EPT[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
So nice to play a normal, non-crazily-themed mini-mafia game again ^^ | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On January 21 2014 09:15 marvellosity wrote: So nice to see you playing any game :/ A sanity break was required But I missed you too <3 | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 21 2014 09:21 marvellosity wrote: So how the deuce do you start an all-vanilla game anyways? I think we need to grab one more person, then start a circle-jerk, then wait for someone to invariably make a stupid case, then rip each other's throats out for the next 48 hours until we last-minute mislynch some townie. That's how I remember it working anyway. It's been a while. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
In the mean time... On January 21 2014 08:27 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm town. And damn sexy. Lynch all lairs. EZ game. ##Vote VisceraEyes | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On January 21 2014 09:31 kitaman27 wrote: Not much of a plan if you're going to warn people about what you're looking for. ##Vote Sandroba (Did you catch me?) Normally, even early-game troll votes have some pretense to find someone suspicious/mafia (even if stretched alot). This post doesn't follow. It doesn't call Sandroba scum in any joking/trolling way. You're just calling his actions dumb, then voting for them. Which is a pretty scummy thought process. How are you constructing Sandroba's post to be scummy as opposed to just stupid? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On January 21 2014 10:34 kitaman27 wrote: What do you think? Do you think I'm trying to paint sandroba in a bad light using my "scummy thought process" like you mentioned or do you think that it was a random vote with little thought? Now that you've found something scummy that I've done, am I a better vote than VE? Your post seemed serious enough for me to read into the logic. But you say it's a random thoughtless vote so alas. Certainly didn't seem like one to me though. Either way, are you specifically trying target Sandroba, or is this something "random" you latched onto in the thread? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On January 21 2014 10:51 WaveofShadow wrote: lol I'm really hoping you're not scum kita. Nah no reason to vote sandroba yet. Not only is there basically nothing to vote him for, I've seen what he's capable of as the game progresses (from PYP) and if he is town and plays this game anything like that, he'll start slow and then start bringing the pain to scum. I don't understand your reasoning here. What does him being a "slow-starter" have to do with not wanting to vote for him? For example, wouldn't it be arguably good to put pressure on him early to determine his alignment? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 21 2014 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote: ... Hapa, do you see yourself getting shot N1 in this game? I go into every game wanting to be the towniest townie that will be obv-shot N1. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On January 21 2014 11:28 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not voting him as a joke. I think he is a great vote. We should lynch him today. Why is he a great vote and/or lynch? I really don't understand what your objective is here given a recent post of yours... On January 21 2014 10:34 kitaman27 wrote: ... Do you think I'm trying to paint sandroba in a bad light using my "scummy thought process" like you mentioned or do you think that it was a random vote with little thought? ... | ||
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Hapahauli
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All I got from your post was "we should lynch lurkers, but not discuss it." ...which isn't really policy discussion. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Hapahauli
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On January 21 2014 11:47 Promethelax wrote: ... Since I am town that means you and I shall discuss other people. In this case VE and this post: You see VE knows how to say things. But this post doesn't say things. This post, when the fluff is removed says that we should let Sandroba do his own thing because no matter what he'll do his own thing and that Sandroba may or may not catch scum. It shows such a lack of curiosity that I am disturbed. Do you, Hapa, agree? y/n? Yeah I agree. I've been put off by VE's posting so far, mostly because he's been one of the more active people in the thread and hasn't managed to post anything substantive. It's reminiscent of my last few voice mafia games with him, where he's willing to talk a lot about irrelevant things at length, while ignoring attempts at any meaningful discussion. My initial vote on him was random, but I like where it's parked right now. Will you go on a date with me y/n? What's your favorite restaurant? I'll make the reservations <3 | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On January 21 2014 11:53 kitaman27 wrote: I can't point out all the scummy things he posts if he hasn't posted yet. If you were to vote for him then maybe he will respond and I'd have something to give you. Sounds like a win-win to me! Can we talk about something serious? What do you think of VE? He's the topic du-jour. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 21 2014 12:06 WaveofShadow wrote: ... I'm fine with VE for now for reasons stated earlier. What does bother me a little Hapa (and I'll admit, bothers me every time this is brought up by anyone in any game) is your comparison of VE's play to voice mafia games. There is very little if any indication at all that you can base people's play in forum games on how they play on TS. Par example (though not the only one), in voice mafia I am supremely confident, can sniff out scum with just a few words from them, and play mafia really damn well. Would you say that describes my forum mafia play? Essentially text and forum-based games are way too different to make proper comparisons in my opinion, and I would really think that you'd be aware of that. I agree that they're different, and there's no way I'd lynch VE on his voice-meta alone. However his early-game so far is objectively scummy, independent of his voice-mafia play. I only mentioned the voice-mafia stuff because its worth noting how eerily similar it is so far. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 21 2014 12:02 kitaman27 wrote: I can't call VE scummy, else he will vote for me. I KNOW YOUR SECRETS. I'd rather talk about marv. He suggest that the all vanilla setup makes things difficult to start off rather than attempting to generate conversation. That's an interesting observation about marv, but there's just not much to talk about given the context of his posting (Page 1, Day 1 fluff), not to mention that he hasn't been around for any of the recent discussion. I'd rather talk about people who are posting now or have atleast some content worth analyzing. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On January 21 2014 12:16 kitaman27 wrote:...The reason to random vote sandroba is because he is incredibly lazy and notorious for getting away without posting on day one. Well... why wouldn't you post this before? Regardless, several players have mentioned that sandroba isn't going to respond to pressure anyway, so I don't see the point here. Hapa appears to identify that it would be a good idea to try to apply pressure to a slow starter, yet later suggests that he can't understand my objective. I understand your motive. What I don't understand is how you think it's going to work when you've already undermined yourself several times. There's no point in making a random pressure vote on a player when you've already stated that it's poorly justified and random. Rather than trying to contribute to the pressure, he is satisfied with asking serious questions such as "Why is he a great vote?", when I think it is pretty obvious that there isn't any content in the thread to justify it. Why would I want to contribute to troll-pressure? I want to start serious discussion, and not dabble in random unjustified votes. The sooner we can get away from this random voting shit, the better it will be for town. | ||
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Hapahauli
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However, I do feel that VE is scummy for the reasons that you're suspicious of Wave: I find very few of his questions relevant thus far. I don't see what he is looking for. Nothing VE has said has been relevant so far. There are no objectives in his gameplay beyond cracking "witty" 1-lined responses. VE's gameplay so far gives me the impression that he's more interested in irrelevant small-talk than finding a read, pursuing an objective, or even promoting discussion. Hell, Isn't it strange for someone with 10 posts this early not to have said a single damn relevant thing? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 21 2014 12:40 WaveofShadow wrote: I get a feel for reads through conversation. My questions to Hapa/Prome are to try and get a feel for them while creating conversation at the same time. When I'm curious about something or something strikes me odd, I mention it. I'm not sure why that isn't obvious to you. So what's your feeling of myself and Prome as of now? Any other reads worth mentioning? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 21 2014 12:54 VisceraEyes wrote: I'll say something when there's something worth saying. I eagerly await these contributions, though is there nothing worth saying at the moment? Anything objectively scummy in my play? Bring it up Hapa. This is subjective, and it's VE we're talking about. I've think I've summed up quite adequately my read on you. If you'd like to ignore all of that and call it "subjective", you're welcome to do so, but it will do you no favors come lynchtime. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 21 2014 12:59 VisceraEyes wrote: Hapapapapaaaaaa I'm here no questions? Nothing? I'm voting for someone you know, no thoughts about that? Just my one-liner machine-gun-like posting style isn't palatable? I mean, call an apple an apple friend. So you're voting Prome, yet you claim there's nothing worth saying. But since you ask for questions... how serious is your vote on Prome on a scale from 1-10 (1 being trolly, 10 being sooper srs)? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 21 2014 13:01 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm voting for Prome because he immediately asked you a question about me that applied to Wave equally, and then made up some nonsense reasoning as to why it applied to me but not Wave. That's not odd to you? Not particularly. What's more odd to me is how unwilling you've been to pursue this scumread on Prome despite how active he's been in the thread the past few hours. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 21 2014 13:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Meta. External factors that have split my attention. I'm here, now, doing it, so what's the problem? Awesome. The problem is that I just don't understand your case. You're voting him for being "illogical" in your view. How is him being illogical scummy as opposed to simply illogical. Anyway, all you need to know about my stance on Prome is that I thought his entrance and attitude was very townie. Honestly VE, there's not much you can say to defend yourself from my suspicions. The only way you can defend yourself from posting no content is to... well... post content. I'll judge whether my vote is in the right place based on how you contribute over the next ~40 hours. On January 21 2014 13:06 VisceraEyes wrote: Like, you're entirely skirting around me trying to discuss this with you, while accusing me of not discussing it. Is anyone else seeing this? What's there for me to say? Prome gave reasons for the difference, and I find them logical/believable. You do not. It's on you to prove that his reasons are inadequate. | ||
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Hapahauli
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You first vote him based on this... On January 21 2014 11:46 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay okay okay. So let me get this straight. EVERYONE is suspicious..because we started the game...without you? ##Unvote ##Vote Promethelax OMGUSM (OMGUS MORE) ...which hardly seems serious. On January 21 2014 11:50 VisceraEyes wrote: COUNTERQUESTION PROMETHELAX! WHY HAPAHAULI AND NOT VE, WHO POSTED THE FUCKING POST IN QUESTION?!?!?!?!? Then a counterquestion, to which Prome replied... On January 21 2014 11:52 Promethelax wrote: WoS had a question that feels curious, in my experience curious people are more often town than scum. VE felt fluffy. WoS felt curious. Reasonable? No. True? Yes. Often accurate? Yes. ...to which you haven't addressed, and here we are talking about how your read is a 10/10. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 21 2014 13:16 VisceraEyes wrote: I think if he's town he's biased and it's bullshit to be so biased already, but whatever. It makes him more likely to be scum to me, but no, I'm reading him as town presently. I don't follow. My pressure on you is scummy, but you're reading me as town? On January 21 2014 13:17 VisceraEyes wrote: It's just one of those things that may or may not end up adding up to something. Prome's thing is worse to me because he literally made up reasoning to respond to me. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. Fluffy? What does that even mean? I'll leave it to Prome to back up his arguments. I'm suspicious of you for other reasons that I've stated. Regardless, what about Prome's arguments are malicious, as opposed to just being a stupid argument? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 21 2014 15:59 Foolishness wrote: You and Hapa are two townies that are arguing with each other over nothing. Fair enough. ##Unvote VE's responses seem very emotional and townie. Almost identical to how he responded to my case against him in the Duke Nukem Hydra Mini. Really no point in any more pressure. Foolish, can you elaborate on your Wave thing? All I see is a pretty standard opening post that you quoted in your vote. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 21 2014 17:49 Holyflare wrote: Why did you feel the need to justify your new read on VE (based on meta) with a quote from foolish saying you are both town? Foolish's post echoed my sentiments, and tipped me over to unvoting. It's not a justification - it's more my own reference point. Only to then ask him to only elaborate on wave and not the reasons he thinks you are both town? Free town cred is nice but not if the person it's coming from is questionable. As far as him elaborating on the other reads goes, I thought his rationale was straightforward and short. His read on wave is 10000x more interesting to me than the town reads. As for yourself Holy, have you gleaned anything from the thread yet? Your entrance is plenty critical of myself and Foolish's play, but doesn't say anything about our alignments. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Fucked up the quoting a bit there: On January 21 2014 17:49 Holyflare wrote: Why did you feel the need to justify your new read on VE (based on meta) with a quote from foolish saying you are both town? Foolish's post echoed my sentiments, and tipped me over to unvoting. It's not a justification - it's more my own reference point. Only to then ask him to only elaborate on wave and not the reasons he thinks you are both town? Free town cred is nice but not if the person it's coming from is questionable. As far as him elaborating on the other reads goes, I thought his rationale was straightforward and short. His read on wave is 10000x more interesting to me than the town reads. As for yourself Holy, have you gleaned anything from the thread yet? Your entrance is plenty critical of myself and Foolish's play, but doesn't say anything about our alignments. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 22 2014 04:44 sandroba wrote: I actually don't have a problem with prom/wos interaction in particular, that first post and fishing for hapa's comment on it is what fells weird and scripted to me. I'd like to hear from hapa if he thinks it felt fake too. I think his first post was scripted, but it's not really alignment indicative. I'm leaning town on Prome from his general attitude on early Day 1, since he was the first person to make a serious accusation and move the discussion forward. Also, his posting has a "bravado" about it that I don't think would come from scum. So I think his current line of posting is townie, though that could change should his interest level wane for the next few days. @ Holy On January 21 2014 22:05 Holyflare wrote: ... You used a post from a player that has had 0 contribution to the game as a platform for you to further your paradigm of VE. Not only is that strange but you do not question HOW he could have those reads (something you absolutely should because how else do you learn about another player's mindset?) The only thing you question is his read on wave. You should absolutely not be happy when someone calls you or someone else town for no reasoning and should be questioning it as you have been questioning mostly everything for the entirety of the game. I think you assume that I think and plan my early-game posts more than I do. As a reference, I basically spazz post anything and everything on early day 1 to start discussion, because I feel that starting things up is 1000x more important than avoiding suspicion on me from the inevitable person that's never played with me before and misunderstands my motives (you). Now I quoted Foolishness, not out of some thoughtful consideration, but because his post echoed a sentiment that I was feeling at the time. It is not some magical platform - it was coincidence, and therefore I quoted it. As for why I didn't pursue Foolishness's town reads on myself and VE - it was because his logic was self-evident: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 15:59 Foolishness wrote: You and Hapa are two townies that are arguing with each other over nothing. It's short rationale, but it's pretty clear and straightforward. If you play enough games, these early-game town-on-town arguments happen all the time, and make for a pretty good justification to call two people town. Perhaps I should have been more critical, but its easy to gloss over things when you agree with them. As for not being more critical of the read on myself... well I'm fucking obviously town. That much should be clear from my early-game interest level, and the multitude of players calling me town so early (citing my lack of interest level when I'm mafia in general). I don't understand the mindset behind this. You suggest we find his alignment by way of pressure but then give into the sentiment of other players of which you do not know the alignment of and say that we should not pressure him because he won't respond instead of taking the initiative of your confirmed alignment to yourself and pressuring sandroba yourself. This isn't something a townie mindset does at all. I'm interested to hear your reasoning before I put my vote down on you though because there's no reason being hasty. The mindset is that I'm playing devil's advocate with two players. I really don't care about my own consistency - I just care about making them respond. Why do you assume that it is retroactive justification instead of new evidence coming to light after a troll vote? What he was saying made sense and prome's opening post seemed like it was pre-written before he even read any of the game. I'll get into this later when I have the time and get back but for now I'll leave you to talk about what i've said above. You know I'm not voting VE anymore right? You know I have a town-read on VE now, right? Once again, in my early-game play, I'm going to latch onto anything I can and make a case out of it. It's not important for me to be right this early, it's important for people to post. I think you're taking the logic of an early-game case far too seriously. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Realistically though, what is your opinion of Gonzaw's style? I haven't played with him before and I'm not in right now so can't check up on it. Why is he spending so much time on foolishness? This is such a strange question. 1) Why are you talking about him spending so much time on foolishness, when you haven't addressed any of his arguments? Especially... you know... the largest post in the thread currently? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=18#359 2) What is relevant about gonzaw's style so far? He's posted the most content in the thread and has done the most scumhunting of anyone. I don't know how you could raise any questions about his style given what he's posted. 3) Your attitude on Foolishness makes no goddamn sense. In this post, you're deflecting attention from him and puzzled on how gonzaw could spend time on him. Why is he spending so much time on foolishness? ...yet in your posts addressed to me, you repeatedly call foolishness sketchy, scummy, and are generally suspicious of him and his sparse posting. What gives? | ||
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Hapahauli
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Hapahauli
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On January 22 2014 06:07 gonzaw wrote: Well Hapa, it's not strange if he's scum isn't it? Yes, naturally. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Yet I see you questioning gonzaw for making inquiries into said player. | ||
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Hapahauli
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What is your feeling on gonzaw's meta case on Foolishness? And still, why do you feel that Foolishness is not worth talking about? Even if he has sparely posted, there's not all that much else to talk about in-thread currently, and there's sufficient rationale to be making judgements off Foolishness' posts so far. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 22 2014 07:37 marvellosity wrote: ok he can stay for now ##unvote Would this suggest that you agree with Fool's reads, or do you just think his post is a town-tell? Do you think he's capable of faking those kinds of posts as scum? | ||
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Hapahauli
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1) Gonzaw's Cases: I'll talk about Foolishness below, mostly because of the recent wall-o-text. As for VE, I'm liking VE for town right now. This is the post that really made me change my mind on him: On January 21 2014 13:16 VisceraEyes wrote: I think if he's town he's biased and it's bullshit to be so biased already, but whatever. It makes him more likely to be scum to me, but no, I'm reading him as town presently. This is a mentality spot on for a townie who thinks he's being unfairly tunneled. Very genuine, and something I'd expect from a town VE. As for Holyflare, I'm leaning scum on him presently. The points highlighting the emotional "oddities" of his case are really good. The strangest thing about his filter for me is how quickly he dropped his tunnel on me. He makes his initial case on me... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=16#318 ...then all it takes is one reply from me... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=21#419 ...and then his suspicions are gone! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=22#427 The lack of any pursuit, or really any confirmation bias whatsoever is strange. It's very uncharacteristic of a townie to give up on a case so easily, and that's seemingly what Holy did. Also, one interesting thing about Holy/Foolishness association - while Gonzaw claims that they both could be scum, I think Holy's post (if he's scum) suggests the opposite. Holy doesn't seem very interested in Foolishness' allignment at all. which would suggest that Fool is town. Anyway this is associative crap and nothing I'd lynch anyone on, but worth musing about nonetheless. 2) Foolishness's Post Yeah, so I don't think it's a town-tell (as many people have mentioned before). His post in Parallel Worlds comes to mind, that he can fake these larger posts as scum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=387370¤tpage=31#607 I will say though that I agree with a lot of it. Mostly that Prome and WoS's contributions after their early-game posting have fallen off a cliff. There's nothing in their filter besides early-game fluff yet, and looking back on things, their early-game contributions weren't all that impressive. I'm not 100% convinced that either are scum yet, but at this present time, they'd make good lynches for their lack of meaningful contributions to the thread. As for who I'd prefer between Holy/Prome/WoS? Not sure yet, and we have 24 hours to decide atleast. As for other players, I'm currently null on Foolishness, Marv, and Sandro. Town-reads on everyone else. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Content's good though. The only objections I have are the reads on gonzaw (who seems absurdly townie) and sandro (who's opening hasn't really been "strong" as suggested by Fool). | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 22 2014 08:42 marvellosity wrote: I did play in that game so I remember ^^. And yes it's the content. Enough for me to not want to lynch him atm. gonzaw: Holy or Wave. Dunno about Prome, I don't have the issues other ppl seem to. Apparently I'm seeing ghosts with kita, I'll come back to that (or not) later. The Holy emotional stuff is pretty good as mentioned I don't really understand your suspicions on Kita. None of these by themselves really suggests that much, but there's so many of them. All leading, or weirdly phrased, or kinda obvious questions. Odd. This is certainly "odd", but I don't see how its a scumtell. Hell townies use leading questions all the time. I love 'em myself ^^ What I actually find suspicious of kita in light of recent posts is how he's attacking gonzaw. gonzaw has been looking pretty town to me lately, he's eager, lots of big posts, he's commenting on a lot of players, he's suspicious of a lot of players with decent grounds, and yet kita is nitpicking at him for his vote on Foolish compared to kita's. That's unnatural and it's not how I'm viewing the game and it doesn't feel right at all. Is Kita attacking gonzaw? I see him addressing gonzaw's cases (and criticizing them), but nothing I could construct as kita being suspicious of gonzaw. Also Kita apparently still hasn't read the Holyflare post, which is backed up by the posting order. | ||
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Hapahauli
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For a person that questions everything hapa, why have you not questioned where my read has gone and instead used it as evidence to bolster a completely fallacious case made by gonzaw? I just did. Where did it go? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 22 2014 09:12 marvellosity wrote: hapa? kita was clearly suspicious of gonzaw earlier on (aka "contributions without being a contribution") and to then keep nitpicking at gonzaw's case when kita's vote is on the same person is... strange to say the least Oh ok. Must have missed something then. 'suppose I'll wait for Kita to respond. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 22 2014 09:20 marvellosity wrote: Holyflare is Hapa mafia? I'm confused about this as well. In the beginning of his defense, apparently my reply made sense and was satisfactory... There is no anger in my typing, I use caps lock for emphasis on points I deem important. If I was angry I would be swearing. You also mention me backpeddling, yet, you don't understand why? If a player contradicts themself in such a gross fashion then there is a thought process behind it, somewhere. The action itself is scummy but the thought process (as revealed by hapa in his reply to me) was not. There is nothing wrong with being hesitant about a piece of information you display to the thread. Yet... Yet another person misconstruing intentions. There is nowhere in my posts where I have indicated that my suspicions have gone anywhere. I am quite capable of making a train of thought as scum and following it into the ground. I have many games in my profile where you can check this (why has nobody done this yet?). The things people are saying about me are quite odd and are evidence that people have only read the case and not the actual situations around them. For a person that questions everything hapa, why have you not questioned where my read has gone and instead used it as evidence to bolster a completely fallacious case made by gonzaw? Wat. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 22 2014 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Like, I've never seen gonzaw suspicious of me like this. I can't recall ever seeing gonzaw as scum either. Coincidence?!?!?!?!?!!?!??! Can we cut the trolling? Do you have any new thoughts/reads since you last left us? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 22 2014 10:06 Holyflare wrote: I would love to do this but it's 1am so i will elaborate on EVERYTHING when i wake up (even if it means knocking out my gf so i can use her pc) You can't take 5 minutes to give us one read? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 23 2014 06:37 marvellosity wrote: Hapa inc., he just logged on to skype. Stalker o.o Catching up | ||
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Hapahauli
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That's piles upon piles of retarded. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 23 2014 07:30 Promethelax wrote: Gah! This fucking post. Austin is so disconnected from this game. I know it consolidation time so I don't want to start a new thing on Austin but fuck do I want to lynch him based on this post. How is this comment at all alignment indicative? Missing something in the thread is far from a scumtell. | ||
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Hapahauli
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##Vote Promethelax | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 23 2014 07:41 gonzaw wrote: There too fucking many coincidences going on. Sandro coming out of getting modkilled to get the 2nd guy with most votes and vote him. Prome coming out of nowhere, yet vote the only guy that would prevent his lynch. Then Hapa coming out of nowhere and apparently voting Prome without having read the thread yet. Totes read the thread. Typing up my rationale now. | ||
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Hapahauli
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##Unvote ##Vote Foolishness | ||
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Hapahauli
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On January 23 2014 07:46 Promethelax wrote: I still want your reasoning on me being scum, even for five seconds. What is going on in that pointy little head of yours? And why fool over me? Well I was typing up this post about you not being interested in consolidation, and your "summary" posts mostly being fluff. Then three things happened: 1) You've been pretty active in the leadup to the lynch 2) The stuff I had on your "summary" posts were mostly stupid things 3) Someone posted something about Foolishness never being mislynched on Day 1 because of his attention to his town-image. The 3rd thing is more important than anything else really - Foolish's behavior really just doesn't make sense from a meta perspective. He really hasn't spent much of his time at all cultivating his town image, and I'm more willing to believe he's pushing a mislynch on you right now. | ||
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Hapahauli
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You believe that Fool and Sandro are scum no? Why prefer one over the other, especially if they're suspicious for the same reasons (lack of thread presence, fabricated confidence, etc). | ||
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On January 23 2014 07:50 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not sure if you're caught up but this is 100% false. He was active in the early morning and has been absent since. He has played no role in pushing this lynch. No, but he's active now, and doesn't sound all that panicked and is not pushing any self-serving agendas. His post flinging shit at you, while I initially found it suspicious, doesn't make sense from a scum perspective. Prome should be 100% all-out wanting to lynch foolishness if he were scum, and not trying to distract anybody from that goal. | ||
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On January 23 2014 07:54 kitaman27 wrote: voting foolishness isn't a self-serving agenda? Please don't ignore the 2nd part of my post =/ | ||
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Well that' makes 4 I guess. | ||
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On January 23 2014 07:58 gonzaw wrote: I am not entirely sure on the Foo stuff, mainly because he did get lots of people on him, and THEN sandro, kita, etc bandwagon on Prome. May seem kind of unrelated though. But right now I think Prome is town based on what was said and how he's doing stuff and how he wants to sheep me (obviously). Sandro PARKED HIS VOTE AND DISAPPEARED HE WAS AFK FOR LIKE THIRTY HOURS HE CHANGED HIS ATTITUDE SO RAPIDLY. If you ask me whether Foolishensss is scum or not with sandro, I'm not entirely sure. Maybe the Foo lynch is very very good to and I'd want to. But sandro's actions I think speak stronger. If FOo is scum he kind of got caught with his hesitance of a sandro lynch so much and being nonchalant or whatever The die is cast - I don't think you need to justify it =P | ||
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On January 23 2014 07:59 Foolishness wrote: Well, there are some players who said they were okay with Promethelax but are joining the sandroba vote for no reason. Well regardless, there will be quite a bit to work with tomorrow. Personally, I just got back from class too late and should have had more time to collect my thoughts =/ | ||
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On January 23 2014 08:24 VisceraEyes wrote: gonzaw you have nothing but feels and my absence to point at. Nothing I've done makes me scum, and I've been doing what I can when I can. You're not getting me lynched, and you're certainly not going to keep calling me scum for no reason. So VE, any revelations from the flip? | ||
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On January 23 2014 08:27 Foolishness wrote: That's why I said that the sandroba lynch wasn't good. I don't follow. How does marv's vote on you say anything about the sandro lynch? Vote count: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=41#820 At this vote count: Foolishness: 6 Promethelax: 3 Then gonzaw and Austin both vote sandroba. Then Marvellosity votes sandroba. Foolishness: 4 Promethelax: 3 sandroba: 3 Then Hapahauli votes for sandroba Foolishness: 3 Promethelax: 3 sandroba: 4 Then Promethelax votes for sandroba Foolishness: 2 Promethelax: 3 sandroba: 5 Technically Hapahauli had the hammer. But Promethelax voted 1 minute after Hapa did. So yes, Promethelax's vote did not count in the grand scheme of things. Considering that his vote was only a minute after Hapa, he might as well be considered a hammer vote as well. This would suggest that Prome is town, no? Well assuming that you and Sandro aren't scumbuddies. | ||
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Is bussing under such circumstances possible? For sure. Is it likely? Nope. | ||
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On January 23 2014 09:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Whatever just lynch me next, I'll help you guys decide who to lynch after me. Who do we lynch after you? | ||
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On January 23 2014 09:19 WaveofShadow wrote: Of course. I'm not in anyway stating that is for sure what happened, but I'm not crossing it off my list or considering it unlikely. I've seen way too much retarded bussing, and just because of the supposed calibre of player in this game I refuse to discount it. Now considering the lynch happened with only 5 people and gonzaw is all but confirmed town that only leaves the other 4. The 'hammer' happened too quickly for me to put much thought into it. The scenario I could see here is an indignant scumteam member looking at sandro's 'contributions' this game, realizing where it was going once the push began and jumping on for supercred (supercred, considering how most people it seems will be viewing this lynch, ie all 5 voters being likely town considering circumstances), especially since snadro didn't seem to do much to change things after he popped in, spewed some crap and left. The other scenario is sandro giving 'permission' to bus once he himself realized where it was going once gonzaw started up. In terms of likelihood I can't honestly be certain if one scenario seems more likely than another here, as there are many people in this game I have never seen play scum and so marv's saying 'only bad TL scum do this' doesn't mean much. No no, this is still all speculation. We need to talk about votes. Which specific votes in particular look like possible bus votes? Which look like town votes? You can talk all you want about the scumteam, but it's pointless unless you determine which votes are the ones in question. | ||
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OK so we've identified 3 possible bus votes. Marv, myself, and Prome. You apparently don't believe that I'm scum, so what about the other two? What are your reads on Marv and Prome? Is there anything about their voting that's sketchy, or are they just possible bus candidates? Secondly... Conclusions: I believe one scum to be on the sandroba wagon---either marv/hapa OR Prome, and one more on Foolishness (or is Toad). Why can the scum not be on Prome's wagon? Why is it more likely that there's 1 scum on the sandroba wagon than 0? | ||
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On January 23 2014 09:45 WaveofShadow wrote: I have to go back and look at more on marv/Prome in detail when I get a chance. Do that. Scum (aside from sandroba) can be on Prome's wagon, I corrected the post. mmmkay. As for why it is more likely to be 1 scum on sandroba than 0...call it an educated guess. Scum are pretty damn paranoid about where their votes end up and what better place for a vote to be? Do you think scum have the time to be paranoid in a 5 minute vote swing? | ||
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1) Austin's post on Foolishness (above) is really, really good. Foolishness does not get a free pass today, as his attitude towards Sandro on Day 1 was highly suspect. 2) People not getting lynched tomorrow (barring extraordinary circumstances) are myself, gonzaw, austin, marv, and Prome. Prome is basically confirmed town, because a mafia bussing strat on him makes 0 sense. To bus a teammate, you have to believe that the other members of your team can comfortably carry a game. Sandro is not one of those people. 3) WaveofShadow's my top lynch candidate for tomorrow. For his filter size, he's just posted nothing meaningful. Both of his Day 1 Votes are highly suspect. His vote on Kita is literally a pure sheep vote: On January 23 2014 00:08 WaveofShadow wrote: Hmm. Reading Prome's recent summary has actually inspired me, especially given how a few other players have come up with similar concerns about your posting. ##Vote: kita My vote on you atm remains independent of my thoughts on Prome at the moment. Whether you want the reads or not I'll go into Prome and Holy now, kita, so thanks for the indirect push on that subject. Ehhhhh I still don't understand this. ...as is his vote on Foolishness On January 23 2014 06:24 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright final post, I'm feeling better about dropping my vote here. Call it a sheep of gonzaw or thread sentiment if you want, if not you can use my current line of questions/suspicion including my earlier problems with his first case on me. This may be one of the most difficult games I've played in, and it's a good kind of difficult. ##Vote: Foolishness Be back a little bit after deadline. Adds nothing the thread in either of these. Just adds some fluff/filler to act like he's contributing, followed by a vote. His attitude towards Sandro is also very strange. For example, he attacks kita here for voting for Sandro... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=28#551 Read it. It's basically a strange chainsaw defense, that does nothing but discredit kita's post. Also this is big: On January 23 2014 04:41 WaveofShadow wrote: And for the record I probably am probably scummier on inactive Foolishness than inactive sandroba. Could be bias because I have precedent in PYP for sandroba in terms of an early game lurk then blasting onto the scene, but as was mentioend before (I forget by who atm?) sandroba was actively engaging the thread when he was around, whereas Foolishness basically hasn't talked to anyone, he just threw stuff and fucked off multiple times. The bolded is a big wtf - Sandro engaging the thread while he was around? This trumps up Sandro's contributions greatly, compared to Foolishness, who at the time had posted his giant wall-o-text. | ||
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g_g | ||
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