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Remember to post respectfully, but feel free to voice how you actually feel about the change |
On May 28 2014 11:29 Steveling wrote:I will now reveal that my claim was fak... Nope, wait. I will now reveal a series of pm's between me and shiaopi in our last game. me< http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=179#3564?????????????? Sub me out pls.> shiaopi<are you serious? cannot find anything offensive directed against a player specifically in there..> me<What does the "fuck your mother" part mean according to you?> shiaopi<That was not directed at anyone. It was bad language yes, but as he did not direct it at anyone I see it as a random explanation that slam decided to share. If you wish to be replaced, fine but I do not see this as valid reason and will seek an appropiate sanction in the banlist afterwards. I can talk slam to reduce posta like these but that is all I will do. > Random explanation that he decided to share, )))))). Gotta love this hosting.me<So if I quote his post and similarly use a heavy curse towards no one that would be fine as well? Cause I'd like to do that.> shiaopi<he was explaining hijole and used an example to say what is offensive and what is not(hijole is not) I saw hijole as a comment to one of your posts not the fuck your mother part. So if you wish to explain a specific term with heavy cursing feel free to do so.> me<Are you playing dumb or? I don't understand you. Thanks for hosting. I'll keep playing.> shiaopi<Look I am not playing dumb, this is my point of view and I assume it is shared by many others since you are the only one out of all players/hosts to have an issue with this post. I don't understand what your problem is and I don't have to put up with this tone from you. If you have an issue with my hosting, feel free to get out of the game any time you want to.> Yeah I'll feel free to get out of the game after you threatened to temp me in the previous pm. Smooth.
##bote: shiaopiThis mentality is gangrenous and needs to be cauterised. Also the whole "IM A VET AND YOU SHOULD LICK MY BALLS" thing, pls cut this crap.
lol
and this is basically why no rules should be changed.
thx for providing a great example.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
yeah not sure what that shows other than that ShiaoPi was completely reasonable at every turn.
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United States22154 Posts
On May 28 2014 18:37 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 18:36 marvellosity wrote:The people's revolution is coming...  I have never been more in agreement with marv. Feels weird as shit.
Let me clear up one thing right now. I'm here because the community wants me. If you want to find another banlist moderator, make a thread, get a majority of the population of tl mafia to vote to get rid of me, and find someone to take over the responsibilities. Regardless, stop behaving as if I'm some kind of authoritarian dictator in my tower, feasting while the masses starve. I check tl mafia daily, and skim most of the active games. PMs almost always reach me, and I'm actively involved with helping people balance setups, so saying I'm uninvolved is disingenuous.
A few other point of note the bear mentioning. this wasn't my decision. Foolishness came to me and said this was something that might be good for tl mafia. I agreed. He then spoke with the hosts, who as a group decided that they wanted to enforce these standards more in their games. As you guys should be aware, because I've only said it about 100000000 times, I generally don't make rules on tl mafia, I enforce the rules of tl and the will of the hosts. You know, the people who are running the games you're in. This wasn't some unilateral decision by foolishness and I, where we decided to do this because "why the fuck not!". This is basically a PSA saying "the hosts have agreed to enforce this". If I wanted to shove this change down your throats, I would have simply told the moderation staff that TLMafia needed to be held to the same standards as the rest of TL, and let Kadaver run rampant. Since we *are* a community, I thought some level of communication, where everyone knows what was decided is best.
Finally, behavior *does* have to change. Players don't leave from a single post, like DP was suggesting, its rather a constant wear that results in them just not wanting to put up with it anymore, its a constant abrasion. You can also look at all the newbie games where newbies were excited to play in "real" games, played in one, and never came back. There's also a problem of image. I want to promote TLMafia more, using TL resources, like twitter, crossposting to LD etc. If I start doing that, and the first thing newcomers see is someone calling someone else a retard, how likely are they to stay? Is that holding this subforum to the standards the rest of tl has? TL has thrived by being a selective community.This means that people who aren't willing to follow the rules are out. Yes, it means fewer members sometimes, but it means people we want to be members. This isn't new, zorkmid got banned because we don't want people ruining games, other people have been banned because we don't want them smurfing into newbies. So saying "rules exclude people" isn't an actual argument, its exactly what rules do, they force people to adapt to them or make them leave. The argument that you can't make people nice doesn't hold any water either, the goal isn't to make people better human beings, its to stop them being dicks to other people. It works, its what makes LR threads readable, its what makes the TL Strategy section actually good.
The bottom line is this, nothing is going to change insofar as I'm not going to be going into threads pruning for bad posts, I'm not going to hang out waiting to swoop down and ban people. Hosts will continue to request bans, and I'll continue to moderate them, the difference is hosts will be more active about behavioral issues, and generally saying on top of ad hominem.
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Another nice thing would be to give more fun roles to newbies.
scum/blues/3rd party etc, let the best veterans be vanilla since this is actually both the hardest and the most boring role which requires commitment.
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I would like to request a list of hosts agreeing to this.
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I think if hosts want to modkill for spam / caps / ad hom that's great if they choose to do so. However I don't think we need to go all ban list for slips in a game where those rules are going to be highly enforced since people tend to fall back on their habits or lose their cool in the heat of the moment.
Therefore I propose we separate the concept of bans and modkills in our minds. Modkilling someone who wants to play is probably punishment enough when their grievous fault is posting too much or using "SHOUTING TEXT!" or a clever joke picture / video. Disrupting the game after being modkilled is another issue entirely, of course. Not every offense of the nature of these newly-reaffirmed rules needs to result in a ban.
If When marv calls me a fucking retard (probably rightly so) I don't expect him to get banned for a game unless he's really laying it on thick. If the rules say he gets modkilled, I guess that's what's going down.
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foolishness rarely hosts or plays. how does he know what's going on?
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Guys you really have zero legs to stand on bashing gmarshal and foolishness. If they don't play as much as they used to, it's only because they like the rest of us have gotten older and more responsible. They do a great job moderating this forum under the guidelines we (the community) laid out for them.
Not to put words in either of their mouths, but to me it seems that despite both of their being displeased and partly pushed out by the meta and pace trends of the game they've stuck to principles of broad host autonomy and minimal mod intervention, and calling them a "junta" or a dictatorship is absurd. They haven't even implemented these rules unilaterally yet despite having good justification to do so. All they've done is exactly what we have asked them to - run the banlist and game queue, and for gmarshal be the tlmafia community's liaison to the site admins. Like, imagine if gmarshal wasn't involved with tlmafia - you'd have site bans any time someone got offended and hit the report button, or whenever an other mod happened to click on one of our threads.
Pretty low, guys.
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On May 28 2014 23:27 ObviousOne wrote:
I think if hosts want to modkill for spam / caps / ad hom that's great if they choose to do so. However I don't think we need to go all ban list for slips in a game where those rules are going to be highly enforced since people tend to fall back on their habits or lose their cool in the heat of the moment.
Therefore I propose we separate the concept of bans and modkills in our minds. Modkilling someone who wants to play is probably punishment enough when their grievous fault is posting too much or using "SHOUTING TEXT!" or a clever joke picture / video. Disrupting the game after being modkilled is another issue entirely, of course. Not every offense of the nature of these newly-reaffirmed rules needs to result in a ban.
If When marv calls me a fucking retard (probably rightly so) I don't expect him to get banned for a game unless he's really laying it on thick. If the rules say he gets modkilled, I guess that's what's going down.
Host puts up a list of rules in their OP. if you don't follow them and get modkilled, then there should be consequences.
All the banlist is is a list of people who haven't followed rules. Hosts can choose whether or not to follow the banlist. But it exists to give players an incentive to follow the rules the hosts lay out.
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On May 28 2014 23:54 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 23:27 ObviousOne wrote:
I think if hosts want to modkill for spam / caps / ad hom that's great if they choose to do so. However I don't think we need to go all ban list for slips in a game where those rules are going to be highly enforced since people tend to fall back on their habits or lose their cool in the heat of the moment.
Therefore I propose we separate the concept of bans and modkills in our minds. Modkilling someone who wants to play is probably punishment enough when their grievous fault is posting too much or using "SHOUTING TEXT!" or a clever joke picture / video. Disrupting the game after being modkilled is another issue entirely, of course. Not every offense of the nature of these newly-reaffirmed rules needs to result in a ban.
If When marv calls me a fucking retard (probably rightly so) I don't expect him to get banned for a game unless he's really laying it on thick. If the rules say he gets modkilled, I guess that's what's going down. Host puts up a list of rules in their OP. if you don't follow them and get modkilled, then there should be consequences. All the banlist is is a list of people who haven't followed rules. Hosts can choose whether or not to follow the banlist. But it exists to give players an incentive to follow the rules the hosts lay out.
But what if they're little felonies?
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You must understand that this is not new set of rules per se, it is more like a new guideline for hosts and players. Like a big PSA: your behaviour, which was tolerated before might be bannable now. We are going to moderate our games stricter and modkill people more often. That is all. If you do not go over the line you are fine. If you get warned and play less abrasive, you are fine. If you get warned and still keep going at it - you are going to get banned. Respect others and it is going to be all good.
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On May 28 2014 23:58 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 23:54 strongandbig wrote:On May 28 2014 23:27 ObviousOne wrote:
I think if hosts want to modkill for spam / caps / ad hom that's great if they choose to do so. However I don't think we need to go all ban list for slips in a game where those rules are going to be highly enforced since people tend to fall back on their habits or lose their cool in the heat of the moment.
Therefore I propose we separate the concept of bans and modkills in our minds. Modkilling someone who wants to play is probably punishment enough when their grievous fault is posting too much or using "SHOUTING TEXT!" or a clever joke picture / video. Disrupting the game after being modkilled is another issue entirely, of course. Not every offense of the nature of these newly-reaffirmed rules needs to result in a ban.
If When marv calls me a fucking retard (probably rightly so) I don't expect him to get banned for a game unless he's really laying it on thick. If the rules say he gets modkilled, I guess that's what's going down. Host puts up a list of rules in their OP. if you don't follow them and get modkilled, then there should be consequences. All the banlist is is a list of people who haven't followed rules. Hosts can choose whether or not to follow the banlist. But it exists to give players an incentive to follow the rules the hosts lay out. But what if they're little felonies?
Small temp ban. )))
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Will jub-jub fall out of the lexicon?
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Folks
All you all, you just want to be deezer
You know it's true
& u want the bamcis of stimey d okmg fish behind your martyr
What is STOOPID about this, is all that is happening would likely affect 1 dude
Es yo, hombré. Porque yo USO español mucho.
& the youtubes & stuff. You all, you people don't do that.
All you do is "u suk @ lyfe"
.........
Oh, I guess that's worse...
And why do you need to do that again?
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if you dont tell them they suck at life, how will they know to stop sucking?
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On May 29 2014 02:58 kushm4sta wrote:
if you dont tell them they suck at life, how will they know to stop sucking?
Same way everyone else knows to stop sucking... You explode in their mouth.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Look, this whole post could have just been worded like:
"In light of recent behaviour i've asked the hosts to be a little bit stricter in terms of aggression and spam! They will warn you first and then if it continues you will be modkilled. Everything is at the hosts discretion but I have told them to be a little less leniant. We'd like more people to join and we want to start posting games to show off the fun we can have. In order for them to do that our games need to look a little more refined than current standings."
Nobody would have many problems with that ^ but the OP was worded so that every bit of aggression and caps lock and anger would not be tolerated at all. Even contemplating about TL bans...? So pretty much NOTHING is changing but the hosts being a little more pro-active in behaviour warning and that's it.
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On May 29 2014 02:58 kushm4sta wrote:
if you dont tell them they suck at life, how will they know to stop sucking?
This is precision but you word it differently
"You need to reconsider the thinking behind your actions. I am suspicious that the root of your problem is internal, and you need to address this because currently I suspect you experience failure everywhere.
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EPT
