Detention Mafia

On May 27 2014 09:36 slOosh wrote:
Aww man was doctor ...

On May 27 2014 09:38 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Should we introduce ourselves again in this thread for simplicity's sake?

On May 27 2014 09:41 slOosh wrote:
My bad.

Roleblocks should always be announced. So should doctor saves if you are saved.

On May 27 2014 09:58 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
I sincerely apologize for my mistake.
Greetings again people.

On May 27 2014 10:14 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
I'm fine, thank you, and you?

On May 27 2014 10:17 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
tbh, I'm the reason we're in detention, so I have a lot of pressure on me to carry town to a win now.
So I'm not fine, I'm under pressure.

On May 27 2014 10:56 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Aren't we only supposed to discuss mafia or whatever?

On May 27 2014 10:58 sqrtofneg1 wrote:

???

On May 27 2014 11:02 jabberwockzerg wrote:

You should speak of the mafia only in euphemisms. Say the M-word and you're done for.

On May 27 2014 11:06 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Anyone?

On May 27 2014 11:15 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Well, to be fair, I'm a bit confuzzled (is that the right word?) too. Golden sun ends, and so does classroom, and now this.

On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town.

On May 27 2014 11:22 sqrtofneg1 wrote:

Nope. Last game, you, amiko, and epi was mafia.
Zat counter point is invalid.

On May 27 2014 11:24 jabberwockzerg wrote:

Didn't realize that was public information
My bad

On May 27 2014 11:25 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
I like your creativity, bunniez, with your euphemisms.

On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town.

On May 27 2014 11:43 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
I don't like how jabberwockzerg was thrown off of his alphabet game thingy when he got called mafia. It looked to me like he was a deer in headlights there.

On May 27 2014 11:47 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Do you guize want to make up these little rules for the people who are not yet here?

On May 27 2014 11:49 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
It really iz.

On May 27 2014 11:50 jabberwockzerg wrote:

Clearing this up, I didn't mean mafia specifically, just non vanilla. Was this bad wording? Yes. Stupid of me? Yes. Learning experience, definitely

On May 27 2014 11:55 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
You know what? I think that bunniez has the easiest rule so far.

On May 27 2014 11:56 HaruRH wrote:


I think that doing anything else other than leaving the subject as it is will make you an even likelier target for scrumm. Change the topic quickly

On May 27 2014 11:59 sqrtofneg1 wrote:

You could just say 'scum'.
Just sayingz.

On May 27 2014 12:01 HaruRH wrote:


Nothing to do with it at all, just a crap post with no meaning other than for jabber to not feel so awkward with every post he makes

On May 27 2014 12:04 jabberwockzerg wrote:

You're doing an awful lot of finger pointing for day 1

On May 27 2014 12:07 HaruRH wrote:


I play with no targets in mind
For the first day where it is still fun
I only suspect
But I do not attack
I will not paint a target on the first day
Because tails only show at night
And thus we can hang those who
Are deduced to be one next day
No need to pressure in the first day, in my view
Lynching him is still our aim, thus I will

On May 27 2014 12:14 HaruRH wrote:


You dont want to seem beating the chess game ON THE FIRST MOVE though. Just throwing that out

On May 27 2014 12:15 jabberwockzerg wrote:

If we're both mafia, wouldn't he have told me that in the QT?

On May 27 2014 12:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:

Given my noobiness, it just send like he's helping out

On May 27 2014 12:23 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Help, I forgot the alphabet
Sincerely thought d came after g.
I'm not a smart man

On May 27 2014 15:12 gobbledydook wrote:
Hm, bunnies' case against jabberwockzerg is interesting, but I'm not sure that logic necessarily stands. Specifically, bunnies discounts the possibility that jabber really didn't know who was mafia in the game he looked at and was just plain guessing, not knowing that everyone else knows the answer already. So I would be hesitant to read too deeply into that one lead.
Also bunnies, no coaching discussion t.t

So that's my take on the current lynch flavour of the day, conclusion, I don't think that's good enough to lynch. Would want to hear more from him.

On May 27 2014 18:34 Palmar wrote:
Ninjabunnies is mafia, I'm going to vote him. Then I'm going to read another page of the game.

##Vote Ninjabunnies

it's because he wrote "XD"

On May 27 2014 15:33 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh re: Alakaslam style of posting
Slam’s posting is usually fun, but occasionally frustrating since it’s not always clear what he means, so it can be hard to draw a read from that. I don’t think it is inherently bad

On Jabberwockzerg
I felt jabber’s first post was a bit odd because he copied his post from the prior game (where he was scum) and I feel like he might have a different opening if he was town.
I also think bunnies may be onto something, but I’m not sure if her post (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=6#106) realizes the more damning point or not (it’s sorta weirdly written) so I’ll write it just in case. To me, what is suspicious about jabber’s post is that he suggested a player was mafia last game, but he knew that the player was not mafia last game. In other words, he offered a scenario as a counterpoint that he knew to be false.
It’d be fine if he said he was just raising the point as a possibility, but his answer (that he didn’t know it was public information) doesn’t look so hot. I’m not convinced on him yet, but I want to pursue this.

@Jabberwockzerg: 27ninjabunnies has raised a point regarding your play that she argues shows you are mafia. You also posted that she was doing a lot of finger pointing on day one.
Do you think her point on you is good?
Do you feel that her raising that point makes her more likely to be town or mafia?

@fuba and @HaruRH: You joined the vote on jabberwockzerg. I understand that you agree with bunnies’ point on him – what do you think of jabberwockzerg’s responses after bunnies’ vote? Do they feel more town or scum to you?

aside
@HaruRH: This is not game-oriented, but I really like the “God Knows” song from Haruhi and love to sing it in karaoke :D

On May 27 2014 18:40 Palmar wrote:


Do you not think this is a valid case? At least you have to explain to me why you disagree. I think it's a pretty strong case. I should add that I combine it with the "ugh" from his first post, oh and his plea that "can we now hunt some scum?".

Seems pretty ironclad to me.

On May 28 2014 00:26 Palmar wrote:


He even posted in that QT, so he read it.



Well explain to me what your point was meant to accomplish? I'm all ears buddy.

On May 28 2014 01:14 jabberwockzerg wrote:

Lovely.
I was trying to get the game moving along, I was pretty pumped to start interrogating and scum reading, which isn't how I acted last game, when I was scum.
Lying about who was scum last game, I was trying to conceal information. I didn't realize that last game's roles were known, it would be beneficial for me if no one knew I was Mafia, just because there would be no real patterns of my play, and I could remain a wild card, which I thought could help me later.

On May 28 2014 01:24 mderg wrote:
I don´t like this lynch at all. I don´t see what he did as alignment indicative because it doesn´t really make sense as either town or scum. So why is it more likely to be done by scum than by town?


fuba: Weren´t you against this lynch? Why the vote on jabberwockzerg now?

On May 28 2014 01:45 mderg wrote:
Well, I don´t think his lie makes him scum. I honestly think scum would think more carefully about lying like that. I mean everyone who was on his scum team would have known he lied no matter what. So even if he didn´t know the scum team was made public, it would have been easy to see that he was lying.

On May 28 2014 01:53 mderg wrote:

This game hasn´t even been going for a day. So amiko not being active in this doesn´t mean it has to stay that way.

On May 28 2014 02:09 slOosh wrote:
Seems straightforward.

##Vote: jabberwockzerg

On May 28 2014 02:00 mderg wrote:

It might be a slip but I think it´s more likely that it´s not a slip and just bad play.

On May 28 2014 02:42 mderg wrote:


Are you asking about why it´s bad play or why i think it´s not scummy but bad play?

I´l answer both


I don´t think that makes him scum because even considering that he missed the alignments of the last game being published it´s not unlikely to be figured out that he lied. Unless he is scum with amiko or somehow knows that amiko won´t notice it there is quite a huge risk of the lie being discovered.

Why it´s bad play should be obvious with the situation he´s in right now. It makes him suspicious which he doesn´t want as either alignment.

On May 28 2014 02:43 fuba wrote:
It's in my filter, as well as something mderg mentioned recently...

His scummates from last game would know he was scum, regardless of whether or not the scumteam was revealed to all of us. Therefore, the lie would be caught for sure, unless the scumteam was exactly the same as last game, which I doubt XD

On May 28 2014 03:06 slOosh wrote:

This happens when people are talking about the case. You chose not to comment on it at all despite his play being "illogical to a clear extreme", and only now you jump on?

On May 28 2014 03:11 mderg wrote:

I think it´s good that you pointed it out but how everyone instantly jumps on him that´s what I don´t like.

On May 28 2014 03:40 Amiko wrote:
@bunnies: I wasn't here most of yesterday - you can trust this because I posted it in my short-lived mafia QT (perhaps the first time we can use 'scumconfirmed' information) :3 lol

Lemme see if I can find some questions for you, you should do the same

On May 28 2014 03:46 Amiko wrote:
@27ninjabunnies
This is just something I think is kinda weird as an observation, but not scum-indicative.

It’s strange to me that your early posts seemed to push against using the prior game for information.
However, you end up joining a case that is more or less based on the prior game (on jabberwockzerg).

Examples:
+ Show Spoiler +

Any comments?

I'll look for more in a bit.

On May 28 2014 04:30 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
What I don't like right now is that my readz may change greatly on whether or not jabber flips scum.

On May 28 2014 04:35 sqrtofneg1 wrote:

Nope.
Gobble has talked.
MZ has talked the least.

On May 28 2014 04:57 Amiko wrote:
(still replying to bunnies)

- Thoughts on bunnies' response to mderg
@27ninjabunnies: Not a huge fan of your posts responding to mderg.


I think this doesn’t address the more important point – whether the comment from jabberwock indicates his alignment. Mderg is saying that there’s a fair chance jabberwock’s comment would get caught, so mafia-jabberwock wouldn’t make the comment.
MDerg isn’t raising this in suspicion of you – it’s pretty immaterial whether you commented on it or not. The point he’s raising (which I think is fine, see prior post) is that he feels it is more likely to be a misplay or misstatement, rather than a scumslip.
I think your subsequent posts do not respond to that point, so I don’t really like your responses.

I guess I’ll mention I dislike a few of your other posts-

This is sort of doubletalk. To be clear, I am not really considering as a lynch possibility, however I figured this was a good time to note that post.

Thoughts on Fuba's uncertainty and defense of uncertainty on jabber?
I like fuba so far.
I always feel a little warm about someone who posts something I was writing just before I post it, and fuba did that earlier so that gave me initially good feelings on him.
Uncertainty makes sense. I think people can feel jabber is scum or town, so uncertainty feels reasonable. I don’t find his vote without explanation to be that meaningful. I feel like this is all stuff that we can reassess if jabber is lynched, but otherwise we need to get fuba to talk about some other points as well.

-------------------------

@fuba:
What are your thoughts on other players’ approaches to the jabberwock case?
Specifically, I’d like your thoughts on me / mderg / bunnies – comment on one or all, as you like.

On May 28 2014 05:23 Chromatically wrote:

My point was that sqrt previously did not have a scumread from that post, and now he wants to lynch jabber for that post with no additional justification, meaning that he's fabricating his read (I guess this is option 2). But, it is possible that he just reread it and changed his mind, as he says.

This was just one sqrt post I had a problem with, still want to lynch jabber by a long shot.


sqrt, is that jabber post the main reason why you are voting him? Like that's the best piece of evidence in your opinion?

On May 28 2014 05:40 Chromatically wrote:

I thought you were against using meta...

I'm not pushing him for a lack of explanation anyway, it's that his justification wasn't consistent with earlier. Do you think he's town?

On May 28 2014 06:55 sqrtofneg1 wrote:

Actually, yes, this is true.
According to my previous experiences (cruisette mislynch in liii, cav mislynch in liv, sweetfrost mislynch and yellow suspection in lv), most lynches like this end up being wrong.
My second scum choice is palmar.
##Unvote
##Vote: Palmar

On May 28 2014 08:11 gobbledydook wrote:
Well, did jabber just basically admit guilt?

Come on at least make an effort...

##Vote: jabberwockzerg

On May 28 2014 09:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
I'm just gonna go 1 by 1 and tell what I think of everybody so far
1) Chromatically
Thought his activity was suspicious at first, but rethinking about it now he doesn't seem too bad.
2) 27ninjabunnies
Playing hard, throwing around leads. She could be scummy, but I'm leaning towards town for her. Nothing she's said has jumped out as questionable.
3) Meapak_Ziphh
I agree with gobbledy, that his scatterbrainedness is more about a lack of confidence about his reads than scumm behavior.
4) gobbledydook
no reads
5) jabberwockzerg
That's me! Town, if there seems to be any confusion :D
6) mderg
Not really getting much.
7) HaruRH
Kinda defending me, which is cool of him. A real pal. Don't see why a Mafia would do that at all, so he's clean.
8) sqrtofneg1

and then following up with

just kinda seems like a half baked WIFOM attempt from mafia to my (admittedly untrained) eyes
also he has been throwing down a lot without following up on a lot. Probably my frontrunner for scum at this point.
9) slOosh
not getting much
10) Amiko
Good, high quality posts, but no read at this point in time
11) Alakaslam
no read
12) fuba
Defending me, which is great of him. No reason for a Mafia to defend me, so he's clean for me.
13) Palmar
A little scummy, which has been covered but not really at the forefront of my mind.

I'll be happy to answer any questions people have for the next couple hours and attempt to clear my name

On May 28 2014 09:28 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Bunnies, can you tell me what you think of mderg?

On May 28 2014 09:46 sqrtofneg1 wrote:

I like this post.
Here's his reason for concealing information: it would help him out in the long run.
I think he's town now.
##Unvote

On May 28 2014 09:53 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
He's new. That's why he thought concealing info would help.

On May 28 2014 09:56 sqrtofneg1 wrote:

True.

Well, what about my argument that all of these D1 wagons always seem to hit town?

On May 28 2014 10:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Cause I don't think it will happen.
And I also think there's a good chance that jwz is scum too.

On May 28 2014 10:41 sqrtofneg1 wrote:

Ask yourself that.
Also, why is your avatar still an scv?

On May 28 2014 10:45 sqrtofneg1 wrote:

Off topic, but that avatar thingy right next to your name?
Why is it still an scv?

On May 28 2014 10:48 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Have you never played starcraft?

On May 28 2014 10:51 gobbledydook wrote:
Chromatically I think his defense is pathetic and is trying to use noobiness as a cover.

On May 28 2014 10:55 gobbledydook wrote:

You get icons of higher tier units as your post count and time on TL increase. SCV is the shittiest tier for terran.

On May 28 2014 10:59 Chromatically wrote:
this is quite possibly the finest scumhunting tl has seen in ages

On May 28 2014 11:29 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
How did you get your name?

On May 28 2014 11:43 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Yes.

On May 28 2014 13:20 Alakaslam wrote:

I will translate to keep it from messing with anyone

The cottontails are really bad.

They are at my dad's ranch, death

More than 1,500.

Meaning: since age 12 I have been on the PrimusLabs shooters list for varmint control. To date I have killed over 1,500 rabbits- hares and cottontails both.

On May 28 2014 22:07 mderg wrote:

I don´t get how defending jabber like I did would make any sense, if we were both scum. That would be like the worst mafia play ever. Me being scum only makes sense, if jabber flips town. I could see mafia reasons for that. But hard defending a scummate who will almost certainly be lynched anyway doesn´t seem like scum play.

On May 29 2014 01:44 Palmar wrote:
Now that slam has explained to you why your case on me is incomplete at best but more likely invalid, do you want to stop calling me mafia?

This is a newbie game so I'm going to be real nice and explain why your thought process doesn't work.

My initial vote on Ninja was based on simply what I perceived to be a slightly different mood/tone from the first game. The "ugh" seemed to be genuine frustration followed just like 3 posts later by a "XD".

The last point of my initial case was what she asked "can we now hunt some scum" which I found in her filter and didn't know the context it was written in. I was assuming that she was asking people to scumhunt, instead of just doing so herself. However when I read the game I realized she was trying to shut down a really dumb tangent people were on.

If you can't tell by now, this case is obviously very flimsy and more of a prod than an actual case. If you read my interaction with gobble after that, it confirms my intention of opening a talking point.

When I came back to the thread, the Jabber thing had gone down, and Ninja made some post (I may have quoted it in myfilter, can't remember) that made me think she's probably town. So I retracted my scumread on her and focused on other things.

Does this explanation of events work for you?

On May 29 2014 04:07 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh:
I'm writing now and seeing what I find. I can post what I have and continue I suppose.
Btw I asked you for a read on Alakaslam a little earlier since a fair number of your posts seemed to focus on him, can you give me any comments?

@27ninjabunnies: Nothing personal bunnies, but I'm going to ignore that post unless you give me anything to write about :x

On May 29 2014 04:09 Chromatically wrote:
It's really simple: you figure out who's most likely to flip scum, and then you put your vote on them.

What we are not doing is starting a second wagon just for the sake of having another wagon in the hope that it will somehow "give more information".

However, if you now think that someone else is more likely to flip scum than jabber, please feel free to vote them instead and push them.

On May 29 2014 04:27 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
It might be beneficial if I didn't say this, but I think haru's blue.

On May 29 2014 04:38 sqrtofneg1 wrote:

???

On May 29 2014 04:46 Amiko wrote:
@Chromatically and @27ninjabunnies:
Would appreciate your comments on my post on HaruRH. Even if he isn't the lynch today, I'd like to see some discussion of it - I made some points here you can address (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=25#499) or raise your own.

On May 29 2014 09:10 jabberwockzerg wrote:
come on bold
##vote: Meapak_Ziphh

On May 30 2014 12:02 Amiko wrote:
@27ninjabunnies:
Please give me your read on slOosh.

On May 28 2014 03:01 slOosh wrote:

How is it straightforward for you when you dismissed the whole thing as meta?

On May 30 2014 12:02 HaruRH wrote:


Please look at palmar.

On May 28 2014 08:45 Palmar wrote:
MZ not everyone in the game is mafia. fuba and haru look bad, jwz is your most likely scumread and you could get behind a lynch on me, and now you're telling sqrtofneg1 that he might be mafia, while in the same breath explaining to him how he can get you to drop your "suspicion".

Welcome to my scum tier.

On May 31 2014 05:26 Amiko wrote:
@27ninjabunnies:
I was already sure I was going to make a case on slOosh when I asked you for your thoughts, but I was able to feel good about you as town for raising the points you did before I committed to the case.

On June 01 2014 12:49 Amiko wrote:
Ok. I mean generally I'd like everyone to comment on:
- Thoughts on day 2
- Thoughts on voting at the end of the day
- Any vote analysis thoughts you have
- Anything in the filters from slOosh/gobble that you find meaningful

If you have scumreads on M_Z / Palmar / whoever, weigh in and say if it has changed at all based on the stuff above.

And yeah we are in a great position with 8 town vs 1 scum, but please don't start making plans for the next few days when we have just gotten a fair amount of new information.

On May 30 2014 12:57 27ninjabunnies wrote:


Mmmk. So this is the first game ive played with palmer (outside of the cell mafia game we are playing right now)

I find it a bit weird he wanted to lynch me for putting XD. Even though he claimed it wasnt trolly, it seemed pretty much like he was trolling.

I find it even weirder gooble called him out for it. I thought it was funny. I find scum usually question more trolly stuff to try and push mislynches, so i would look at gooble for that.

Im feeling pretty town on palmer, he didnt just sheep my push on jabber, but he gave reasonings for it after, and questioned Jabber for it.

I think he points out a pretty good thing on MZ here:


And here

+ Show Spoiler +


Also, i find sqrts thing on palmer weird. He goes "palmer do more work" but palmer has done a lot of work. He has given reads, questioned things, and looks like he is trying to figure out the game,

I wouldn't lynch him today, but give a look at gooble and sqrt after reading this,

On May 28 2014 08:51 gobbledydook wrote:


Do you have anything more to add than I Agree?

Personally I feel MZ's bet hedging is more a case of not being confident of his reads more than him trying to scatter attention as a mafia.

On May 28 2014 08:51 gobbledydook wrote:


Do you have anything more to add than I Agree?

Personally I feel MZ's bet hedging is more a case of not being confident of his reads more than him trying to scatter attention as a mafia.

On June 02 2014 09:55 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
if alakaslam doesn't die he's scum.

On June 10 2014 17:29 marvellosity wrote:
modkill + non-existent cop check (this was really really criminally bad) + afk townie on last day made this game pretty... well, meaningless overall

gg