EPTCan you read KelsierSC and Vivax for me?
To be clear you iff'd Froggy due to no posts (ok like 2) and sheeped him based off towning either/or/all of Ritoky, Damdred (you towned him in your list), and HF?
TL Mafia LXIX: Carol Of The Bells - Page 2
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
Can you read KelsierSC and Vivax for me? To be clear you iff'd Froggy due to no posts (ok like 2) and sheeped him based off towning either/or/all of Ritoky, Damdred (you towned him in your list), and HF? | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On December 10 2014 02:34 Half the Sky wrote: Tube, regarding Kush, it was hard to tell, using meta (either myself or Damdred, who has played with him more), he was fine because his posts are sporadic as town, but without meta, using the Scrooge claim and considering the ninja vote, he was looking pretty scumlike. Others (Xatalo) I know for sure was saying they haven't seen him this "nonsensical" before. I went through FF again. He's still mostly null until I get to a few posts, but what is coming off as scumlike is his thoughts is the post on LS and his last post to Ritoky. It's not strong, but I don't know why he's brushing Ritoky off like that. Ritoky generally speaking has been reasonable so far d1. Kitaman's reads are coming in as pretty town seeing his thought process and reasoning from last night and today. I think the only reason I'm not scumming Kush is from what I've read of him during the Campus/Student thread (whichever one he was in). I do want to wait, as there are still 3-4 people who haven't introduced themselves yet. Plus, we have 24+ hours still. I can't read FF at all. Not even including the campus/student threads which I just only read. I give him a pass on his push on LS though but that's mostly because I'm biased against, continue to blame, and am still pissed that LS killed himself as a Cop D1 in one of your games. God damn it. Nothing to me sticks out on Ritoky other than he challenged Froggy for the plynch post, and didn't respond to 27NB's vote on him, Kitaman seems like a strong player which basically means I'll follow him towny unless he does something weird. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On December 10 2014 02:57 Vivax wrote: My main point is his strange focus on "who is scumreading whom" rather than "why is this person supposed to be scum". In his entrance post he implicitly says he's scumreading bunnies but not HTS, he doesn't talk about why he scumreads bunnies or why bunnies is a good lynch. He asks two people that seem to be doing the talk seemingly randomly about their reasons for not scumreading bunnies over HTW. He doesn't do that cause he suspects these two people, but cause he thinks they're looking good, as he himself states Yet this opinion of his isn't substantiated by what these people wrote. In fact we don't know why he gives them such high value when their opinion conflict with his. Why didn't he list HF there, or me? If bunnies is his main scumread like mine and HF's, why does he value the conflicting opinions more. So I think he just picked out two guys he thought to be influential and started talking to them about stuff to look like he's contributing, and added the setup talk on top, to contribute some more. Adding the introduction "Oh wow I'm reading so much". As said, for a scum with the game solved they will rather focus on the different wagons and the people on it and their reasons rather than real reasons for people being read one way or another, they will try to position themselves "politically" and this is what it looks like to me. I didn't think you were active in the thread, and when I caught up my reading, the main posters were Koshi and Xata. I thought they both had a lot of substance in their posts but I didn't agree with their HTS read specifically. I wanted a divergent view to see if I was missing something. In my reply to you the first time I'm pretty sure I said I wouldn't ask you simply because I feel we have similar reads and I knew I wouldn't be able to phrase anything to gain anything new from you. You'd either be irritated I'm rehashing something that already had 15 pages dedicated to it, or you'd rehash what I already read about it. To a lesser extent I feel the same applies to HF. I feel I'm vetting your and HF's read (and mine). I didn't find Koshi's answer to be more than opinion. He just replied, "HTS" posts are confusing and muddled. Yeah well so are mine. So, just to be clear, my read on HTS and 27BN are so far unchanged. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
I read HTS null/town. I agreed with her reasoning concerning 27NB and Froggy. I don't see her spearheading/pushing people (her posts are 95% answering others) but she is information gathering and analyzing. She (while pushed) tried to examine Kush's Scrooge claim, and I think she basically meant she doesn't know but it's overall scummy and his behavior also is scummy. Which I agree with, My read on Kush is confused but he's more harmful to town/Nice than good. He's my 2nd maybe 3rd lynchvote (Lian is the other). Can you update your read on either Bats or Fecal? | ||
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On December 10 2014 08:25 batsnacks wrote: I caught up. Time for a blind list post without reviewing anything: Lynch vivax Why? | ||
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On December 10 2014 08:36 batsnacks wrote: Lynch vivax The only thing I remember about him is that his posts are all about the same length with about the same formatting. I don't actually remember what any of his posts said. Someone actually had to point out to me earlier that vivax and HTS had similar thoughts on froggy.[/QUOTE] He's pushed a few people, why isn't that towny? I like that he pushed me without even talking to me so he was able to get 2 responses from differing people at the same time. His posts had thought in them I agreed with what he said earlier in the day, and see why he's questioning me. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On December 10 2014 08:31 27ninjabunnies wrote: Vivax- after reading through his filter seems really town to me. Actually probably one of my top towns at the moment. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=40#791 This post explain why. I think I've explained why I put Froggy as iffy, vivax, at that time. What do you think? Also, In that post you mention you don't like Koshi, or more so he's freaking you out. Can you go a little bit more into Koshi, and what kind of read you've made on him since that post? Thank you for responding. I think Vivax is null/town as well. I believe Keslier is bad for town. I'm not sure he will flip naughty, but most all his early posts were total fluff and for lack of better word he was flirting with you (Probably becuase I'm a sexist bastard but I am willing to bet he wouldn't have had the same length of interaction with someone he thought was a guy). It was pretty wasteful, and then I think he realized he needed to do something to look towny and thought "Hey, I'll fish for Scrooge since no one would be dumb enough to claim Scrooge" (Yes, I stand by that statement even with Kush's claim). I thought it was scummy to continue playing along with the Kels interactions despite their unproductivity and there seemingly other discussions floating around. Why not engage Templur or Slam, why'd you continue to give any attention to Kels? In your first list, you "iffy" I think it was Froggy, Kita, Fecal. You Null NF, Vivax and Kelsi. You note in your Null list that it's for tunnelling (NF) and for 2 defenders which were V and Kel. In your defense of Froggy (you had 3ish posts defending Froggy) in one of them you stated how NF did essentially the same thing? So, why null NF and scum Froggy? 27ninjabunnies United States. December 09 2014 09:32. Posts 1987 Gift TL+ PM Profile Report Quote # filter @ Slam @ Damdred Didn't HF basically do just the same thing? Except more of he came into the thread with "Omgerd we have cap posts. Im town, follow me later" and then leaves. And yet, Damdred, you have him as town for basically a shit post? While I agree, people talking about policy lynching and lurkers seem off, he seems just an easy target for people to scum read because of that. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On December 10 2014 09:18 27ninjabunnies wrote: Okay, I reread this like 3 times and had trouble understanding your last paragraph, so I'll try and answer the best way I can. I don't have scum on Froggy. I had an iffy. Iffy for me does not mean that he is scum. It's more of a null. The scum list for me would be the "People I need to look at". When I make reads, I put them under categories that'll best explain where my mind was at at that moment. I realize, prob doesnt work for other people reading. I took your iffy as scum. Your list had 3 categories. So, at the time you're saying you had 0 scum reads? On December 09 2014 09:02 27ninjabunnies wrote: He'll be here in five minutes so I'll leave you with this: Templar Town Damdred Town Slam semitownie Those I need to look more at: HF Vivax Kelsier Iffy: Froggy Kita (I expected more than just hey) Fecal I don't really like how two people jumped to defend me. That always makes me skeptical. Don't get me wrong, thank you for that, because it's absolutely true and makes sense. HF is making something out of nothing. Idk if it's reaction testing? Or backlash for me calling him out on his post. tbh, I'm not counting how many posts I make. I type a lot, I ask a lot of questions. If I get near my cap, well then, atleast I know I made a difference in the beginning of the day, instead of arguing later. Have fun everyone, and see you tomorrow! I understand that you don't want to call it a solid scum (or town for that matter) but you can understand how someone reads this and thinks your list is town/null/scum vs town/null/justundernull? My last paragraph question is, why is HF less iffy than Froggy? You spent 3 posts on why Froggy wasn't scummy yet placed him in your most negative category. Why?? On December 09 2014 08:50 27ninjabunnies wrote: Ummm no, In every game I have played, people always first attack the guy who talks about policy lynching and lurkers, whether doing it is bad or good. The same thing is happening this game. I don't think it is alignment indicative for froggy. I would need him to talk more to get a read. I'm just saying that there's no sense in attacking someone for something that seems "scummy" when it isn't. It seems off to everyone else, which is why people are targeting him, you get what I'm saying? On December 09 2014 08:41 27ninjabunnies wrote: I'm not brushing it off, I' trying to look at it objectively. I think what he said makes sense. A. I know what he said. I said he was talking about policy lynching and lurkers. I never specifically said what he thought about it. I don't think it's scummy. I think people are making something scummy out of nothing. Thanks for the vote  I knew it was to happen eventually, but I figured Ritoky would be the first to do it!And I will enjoy my date  Food and alcohol. what's better? | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On December 10 2014 08:31 27ninjabunnies wrote: Can you go a little bit more into Koshi, and what kind of read you've made on him since that post? Ok, sorry I missed this part during my attempt at formatting my first response. Koshi is null/town for me. I like that after his first big post he doesn't really push his agenda and seems to be genuinely information gathering. He'd be top third of my nice pile. His first post was long and I'll admit I'm one of those suckers for long posts. I disagreed with his Kelsier read but I'll post more on Kels later. I completely disagreed with his HTS assessment. I don't scum Lightning but it's not because he doesn't act crazy scummy it's because I've decided he's just bad. I should try to wade through his posts to find a single non meta type read. I don't think LS has any idea who the thread thinks is town. I'm sorry, I agree with him on you (NB). While I didn't have any idea about your experience, if you're town it seemed like your arguments were very muddled (which is what people criticize HTS for, but you seemed worse in the beginning). I'm with him on Obi. Seems like he's not interested in playing. I hope Obi shows up with some well thought out reads. Koshi isn't the first to say he's bored with someone/the thread (GB). I'm not following the significance of why people say they are bored? Is it to garner more dramatic posts? Saying people are not contributing being towny therefore everyone is acting scummy? I'm going to WIFOM myself to death on this claim (generally not specifically Koshi's boredom claim). Anyway, I don't necessarily agree with a lot of stuff Koshi says but his posts seem inquisitive and like he's thinking. If I see him posting while I still am on I'll be asking him questions for sure. | ||
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On December 10 2014 10:06 kitaman27 wrote: I think you're missing the point of what I'm saying. I'm not asking if FF's post about tube is valid. I'm asking why the same exact reasoning could apply to two players, yet he draws a town read on one and a scum read on the other. I know you're not really asking me, but I think it's more a judgement on good/bad play versus town/scum. FF hasn't decided how bad I am yet, he's already labelled LS bad. I know LS was D1 killed in 2 games one of which he was the cop and still claimed but while I was reading it, I thought his play was so scummy he fake claimed. (Course someone CC'd and really sealed his fate). So, if I were in FF's shoe's I'd judge Tubesack town/scum, but then just dismiss LS completely. This is what I'm doing basically, I think LS is a plynch. I'd rather find a scummy player than kill LS who's just as likely to flip town as not. | ||
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United States2726 Posts
Bah, I think it is an irrelevant post. | ||
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On December 10 2014 10:08 Half the Sky wrote: Kitaman, what you just posted: To me, that shows inconsistency in FF's explanation in applying how meta is used. I am also making the assumption here that LS and Slam were NOT together in the Titanic Game. Both players are studying threads from other games, but FF seeing Tube doing this as a new player....I do not see how that's more town or scumlike than any other player doing research outside the thread, barring a scum QT. Considering LS and at least one more player have said they are doing research outside the thread, I wouldn't be surprised if Tubesack saw this and just went ahead and did the same thing. And with that, 1am here means I need to head to bed, with work again at 8am. I've sort of done research outside this thread. Basically, I was bored last thursday and was curious what the TL Mafia category was (SC2 and Kerbal Space Program were slow). I clicked on the Student Mafia link and just got sucked in. I binged read that till page 108 I think. I then started reading the Campus (tried to read the MS paint one but it didn't suck me in at all) and stopped around page 90 or so. Then I saw this post for this game and /obs'd but talked myself (with encouragement from others to just /in. Now you're stuck with my rambling. | ||
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United States2726 Posts
On December 10 2014 10:36 rsoultin wrote: ...you're judging yourself? In 2nd person? That's...different. Also I get the feeling you just said LS sucks at playing so should be ignored (at least for now). Is that more or less what you were driving at here? Yes, exactly. | ||
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United States2726 Posts
On December 10 2014 10:45 Alakaslam wrote: Yes, FTR. Currently I still vote LS however. What is FTR? | ||
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United States2726 Posts
I"m not understanding the Xatas wagon. You guys don't claim 27NB is less scummy than Xatas, but switch due to him being a bit waffly and saying that the 27NB wagon is dangerous as it's a Mafia driven lynch. So, Xatas is scummy for suggesting a wagon switch, but you guys are switching and not claiming 27NB is town??? Wut? I saw the 27NB "iffy" clarification was brought up. Are you guys not calling bullshit on that? She had 3 categories of people but effectively said that 2 of them were the same category. Riiiiight. Don't even try to say that her "iffy" category was null while her "Those I need to look more at:" category is the scummier one unless you post some evidence of behavior by any human that suggests they would prefer to organize categories by Best/Worst/Middle. Help me out Viv, you were a really solid Town for me. My question to you is also, why is 27NB less scummy than Xatas (who I totally agree with you on)? | ||
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[b## Vote: NinjaBunnies[/b] | ||
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I'm ##voting Xatalos but will switch back to NB later if people don't think she claimed or still wagon her. I'll be back a few hours before EoD. | ||
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United States2726 Posts
On December 10 2014 19:06 LoneMeow wrote: Why did you vote Xatalos after saying you don't understand the wagon and essentially making a light push on the opposing wagon? I was pissed. I'm still mad. Once Koshi responded that my post was completely worthless due to the claim which I missed. I reverted to my previous read of Viv and sheeped him. I calmed down a bit and thought about my scum read on Obi, my uncertainty about Rasputin, and realized that all through their talk about Xatas they never cited NB as a claimed role. So, I ninja'd back my vote to 27NB. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
Kelsier, I'm sorry, you're too heavily scum for me so I won't respond to you after this post. Your scum read on me is based on bad play not me being scum. Which I should be lynched/PK'd for eventually but not today. I think someone asked me about my HTS read. I think my read on her was null but after a few posts from her I'm town on her. I wanted to know why HTS was a better lynch than bunny, so I asked some randoms who were posting with coherent and thoughtful content. I also want to know why Viv thinks Xatas is a better lynch than bunny as I was towning Viv. Still am but not solidly. | ||
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