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On May 23 2014 02:04 Xatalos wrote:
I think Valenius is a bit too obviously anti-town. He even claims that he's "going to shitpost" and then proceeds to do so. And he constantly complains and doesn't seem interested in scumhunting at all.
Now that I think about it, maybe he's just a bad scum player.
Yeah it's the seeming lack of interest and reluctance to contribute that does it for me. It's possible he's just some newbie with an extreme lack of self-confidence, but it's the apathy for analysis that makes it more likely for him to be scum IMO.
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Alright I'll be driving for the rest of today. I might be able to make a vote post on the road somewhere, but other than that, I'm pretty much done with posting/analysis until after the lynch deadline.
I think Valenius is our best option for today. Tambo's recent activity makes me far more hesitant about him. I can't say for sure if he's town, but he's atleast null, and there are better targets out there for today.
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Also before I forget...
On May 23 2014 01:59 kushm4sta wrote:
##unvote
##vote odin
Please explain this Kush.
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I'll consider switching to Odin depending on what Valenius comes up with in the next few hours. Can't do much on my phone, but I can and will be reading.
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On May 23 2014 03:11 Koshi wrote:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe BH isn't crazy.
BH confirmed not crazy.
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I want to hear something from Valenius before I change my vote. If I am changing, it will be to Odin though
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Hm. That lynch result was unfortunate. Though the good news is that we have a lot of material to work with - these crazy late vote swaps always generate good information.
I'll be reading the buildup to the lynch tomorrow, as I just drove 8 hours and I'm dead tired. My first instinct is to look into players on the Odin wagon that followed Blazinghand's RNG lynch as opposed to lynching Odin for actually being suspicious of him. Yell0w stuck with his early RNG vote on Odin despite having several other scum-reads in his filter. Alakaslam never mentioned a scum-read on Odin either (other the RNG stuff). Not sure if that's just Slam being Slam, but that's objectively pretty terrible.
Obviously there are more people to look into than the two I mentioned above - Cavalihno's case looks interesting at first glance, and I'll need to verify that myself after I get some sleep. Tambo essentially wasting his vote late in the cycle is also very bad.
Since several people expressed concern about my own actions during the lynch, I can't defend myself other than simply not being able to post while driving on a highway. My travel schedule today was terrible, and I really wish I could have been around for the deadline.
Instead, I had a very short time to get acquainted with BlazingHand's case, saw a bunch of reputable players follow it, and kinda just went with the flow. Given the result and hindsight, I very much regret how it played out, but there was very little I could do today to help it.
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Much townier than yesterday. His push on Odin was textbook town BH.
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On May 23 2014 13:57 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 13:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Hm. That lynch result was unfortunate. Though the good news is that we have a lot of material to work with - these crazy late vote swaps always generate good information.
I'll be reading the buildup to the lynch tomorrow, as I just drove 8 hours and I'm dead tired. My first instinct is to look into players on the Odin wagon that followed Blazinghand's RNG lynch as opposed to lynching Odin for actually being suspicious of him. Yell0w stuck with his early RNG vote on Odin despite having several other scum-reads in his filter. Alakaslam never mentioned a scum-read on Odin either (other the RNG stuff). Not sure if that's just Slam being Slam, but that's objectively pretty terrible.
Obviously there are more people to look into than the two I mentioned above - Cavalihno's case looks interesting at first glance, and I'll need to verify that myself after I get some sleep. Tambo essentially wasting his vote late in the cycle is also very bad.
Since several people expressed concern about my own actions during the lynch, I can't defend myself other than simply not being able to post while driving on a highway. My travel schedule today was terrible, and I really wish I could have been around for the deadline.
Instead, I had a very short time to get acquainted with BlazingHand's case, saw a bunch of reputable players follow it, and kinda just went with the flow. Given the result and hindsight, I very much regret how it played out, but there was very little I could do today to help it. can you name the reputable players without looking and also say if you think they are town this game
Marv/Kita/BH off the top of my head.
The thing is, it doesn't really matter if they're town. Given that there are multiple factions, it's highly likely that mafia and town can have similar objectives (lynching other factions). If you want my surface reads on them...
BH = Town
Kita = Null
Marv = Slight-Town
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Slam - if you're around, talk to me about the lynch yesterday. You seemed to be active the hours leading up to deadline, and you had your vote on Odin. Yet I can't find anywhere in your filter that you thought Odin was suspicious. The only mentions of Odin in your filter are towards the beginning (RNG lynch stuff).
Sticking with the RNG lynch all day (despite being quite active in thread) does not look very good.
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On May 23 2014 14:30 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 14:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 23 2014 13:57 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 13:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Hm. That lynch result was unfortunate. Though the good news is that we have a lot of material to work with - these crazy late vote swaps always generate good information.
I'll be reading the buildup to the lynch tomorrow, as I just drove 8 hours and I'm dead tired. My first instinct is to look into players on the Odin wagon that followed Blazinghand's RNG lynch as opposed to lynching Odin for actually being suspicious of him. Yell0w stuck with his early RNG vote on Odin despite having several other scum-reads in his filter. Alakaslam never mentioned a scum-read on Odin either (other the RNG stuff). Not sure if that's just Slam being Slam, but that's objectively pretty terrible.
Obviously there are more people to look into than the two I mentioned above - Cavalihno's case looks interesting at first glance, and I'll need to verify that myself after I get some sleep. Tambo essentially wasting his vote late in the cycle is also very bad.
Since several people expressed concern about my own actions during the lynch, I can't defend myself other than simply not being able to post while driving on a highway. My travel schedule today was terrible, and I really wish I could have been around for the deadline.
Instead, I had a very short time to get acquainted with BlazingHand's case, saw a bunch of reputable players follow it, and kinda just went with the flow. Given the result and hindsight, I very much regret how it played out, but there was very little I could do today to help it. can you name the reputable players without looking and also say if you think they are town this game Marv/Kita/BH off the top of my head. The thing is, it doesn't really matter if they're town. Given that there are multiple factions, it's highly likely that mafia and town can have similar objectives (lynching other factions). If you want my surface reads on them... BH = Town Kita = Null Marv = Slight-Town Of course it matters if they're town because you want to find not-town people and they could be pushing agendas as not town?? Are you solely saying that you followed them because their names were all up there and pretty like? Now that you know he was town do they look more suspicious to you for providing 0 reasoning for lynching odin? Kita doesn't even mention wanting to lynch odin at all afaik in his entire filter. Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 06:34 kitaman27 wrote:
There were a couple of people who voted for Odin based on a "logically sound case", rather than actually sharing a belief that he was mafia.
I know some may consider this a matter of semantics here, but I put some value into it. Will look back later. ^ does that look more strange to you now considering that? Kita falls into that category of people but he wants to look into those people. Does that make sense?
I don't know - I'm going to look at the lynch right now and see what I find.
But yes I sorta just went with the flow on the last lynch, basically because their names were "shiny". There's really not much else I can do while driving. Was it a good idea in hindsight? Probably not. I did manage to skim the BlazingHand case enough to think it was pretty good (as did many other people), and thought my vote would be of better use consolidating with the rest of the town.
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On May 23 2014 14:59 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 15:56 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 15:01 geript wrote:On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:00 Cavalinho wrote:
WoS, look into Steveling. HF is town and Hapa is also probably town.
I'm boggled by the fact that marv said having a huge filter is good for town. It's not when there's nothing there but useless garbage that clogs up the thread and doesn't accomplish anything.
Also, who said we should lynch layabout? When you're talking about a guy that gets lynched day 1/2 a lot, maybe, just maybe you should take the quality of their play into consideration. Maybe I'm biased because I got lynched day 1 a lot for stupid reasons, but I still really want to kill Steveling today over anything and everything else for the moment.
I'd be really wary of people who say that just having a big filter is good for town. Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. If by all the time, you mean his one game as town... On May 22 2014 08:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:04 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:00 Cavalinho wrote:
WoS, look into Steveling. HF is town and Hapa is also probably town.
I'm boggled by the fact that marv said having a huge filter is good for town. It's not when there's nothing there but useless garbage that clogs up the thread and doesn't accomplish anything.
Also, who said we should lynch layabout? When you're talking about a guy that gets lynched day 1/2 a lot, maybe, just maybe you should take the quality of their play into consideration. Maybe I'm biased because I got lynched day 1 a lot for stupid reasons, but I still really want to kill Steveling today over anything and everything else for the moment.
I'd be really wary of people who say that just having a big filter is good for town. Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. Before we start arguing, I want to know what "genuine" is. Genuine can be many things. What's "townie" about his filter is that he's constantly posting without thinking, getting into many fights, and is generally wearing his emotions on his sleeve. Contrast this with normal mafia instincts to hide, avoid conflict, etc. Also, look at his past games and compare them to this one. If you haven't done that, then your analysis is meaningless. I have. I pointed out that he's gotten in shit fights as scum before. As a matter of fact, as town, he got in far less shitfights AND his posting was far more full of actual content. On May 22 2014 08:18 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:12 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:04 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:00 Cavalinho wrote:
WoS, look into Steveling. HF is town and Hapa is also probably town.
I'm boggled by the fact that marv said having a huge filter is good for town. It's not when there's nothing there but useless garbage that clogs up the thread and doesn't accomplish anything.
Also, who said we should lynch layabout? When you're talking about a guy that gets lynched day 1/2 a lot, maybe, just maybe you should take the quality of their play into consideration. Maybe I'm biased because I got lynched day 1 a lot for stupid reasons, but I still really want to kill Steveling today over anything and everything else for the moment.
I'd be really wary of people who say that just having a big filter is good for town. Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. Before we start arguing, I want to know what "genuine" is. Genuine can be many things. What's "townie" about his filter is that he's constantly posting without thinking, getting into many fights, and is generally wearing his emotions on his sleeve. Contrast this with normal mafia instincts to hide, avoid conflict, etc. Also, look at his past games and compare them to this one. If you haven't done that, then your analysis is meaningless. I've played with him before. He is doing the exact same thing he was doing in Cell, making people feel smart and getting people to ignore him. It's spammier than normal, but that's not the issue that I have with him. Like some of the players right now are just calling it boring (Koshi) without trying to see if it's legitimately true or not. Why is this not an issue for you? Nothing in this post describes why Steveling is scum. You compare his play in Cell to his play here, but they look very different at first glance to me. He is definetely active in Cell, but seems a lot more calm. Compared to this game, he's picking fights and is generally an attention-whore. He was pretty whorish too. Plus for getting in as many fights as he's had, in all of those, he's been the calm one in them. He's the one who cares about whether or not he gets in trouble for it. On May 22 2014 08:23 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:20 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:18 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:12 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 22 2014 08:04 Cavalinho wrote:On May 22 2014 08:03 Hapahauli wrote:
[quote]
Steveling would be a terrible lynch. I get that you don't like his play, and his play is very spammy, but it's also very clearly town. Just because his spam is "contentless" doesn't mean it isn't genuine. Look at some of his other games - he plays like that all the time. Before we start arguing, I want to know what "genuine" is. Genuine can be many things. What's "townie" about his filter is that he's constantly posting without thinking, getting into many fights, and is generally wearing his emotions on his sleeve. Contrast this with normal mafia instincts to hide, avoid conflict, etc. Also, look at his past games and compare them to this one. If you haven't done that, then your analysis is meaningless. I've played with him before. He is doing the exact same thing he was doing in Cell, making people feel smart and getting people to ignore him. It's spammier than normal, but that's not the issue that I have with him. Like some of the players right now are just calling it boring (Koshi) without trying to see if it's legitimately true or not. Why is this not an issue for you? Nothing in this post describes why Steveling is scum. You compare his play in Cell to his play here, but they look very different at first glance to me. He is definetely active in Cell, but seems a lot more calm. Compared to this game, he's picking fights and is generally an attention-whore. Then check my filter for the big, red-titled post on why I thought he was scum. But that's the thing - those types of posts you point out "after the spam" really aren't present in Cell Mafia. He just seems as a whole so much more hyper and emotional in this game. Anyway, talk to me about some other people. Layabout, tambo, ritoky, etc. I agree that his play on face value looks different from Cell. But it also looks exceptionally different from Glory Hole. The trends in his play are far more reflective is his Cell game than his Gloryhole game. Like I really don't get how you could meta a player so awfully. Mine explaining why you've protected Scumeling so many times on bad meta? I really don't know how to say it any better than I have: the guy has a fucking 10 page filter in 24 hours. If you think mafia can do that, you're insane. But then again, I really don't feel like arguing any more since... a) There's no way I'm going to convince someone confirmation biased enough to call the guy "scumelling" over and overa gain.b) Steveling isn't getting lynched. My target of choice is. c) The "oats-whisperer" does not get to lecture me on how to interpret meta cases. From my reading of the thread you were one of the people who switched votes onto Odin for not an outright stated justification in the thread. It seemed to me to be following behind Kush primarily, but even then you did a lot of hedging saying Val was probably a better target. So I have two questions for you if you wouldn't mind obliging me. 1) Can you state clearly why you switched your vote onto Odin? 2) You made a very large deal about geript having confirmation bias blinding him about steveling, so where was that same concern about BH having confirmation bias against Odin in regards to the case he made? (see bolded part and convo above)
1) See my above post.
2) Well the bottom line is that I thought Geript's case was bad, whereas I thought BH's case was good. There's not much more to it than that.
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On May 24 2014 00:58 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 00:55 Hapahauli wrote:On May 23 2014 14:30 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 14:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 23 2014 13:57 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 13:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Hm. That lynch result was unfortunate. Though the good news is that we have a lot of material to work with - these crazy late vote swaps always generate good information.
I'll be reading the buildup to the lynch tomorrow, as I just drove 8 hours and I'm dead tired. My first instinct is to look into players on the Odin wagon that followed Blazinghand's RNG lynch as opposed to lynching Odin for actually being suspicious of him. Yell0w stuck with his early RNG vote on Odin despite having several other scum-reads in his filter. Alakaslam never mentioned a scum-read on Odin either (other the RNG stuff). Not sure if that's just Slam being Slam, but that's objectively pretty terrible.
Obviously there are more people to look into than the two I mentioned above - Cavalihno's case looks interesting at first glance, and I'll need to verify that myself after I get some sleep. Tambo essentially wasting his vote late in the cycle is also very bad.
Since several people expressed concern about my own actions during the lynch, I can't defend myself other than simply not being able to post while driving on a highway. My travel schedule today was terrible, and I really wish I could have been around for the deadline.
Instead, I had a very short time to get acquainted with BlazingHand's case, saw a bunch of reputable players follow it, and kinda just went with the flow. Given the result and hindsight, I very much regret how it played out, but there was very little I could do today to help it. can you name the reputable players without looking and also say if you think they are town this game Marv/Kita/BH off the top of my head. The thing is, it doesn't really matter if they're town. Given that there are multiple factions, it's highly likely that mafia and town can have similar objectives (lynching other factions). If you want my surface reads on them... BH = Town Kita = Null Marv = Slight-Town Of course it matters if they're town because you want to find not-town people and they could be pushing agendas as not town?? Are you solely saying that you followed them because their names were all up there and pretty like? Now that you know he was town do they look more suspicious to you for providing 0 reasoning for lynching odin? Kita doesn't even mention wanting to lynch odin at all afaik in his entire filter. On May 23 2014 06:34 kitaman27 wrote:
There were a couple of people who voted for Odin based on a "logically sound case", rather than actually sharing a belief that he was mafia.
I know some may consider this a matter of semantics here, but I put some value into it. Will look back later. ^ does that look more strange to you now considering that? Kita falls into that category of people but he wants to look into those people. Does that make sense? I don't know - I'm going to look at the lynch right now and see what I find. But yes I sorta just went with the flow on the last lynch, basically because their names were "shiny". There's really not much else I can do while driving. Was it a good idea in hindsight? Probably not. I did manage to skim the BlazingHand case enough to think it was pretty good (as did many other people), and thought my vote would be of better use consolidating with the rest of the town. What about the kita stuff? :p
Told you - I'm looking into it now. Expect a larger post in an hour or so.
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On May 24 2014 00:58 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 00:55 Hapahauli wrote:On May 23 2014 14:30 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 14:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 23 2014 13:57 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 13:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Hm. That lynch result was unfortunate. Though the good news is that we have a lot of material to work with - these crazy late vote swaps always generate good information.
I'll be reading the buildup to the lynch tomorrow, as I just drove 8 hours and I'm dead tired. My first instinct is to look into players on the Odin wagon that followed Blazinghand's RNG lynch as opposed to lynching Odin for actually being suspicious of him. Yell0w stuck with his early RNG vote on Odin despite having several other scum-reads in his filter. Alakaslam never mentioned a scum-read on Odin either (other the RNG stuff). Not sure if that's just Slam being Slam, but that's objectively pretty terrible.
Obviously there are more people to look into than the two I mentioned above - Cavalihno's case looks interesting at first glance, and I'll need to verify that myself after I get some sleep. Tambo essentially wasting his vote late in the cycle is also very bad.
Since several people expressed concern about my own actions during the lynch, I can't defend myself other than simply not being able to post while driving on a highway. My travel schedule today was terrible, and I really wish I could have been around for the deadline.
Instead, I had a very short time to get acquainted with BlazingHand's case, saw a bunch of reputable players follow it, and kinda just went with the flow. Given the result and hindsight, I very much regret how it played out, but there was very little I could do today to help it. can you name the reputable players without looking and also say if you think they are town this game Marv/Kita/BH off the top of my head. The thing is, it doesn't really matter if they're town. Given that there are multiple factions, it's highly likely that mafia and town can have similar objectives (lynching other factions). If you want my surface reads on them... BH = Town Kita = Null Marv = Slight-Town Of course it matters if they're town because you want to find not-town people and they could be pushing agendas as not town?? Are you solely saying that you followed them because their names were all up there and pretty like? Now that you know he was town do they look more suspicious to you for providing 0 reasoning for lynching odin? Kita doesn't even mention wanting to lynch odin at all afaik in his entire filter. On May 23 2014 06:34 kitaman27 wrote:
There were a couple of people who voted for Odin based on a "logically sound case", rather than actually sharing a belief that he was mafia.
I know some may consider this a matter of semantics here, but I put some value into it. Will look back later. ^ does that look more strange to you now considering that? Kita falls into that category of people but he wants to look into those people. Does that make sense? I don't know - I'm going to look at the lynch right now and see what I find. But yes I sorta just went with the flow on the last lynch, basically because their names were "shiny". There's really not much else I can do while driving. Was it a good idea in hindsight? Probably not. I did manage to skim the BlazingHand case enough to think it was pretty good (as did many other people), and thought my vote would be of better use consolidating with the rest of the town. What about the kita stuff? :p
Errr Holyflare... you realize that Kita didn't vote for Odin, right? He kept his vote on Valeinus the whole time.
Which is also my mistake as well, because I could have freggin sworn that he did when I made my own vote.
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On May 23 2014 05:00 ShiaoPi wrote:VOTE COUNT: mtamburini (8): Tehpoofter, Hapahauli, Alakaslam, mattisfoolish, Xatalos, Cavalinho, Holyflare, thrawn2112, BlueyD, marvellosity, jampidampi, 27ninjabunnies, bkqyrldp, austinmcc, layabout, Steveling, Meapak_Ziphh Valenius (2): Meapak_Ziphh, Hapahauli, Tehpoofter, OnceKing, marvellosity, Hapahauli, Xatalos, kitaman27, sqrtofneg1 geript (0): Holyflare, StevelingKoshi (0): ValeniusSteveling (0): Holyflare, Cavalinho, geriptAlakaslam (0): kushm4sta, kushm4staHapahauli (0): kushm4staYell0w (1): Tehpoofter, Tehpoofter, BlueyDXatalos (0): jampidampi, marvellosity, Koshi, thrawn2112, kushm4stajampidampi (0): sqrtofneg1, Xatalos, Xatalos27ninjabunnies (1): Cephiro sqrtofneg1 (0): kitaman27bkqyrldp (0): marvellosityOdinOfPergo (13): Blazinghand, Steveling, Xatalos, Yell0w, Alakaslam, Alakaslam, kushm4sta, Xatalos, Koshi, OnceKing, marvellosity, Hapahauli, thrawn2112, bkqyrldp, Cavalinho, Valenius, Holyflare Holyflare (1): WaveofShadow, Xatalos, Steveling, Steveling, sqrtofneg1WaveofShadow (0): kitaman27, bkqyrldpBlazinghand (1): Tehpoofter, OdinofPergo, geript, marvellosity, geript thrawn2112 (0): 27ninjabunniesmarvellosity (0): kushm4stalayabout (1): jampidampi, Koshi, OnceKing, marvellosity, ritoky ritoky (0): austinmcc, layaboutBlueyD (0): kitaman27Tehpoofter (1): mtamburini Not voting (2): MysterMeat1, OdinofPergo OdinOfPergo was lynched with 13 votes!
I'm going to use the above votecount to structure my thoughts. By looking at the votes, we can get a better idea about the motivations of certain players, and it can help identify certain mafia tells that might be present in a multi-faction game. I'm dividing posters into 3 categories:
- People off of the main wagons
- People who voted Odin
- People who voted Tambo
People off of the main wagons:
There's a good chance that certain mafia/faction members will want to "blend-in" and "hide", and one very instinctual way of doing that is to avoid the main course of discussion, take "non-controversial" stances, and avoid contributing by pursuing/voting someone who is not being talked about and has very little chance of getting lynched.
In this category of players, we have:
mtamburini
rikoty
geript
Cephiro
Tehpoofter
kitaman
sqrtofneg1
WaveofShadow
I'm going to start with Mafia Reads, move to Null Reads, and then to Townies:
Mtamburini
+ Show Spoiler +Mtamburini's vote looks extremely bad by all accounts. On May 23 2014 03:45 mtamburini wrote:I Vote:: tehpoofterwhy? No one else has and I can be the first one to say in post game if he is scum to say I TOLD YOU SO MOFOS harharharhar Tehpoofter had virtually no chance of getting lynched yesterday, and this is the definition of a wasted vote by all accounts. His reasoning for placing his vote where it was is also pretty suspect: why?
No one else has and I can be the first one to say in post game if he is scum to say I TOLD YOU SO MOFOS On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote:I have a lot of reading to catch up on so if I had to found scum based on the first 45 pages of this game I probably couldnt do so. poofter was in my initial scum reads moving towards null.... On May 23 2014 04:59 mtamburini wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 04:38 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote:On May 23 2014 04:26 Xatalos wrote:
What was that vote, mtamburini...? I have a lot of reading to catch up on so if I had to found scum based on the first 45 pages of this game I probably couldnt do so. poofter was in my initial scum reads moving towards null. Im not going to vote on bunnies because I think she might be town and just needs some time to cool off and get her head in gear. As the days go on my game will improve. With regards to my interactions with people Ive played with before I know I have a better chance of getting a read off them then smoeone I do not know so I will look at them first before anyone else. hey i thought after your long post the ONLY read you had was that steveling was scummy/null to you and that was it? where did this first 45 page poofter read come from? tehpoofter uses sarcasm as either allignment but you can usually tell by the tone of his sarcasm what allignement he is. From his initial posts Im reading the sarcasm as more scummy then towny All of this is really strange. The first two quotes can be barely considered reads. The 3rd quote is extremely manufactured and makes very little sense - tambo had never mentioned tehpoofters "sarcasm" all game, and then it shows up in a very mystical and unexplained read (what is the difference between town/mafia sarcasm?). Quote #2 is additionally strange - he voted a read (tehpoofter) that he felt was moving from Scummy to Null. Not only is this really weak, but he did so over Bunnies, who he's been seemingly tunneling most of the game, and has explicitly called her a strong scum-read in earlier posts. His rationale for not voting Bunnies is weak and makes little sense: On May 23 2014 04:36 mtamburini wrote:... Im not going to vote on bunnies because I think she might be town and just needs some time to cool off and get her head in gear. ... To understand why this makes so little sense, read this post... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?page=45#896...then read page 3 of his filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/440546-golden-sun-the-lost-age-mafia-djinn-edition?user=mtamburini&page=3He doesn't vote a scumread because he believes that scumread could be town, but then votes tehpoofter (his "scummy moving to null" read) because... man I don't even know.
sqrtofneg1
+ Show Spoiler +His deadline behavior is pretty strange. After he comes back a couple of hours before lynch deadline, he quickly establishes a town-read on Odin... On May 23 2014 03:03 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Okay, looking at Odin's filter myself, I think he's just a vanilla townie.
Scum would try harder to get out of it. As a vanilla townie, he wouldn't care. On May 23 2014 03:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
I recommend lynching Val.
Odin may seem scum, but I think he's VT. It's a very poorly explained town-read. His point about "Odin not trying to get out of the lynch" doesn't make much sense either, since Odin had stated earlier he'd be gone until the deadline. Futhermore, Odin was under very little pressure at the time he said that. It seems more like he's trying to justify not voting for Odin as opposed to being sincere with his read. Sqrt then pops down a very "clean" vote on Valenius... ... then POOF! He's gone for the last two hours of shenanigans! Despite having a town read on Odin, he never seems to try and act on it to prevent it. He disappears... then instantly reappears at lynch deadline! This is a really suspicious 2 hours of absence. Another *really* odd thing about his filter is how many town reads he gives out over the course of the game. He gives them out like candy, is seemingly confident in a lot of them, and... yeah. I'm not sure if this is a mafia tell in this particular setup, but it's something that definetely caught my eye on a readthrough.
Cephiro
+ Show Spoiler +Given that Cephiro was AFK for the last half of the day, it's hard for me to get an accurate read on him. However the first half of his day 1 play seems like it would come from some sort of faction.
I won't talk much about the contents of his big case. What's more important is that he didn't talk about anything other than his case on bunnies at all. This lines up with the idea of a faction wanting to "hunt" for players, but not necessarily interested in contributing to town discussion.
Again, hard to make a complete read on him due to him being AFK for a while, but his play objectively fits pretty well with how I'd think a faction member hunting other faction members would approach this game: find a target, push him/her, and really not contribute to town discussion otherwise.
Ritoky
+ Show Spoiler +Hard to say. His play is pretty short and straightforward. He believed layabout was scum, voted him, and then had to step out: On May 22 2014 19:48 ritoky wrote:
Well, I am going to sleep and I am not sure if I will make it back before the deadline.
For me it's between WOS and layabout.
WOS contributes and I basically don't like much of anything he says.
Layabout doesn't contribute, and when he does its mostly shit filling.
Gonna go with layabout. ##vote layabout Nothing in his filter that screams his alignment one way or the other.
WaveofShadow
+ Show Spoiler +Well he replaced out. This makes a lot of his lack of interest and activity in the latter half of the game pretty explainable. I wasn't altogether please with his play (especially his stuff on Holyflare), but it's better not to make judgements about an incomplete filter and let his replacement talk some.
Geript I believe to be town. Geript is extremely active and emotional this game. His tunnels seem very genuine, and while he ended up on BlazingHand, he definitely was very involved in the chaos and discussion of the day. He's drawn a ton of attention to himself, and really isn't someone I'm concerned about.
Tehpoofter I'm less sure about, but I think he's town. He's playing extraordinarily different from his scum-game in You Only Shoot Once, and was fairly active/involved early on. He was afk for the last ~24 hours of the day (not changing his vote or posting at all), which leads me to believe his vote being off of one of the main wagons is a null-tell. Based on his early day behavior, I give him a moderate town read, with the expectation that he continues that in future days.
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Parts 2 and 3 coming up - I just wanted to get this down before I unplugged my computer.
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On May 24 2014 03:32 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 03:26 Blazinghand wrote:On May 24 2014 03:25 layabout wrote:
That case on y3llow is horrific and i would normally call it pretty scummy tbh. Being absent during the last 3 hours of the day (which is when the odin wagon started in earnest) is not something that we can necessarily infer things from because we have no way of knowing if the absence is legitimate. That's a narrative, a few quotes and no argument with some added complaining about doing work for the thread. the dude was absent for way more than the last 3 hours of the day tho and he hasn't veen back since then so yewah, get served "dude" your first game of mafia wasn't even student it was the 80 player one @ hapa cephiro was one of if not the first players to move the discussion into the realms of because of A and B player C is Mafia
You are 100% correct. However in a multi-faction game, pursuing a read genuinely is not a town-tell.
Had he contributed at all to discussion out side of Bunnies (hell had he did anything outside of tunneling a single person), I might think differently of his play. But he didn't.
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@ Austin
I still don't find Valenius town. My vote-switch at the end is entirely explained by my travel schedule and my lack of time to post anything of substance in the last minute scramble. I posted two of my last 3 posts from traffic, and my vote post from a rest-stop.
I made the fact that I would be busier than normal this game both before the game and the lynch. I really don't know how I could make it any clearer than that.
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And furthermore, that case by you Austin really doesn't say much about me being mafia.
Consider this: I am a factional player and I believe Valenius to be of another faction. Why would I not attempt to tunnel my top scumread to death and push my objective? Hell pushing Valenius would point MORE to be being mafia in this game.
Instead, I tried to do something pro-town in what little time I had and help the consolidation onto another lynch. Am I happy with the way it turned out? Not really. I should have taken far more time to read BH"s post, instead of reading it once quickly, seeing a bunch of vote swaps, and going with the flow.
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On May 24 2014 04:28 OnceKing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 04:21 Hapahauli wrote:
(snip)
Consider this: I am a factional player and I believe Valenius to be of another faction. Why would I not attempt to tunnel my top scumread to death and push my objective? Hell pushing Valenius would point MORE to be being mafia in this game.
(snip) Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 04:12 austinmcc wrote:
This makes it appear that Hapa doesn't actually have a real read on Valenius, because his read/vote never develop in the right way. People who don't have real reads are making them up. Making reads up is bad and a mafia thing.
you're not addressing his case/premise he's suggesting that valenius is not actually a real scum read
That also makes zero sense though. Why would I fake a scum-read in-thread as a faction hunting another faction? That makes all sorts of little sense, because I'd be wasting time doing something incredibly dangerous for no more town credit than building an actual case.
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EPT
