you explain why you posted the bolded bit to rsoulin? I am lacking in the meta here. Thanks Sure. Rsoultin's basic strategy every game is to pry at little things in the beginning which accomplishes two things. 1: She appears town to everyone (almost always is accepted as town regardless of alignment) 2: Starts discussion. 3: She is probably the best player in this game I've seen do this, so it appeals to her strengths. The discussion part helps town, plus she might get someone to slip. I generally don't read her one way or another because of it. This is pretty fair, actually. Even if you haven't played with me as both alignments, you brat xP (He's actually quite paranoid of me ^^ It's cute. If ever he's not sure who is scum, he'll default to me )
HEY I've held my tongue this game lol
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On February 17 2015 03:56 jarjarbinks wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 03:54 rsoultin wrote:On February 17 2015 03:43 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 17 2015 03:33 Tere wrote:On February 15 2015 15:26 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 15 2015 15:20 rsoultin wrote:On February 15 2015 15:17 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 15 2015 15:14 rsoultin wrote:On February 15 2015 15:10 jarjarbinks wrote:
Rsoultin: Do you think you could actually RNG lynch someone? I don't think you could lol Speak of the devil ^^ Did you have a hot date tonight I don't know about, bro? Probably not -amused- I'm sure there's a how-to online somewhere, though >> I could just google it xP Nope, totally 5th wheeled a weird after church double date thing tho. I should prob get one of those date things. LOL just make sure you don't actually read all of the rules first Or my role PM? xP Dude, if only you'd posted that in-thread; it could totally make the wtf awards ^^ So, opinions on any of the players/goings-on thus far? Trf's opening: slightly less crazy than last game I played with him in. No random vote the guy who might be inactive play. Wants to promote discussion. I could go either way cuz he "tried" to do that as scum. Shining- not much reaction there. What i'd typically expect I guess? You- I expect you to do what you do every game. You did it...lolEveryone else: I'm guessing they are gone for valentine's. I'd get worried if people aren't chiming in when I wake up tomorrow. While you are here, would you explain why you posted the bolded bit to rsoulin? I am lacking in the meta here. Thanks Sure. Rsoultin's basic strategy every game is to pry at little things in the beginning which accomplishes two things. 1: She appears town to everyone (almost always is accepted as town regardless of alignment) 2: Starts discussion. 3: She is probably the best player in this game I've seen do this, so it appeals to her strengths. The discussion part helps town, plus she might get someone to slip. I generally don't read her one way or another because of it. This is pretty fair, actually. Even if you haven't played with me as both alignments, you brat xP (He's actually quite paranoid of me ^^ It's cute. If ever he's not sure who is scum, he'll default to me ) HEY I've held my tongue this game lol
After being a deciding factor (or at least one of them) in my mislynch last game we played cause you're too damn paranoid, you owe me that xP (Actually it was cause town was being dumb, myself included, but shh)
Nah, I am capable of picking and prodding a both alignments; you're not wrong there. I notice the difference but I'm not sure it's as obvious to others. So I can't really complain lol.
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Day 1: Current Vote Count
Hier (5): rsoultin, Silverarte, ElyAs, Tere, Trfel
rsoultin (1) Hier
zlefin (1) The Shining
Not Voting (2): jarjarbinks, zlefin
Currently, Hier is set to be expelled from South Park Elementary. Day 1 ends in at 00:00 GMT (+00:00).
Reminder to make sure to unvote before voting, if you have already voted someone.
Remember, voting is Mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
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On February 17 2015 03:29 Tere wrote:Jarjar! Talk to us Jarjar, where is your head at now (Hi, BTW)
Bro, can you answer this? You're one of the few who hasn't voted or made it clear where you want to vote yet. Some reads would be nice.
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I'm adding to the counterwagon for zlefin. There definitely needs to be one, and I see zlefin as pretty scummy so far.
1. Doesn't really explain scumreads, besides my joke.
2. Is kind of scumhunting, but not really.
3. Most reads are pure tonal. Which is fine, but I can't back that.
zlefin if you answer my above question and I like it, I am willing to change my vote.
Hier, please post you still have a chance of not dying today. People switch votes all the time in this game. Answering questions helps people understand your thinking and if your town that is good for you
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If you are pressuring Hier to talk, you might be giving him the wrong incentives. Right now it looks like a lost cause. If you truly believe he is bad, keep your vote by all means. If it is only for pressure, too many of you are doing it lol
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EPT
