[I][T][M] Vengeful Mini Mafia!

On February 04 2014 11:09 marvellosity wrote:
The absolute best thing for mafia in this sort of game is to have townies riled up and wanting to take vengeful shots. Ironically.

Mafia have much less space to hide in if people are rational and aren't self-hammering just so they can shoot the person that can piss them off.

Anyone should be able to see that that is absolutely the best thing for mafia. Worst thing for mafia = everyone being rational so they can't take funky shots if they're lynched under the guise of emotion or having a laugh. Maybe Artanis is town and he's not going to bow to the will of the people, but if he's in danger of being lynched, it should be clear how and why his top suspect is, and we can go off that.

So if I assume you're town, DP, then whatever it takes for this not to happen is what you gotta do. Because I'm not having tits throw this game away because they're pissed off and they want to shoot people.

On February 04 2014 19:19 DarthPunk wrote:
What do you think about artanis' scum claim?

On February 04 2014 19:19 DarthPunk wrote:
As to prome. Yeah the pushing the asleep people was fucking weird, and I had not noticed his lack of follow up on HF actually. Also it was weird how defensive he was about answering questions and promoting discussion with me and then he backflipped about it when I voted for him.

On February 04 2014 19:25 DarthPunk wrote:


But you thought Jepg was suspicious for doing it on Vendetta strada. Why not artanis here?

On February 04 2014 19:27 marvellosity wrote:
Look, both of you dopeydrawers.

You gloated like morons that "marv was so easy to catch" in Shadow. Well, now this is a different game, so you should both be able to read my alignment super easily.

So either you were bullshitting in Shadow, you're bullshitting here, or you're mafia, or some combination of the above.

Which is it to be?

On February 04 2014 19:46 marvellosity wrote:
How do I know? You just made some weird nitpicky thing about a post I made, and said Prome is mafia when he probably isn't. Very bleh.

On February 04 2014 19:54 DarthPunk wrote:


How do you figure?

On February 04 2014 20:22 marvellosity wrote:
Why rayn is probably mafia:


Why even say this about Holy? What's the purpose? What does it tell the thread? Absolutely nothing, it's padding for the sake of looking like he's saying something.

I made an extremely sensible post that it's almost impossible to argue with, and yet rayn spends his time picking at who I'm directing it to? Nooooo no. Naughty.

Personal but subjective, I think rayn would have got more out of my posting up to that point in the game.

Ok, he's talking about Prome here. But look...!

rayn had zero reads except... Prome! So why was it beyond rayn's belief in the last quote that Promethelax thought that everyone posting so far was town? No sense makey makey.

TOO LATE. WRONG REASONS.

On February 04 2014 20:38 marvellosity wrote:
Only time I ever remember someone saying, on day 1, "these lurkers scum, everyone else townie" was

Dunno why it's a mafia thing to say at all.

There was no point clarifying what you thought. "he looked bad now he looks ok". Why bother saying it? Why did you need an "introduction" to pointlessly talking about my post? Na. Baddy.

On February 04 2014 20:43 marvellosity wrote:
bugs' reasoning was also non-existent. Doesn't make anyone mafia.

On February 04 2014 21:02 marvellosity wrote:
HF had nothing to drop... he made one joke post on meta and one seriousish early case that wasn't so great. What was Holy supposed to be "dropping"?

On February 04 2014 21:15 marvellosity wrote:
If your accusation on him had included "but I think x or y (in this case Artanis) aren't townie, how can he think this" then I'd be more sympathetic, but you didn't say that - you made it into a general point, and as a general point it's meaningless.

On February 04 2014 21:16 marvellosity wrote:

Because he decided DP wasn't so scummy and other people were?

:OOOOOOOO

On February 04 2014 14:45 Holyflare wrote:


Toad's case was legitimately beyond terrible. This case was totally unjustified rage on a case that wasn't awful. How can you equate the two things at all? The fact that 3 people jumped onto him because of that shows that other people agree why so have you taken the opposite point of view?

Please explain how my conclusions are wrong.

On February 04 2014 21:33 marvellosity wrote:

Yes, and my point is there was zero reason for the post you dopily critiqued should have been aimed at Holy, because he only made one troll meta case. In no universe should I be telling Holy anything when all he did was make a joke case. It was purely DP getting upset and threatening to do irrational things, so my post was aimed at him. I'm confused how you could get that so mixed up.

On February 04 2014 21:33 marvellosity wrote:
Anyways I'm not interested in talking about you or your alignment anymore because it won't go anywhere.

I'm interested in what you have to say about Holy if you'd like to tell me though.

On February 04 2014 21:44 marvellosity wrote:
How do you feel about the content of the cases themselves on Prome and Wave?

On February 04 2014 08:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Yeah. My idea was that we should lynch the person we think is the second likeliest to be scum and tell him to shoot the person we think is likeliest to be scum. If he doesn't agree then he's claiming scum.
Problem with this is that part of the fun in this game is to shoot who you want to shoot and I'm not prepared to sacrifice that so I'm kinda against my own plan. Bit of an objectively best plan vs most fun kinda deal.

On February 04 2014 11:15 Promethelax wrote:


one bad shot and lylo. Totally the same, lynching scum>vigging them. Actually maybe not now that I write it down. Would prefer to lynch a townie who was on the margins of looking scummy and have them shoot a scum. It will confirm two alignments.

Was thinking in the pre game if one player is kicking ass and taking names for town scum may actually choose to bus to be able to use their shot on said player. We should not be too confidant that those who push scum are town. There is valid reason for scum to bus even when neither scum is in danger.

On February 04 2014 22:51 marvellosity wrote:
I don't understand the connection between the two things.

On February 04 2014 11:11 Promethelax wrote:
marv baby, talk to me about Artanis. Is his mafia claim in any way alignment indicative, I'm inclined to say no since well...that is dumb. I don't see him being more likely or less likely to post that as either alignment and until someone finds a quote saying "I would never claim scum as town" -artanis, I won't believe that to be a real reason to find him scummy.

On February 04 2014 23:55 WaveofShadow wrote:

You know, I can actually picture you saying this sentence now.
No, that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is HF's meta case makes some degree of sense only because he is comparing this game to my very last (which isn't a great comparison to begin with). He isn't trying to compare this game to my scumgame 9 months ago---so he is technically right when he says i am playing differently this game as compared to my last. The problem is, that doesn't make me scummy in the slightest.

No amount of wishy-washiness or lack thereof will do so either.

On February 04 2014 23:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I'm talking mostly about your second and third points here. As for the first, I could see it as a post basically telling HF to not purposefully enrage DP and his thoughts wandered from there. Posts being pointless does not equal scum, you should be well aware of that.

On February 04 2014 23:55 WaveofShadow wrote:

You know, I can actually picture you saying this sentence now.
No, that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is HF's meta case makes some degree of sense only because he is comparing this game to my very last (which isn't a great comparison to begin with). He isn't trying to compare this game to my scumgame 9 months ago---so he is technically right when he says i am playing differently this game as compared to my last. The problem is, that doesn't make me scummy in the slightest.

No amount of wishy-washiness or lack thereof will do so either.

On February 05 2014 00:01 Cephiro wrote:
I felt like I'd let everyone know I am around and will be providing my insight, whether you'll find it useful or not. I've read the threat enough to know that there are people doubting about my level of participation, even at the first 6-12 hours of the game part which was night and morning my time, so I wanted to let everyone know I am not going to just lurk.

Make what you want out of that.

I just felt it would be better for me to say something rather than be quiet and keep you guessing if I'll play or not.

On February 05 2014 00:09 marvellosity wrote:
Obviously it's not useful, but what else is there to say about it? Just wait and see what he posts later.

On February 05 2014 00:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

You might be right because I'm getting confused with specific wording. My point was simply that I considered point 2 and 3 non alignment indicative. That's all there is to it.

I reread regarding point 1 and Rayn's answer and find his answer lacking. It's a bad open and together with the inconsistency I would consider him smelly.

On February 05 2014 00:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Clarifying your position when you hadn't even entered the thread yet feels unnecessary. And if you felt there wasn't much alignment indicative things in the thread yet, why did you have a problem with Promethelax' post?

On February 05 2014 03:07 Holyflare wrote:
Rayn, the quote about DP at the top of my Prome case had nothing to do with my case on DP, it was to do with wave's response to it which should have been quite obvious as the question was directed at wave.

On February 05 2014 03:20 Holyflare wrote:


I'll have to re-read him thoroughly but from what I got on my run through and what I was thinking after things cooled down, probably not.

On February 04 2014 14:45 Holyflare wrote:


Toad's case was legitimately beyond terrible. This case was totally unjustified rage on a case that wasn't awful. How can you equate the two things at all? The fact that 3 people jumped onto him because of that shows that other people agree why so have you taken the opposite point of view?

Please explain how my conclusions are wrong.

On February 05 2014 04:05 Holyflare wrote:


?

When i came to the thread and saw the first thing from rayn I was like "what the shit is rayn doing now, he literally just summarised everything I said. Oh god is this scum rayn, there's no 3rd party and this isn't town rayn wth is going onnnnn" because it's so far removed from what he usually does.

On February 05 2014 04:21 Holyflare wrote:









That's what i'm referring to. My case on wave was him not making sense and my case on prome (regardless of whether his cephiro mislynch post was a joke or not) was that he was lynching lurkers (cephiro over you rayn for no reason). So your first posts of the game looked really fishy to me as they were so close to what I had already said.


DP is a case of too much legitimate rage to be scum. He's literally arguing with me and marv over the most lame shit over and over again and when it get's too heated it's "lynch me i don't care i'll shoot you". That would be -1 mafia and he'd be shooting the guy that he "thinks" is scummy so that wouldn't make any sense. You can argue that his rage is fake and he wouldn't shoot marv etc but I don't think it is.

On February 05 2014 05:21 marvellosity wrote:

Are you telling me Artanis is town?

If so, explain.

On February 05 2014 05:24 LSB wrote:
Yeah I don't get the artanis is scum because he is not taking the game seriously meta. If anything it puts more townie points for me.

Artanis is quite capable of taking the game seriously and acting like one of the most townie player in the game as scum. I would be more concerned if he was an active townie than the lurker that he is right now

On February 05 2014 12:04 DarthPunk wrote:


What? Don't call marv obviously town for no reason and then call him scummy again. That is fucking bullshit. If your can change that fast how was he obviously town in the first place?



That is also odd.

God I hope you actually are town this game rayn.

On February 05 2014 13:21 Promethelax wrote:
Im around for a bit but after last game I'm pretty bored of talking to people I read as townie who think I'm scum for bad reasons.

In short the reasons for people being town:
Marv: meta. His tone and interest are in direct contrast to his play as scum ever. I can't show it to you because it is present in every post. Either you believe that I know how to read Marv based on his tone or you don't. However, I can and because I value my reputation on this site I would never commit to a read this heavily unless I was sure. I am very sure.

Wave: had some posts which read townie to me early on. I'm on a tablet so I can't quote. My memory suggest these had to do with his determination to watch Marv and his insistence of it in thread. Other people saw these as scummy but I liked them, they made sense from a townie who had misgivings about scum Marv in his past game but hadn't done anything to get him lynched.

Iamperfection: seemed really townie. He niggled in ways I liked during early game. I'm sad he replaced out since he was making sense and generally read as town.
Lsb: has clearly thought about the set up from a town perspective. This gels with both my past experience with town lsb (PYPLOL) and my read of imp as town.

DP: all the rage, it seems like genuine towniedp rage. DP plays a smart game of scum and screaming and kicking is a good way to get shot while at the same time ruining his chances of being listened to as a thread leader. Also I disagree with most/all of what he is saying which, counter-intuitively, makes him seem townie to me. In the past scum DP has tried to fit into thread and say similar things to townies and since he is not doing that I think he is town.

I have reasons DP. I just never bothered to write them out. There they are. I'm not going to repeat myself, I don't think there is a lot of value in answering you in a case on me. If you lynch me I'll happily shoot Artanis. I don't really care since I'm clearly town and you might listen to my reads after I shoot scum.

I believe I've adequately explained my scum reads. If you disagree feel free to ask.

On February 05 2014 16:08 DarthPunk wrote:
Rayn did tell me before the game started he was trying a different style this game.

On February 05 2014 16:11 WaveofShadow wrote:

I remember that, hence be not jumping all over him for it constantly, but the fact remains, whatever new 'style' he is choosing he hasn't bothered to push anyone today and much of his posting doesn't accomplish much.

If that's his new style, I don't see what he's attempting to accomplish with it.

On February 05 2014 15:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Wave: had some posts which read townie to me early on. I'm on a tablet so I can't quote. My memory suggest these had to do with his determination to watch Marv and his insistence of it in thread. Other people saw these as scummy but I liked them, they made sense from a townie who had misgivings about scum Marv in his past game but hadn't done anything to get him lynched.

On February 05 2014 16:17 WaveofShadow wrote:

Ok you sort of answered the post that came after this one.
1) Is there some point in this game that you are going to take up a stance? We're what, almost 36h in? Again, this may be a different style for you, but you're not me. I don't seem to recall you ever having trouble calling people scum or taking hard stances in any game, IML or not.

2) I'm going with feels this game; I don't honestly care if you think my stuff is crap, fishy or unjustified. I will however pay attention to your posting a little more going forward and consider the point of asking you going forward---much easier to do this mid-conversation than going back and trying to ask you why you made certain posts.

3) You do need to prove me wrong if you're going to attempt to start calling me scum, if that's where you're going with the suspicion in your post earlier. Hey, I'll ask you now. What is the purpose behind this post?

On February 05 2014 16:18 WaveofShadow wrote:

Um, wat.
You have no votes on you at all as far as I can tell, and you're clearly not #1 OR even 2 on my scumlist, nor have I ever even referred to you specifically as scum this game.
What prompted this insanely defensive post exactly?

On February 05 2014 04:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Prome, Artanis, Wave. read on Cephiro is pending.

Other people seem more or less town.

On February 05 2014 04:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Post Prome's comeback i could not understand a single thing he said, he just... flung some words somewhere...
Post Wave's comeback he said pretty much nothing and suddenly had a scumread on me based on me "doing nothing"???
Artanis' posts were just.. terrible.

On February 05 2014 16:32 WaveofShadow wrote:

No, that doesn't answer the question. Why do you feel the need to be so insanely defensive when nothing prompted it? Even if you think I'm scum, you're obviously not in danger of being lynched, never mind 'speed hammered' by one fucking person.

On February 05 2014 16:47 WaveofShadow wrote:

Alright, but I REALLY have to go to bed.
What 'other people' do you think I should be looking into (besides Prome because I will be doing that tomorrow).

On February 05 2014 18:21 DarthPunk wrote:


Kind of hilarious you are saying that after Extractor trick. hue.

On February 05 2014 18:29 Holyflare wrote:


Gotta stay awake for a delivery zzzzzz

On February 05 2014 18:33 Cephiro wrote:
2) I want to see how certain players continue without me taking an action against them.

Artanis is a ?-Factor.

On February 05 2014 18:51 Holyflare wrote:
Anyone played with cephiro on forum before? Does he do this "my plan is complete" only to then reveal... Nothing?

On February 05 2014 18:58 Cephiro wrote:


I don't care if you have 0.6, 6, 16, or 60 pages of filter. It's not alignment indicative. There are reasons why I consider your play more likely to be pro-scum than pro-town. As I explained earlier, even though I dislike marv's play in general he has enough good points to back him up as likely town.

He could still be scum, I'm open up to all possibilities for now.

On February 05 2014 19:08 Holyflare wrote:
Don't really remember people from when I'm scum gotta keep track of the lies. +he didn't do any plans then

On February 05 2014 19:18 marvellosity wrote:

I made a case, you lying little shit.

On February 05 2014 19:21 marvellosity wrote:

Totally incorrect, just a casual readthrough of Shadow game shows all my points are almost always reasoned.

badly, but reasoned.

On February 05 2014 19:25 marvellosity wrote:

You best probably stop lying.

The case isn't invalid. You said I have called you scum with "no reasoning". Not that you answered the case. I have repeatedly given reasoning. That is a flat out LIE.

On February 05 2014 19:44 Cephiro wrote:


Why do you want to lynch artanis with his recent post instead of giving him time and a chance? It's not like we're running out of time. Intentionally limiting ourselves only benefits scum.

On February 05 2014 18:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:

In case you are planning on being here what do you think of Wave's last contributions and what i said about marv?

On February 05 2014 19:58 marvellosity wrote:

No there aren't, Artanis is 100% confirmed mafia, he has posted elsewhere in the forum and not here, he would give up as mafia and he would never give up as town. Terrible terrible post.

On February 07 2014 01:51 marvellosity wrote:
Well Prome is almost certainly town simply because DP thought he was mafia.

But Prome really should have shot rayn as rayn was level 5 in his scumreads just the same as Artanis was. Why not shoot the guy who's much harder to kill?

On February 07 2014 02:23 marvellosity wrote:

how does that make him mafia?

there's stupid, not mafia.

you're asking someone who has the exact same 3 reads as you whether they are mafia because you don't agree with which mafia they voted..

On February 07 2014 06:16 WaveofShadow wrote:
I really want to see if the rayn and DP 'we would have caught marv' dreamtime is right and I'm wrong.
This game is for all the bragging rights.

On February 07 2014 18:59 marvellosity wrote:

well you called me "so bad" etc just like I did to DP (but much more), but I agree, you weren't