EPT[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia - Page 2
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On January 22 2014 06:07 gonzaw wrote: Well Hapa, it's not strange if he's scum isn't it? How about answering the posts directed at you so I can get into your brainz. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:00 gonzaw wrote: Another guy I have my eyes on is Holy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=16#318 This post seems odd to me. He just gets into the thread, and yet seems angry for some reason? He seems angry at Hapa I dunno why. Most of his post revolves around some small unimportant shit. He "pressures" Hapa because he didn't accuse Foo for Foo's town read on him, and because Hapa apparently backed down his "pressure" of sandro. I mean, those are valid concerns to pressure, but the way Holy does is odd as hell. He pushes it like it's some super awesome case. He addresses Hapa like he's cornered scum. There are 2 things I find scummy about this: 1)He's super pissed of for no reason at all (I mean...read his all-caps sentence). A townie wouldn't be this pissed off on their 1st post against someone they haven't interacted with at the moment, and someone that didn't fuck up or did anything wrong (Hapa was actually pretty active by then, and apparently "pro-town", so why get so angry at him?). Unfounded anger and aggressiveness are mafia traits, either because he feels angry or mad at being scum, or because it's a scum agenda he's pushing. 2)The bolded bit seems too extreme to me, and also includes the fastest backpedalling I've seen. He considers Hapa not caring about sandro anymore. I mean, he even got that wrong (Hapa's "pressure sandro" is actually a line of reasoning to pressure WOS and kita; Hapa doesn't think himself that everybody should vote and pressure sandro until his head explodes or something). Saying that "This isn't something a townie mindset does at all" makes no sense. But then he doesn't keep that up and backpedals saying he doesn't want to be "hasty" or some shit. This post reads all wrong to me. Also, should I point the obvious contradictions?: For someone so HELLBENT on not letting any lurker go by and pressure them, he sure does let lurker Foolishness go by without pressuring him. Foo has some (founded) accusations against him, and he's lurking. Based on Holy's previous post, this is all good and dandy isn't it! Well, apparently not, since he refuses to acknowledge anything being said about Foo', and clearly states that he doesn't want to participate in a "futile" discussion where he has no "attitude towards foolishness" and is relentlessly going against him for doing what he actually said we should be doing (i.e pressuring the lurkers and not letting them go by even if they get "good later on" and stuff?) This makes no sense in context with his previous post. Also, apparently he thinks that these kind of contradictions "isn't something a townie mindset does at all" (which is what he did to Hapa before). So basically, he is calling himself scum. There's also the fact he thinks it's fine to pressure sandro but not Foolishness, and doesn't state many reasons for that. From his perspective there should be no difference between sandro and Foolishness (they are 2 lurkers who barely post and nobody knows much about them), however in Holy's posts there is a clear difference between them, where he wants to deflect attention from Foo and into sandro. Anyways, I don't want to get too much carried on, but right now i'm leaning towards Foo and Holy being scum, with VE coming up third. I'm open to discussions, and people throwing their ideas (and more importantly, their votes) based on this. I still want to keep my vote on Foo' first, and keep him up for lynch (unless other stuff happens). The ending of this post is singlehandedly the most misconstrued post against me I've seen in a long while. Here's why: When I ran through the thread people were calling hapa "pro-town" yada yada, the stuff you were all saying was "lovely hapa please show us the way" so when I see the things that stand out, like accepting free town reads yet pushing a question on something different then I will of course pressure it. The way I write is no different from how I have written in any game. In fact, you spent so much time looking into Foolishness' filter for his 4 posts but you have written at much more length about me and haven't bothered to check how I write, why is that? There is no anger in my typing, I use caps lock for emphasis on points I deem important. If I was angry I would be swearing. You also mention me backpeddling, yet, you don't understand why? If a player contradicts themself in such a gross fashion then there is a thought process behind it, somewhere. The action itself is scummy but the thought process (as revealed by hapa in his reply to me) was not. There is nothing wrong with being hesitant about a piece of information you display to the thread. The remaining quotes are so heavily taken out of context and misconstrued that I find it hard to believe that you follow the train of thought you have written. I quite clearly state that no player should go unpushed and many people had already mentioned foolishness by name and directed questions at him. If there was no response what further pressure can you possibly add at that point? The answer is quite clearly none and that is why I find it hard to believe that you would invest so much time into pushing and researching foolishness for 4 posts. Also: There's also the fact he thinks it's fine to pressure sandro but not Foolishness, and doesn't state many reasons for that. From his perspective there should be no difference between sandro and Foolishness (they are 2 lurkers who barely post and nobody knows much about them), however in Holy's posts there is a clear difference between them, where he wants to deflect attention from Foo and into sandro. Your return post stated you would ignore the rest of the thread apart from discussion about marv and foolishness, I simply said that foolishness had not posted but neither had sandroba so I was curious why you had picked one lurker over the other. At what point do I mention pressure on either of them is bad? @Hapa's critique As for Holyflare, I'm leaning scum on him presently. The points highlighting the emotional "oddities" of his case are really good. The strangest thing about his filter for me is how quickly he dropped his tunnel on me. He makes his initial case on me... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=16#318 ...then all it takes is one reply from me... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=21#419 ...and then his suspicions are gone! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=22#427 The lack of any pursuit, or really any confirmation bias whatsoever is strange. It's very uncharacteristic of a townie to give up on a case so easily, and that's seemingly what Holy did. Yet another person misconstruing intentions. There is nowhere in my posts where I have indicated that my suspicions have gone anywhere. I am quite capable of making a train of thought as scum and following it into the ground. I have many games in my profile where you can check this (why has nobody done this yet?). The things people are saying about me are quite odd and are evidence that people have only read the case and not the actual situations around them. For a person that questions everything hapa, why have you not questioned where my read has gone and instead used it as evidence to bolster a completely fallacious case made by gonzaw? | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
Why is everything you say a bastardisation of what is actually written? A player had a mindset that i attributed as a scummy mindset. He revealed his thought process and that was that. Why have you overblown it into something it quite clearly is not?? I hadn't even made my "big" post, and you had already started defending Foo and trying to put attention on sandro. You even go to great lengths to basically try and guess what's on my mind by saying stuff like "Your goal is clearly to lynch a lurker today" when I had said nothing at all basically. You literally answer my own thought pprocess directly after this quote by saying i assumed it was a lurker lynch (you never corrected me AT ALL) so it not illogical for me to then ask why you were focusing on 1 lurker and not the other? | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On January 22 2014 10:02 Hapahauli wrote: Holy, can we start talking about your scumreads? I literally have no idea where you stand on me or anyone else. I would love to do this but it's 1am so i will elaborate on EVERYTHING when i wake up (even if it means knocking out my gf so i can use her pc) | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On January 22 2014 10:17 Hapahauli wrote: You can't take 5 minutes to give us one read? I don't feel comfortable at all just posting names without elaborating the why's. It was originally you and gonzaw though but that has been dropping down and down based on replies. I honestly am very limited on time in general (all my posts are from my phone since the start) so when i have to defend myself the elaborating drops a lot. Promise to do it in the morning though. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
Either way, I apologise for my lack of playing this game. I fully expected to be able to contribute time but my circumstances changed on the day the game started and so each and every single one of my posts has been posted from my phone, I was just picking up on points that I thought were contradictary and the such, no "aggression" is intended it's just how I post (Hogwarts I got called out for being aggressive as scum so there is no way I would ever try and look like that in a game again as scum). Either way, my initial read was on gonzaw being scummy because of his time allocation, that subsequently changed based on his responses and although I mention the repeated bastardisation and misconstruing of my posts that increasingly (as he kept doing it and still is) looks more and more like a tunneled towny and so I used my time to defend myself from him so as to divulge my thought processes and vindicate myself to the person that I think is towny (from the people that I have focused on). I thought hapa was looking scummy because of his contradictions but his response to me made me back off of that. I can't delve into quotes and things like I normally would but please please look at when gonzaw posted that "case" (that I said was heavily misconstrued) on me. The responses that meekly followed that said "yeh, that's true" and "hmmm yeh I can see that" should be heavily scrutinised as they were, like was just said, not backed up by votes. Like I said at the start, you shouldn't let people who get better later "sandroba AND foolishness (although he has posted now)" sit back, they should be entirely pressured. Sandroba even went so far as to get a good ++ (I think?) from foolishness??? despite his less than 1 page filter with nothing contributary in. Either way, I've asked to be subbed out so have fun. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
I'm subbing out because I don't have the time to play with my current situation and I can't effectively play in the time constraints I have. You make the argument that I just spent my time defending but I justified why I tried to do that, if I have no time to read filters it should be quite clear why my mindset hasn't evolved. This is your biggest problem this game. You have rationalised me as scum and so your mindset is that everything I do is with the intent of a scummer. However, you don't try and rationalise it as a townie that is under attack and just has no time to play. Don't take my being present as reason for "should be able to contribute", defending takes 0 time at all because I can just tell you my mindset. Either way, if I was scum I wouldn't ask to be subbed because who cares, I die in a game full of good players and get on with my life? I am not allowed to sub till the end of the day and so it is my intention that a player with more time can take my spot and portray my alignment to you far better than me in my current situation. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
 (((( Sorry for the resources you spent looking into me :x! | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On January 23 2014 04:00 kitaman27 wrote: You mentioned that you didn't want to provide reads before being able to elaborate. Was there anyone you had in mind at that point, even if you don't provide reasons? austin, marv, foolishness based on their responses to gonzaw case on me REALLY have to go now | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
##gonzaw | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On February 01 2014 10:06 yamato77 wrote: Disappointed that Prom was town. Was reasonably sure before the day Foolish got lynched that Prom and Marv were a team, but I should have known better. I told you ((( | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On February 03 2014 04:15 gonzaw wrote: Actually HF's conversation with me was basically the scummiest thing he did on D1 (i.e spend all his time talking pointless stuff with me instead of finding scum). But well, your town read on him was understandable. I don't remember why everybody else thought he was town lol. I literally had no time to do anything and that is most likely what I would do for the first part of day 1 if I was town and you were sticking to scum hunting a guy with 4 posts anyway (although not to the same extent). Game was really frustrating for me when I couldn't really spend time reading filters and posting properly +++ For foolishness though, got drawn to my meta hard <3 | ||
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