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And me.
Are you disregarding that?
On October 14 2014 01:20 Requizen wrote:To that end I'm going to go through filters and post my thoughts given the results of last night. I will skim through somewhat quickly, as the thread is fairly large, so link me to anything I may miss about a person. They will come as the day progresses. At the moment, my two biggest Scum reads are still Wave and LordyT. Partially left over from last night, partially because my reasoning still feels good to me. Wave because what I posted above, LordT for the reasons I discussed yesterday. Additionally: -his early "role call" was highly suspicious -His list of players is highly iffy. Knowing that MoonBear was VT and (myself) knowing I am not scum, he noted us as scummy. Knowing that he and Wave are on my watchlist, he noted them as townish. And he calls Alzadar scum for "not paying attention to him", which is very much attention drawing. -His vote changed plenty enough for me to be suspicious. I understand using votes as pressure, but he jumped to many people I don't find suspicious/think may very well be town, and he helped push the MoonBear train pretty hard. These two are my top picks atm. Please respond with criticism/discussion, or if you are the accused respond with your rebuttal.
On October 14 2014 00:54 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 00:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
But here's the thing wave. You took a lead in town position just because your first post was a "follow me to victory" post. You've been very aggressive yes, but you've also been pretty defensive in the face of any criticism. You were incredibly indecisive for the rest of the day, keeping your vote unplaced for longer time than I'd expect after you criticized me early game for not placing my vote. On top of that, you wanted to enact some last minute "shenannies". A scum wave would absolutely know how to manipulate a newbie town, so excuse the town for not trusting your "judgement" thus far. This is largely how I'm feeling. Wave, your actions are suspicious. You're quick to jump on other people's posting because they don't line up with what you like, yet when people do the same to you, your defense and martyr shield comes up very quickly*. You also have used posts claimed to be "noob moves", such as claiming VT as your first D1 post and causing arguments instead of converstaion. These actions make you scummy. You're quick to accuse people of starting chaos when you, yourself, have been causing a clamor. Rather than helping the town progress naturally, you are either: a) Town and trying to force the Town to play your way or b) Scum and doing Scum things Both are bad, one is grounds for lynching. And, if you are Town, then all you're doing is drawing death N1. + Show Spoiler +*But, knowing your personality, you're not the type to take criticism easily, much like myself. Even if you don't want to admit it, this may be just your natural reaction.
On October 14 2014 00:56 Requizen wrote:
That said, I think my focus has been too largely on Wave lately. This in and of itself makes me think Scum, using himself as a distraction for other Scum.
Time to go into filters and weed out my town.
There has also been a fair amount of discussion on both me and Tolkien stemming from Req's posts, so you're not reading the thread.
Good to know.
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Seriously, anybody who hasn't really started looking in depth into Soniv needs to start.
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Oh wow I completely missed the series of posts where coma came back and Tolkien said soniv is cleared.
Yeah coma your first post upon coming back is kinda meh. Gonna need to see a lot more from to come.
Tolkien, tell me you weren't serious about soniv being cleared.
plz.
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On October 14 2014 03:57 Requizen wrote:
Alzadar's filter is odd. Lots of fluff posts early, then some decent ideas, but something seems off about him. Can't put my finger on it.
I'll look into Soniv next, Wave. I can say my focus hasn't been on him much.
This alone should be suspicious. Scum are playing well when they draw no focus.
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On October 14 2014 03:58 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 03:55 ComaDose wrote:On October 14 2014 02:18 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Also Coma. Pls. Soniv is cleared for his push onto MB. can you tell me what i miss as to why? is it because he just stuck with his original gut feeling? you were on again off again on the moonbear train too. and it seems like for the most part you and soniv only have good things to say about each other. i.e. soniv desregarding scummy reads on you and you saying he is clear now. Can you explain more? Soniv pushed the MB train hard. Scum usually don't want the attention early for pushing a town mislynch D1. Much better to look at the people following the train and sheeping.
That's not true in the slightest. Scum are happy to secure a mislynch since it's often very difficult to specifically pin it on any one person. Hell I don't think Soniv can take credit for MB going down on his own at all, simply the standing out factor is that he stood his ground. You can even look at that either way saying 'oh well he must be town because he stood his ground even in the face of a mislynch and the potential for him looking bad---no scum would want that' 'or 'he must be scum because the lynch was showing the potential of being carried elsewhere by wave/people who switched to Jeff (Note to self: Have another good look at the Jeff wagon) so he stood his ground to keep it there.'
Both options are equally likely to me--people have been calling me scum for trying to head lynches on people---do I look like I'm afraid to take any heat?
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On October 14 2014 03:59 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Or better yet, at the people wasting their votes D1 and not consolidating on the two wagons.
HINT HINT
Too late, already brought that up.
Req has explained his rationale, and everyone already knows mine. I mean clearly I was trying to hide my vote by blatantly switching and asking everyone else to switch with me
/scumtactix
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On October 14 2014 04:01 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 03:48 WaveofShadow wrote:And me. Are you disregarding that? On October 14 2014 01:20 Requizen wrote:To that end I'm going to go through filters and post my thoughts given the results of last night. I will skim through somewhat quickly, as the thread is fairly large, so link me to anything I may miss about a person. They will come as the day progresses. At the moment, my two biggest Scum reads are still Wave and LordyT. Partially left over from last night, partially because my reasoning still feels good to me. Wave because what I posted above, LordT for the reasons I discussed yesterday. Additionally: -his early "role call" was highly suspicious -His list of players is highly iffy. Knowing that MoonBear was VT and (myself) knowing I am not scum, he noted us as scummy. Knowing that he and Wave are on my watchlist, he noted them as townish. And he calls Alzadar scum for "not paying attention to him", which is very much attention drawing. -His vote changed plenty enough for me to be suspicious. I understand using votes as pressure, but he jumped to many people I don't find suspicious/think may very well be town, and he helped push the MoonBear train pretty hard. These two are my top picks atm. Please respond with criticism/discussion, or if you are the accused respond with your rebuttal. On October 14 2014 00:54 Requizen wrote:On October 14 2014 00:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
But here's the thing wave. You took a lead in town position just because your first post was a "follow me to victory" post. You've been very aggressive yes, but you've also been pretty defensive in the face of any criticism. You were incredibly indecisive for the rest of the day, keeping your vote unplaced for longer time than I'd expect after you criticized me early game for not placing my vote. On top of that, you wanted to enact some last minute "shenannies". A scum wave would absolutely know how to manipulate a newbie town, so excuse the town for not trusting your "judgement" thus far. This is largely how I'm feeling. Wave, your actions are suspicious. You're quick to jump on other people's posting because they don't line up with what you like, yet when people do the same to you, your defense and martyr shield comes up very quickly*. You also have used posts claimed to be "noob moves", such as claiming VT as your first D1 post and causing arguments instead of converstaion. These actions make you scummy. You're quick to accuse people of starting chaos when you, yourself, have been causing a clamor. Rather than helping the town progress naturally, you are either: a) Town and trying to force the Town to play your way or b) Scum and doing Scum things Both are bad, one is grounds for lynching. And, if you are Town, then all you're doing is drawing death N1. + Show Spoiler +*But, knowing your personality, you're not the type to take criticism easily, much like myself. Even if you don't want to admit it, this may be just your natural reaction.
On October 14 2014 00:56 Requizen wrote:
That said, I think my focus has been too largely on Wave lately. This in and of itself makes me think Scum, using himself as a distraction for other Scum.
Time to go into filters and weed out my town. There has also been a fair amount of discussion on both me and Tolkien stemming from Req's posts, so you're not reading the thread. Good to know. I disregarded it because I didn't and don't think LT is scum. I did a quick skim of his filter summation posts tonight and he hasn't done one for LT, so it had slipped my mind.As for his suspicions of you, he said he thinks he's placed too much focus on you, and I already said I'm tabling my concerns of you as well for now. Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 03:57 Requizen wrote:
Alzadar's filter is odd. Lots of fluff posts early, then some decent ideas, but something seems off about him. Can't put my finger on it.
The thing that's setting me off about him is that ever since we chastised his early posts, he seems to be saying things that he thinks the town wants to hear, rather than what he's actually thinking? Idk, hard to put it in words. I'll really dig into it more in a few hours.
LOL
NO YOU DIDN'T
On October 14 2014 03:42 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 03:19 Requizen wrote:On October 14 2014 03:14 WaveofShadow wrote:
MORDEK SCUMSLIP
YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST
Also Req I'm going to go ahead and say while it's nice that you're getting your reads out, it isn't strictly helpful to town to be vomiting everything all at once. Should be focusing specifically on who is scum and why as that is our job---if someone you think is town gets attacked then you can describe why you disagree and whatnot to prevent mislynching. Focus is key.
Just my two cents. As I said before, I'd rather have all cards on the table from everyone. If someone gets shot/poisoned tonight and their correct read goes unposted, then that hurts the town. For example, I said that I think mordek is town. If I die tonight, but am right that he's not scum, I hope that my posts can help narrow down who is. You're correct in that the converse is more focused and just as important - if someone dies, that means their scumreads may be accurate and will cause an investigation. But the opposite is just as important. That said, scum can also just choose to kill someone who thinks that they are town, to draw suspicion away. That's why giving reasoning why you don't think someone is scum is just as important - so someone who disagrees with you can still investigate. Vomiting all your reads, especially as you are doing, really isn't helpful though. Sure, it's important to know where peoples' reads lie. But something like what you're doing would be more important for someone who had concern of being shot tonight, and had some really important read/case to get out there before he thinks he's going to die. I'm glad you're putting time in to formulate reads, but I wish it had a bit more direction. I'd love to know your #1 scum read. You've given several reads so far, but most of them are pretty null. The only one you're really leaning scum on is Alaric, which is someone who's fairly widely considered townie.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I PRESENT TO YOU, A SQUIRMING SCUM CAUGHT IN A LIE
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You didn't disregard, you didn't read. Req has been blasting me as scum since forever and you SPECIFICALLY stated you 'don't know' who his reads are, and now you are trying to backtrack.
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On October 14 2014 04:06 Lord Tolkien wrote:
I'll say this. If you believe Ghandi is scum, look at the MB wagon. If you think keff is just bambi, look at the non-votes.
I'll say this: your posting today has been rl shit tier.
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Of course they're all meh. I can't say I care much about what they say, but the fact that he's doing them means he's likely to be town (obviously scum can feign activity like this pretty easily but I dunno. Req.)
The point I'm trying to make is, he gave reads before those reads. There was a lot of talk before he started doing those. You very specifically said you don't know who his scumreads are and wanted him to state them. That is a very obvious and glaring omission. But then again, I don't need to convince you, do I?
Why does nobody else want to talk about soniv? Is this just pushback because of the way my in-game personality doesn't seem to fit in this particular game? Because I'm not sure how to make people consider my posts any other way.
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Req he's not going about it in a particularly useful way but the fact remains he is technically right. Either way if you're annoyed by him, stop responding. Look into soniv for me and all of the stuff I've said about him.
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I'm pretty content to continue yelling against the wall for a little while.
Reading through his filter you really get a sense of him trying to avoid taking stances all over the place and letting others do his work for him.
On October 11 2014 10:00 jcarlsoniv wrote:
sic 'em wave
I'm curious who's around tonight
Obviously the boave is likely a joke, related to my trolly early vote of Jeff but then look below:
On October 11 2014 11:00 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 10:56 ketchup wrote:On October 11 2014 10:52 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 11 2014 10:50 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 11 2014 10:45 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 11 2014 10:39 ketchup wrote:On October 11 2014 10:28 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 11 2014 10:23 ketchup wrote:
I honestly would have been less suspicious of Wave if all his post said was to vote ghandi because he is young as shit. Instead he had to color code everything! The color coding is way too strong for me. Wave please QQQQ What about the colour coding makes me suspicious, o delicious condiment? It's too try hard sir! I didn't expect that from you, nor do I think it was completely innocent in it's intention. QQThe Alzadar posts so far are actually the most suspicious because it doesn't really help townies at all while pretending to give out information. The games played especially means nothing despite the effort put in to make it seem that way. Elaborate on this, please. You seem to think that 'trying' is inherently scummy and I'm not following. As for your expectations and my intentions, how would you have any idea of either when you haven't played with me before? This is boring so far. I'm bored. Why aren't people voting for scum? And what scum are these? Jeff? It's going to take more than a sweeping declarative first post saying "vote jeff" to make me want to vote anyone right now. It shouldn't. Sonib what make you of the yung ketchup and his seeming absolute refusal to take any real stance whatsoever? What makes you think I have no real stance? I am just testing the waters, and seeing who responds in what way. I find that much more interesting than pretending that color coding anything helps anyone in game  ^ this basically would have been my response to wave Idk about you wave, but back in my day, we didn't just know who scum were right off the bat. We had to work at it, poke around, dig through trash to figure it out. In all seriousness though, I'm with ketchup on Alzadar's posting. Going so far as to let a league game decide his side? Jeff - why is Wave scum?
Wave - why is Jeff scum?ketchup - do you think Wave's color coding is actually scummy? Or are you just calling it distracting to nitpick?
Scumtactics 101, start shit, don't get hit. A whole bunch of questions, NONE of them actually go anywhere in terms of trying to get information for himself.
Let's play 'count the number of times soniv doesn't take a stance on me:
On October 11 2014 11:31 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 11:12 ketchup wrote:On October 11 2014 11:00 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 11 2014 10:56 ketchup wrote:On October 11 2014 10:52 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 11 2014 10:50 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 11 2014 10:45 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 11 2014 10:39 ketchup wrote:On October 11 2014 10:28 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 11 2014 10:23 ketchup wrote:
I honestly would have been less suspicious of Wave if all his post said was to vote ghandi because he is young as shit. Instead he had to color code everything! The color coding is way too strong for me. Wave please QQQQ What about the colour coding makes me suspicious, o delicious condiment? It's too try hard sir! I didn't expect that from you, nor do I think it was completely innocent in it's intention. QQThe Alzadar posts so far are actually the most suspicious because it doesn't really help townies at all while pretending to give out information. The games played especially means nothing despite the effort put in to make it seem that way. Elaborate on this, please. You seem to think that 'trying' is inherently scummy and I'm not following. As for your expectations and my intentions, how would you have any idea of either when you haven't played with me before? This is boring so far. I'm bored. Why aren't people voting for scum? And what scum are these? Jeff? It's going to take more than a sweeping declarative first post saying "vote jeff" to make me want to vote anyone right now. It shouldn't. Sonib what make you of the yung ketchup and his seeming absolute refusal to take any real stance whatsoever? What makes you think I have no real stance? I am just testing the waters, and seeing who responds in what way. I find that much more interesting than pretending that color coding anything helps anyone in game ^ this basically would have been my response to wave Idk about you wave, but back in my day, we didn't just know who scum were right off the bat. We had to work at it, poke around, dig through trash to figure it out. In all seriousness though, I'm with ketchup on Alzadar's posting. Going so far as to let a league game decide his side? Jeff - why is Wave scum? Wave - why is Jeff scum? ketchup - do you think Wave's color coding is actually scummy? Or are you just calling it distracting to nitpick? I don't think it's nitpicking. I think it was not something I imagined Wave doing as the first post after game started so I naturally am cautious around it. I admit I have not played with Wave, but I feel that post is 100% questionable, and should be pointed out. This is especially compounded by the fact that it was also a really quick vote on someone. So, I called him out on it. Don't let the fact that he did something unexpected color your judgement - posting in a mafia game is completely different. Let what he says color your opinion. @Cixah - trying to decide if wave is just being aggressive townie or taking advantage of the lesser experienced crowd to make a bold play. I'm feeling the former is probably correct - he can be a bloodhound when he wants to.
On October 11 2014 23:03 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 22:20 WaveofShadow wrote:
I have to read the second half of your post but Alaric you are now officially my number one town read. ^ Alaric, I love your skepticism, don't lose it. Keep in mind, even if Jeff does flip red (assuming he ends up being the lynch target), that does not at all prove Wave's towniness on its own merit - bussing a teammate is a common strategy, and a scum Wave would know how to do it.
Wave's claiming protection was probably the sketchiest thing he's done thus far, but it's at least got viability behind it - if he comes out the gates as a super aggressive townie, pinpoints a scum and goes right for him, you bet your ass Wave will be a top priority scum target.That said, Wave, we are still waiting for you to tell us why Jeff is scum. His posting is standard Jeff, which is unfortunate. I hope he starts taking the game seriously. ____________________ @Cixah: Swaglord is on your scummy list - ok, I agree. He has had bullshit, contentless posts thus far. But so has Jeff. There's not a whole lot to go on either of them, but Jeff is relatively fine in your eyes? Wave being your top read for the one reason you've given is honestly a bit silly. Also - We will not know KP for sure until end of N1, and even then, all we'll know is how many people died. It won't tell us whether they're scum KP, town KP, etc. So we can get a rough idea once there's evidence, but speculating about numbers now, especially this early, isn't that useful. That's all the "hard" thinking I can do until I get some coffee in me.
Just a little sidenote here.
This post comes almost directly after he says Alzadar is his top scumread:
On October 12 2014 00:46 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 00:39 Alzadar wrote:On October 11 2014 21:52 Cixah wrote:
Question for Alzadar: How Town is Wave for you?
Wave is 70% Town. At this point he's really driving the discussion, I don't think he would such a central role if he was scum. I'd like to mention that MoonBear and ComaDose have made only the same kind of "observation with no conclusion" style posts that you all seem suspicious of me for. Which leads me to say - I feel like there must be some scum among those who are suspicious of me: after Wave and Soniv declared their suspicion I became an easy target for people to say "oh I'm suspicious of Alz" without actually contributing anything new. ketchup in particular has focused entirely on Wave and myself (both of us already being under suspicion when he did), and has basically only repeated arguments other people had already said. Ok, so who among your accusers (there really only have been a few) do you believe to be scum? Ketchup was actually fairly early on in the Alzadar and Wave suspicions. Do you think ketchup is scum? If not, who?
Does this look like he's truly trying to learn about Alz's alignment?
Also pretty damning is HE COMPLETELY DROPS ALZADAR FOR THE REAMINDER OF HIS FILTER.
Where did that suspicion on him go exactly?
Like...do I even need to keep going?
Soniv says what he needs to at the time to appease people. Look at his early responses to my grilling him---tosses out a scumread that means absolutely nothing and then drops it. Questions people without any direction whatsoever. I've already spoken about what I think of his vote/push on MB. He didn't even do the majority of the work on it, he just sat on it.
Soniv is absolute primary lynch tomorrow.
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On October 14 2014 04:54 Requizen wrote:
Decent reasoning. I could get behind a Soniv investigation, even if my scum klaxons aren't blaring around him.
Also worth noting: ketchup. Again, largely ignored, no large stances taken. Many, many posts of "Why do you think x is scum" "who are your scumreads". Possibly starting fights, possibly starting conversation, but his volume of posting with little commitment is offputting.
Soniv and ketchup have had each others' backs throughout. It's difficult because as much as I want to try and draw association there, it only leads to WIFOM. I'm more likely to believe ketchup is town because of how he went about attacking me. His stances are much more aggressive than soniv's to be sure. Let me look a little closer but from what I remember ketchup's questions actually GO somewhere.
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On October 12 2014 04:42 ketchup wrote:
The Cixah bandwagon is too real. Especially when coming from Alzadar and GhandiEagle. Wave is looking more and more townie just because people want to parrot previous arguments against him for badly thought out logic.
Moonbear's post was fairly terror. I hoped he would provide more. So moonbear, who are your top scum now that you know this game isn't rigged? There's no way only one person is scum to you right now right?
Requizen, I'll keep asking until you answer. Who are scum and who are town for you?
Yeah like look here. Gives Jeff and Alz as earlier scumreads just before, sticks with them. Keeps on top of you. Keeps on top of me. Constantly re-evaluating (at this point, anyway. Was really annoyed at his bias towards me later on but that doesn't make him scum).
Ketchup pretty town imo.
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Yeah so I just realized a quarter of the posts in this thread belong to me. At the risk of not much discussion occurring in my absence, I'm done until after deadline. You guys can keep it up. I bereave.
In case I die, scumreads are
Soniv
Asmo
Look into Coma/Alz/Jeff
Null on owb but leaning town. Also on LT---LT SHOULD be town but lord has his posting been shit today.
mordek/ketchup/Req/Cixah/Alaric
Don't let anyone fall off the radar.
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Hey cool, Wave is right about a whole bunch of stuff.
##vote: GhandiEAGLE
Get out my game jeff.
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'Cause in the time I wasn't posting I realized how much we've let Jeff get away with this game.
Last minute deadline posts just to save his own ass from being on the block, blatant taunting without adding anything positive to town atmosphere 95% of the time he IS around.
It certainly helps that that was where LT was looking. He also said alternatively to look at the solo voters but those being me and Req, I don't need to do that.
The issue I have is I need to look really closely at the timing of the Jeff/MB wagons. I remember there being a lot of pushback at the time and LT agreeing with me but I wonder if people started dropping off Jeff before that came to be exactly...? I remember saying it was too quiet and mafia were content so I figured it was town/town wagons but I could have been very wrong on Jeff since that was essentially the only reason I had to unvote him.
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Also I guess we don't have a vig which saddens me. Would have preferred not to waste a day on Jeffina. I can hope we have a poisoner but really no way of knowing until like 8 people die tomorrow night which is inevitable.
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My voting you has nothing to do with the night kill, it's just a bonus really.
And to be honest? You don't come off as much of anything. Not gonna argue and shit things up. Other people can comment as they please.
I wonder if they killed Tolkien because he was next strongest townie that wasn't on 6ah's 'protect list.' 6ah if you successfully managed to WIFOM the scum into avoiding all of us that's pretty hilarious, because otherwise I would have bet that Alaric would have been the kill tonight.
Kk gonna read lynchies yesterday. Lynchies are kinda like blushies except less nonexistent.
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On October 14 2014 09:20 Alzadar wrote:
Well not necessarily right? You're discounting Medic and Jailkeeper who might have prevented a Townie's kill (safe bet that Tolkien was scum kill). It's too dangerous still for blues to out themselves but you shouldn't assume we've got no Vig.
I doubt our vig (assuming he exists) is stupid enough to shoot into a townie who should have been protected. No vig.
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EPT
