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[W] Newbie LVIII - Disney Princess Mafia - Page 5

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 28 2014 01:07 GMT
#433
Superbia, you should have listened to me. I tried so so soooo hard to make you see it from my viewpoint but you were so adamant!
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 28 2014 01:08 GMT
#434
Everyone who were ok with this lynch needs to look back at everything that happened and figure things out. Re-evaluate the game. Take everything into consideration now that you KNOW that he was town.
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 28 2014 01:14 GMT
#437
I'm going to take a short break from this, I was pulling my hair off and busting my ass off trying to save gobble from being mislynched. I'll probably do something else for an hour or two, look back here and then go bed.
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 28 2014 02:29 GMT
#440
Daydreamarine,
Your roleplaying is hilarious and I don't mind you doing it, but there are certain things you need to understand.

You HAVE to vote. Everyone must vote before the end of the day.
You need to figure out the 2 people you think are the wicked ones. If they outlive the rest of us this game is over and we have lost. It's basically a communicative puzzle.
Don't expect many people liking your roleplay, because it's so out of the ordinary, it could make them feel as if you are not focusing on the game and could potentially get you mislynched. So if you intend on keeping on with the roleplaying, don't forget to actually analyze the game in ways that even us non-roleplayers can understand. That way we can read you where you are coming from and get a better knowledge of wether or not you are one of the wicked ones.
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 28 2014 14:31 GMT
#466
I am not going to do much during the nightphase. Mafia doesn't need more reasons to shoot me and I will instead spend most of the nightphase sorting out my reads privately, doing some votecounting and what not.

All I want to say is that the only one that is confirmed town is the guy that died. Noone else is confirmed.
To me, it's me and a dead guy. To you it should be you and a dead guy.
Yes, people have been doing towny things but that should not make them confirmed, me included.
I went hard on defense of Gobble because I have experience of similar behaviour in people playing videomafia. There was no logical reason for him to flip as mafia in that particular moment unless so and so had happened.
That along with the fact that everyone was willing to vote him off because of BM just felt like everyone dropped their initial thought of scumhunting and instead went for someone, like I pointed out they said, they feel is town but vote on anyways.

We all need to go back, filter through all the bogus of day1 and try to sort our reads out.
We have new information that gobble is confirmed town. Who did he align himself with, who went hard against him, who did he read as scum and why. All these things are something we need to take into consideration, and then we also need to look at the voting patterns. Who voted and when, who decided to go at him after he used profanity etc.

Do some leg work people, I know I will.
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 28 2014 19:34 GMT
#478
Daydreamarine, my prince. How are thee feeling now after your rest? I hope your wound have healed properly.
The fair maidens of the town are wondering what thy name is. Would you be so kind as to indulge us?
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 28 2014 20:08 GMT
#480
Barakos, you mention that if MihZaa flips red you think I could possibly be his scum partner.
Try to see it from the other end. What if I were to flip scum, who'd be my partner then? Do you still reach the same conclusion that it would be MihZaaaa?
That said, how likely do you feel it is that I flip scum after I've been vomiting town all over this entire game?
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 28 2014 20:38 GMT
#483
Ok, let's go through the voting, shall we.

On August 28 2014 10:00 Amiko wrote:
Day 1 - Final Vote Count


Breshke (2): Superbia, JennyHell, gobbledydook
Abuse (0): Superbia, gobbledydook
Superbia (1): Meatpudding, JennyHell, gobbledydook
gobbledydook (4): Abuse, MihZaaa, Barakos, Superbia, Breshke, lilwade
MihZaaa (2): lilwade, lilwade, Breshke

Not voting (1): Daydreamarine


This is how it ended, as we all could see.

Gobble had 3 votes for him, then Superbia votes for him and he completely loses it. He starts flinging poo, basically.
My initial thought was, if he flips mafia after this lynch then Superbia is likely to be his mafia teammate, bussing him hard and therefore he's angry.

My secondary thought was that he's probably frustrated and annoyed with being read wrong and taking it to a personal level. While it is totally not ok to act like he did there, I wanted to make sure he at least tried in his last few dying breaths.

I saw something there that made me feel he is town, and when I went through his posts earlier tonight I felt so dumb for not seeing his previous town tells. I will point them out in another post, this one is about the voting.

So, I began defending him. People were voting on him even though they said he felt town. I pointed you out because you all felt that it was ok to drop the scumhunting, to drop everything this game is about just because someone went douche-mode.

Gobble changed his vote to Breshke, maybe because I was defending him so he was reading me town and therefore understood the flaws I saw in Breshke. That's just speculation though.

I manage to talk sense into some of you, so lilwade swaps back to MihZaa where he previously was and Breshke joins on. I mean, I didn't expect him to go anywhere else because he can't really go for himself. Why he decided to swap off I hope come from a town perspective but to be honest I feel it's a very neutral perspective. Either way he was not in any danger of being the lynch, here's why:

The change came ~20 minutes before the end of the day and for him to be the new lynch it would have required a super adamant hard-headed Superbia to move off Gobble and onto Breshke, to make a 3-3 and then for either lilwade to flip onto Breshke or Daydreamarine to perform a miracle that is called voting.

The rest hadn't shown enough presence to even be a threat of changing their votes.

I think it's safe to say that end of day 1 was chaotic, and confusing. We didn't have 2 wagons like I explicitly tried to get going and then it turned in to a mess because someone overreacted. However, his overreaction made me see him as town and I'm just sad I didn't manage to save him.
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 28 2014 21:09 GMT
#486
Ok, so rereading Gobble's posts now that he's confirmed I have a few things to point out.

1. His intro.
On August 26 2014 13:04 gobbledydook wrote:
I am Aurora, the Sleeping Beauty. I may or may not be a blue role. I will do all I can to root out all evil and wickedness in this realm.
God save the princesses.

He's trying to take a role bullet. Which is a good thing to do as VT.

He went on to say that abuse is scum for how he doesn't have a scum read when it's been 24 hours in to day 1 and follows it up with a vote.
The next post explains that he things Meatpudding is abuse's partner and is attempting to make him look better. And the logic sort of made sense at that moment.

On August 27 2014 13:35 gobbledydook wrote:
meatpudding is abuse's scumbuddy

Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 08:24 meatpudding wrote:

...

abuse

Your first post seemed a bit suspicious to me. I'm not sure why you felt the need to be so direct. I hope you can bring some more insight into what you have learned so far.

On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:
@ Suburbia,

...

I also completely disagree on your rating.
Seems a little weird that you give minuses for some points (seriously? -0.5 because you think that warning you that I am vocal in my games and will push people who i find scummy - to be a preface for possibly scummy play), yet you comment on much of Jenny's stuff, along with "scummy reference, careful now!" but still give her no minuses.
Sounds like blind agreement to someone who is the most vocal at the moment, while at the moment Jenny really has not done anything yet that would classify as real town. Only neutral.

...

Though there are no real reads possible at the moment, I feel a townie vibe from the exact opposite people you do.
I feel that Barakos and Mihzaaa give townie vibes, because they give thought out posts and pose questions in a non attacking manner, unlike you. Jenny seems neutral, since most of the stuff she says is positive(read: happy'ish) yet does not really show anything much about her alignment at the moment. Though I will agree that she does not give any scum vibes yet.


I'm agreeing with your thoughts here. Best analysis so far and enough to put you in my town circe for now. There are too many unanswered questions, mainly what did you get from your opening and how are your reads shaping up.



...

This just feels made up. Notice how it flows: 'Hmmm your first post was shit, so can I dig something out that can make you look good? here's your longest post, I'll just say it's good without explaining why it's good'

It looks like an attempt to give abuse towncred, a ploy that I ain't buying.

EBWOP fixed quotes


I agree with him that at that point it seemed a bit odd and still does. Saying he's suspicious and hoping he can bring more insight and in the same post be all like "oh, found something!"

Another thing I'd like to comment about.. Why wouldn't you want to be direct? There's no need to beat around the bush and conceal things. Just be up front. Here's how I feel and this is why. And here's my followup Q for you. Nice and simple, so everyone can get it.

Gobble then did something towny. He listened to what you guys had said and went back on his reads. He wasn't worried it would make him look scummy he wasn't acting strange. He was genuinely changing his mind on the two and unvoted.

Now that abuse has posted his list of reads I think he's town. I think he has put a massive effort into solving this game. The only thing I don't like is he omguses me, but that's fine I can live with that.

##Unvote

A reread of meatpudding's analysis and follow-up to my post seems to indicate he is town.


It's not scummy to change reads. It shows you are reconsidering the game and you're trying to solve this and figure out who the wicked ones truly are.

He reminded people that voting is mandatory. Something any alignment could easily do, so that's a neutral thing to do.

But then he comes out with this:
I think you will find your scumhunting approach incorrect. Usually the assholes get lynched and flip town. It's because mafia have nothing to gain by insulting everyone. The mafia's greatest hope is that everyone forgets about them.

Which to me just hit home. That's exactly how most mafia players are in video mafia as well. They try really hard to get in to a town circle. Once they are actually there, they just sit back and enjoy the ride while town tears itself apart. That said though, it's not an excuse for his behaviour which was completely unacceptable.

Then BAM!
On August 28 2014 07:06 gobbledydook wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 05:00 lilwade wrote:
With classes starting getting anywhere is a huge pain but,
Here is my perspective from the last 12 hours.

1) Jenny you have started strong again but apart from last game you have come off way stronger this time around, maybe overcompensating to try to appear like you start every game the same, I am not sure. you are probably on my bang list for now, you know how I hate to commit to marry. What are your thoughts on MihZaaa?

2) Superbia despite your post that was longer than my last college paper I feel you are doing your best to seek out scum and test the waters and I think no mafia would have gone to lengths to provide what you did albeit in a poorly formatted manner. For the most part I think your genuine, but I still have my doubts on the quality of your reads.

3) Barakos I think you started of pretty strong but have moved down a little bit with some filler posts. Who do you think we should persue? Did you actually read superbia's post? do you think it could have been scum motivated? What in it makes you think it is an abomination or were you merely calling it that because of how long it was? What are your thoughts on abuse?

4) MihZaaa I agree the time zone difference is a bit of a pain but i will try to post between classes and all through out the night and morning to make it easier for you and any others who arent in the US. What are you thought on jenny and superbia because those are my strongest reads atm. Do you think jenny is overcompensating? I just refreshed and saw your post, I agree for the most part that superbia's long post was filled with nonsense but do you think it is town motivated?

5) abuse I think that every mafia game we have atleast 1 person (you), to start of the game with classic reaction questions and I like it tbh, Myself you can call me Town Hero for I will seek out scum so none of our beautiful princesses have to die. I was hoping to get a character that I could add a lot of flavor with but I was unfamiliar with how to go about it.

As for my thoughts on you I think you are spending a little to much time defending rather than advancing and I do not like that. What can you bring to the table that will get the game on the right track aside from your first post.

Anyone I didnt mention was not worth mentioning and you need to be worried about that because I will be waiting to hear from you.


A cursory reread makes me feel the absence of lilwade. Look at this post. It feels...noncommittal doesn't it. So the problem with being noncommittal is that scum generally want to leave their options open so they can't be held responsible.

He follows up with a disapproval on my manner of entering the thread which is partly based on a misread. He disappears afterwards:

I would lynch lilwade but I think superbia is better.


Again hitting the analogy right on the head. How did we not see this as a town read? Even if we don't necessarily agree that lilwade is scum scum, I think we all have some worries about him. Where do they stem from? Maybe this that gobble pointed out to us.

Following on to his response to my comment that he's starting to seem desperate which made me think he was more scummy and was probably going to start grasping at straws in a few moments.
On August 28 2014 07:34 gobbledydook wrote:
You'd be desperate too if you were about to be mislynched. Everyone has a different reaction when put on the noose. Desperation, or the lack of it, is simply not alignment indicative. Can't count how many times the 'desperate person' flipped town and then I was like welp dun goofed.

He's again 100% correct. An emotional response is of neutral alignment. You can't read someone from it unless you know the person/have played with them before and therefore have a feel for how they usually respond.

Then came his BM that I will not recap, because I think we've all read it 4-5 times already.

All in all, he said towny things even if we didn't agree on his reads. And I feel stooooooooopid for not seeing those to begin with. Everything just gets more clear when you know he's confirmed.
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 28 2014 21:14 GMT
#487
Barakos, the reason I asked was because you were willing to make analogies based on whether MihZaa flipped scum, so I wanted to see if you felt like you'd come to the same conclusion if you swapped it around, because I wouldn't have.
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 28 2014 21:20 GMT
#488
Moving on, what I'd like for us to do is this:

1. Be up front about your reads. It's ok to change your mind, it's not scummy. It shows you are willing to re-evaluate as more information comes up.

2. Don't leave anyone out. If you are unsure, say you are unsure and why.

3. Please please please!!! Do not say "I think he may be town but he's scummy" Pick one or at least which way they are leaning. Because it's hella confusing. I get one can be unsure of reads. I have many of those I am not a 100% on, but at some point you will have to start trusting yourself and your reads and instead allow them to change your mind according to what I said in point 1.
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 28 2014 21:37 GMT
#490
If I die tonight, then look in to these people:

Breshke, I went hard at him and he was my final vote. He's also not contributed much in my opinion.
lilwade, his activity is super low. I saw something in one of his posts that gave him a pass for the day and was going to keep my eyes on him for day 2. He should not be off the scum radar.
Barakos, I know most of us are reading him as town but remember, noone is confirmed!
Daydreamarine, I asked him a question during the night and tried to do it in a roleplay fashion. Make sure he answers it and hopefully that will help you with him.

Remember this post:
On August 29 2014 06:20 JennyHell wrote:
Moving on, what I'd like for us to do is this:

1. Be up front about your reads. It's ok to change your mind, it's not scummy. It shows you are willing to re-evaluate as more information comes up.

2. Don't leave anyone out. If you are unsure, say you are unsure and why.

3. Please please please!!! Do not say "I think he may be town but he's scummy" Pick one or at least which way they are leaning. Because it's hella confusing. I get one can be unsure of reads. I have many of those I am not a 100% on, but at some point you will have to start trusting yourself and your reads and instead allow them to change your mind according to what I said in point 1.

Strong stances people. It's better to change your mind as more info comes to you. This is day 2 coming up and we've already had 1 mislynch. We can't afford many more.

To end this post, no matter who dies, ask yourself who had anything to gain from this nightkill.

JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 28 2014 21:41 GMT
#491
Oh, and try to be around for deadlines! they are superduper important!

My suggestions for possible wagons coming in to day 2 is:

Breshke & MihZaa.
They were on my scumlist day 1 and they still haven't done anything to make me change my mind on them.

Of course, if I were to live (which would be hella dumb mafiaplay) then I will reconsider everyone.
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 28 2014 21:57 GMT
#495
I'm heading to bed because I have to get up early.
Here are my final reads for this night.
Hopefully I can live on tomorrow but I don't see that happening.

Town: Barakos (he's not confirmed)
Leaning town: Superbia (Stop being hardheaded and a donkey! It's ok to change reads.)
Leaning town: abuse (Gurl, pick your game up and be here when you're needed.)
Leaning town: Daydreamarine (There was something in his RP that caught my eye. Hopefully he'll answer my Q!)
Leaning mafia: lilwade (You need to pick it up and prove yourself.)
Leaning mafia: meatpudding (Some of your logic I've recently started questioning)
Mafia: MihZaaa (You've slipped under my radar for far too long and you contradict yourself in what you say.)
Mafia: Breshke (You still make me feel like you've done nothing this game.)
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 29 2014 03:58 GMT
#511
Ok, so why was meatpudding the kill?
The rolehunting seems real. I think it had something to do with that cop soft claim that was mentioned during day1. That even he said wasn't at all a soft. I guess they just didn't want to take the risk.
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 29 2014 04:23 GMT
#512
Breshke, I agree that me defending Gobblegobblegobble shouldn't in itself be a sole reason to read me as town. But how about everything else I've done? Do you feel that the only thing I've done that is towny is trying to get votes off of Gobble?
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 29 2014 05:36 GMT
#513
Can we make this Day2 to be more active than Day1, please?
We have some proper work to do and it's going to be way easier for town if we are active.
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 29 2014 05:39 GMT
#514
Today we really need to focus on creating wagons.
Wagons help us get proper information about voting!
The way day1 ended was not good for town.
JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 29 2014 08:44 GMT
#519
Abuse, a couple of questions while you are here:

I have no clue what question I must have missed that you were talking about, would you mind directing me to it?

Why do you think you were roleblocked? Do you think they think you softed a role?

How come lilwade is so high on your list? I gave him a pass for Day1, but I don't feel the same anymore.

JennyHell
Profile Joined July 2014
Sweden259 Posts
August 29 2014 14:50 GMT
#553
Ok, here's my explanation for why I gave lilwade slack day 1 and don't feel the same anymore.

He comes out in his first post by saying "Let it go, let it goooo!"
I instantly think about the song and realizes that there are some words in it that would fit a tracker amazingly, so I say "How am I supposed to follow you if there's no footprint to be seen?" to see if he reacts to it.
He responded rather cheerfully and then at a later stage I felt that he softed tracker in one of his posts.
Now that abuse has come out as being roleblocked it means that tracker is a less likely role, unless abuse is testing us all to see if he can out roles.

Roles should not out, by the way.

But that also meant that I'm back to the point where I feel like lilwade just haven't done enough. Therefore, no longer cutting him the slack that I did day1.
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