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On January 26 2015 08:46 Toadesstern wrote:
I actually like his vote. Pretty sure mafia would try to be serious about it somehow à la
"don't let this slide. This guy is shady because X / Y / Z! Pressure him" or just ignore it and do whatever their strategy is, be it lurk / be serious somewhere else.
Instead he gets in the thread and votes me with a smiley and nothing else while typo'ing my name. I'd call him my sheriff if he didn't try to lynch me and if there wasn't this other typo with him saying he doesn't vote mafia.
I just asked him if it was a joke vote and he just responded it was a lynch vote.
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On January 26 2015 08:48 Onegu wrote:
Wait is it a lynch vote or a mayor vote?
He said lynch.
On January 26 2015 08:40 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2015 08:39 Toadesstern wrote:On January 26 2015 08:38 GlowingBear wrote:On January 26 2015 08:24 Toadesstern wrote:Game has started. Is there a mayor spot in this game? I don't want to end up pardoner again ... but there's no mayor spot in this game... so I plan on running for [pseudo-] mayor The 2 major aspects of my candidacy: - I am awesome d1
- I am unreadable according to pretty much every vet on TL except for syllo [and marv]
you do what I say, I am happy. A happy Toad means I get to do the stuff I need to do to solve this game and can't a) get annoyed about some idiot that needs some talking to because you simply do as I say b) pretend to be dealing with some idiot that needs some talking to because you simply do as I say sounds good, right? Who wants to be my sheriff. The position is currently up for grabs. You can't sign up for it but I will call out to whoever seems up for the job.  ##Vote: Toadsteem wait, is that a vote for mayor or a vote for lynch? You also typo'd my name For a lynch.I don't vote mafia because, well... Democracy.
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Can either of you or GB explain why Toad is mafia? Because quite frankly I don't, and I've not played with him before, so I have no memos on meta here.
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EBWOP - Can either of Lian or GB explain why Toad is mafia?
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On January 26 2015 08:56 GlowingBear wrote:
OMG wait I forgot it is instant!!!
##Unvote
![[image loading]](http://i2.wp.com/hotnerdgirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/picard-facepalm1.jpg)
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Alright, anyone who is in the thread (it is past bedtime for me), what do you think of the thread/who's posted so far?
So far everyone seems leaning town so far, although Lian plopping vote #2 makes me cringe...
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Alright, that's a fair argument, but looking at his subsequent posts...they don't look so bad. Some thought put into them.
Do you still think he might be mafia?
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EBWOP - Previous post directed at Lian.
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Why are either of you (GB/Lian) talking about policy votes not even 1h into a 72h day?
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On January 26 2015 09:22 liancourt wrote:
what do you think of eden's announcement to lurk to make town easier to lynch him proposal?
It came off as trolling/sarcasm, so I want to say null.
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On January 26 2015 09:23 GlowingBear wrote:
Isn't it odd that he didn't Unvote yet, and how do you think mafia would react to my vote on you?
Think I know the answer to that, but I'll let him answer...
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On January 26 2015 09:25 liancourt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2015 09:21 Half the Sky wrote:
Why are either of you (GB/Lian) talking about policy votes not even 1h into a 72h day? so you want to spend all of 72 hrs?
I am indicating it's a bit premature to be discussing that.
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On January 26 2015 09:27 liancourt wrote:
give me a reason to unvote. It's not like he has 3 votes on him so mafia can hammer
Seriously? Not sure what time it is where you are (somewhere in Asia?) but if you go to bed, and the US players for whatever reason hammer him...
If you don't have an honest scumread on him, don't keep your vote on him, simple as.
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From what I can tell you appear to do and you're waiting on an answer from him, so...
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EBWOP - Previous post directed at Lian.
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Alright....12:40am and I have work at 8am. I'm going to cut out of here, and will check back morning or mid-day (EU hours)....
Good night everyone!
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Up early before heading to work. Too little sleep but meh.
General sketch of where I stand as of when I went to bed, which was page 9, though I skimmed the rest:
Town:
Toad - posts are generally well thought out, and he's evaluating thoroughly without overexplaining from what I can tell.
Leaning Town
Liancourt - thoughts are more fleshed out (at least than they were in Void) and I can follow where he's going for now.
Null: Onegu/VE/Robik - came in mainly for intros, though Onegu checked a few things, I see Onegu has a list post above, but will need to see more from him before I can move him anywhere.
I noticed Robik voted me, but I see it was mainly a troll vote from what I could tell.
Null - Palmar, as far as I can tell, yet to post
TBD/under review - Eden - so far he looks good but I see at least one is scumreading him based on meta. The lurkiness comments appear to be trolling to me. At face value, he's town, but I may need to check his scum game from NYE Party and see if there are any parallels.
Scum - GlowingBear (massive case to follow)
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So upon examining the chunk of notes, I think GB is mafia here.
He might have that big shiny post he's using to take notes, but are those notes informative or misleading?
There is a difference between trying to win the game, and trying to win the game as town.
Upon review, I feel there are several areas where he's taking things out of context.
Looked at his read on Onegu. Several problems with it (both 1st and 2nd mindnotes):
On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote:2. Onegu + Show Spoiler + I don't like this post + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=6#102 because it just seems that he just posted to comment on something without having clear intention to discover alignments. Potentially scum.
This actually struck me as a reactionary post. This reaction is actually null as it could have come from either alignment. The other problem is that looking at Onegu's entire filter, his intention may not have been to analyse data, as he even said he was off to watch the pro bowl. If he didn't contribute much/return soon at that point enough a scumread would be in order. But now? Too early.
On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote:I also don't like this post of his + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=7#127 because he just says to me that the vote is horrible and that the opening is null. See, he is just commenting: he doesn't say why that post can come from both alignments, he doesn't try to understand my reasoning why reading Toad as scum and he doesn't have any conclusion on my attitude. He just... comments.
This is patently false. On page 7 of the thread, Onegu has two comments directly after this post (which GB clearly ignored) as follows:
On January 26 2015 08:48 Onegu wrote:
Wait is it a lynch vote or a mayor vote?
On January 26 2015 08:48 Onegu wrote:
I'm confused...
These quotes indicate that Onegu is at least trying to understand the reasoning, and he certainly cannot make a conclusion when he's trying to figure out which type of vote it was. That's completely unreasonable.
On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote:Again, Onegu just comments with a single "lol" + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=7#139. This is bad.
Null at best, reactionary, and could have come from either alignment. Saying this is bad? I mean, GB doesn't even say why "this is bad" in his notes.
Second let's approach GB's read on me. This may sound OMGUS-y however, I will take another PBPA on where the faults are and where again he's taking things out of context.
On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote:9. Half the Sky + Show Spoiler + I hate this post + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=5#98 because Toads entrance was really scummy and giving a townread because someone is having fun can never be a reason to townread someone. Just look at Artanis play at Imperial, completely relaxed, and any Slam's scumgame. Felt like possible mafia not knowing how to interpret an entrance and saying it looks townie because her view is already tainted by her perfect information.
The biggest issue here (and Liancourt has already called him out on it I see) is that I had already disclaimed my read as a weak read based on one post AND it was in direct response to a question from Toad. GB attempts to paint this as a general townread however, and even worse over, COMPARES THIS TO THE MORE BROAD GAMEPLAY OF ARTANIS AND ALAKASLAM, WHICH -- UH HELLO -- ARE GOING TO BE BASED OFF MORE THAN ONE POST. (Furthermore I have never played with Artanis in any game, but that's besides the point.)
Basically he's comparing apples to oranges here.
It's one thing for GB to say my read is inaccurate, and that wouldn't be cause to scumread him, but it's the apples to oranges comparison that makes this read particularly poor and reveals the likely intention behind it.
Now to the second part of GB's read on me, and why it is misleading.
On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote: INCONSISTENCY ALERT!!!! Say everyone but lian is leaning town here + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=7#140 but still haven't tried to figure out lian's alignment by pushing him yet. BUT thinks my entrance is horrible and puts suspicions on me here + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=7#125 Where did those suspicions go? Weird.
To figure out whether I'm pushing someone, that would take evaluating my filter and the posts in the thread surrounding this post. If a potential scumread (in my case, Lian) answers a question, then my concern would be considered resolved. On page 8, not only does Lian answer my initial question but I actually DO followup and GB has completely ignored this. He wouldn't have missed it comparing my original post and looking for pushes, which has me conclude that his read is intentionally misleading.
On January 26 2015 09:15 liancourt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2015 09:12 Half the Sky wrote:
Alright, that's a fair argument, but looking at his subsequent posts...they don't look so bad. Some thought put into them.
Do you still think he might be mafia?
I'll have to see what he says
The other problem with his second part again, is twofold:
1) If you suspect a scumread and that scumread is in the thread with you, the townie thing to do would be to interact with that person (in this case GB should have asked why I thought his first post was a townread) and resolve the issue before concluding a scumread. He doesn't do this with me, but...
2) The irony is that when I question GB's entrance, I DO interact with him and give him the chance to explain himself.
On January 26 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2015 08:40 GlowingBear wrote:
Neither did I
What do you think I'm voting him for? My interpretation of his post is just the opposite of yours, which is why I'm confused now that I know you are voting him for lynch.
On January 26 2015 08:54 Half the Sky wrote:
Can either of you or GB explain why Toad is mafia? Because quite frankly I don't, and I've not played with him before, so I have no memos on meta here.
From pages 6-8 we (Onegu and myself) question whether it's a joke or lynch followed by these questions. The irony is that GB removed the vote and that he was joking. That should have answered where those suspicions went.
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Finally if you look, you will see GB having FOUR scumreads. Note that there are only two people in this game that can be scum. The other issue is that this is an instant lynch game, and where there'd be some re-evaluation of these if votes pile on someone at any given point in this day phase.
This gives credence to the theory that GB is stretching some reads so that he can cover himself if he needs to hammer anyone on that list. If he's scum, it wouldn't matter to him who he could hammer, just that someone on that list IS hammered so it would be an attempt at read progression, regardless of how poor, controversial or out of context the read is.
I have noticed reads on Eden, Lian and Robik. The one on Lian is fair, Eden appears to be meta, so I cannot pass judgement on the Eden read until I look more closely at him. Robik appears to be trolling and I could go either way with a null or a scum read depending on how you interpret Robik's behaviour. (Disclaimer: I have never played with Robik, so I am disregarding meta.)
But overall, this looks like a scum GB looking to hedge his bets given the game's setup.
And as such, that's where I'll park my vote at this time.
##unvote
##vote GlowingBear
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Again, I'm sorry this is a massive post but the TLDR version of the above scumread on GB:
1 Massive note/"giant shiny posts" should be examined for inaccuracies or being misleading
2 The game setup needs to be considered given the list of scumreads (instant lynch)
3 GB has taken several points out of context on two reads which are cause for concern given #2. I try to examine how a true townie would have examined the information.
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And off to work I go...I'll be back to take a closer look at a few more things midday.
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EPT
