EPTMeat - mafia, untill shares more thoughts and becomes usefull
Amiko, Bunny - town
mtamburini, yell0w, sqrt - more suspicious than others
Newbie Mini Mafia LV - Page 27
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dfs
Russian Federation4050 Posts
Meat - mafia, untill shares more thoughts and becomes usefull Amiko, Bunny - town mtamburini, yell0w, sqrt - more suspicious than others | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Dravenor hasn’t posted much and I feel like he has some weird comments. A few things I would highlight as strange comments: On April 29 2014 14:18 dravernor wrote: I think we've been off to a pretty aggressive start already tbh. I now think I am going to be useless at this game because everyone and no-one looks scummy. I think the top two suspects here in my eyes are Epishade and 27ninjabunnies as they have been pressing and deflecting the most for what looks like an early lynch. But, the game is still young and I don't really know many of you yet, so I could be reading wrong completely. On April 30 2014 01:26 dravernor wrote: This all seems a bit of a mess and confusing. So many accusations flying around. I still don't see anything as overly suspicious behaviour, and it kinda scares me because someone here is hiding. My suspicion of Epishade and bunnies still stands though – They both seem overly aggressive/defensive, which may actually be a deliberate ploy to make each other both look like townies. As you can see sqrt has already cleared them form his list, and Yell0w too. I'd actually like some clarification on this please: (cut) The bolded sections are double-talk. Do these players look scummy, or do they not look scummy? Are these players aggressive, or are they defensive? I don't like these comments because they feel noncommittal and meaningless. He does give reads on Epishade and ninjabunnies, however, which makes the posts a little better. I do disagree with those reads, but dravenor made them earlier in the game so I don't find his view on them as different to be particularly suspicious. He didn’t followup on his read of Eden as he had indicated. Altogether Dravenor hasn’t commented enough that I can make much more of his posts than that. @dravenor: We need you to weigh in on some of the prevailing arguments. Obviously I care about your thoughts on Eden, but I think we should start consolidating a little. So, please talk about yell0w and mtamburini and the points made on the two of them. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
This one is pretty short. So far I like dfs' posts. I don't agree with dfs seeing sqrt as scummy from sqrt's reads. But I think that's a reasonable feeling for dfs to have. I don't know sqrt's scum play yet (I've only seen him play town) but I feel like in his prior games he posted some reads that were not very well explained and seemed confusing even though he was town. It'd be a mistake to give him a free pass, but it is something I will value a little less in evaluating sqrt. That said, I feel like without having read sqrt's prior games that feeling is legitimate so I like dfs for his suspicion of sqrt. Thinking through this, I feel a little bit better on SweetFrost who had a similar response to sqrt's reads. I still feel SweetFrost's explanation when voting for sqrt (numerous, short, prodding posts) is weird, though, since those qualities don't strike me as scum indicative. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I still want to comment on Eden's case on yell0w but I'd like to see mtamburini's response to it first. If anyone is in thread and doesn't know what to talk about, I think a good focus for now is yell0w/mtamburini. I'd also like people voting for mtamburini to give thoughts on this post I made earlier ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=25#483 ) which is why I don't feel mtamburini's push on yell0w was that scummy. If you think mtamburini is scum then give me some responses and maybe you'll convince me or at least help me read you better. | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
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dravernor
Netherlands6188 Posts
First off: @Amiko I think maybe my problem is that I am an easily persuaded person. If I think someone looks scummy, filter them, read other arguments against them, I can easily be convinced. When that person makes a good post in their own defense, I go back, read their filter and try to see it from their point of view. I then become uncertain. Hence getting back on the fence quite often. When I said everyone/no-one looks scummy, I meant that no-one was doing anything OBVIOUSLY scummy at the time but so early on in the game it is hard to get a read on people, and there were very small things like word choices here and there and phrasing that could be interpreted as scummy by almost every player. Which left that sort of conundrum of an 'everybody/nobody'. As for the overly aggressive/defensive quote, it was more that Epishade and Yell0w were very defensive, and bunnies was very aggressive. This too was early on in the game and before I got around to understanding how bunnies was just trying to put on pressure to get reactions and get the conversation flowing some more. Now I definitely appreciate that pressure as it has revealed a lot more about the players in question and given the rest of us a chance to look at them more in depth. Thus my read on bunnies has gone from a possible scum play to probably the most town. She really seems the most proactive in hunting right now. This however does backtrack on my initial possible theory of a clever Epishade/bunnies diversion. I had pretty much discarded this theory anyway in favour of only one of them being scum, and I am still swinging towards Epishade. On April 29 2014 12:47 Epishade wrote: I thought that your attacks on him were spot on, if not for the fact that what he made at first was in jest. I was thinking others would disregard this fact and bandwagon onto the first scummy looking person to lynch day1. Although this new post from Yellow I'll admit is kind of weird. This post is probably what set me off most. He then edited it to say *'would have been spot on'. Was his initial post his thought flow? The edit came two minutes after, which seems to me to be a short enough space of time for him to correct a genuine grammar mistake, rather than him reflecting on his wording. This post happens just before he starts defending Yell0w, which then of course raises the possibility that instead of an Epishade/bunnies mafia we could possibly be having an Epishade/Yell0w mafia - as a few of you have already pointed out, most notably in Eden's post: On April 30 2014 06:03 Eden1892 wrote: - Yell0w is scum. - Epishade still feels like he could be Yell0w's partner, but he's active and I think I read too much into his posts last night and saw something that wasn't actually there. The only major mark I have against him is that he's remaining noncommittal about Yell0w. It's weird that he says he's "not against the lynch yet" wrt Yell0w, but he was already actively defending him against the lynch last night. If Yell0w is town (and I don't think he is, but for sake of argument), then I'll move Epishade to my town pile. If Yell0w is scum then I can't ignore my intuition telling me "kill this guy." As Amiko said, I am quite a non-committal person and I know myself well enough to know that I am easily persuaded by good arguments. I'm well aware it is a flaw for this type of game, so I am going to do my best to stick to my convictions from here on in until the suspect player can prove themselves innocent. My thoughts on Eden - His initial willingness to vote random people for the smallest of reasons was what made me raise an eyebrow, especially as he voted for dfs in the same post he said to give the Euros a chance to post. This made no sense to me. It seemed as though he was willing to cast his vote in any direction for no apparent reason. I have since learned from Amiko that it is a way of getting people to talk about it and possibly force some conversation and defensiveness out of the person targeted. It still struck me as strange though. I am still on the fence on Eden, I think I need to reread his filter, and I will perhaps double post with my thoughts. I will just say that he provided a strong case against Yell0w in my opinion. Prior to that I had been very obviously on the fence about Yell0w. Which brings me to Yell0w. I don't mean to BW here, but my suspicions have since been raised. At first I thought it was pretty unfair that he was being targeted for a joke, but his comments afterwards made me wonder what the hell he was up to. He clearly didn't respond well to bunnies' pressure which made him a prime suspect (and lead to my interest in Epishade). I then thought perhaps I was reading too much into him and went back to my little fence to watch some more when Eden produced that case study that pushed me a little. Whilst I am still not 100% convinced that Yell0w is scum, he is going to remain high up on my watch list. I guess I am leaning more towards Epishade being scum and if I am right then Yell0w will be the next on my list, but until then I am going to reserve my opinion until I have a little more evidence for Yell0w. sqrt I really don't understand. He has been posting a lot, and most of them are short posts asking for information on other players. I'm not sure what to make of this at the moment, it could either be extremely town or extremely mafia. It is town in that he is pushing for conversation and wanting input from others (which is a good thing), but I think it could also be pro mafia strategy to avoid giving out too much information himself - the more he asks other people for info and their reads the less he has to talk about his own. I don't like this much. I also get the feeling he is very abrupt. He doesn't beat around the bush much, but when he does he is quite hazy on his views unless pushed to expand. Even then they are fairly short explanations and not really an explanation of his thought process. I actually just noticed that ritoky mentioned the same things and sqrt responded saying it was his posting style. I think that maintaining that posting style is going to keep him in a negative light for me because I won't get around to understanding him as much as I would like to. I have a lot more to say on the other players actually, but I don't have enough time right now. Will continue a bit later, and tomorrow is a holiday so I will have PLENTY of time to analyze and read cases. The players I am planning on covering in a bit more depth need a bit more research time for me. | ||
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dravernor
Netherlands6188 Posts
##VOTE Epishade | ||
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MysteryMeat1
United States3292 Posts
On April 30 2014 23:52 dfs wrote: tl;dr Meat - mafia, untill shares more thoughts and becomes usefull Amiko, Bunny - town mtamburini, yell0w, sqrt - more suspicious than others Im still unsure, i've only played in person mafia, where days last 20 minutes at max. I just don't like this feeling of accusing people in the beginning based off of some joke claim that he is mafia. I didn't feel like i had anything to actually say since it all just seemed like some witch hunt. | ||
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MysteryMeat1
United States3292 Posts
I'm definetly lacking day1 experience but i will be more active if i live to see day2, as thats where i believe better information will come out. | ||
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mtamburini
Canada506 Posts
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Yell0w
120 Posts
I thought Epishade was town, but now I can see how he could be scummy, defending me and attacking my attackers maybe to be seen as town if I get mislynch today and he seems to be protecting sqrt pretty hard in my opinion, so that's something to look at. Mysterymeat first of all saying he was inactive because he had "shit due tomorrow" is inconsistent with earlier when he clearly seemed there and reading the thread, but said he didn't have anything to post, so that's suspicious. Sweetfrost still thinks me or bunnies is scum, yet he doesn't seem to be doing anything to prove his point, the guy hasn't interacted with me at all even when I tried to engage him. Dravernor made a long post not saying anything that wasn't said before, he's the most suspicious of Epishade, yet his case against him is really weak and other people made much stronger cases against epishade. I also don't think Eden made a strong case against me, and just saying he did doesn't make it so. I think dravernor needs to be more specifics in what he says, because the way he's talking seems suspicious to me, all fluff and no substance. And with what mysterymeat just said, despite that I think he's suspicious, I'm fine with not lynching today and lynching him tomorrow if he doesn't become noticeably more useful. | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
@Dravenor about me editing my post I reread what I wrote before I posted it, in saying "I thought that your attacks on him were spot on, if not for the fact that what he made at first was in jest" It seemed like an alright sentence in itself to me when I first read it. The first part (I thought your attacks were spot on) is only contingent if the second part isn't true (that his comment was made in jest). After I posted, I wasn't sure if I made that contingency clear enough and that I thought Bunny's attack's were misguided. It might not have exactly needed the extra edit, but I didn't want people reading into something else that wasn't there if I could have been clearer about it. @Amiko about responding to your Tamburini points On April 30 2014 14:04 Amiko wrote: On mTamburini: I feel the core of suspicion on mtamburini is that he voted for yell0w after ninjabunnies moved off of him. From my point of view, that action is not scummy for these reasons: (1) I think ninjabunnies’ push on yell0w was fine. I mean, I wasn’t about to lynch yell0w for those early posts, but the inconsistency (even if it was a joke) was a fine thing to push him on. (2) tamburini voted for yell0w after bunnies moved her vote off of him. To me, this doesn’t really seem like a mafia play. I usually think scum would want to join a growing lynch to give it support, but here tamburini seems to want to re-open a case that doesn’t seem to have support. This doesn’t feel scummy to me. (3) I think tamburini had a fine reason to bring new pressure to yell0w. I don’t feel like yell0w asking “What was the ideal response?” is strongly scum indicative, but again, it’s something I feel pressure. That said, I need more from mtamburini's - his posts so far have been too focused on yell0w. If he wants to push a lynch, that’s fine, but I want to see some interactions with other players. If yell0w isn't the lynch, it'll be tough to draw new conclusions on mtamburini because he hasn't weighed in on some of the other players. @mtamburini: Please comment on Eden. In particular, could you discuss Eden’s case on yell0w? Also, is there anything about the timing of Eden's case on yell0w that strikes you as unusual? (I haven't reread enough to decide for sure whether there is, but I think there might be) (1): I believe that Tamburini here was sort of teaming up to vote for Yellow with Bunny (along with whomever else she convinced to join against Yellow). If it were just this fault that I'd give Tamburini, I don't feel I'd be all that suspicious about him. (2) and (3): This is where our opinions may differ a bit. I agree, it doesn't seem like Tamburini would want to (as scum) open up a case without support. That's why Tamburini labels Yellow's new comment, "What was the ideal response?" as evidence towards Yellow being scum. Yellow was just in the spotlight before, so it wouldn't be too difficult to gather more support against him if there was another piece of evidence. However, I don't see Yellow's comment as actually being scumworthy evidence. I think Tamburini was trying to draw attention to what Yellow said by saying how scumlike it was for him to ask such a question. It felt way over the top for me, and I don't think the comment was scummy at all. Yellow says he asks this to learn how to act more town, and Tamburini claims that you shouldn't act more like town because you should already be town. It just doesn't make sense to me, and those two of Tamburini's claims are what puts him high on my scumreader for me. *When I typed out my response for your second point, I realized it kind of tied into the third, so I just put them together. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On May 01 2014 06:10 Epishade wrote: Dammit Meat, lol. Serious question now, does he get replaced/dropped, or is he just lucky he managed to place a vote before he got banned? He got banned? | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
He got 2-dayed for making a joke in the TB has cancer thread. | ||
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mtamburini
Canada506 Posts
I like tunneling its fun and you cant tell a lot about a person when you do so along with everyone else in the game. Im like 85% certain on this person and if I do mis shoot, well I will retract town leader position and stick my tail between my legs and sit in the corner and think about what I have done. | ||
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mtamburini
Canada506 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On May 01 2014 06:48 Epishade wrote: He got 2-dayed for making a joke in the TB has cancer thread. Ah. Is that what the lock is for? On May 01 2014 06:53 mtamburini wrote: Gonna be completely honest, all this reading gives me a headache I dont read this much for school. And to be hoenst I prob wont finish and I will read later again,.Im tired and hungry and Im just gonna claim my role. Im Bird Jesus and Ive got a target to shoot tonight right now but I will finish reading to find more connections to this person and/or more behavior I may have missed from everyone else. I like tunneling its fun and you cant tell a lot about a person when you do so along with everyone else in the game. Im like 85% certain on this person and if I do mis shoot, well I will retract town leader position and stick my tail between my legs and sit in the corner and think about what I have done. ...why would you claim in this scenario? | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
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mtamburini
Canada506 Posts
Its common practice in the video mafia games that I play in the Vigilante claims and lets everyone know that they will be shooting in case they die in the night and 2 kills happen instead of 1 so there is no confusion the next day ( we usually play with 2 kp for mafia until there is 2 of them left with no flips). | ||
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mtamburini
Canada506 Posts
On May 01 2014 07:18 Epishade wrote: Umm, I guess, if he's going to shoot someone tonight, that means I can drop my case against him, right? As shooting someone will prove his innocence? If he doesn't shoot, then lynch ofc. Explain the benefits of me claiming Bird Jesus as mafia to only survive one more day according to your logic. | ||
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