Out of the current wagons, I think the KSC wagon is the worst. He's made several plays that are unlikely to come from scum (baiting reactions by making himself look bad, suggesting delaying the 27nb lynch when he's next in line himself, etc.) and his posts during N1 seemed fine. The wagon on him also looks all but inspiring (all the voters are sketchy or at best somewhat nullish players).
Damn I can't really focus well right now. Anyways I looked at the case briefly earlier and I think KSC explained the last point decently during N1. I'll look at it again as soon as I can.
I can lynch KSC over HF/SL though if it comes down to it.
Well, I can see the appeal in that KSC case. Not sure about the ritoky point on its own since KSC explained that decently I think, but it seems like there's a larger theme of weird read changes during the game for him. It lends credibility to the idea that he's making stuff up. Forgetting several things and making a meta scumread without apparently knowing much about that particular meta. I think it's a decent lynch at least compared to some like HF/SL (and perhaps Tube too). It should also be somewhat telling of FF's alignment so it's not too bad.
I mean, look at this. The guy he first calls the worst wagon, is suddenly someone "he can lynch" before he even reviewed the KSC case.
Vivax, he was a worse lynch than ritoky or Tube, not worse than HF. Besides, by the end of D2, ritoky seemed better (considering the present analysis) and Tube looked better (his frantic deadline posting). Also I only said that I'd lynch KSC over HF before reading the case fully... Which had been my stance all along. You should really put a bit more effort in your arguments.
That's bullshit though, you mention arguments for Kelsier being town on multiple occasions, there is no evidence that all your arguments are based on PoE regarding Tube and ritoky.
You townread him for the trap play since D1, keep that argument all throughout D2, only to throw it away when it looks like he's getting lynched.
Out of the current wagons, I think the KSC wagon is the worst. He's made several plays that are unlikely to come from scum (baiting reactions by making himself look bad, suggesting delaying the 27nb lynch when he's next in line himself, etc.) and his posts during N1 seemed fine. The wagon on him also looks all but inspiring (all the voters are sketchy or at best somewhat nullish players).
Damn I can't really focus well right now. Anyways I looked at the case briefly earlier and I think KSC explained the last point decently during N1. I'll look at it again as soon as I can.
I can lynch KSC over HF/SL though if it comes down to it.
Well, I can see the appeal in that KSC case. Not sure about the ritoky point on its own since KSC explained that decently I think, but it seems like there's a larger theme of weird read changes during the game for him. It lends credibility to the idea that he's making stuff up. Forgetting several things and making a meta scumread without apparently knowing much about that particular meta. I think it's a decent lynch at least compared to some like HF/SL (and perhaps Tube too). It should also be somewhat telling of FF's alignment so it's not too bad.
I mean, look at this. The guy he first calls the worst wagon, is suddenly someone "he can lynch" before he even reviewed the KSC case.
Vivax, he was a worse lynch than ritoky or Tube, not worse than HF. Besides, by the end of D2, ritoky seemed better (considering the present analysis) and Tube looked better (his frantic deadline posting). Also I only said that I'd lynch KSC over HF before reading the case fully... Which had been my stance all along. You should really put a bit more effort in your arguments.
That's bullshit though, you mention arguments for Kelsier being town on multiple occasions, there is no evidence that all your arguments are based on PoE regarding Tube and ritoky.
You townread him for the trap play since D1, keep that argument all throughout D2, only to throw it away when it looks like he's getting lynched.
Yeah, his early plays (specifically the trap thing) were indeed more likely to come from town than scum. I still stand by those arguments even though he ultimately flipped scum. But the lynch was heading in the direction of KSC/HF so I just said things as they were (KSC would be the better lynch there). When I said that I hadn't fully read the case on him, but as I said earlier, KSC wasn't on the level of some of my other townreads that were being voted (HF/SL at the time) and the case clearly had some merit when so many decently townish posters (rsoultin for example?) agreed with it. When I got around to read the whole case, I could see for myself that there were some points about KSC's play that I hadn't been paying full attention when I was preoccupied with your stupid case on him. So yeah. I don't really get what you're trying to say.
Viva, you backed off KSC for basically telling you that he plays town differently than you. Xata, you basically WIFOMd that scum wouldn't make a play like that so read him as town.
Neither were great reasons.
Viva was even on top of KSC (and Xata by proxy) through most of Day 1, but then started focusing primarily on the reads of the killed townies for Day 2. You also did say that you'd more or less accepted both their arguments, so you going for an HF lynch isn't that out of character in that context, apart from not putting the work in like you did with your other reads.
Xata has consistently made reads/arguments based off the assumption that mafia won't do anything to draw attention to itself, and I believe was the first one to call out KSCs play and actually examine it beyond just asking what the hell he was doing asking scrooge to claim. This reads to me as a consistent bias against "ballsy" scum (made a similar argument against my comments on GB/ritoky earlier) and not necessarily protecting a partner.
Unless you two have more against one another, these points alone don't seem significant enough to scumread each other. Am I missing a key point somewhere?
Yes. The reasons for Xata switching at EoD look over-explained when the reason could simply have been that FF wasn't going to happen and KSC was his only remaining option.
He'd said before that he didn't want to lynch HF, didn't buy the case or the reasons. A lot of us were switching votes onto our third, fourth, fifth choices to avoid lynching town reads.
You could more or less make the same case against most of the people on the KSC lynch train, is the point.
I don't think I've ever actually scumread Vivax. He was actually one of my highest townreads at some point, but currently I'm not really sure what to think... It's weird how he totally dropped the push on me and suddenly just returned to it. And again with bad reasons. Thinking about it, I can't recall any great (or even that good) points that he's brought forth. Maybe I was wrong about him.
On December 15 2014 05:01 Xatalos wrote: I don't think I've ever actually scumread Vivax. He was actually one of my highest townreads at some point, but currently I'm not really sure what to think... It's weird how he totally dropped the push on me and suddenly just returned to it. And again with bad reasons. Thinking about it, I can't recall any great (or even that good) points that he's brought forth. Maybe I was wrong about him.
Dude you have no idea how formulaic and artificial you sound when you're scum. I remember that game where you were town and EVERYBODY had trouble reading you until town started winning. That's cause you were more natural and less diplomatic than you are now.
I'm here in the thread, talk to me, you put a vote with no effect on a scummer you townread since D1 right at EoD piling up a bunch of half-assed reasons. You ignored what I wrote on Kelsier D1. You townread him for trap play before he explained it was trap play. Yes, I already mentioned this.
And if you want to push me as scumread then start immediately cause I wanna have a good laugh.
I just filter-dived both of you, to be honest, and while I saw some questionable logic on both ends, I didn't get the impression that either of you were acting scummy. (And Viva, I was looking at you particularly close, even beginning to build a case, but there really wasn't one there to my eyes.)
I don't really understand the obsession with the town flips' scum lists though, Viva. That was your primary focus all day yesterday. Why? You don't really think scum is killing people for their scum lists like Tube does, do you?
On December 15 2014 03:57 LightningStrike wrote: I wont be here for EoN but Rito and the vig if we got one shoot the following people GlowingBear: Been trying to lynch HF since end of Day 1 and made a poor case of HF being scum Tubesock: Called me and sicklucker the most obvious town players mafia with little evidence and scum slipped earlier in the thread on how many mafia there is plus been acting scummy since Day 1. Oatsmaster: Totally off his game and wouldn't comment much at all and seemed scum because he normally would his points clear no matter what time of Day or Night to make sure a case is good and give clear direction which he didn't do this game.
On December 15 2014 05:05 rsoultin wrote: I just filter-dived both of you, to be honest, and while I saw some questionable logic on both ends, I didn't get the impression that either of you were acting scummy. (And Viva, I was looking at you particularly close, even beginning to build a case, but there really wasn't one there to my eyes.)
I don't really understand the obsession with the town flips' scum lists though, Viva. That was your primary focus all day yesterday. Why? You don't really think scum is killing people for their scum lists like Tube does, do you?
Look at the list of probably towns Kelsier wrote, look at the nightkills, start thinking why scum chooses certain people. It's for their appearance and their reads.
Then look at the D2 wagons knowing that it was a really close call between scum and between HF.
Obviously if HF is scum this all falls apart and I'd expect them to have gone full bus on Kelsier.
On December 15 2014 05:01 Xatalos wrote: I don't think I've ever actually scumread Vivax. He was actually one of my highest townreads at some point, but currently I'm not really sure what to think... It's weird how he totally dropped the push on me and suddenly just returned to it. And again with bad reasons. Thinking about it, I can't recall any great (or even that good) points that he's brought forth. Maybe I was wrong about him.
Dude you have no idea how formulaic and artificial you sound when you're scum. I remember that game where you were town and EVERYBODY had trouble reading you until town started winning. That's cause you were more natural and less diplomatic than you are now.
I'm here in the thread, talk to me, you put a vote with no effect on a scummer you townread since D1 right at EoD piling up a bunch of half-assed reasons. You ignored what I wrote on Kelsier D1. You townread him for trap play before he explained it was trap play. Yes, I already mentioned this.
And if you want to push me as scumread then start immediately cause I wanna have a good laugh.
No, he explained that it was a trap play well before I even came to the thread. You were already proven wrong earlier...
On December 09 2014 09:30 KelsierSC wrote: So i think fecal is scum, we played a game together as town and early game he was very try hard, essentially Kush made a set up/mechanics comment and fecal went back to the setup, worked through all the permutations and then asked Kush to explain. Super town super eager.
this game i make a set up comment, then retract it and ff doesn't bat n eyelid. All he does is talk to slam about sumo. Which is pretty pointless. Like "herez an excuse nit to scumhunt" it doesn't feel towny at all
On December 10 2014 09:15 KelsierSC wrote: Ah cool tubesock didn't read the thread.
my scrooge play was to get a specific read on ff i explained that before. Outside of that i have given lots of good town reads, all of which are developed reads not one liners, weird misrepresentation of my play again. If you need more explanation , ask.
fyi a guy talking to a girl isn't flirting, grow up.
Think what you will. You'll never lynch me with those arguments or some gut feeling on my meta... When I don't think you really even know my meta. I'm not always polite as scum or always a spamfest as town haha
On December 15 2014 05:21 Alakaslam wrote: You must see me vig
Yes
You see I have led you on the path of CHUPAZI
Yes
Indeed for at first there was failure; I spoke against the snare
Yes
Then there was confusion; I pointed as one also confused
For shame
Then I saw my former ways; I felt Tubesock must live however
Indeed
Nonetheless eventually we returned to the ways of my past
Yes
And we experienced victory
YEEEEEES
So now see also the ways of my past; I also disliked the LS
Orly?
Yes; I scumread the LS
Wow
So now I tell you he wants to kill GLOWINGBEAR
Duh
Who knows! KNOWS WHAT?!?
Knows of the scums!
Yes
Therefore you must shoot LS for he wants Tubesock AND GB dead!
And still thinks HF is town!
Yes
Lol, slam...regardless of your alignment, your more-than-occasional inscrutability at times, and what I actually think of your reads, I like having you around. Your posts make me smile.
That said, unless you've got a counterclaim for LS' claim or are just really certain, I'd think taking out the possible lylo problems would be more productive. I.e. froggy, for one. That guy still is coasting.
Shooting LS would be stupid when he claimed the Ghost role and nobody counter-claimed him (which they should have done immediately if there was someone to counter-claim since the role became useless).
EPT
