Imperial Mafia

On December 27 2014 18:47 Eden1892 wrote:
man that's a cool looking list of people

On December 31 2014 14:24 Eden1892 wrote:

why did you post this?

On December 31 2014 15:22 Eden1892 wrote:


what's up with the second post here though? seems like if you have opinions about which posts are suspicious you have opinions about which people are suspicious. non?

On December 31 2014 15:27 geript wrote:
I'm more concerned about how you find a post that is "stiff and awkwardly timed," two traits that are more often considered mafia tells, towny? Can you explain that more fully? It's also pretty weird that you reasonably correctly point out that his post is going nowhere while simultaneously responding to it.

On December 31 2014 15:35 Eden1892 wrote:

just checking, it seemed like a joke but i didn't want to supply that answer in case it weren't~


sure, i'm not sure what you meant by "shut down this line" in the previous part of the post btw so if you want a reply to that please clarify for my addled brain

as for why i read it townie, like i said, it seemed like an effort to get discussion somewhere besides early-game banter, which imo wasn't going anywhere. i followed up on the post because even if the object-level discussion ends up being pretty pointless, i can get some possibly useful meta-level reads from it - and hey, maybe it is going somewhere and i miss it, y'know?

On December 31 2014 15:29 Eden1892 wrote:
eh i don't really see it, doc. as mafia i'm not going to try to lie any more or less if townies start lying, i'm probably going to exploit townies lying by trying to push policy lynches on them. policy lynches on townies are free mislynches for mafia

and i mean yeah, "intense scrutiny and questioning" sure, but are you afraid people are actually NOT going to do this? this almost seems like an empty statement

On December 31 2014 16:12 geript wrote:

That's because Eden keeps on coming across as more and more scummy the more he posts. Plus it's kinda what I do.

On December 31 2014 16:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
You're clearly more concerned about flipping this (whatever this is) to make me look bad instead of the important thing which is your read on damdred. If you aren't 100% sure he's scum then there's nothing to even talk about, so I don't know what you're doing.

On December 31 2014 16:41 ritoky wrote:
also he immediately wants to discuss lynching lurkers, and anyone who has played with me before knows the statistic i cite so frequently: 86% of the time the first person to start suggesting lynching lurkers is mafia.

On December 31 2014 17:10 Eden1892 wrote:

Ooh, my turn.

Earlier, geript, you had some issues with my posting about Doc's policy discussion instead of about your reads, and had criticized my choice of focus on Doc's policy discussion.

Now that ritoky, sicklurker(?) and I have, through different avenues of discussion, concluded that Doc is suspicious, you chose to reenter the thread to... critique a statistic tied to a minor point against Doc.

Of the recent developments surrounding Doc in the thread right now, why is this your choice of focus? It strikes me as self-evidently going nowhere.

On December 31 2014 16:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

@Eden - I'm not much good at anything besides reading in between the lines and bullying (apprentice of Ace style), but when I start to see the things I understand and that jump out of me I really stick to it. I do think you're town and that since you seem to be pretty diligent and detailed I feel good about what you might be able to add or pick out of my cases later. I'm actually pissed I didn't roll scum in this game. I started playing mafia as scum in like 8 straight games and then really got it again. I do look at meta if I'm really suspicious of someone or can't figure out their behavior. It's too much of a pain in the ass to do if I'm not gonna really make use of it

On January 01 2015 02:30 Damdred wrote:


Then why aren't you voting him? All of this push and you aren't voting?

On January 01 2015 02:38 justanothertownie wrote:

Nothing in this post makes him obviously scum.

On January 01 2015 02:56 Eden1892 wrote:
Lol Doc can be town then, he's ninjad me like twice in a row.

I get this bad feeling about Koshi too but I need to reread and make sure I'm not just being a donkey and suspecting someone for not seeing eye-to-eye with me.

On January 01 2015 02:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

If thechyz is town in this game you can write my tl sig. It's barely even about hypocrisy. Its about the foundation of his read....its fabricated obvioisly because eden was basically the only.player to make real accusations or do much up to thst point. Earlier he doesnt think it important enough to even offer his "largest scumread" when he can just lurk and tell.other players how they arent being useful

On January 01 2015 02:24 Eden1892 wrote:

I don't really see how you conclude this. His only justification for it is "defensive wording in each post where there always seems to be some idea of not jumpin on somebody too strongly." That just shows that Chyz saw a couple posts of mine. There's no discussion of the actual content of my post, nor is there discussion of anything else except ritoky going after Doc. In no sense beyond the superficial has Chyz shown he's following the thread at the time you posted this; anyone under pressure could have read one of my posts, found that to latch onto and thrown it out without actually needing to have considered the game state much.

Why do you conclude his read was thought out? It almost looks fabricated.

On January 01 2015 02:36 Eden1892 wrote:

But that's the problem. He didn't actually do the latter part. He just entered the thread to say "hey this is a stupid argument, stop having it" without actually taking the discussion in a different direction. I feel like your posts have been giving Chyz a lot more credit than he's actually earned and it's starting to bother me.

On January 01 2015 02:46 Eden1892 wrote:

this is a really good point that should make anyone saying "Chyz is town for trying to stop a stupid argument" think. If you believe his story then, he would have been sitting on a point no one else had made up until then. If you're a townie looking to move discussion away from what you feel is a bad line of discussion and you have a unique top suspect, why wouldn't you post that in the same post and why would it take someone else pushing you to do something to say it?

On January 01 2015 02:53 Eden1892 wrote:
That was easier than I thought. Start here and read all of 3 posts down:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/474082-imperial-mafia?page=18#344

You'll see that aside from ritoky joking about a spreadsheet the three posts, in consecutive order, are:
- ritoky saying he's tunnelling too hard and was going to try to stop
- Chyz saying the argument isn't going anywhere and needs to stop
- Doc saying he gets where the argument comes from and explaining himself, which became the last post of the argument

The way Koshi keeps framing Chyz's post you would think Chyz came in while it was at full swing and tried to defuse it. No, he comes in right at the very end of it, after it had died down, and criticizes it for going nowhere. I think that's why it seemed so awkwardly-timed earlier, because my immediate thought in my head was "Uh... ok... they stopped arguing about it already... why is that your big thing to talk about right now?"

On January 01 2015 06:24 Eden1892 wrote:
If Koshi doesn't start doing something then I might have to throw out my "attack the forgiver" tell and kill Chyz instead.

Currently I'm cool with a geript or Chyz lynch. I guess I'll need to read Lazermonkey and see what the fuss was about too. I kinda miss Palmar and marv and a little bit of Arty (although he's posted a bit), their names and JAT made me interested in the first place and JAT's the only one doing anything so far.

On January 01 2015 07:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Who do you wanna lynch geript? Got anything besides doubt and jokes?

On January 02 2015 01:45 justanothertownie wrote:
Why does it matter if geript has them as top scumreads?

On January 01 2015 05:59 IAmRobik wrote:
I kinda wanna lynch TheChyz to see if DrH is right

On January 01 2015 01:58 TheChyz wrote:
I don't like how koshi entered the thread. But afterwards he makes a decent defense of me and seems to be able to make a coherent read on me. I don't see a point to defend me as scum so early on with little votes and as such that leans town to me.

I don't see where people are getting this geript thing. If someone can enlighten me but I liked his intros into the thread, nothing amazing but better than the other fluff people were posting. Later on he has seem to slacked off a bit but other than not seeming to scum hunt as much as I'm used he doesn't seem scummy. null for me. Maybe you guys know him better than I and have a bad feeling but I don't see anything conclusive.

I don't like lazer atm. He hasn't really done any scum hunting this game and is rehashing old stuff and using it again. The read on robik is w/e. Robik has done nothing except "activity" posts so obv that doesn't look good as town. However him making a read on those 2 robik posts and having nothing on anybody else apart from me doesn't sit right. His case on me can be thought of both ways and as such is pointless. Basically his reasoning is if I was scum and was asked to push my thoughts I would. But the same case can be made of me as town. I don't like his play atm and want more from him.
##Vote: Lazermonkey

On January 01 2015 02:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I kinda like how paranoid Chyz is being.

On January 01 2015 02:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Like, everyone's jumping down on his throat and he starts his post with "I don't like how Koshi entered the thread" which is pretty much the only person that really defended him.

On January 01 2015 03:52 TheChyz wrote:
I'm having some trouble with koshi after thinking it some. Basically once koshi started defending me, thats mostly all that koshi has contributed to the thread. Just talks about me being town and dr.H being wrong in his read. Like the first time seeing it it felt fine but the longer this game goes, that is all that koshi has been really on. Nothing much else apart from saying "this person is fine, these people are on my scum list, etc". I haven't really felt like I have gotten anything from koshi.

And his read on me just seems to good to not have a decent enough read on somebody else. Again I don't get why a scum would poke their head out this early to defend a lynch that doesn't have traction yet but the longer he does it the more it seems like koshi just knows im town but hasn't added too much to the thread other than that. Just seems suspicious to me.

On January 01 2015 04:00 Eden1892 wrote:

I really like this post for town. You know the old tell about forgiving your attacker that mafia tend to do, because they know the person attacking them is right and they would rather defuse the threat with kindness and cordiality instead of trying to engage someone they know is right?

It's the opposite here. I feel like attacking your forgiver is a good town tell. Mafia don't turn around and get after people who are defending them, and doubly so if they're actually under some significant suspicion. Mafia do numbers-crunching and try to see how many people they can keep on their side and don't try to attack people defending them to gain town credit. It just doesn't make sense.

I feel better about Chyz for this post

On January 02 2015 13:08 Eden1892 wrote:
Maybe there's something here.


This post is strange, because he says that Robik is deviating from both his normal town and normal mafia behavior, and thus that makes him mafia. I guess the argument is that there's greater deviation from his normal town game than from his normal mafia game, but batsnacks, in making a self-professed "lame meta read," expressly notes that Robik is deviating from both of his normal games. This bothers me because it doesn't match my thought process if I'm in batsnacks' shoes:
1. If someone is deviating from both their normal town game and normal mafia game, my first thought is that there must be extenuating circumstances responsible for the deviation. Deliberate change in play style, extended absence due to work, or a holiday, like, say, Iunno, New Year's Eve... these would be where I'd look for explanations, not "Robik is mafia."
2. Perhaps more telling, but if I find myself deciding my read on someone is lame, I don't bring it up and I certainly don't put my vote down for them. I keep looking.

Tellingly, he never pushes the Robik lynch and never really brings it up in subsequent posts.

batsnacks then later proposes that Chyz might have been milking his Koshi read for town credit, ignoring the fact that Chyz's read on Koshi changed in the two instances batsnacks cites to support it. This "contribution" is senseless to me.



He never actually does anything with this, either. Not only is the question fundamentally flawed, it doesn't seem to be going anywhere, and he isn't really doing anything with it. He talks some more about it but again, it doesn't really get to the conclusion "lynch Chyz" or anything. Even if batsnacks didn't horribly misinterpret what Chyz said, this wouldn't be the tenth most incriminating case on Chyz in this thread even if we took out the cases DoctorHelvetica made.

The last page of batsnacks' filter seems similarly unproductive and unhelpful. A "fuck you Chyz" and a vote, presumably for self-voting, which, as I've already argued, probably shouldn't be there because Chyz seems town. Some random mechanics/roles stuff that doesn't really matter. A couple of general "is anybody there?" type questions and, notably, no real effort to push the Lazermonkey read he was so hard on earlier.

I don't get the sense this guy cares about who we kill. Maybe it's time we make him care.

##UNVOTE: geript
##VOTE: batsnacks

On January 02 2015 13:16 Eden1892 wrote:

Wait, so if he hadn't self-voted you wouldn't vote him. But you're voting him because you won't let a self-voting mafia off the hook? Does that mean you think he's mafia and weren't voting him because ??? or does that mean you don't think he's mafia but are voting him now because ???

And the point isn't that no one is voting Lazermonkey or Robik. The point is you made both reads with plenty of time to push them, so if you thought they were mafia, why didn't you try to develop a case people would vote for? Why leave them as weak and easily-ignored as they were?

On January 02 2015 13:34 justanothertownie wrote:

Then you should try not to be mislynched if you are town. Currently you are leading the votecount if I am not mistaken. So if you want to win the game as town you should show me a better target right now.

On January 02 2015 13:52 Eden1892 wrote:
JAT, sicklucker, let's sort out geript later. You guys are no better than batsnacks if you spite-vote geript for a stealth vote

On January 02 2015 14:24 geript wrote:
Not ideal. I just assumed I was going to be lynched or at worst Chyz. Best option Vivax. I get why Bat was sketch, but why the last second switch?

On January 02 2015 13:56 Fecalfeast wrote:

I kount vot

ritoky (1): DoctorHelvetica, sicklucker, marvellosity, Superbia

TheChyz (3): Eden1892, DoctorHelvetica, Vivax, TheChyz, Batsnacks, DoctorHelvetica, Artanis[Xp]

DoctorHelvetica (0): TheChyz, Koshi

geript (4): Koshi, Artanis[Xp], Palmar, Artanis[XP], Lazermonkey, DoctorHelvetica, Marvellosity, justanothertownie, KelsierSC, sicklucker, Eden1892

marvellosity (0): Artanis[Xp]

Lazermonkey (0): TheChyz, Batsnacks

IAmRobik (0): Artanis[XP]

sicklucker (1): ritoky

Vivax (2): Koshi, geript

Batsnacks (6): Justanothertownie, eden1892, doctorhelvetica, artanis[Xp], damdred, sicklucker

Not Voting: folks

Currently batsnacks is set to be lynched.

until deadline.

On January 02 2015 16:01 Eden1892 wrote:

What's up? I don't feel like messing with vote count analysis any more right now.

What do you think about geript? I feel like his explanation is obviously BS and yet at the same time it's hard to understand why he wouldn't just put the nail in town!batsnacks coffin if he were mafia.

On January 02 2015 15:58 Eden1892 wrote:
Alright, here's some vote count analysis. First, the count, hidden behind double quotes for readability. Added green for batsnacks' flip.


First thing I want to look at is outliers, because I think they tend to be easier to figure out. The three wagons at end of day were Chyz, geript and batsnacks, so all other voters are defined as outliers here. They are:

Superbia
ritoky
Koshi
geript

Additionally the nonvoting RebirthOfLegend can go here.

Superbia:
Has all of two posts in the game, neither of any substance. Says ritoky claimed mafia with their big reads post without explaining why, votes ritoky and then bails for the rest of the day, not bothering to convince anyone to vote for ritoky. Ignores JAT asking for an explanation, no one else really seems to care either way.

I don't like this. For all I can derive from Superbia's thought process from this vote, this might as well be a dice roll vote. There's nothing here for me to make any sense of. If Superbia is town and believes ritoky is mafia then why not try to convince anyone to kill ritoky? And if Superbia doesn't then why completely abandon the thread and not bother to try to figure out who is mafia?

ritoky:
After the vote (which came between his big reads list post and his next post itt), ritoky only brings up the case on sicklucker once... when sicklucker questions him on it. Spends most of the day being engaged in other discussions and feeling out other players for their direction, but doesn't push the case on sicklucker. And it's not even not pushing it because of a change of heart or anything, as far as I can see. The case is just dropped altogether without any mention, like it never existed. After talking to sicklucker there's only one passing reference to the suspicion at all (responding to GlowingBear and saying they were "on the same page" concerning, among others, sicklucker).

This is really suspicious considering how aggressively ritoky pushed early in the game. Even allowing for a change in posting style due to time constraints resulting from ER work, you figure that if ritoky is still sure about the read on sicklucker that there'd be some effort to push it. And ritoky can't even claim to have had a change of heart, because sometime during ritoky's last burst of activity, (s)he posted an updated vote count including the vote for sicklucker. I feel like if I were a townie here and I had posted that vote count update after suspecting sicklucker, and I had internally changed my mind about sicklucker being mafia, posting that I was voting for sicklucker would be a wakeup call. Like "whoa, wait, I'm still on that guy? I need to move my vote."

Koshi:
Arrived at suspicion of Vivax about an hour before posting a vote, pressed Vivax on a few key questions during that hour, pushed the hell out of a Vivax lynch before going to bed at a time which 100% syncs up with his irl location.

Sorry that was short but this looks clean as can be. Only reason Koshi was on an outlier was because of a lack of time to push the case once it formulated. Koshi is probably town.

geript:

This is garbage.

Vivax wasn't a viable wagon at all when geript posted and geript had enough time to see that. It was 20 minutes before the lynch. The switch wasn't even last-second, it was last-hour. At the time he voted Chyz was in no danger of being voted off. How do you check in to a voting thread and vote for someone who isn't a viable wagon out of fear that either you or someone else who isn't a viable wagon is going to get killed? And especially if you "get why Bat was sketch," how in the world do you have a hangup about voting for him and instead park on an outlier?

And then there's this gem shortly before:



So now it's checking into a voting thread, voting for someone you're not even sure is mafia who also isn't a viable wagon out of fear that either you or someone else who isn't a viable wagon is going to get killed.

geript has a lot of explaining to do. Doc asks a good question about why mafia!geript does this in light of batsnacks flipping town; I feel like the answer that came to mind for me (not wanting to be a town wagon) isn't a very good one, and it's still the best one I have. But I don't get the townie mindset that leads to ^^^that.


TL;DR
ritoky, Superbia mafia
geript wtf

On January 02 2015 15:58 Eden1892 wrote:
Alright, here's some vote count analysis. First, the count, hidden behind double quotes for readability. Added green for batsnacks' flip.


First thing I want to look at is outliers, because I think they tend to be easier to figure out. The three wagons at end of day were Chyz, geript and batsnacks, so all other voters are defined as outliers here. They are:

Superbia
ritoky
Koshi
geript

Additionally the nonvoting RebirthOfLegend can go here.

Superbia:
Has all of two posts in the game, neither of any substance. Says ritoky claimed mafia with their big reads post without explaining why, votes ritoky and then bails for the rest of the day, not bothering to convince anyone to vote for ritoky. Ignores JAT asking for an explanation, no one else really seems to care either way.

I don't like this. For all I can derive from Superbia's thought process from this vote, this might as well be a dice roll vote. There's nothing here for me to make any sense of. If Superbia is town and believes ritoky is mafia then why not try to convince anyone to kill ritoky? And if Superbia doesn't then why completely abandon the thread and not bother to try to figure out who is mafia?

ritoky:
After the vote (which came between his big reads list post and his next post itt), ritoky only brings up the case on sicklucker once... when sicklucker questions him on it. Spends most of the day being engaged in other discussions and feeling out other players for their direction, but doesn't push the case on sicklucker. And it's not even not pushing it because of a change of heart or anything, as far as I can see. The case is just dropped altogether without any mention, like it never existed. After talking to sicklucker there's only one passing reference to the suspicion at all (responding to GlowingBear and saying they were "on the same page" concerning, among others, sicklucker).

This is really suspicious considering how aggressively ritoky pushed early in the game. Even allowing for a change in posting style due to time constraints resulting from ER work, you figure that if ritoky is still sure about the read on sicklucker that there'd be some effort to push it. And ritoky can't even claim to have had a change of heart, because sometime during ritoky's last burst of activity, (s)he posted an updated vote count including the vote for sicklucker. I feel like if I were a townie here and I had posted that vote count update after suspecting sicklucker, and I had internally changed my mind about sicklucker being mafia, posting that I was voting for sicklucker would be a wakeup call. Like "whoa, wait, I'm still on that guy? I need to move my vote."

Koshi:
Arrived at suspicion of Vivax about an hour before posting a vote, pressed Vivax on a few key questions during that hour, pushed the hell out of a Vivax lynch before going to bed at a time which 100% syncs up with his irl location.

Sorry that was short but this looks clean as can be. Only reason Koshi was on an outlier was because of a lack of time to push the case once it formulated. Koshi is probably town.

geript:

This is garbage.

Vivax wasn't a viable wagon at all when geript posted and geript had enough time to see that. It was 20 minutes before the lynch. The switch wasn't even last-second, it was last-hour. At the time he voted Chyz was in no danger of being voted off. How do you check in to a voting thread and vote for someone who isn't a viable wagon out of fear that either you or someone else who isn't a viable wagon is going to get killed? And especially if you "get why Bat was sketch," how in the world do you have a hangup about voting for him and instead park on an outlier?

And then there's this gem shortly before:



So now it's checking into a voting thread, voting for someone you're not even sure is mafia who also isn't a viable wagon out of fear that either you or someone else who isn't a viable wagon is going to get killed.

geript has a lot of explaining to do. Doc asks a good question about why mafia!geript does this in light of batsnacks flipping town; I feel like the answer that came to mind for me (not wanting to be a town wagon) isn't a very good one, and it's still the best one I have. But I don't get the townie mindset that leads to ^^^that.


TL;DR
ritoky, Superbia mafia
geript wtf

On January 02 2015 14:24 geript wrote:
Not ideal. I just assumed I was going to be lynched or at worst Chyz. Best option Vivax. I get why Bat was sketch, but why the last second switch?

On January 02 2015 12:23 geript wrote:
Vivax is probably an ok lynch but I'm not actually sold that he'll flip mafia.

ya im done, this game has been such a mispleasure to play. Thanks dr.H, great game played by you. Best town player by far. You caught the scum. Here are my current notes btw.

On January 02 2015 12:49 Eden1892 wrote:

...meanwhile, Chyz apparently decided to self-vote and leave. Ugh.

Forget I said this, I was reading Chyz town until he did that and him doing it reads frustrated town rather than mafia. I can't really see why a mafia would bother posting a huge reads list that would just leave his teammates at risk of getting caught by association if he's going to self-vote. You self-vote as mafia to end the day quicker and get people complacent with that vote, not to give them a road map for how to find your team.

As for why, I go back to that large case Chyz wrote on Lazermonkey and it rings so genuine to me. Maybe I'm just a sucker for his opening line about excessive emotional investment but I feel like it would take a stone cold liar to throw something like that out as mafia just to excuse your previous play. I know there's nothing that actually stops you from doing that as mafia, but I figure if you're making up an excuse for your previous absence, you're going to pick something that sounds plausible, which means the excuse you're going to give is deliberate and something you've thought about. Something about claiming you were "too emotionally invested for my own health" seems... out of bounds, you know? Hopefully this makes sense to someone else cause I think it makes perfect sense to me but I can't really find the words. Just seems like lying about your emotional well-being is a shitty thing to do to win a game. And I'm gonna admit I didn't actually read the case on Lazermonkey beyond recognizing that it was one of those classic confirmation bias supertrains that everybody who's ever played town enough times has taken themselves on.

And the emotional-investment thing kinda proved itself decisively when he self-voted, didn't it.

I'm not killing Chyz today and I really recommend others don't. I really wish he hadn't self-voted but I can't see how the sequence of posts of his at the end was from a mafia POV.

On January 03 2015 08:12 Eden1892 wrote:

Would you describe yourself as not confident in your read on geript on day 1?

Rereading the vote counts I believe the 4 town reads you cited were me, Doc, Arty and Damdred. Is that correct? If so, can you explain for me why you townread Artanis day 1? If not, can you tell me who they were?

On January 03 2015 08:39 Eden1892 wrote:
And in the meantime, can someone explain what was so bad about the batsnacks lynch? I still think it was acceptable and the only bad part about it was the flip. Still think my case on batsnacks was okay and I feel like it's a little cheap that a bunch of people logged on after batsnacks flipped and waxed poetic about how terrible a lynch it was without even engaging what was (in my perhaps-biased opinion) the most influential singular post in getting him killed.

Like if everyone's going to decree this lynch bad, it seems like questioning me about my case would be an obvious starting point to finding out if the batsnacks lynch was town- or mafia-driven. I was the most outspoken singular person in the final hour of the day for killing batsnacks, I wrote the biggest case that people seemed to follow. Yet as far as I'm aware not one of the people complaining about the lynch has asked me anything about it. It makes all this gnashing of teeth about the lynch ring incredibly hollow, like people are complaining about it because it's the in thing to do instead of trying to figure out what it means for the game.

On January 03 2015 08:53 Eden1892 wrote:

Someone else brought him up as a possible kill when there was roughly an hour or so left. I want to say Artanis without looking, but I don't know. I don't remember remembering anything batsnacks had done to that point, and I remember saying I would read batsnacks instead of someone else (I think Lazermonkey and Vivax?). I read his filter, examined the context of the posts I thought were important and made the case in a larger post.

I certainly wouldn't call it "right at the deadline," I think I made it with about 50 minutes left in the day, with at least a half-dozen people online to see it. Close, but not so close that people didn't have time to evaluate it for themselves.

I have to admit I don't really understand where your question is going.

On January 03 2015 09:09 Eden1892 wrote:

Thanks for spending time to run a word count on that post. What would you like to discuss instead?

On January 03 2015 09:12 Eden1892 wrote:

Well, you don't need my permission. (Do you?) What are you waiting for?

On January 03 2015 08:21 sicklucker wrote:


Correct. Like artanis was the one who called out gerit for his half ass poor read on me. From my pov hes correct so for day one hes totally town could be pocketed but less likely

On January 03 2015 09:28 Eden1892 wrote:

You said this about one of post of mine in a side tangent literally at the same time as multiple other, perhaps more directly salient lines of conversation were going on. You are just as guilty of "wasting time" on it as we are since you could have just left it alone and spent those posts talking about whatever you feel was a better use of your time.

And that's assuming all of that was indeed a waste, JAT apparently found it useful and for reasons outside the game I found it incredibly helpful as well (although I'll acknowledge that doesn't do anything for you in this game right now).

Please restate your most important thought right now for me.

On January 03 2015 09:32 Eden1892 wrote:

I wouldn't say I lack confidence, but I am on principle trying not to ruffle feathers, yes. There's another long-winded explanation for this involving out-of-game stuff that will give Robik an aneurysm if I explain though.

On January 03 2015 09:47 Eden1892 wrote:

I guess that's a decent breakdown, but I still find it misrepresenting to say that I broke it down into those three subsections, when it clearly (to me) reads more as a freeflowing assessment of batsnacks. Doubly so when you start couching it in terms of "isn't it weird how he had these 3 points he was instantly ready to make on batsnacks," as you've essentially been looking to do.

(1) is not quite correct. The read was off, as I explained; what made it suspicious to me is that there wasn't any followup to it, nor did it seem any other suspect had commanded his attention to distract him from following up. It just kinda gets dropped without any explanation. I admit I wasn't as clear on this as I should have been, though.

(2) is also not quite correct, and I feel like it's more clearly not quite correct than your reading of (1). Again, it's this attempt to read/contribute something about Chyz that doesn't make much sense that's weird, and the lack of meaningful direction or followup to it that's suspicious. I did call it a "horrible misinterpretation" but that's not why I found it suspicious.

(3) is pretty much correct, and is indeed suspicious given (1) and (2) constitute his main focuses in the thread.

And while it's not in the case itself, I feel it would be remiss to overlook the point I hammered home the most in my arguing for batsnacks to be lynched, which was that batsnacks was defaulting to a policy lynch on Chyz and pointedly refusing to tell me whether or not he actually thought Chyz was mafia.


And yeah, I know you're reading it, my point is that you've made multiple significant errors of fact and that you're not reading the case fairly. You entered your read of it wanting to find a way to make it fit into your preconceived notion that I came out of nowhere with 3 points I'd been sitting on in order to bury a townie, instead of reading it with a genuine interest in determining my alignment and the alignment of the people that followed my vote onto batsnacks.

On January 03 2015 10:14 Eden1892 wrote:

Er... sorry, what was the end point here? I know what you're referencing but I'm not following what you mean. I scumread Doc about an hour into d1 for reasons I don't remember now, I scumread Chyz for his entry post. Don't remember exactly when I said "one or the other is mafia" (fairly certain it was in the morning/early afternoon of NYE my time, which would be first half of d1) so I don't remember what prompted me to say it, but I do remember saying this. It ended up not being important because both Doc and Chyz helped me clarify my reads on them with certain other actions later into d1.

Where are you going here? It is a little odd to me that you're bringing up some things I said about Doc and Chyz from relatively early in d1 that aren't really relevant to my reads on them now.

On January 03 2015 09:47 sicklucker wrote:
Yes I was confident in the original lynch. I was confident in the other one too because of who was voting

On January 03 2015 12:17 Eden1892 wrote:

Do you know of any past examples where you were not confident in a day 1 read I can look up and compare to? Because even if that's "pretty confident as far as day one reads," that seemed really confident for "never very confident in any day one reads" to me, and I know I'm not alone in this.

On January 03 2015 11:45 sicklucker wrote:
Im never very confident in any day 1 reads is more what im saying especially my own. As far as day 1 reads tho I was pretty confident

Absolutely, in large part because of it. I never had a handle on much of Heavyweight as it was going on. I just got myself towncleared day 1 by being spammy and trolly and coasted until everyone else who was talking died, and I got so wrapped up in trying to be spammy and trolly and funny that I forgot about actually playing the game. I did what I could to salvage it and tried to find the mafia at the end, but I was so far behind the eight ball that it's doubtful I would have really come back to win even if the mafia team hadn't played absurdly well.

This began a decline in my online town play with some egregiously disastrous mislynches I drove and mafia I defended, because I took the wrong lessons from the game. Here's what I should have learned from it and did learn after having another disastrous performance recently in my Facebook group:

I think that hit the high points, if you care to hear more I can go dig up FB chats from the past 2 weeks and talk more about individual happenings but I think this should suffice.