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United Kingdom36161 Posts
ok austin, I'll have this lynch without you, I don't need you. None of your defences suggest anything mafia-VE wouldn't do, in fact the things you are reading as townie are not in fact townie.
Active in QT -> doesn't have to be active in the thread, has to play with less people
Chat with Ace -> ??? just a nothing.
Has looked to solve the game while he wasn't afk -> literally totally untrue. He's done the opposite of that. He's not tried to solve anything. See 3-scumread post I quoted. Literally the opposite of trying to solve anything.
Refusing to answer why he has an unexplained townread on Oats -> yep, definitely not townie
Caller stuff -> likes to be right, ends up just going with the flow of the thread anyway (which was policy Caller). So he wants to be right and then caves to the path of least resistance because the thread says so. No bollocks.
Then his response to his case on me = "I am going to find mafia!" ----> "marv is mafia for no other reason than he thinks I am mafia" ----> "please guise vote for this dude, even though I have taken the really easy way out of doing no work and just omgus marv"
If you really think VE is a bad target, you're better off spending your time finding a good other target, because currently your defences are making me think VE is more likely to be mafia, because if these are the best reasons for VE to be town, then they're appalling.
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On May 09 2014 10:15 marvellosity wrote:
ok austin, I'll have this lynch without you, I don't need you. None of your defences suggest anything mafia-VE wouldn't do, in fact the things you are reading as townie are not in fact townie.
Active in QT -> doesn't have to be active in the thread, has to play with less people
Chat with Ace -> ??? just a nothing.
Has looked to solve the game while he wasn't afk -> literally totally untrue. He's done the opposite of that. He's not tried to solve anything. See 3-scumread post I quoted. Literally the opposite of trying to solve anything.
Refusing to answer why he has an unexplained townread on Oats -> yep, definitely not townie
Caller stuff -> likes to be right, ends up just going with the flow of the thread anyway (which was policy Caller). So he wants to be right and then caves to the path of least resistance because the thread says so. No bollocks.
Then his response to his case on me = "I am going to find mafia!" ----> "marv is mafia for no other reason than he thinks I am mafia" ----> "please guise vote for this dude, even though I have taken the really easy way out of doing no work and just omgus marv"
If you really think VE is a bad target, you're better off spending your time finding a good other target, because currently your defences are making me think VE is more likely to be mafia, because if these are the best reasons for VE to be town, then they're appalling. They're not appalling and you know it. He doesn't have to be active ANYWHERE, he's been inactive at times in the QT (last phase). But he goes and is actively poking at Foolishness and engaging him. That's townie activity.
As far as not trying to solve the game, what? "He's not tried to solve anything". He tried to figure out Foolishness and BH's alignments. He tried to figure out what their reads were on Caller and Palmar, and why. He tried/is trying to figure out why I wanted to lynch Foolishness, and how I feel about you. You pointing to a post or two where he DOESN'T TRY to figure out the game is nothing. If I go "there are a lot of balloons in this room", you can't point at a table and go "THAT ISN'T A BALLOON" when there are also 20 balloons up in the air. He hasn't tried to solve the game with every post, looks like. That doesn't change what he did with his other activity.
Refusing to answer the townread IS townie. Scum give crappy answers, get mixed up, whatever. Scum VE doesn't just ignore stuff for that long.
Likes to be right --> takes both sides of an issue. There's something wrong with that one. I can't quite put my finger on it. Unless Caller is both town and scum, I guess.
You're wrong here, and VE isn't the lynch, and he's pretty rightfully suspicious of you. I don't think you're a good lynch for today, neither of you are, but your push is bad. Not only are some of the things you're bringing up meh (koshi quote --> caller swap), but you're essentially saying "I just joined, and also I don't have access to everything VE has posted, but everyone should trust what I'm saying more than what the people that DO have access to VE's game are saying." I didn't trust Fool, now I know he's town, we both had townreads on VE, we both agree he was very townie in the QT. That's not everything, but it's enough that not just I should be looking elsewhere, but so should YOU.
Can anyone who wants to lynch VE raise both hands?
Can anyone who thinks VE is mafia, or thinks marv has a good case here, raise one hand?
I'm interested in talking to anyone who thinks the case is solid, that VE is the lynch today. My first question to you is going to be the balloon/table thing. I know you can't see all the balloons, but do you think that "The room is not full of balloons because here is a table" ("VE has not been trying to solve the game, here is a post where he doesn't") is a MOST AWESOME point? Other questions will follow, I really want to look into this and we can get peeps active and talking so yes it's lovely and talk to me yumyum.
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austin by far the mvp right now. So much sensible stuff.
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On May 09 2014 10:36 Ace wrote:
austin by far the mvp right now. So much sensible stuff. Any chance you got in-game reasons, not Dota 2 steam group related ones, for the swap on Palmar?
He's more likely to get lynched today than any other day, you could finally complete your glorious mission, but you seem to have abandoned the quest.
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Yea he could but I see Caller as a bigger scum possibility. Palmar has at least tried to figure the game out a bit (just like yours truly). Caller asking for massclaim when he knows better is much fishier to me.
Besides, I'm still not fully over Day 1 shenanigans.
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On May 09 2014 10:46 Ace wrote:
Yea he could but I see Caller as a bigger scum possibility. Palmar has at least tried to figure the game out a bit (just like yours truly). Caller asking for massclaim when he knows better is much fishier to me.
Besides, I'm still not fully over Day 1 shenanigans. I don't think the massclaim matters much. He knows it won't happen, and I don't share your coroner worries b/c as far as we know, there's only one shot left. If we've got a coroner, he's done his job, and any protective roles SHOULD have been on Cephiro last night, so it's likely that scum just has the 1 night kill, not that we've had 2 protects in a row before last night (possible double stack, i guess).
I just don't think a coroner gives much more intel at this point, or at least intel that's gonna be useful.
In the same vein I don't see a mass claim doing squat, there aren't any watchers/trackers to call people out on fakeclaiming VT, not really any benefit to claims. Given that scum just killed the cop, no coroner has claimed despite us having no flips for a while and likely having only 1 more max, and us having no protective roles (likely) if scum didn't double stack, I don't see any...scummy motive for pushing a fakeclaim.
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No, I think Caller fully believed that it would happen and was sincere about it. Otherwise he's just posting nonsense, which while funny and fits his theme, he isn't going to skate by all game. He's going to attempt to contribute and suggesting a mass claim would fit with that action. He may not have realized it doesn't benefit Town much, but that's to be expected from Scum Caller.
Coroner would flip the guys that got shot, giving us intel on the shooters too. The mass claim would benefit us as we'd have role and alignment information. With ?? on yamato and Koshi, Coroner solves them.
re: scummy motive for pushing claim - again. Imagine we all claimed right now. With two dead players we have no idea about who is the only one who knows their alignments for sure, and thus have a great guess to the motivations of the shooters? Mass claim completes the picture for Scum, it doesn't help Town at all.
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On May 09 2014 11:00 Ace wrote:
No, I think Caller fully believed that it would happen and was sincere about it. Otherwise he's just posting nonsense, which while funny and fits his theme, he isn't going to skate by all game. He's going to attempt to contribute and suggesting a mass claim would fit with that action. He may not have realized it doesn't benefit Town much, but that's to be expected from Scum Caller.
Coroner would flip the guys that got shot, giving us intel on the shooters too. The mass claim would benefit us as we'd have role and alignment information. With ?? on yamato and Koshi, Coroner solves them.
re: scummy motive for pushing claim - again. Imagine we all claimed right now. With two dead players we have no idea about who is the only one who knows their alignments for sure, and thus have a great guess to the motivations of the shooters? Mass claim completes the picture for Scum, it doesn't help Town at all.
scumslipscumslipscumslip
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*yawn*
us = Town obviously. Nice try.
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On May 09 2014 11:00 Ace wrote:
No, I think Caller fully believed that it would happen and was sincere about it. Otherwise he's just posting nonsense, which while funny and fits his theme, he isn't going to skate by all game. He's going to attempt to contribute and suggesting a mass claim would fit with that action. He may not have realized it doesn't benefit Town much, but that's to be expected from Scum Caller.
Coroner would flip the guys that got shot, giving us intel on the shooters too. The mass claim would benefit us as we'd have role and alignment information. With ?? on yamato and Koshi, Coroner solves them.
re: scummy motive for pushing claim - again. Imagine we all claimed right now. With two dead players we have no idea about who is the only one who knows their alignments for sure, and thus have a great guess to the motivations of the shooters? Mass claim completes the picture for Scum, it doesn't help Town at all.
Really Koshi is what matters
I am conftown so my motive being
PANIC!! PANIC!! PANIC!!
Doesn't matter.
If I count right, I have 3 left.
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oh yea, so then it gives us an answer to TehPoofter. Still awesome.
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A massclaim doesn't matter for that though, Ace.
All we need is a coroner to say "They were this alignment, I am coroner."
Also, how does...knowing the alignments of the no-flip players help mafia? They know who the traitor is. They know who the mafia is. By process of elimination, they can pretty damn near guess 100% of the townies. They already know everything, unless Koshi/Yamato had specific roles, and if they DID have roles, who cares, scum don't care, they're dead.
It's entirely the opposite. Mass claim (or really, just a coroner saying the alignments) reveals information to TOWN. Scum knows the alignments on those guys, town doesn't.
You cray.
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On May 09 2014 11:00 Ace wrote:
No, I think Caller fully believed that it would happen and was sincere about it. Otherwise he's just posting nonsense, which while funny and fits his theme, he isn't going to skate by all game. He's going to attempt to contribute and suggesting a mass claim would fit with that action. He may not have realized it doesn't benefit Town much, but that's to be expected from Scum Caller.
Coroner would flip the guys that got shot, giving us intel on the shooters too. The mass claim would benefit us as we'd have role and alignment information. With ?? on yamato and Koshi, Coroner solves them.
re: scummy motive for pushing claim - again. Imagine we all claimed right now. With two dead players we have no idea about who is the only one who knows their alignments for sure, and thus have a great guess to the motivations of the shooters? Mass claim completes the picture for Scum, it doesn't help Town at all.
Either caller is right or you need to read your posts before posting as this is a contradiction.
2 left.
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Sorry Austin. I trust marv more than you and will be sheeping him today. Even if Palmar convinces him to vote me.
The stars have really aligned in this game--- for once I actually have a strong town read on marv I have no reason to doubt AND I don't feel guilty or stupid sheeping him because all sorts of meh.
Maybe I will care more sometime tomorrow before deadline.
##vote: visceraeyes
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The second paragraph is talking about mass claim WITH a Coroner.
The third isn't.
On May 09 2014 11:11 austinmcc wrote:
A massclaim doesn't matter for that though, Ace.
All we need is a coroner to say "They were this alignment, I am coroner."
Also, how does...knowing the alignments of the no-flip players help mafia? They know who the traitor is. They know who the mafia is. By process of elimination, they can pretty damn near guess 100% of the townies. They already know everything, unless Koshi/Yamato had specific roles, and if they DID have roles, who cares, scum don't care, they're dead.
It's entirely the opposite. Mass claim (or really, just a coroner saying the alignments) reveals information to TOWN. Scum knows the alignments on those guys, town doesn't.
You cray.
Never said knowing the alignment of no-flip players helps Scum. Only knowing their roles does. If we were going to mass claim knowing roles that existed in the game helps fake claims.
And yes - Mass Claim helps Town with a Coroner available like I said before:
On May 09 2014 04:33 Ace wrote:
Caller should know better than to ask for massclaim in this setup without any Coroner reveals. Mass claim accomplishes nothing right now except give Scum easier night kill choices.
Caller didn't think of this.
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On May 09 2014 11:16 WaveofShadow wrote:
Sorry Austin. I trust marv more than you and will be sheeping him today. Even if Palmar convinces him to vote me.
The stars have really aligned in this game--- for once I actually have a strong town read on marv I have no reason to doubt AND I don't feel guilty or stupid sheeping him because all sorts of meh.
Maybe I will care more sometime tomorrow before deadline.
##vote: visceraeyes Do 'splain please?
I'm interested in the strong read on marv.
I'm mainly interested though in what specifically about the case you like, and whether you think "here is a post/are a couple posts where VE wasn't trying to solve the game (despite giving reads)" is a good counterargument to "VE has been trying to solve the game, here is a time in thread where he was trying to figure out the Caller/Palmar stuff, and he was trying to figure out Foolishness and BH in QT".
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Like...you're saying
"I trust marv's read on VE more than yours" or "I trust marv more than you"
but in the case, what you'd ACTUALLY need to be thinking is
"I trust marv's read on VE, based on just what VE has put in thread, over your read and Foolishness's read, both of whom had access to everything that VE has posted this game AND I trust marv's read on VE, but his read on me is butt he should be reading me town because of x, not be all wishy washy on me"
(Or, I guess "I trust marv working with partial information over you and Foolishness working with full information AND I trust marv's VE read despite thinking his read on my should be different than what it is")
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what is austin even pushing wave? I dont understand that last post. as far as im aware austin isnt pushing anything atm just not VE.
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On May 09 2014 11:25 austinmcc wrote:
Like...you're saying
"I trust marv's read on VE more than yours" or "I trust marv more than you"
but in the case, what you'd ACTUALLY need to be thinking is
"I trust marv's read on VE, based on just what VE has put in thread, over your read and Foolishness's read, both of whom had access to everything that VE has posted this game AND I trust marv's read on VE, but his read on me is butt he should be reading me town because of x, not be all wishy washy on me"
(Or, I guess "I trust marv working with partial information over you and Foolishness working with full information AND I trust marv's VE read despite thinking his read on my should be different than what it is")
You know who else had access to everything in a QT and still thought somebody in there was scum?
I can think of somebody.
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EPT
