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Sweet, I want to call attention to what I was talking about earlier. I noticed you have not responded to either of my posts to you, and I want to get your thoughts on this.
@Sweetfrost: I want to point out to you that in no way I was defending the vote on you. Please reread what I posted. I was curious as to why my initial vote on Yell0w, given with reason as to why I thought he was scum, was scummy when eden was just throwing random votes left and right, and not getting called scum for it. I'm trying to find who the mafia are, and Eden, well, not sure what Eden was doing except maybe get conversation going. I think he could have gone about it a better way, but yeah.
On April 30 2014 03:11 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 23:29 Sweetfrost wrote:
I also checked ninjabunnies filter and it seems you try way to hard to act the role of a Helix worshipper. Trying hard to win people to his side and even defending me when I get random voted which I appriciate but it also makes me suspicous that he is actually trying to win my trust. As soon as Yell0w became a suspect he has been pushing his guiltiness hard.
I'm not sure what to make of this yet but I have a feeling that either Yell0w or ninjabunnies could be scum. But only one of them. I want to also comment on this. I stated in previous post I was not defending your vote, you can read that for yourself. I don't see how I have been pushing guiltiness hard. I have claimed multiple times in this forum I pushed to get reads, and I got them. I even then went as far as changing my vote off of Yell0w. If I was pushing hard, don't you think my vote would still be on him?
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On April 30 2014 04:57 Sweetfrost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2014 04:40 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Other than your yellow read, what are your reads, @sweetfrost? Well as I stated I suspect Bunny being scum for his efforts of trying very hard to build up a positive relationship with everyone. See my previous posts. As for the rest I'm very unsure and still don't want to give a public opinion on anyone since it would just be misleading, I don't have an opinion on the rest yet. So the only thing I'm willing to say right now is that I don't trust Bunny and Yellow.
Also, you say you don't trust either me or Yell0w.
Do you think Yell0w and I are mafia partners, and if so what has pointed you towards that direction?
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On April 30 2014 05:06 Yell0w wrote:
@bunnies
He actually previously stated that you or me were mafia, but not both.
Oh yes, I know, I read that. But he jst said that he doesn't trust either of us.
hence my questioning to him.
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@Sqrt, and your thoughts on tamburini?
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If everyone would have payed attenion to my question, Sweet had said he didn't trust either Yell0w or myself. He thinks one of us is scum, but not the other. I understand that.
What I want to know is which one he thinks is more scummy? Why?
Also, the fact that sweet doesn't want to talk about anyone else puts me in suspicion.
@Sweet- There have been many contributors to this conversation. Amiko, Ahs, Epishade, Eden, Tamburini, Sqrt. Can you give any reads on any of them from how they have talked, interacted, etc?
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@Yell0w, I was just about to point that out, but you beat me to it.
So yes, Eden silent voted in the vote forum, and never placed his vote here.
I also want to point out he hasn't said anything since I answered him about tamburini and my suspect on him.
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On April 30 2014 05:20 sqrtofneg1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2014 05:11 27ninjabunnies wrote:
@Sqrt, and your thoughts on tamburini? {Possibly mafia. He pushed yellow first. His whole case against yellow is just strange. I don't like him.
Actually I pushed Yell0w first.
When I got off of Yell0w, tamburini jumped back on him
What do you think about this?
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On April 30 2014 05:26 ritoky wrote:
Well I feel awkward right now, since from what I can tell my reads as of now are contrary to the vast majority of people.
tamburini: I don't understand the majority of the hate in regard to tamburini. He declared himself the lead of the town with his first post, which you don't have to agree with and I certainly don't; but it places spotlight on him. From that post forward in the entire game he will be under a microscope, so either he is that confident in his scum play or has nothing to hide. As of now, I have no reason to believe he has anything to hide. I personally believe that if he is scum trying to insert himself into the leadership role that he will run himself into the ground eventually. However, what I don't get is why everyone dislikes his reason for voting on yell0w. Personally, with my read on yell0w, I think tamburini is mistaking scum for just bad play; but I wouldn't be opposed to lynching yell0w. To me, tamburini's point is that town should be concerned primarily with locating and lynching scum, and yell0w's primary concern was appearing town. Appearing to be town is mafia's job, not town's.
epishade: I have red flags all around epishade, and have for a while. I don't really like many of his reads at all, but before that happened he was deflecting hard for yell0w and trying to kill conversation. There are 22 pages in this thread and a lot of it is predicated on the conversation that epishade didn't want to even happen. As I said earlier, his posts read more genuine and open which buy back some of the scum feel, but my gut says otherwise.
bunnies: I have a fairly neutral read on bunnies as of now, leaning town. She is pushing discussion along, which increases the volume of information available (the opposite of what epishade was trying to do before) and to me is a town thing to do. I think what bunnies is doing is useful for town, which gives me a town read; but I am simply wary of people getting behind her on a BW, which will put her back toward neutral a bit for me until there's more to go off of.
yell0w: For me, yell0w reads odd for me. Almost as if the game started at 50mph and yell0w was still going 30mph. I think his joke response was neither here nor there for me, but I liked his conviction in defending it when pressured. Then he seemed to be overly concerned with perception and since then has given a lot of info that is piggybacking off of someone else, so he is moving back down my list. Wouldn't be opposed to a lynch.
sqrt: I don't know if it is a stylistic thing or what, but there's something weird here. Lots of prods, short comments, and question asking, not much in the way of legwork. Combine that with the lack of seriousness early on and it just strikes me as all very odd. I don't read him as projecting town in any way; whereas most other people I can read town aspects to what they do and say.
So, you are putting me more neutral because of a BW lynch? I'm not trying to get a BW lynch going. A BW lynch didn't even happen. I unvoted, and then ttamburini, and now Eden, have voted on Yellow. So the idea of a BW lynch is irrelevant.
Your reads, while have backing, are a bit odd to me, tbh.
I'll need to hear fro you more.
On April 30 2014 05:27 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2014 05:10 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Well, I'm willing to bet that scum team isn't bunnies + yellow or epishade + yellow. why couldn't it be epishade and yell0w? epishade was deflecting HARD for yell0w early on.
However, I do like how you pointed this out.
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On April 30 2014 05:45 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2014 05:35 27ninjabunnies wrote:On April 30 2014 05:26 ritoky wrote:
Well I feel awkward right now, since from what I can tell my reads as of now are contrary to the vast majority of people.
tamburini: I don't understand the majority of the hate in regard to tamburini. He declared himself the lead of the town with his first post, which you don't have to agree with and I certainly don't; but it places spotlight on him. From that post forward in the entire game he will be under a microscope, so either he is that confident in his scum play or has nothing to hide. As of now, I have no reason to believe he has anything to hide. I personally believe that if he is scum trying to insert himself into the leadership role that he will run himself into the ground eventually. However, what I don't get is why everyone dislikes his reason for voting on yell0w. Personally, with my read on yell0w, I think tamburini is mistaking scum for just bad play; but I wouldn't be opposed to lynching yell0w. To me, tamburini's point is that town should be concerned primarily with locating and lynching scum, and yell0w's primary concern was appearing town. Appearing to be town is mafia's job, not town's.
epishade: I have red flags all around epishade, and have for a while. I don't really like many of his reads at all, but before that happened he was deflecting hard for yell0w and trying to kill conversation. There are 22 pages in this thread and a lot of it is predicated on the conversation that epishade didn't want to even happen. As I said earlier, his posts read more genuine and open which buy back some of the scum feel, but my gut says otherwise.
bunnies: I have a fairly neutral read on bunnies as of now, leaning town. She is pushing discussion along, which increases the volume of information available (the opposite of what epishade was trying to do before) and to me is a town thing to do. I think what bunnies is doing is useful for town, which gives me a town read; but I am simply wary of people getting behind her on a BW, which will put her back toward neutral a bit for me until there's more to go off of.
yell0w: For me, yell0w reads odd for me. Almost as if the game started at 50mph and yell0w was still going 30mph. I think his joke response was neither here nor there for me, but I liked his conviction in defending it when pressured. Then he seemed to be overly concerned with perception and since then has given a lot of info that is piggybacking off of someone else, so he is moving back down my list. Wouldn't be opposed to a lynch.
sqrt: I don't know if it is a stylistic thing or what, but there's something weird here. Lots of prods, short comments, and question asking, not much in the way of legwork. Combine that with the lack of seriousness early on and it just strikes me as all very odd. I don't read him as projecting town in any way; whereas most other people I can read town aspects to what they do and say. So, you are putting me more neutral because of a BW lynch? I'm not trying to get a BW lynch going. A BW lynch didn't even happen. I unvoted, and then ttamburini, and now Eden, have voted on Yellow. So the idea of a BW lynch is irrelevant. Your reads, while have backing, are a bit odd to me, tbh. I'll need to hear fro you more. No, you misread that. I think that everything you're doing is very town thus far, but from my pov you have a lot of people putting their ducks in a row behind you very early on; which is something I am simply wary of. When the majority of people start agreeing on a lot of what 1 person says early on it either means that town is very right, or being helped down a bad path. So while I like what you are doing and am leaning town on you, I am simply wary. That is all. And what of my reads don't you like? We have the opposite opinion, from what I can tell, of what tamburini did. And I think it will take quite a lot to make me get over how hard epishade was deflecting and setting himself up in a contrarian position.
Sorry, let me explain. Your reads, while I think they are really good, just don't settle right in my gut. I could be wrong, and that's fine, hence why I think I need to get more of a read on you.
I am not intentionally trying to lead town down a wrong road. I am pressuring and asking questions I think is relevant to finding the mafia hiding among this town. I agree that having people agree behind me makes me a little wary, but mafia can easily buss their partner, especially when they feel they can't dig him out of the hole he buried himself in. I'm not saying yell0w has done so, or is for sure mafia, but this is what I feel.
and if so, it could be a epishade/yell0w team, if yell0w was mafia. Epishade hard defended, then pulled off his defense, as if he knew yell0w was going down.
Again none of these reads are for sure, but speculation.
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@Sweet- read the above post
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Okay, so I've read through some more.
@Sweetfrost/Ritoky
yes, I understand a gut read is something that people won't be behind. But I feel as if his reads are too good. Like perfect information good. And call me paranoid, cause I probably am. But it's scary how I pretty much agree with each of his reads, and yet he hasn't contributed much to the conversation until now with his interaction with Yell0w.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 30 2014 13:11 Amiko wrote:Catching up a little now before a late dinner and later bedtime  @27ninjabunnies on Eden (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=20#393) This isn't too important but it should be a quick clarification so I'd appreciate it if you did. Eden says you didn't fully answer his question ("What was your reaction test, and what did it teach you about the game state?") + Show Spoiler +On April 29 2014 11:55 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 11:47 27ninjabunnies wrote:On April 29 2014 11:42 Eden1892 wrote:On April 29 2014 11:40 27ninjabunnies wrote:
@Eden: Reaction testing: yes. Cunning: absolutely. Am I rescinding? No. So what did you learn from this? As I stated earlier, I don't like how he reacted. He claimed mafia, which yeah, I get seems trolly. And sure he may be town, but I've played games where a person has claimed mafia, even voted on themselves, and has lived til final mafia and won as mafia. So as of now, I don't like Yell0w, and until he proves otherwise, I'm keeping my vote on him. What did you learn from this? That you're new to forum mafia and have a chip on your shoulder. This doesn't tell me anything about either of your alignments. You seem genuine enough so far, so I suppose it's not all bad. But you didn't really answer my question. Maybe we're not referring to the same thing. What was your reaction test, and what did it teach you about the game state? I think these are the only posts you made between Eden raising the point (that you didn't answer his question) and him giving you a townread: (1) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=14#277(2) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=14#280(3) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=15#283I think these posts answered the first part (what was your reaction test?). I don't feel you answered the second part (what did it teach you about the game state?). If you did, could you just quote it and bold the language for me? As an aside, I think your post @Epishade was directed to Epishade, not Eden as you said here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=20#393) unless I'm misunderstanding... thew post begins with you answering Epishade's scumread. Were you referring to another post?
@ Amiko
On April 29 2014 12:01 27ninjabunnies wrote:@Eden: I'm not sure why you think I have a chip on my shoulder. I know no one in this game besides tamburini. I know no one's play of their mafia or town style. What I am doing here is trying to get reads. My reaction testing was seeing how Yell0w responded to my questioning. I will point out exactly what I said to him. You can check the nested quotes. Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 11:26 Yell0w wrote:On April 29 2014 11:23 27ninjabunnies wrote:On April 29 2014 11:21 Yell0w wrote:
I never actually played mafia, I play werewolf in real life, which is pretty much the same I guess, and I don't think him talking is indicative of him being mafia or not, I just think he likes talking.
May I point out to you I said this. On April 29 2014 11:13 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Also, @Yell0w
Do you feel mafia talks too much or too little usually?
Because, sqrt is making himself known to everyone. Would you think he would more likely try to blend in rather than stand out as mafia?
Also, include how much mafia games you have played. This will help me read your response to my questions. On April 29 2014 11:03 Yell0w wrote:
So this sqrt guy sure seems to enjoy talking, so he's probably mafia. Yet you don't think him talking a lot is indicative of being mafia? Contradicting yourself already? Ohhh! You got me, I'm mafia. That was his only response to that. He gave no other reasoning as to why his read was contradicting. He avoided the question. So that was my reaction testing.
As for my @Epishade post, it was directed to eden, but I messed up the names. Eden asked this
And my response was this
As for not answering the game state question, thank you for pointing that out, I actually didnt answer this. I must have looked over that question focusing on other things. I apologize.
But as the game state has changed since then, imo, I shall nt revisit that, but I can elaborate on the game state now.
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@Amiko
So are you saying he is scummy for calling me town, even if I didn't fully answer his question?
I'm actually not entirely sure where this conversation stemmed from, or where you are trying to go with this questioning. Maybe I have missed something from your posts, and I apologize.
It is pretty late, and I shall be hitting the bed soon. I know tomorrow, we need to make a lynch. Hopefully we will see more posts from the lurkers.
As of now, I'll try and post here and there if need be.
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On April 30 2014 14:19 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2014 14:07 Amiko wrote:
So, when Eden read you as his top town, he didn't have that answer from you yet. When he read you as his top town, he should have still thought you had not answered his question. When she told me that the vote wasn't part of the reaction test I decided her reaction test wasn't really worth looking at any further. It struck me as the prototypical "reaction test" inexperienced players tend to use, where they suspect someone already, press their suspect on a minor point and scumread the answer no matter what it is because of confirmation bias. I read her town at the time independent of that question and decided the question wasn't worth pursuing further, so I dropped it.
Hahaha, this made me laugh. Inexperienced. Not in the slightest.
It is a reaction test I have used many times and found mafia with it.
It wasn't that I immediately suspected him. I found a flaw in his posts, pointed it out, and he reacted badly.
I didn't scumread the answer no matter what as you put. I rescinded later in my read.
But I got the read from it.
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Okay, I just got home, so I am going to read what I have missed since I last posted. If anyone has anything they want to ask, or want me to focus on, let me know.
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Okay, I have read through these posts and these are my thoughts and what I wish to call attention to, so look out for your name and any questions I may have.
[b]Town[/b
Amiko- he has presented multiple posts of logic on whom he thinks is scummy and town. I liked his reads on tamburini as town, although I did not agree with them. Amiko seems as if he is trying to figure out the game and find scum.
Tamburini- So although I was reading him scummy at the beginning of the game, and him doing nothing to refute that, Im putting him in town because of the claim. As we have no counter claim (which I don't expect to get), our votes should be off of tamburini. I have a feeling that his claim will work itself out during the night. I also wouldnt place him a SK, the logic he presents just doesnt make sense as logic from SK.
Ritoky- While This post by ritoky was weird, I am putting him as town. I did not find at all that most people thought sqrt was mafia, though maybe I was reading into people's reads wrong. However, ritoky, minus this read on sqrt, has reads similar to mine, so I believe he is town.
]Mafia
Ahswinti- Gave this as a reason to vote tamburini, but basically he is sheeping off of Sweetfrost and Ritoky's reads, one of whom I find majorly scummy. I dont like that he hasnt contributed much to the game or anything, and would lynch him today in a heartbeat. However he did make a nice little summary post here
Sweetfrost- I just really really don't like this guy. I mean, he calls both Yell0w and I scummy, then votes on sqrt? You scared brah? Sqrt was a weird and random vote, and I felt his vote could have been placed outside on me and yell0w on someone a lot scummier.
Eden
Fence
Meat - This post by MEat made me laugh. Yes, definitely not tamburini's gf. However, I can see why he would sheep off of me. My reads are usually pretty good. However, I don't believe in the way tamburini is going, and therefore is why I pulled off of yellow. Meat, other than this post, hasnt really done much for me to place him as town or mafia, so he is fenced.
Sqrt-ill explain reads on him later. ISh...
Epishade- I like epishade's read on Sweet here. It is very weird how Sweet says that both Yell0w and I are scummy, but goes on to vote Sqrt, whom I havent really seen a reason of why we should vote on him.
Dfs- I do like his reads he proved on the bottom of page 26, however that seems to be all he has contributed. Will look more into tomorrow
Dravenor- Is it sad that I forgot he was in this game? I feel it should be.
I also want to point out that here Yell0w claims he is going to be the one shot, even though tamburini didn't out his shot. I know tamburini has been putting pressure on yell0w, but yell0w, what is your reason on this? Do you think there is someone else that tamburini can shoot? Cause I feel that if you are getting lynched today, I'm prewtty sure he has another shot in mind.
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Wait.... Meat got banned?! haha
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On May 01 2014 16:22 dfs wrote:
mtamburini's rolecall looks a lot like a desperation move to not get lynched today made too early.
The only way we'll know if he is town is if he (or sk) dies, because there is a sk possibility.
Who can kill him:
Actual sk - will not be interested in killing someone who can be suspected as sk.
Mafia - no reason for mafia to kill him if they have a roleblocker.
Vig - mtamburini can only die tonight if is getting shot by (another) vig, but no one called it yet, which is weird.
I don't see any outcome where he would get cleared as town the next day if he survives, or be of any use untill day 3.
If he is an sk - he will be able to do a lot of damage to town. If he is vig - he will not be useful until day 3.
He can even be mafia who gambled that vig would not call him out. (which is kinda stupid admitedly)
mtamburini with this rolecall put himself in a position where he can't be useful to town untill much later, because of all the suspicion of being sk he raised.
There is also a possibility that vig is nt claiming that way they can shoot tamburini at night without the chance of getting roleblocked, if tamburini's claim is false.
That would be the strategy I would use if I wa actual vig, and tamburini was not.
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@Amiko As a video mafia player, when you get formaled, and it seems as if you are about to get voted off, coming out as vigi is a protown move, so his claiming there makes sense to me. I, like you, am wary that he didn't defend himself more before coming out, but as it is near finals for most college students and tamburini is a college student, I can understand his claiming rather than defending. Idk if this is an actual reason as to why he didn't do it, I'm just assuming it might be.
Also, as a video mafia player, you usually dont claim who you are going to shoot for the reason that mafia could possibly double stack with you and cover your shot. For example, if I were mafia, and tamburini claimed he was going to shoot yell0w in the night, if yell0w was town, I could just kill yell0w in the night, making it seem like mafia were the only ones who shot, not the vigi, which gives mafia the advantage of lynching the vigi the next day.
So him not claiming who he is shooting also makes sense to me.
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EPT
