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On January 22 2014 03:05 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 03:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 22 2014 03:01 zarepath wrote:
Okay, again, two different things. suki's case was based off of not knowing the difference between when VE was talking about the two different plans.
That particular point in my case was a little bit tunneled, but the idea was that all of his opinions are tempered -- he's "KINDA okay," he's "mostly indifferent," he's "giving benefit of the doubt." When I said "wishy-washy" I think a better term would have been noncomittal or "meh."
Again, as I said earlier, this was digging a little deep and maybe I was subconsciously tunneling. But that argument is different than the one suki made (and I had corrected). And when this all has ended and you don't anymore think that stuff makes VE mafia, you are voting the dude who made the same conclusions than you did in the first place. High five! We're not voting for an entire mafia team at once, we're voting for who we think is most likely mafia. It would be stupid to not think someone's mafia because they targeted the same guy as you once
THAT IS ALL YOU HAVE DONE IN THSI GAME.
OKAY I AM WRITING A POST NOW.
Post in 15min.
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@VE, Jonny
I actually find that wording to be really weird
"for you to have to defend yourself against SCUM suspicions"
I've never seen anybody call just straight up suspicion "scum suspicion". When I just read that now it honestly looked like a scum claim. Probably just poor wording though.
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Here is what zarepath has done in this game:
- made a case on VE. case does not say why VE is mafia.
- case is full of things zarepath has defended VE for earlier on in the game -> now they are just reworded to look scummy instead
- case is also full of things that are certainly not alignment indicative, like VE is defensive when he is curious about what someone's post says.
- never tries to push the case, or ask anyone's opinion about the case.
- when he finally does that, i give an opinion. suddenly the case is not good anymore, he himself says so and let's it go.
- then he calls out bumatlarge, who has done the exact same thing (made a case on VE and then retracted from it) and votes for him. bumatlarge is scum because "he let go of the case as noone believes him" but his own reason is something really townie - When he has never even explained why anything he has said makes VE mafia, and when someone asks he says "hush hush, go away, i let go of my case, look how good townie i am, i might have been tunneled".
That's bullshit, so very bullshit, all of it.
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Also in relation to that quote that VE and JL just posted: says VE is defensive in his big case, yet when VE is not defensive he calls him out for it.
So what exactly do you want him to do zarepath?
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I can get making bad cases, i can get contradicting oneself, i can get townies do this sometimes when they re-evaluate.
What i don't get is that a guy who has had the exact same thought process as you have in the whole game (yes, bum's case is pretty close to what zarepath's is) is suddenly mafia when your case is called out shit. When i am town and someone thinks almost definitely alike me and reaches into same conclusions than i do, i can't possibly call them mafia and i instantly think they are town just because of it.
There is no fucking way zarepath thinks bumatlarge is mafia.
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On the flip side I don't think scum zarepath would jump on bum either. If you're mafia why would you jump on the person who has the most heat on him? Especially for all those reasons that you stated why a 'town zarepath wouldnt go on bum'. There are plenty of other decent targets for a scum Zarepath to choose.
I also think Bum's retraction from VE is super scummy and don't fault Zarepath for thinking so as well.
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and if bum flips scum there's even more reason for zarepath not to jump on bum.
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Every stupid wording shit is dumb. I already know zarepath is capable or rewording stuff in a way it looks like what he wants.
If anything, bumatlarge is honest in his retraction of VE, zarepath is not.
It does not make any sense for him to do so, it just doesn't. You don't make a fucking big case and sit on it for for 24h and when people call it out you say "okay i was tunneled kthxbye, but hey i also vote this other guy who had the same thoguht process i did". No townie ever does that.
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
Vote Count!
Kushm4sta (1) - Suki, Thrawn2112, thrawn2112, Wile E. Coyote, Rayn, JonnyLaw
Suki (0) - Kushm4sta
Thrawn (0) - Rayn
VisceraEyes (0) - JonnyLaw, Suki, Bumatlarge, Zarepath
Wile E. Coyote (0) - Rayn, VisceraEyes
Bumatlarge (4) - Rayn, VisceraEyes, kushm4sta, VisceraEyes, Zarepath, suki
Balla24 (0) - kushm4sta, JonnyLaw, VisceraEyes
Raynpelikoneet (1) - Artanis[Xp]
Zarepath (2) - BarristanTheBold, Suki, Rayn
Crossfire99 (2) - Rayn, Wile E. Coyote, Balla24
Currently Bumatlarge is set to be lynched. The deadline is Tuesday, Jan 21 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) there are remaining in day one.
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On January 22 2014 03:22 suki wrote:
On the flip side I don't think scum zarepath would jump on bum either. If you're mafia why would you jump on the person who has the most heat on him? Especially for all those reasons that you stated why a 'town zarepath wouldnt go on bum'. There are plenty of other decent targets for a scum Zarepath to choose.
I also think Bum's retraction from VE is super scummy and don't fault Zarepath for thinking so as well.
because he is the only person who can be lynched besides him.
as town you don't think about this stuff but as scum you do.
that's why.
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I agree with Rayn on this point. Zerepath literally took the time to make a case, didn't push it at all then calls bum scum for making the same case and actually trying to get it pushed into a lynch.
Bum's right, if your case isn't getting traction why waste people's time. If bum really think's VE's scum he can always wait and try to get him lynched later.
@balla It took me a minute to understand what the hell that post is saying. But yes it is contradicting his case completely. Backwards ass logic. He's scum for being defensive and he's scum for saying fuck it, lynch me if I'm scum.
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On January 22 2014 03:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Here is what zarepath has done in this game:
- made a case on VE. case does not say why VE is mafia.
- case is full of things zarepath has defended VE for earlier on in the game -> now they are just reworded to look scummy instead
- case is also full of things that are certainly not alignment indicative, like VE is defensive when he is curious about what someone's post says.
- never tries to push the case, or ask anyone's opinion about the case.
- when he finally does that, i give an opinion. suddenly the case is not good anymore, he himself says so and let's it go.
- then he calls out bumatlarge, who has done the exact same thing (made a case on VE and then retracted from it) and votes for him. bumatlarge is scum because "he let go of the case as noone believes him" but his own reason is something really townie - When he has never even explained why anything he has said makes VE mafia, and when someone asks he says "hush hush, go away, i let go of my case, look how good townie i am, i might have been tunneled".
That's bullshit, so very bullshit, all of it.
- case DOES say
- case doesn't have ANYTHING in it I defended him for earlier
- the not-alignment indicative stuff I can agree with, it was stretching at points
- I totally absolutely DID ask people's opinion about the case, as you just admitted in your next point
- why do you think I asked for an opinion? because I wanted people to admire it? No, because I want people to agree and find someone I think is scum, or for them tell me why it's not a good case so we can stop wasting time hunting non-scum
- bumatlarge made a big deal about how he would NEVER revoke his vote and then did it simply because nobody else believed him, NOT because he changed his mind. Very different and very scummy.
You're mischaracterizing everything I do and using hyperbole to paint me a certain way and it's not good for town.
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No i am not. What in your case made VE scum?
You ahve still not proven it.
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On January 22 2014 03:15 Balla24 wrote:
Also in relation to that quote that VE and JL just posted: says VE is defensive in his big case, yet when VE is not defensive he calls him out for it.
So what exactly do you want him to do zarepath?
My case was that he was being overly-defensive, not the fact that he was defending himself at all. And there is a big difference between simply not being over-defensive and saying "lynch me, town." It is not inconsistent to criticize both behaviors.
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Also i have already pointed out where you defended VE and later on they were points in your case "why VE is mafia".
So cut the crap, start reading the thread and answer your contradictions.
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On January 22 2014 03:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No i am not. What in your case made VE scum?
You ahve still not proven it.
Cases don't MAKE people scum; I listed why I suspected him to be scum, and some of my suspicions were tunneled and so I've stepped back.
He is STILL suspicious for bieng so quick to vote Wile, then quick to drop and vote for someone else (without a reason to vote for that person, ONLY giving reasons for no longer voting for Wile). So no, I'm not pushing it anymore because it was a bad case, but that doesn't mean I didn't suspect him and can no longer suspect him.
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On January 22 2014 03:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Also i have already pointed out where you defended VE and later on they were points in your case "why VE is mafia".
So cut the crap, start reading the thread and answer your contradictions.
If by "defend" you mean saying it was ok for VE to suspect WileE, and then later in my case saying it was evidence for scumminess, okay, I can see that contradiction. But at the time he did that, he hadn't already completely dropped that vote for someone else without explaining why he was voting for that someone else, establishing a pattern. The pattern is what made me suspicious and see that first immediate vote as evidence, when before it seemed like a normalish reaction (albeit hasty).
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Yeah kinda bad.
On January 21 2014 09:53 zarepath wrote:
@Barristan
1) I simply have not had much time so far this game. Sundays are always my busiest days of the week (and this goes back to all of my games) and I barely had a chance to read the thread then, and today I've been doing family stuff b/c holiday and poking back in. My activity level should rise appropriately the rest of the week, but still probably not to The Game levels as I have another kid now and my schedule's tightened.
I reject the notion that my "focus" on VE has been a simple parroting of other's comments, as that's not what I did at all. His switch to bum looked very suspicious and I did my own analysis of him, and that case was the result. My case was completely ignored and I HAVE tried to push it back into people's attention, so I think that's a mischaracterization.
2) You talk about me voting and pushing my scum reads as if this is a pattern I've established in this game, when I've had one main read that I've made a case on so far, and my analysis was more in-depth than essentially every argument leading up to a vote in this thread. I don't see how you consider my analysis of VE leading up to my vote on him as being worse than VE voting for bum, his only justification being... that it's okay that he's giving up on his earlier vote.
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I thought VE was talking about the two different plans, kush's "don't lynch anyone who claims blue" plan and the Boxer claim plan. I don't know what he was talking about with the "2 is pretty potent" quote, I have no idea what he's saying. But I didn't think he was inconsistent while reading him because he had two different opinions on two different plans.
*does it look like he has a problem with VE's posts about plans?*
vs
Lots of early discussion about the two plans, wishy-washy demeanor, Wants others to discuss things, not himself
*another way to describe VE's early game (yes, nearly all quotes inside those spoilers are about the plans)*
@Thrawn, VE's vote seemed premature to me because I didn't really see a super early blue claim as scummy, but not wholly unreasonable considering Wile WAS directly contradicting everything he had said earlier.
*vote is premature but has a reasoning behind it*
vs
Immediate attack on Wiley for blue claiming:
This seemed like another very easy thing to do, but in his accusation he doesn't really explain why it's scummy, just that "it's all bad." It's easy to attack someone for being obviously contradictory without actually calling them scummy, and that's what he did.
*vote had absolutely no reasoning behind it and was easy thing to do for mafia*
Do you guys even read this guys posts?
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Like you do the exact same thing. By your rationale you should be voting for yourself man.
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EPT
