EPTto the unknown
TL Mafia LXVII: Storm Mafia 2
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Vivax
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to the unknown | ||
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Prplhz why do you have such a loser mentality. Iamp gets some townie points. | ||
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On July 07 2014 21:33 prplhz wrote: is has nothing to do with confidence or mentality but with an objective evaluation of the situation right now The situation right now is that there are three people posting. Do you agree or disagree with iamp's entrance looking townish so far? | ||
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We will hop on the green grass holding pinky fingers and throwing flowers. | ||
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A kid is involved in an accident, his father is currently at work and out of the city. He is brought into the city hospital for emergency surgery. On the operation table, the chief surgeon takes off the mask and says: "I cannot operate this patient, this is my son". How is it possible? | ||
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On July 07 2014 22:10 Alakaslam wrote: Surgeon is his mother. Anyway Prplhz, check out "a fire in the deep" You lie What about fire in the deep is there you want to tell us about. | ||
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Who's driving? | ||
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Aside from that, I don't get any scummy vibes so far. In fact I think I'll at least preliminarly townread everyone who posted so far and look for scum among the latecomers. | ||
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2) 1/2 | ||
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Was the second 1/2 - 1/6? | ||
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On July 07 2014 23:05 Toadesstern wrote: YES BITCHES. I'm not fucking mafia again. Who is up to be my buddy on my legendary quest to murder all of mafia? So that being said I can somewhat guarantee you that I won't become a whiny emo bitch. But really only somewhat. Let's start with prplhz because he indeed is way to stiff for this game, especially in the very beginning. I agree with ... I think Vivax ... that he did sound unmotivated and down in his early posts. Combine that with posts like and he's easily #1 lynch target right now. If that post isn't some kind of super hard sarcasm that I'm not picking up on it's super "wtf is that guy even talking about" in a way that at the same time tries to sound reasonable / smart / whatever you want to call it. ##vote prplhz Why should mafia sound unmotivated and down in their early posts. Why should they post at all if they are unmotivated and down when their objective is to look townie. This post is too confident about too little for my taste and doesn't deliver any explanation why that mindset makes prpl scum. Explain why mafia would sound like that or you're scum Toad. | ||
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They do not wish to contribute anything meaningful to begin with but have to look like they do. Does prpl look like he was trying to contribute something meaningful? Frankly to me that looks more like it's the case with you, you don't try to figure him out first, but say that he's scum for 1. sounding down, 2. saying something that didn't make sense. How does that look like he's trying to contribute something meaningful. Imo mafia is more likely to pop into the thread with some hasty arguments as to why somebody is scum, like you. | ||
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I will be using the night to correct time cycles because of instant majority. | ||
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Nevermind, I thought you were thinking it's plurality cause you said something about deadlines. | ||
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On July 07 2014 23:52 iamperfection wrote: about 75% of the posts have been useless including mine why pick koshi over anyone else. I'm interested into this too. Prpl, what do you think of Toad's stuff so far? I'd have expected you to fight back in some way by now. | ||
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On July 07 2014 23:55 Forumite wrote: He´s actively creating more useless posts beside his own by making others go along with his games and riddles. This is a very superficial read and shows you're not in the same frame as the guys who start D1 with literally nothing else to talk about but...Something. | ||
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On July 08 2014 00:06 prplhz wrote: i don't think anything about toad's posts. they're overzealous but in my experience that is not outside of what toad is capable of doing as either alignment. So it doesn't bother you at all that he finds you scummy despite there being flaws in the argumentation? Do you like his points on Forumite? | ||
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On July 08 2014 00:14 VisceraEyes wrote: So far I like Vivax the least of everyone actively posting. I think he reacted poorly to being called out by Forumite. Where did he call me out. | ||
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On July 08 2014 00:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh Forumite never called out Vivax. So why is he reacting to Forumite calling out Koshi? :/ Something weird is already going on. I think you should reread the game a few more times. | ||
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On July 08 2014 00:27 VisceraEyes wrote: It's not baseless. Forumite is calling out Koshi for shitposting right? Why is Vivax feeling compelled to respond to that? I saw Vivax post on it and thought Forumite was talking about /him/ right? But he wasn't, he was talking about Koshi. Like, he reacts with immediate suspicion against Forumite based on that one line. It just seems aggressive for how passively Vivax opened the game. Different from the /rest/ of his play. But please, tell me how baseless my suspicions are more iamp. Both me and Koshi posted riddles and talked about not so important stuff while there was nothing important to talk about. Forumite could have called out both of us on it, but he didn't. The thing about forumite is that his reasoning on Koshi implies you should be posting serious stuff when not enough people have posted something of substance at that point. The not serious stuff is a way of getting discussion going, however pointless it might be, it's still better than nothing. Do you understand it now or will you leave your point standing that it's scummy to call out stuff you find scummy even when that stuff is not adressed to you? | ||
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On July 08 2014 00:11 Forumite wrote: I'm actively withholding judgement on Toades. My first reaction was to ignore my read on Koshi and chainsaw Toades, but that would have been only based on him voting for prplhz. That´s not necessarily a scum trait, just reading prplhz wrong. Koshi, you have to own up on your vote for iamperfection and post it in the voting thread, it doesn´t count otherwise. On July 08 2014 00:21 Forumite wrote: I have a long career of mislynching you after a weak scumread leads me to tunnel and ruin it for town. Since then I interpret weak scumreads on you as strong signs of townieness. Idk, shouldn't he be townreading Toad based on what he said? Or where does he draw the line between a weak scumread on prpl and strong one when it comes to Toad? | ||
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One point that makes me think of that is that first he called me scummy for reacting poorly to forumite calling me out. When he realized he actually didn't call me out, he called me scummy for reacting to him in the first place. It just doesn't make sense that I should react only to guys talking about me, so it just looks like an adjustment after his previous point was made invalid. His arguments for my reaction being poor were: And look at how he frames it - he's calling the guy mafia in a way that reeks of trying to identify with the crowd. "You're clearly not in the same frame of mind as me and these other guys who are town" Which is a perfectly fine argument in line with mafia not looking at the game the same way a townie does. All the way not considering that forumite's preference for Koshi over me or anyone else talking about random stuff has no explanation. | ||
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On July 08 2014 01:27 kushm4sta wrote: also this thought is usually too in depth for mafia isn't it? The depth of mafia arguments is up to their creativity, and I wouldn't put it past VE to be creative. Besides, he says my intention was to identify with a town crowd, when my intention was to show why forum could be scum. As said, it looks to me like he was just trying to find scum motives behind my play at any cost. | ||
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I mentioned the exact same thing and Koshi responded to it. Seeing as you agree, can you call me town? I like being called town. The day I call somebody town just for saying the same thing as me is the day I lose to mafia. Are you applying that reasoning to me to townread me or what? Since you're expecting me to do such a thing. | ||
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Does somebody else want to chime in onto VE and forumite, who fucked off x2 or am I fighting a lonely fight? Robik, did you already forget that kush claiming to not have read his PM has happened in the recent past and I don't recall you going instalynch on him? I did though cause he wasn't trying to solve the game, initially, but I wouldn't get that notion just from his first post. | ||
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He also accused me of calling Toades scum, which I´m fairly sure I never did Koshi, where did you accuse him of calling Toad scum, I can't find such a thing. | ||
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I can't tell if that's sloppy reasoning or scummy reasoning though, can you? | ||
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Spamming, ruining the thread. But when I look at the games he played, they aren't many, but he's been around this forum longer than I have, I think, so I wouldn't expect him to apply such reasoning. On his earlier posts, I have changed my mind. I understand that the early game can be dull and those posts at least gets things going. I still lean heavily towards scum on Koshi, he drew those riddle posts for a few too many pages and has since done a few things that I feel are off when pushing me. He's still so focused on the riddle stuff but now draws a line between early and middle game, I'd much rather hear what he found off about Koshi pushing him than rehashing that he didn't like the unserious posts. | ||
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He's like main carry for mafia when he doesn't get vigged though, cause nobody cba to try and read something into his shit. | ||
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On July 08 2014 07:18 prplhz wrote: i've come to the conclusion that it's unlikely that forumite would make an early 99% read as scum and then provide such qustionable reasoning for it so maybe sloosh is scum ##Vote slOosh Why? Cause he didn't reach your same conclusion? Am I scum too? | ||
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On July 08 2014 07:31 Koshi wrote: Reading Alakaslam. geript and rayn can do it. It is possible. He just needs to try a bit sometimes. Somewhere I don't get why he doesn't visibly try more. Chezinu always tries to actually scumhunt. Somewhere. Dnu. I shall try to figure out Slam this game. He has basically said that whoever is 1 vote away from hammer, he's going to hammer him like in his last games. Which means he won't do anything except execute what the majority is thinking. Good luck reading him though, I will visit you in your cell while you wear the I-love-myself-jacket. Toad I don't like how you bitched about Cora's first post. I actually think it's pretty townie. | ||
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On July 08 2014 07:41 Toadesstern wrote: So? There's other people who said they like what I posted so far, including that "bitching"... think it was iamp. Is there a point in mentioning that you don't like it or is that just a random aside? Your entrance on prp was shitty, your bitching about somebody cause he takes too many things into consideration at the same time is shitty. Prp scum cause he's sounding down and whatnot. Cora scum cause he doesn't sound sure enough of himself and puts caveats into his reads. This is shitty cause you use it in the reasoning to townread Forum: Why would mafia say they were considering to chainsaw me If you look at his post and think a bit about it you'll figure that chainsaw is what he thinks means calling out as scummy. When the real meaning is that you attack a guy who is attacking your scumbuddy. Just cause he used that word didn't mean that he meant the same thing you know as chainsawing. But despite suspecting him earlier, you immediately took it that way. Overall I find some of your reasoning weak for jumping on or off these guys. | ||
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On July 08 2014 07:54 Toadesstern wrote: fine, let's just ignore the fact that plenty of people have said they like most of my reasoning so far for a second and pretty much half the thread has me down as blatantly town right now. What do you make of me having weak reasoning according to you? Is me being wrong indicative of me being mafia, or town or whatever else? What are you even trying to say here. If you're so sure of your own reasoning and reference other people believing you as a way to reinforce that notion, then you should also be quite sure that prpl is still scum for what he wrote there. But I don't feel like you have that feeling. | ||
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I do that all the time too. It's like you're expecting him to lock a target, and only bring arguments of one kind (guilty or innocent). That's not how you find mafia, that's how you get somebody lynched. I would portray you as almost polar opposites cause while he's considerate about the reads he gives and shows some doubts, you're playing the "lock-on and post all scummy stuff you can find-game", but for one exception, Forumite (who you voiced doubts about), but for some reason you'd lynch him before prplhz while I have yet to see you voicing doubts about prplhz himself. Do you realize where my beef lies? | ||
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On July 08 2014 09:02 ritoky wrote: because i think yamato's reasoning is equally as bad as forums, but he is only critical of 1 You mean Toad is only critical of one. This could cause confusion when people read your filter if you don't say who "he" is. On July 08 2014 03:30 Damdred wrote: It doesn't necessarily make you town and it doesn't make you scum at this point. However your post screams hey guys i'm a townie look i'm being helpful, which is cool it just brings heat down on you and makes you look like you are trying to be seen as town. Toad seems to be playing semi-aggressive I don't know if that can be said he isn't scum hunting however at the moment anyway. On July 08 2014 06:00 Damdred wrote: *snip* And Toads well hes playing pretty out there and drawing some attention to himself, even though its possible hes mafia hes more likely to be checked playing this way and wouldn't work in his favor + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120914120349/uncyclopedia/images/b/b5/Exploding-head.gif) Elaborate on Toad please. Is he aggressive and you don't know if that can be said? You don't know it can be said if he isn't scumhunting? He isn't scumhunting? Is he scummy to you? You don't want to lynch him cause he's likely to be checked? It's really confusing to get what you're saying sometimes and for the "he's gonna be checked" part I have a hard time believing that it's a legit reason to not want to lynch somebody. | ||
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No, you forgot your case on mderg. | ||
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Also I pointed out that the second part of your case disregarded that Koshi had already been previously scumread by Forum so that is a possible explanation for why he kinda cleared Toad but not Koshi. DO you agree? | ||
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Yamato, tell me more about Obi and what you saw between me and VE. I didn't see the scumminess in SlOosh's initial post, but him fucking off leaving it only at scumreading Forum and then kind of moderating between me and Toad without trying to read us was scummy. | ||
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On July 08 2014 21:28 Forumite wrote: I want layabout and Tehpoofter to die or get their game going And Hiro. But there's not much point in talking about them since you either say you wanna plynch them or you wait for a vig and don't talk about them, so get your decisions straight or talk about people who posted something. | ||
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You were super duper scum on him cause he posted riddles, now he's saying you asking prpl for reads didn't make much sense. If I were to imagine myself in your position as hypothetical townie, I'd rather be suspicious about the guy bitching about my questions that I feel were legitimate than the guy posting riddles in the first pages of the game. | ||
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Hence I'd like to hear what he has to say to your post before I give my judgment. | ||
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When you have this picture in your head of some threatening big guy posting authoritarian one-liners about stuff that deserves attention you can be sure he's town. | ||
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On July 08 2014 06:00 Damdred wrote: I have read all of the thread and have tried to keep up to date. Koshis posting annoyed me a little with the riddles and what not, even though I understand that he was trying to stir up some kind of activity (possibly) from his postings the town does not benefit from random posts that clutter up the thread. However I do think his early postings were trolling and his later ones did add some thought to the thread, Robik's postings have been interesting and he has interacted with the people outside of being random, his overall overreaction to being called scum is note worthy and could be a deflection but i'm not sure. If I was forced to name a few people that gave me interest at this moment I would go with Forumite, VE. I wouldn't say lynch them, Forumites read early on is a bit odd and his and VE call to get a majority lynch in the first 24 hrs or so troubles me. The more time we have to talk and to pry information from people the better rather than the less time. Even though day 1 is always odd in my opinion and you don't have much to go on its always good to gauge how people react. I probably wouldn't lynch exo at this point, or toads. Exo has a history of playing aloof and you can never tell much about him day one. And Toads well hes playing pretty out there and drawing some attention to himself, even though its possible hes mafia hes more likely to be checked playing this way and wouldn't work in his favor If I compare it to how Cora wrote his post Toad found so scummy, where he weighs pro and cons, you state a bunch of things you find odd, among them VE who proposes quick lynches (while he was not the only one,I think prpl did too). The jist is that here you're saying a lot of stuff but really not anything at all. It's not like you give weight to these things like: "This is scummy, but that is also townie" etc. You just list things that are noteworthy in your opinion but nowhere do I see you trying to draw a conclusion from them, it's more like you only list everything when you say at the same time that it will sort itself out in some way. | ||
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Overall I'm not trusting Toad cause he gives me the feeling he's pushing people before figuring them out, and there are multiple instances where he feels the need to emphasize he's being so townie, and how he goes guns blazing on everyone. On July 08 2014 08:16 Toadesstern wrote: like I said, my beef with Cora is that he did that with every single aspect. Mafias are more cautious about what they're posting and tend to try to be more people-pleaser than townies. I don't mind people bringing multiple arguments into the table, heck I did the same with forumite not a long time ago. I do however mind it if the guy brings 10 arguments on the table and calls all 10 of his own arguments useless and weak in the same post. Not just some of them but literally every single one. The guy is horribly afraid to put his head out in any kind of way. | ||
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On July 08 2014 22:44 Damdred wrote: Eh, I guess I can see that. Like i've said before though it was in the parameters of the question I was asked, and I was asked to keep it brief so I did. It probably wasn't the best decision based on the few posts I have gotten in response to it as it made me appear scummy I suppose. Well I hope you won't only post reads when asked cause that's what I've seen of you so far. Do you think I have some point with Toad or do you stick to your own read. | ||
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On July 08 2014 22:47 Forumite wrote: Not sure if I agree. In the beginning he was doing random voting with his first push on prplhz, that´s not scummy. Repeating how everyone thinks he´s town, maybe a bit odd. Why random voting, he seemed pretty adamant about defending his point when I called him out on it. | ||
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Hivemind at work here. | ||
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He adapts way more to what others think when he's scum, doesn't just come out with his own thoughts out of the blue. | ||
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Pick a number from 1 to 3. | ||
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Hokay. ##Vote HiroPro | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote batsnacks | ||
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On July 08 2014 23:59 IAmRobik wrote: If sloosh fucked off after that "case" on forumite, i think i feel even scummier on him. From that list, my list of who I'd kill first to last would be: Tier 1 (kill quicker) Sloosh Poofter Harurh obiwan Tier 2 mderg batsnacks Tier 3 (kill less quickly) layabout hiro exo How do you differentiate between Poofter and Hiro + layabout though. | ||
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On July 09 2014 12:57 Corazon wrote: Alright, so about Iamp: Whether we lynch Iamp or not will determine how we go about this game. A majority of the players in this game have almost no filter and have no expressed their opinion whatsoever. Town will lose if this continues to be the case. Sure we will eventually vote people out, but town is going to cruise into loserville if we vote haphazardly. I'm slightly leaning towards scum on Iamp because his filter is 6 pages and only 5% of it contains statements that show what his opinions of other players are. A lot of his posts are just filler, answering questions, or one-liner stuff. There's also the issue in his reads post that the explanation of his scumread on me is weak at best (and a lot worse than the other two), yet I'm his top scum read. That makes no sense at all and it seems like he just has an agenda to get me lynched. On the other hand, Iamp does have the longest filter in the game (or at least close if Koshi's is longer) and if he is town, he will be able to actually get us far. Since I really think we should lynch into the pool of players who have not shown their reads or have weak reads that are based off of absolutely nothing, I would prefer if we not lynched Iamp today. However, if I had to choose between Iamp and a no-lynch, I would lynch Iamp. I hope that clears my stance on him. I still think a Robik lynch would be good because he's just playing like a chicken with his head cut off plus some players have actually defended Robik by saying that they think he's actually justifying his reads and that he is being "active" (which is really puzzling to me), which would put more value into a Robik lynch than one might think at first glance. I don't understand this, iamp is scummy to you but you prefer not to lynch him for his activity (8 pages of filter). Robik is a headless chicken (10 pages) and you think that he's more worth lynching cause some people defended him. If both are scummy to you, why does the activity argument apply to the guy with the smaller filter??? | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote Cora | ||
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It came right after Toad pointed out how he made similar posts in other games where he was town. Which made me think he could have made it just for the purpose of appearing town. Anyway still need to finish a few pages. | ||
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On July 10 2014 00:34 prplhz wrote: this sucks but we're probably gonna have to lynch iamp Why does it suck if you have to. | ||
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This whole iamp wagon bugs me cause I agree that it's unlikely scum started it (since Koshi did) and there are some valid arguments + iamp's list post timing, but on the other hand I don't wanna lynch this guy D1 when he can be a potentially strong asset to town. Can you spell out to me why you're in such a hurry to lynch anything. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote iamperfection | ||
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On July 08 2014 03:20 iamperfection wrote: I agree with toad by the way that was a scummy post corazon Where is this in your case, Koshi? | ||
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Toadesstern- This post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/461003-tl-mafia-lxvii-storm-mafia-2?page=55#1087 set alarm bells off in my head i don't really give a shit if he thinks im scum but usually when a townie thinks your scum they simply try to get you lynched. Toad dosnt do that he in some convoluted way directing a wagon but not partaking in it. Townies want to lynch scum and for something that he said is pretty fucking convincing i don't get why he wouldn't try to lynch me. Yeah ok, he doesn't really try do that with Cora until like a fuckload of hours later and even then it's still a pretty half-assed "Vote Cora cause...vote Cora wagon of justice etc." Overall he's too focused on himself after posting his townville post with 3 people he's super confident about being scum. ##Vote iamperfection | ||
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On July 10 2014 02:06 27ninjabunnies wrote: Truth. Your danish is better than mine. Probably because the only thing I can say in danish is "Will you sleep with me?" My best friend is from Denmark, and she taught me that. Never know when it might come in handy. I care about finding scum. I want to lynch scum. I don't think Iamp is scum. I don't want to lynch him. Seems like solving to me. Just because I'm a woman doesn't make me a drama queen. Ask anyone who knows me. I'm awesome, and loveable, and funny, and smart. lol | ||
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You got to admit that he talks more about himself or other stuff than about his scumreads. That doesn't have to mean much for everyone but it means a lot for iamp. | ||
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On July 10 2014 03:04 layabout wrote: still on page 25 but totes called that iamp was town and ninja was 3p what idiots voted for that lynch? You mean, what idiot doesn't do anything all game long only to pop in post flip and sound smart when he didn't do anything to get his opinion through while he still had the chance. If your play D2 is homologous to D1 and you don't bleed town with your posts you can be sure to have me on your ass all game long til you flip dead. Show us where you made those calls cause I can't see them. | ||
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On July 10 2014 03:36 layabout wrote: I will try and catch and and post stuff before night since i am probably getting shot but why would i try to direct a town when i haven't had time for even reading the thread? You knew what you were up to when you signed into a game of this size. Don't do it if you can't play the game, no excuses. Given the huge amount of lurkers in this game I wouldn't even be mad if you didn't come in post flip to make yourself sound so needlessly smart. I would usually not even be able to say for sure that it makes you scum, but what else am I supposed to read you with, with a filter of your size. It shows your incredible passivity up until a point where you could somehow make yourself look better. And you don't answer the question: Where did you state that iamp is town and bunnies third party. | ||
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Weren't you interested into what he had to say, were you just that confident, or afraid for yourself? | ||
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On July 10 2014 03:56 Corazon wrote: Cause we weren't going to get any other lynch besides Iamp. No one else picked up enough serious suspicion besides Forumite (who I think is town) and myself (who I know is town). As I said before, I'd rather take an Iamp lynch over a no-lynch. We weren't really facing the threat of a no-lynch with 3 hours left. | ||
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Just from his filter I have a hard time telling who he's scumreading, or seeing that he has the intention to. I'm more keen on lynching him than Cora atm. In fact I'd prefer if we didn't lynch Cora cause I can think of a few townie things in his filter, will elaborate if I see the need. Will be less active in this game for a bit, don't rush it till I get to read some more please, especially the information around Obi. | ||
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On July 10 2014 23:59 mderg wrote: You are right that I could powerread this thread and play in the present. But that would mean that I have basically no idea about anything that happened. Good luck powerreading about 60 pages and remembering anything after that. How are you supposed to know how long it takes for me to catch up with the thread? You don´t know how fast I read, you don´t know how much time I´m spending on this, you don´t know what else is going on in my life. Stating anything like that is completely ridiculous. Of course I knew how close you were to an iamperfection lynch, I said that I was kinda reading what´s new, and that I did. But I had no idea why he was getting lynched, so I didn´t really have an opinion on him. My post you quoted was just about prefering an iamperfection lynch over a no lynch since a no lynch sucks. I also didn´t expect anyone to hammer him so early because it makes basically no sense to do that as any alignment. You also didn´t address kush´s and layabout´s points on me which make far more sense than the bullshit you said. It would be way more useful if you didn't focus on yourself and instead try to figure out who the scum is. Not that it's completely useless cause it demonstrates your defensive attitude but if you're town you won't convince anyone of that if you don't show that you're actively trying out to figure out the game and commit to your opinions. | ||
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Do you still scumread yamato? | ||
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Mainly for the activity thingy where he decided to give leeway to iamp but not to Robik, I couldn't really see the scum agenda behind it. But thinking it through twice then that makes his iamp hammer even more illogical, so I'm taking that back, it was rash. I have a hard time believing that he was the guy who shot Obi: On July 10 2014 03:23 Corazon wrote: Please just do everyone a favor and shut the fuck up. You're just spewing out the stupidest shit ever just so people can read you as town. [b]Someone vig this idiot, please. Now he comes in with a claim that's supposed to save his ass, but then still martyrs even though he should have an entirely different attitude if he actually just shot scum. I would like the guy who shot Obi to claim cause I don't believe this guy. | ||
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Alright guys, now I can focus entirely on this game, let's kill the fucking scum. | ||
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On July 08 2014 03:30 Damdred wrote: It doesn't necessarily make you town and it doesn't make you scum at this point. However your post screams hey guys i'm a townie look i'm being helpful, which is cool it just brings heat down on you and makes you look like you are trying to be seen as town. Toad seems to be playing semi-aggressive I don't know if that can be said he isn't scum hunting however at the moment anyway. Dam, with Cora's alignment being known now I'm interested into the bolded. Was it meant to say that what he was doing was scummy or not? | ||
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On July 11 2014 05:34 prplhz wrote: ##Vote Koshi i'm masoned with koshi and he's denying it in thread no reason to lie as town so he's scum I don't really see how that makes him insta scum but you could explain it to me. Maybe he had some special plans for you two in mind and didn't want you to go around spouting about you two being masoned. How do you conclude that he must be scum just based on that. | ||
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On July 10 2014 11:04 HiroPro wrote: sup. I read the thread. anyway, I think you guys are missing the boat on VE. I'm more interested in how VE went from saying that he wasn't interested in lynching anyone who was active to lynching the second-most active player in this game (iamperfection). The reasons that he gave don't appear very strong at all and he only said anything about the guy when sloosh prompted him to. VE, I think this is for you. He doesn't seem all that interested about it now so I would enjoy if you two could make a public discussion about this. He didn't ask you for your reasoning for iamp or anything, just stated he didn't like it and kinda forgot about it to then sheep prplhz on Damdred. Sort this out for the thread to see, thanks. | ||
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On July 11 2014 06:53 Koshi wrote: Vivax. Tell me about ghost players. I saw that the vengeful spirit can figure out if somebody is a ghost or not, there's not much more that I can say about it. | ||
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On July 11 2014 06:58 Koshi wrote: Vivax can you tell me prplhz is 100% town? I'm rolling with that at the moment. Can't be 100 % but I don't feel he's the scum I'm looking for when I read his stuff. Can you give me an interpretation of this post cause I ge the feeling laya wants to scumread VE, and in the second half he wants to scumread mderg, but I'm not really sure. It's quite the salad, but I get the feeling he might be making some important points about the two. On July 10 2014 10:08 layabout wrote: at page 42 and i can't believe that koshi could head up a wagon kinda don't want to post properly yet but since you insist kush.. kush the very statement that VE was convinced mderg was scum is untrue. If you look at VE's posts around the time he is clearly willing to move to Exo could get behind a forumite lynch and is open to nearly anyone that isn't very active as a potential lynch. Hell look at his vote post: Click the nested bit!! mderg says that that isn't "close to a scumread" however, I would say it's a description of scummy behavior making it pretty much "close to a scumread" mderg is either lying or is inattentive. His actions not only fit but match VE's day1 play in nearly every game i have seen him in. VE's vote typically bounces around all over the place. VE is clearly open to a number of lynches and is actively considering other lynche candidate eg corazon. Mderg's point that VE swapped from a hard read to someone who he didn't think was scummy is also totally misrepresentative. mderg is not only adding a throwaway point but one that is not valid If you still aren't convinced about VE give this a read: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/461003-tl-mafia-lxvii-storm-mafia-2?user=VisceraEyes&page=2 mderg addresses VE's switch by suggesting that VE never thought mderg was mafia in the first place This leaves the idea that VE is mafia and acted knowing that mderg is town, not just in a way suggest's VE is mafia because mderg thinks VE is mafia. This is making a point in the way mafia might attempt to as they benefit from doing so. I will likely get onto this later but nothing looked town about obiwan's entrance into the thread and i am surprised it hasn't been jumped on yet http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=22528115 | ||
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On July 11 2014 07:00 Koshi wrote: No I meant the kind of ghost players you called thepoofter scum for in World Cup. I would say mderg fits that profile the most, 2 of his scumreads basically vanished within a short time, leaving only forumite, yet I don't see him acting upon that, only discussing stuff revolving around him. | ||
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On July 11 2014 07:14 Koshi wrote: Ok. But can you give me the definition of a ghost "player". A guy who posts a lot without trying to change much about the flow of the game. Textbook scum. | ||
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On July 11 2014 07:17 layabout wrote: The point was that VE called mderg scum partly for throwaway posting then leaving mderg did that again and i jumped on it. kush then said i wasn't looking at mdergs point that VE had a hard read and ditched it for a mislynch my post was highlighting that mderg point was made in a way to make himself look good whilst attacking ve his accuser and that the thing he was saying about ve was a lie since VE clearly didn't have a hard read and his switch to another target was very predictable furthermore if you look at mdergs posting today it doesn't exactly say "town agenda" So the point is that mderg defended himself by claiming that VE never scumread him, while saying that VE is scummy for that? But VE did consider him as scumread, so it was untrue. Alrighty, I hope it's easier to digest now. I'd lke to hear mderg's version of this before deciding if I should apply this as well. | ||
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On July 11 2014 07:31 HiroPro wrote: pay a little more attention: Can you summarize in your own thoughts why damdred is scum? | ||
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Plus the timing for Hiro to start defending mderg doesn't make sense cause there have been multiple arguments for him being scum so far. When does Hiro starts discussing mderg at all? When he switches from BM to another topic. I'll illustrate what's scummy about all of this. On July 11 2014 16:37 HiroPro wrote: Because people on TL love to claim for the slightest reason? You should know this by now. Anyway your case on mderg seems pretty ticky-tacky. It's not all clear from what you quoted whether mderg was still expressing a mafia read on VE then or whether mderg was saying that Vivax had forgotten that mderg had expressed a previous mafia read on VE. On July 11 2014 16:41 HiroPro wrote: To put it into terms you may better understand - for the same reason that layabout said stuff about there not being any notifications when he should have just kept his mouth shut. People think they're being helpful even when they're not. On July 11 2014 16:43 slOosh wrote: Garbo soft defense HiroPro, it's pretty clear that Vivax asked him for current scum reads (hence his use of the present tense), Try again. On July 11 2014 16:51 HiroPro wrote: w/e. there's no point in me discussing this with you any further when he should be the one talking about himself. But I think you're seriously mistaken if you think that shows anything, especially when he's not a native english speaker. Do you have any town explanation for BM's behavior? Timeline: SlOosh enters: "Don't lynch BM, lynch mderg cause case" *they discuss why BM is scum or not* Hiro: "I think BM is scum cause he planned on outing PR cause PR on TL out themselves for no reason. You should know this". Hiro: "Anyway your case on mderg here looks pretty shit and everything" SlOosh: "No, your soft defense sux cause bsbs" Hiro: "Oh well I shouldn't be defending him. So, why is BM town?" What I find scummy here is the way Hiro changes topics. The initial topic was BM, it caused attrition between him and SlOosh. Scum don't like attrition. Hiro figured he wasn't going anywhere with his arguments for lynching BM, so he starts attacking SlOosh's case. When that doesn't go anywhere, he finds a reason for why he shouldn't do that and goes back to the BM topic. All of this gives me the feeling that Hiro's real intent wasn't defending mderg, which he could have done a lot earlier while most people were discussing him, but somehow try to discredit SlOosh by trying to find flaws in his mderg case, cause he felt uncomfortable about the resistance SlOosh was giving to his BM push. If Hiro was really mostly interested into the BM topic, then he wouldn't try to change topic in between, before moving the discussion to BM again and why SlOosh isn't scumreading him. IE: Hiro is probably mafia for this attempted topic switch. | ||
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On July 11 2014 23:47 kushm4sta wrote: Vivax I don't see hiro attempting a topic switch as either alignment this game So he's neither scum nor town rofl? | ||
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On July 11 2014 23:51 kushm4sta wrote: He's not attempting a topic change Yes he does, he discusses BM with SlOosh. When SlOosh isn't convinced, he attacks his case on mderg for no reason I can think of except "well, this guy is opposing me". When SlOosh says his defense sucks, he tries to go back to discussing BM. I can't think of any other reason for Hiro starting to defend mderg at that single point when he could have done that much earlier, except for the reason that SlOosh was opposing him. | ||
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When I asked him about the yammo read he had to think it through and decided to change it, but now he clearly didn't think through his ExO read and the fact that the guy was on Obi as well. It's a scumread on a whim. ##Vote: mderg | ||
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I see my absence hasn't gone unnoticed. Needless to say I'll need a while to catch up with everything. | ||
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I'm not sure if this necessarily makes him scum given the efforts I've seen but it would be worth a good explanation as to why his reads are so wobbly. On July 12 2014 04:01 layabout wrote: might need to rush off and i dont have time for full analysis but... these were the 3 main important lynches: obwian (Mafia) forumite(?) and iamp(town) obi wagon at it's highest i feel like prplhz and exo are town but might need to look over it fourmite wagons at it's highest toad sloosh and huruh are the ones i would be least confident calling town followed by billl full iamp wagon: people on iamp wagon that weren't on either of the other two of this group we know obi was mafia and that corazon was town, i am willing to label kush and sinani town so this suggest vivax or forumite is scum playerlist minus 3 main wagons IAmRobik town iamperfection town layabout ritoky batsnacks mderg Damdred Forumite HiroPro Tehpoofter 3rd party 27ninjabunnies 3rd party maybe someone could colour it? On July 15 2014 10:29 layabout wrote: If people by and large aren't seeing toad a scum i might put the idea on hold. It really bugs me that ritoky labels those posts "vote analysis" it's vote data the analysis is the bit that you do with it that he hasn't done for instance: I believe that in the end mafia would prefer to be on the list of voters for kushmaster than not once they thought he was doomed. kush would have died yesterday or today so whilst a mislynch was desirable it would not be worth the risk of exposing more members of the team. Even if they tried to save kush once it was clear that he would get lynched then, being on the wagon make them look a whole lot better than not. So if you agree with my initial statement mafia are likelier to be in; Group 1: kushm4sta:toadesstern, sloosh, batsnacks, yamato77, forumite, hiropro, ritoky, harurh Than in group 2: Non-voters: layabout, koshi, vivax, exo_, damnedred, alakaslam Next i would use my thoughts about the players in question to trim group 1 down to: batsnacks forumite hiropro ritoky harurh and after looking into that i might say that we should kill batsnacks or ritoky and since he never bothered to do any of this i would then say that we should kill ritoky. ^^^^^ Vote analysis ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ On July 15 2014 10:54 layabout wrote: prior to yesterday my preference would have been damdred - > ritoky -> bat given that he went nowhere i don't see why i would want to move ritoky up that order even before he stopped playing vivax did nothing to make it onto any of my lists of town hero's peope with town points or people to be weary of so i could consider lynching him before bat if we are still playing or decide to lynch bat at all. we shouldn't forget all this: On July 16 2014 00:36 layabout wrote: if i were to vote viavx it would be for doing nothing significant despite posting a lot then disappearing, it would be policy in part damdred gave me weird vibes at the start and has done nothing to change that ##Vote Damdred | ||
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On July 12 2014 05:32 Damdred wrote: Question for mderg, why do you have layabout and Haru posted as scum but you voted for someone that you were leaning scum in such a knee jerk fashion? It would probably of been less scummy going for one of them rather than voteing exo like you did if you had such a scum read on them to. This question was asked right before the hammer on mderg and his vote. Does this look like a question you ask to somebody you suspect of being scum? This feels more like a question I would ask post game to a guy of whom I know he's town, asking him why he made the mistake of looking scummy. Mderg replies: I voted Exo because his post looked awful at that moment. I don´t keep lists who is exactly how scummy all the time, so the vote was a decision for that moment. Also layabout wasn´t that scummy at the point I voted, he just got way down in my list because wanting the hammer. I could have changed the vote but that wouldn´t have changed anything. I will 99,9% be lynched anyway. And this is Damdred's reaction. On July 12 2014 10:58 Damdred wrote: I guess i could hammer if everyone wants me to... On July 12 2014 11:04 Damdred wrote: Ok I don't think we are getting anywhere at this point so i'm going to hammer and end the day early ##Vote: Mderg Respect the hammer don't die No interest into the answer to a rather pointless question, and he openly delegates responsibility for his decision before dropping the hammer. I'd lynch him just based on this. | ||
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On July 16 2014 19:12 Forumite wrote: Vivax, why were you gone? Is it relevant? If I'm scum who suddenly stopped playing the game for some reason, then I will just make up the reason. If I had a good reason, you got no way of confirming it and I will just waste time explaining it. I'd rather have you judge me for what I actually contribute to solving the game. | ||
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On July 16 2014 20:05 Koshi wrote: Vivax, bro, Just try to find the scummers for real and then we lynch you. Found Damdred already, at least I'm rather sure that the way he handled mderg is the way a scummer would handle it. That question to mderg was just feigned, and his hammer wasn't confident. He had to look like he had some doubts, like he was trying to figure him out, hence that question. But the question wasn't important. He didn't let it flow into his reasoning, and the reason he hammered, so he claimed, was cause of the pressure from the others. Which is not what you would say if you truly were sure that mderg was scum. And I want you to agree with this cause it's really obvious, regardless of whether I get lynched or not. | ||
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On July 16 2014 20:40 Koshi wrote: Look Vivax. My bestest friend. You let 2 misslynches happen D1 and D2. You didn't push these lynches, you let them happen. You were afk for too long but for some reason nobody cared. Tons of people have scumreads on all the other people that are afk, yet people are hesitant to lynch you today. Now that you are here, you can not make me forget you abandonned me in this thread. Therefore, please find all the scummers, I think 3 are left. Or maybe 4 and there is no sk but that is unlikely. And then you can die with dignity. But we can't simply not lynch you. I hope you understand. I can't not let a lynch just happen when the opposite would be to stop the lynch from happening, which I wouldn't have done cause I was believing that those were the best lynches at the time. This is why the arguments you and SlOosh use suck balls. You are saying I'm scum for not being able to see that those guys were town, cause that would be the only case in which I would not let these lynches happen. The other argument part of that mindset is that I didn't start those wagons, implying that such a thing is scummy in itself. These are all awful arguments, maybe useful for pushing my lynch, but not a valid way of discerning my alignment. The one and only thing behind all this wagon on me is Vivax afk for too long = scum. Everything else is either a pile of confirmation bias or something purely designed to get me lynched, I'll take a closer look at what it is for the individual players behind it when I'm fully caught up. In the meantime: ##Vote Damdred | ||
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On July 16 2014 21:35 layabout wrote: that's not a fair assesment you weren't involved when you were here but you were active, you clearly aren't invested in trying to figure out the game whilst when you roll town you quite clearly are. Provide your point with quotes from my filter and comment on the post I made about you please. | ||
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On July 16 2014 21:41 layabout wrote: no i don't need to my point is valid without window dressing Layabout, you didn't push those lynches hard enough. You weren't involved into the D1 lynch at all. You posted a lot of arguments for people being scum purely based on arbitrary wagon analysis without keeping it in consideration for later. You have shown to waffle on my read. Sentence 1: What you are saying about me. Factually unproven since you refuse to provide evidence. Sentence 2: Correct, you claimed to have a hangover or something like that. Sentence 3: Correct as pointed out by my quotes. Sentence 4: Correct as pointed out by my quotes. Any sane town will see this. Now, 2 doesn't make you scum on its own, but it's what's being used against me in its basis. 1 is purely subjective and can't be proven by quotes, cause the degree of my involvement varies from game to game, and is based on a standard you are setting after entertaining the notion that I'm scum for my absence. 3 and 4 however need explanations you are refusing to share, cause they show that you might make up arguments on the go without applying them to your hypothetical figuring out the game. | ||
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On July 16 2014 22:02 Koshi wrote: So you are going to find 1 scum? Are you stupid? | ||
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Fuck off seriously. | ||
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Good job if you managed to have 16 pages of filter as scum. | ||
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On July 16 2014 22:27 Koshi wrote: Hmm. I can't do that as scum. You know that. But you are completely right I am trying to do those things. But I don't want to use it against you. tbh I was truly going to swap to Damdred btw. pinkyswear. But if he flips town you understand that I can't do anything else but spam for 100 pages in the night that you need to be lynched. You understand and accept this right? No, I don't understand and don't accept it. If I have good reasons to think somebody is scum and so does every guy accepting my reasoning and voting for that lynch, then my reasoning was understandable and that guy made me read him wrong. The trick lies in figuring out if the reasoning is genuine or not, and in this case I think the reasoning is correct, and I guarantee that it's genuine. The question to mderg was bullshit, and the followup was bullshit, and it's there for the world to see. On July 15 2014 13:55 batsnacks wrote: INFORMATION: There is at least one more operator. That operator connected me and ritoky last night. Ritoky is mafia. Has this post been discussed already? | ||
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On July 16 2014 22:35 yamato77 wrote: I'm not at all convinced that damdred is mafia at this point Then convince me that he's town. | ||
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On July 08 2014 07:09 Damdred wrote: lol i take it i'm the scum read that wants to proove himself lol gg This post is just so ambiguous. Not only doesn't he wait to see who Koshi meant, he relates it to himself and finds it funny for some reason. On one hand he thinks he's scummy to Koshi for some reason, on the other he reacts so chill and jokes around, calls gg. If I were to think that this dude was town then it would be for this post, for example, although I have trouble spelling out why, prolly cause he seems so carefree. On the other hand he didn't seem carefree at all when he hammered mderg. | ||
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On July 16 2014 23:16 Koshi wrote: Alakaslam said Damdred was scum for that post. I agree. It was quite obvious I meant Forumite there. Idk, it's just a weird reaction to thinking that somebody is calling you scum. At least not something I experienced so far. "lol gg you caught me", "oh it wasn't me, oh well, see ya then". | ||
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It sucks that he never played scum before, so I don't know how to spot differences in his play, and frankly I don't think your arguments are good, yamato. Looks more like shitflinging than an actual explanation for why he's scum. However in Order he had like 10 pages of filter after 10 days of game if I'm not mistaken so I can tell that he's being less active than his usual self in that game. I wouldn't put all my eggs into the activity basket though. Activity analysis should be done based on timings, not just posting volume. We have to know what that batsnacks ritoky shit was all about. A joke? A reaction test? Serious turned into non-serious?Anyway I feel that part hasn't really been touched yet. Damdred gave up cause I posted a case on him that he felt was similar to prplhz, prplhz died without claiming anything as opposed to VE and sinani. It's like this guy thinks he's superscummy in whatever he does. Koshi talks about a scumread, he thinks he's the scumread. He hammers mderg, it's cause the others want it. I post a case on him, he goes all "fuck it lynch me". I prefer a Damdred lynch over an Exo lynch, I'd rather have a talk with that dude first since I just won a lylo with him, he talks but you have to pull it out of him, he's a bit like hopeless1der in that regard. I'll leave my vote where it is and go to sleep before I die from being so tired. Won't be there to change your mind if you decide to lynch me, and I still feel I have to read more but in case I'm dead by night, you know my thoughts. And get layabout to answer those damn questions please. | ||
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On July 17 2014 00:09 Damdred wrote: Not really i've been fighting the same stuff for a few days now. My answers haven't changed and i'm tired of fighting tbh if we lynch me ok at least everyone can focus on finding scum instead of the few people who are tunneling me and not finding scum. Well if you're town then the scum is somewhere else and you can find it. Even if it were me, I would probably not be the only one left so try to figure out who else it could be. | ||
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On July 17 2014 00:19 yamato77 wrote: scum does not respond as damdred is responding here IMO Can you go into detail? My other bet for scum would probably be SlOosh cause of the way he went from a ritoky>Hiro>Damdred preference to ONLY having a boner for my lynch when you brought me up as lynch first. He was either super convinced by your argument, his own, or he saw the window to get me lynched. Else I don't see why he considers three alternative scummers when a wagon isn't up yet for one of them, but only sees me as scum when a wagon is available, or at least a wagon that would potentially be pretty strong if pushed by you and Koshi who have shown quite some effort and success in guiding the town, or misguiding it, but it really is unlikely that Koshi is mafia (he's still a dick for pissing me off). All his arguments about me having low involvement could have been easily made before I afked for such a long time, and let's face it, that is the only reason for me being brought up as suspicious, anything else was just some sort of topping. And well, I'd like to hear more about this batsnacks ritoky thingy. I feel like something important might have been buried there. | ||
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On July 09 2014 13:43 Damdred wrote: I'm going to put a vote up, and i'm going to vote for ##Exo_. Even though he has a history of lurking as a villager and not engaging with others especially early on, in my experience with him he usually isn't combative. And in the few things he has written he has come off as confident more so than is normal for him being a townie. This read? Did you ever see him playing scum to say that he's more combative than his usual self? I doubt it, at least not on TL where I can't see him having played any games as scum. Even now that he has been brought up by yamato you could be discussing him, but you still prefer to martyr :/ | ||
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On July 17 2014 00:40 Damdred wrote: You mean....like how i've already said the way exo is playing is weird for him and feels a bit scummy? Like here...not even to many pages ago No offense viv are you even reading me or just pushing me right now Well, now you reply. So I don't see what's stopping you from replying to the mderg stuff but not to this one. Except that you can find an argument to defend yourself from what I just said but not from what I said about you and the mderg hammer. That might be one reason. Like, I don't understand why now you stopped martyring, while when you saw my case you started with that. No, actually I do. Maybe you realized by now that it isn't as bad as it looks for you, like those kind of bloopers earlier where you thought that you were scummy to others, but then it kind of turned out alright. So, what do you say to yamato's option of lynching ExO? | ||
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On July 17 2014 00:52 Koshi wrote: Vivax do you think there is any chance scum has 2 nk? In a game of this size it's likely, unless there are multiple factions. In the former big games it was mostly number of scum/2 rounded up I think. | ||
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On July 17 2014 01:01 Koshi wrote: ... But the night kills really don't support that. Are you the SK? This is a closed setup without notifications. I don't know how you can conclude 100 % something from the nightkills, although it might be I don't know as much as you cause I still have to read stuff from some flipped players. I still have to take a look at the nightkills properly, today I simply posted about the stuff I found scummy while catching up, although I ended up with reading in a pretty scattered way and not getting a complete picture, but at least I found some interesting bits. And no, I'm not the SK and I wouldn't tell you if I were  | ||
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On July 17 2014 01:13 Toadesstern wrote: voting damdred for now, havne't read the last 4 pages but looked over them real quickly and saw Vivax all in all. ##vote Damdred seems legit | ||
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Vote for the guy you think is scum. From my hopefully not too limited view the most scummy guys are Damdred and SlOosh, and I still didn't hear a proper explanation for why Damdred is town even though a few guys claim he is, or is it just yamato? | ||
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##Vote Exo | ||
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On July 22 2014 06:14 IAmRobik wrote: vivax, you made some stupid post where you said "i'm j/k" and I thought you were being sly and claiming jailkeeper and not just honestly saying "i'm just kidding". Please to not be tricking me like that again Lol I realized that's why you townread me. It was totally not intended though :D, but I'll take what I can. BM mvp for spreading chaos and getting away with it, I'd have probably read him as too insane to be scum. | ||
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Vivax
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On July 22 2014 06:23 marvellosity wrote: BM would have been modkilled for posting after hammer if we allowed the ExO lynch. That was the choice we had. I don't mean based on Palmar's decision, cause his decision was that the votes didn't count. I mean, if the votes were formatted correctly and counted before BM could post, and Exo got lynched and flipped VT, then town would have lynched BM's ass the next day I think. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
On July 22 2014 06:40 Koshi wrote: Everybody knew Exo_ was town because you tried to hammer him. So... I don't see the difference. The difference is that in case of lynch it would have been BM's fault and in case of what actually happened then BM even helped you townread him and got away with even more, and had no fault for anything except lying. | ||
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Vivax
21959 Posts
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Vivax
21959 Posts
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