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On October 13 2014 09:39 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 09:36 ketchup wrote:
Also I want to mention, that you bringing up he may be blue/ townie with a role, is really frustrating to try to bring confusion/chaos into the game. This is especially so because you chose to do so in the voting stage when there were less than 30 minutes left. If you thought he may be blue, why didn't you mention it the first time he was being voted on? Why didn't you mention it a lot earlier? Like, does it actually save moonbear? Moonbear could have outlived the vote, but if this was actually a thing, do you think scum would let him past the night stage? Are you serious? I'm not going to out a suspected blue early on if he's not going to do himself. Ketchup I get it already, you don't like me, you think I'm scum. This nitpicking of everything I do is getting tiresome. Let me know when you sit back and rethink your bias.
I'm sorry that I try to analyze player moves, and try to wonder what motivation people have for making them. I'm sorry that you see this as "nitpicky"
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I dislike the deflection.
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On October 13 2014 10:08 onlywonderboy wrote:
I'm in the process of catching up on the thread now. Making progress but not sure if I'm gonna have anything useful to post tonight. Although I don't really want to waste a lot of time coming up with a theory or read that might just invalidated with the night kill. Just depends on if anything really blatant stands out.
It doesn't matter. Post what you have because you need to post for us to have information. I don't care if it is invalidated by night kills.
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On October 13 2014 12:53 onlywonderboy wrote:Nothing really else of note. Seemed like a pretty standard Day 1 from the mafia games I played. A lot of name calling and people trying their name, people calling out lurkers, ect. Had I been caught up with the game by lynch time I would have gone ahead with Wave and switched my vote.
How do you feel about tolkien? He has been active and fairly good to look into. What about Soniv? He has also made enough posts to get a feel for him
I also agree with your view about Asmo's after lynch post. It felt very forced in an overly dramatic way.
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On October 13 2014 13:35 Alzadar wrote:
This is from a ways back but the thread exploded while I was at dinner:
You guys were all discussing what to do if MB didn't show up, whether to lynch + modkill or just kill
MB. Then MB came and voted, making the discussion moot. Wave says "stfu about that now, let's talk about relevant stuff", and then ketchup pulls this "nu-uh, you're not my mom" bullshit. There's nothing wrong with trying to refocus the thread back towards the impending vote once the modkill was no longer going to happen.
This doesn't make me think ketchup is scum but it's definitely not helping us to jump down Wave's throat in an instance when his direction is obviously legitimate.
If you noticed in the time line, I actually did drop anything related to moonbear being mod killed after I noticed he came back. You can check again if you don't think so. I then focused on trying to get moonbear to give me more information, but he didn't respond too much afterwards. I was hoping to get more information from him. To me, the situation was resolved since moonbear actually posted.
I was sincerely afraid of a mod kill + day lynch since it was 1hr45min before the day end that I posted the scenario. It didn't help that there was a new vote train going on Ghandi at the time.
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Also regarding owb, I think he's definitely town(or as close to town as I can feel someone being town). He says enough small new things combined with the old that I can definitely trust him for it. I really like the Asmo read, and some of his smaller comments that make me feel he cares enough about the game to set it in the right direction.
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On October 14 2014 01:34 onlywonderboy wrote:
Seems a little odd you call out Alzadar for defending Wave when I've arguably been defending him much harder.
Reread Alaric's filter. He is fairly townie. He draws his own conclusions, and it lines up real town to me. I actually think this is a point in Alaric's favor. Those two Alzadar posts were just weird for me because they weren't fairly null. They didn't bring anything up that wasn't already long past. They were also contradictory unless I misunderstood something. In the first post, he says Wave should be left alone, but then in his second, he tries to get Wave to react to him:
On October 13 2014 13:35 Alzadar wrote:
This is from a ways back but the thread exploded while I was at dinner:
You guys were all discussing what to do if MB didn't show up, whether to lynch + modkill or just kill
MB. Then MB came and voted, making the discussion moot. Wave says "stfu about that now, let's talk about relevant stuff", and then ketchup pulls this "nu-uh, you're not my mom" bullshit. There's nothing wrong with trying to refocus the thread back towards the impending vote once the modkill was no longer going to happen.
This doesn't make me think ketchup is scum but it's definitely not helping us to jump down Wave's throat in an instance when his direction is obviously legitimate.
On October 13 2014 14:03 Alzadar wrote:Also hardly well-trod when just last page Wave is still posting stuff like Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 09:26 WaveofShadow wrote:
I won't discuss what I think people should be doing at night or not because again I'll probably be yelled at.
Do what you want. i.e. useful discussion being stifled, which is anti-town even if it's not intentional scum.
The bigger issue here is that I agree with Wave that Alzadar is just "bumbly". I think he is trying to help, but doesn't actually point out things I want to see or hear from him.
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Sorry, They were fairly null*
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On October 14 2014 01:48 WaveofShadow wrote:
I don't think those were contradictory---I think Alz was saying it was anti-town that discussion was being stifled not, that I was the one doing it. He can clarify though.
I think I did misunderstand but I would still like him to clarify himself there. I still think Alzadar is no where near trying to solve the game, and is just rarely, if at all, helpful for town. I wouldn't mind those posts he made if they were before the lynch, but it was way too late, and already things people said when it happened.
I really want to hear from ComaDose today as well.
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On October 14 2014 02:11 WaveofShadow wrote:
I am assuming at this point that we're dealing with 4 scum and a 3P (hopefully just survivor) but I have seen 4 scum and 3P with KP before, and that setup really sucks for us.
Your turn, if we're putting our cards on the table.
14 player game is 4 scum??? Is that real? Can you explain please. This is a legit inquiry because I assumed 3 scum + 1 3P(with possible KP).
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On October 14 2014 02:18 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 02:14 ketchup wrote:On October 14 2014 02:11 WaveofShadow wrote:
I am assuming at this point that we're dealing with 4 scum and a 3P (hopefully just survivor) but I have seen 4 scum and 3P with KP before, and that setup really sucks for us.
Your turn, if we're putting our cards on the table. 14 player game is 4 scum??? Is that real? Can you explain please. This is a legit inquiry because I assumed 3 scum + 1 3P(with possible KP). http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/442512-survivor-series-mafiaNo 3P here I remembered one of my other scumgames wrong as well, thought it was 14 with 4 scum and 3P but it was 16. I could swear there was another one recently with 4scum + 3P but I could be wrong.
Ok, so 4scum IS possible with 14. It is either 4 scum or 3 scum + 1 3P(with possible KP)
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On October 14 2014 02:20 Requizen wrote:
Filter check: Alaric
Feeling: Unknown/possible scum
Posting Habits: Observation
A good portion of Frenchie's posting is trying to encourage discussion, a lot of asking "name - what do you think of so-and-so?" This is not a bad thing, as encouraging discussion is good for the Town. However, there were relatively few posts with his own opinions. Perhaps he was just waiting for someone to ask him for them as he asks others, but it is worth noting.
I give possible scum, since pointedly asking people to post/critique one another is a very simple and easy way to stir up trouble. Not a particularly clever way to cause town disruption, but one that is effective if left unchecked. Low scum reading, but not 0 at the moment.
I really liked your posts so far today, but this one seems misguided. Alaric seems to draw his own conclusions and seems really likely town.
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On October 14 2014 02:22 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 02:21 ketchup wrote:On October 14 2014 02:18 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 14 2014 02:14 ketchup wrote:On October 14 2014 02:11 WaveofShadow wrote:
I am assuming at this point that we're dealing with 4 scum and a 3P (hopefully just survivor) but I have seen 4 scum and 3P with KP before, and that setup really sucks for us.
Your turn, if we're putting our cards on the table. 14 player game is 4 scum??? Is that real? Can you explain please. This is a legit inquiry because I assumed 3 scum + 1 3P(with possible KP). http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/442512-survivor-series-mafiaNo 3P here I remembered one of my other scumgames wrong as well, thought it was 14 with 4 scum and 3P but it was 16. I could swear there was another one recently with 4scum + 3P but I could be wrong. Ok, so 4scum IS possible with 14. It is either 4 scum or 3 scum + 1 3P(with possible KP) To be fair, Les was fairly scum favoured. We had a 2-shot vig on top of our nightly shot.
Thanks for clearing it up. I think it's highly likely for 3scum + 1 3P right now, but I don't really want to speculate too strongly about it here.
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On October 14 2014 02:25 mordek wrote:
Why are we talking about different games and numbers? This sounds like scum activity.
It matters to me a lot because it means a lot to me to know what I am looking for.
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On October 14 2014 02:28 mordek wrote:
We're looking for scum, where was the confusion?
The difference between looking for 3 and 4 scum is a huge thing. I try to draw connections between players, and so the number matters.
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I think one of Wave, Tolkien, and Soniv are likely to be scum. .
Wave:
I'm fairly sure I've made it known that I dislike his play style this game, and that it actually seems to hurt town sometimes. I have a strong suspicion about him that I cannot shake off despite how helpful he is being at times. Despite that, his line of thought and line of questioning actually lines up fairly well with mine. I can get behind questioning/pressuring Soniv and Asmo more. Again, I cannot shake off the strong suspicions so he is still here.
Tolkien:
I think he is not always forthcoming with his reasoning or reads, and just wants to stir stuff up. That might help him, but it doesn't help the rest of us. Of the three, I had him in scum list first, but have actually gone up and down with him. I think the biggest reason he is not scum is his carefree attitude. It's frustrating for me, but I think he just doesn't care too much if you can't follow him. Similar to Wave, he employs an attitude of "If you can't see why I'm right, then you are wrong, and I don't care for it". I feel like scum would be a lot less carefree? As in, I imagine it is really difficult to play like he is as a scummy role. Of course, I could easily be wrong because people are really versatile.
Lastly, Soniv:
I think of the three, he's actually hard to read. He went from being very active the first 24hours or so, to being fairly quiet from then on. It looked like he was lurking a bit, and his posts weren't so great despite Wave trying to pressure him to post. I think it's reasonable to be wary of Wave, but there was a huge shut down between soniv and Wave somewhere. I think soniv can be looked into as well.
(To respond to Wave's post above: I don't think I am protecting him, but he was one of the very few people who saw what I was seeing in regards to Wave. I felt like this was him trying to pocket me. I guess it worked because for some reason Wave thinks I have defended soniv/ "have his back" which I don't think is true at all. In fact, I quick voted Soniv exactly for trying to pocket me(I didn't explain this at the time because I felt it would tell Soniv too much).)
If you disagree with the above list, I do have some slightly less priority scum for you(which is to say, I don't think the more experienced players will die day 2 or be lynchable):
Req:
His 180 turn from day 1 to night 1 is confusing to me. I do think most of his write up posts from this night stage aren't that great. I think his Day 1 play where he pretended to be newbie is dangerous. The problem to me was the blue hunting newb play. To me that's a huge red flag no matter who does it. I will not forget it. I just don't understand the motivation for this especially when he seems so confident now in night 1.
I also disagree with a lot of his reads. They make me feel like Req isn't genuine in his write ups. I don't see at all how Alaric fits a scummy profile, and I don't see Alaric making moves to push votes on people. Alaric gives his own reads and sticks to them. Honestly, I'm also unsure why he feels I am not town. I think I've been really straightforward at how I'm playing this game, and for him to try to seriously say I might be scummy is kinda backwards. On the other hand, he somehow sees Asmo leaning towards town? I don't get that.
I added a lot more to this after seeing the newest posts. He seems to be defending Soniv, which to me is an association I dislike. Since I feel very strongly that one of the above three are scummy, and now Req defends one of them despite pretty good information from Wave. I think it's another minus for Req. I think the earlier "reads" were to try to get us to open up to him, so his defense of his partners looks cleaner, but it still looks dirty to me. Similar to Soniv, I think he jumped on the Wave bandwagon because of other reasons than actually believing it.
Asmo:
owb pointed out a good point here. The after lynch post was fairly over dramatic. I think most people in the game would have reacted with more like "yea, that really wasn't unexpected." Getting a day 1 scum lynch is really difficult, and I don't see any reason to over react. Mostly, I feel like the post was there just to be posted. He hasn't really spoken up too much yet.
Comadose:
Still hasn't done anything. I dislike his play so far as it is just afkmode or lurking. He doesn't give reads despite saying he will. Compare this to owb who gave town small new information that people hadn't pointed out yet. I feel much better with owb than coma even though both have had similar thread interactions. I have a feeling Coma will keep lurking because people aren't making enough of an issue about it. So again, I will ping out coma here.
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On October 14 2014 06:21 Alaric wrote:
Also a point I forgot to mention when thinking about assertiveness, throwing votes around, and most notably the fact that Soniv accuses way all but in words: can we ##Vote during the Night or is that reserved for Day periods?
There's no voting at night:
On October 13 2014 09:01 Dandel Ion wrote:
It is now Night 1. You have 24 hours to submit any nightactions you might have by PMing them to me. Y'all may talk normally in the thread during night, but there's no voting or stuff.
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On October 14 2014 06:33 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Now, if there was one person who could reveal wave (and myself's) alignment through a lynch, who would you press?
Are you asking who I would lynch between the two of you?
I'd lynch one, and shoot the other.
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I guess you were asking for what Alzadar mentioned though
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EPT
