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On January 29 2014 01:31 marvellosity wrote:
it's true, that is our eternal dance. It *might* say more about you than me though.
ref: the activity/prome thing. Prome said x and y posts felt off amongst the sea of posts that felt good. As mafia he could just blanketly say "activity = good, yea bros?",... but he's mindful of a couple of posts he's seen still. That he doesn't have to point out if he's scum if he's making a blanket townread on activity. You're painting this as if there's only one plausible narrative There are more plausible narratives. But this series of questions isn't making me feel good about him either.
Whether I'm right or wrong in a thing I find scummy, I'm troubled that he just went to make a partial case on me but maybe didn't catch my series of posts about finding someone who hand-waved activity = WoS, when that's like 50% of what I've done for 1/3 of this game.
I'm troubled that he asks his Q/W question, but from the wrong angle, because it doesn't matter to me whether Q or W is town/mafia/active/inactive, it matters to me what Armando The Onlooker says about Q and W.
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Kita, smaller issue than Fool/Prome then.
Do you understand what I'm getting at with people saying "activity = town" on WoS?
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On January 29 2014 02:07 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 01:52 austinmcc wrote:
Kita, smaller issue than Fool/Prome then.
Do you understand what I'm getting at with people saying "activity = town" on WoS? I don't trust Armando. Does he have proof of residence? I understand what you're saying, but is it a concern if Wave's posts actually do look townie, aka he is active and making quality posts? If Prom were to attack Wave's posts as a useless wall of text and then suddenly consider him unlynchable it would be one thing, but he does refer to the posts as decent and involved. Although Armando is an Everyman, in this case he's Prome. His residence is Outside.
And yesh, there are degrees of responses. But like...two things happened on D2 that were noticeable. From end of N1/D2, WoS got super super super posty. And VE gave up, more or less. If I had to chart out stuff that happened in D2, those are my things.
For me it IS a concern when WoS has quality posts, but someone is gone for a while, then references all the activity but never speaks to any particular townie post, only some scummy ones. I know I've questioned the length and breadth of WoS's actually super townie submissions within his heightened activity, but I don't disagree that there were quality posts. It's just going with activity and never touching on what posts were townie that irks me.
Then it irks me that marv says he doesn't see why it's important or what I'm getting at, because I don't think this is too strange of a thought here.
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On January 29 2014 02:18 marvellosity wrote:
austin if a body of posts in general is good, why does someone need to go around picking out individual ones for the thread to see? To what end? It serves no use as far as lynching mafia goes.
You're being irked because you're being silly even though you're the only one who thinks this is actually particularly important. Why? Because for me, if Toad is town and kita is probably town, that leaves:
wos
foolishness
you
prome
me
and i'm town. Which means I'm searching for 2 mafia in wos/foolishness/marv/prome. And if WoS isn't mafia, that means I'm searching for 2 mafia in you/foolishness/prome. So things that might make one or the other scummy are particularly important to me. People who think I might be mafia, or toad might be mafia, are in a slightly different boat, so maybe they don't feel the same way.
I'm partially irked because it's the second time this game you've done it. On D1, when I was asking prome and then sandroba about prome's calling out VE but not WoS, you posted something along a similar vein of "i don't see why you find this important"On January 22 2014 03:46 marvellosity wrote:
austin the issue wasn't whether Prome justified the difference, but whether what he did makes him scummy or not. You're 1-0ing something that wasn't even really a point of contention On January 22 2014 05:31 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 04:25 austinmcc wrote:
We can skip the yes/no portion I guess...
If you like Prome's explanation, I'm interested in hearing about that. If you don't, then you think Prome (1) is silly or (2) gave a false reason and/or (3) doesn't have a reason?
If you don't like Prome's explanation and it's (2) or (3), then whether there was a point of contention or not is irrelevant, except that it SHOULD be a point of contention. In my book, making up or having a very weak justification for treating in a different manner two people who do the same thing is a scummy thing (which is the mindset I find myself in at the moment, that yes, what he did was scummy because I don't buy that justification) Just popping in between exercise and dinner, i'll go find kita's stuff a bit later. Mostly 1, maybe a touch of 3? It's just something I don't find very surprising. I've often remarked to Prome that I find his opening to games bad/weak/scummy because he makes senseless accusations/stupid fluff/whatever. Really (and this is to VE mostly I guess) I don't really care so much about him doing that at the start of the game, nor Hapa either, because it's what they do. The difference between here and LX is that on LX it was abundantly clear he was on the backfoot about his RNG plan, here his defence was on the frontfoot (partly *because* he didn't try to overjustify it again and again) and he simply moved on from it. I sincerely wish I found it as interesting as you and VE seem to :p
So it's extra irksome because this is twice now when I've been poking at prome you're just not seeing what I'm seeing. With the first thing, VE saw what I was seeing, flipped town. Sandroba had no problem with prome's interaction there, and was mafia. And my questions on prome/WoS/VE were like...one of very very very few times he ever interacted with thread. I THINK that was really the most interactive, I got like 3-4 posts in a chain from him, but all misunderstanding my question/going somewhere else.
Then as far as the FIRST part of your question to me, why someone needs to go around picking out individual townie posts, they don't NEED to. But he's picked out streams of posts that were SCUMMY to him. The only time he's not fully generic, it's to say WoS did some scummy-ish stuff. If he's going to say that WoS did some scummy stuff, why doesn't he also point out non-generic townie stuff? Even "less generic"? That's his ENTIRE commentary on one of the major things that happened D2, that it's good but also here are some scummy things, but I'm not voting.
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Grrr, I'm bad at putting full reasoning into posts this game. The above post should include, in the paragraph about "so it's extra irksome..."
that VE saw what I was seeing concerning the first thing I was poking at prome on. Sandroba didn't.
I'm interested in whether people are seeing what I'm talking about in the second thing I'm poking at prome on.
If, in both cases, townies are at least SEEING what I'm getting at, even if come to a different conclusion/think I'm overvaluing something, then it looks bad for you that you're saying each time you just don't care in either case and don't understand why I do.
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On January 29 2014 02:37 marvellosity wrote:
austin, it doesn't look bad for me at all, are you insane? It's nothing to do with "seeing" what you're talking about. It's whether it actually means that someone is scummy. I've been pretty clear that it isn't. kita also says that it isn't. You're the only one pushing this...?
IF someone has, say, 100 good posts and 2 posts, which do you highlight?
Or maybe do you say "gosh there's a bunch of good posts, but these are the 2 exceptions"? Yes and noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Maybe you say that. Maybe you don't.
But the third option is just "this person has a lot of posts. also, there are some bad ones."
Prome, TO ME, doesn't say that WoS has a bunch of good posts. He says WoS has a bunch of posts. Doesn't say good. Doesn't say bad. Just doesn't want to lynch based on activity. AFTER saying it's just activity and pointing out something scummy, he DOES say "the rest of his stuff has been decent and simply involved." You may read that as "there's a bunch of good posts," but it troubles me given that it still equates activity/involvement alone with townieness in the lazy fashion, and that it comes only as an explanation of why a scummy thing doesn't make WoS scum. It's a...followup, and not the real point?
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Also, if you come down to looking for 2 scum between marv/foolishness/prome, and you don't think marv/foolishness is likely, then you're left with
marv/prome OR foolishness/prome
In either case, what prome does is interesting and what you guys do in response is interesting. So little things are going to stand out more because I'm not on board with toad being possible mafia, feel good about WoS and kita right now, and I know my alignment.
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On January 29 2014 02:46 marvellosity wrote:
This is going nowhere. Are you going to think about anything else austin, or is this somehow the be all and end all? Above post may answer some of that.
I'm PROBABLY going to not think about anything else. Fully happy with toadread. Can peek more at WoS and kita, but if reads don't change on either of them, then I'm left with 3 people and one scenario (you/foolish) that looks unlikely, and prome being mafia in ALL SCENARIOS.
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On January 29 2014 02:56 marvellosity wrote:
In a not-very-game-related fashion, is anyone other than me suddenly really conscious of how they're writing Wave/WoS ever since Wave mentioned it? I am not, and have continued to use both.
I am more interested in Prom v Prome actually.
I think it as "Pro-me-thelax" in my head. And so it makes sense to me to generally use "Prome." But if other people read it as "Prah-me-thelax" then I guess Prom makes more sense.
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On January 29 2014 02:50 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 02:49 austinmcc wrote:On January 29 2014 02:46 marvellosity wrote:
This is going nowhere. Are you going to think about anything else austin, or is this somehow the be all and end all? Above post may answer some of that. I'm PROBABLY going to not think about anything else. Fully happy with toadread. Can peek more at WoS and kita, but if reads don't change on either of them, then I'm left with 3 people and one scenario (you/foolish) that looks unlikely, and prome being mafia in ALL SCENARIOS. So why are you not pushing me as mafia and trying to get me lynched? You are niggling on one silly little thing that doesn't mean anything and not trying to cause my lynch when I am 100% confirmed mafia for you. WTF I'm just not. Want to look at WoS/Kita again. Then I might push you if you want me to.
You liked Foolishness's points on Kita and toad. You agreed with them. Which leaves you:
foolishness
marv
austin
WoS
You said I'm not scum with foolishness.
Which leaves you foolishness + (marv OR wos). Right? You've had a LOT of posts actually about conspiracy theory or needing to figure out who could be scum with foolishness.
I know I'm not posting my ass off trying to get you lynched, like maybe I ought to. But you've posted a lot about how you want to figure out the third scum. Yet you're not doing that either. So, I'd be really interested in seeing where all the thinking has led you.
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On January 29 2014 03:15 Toadesstern wrote:
austin can I convince you to vote Foolishness?
We've got cookies over here. And you know what happened last time people didn't accept cookies, right?
So basicly here's what I think. I agree with your "it's probably between Foo/Marv/Prome", it's what I've been getting at as well.
Marv isn't going to get lynched today, agree?
Foolishness has been getting heat for a reason this past week. I'm on him, [green]gonzaw[/freen] concluded with "foo buddying toad and using him, foo mafia", Kita who we both agree to be town most likely is on Foo and Marv, the guy known for bussing without any kind of bad conscience is on Foo. Prom as well (i think? votecount please).
I like this lynch. This lynch is awesome.
You really think we should be voting prom instead or what's up? If you agree with that set of 3, then your options are
foolishness/marv
foolishness/prome
marv/prome
out of those three, i think the LEAST likely is foolishness/marv. Marv pushed him a little D1, they didn't play any games where they made cases on each other, fought like hell, lynched one and tried to get the other looking good, blah blah.
I think that if you're on board with those three options, then yes, you should vote prome. Because I don't see a less likely scenario than Foolishness/marv, in which case prome is the common denominator. Unless you disagree on what scenario seems wonky.
##vote: Promethelax
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On January 29 2014 03:17 Toadesstern wrote:
actually that has to wait 30 minutes or so... I'm out of water and don't want to... whatever the word for starving but with water is in english. But you can think about it for the time being. thirsty, dehydrated, parched,
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afk 15ish gotta get more brussels sprouts before the roads get icy
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Alright. Back.
Not taking it for granted is fine, but people had Prome scummy D1, we pretty much backed off on D2 because of sandroba stuff (except VE).
I dunno if I agree about prome having the "weakest things" attributed to him, but maybe. I'd flip it around and ask you if he's done anything in particular that made you feel townie on him.
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Kita stuff
Half-joke vote on Sandroba early. REAL ODD if he's mafia with Sandroba.
Nice post on marv, noting how marv treated Foolishness in that champions game, connecting it here.
Points out Foolishness's read on Sandroba D1. This had already been brought up, but still looks good for kita.
Lotta interaction with sand or posts that mention him on D1. Unvotes sand to vote HF, he had given previous reasons that HF looked scummy (scummy null, to be specific), and gives what feels like an alright reason to swap + Show Spoiler +On January 23 2014 02:43 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 22:53 marvellosity wrote:On January 22 2014 22:49 kitaman27 wrote:
I'd much rather hear who marv is considering voting, rather than defending a player he thinks is town.
Wave looks better, for obvious reasons Could you expand on this, even if it's brief? I didn't pick up on the obvious reason. Mine read was more based on the lack of anything wrong, rather than an abundance of anything he has done that is helpful. Also, could you justify your Holyflare vote for me with specifics? You mention that you thought gonzaw's points were good. Is that what you're going by or is the vote mostly due to his absence from the thread? I currently don't have a strong preference between sandroba and Holyflare and it seems like sandroba hasn't been inspired to rejoin the thread. I'll vote with you for the time being. ##Unvote
##Vote Holyflare
Towards the D1 lynch, is fine with austin/foolishness/prome/sandroba being the lynch choices. As people are picking specific ones, he's following up (asks Foolishness why Prome over me, what differentiates us). Makes it look like he's really considering.
This FEELS TO ME very out of place if Prom or Foolish were mafia with Kita: On January 23 2014 08:09 kitaman27 wrote:
I think the biggest thing to consider is whether or not sandroba was the sacrificial lamb in an attempt to save Prom/Foolishness. Leaving only Kita/marv and kita/WoS?
THERE'S NEAT STUFF FOR ANYONE ON PAGE 49 AND 50? KITA QUESTIONING PROME ABOUT PROME DROPPING KITA WAY DOWN A LIST. MARV ON KITA/SANDROBA. GONZAW ON PROME, AND SPECIFICALLY PROME/SANDROBA. GONZAW CONTINUING TO CALL PROME ON SOME THINGS, MARV DEFENDING PROME.
On January 24 2014 23:12 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 23:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
My D1 is usually pretty bad. I almost NEVER have strong scumreads on D1 and I'm not going to fake confidence about them if they don't exist. If I'm wishy washy about something in thread it's because I'm not afraid to show the rest of the town my thought processes on a matter, which I would think is fairly obvious that that is what I am attempting to do. I think in the end you have to push yourself to pick a read even if you're not 100%. I wasn't rock solid on Prom and I had sandro in my top 3 scum list, but I still stuck with my lynch because that was the player I had the best feeling about at the time. It may get me in trouble in the long run, but sitting back and allowing others to determine the fate of the lynch doesn't do you any good when 3/10 of them have an anti-town agenda and the other 7/10 likely are just as puzzled as you. I really like this post and I think I'm not going any further in kita's filter after it. He grabs a PORTION of a WoS post from a couple minutes earlier, responds in a way that doesn't attack WoS (further thread not, on pg. 64 and 65, just before this, WoS is posting his first giant posts, calling prome scum, and marv again comes in to say that WoS is being weird because of the prome/sand connections he's drawing). Anyway, whatever, kita town.
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On January 29 2014 04:04 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 03:51 austinmcc wrote:
Alright. Back.
Not taking it for granted is fine, but people had Prome scummy D1, we pretty much backed off on D2 because of sandroba stuff (except VE).
I dunno if I agree about prome having the "weakest things" attributed to him, but maybe. I'd flip it around and ask you if he's done anything in particular that made you feel townie on him. just recently, I've explained why I'd rather vote foolishness than him. He has a townread on me. He gets angry at me and asks what I'm doing. Why would he be doing that as mafia? Shouldn't be he sitting back in irc laughing and be happy that I'm willing to lynch foolishness over him? You think he'd attack me after everyone and their mom has called me town this cycle, as mafia when I'm voting foolishess instead of being happy to not have any more heat? I mean, I'll gladly respond with what someone who ain't me might do in a given scenario.
If he's mafia, he probably doesn't want to be firing off townreads, no. But sentiment on you is changing, and if we flip Foolishness and he's town, it's UNLIKELY to change back (would just give more reason for thread to be townie on you). So he could push you or not, but you feel, right now, unlikely to be the next lynch if we lynch Foolishness and he's town. So there's no real bonus to push you, and I don't think he keeps on doing it.
As far as not pushing you. If he's town, he agrees, is cool with you now, thinks you're townie and doesn't attack. If he's mafia, doesn't expect to be able to lynch you, then why keep attacking you? He's focused on trying to get foolish lynched (Again, if foolish town), defending himself somewhat, not on bigger matters.
Like...Foolishness was/is on the chopping block today. He comes in and posts a case on Octavious. Octavious is mafia. In that scenario, I see Octavious being VERY VERY VERY FOCUSED on Foolishness. Octavious does not want people coming around because (a) he's mafia and (b) if they lynch him, then Foolishness looks better again. So i THINK, PERSONALLY, that Octavious (here he's Prome) is going to be focused on Foolishness, and on Foolishness v. Himself, and not actually on setting up a candidate for the next day. All of a sudden there's a MUCH MORE REAL possibility that Octavious himself gets lynched, and he needs to fight that fire NOW instead of play for the next day's lynch.
Where MUCH MORE REAL is somewhat relative to earlier in the day, when NOBODY was talking about lynching Prome seriously.
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(Furthermore I think he could be worried that with Foolishness calling you town, if he continues to call you mafia, you might swap your vote (assuming you're town). One guy has gone to a bunch of trouble to paint you town, the other guy keeps calling you mafia, which one do you vote for?)
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On January 29 2014 04:42 kitaman27 wrote:Duh? ![[image loading]](http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120122010713/marveldatabase/images/2/2d/024-Otto_Octavius_(Earth-194111).jpg) Ugh why did I add an extra o?
But I think there are more villians than there are Spidermans and Spiderpeople, so isn't the mafia faction spiderman and the town faction the villians?
Although spiderman is FAR more likely to be doing the lynching.
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WoS Stuff
Starts off poking at Kita about Sandroba. Can go either way.
Very much not worried about Foolishness's early vote on him (F voted WoS for his first post)
Back and forth with Kita about Sandroba.
Scummy points for referencing positively Foolishness's comment on Sandroba engaging the thread actively
In this post, if the team is actually marv/sand/prome, WoS accidentally catches the mafia team - + Show Spoiler +On January 23 2014 05:37 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 05:31 Foolishness wrote:On January 23 2014 05:24 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 23 2014 04:39 VisceraEyes wrote:On January 23 2014 04:23 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 23 2014 04:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Not the tone - the act itself. Like, if he were town I feel like rather than do a stream of consciousness thing, he would read and have actual suspicions and post those. I disagree. I could swear he's done this specifically as town before (as have I) but I'd have to check which is kind of difficult for me atm. Either way he's given me enough that even were I able to be convinced before his return (which I kinda doubted) I certainly won't be voting him today. Like I get the we 'expect more' but is it not possible that Prome simply hasn't gotten to his 'POP' case yet? I don't allow this defense for people like Foolishness/Sandroba because they haven't actively been here. That's the thing though, we don't "expect more" we expect actual thoughts and opinions. Having suspicions of someone, and succinctly explaining them, takes actually LESS effort than doing a stream of consciousness catch up thing. It's that I expected LESS. Like, I don't know, it's hard to explain. But I'm not voting for him so ultimately it doesn't matter much. Foolishness can you comment on the conversation VE and I had about Prome that ended with the above post? Sounds like you're making good arguments why he should be lynched. Look at it this way. Let's say I posted and said, "Kitaman is the best lynch right now!" what would you respond? You'd say, "wtf he's been pushing the town in the right direction and asking good questions." Now I say, "Promethelax is the best lynch right now!" (or Holyflare) what is your response? You say, "Eh, I feel like he's doing okay..." I don't see any arguments that show that Promethelax is pushing the town in the right direction or pushing a pro-town agenda. He's responded sure, but where's the conviction and the push to get something done? In relation to what gonzaw just posted, I feel like the above could be applied as well to either marv or snadroba----and actually starts to mesh with the idea that I haven't been feeling anything at all from marv all game aside from a little bit of agreement in some posts that I quoted earlier in my filter. Taking a closer look at marv.
WoS, just before his Foolishness vote, has a bunch of posts on Foolishness/prome/marv/sandro. Not trusting Foolishness, who had posted a case-y thing and a vote on Prome. Asking Gonzaw about Gonzaw's vote, wondering whether Gonzaw would prefer marv or sandro. It FEELS legit. He doesn't just sheep Gonzaw's vote, there's a lot of leadup that FEELS townie to me, where WoS is looking at Prome and Foolish a lot but never really doing anything super mega conclusory with them.
I like WoS's conclusion that at least one scum was on the Sandroba wagon. It was against the grain, but he's not using it to try and paint anyone in particular as scummy. He just explains WHY he thinks there's a scum or multiple scum on sandroba, says it's unlikely me or gonzaw (for reasons). I really really like his thoughts after the Sandroba lynch. Neato.
I feel good about WoS's D1.
I like WoS's break in his catchup posts to tell people to stop commenting on fluff in the way that they are. That reads real townie in the middle of his other junk, when he's not attacking anyone in particular, and I like it.
I want to stop now. Also, I'm going to.
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On January 29 2014 04:48 Toadesstern wrote:
spiderman does no lynching.
Spiderman is the kind of MC where you throw up while he's sprouting righteous stuff into peoples face à la "yeah I get you (Villain) had a bad childhood and I understand why you are trying to do all this. I feel sorry for you but killing newborn babies is bad no matter how bad your childhood was" and you just sit there and think FOR CHIRSTS SAKE JUST PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE Yeah but in terms of "Who is most likely to string people up by a rope/thread until they suffocate OR drop them in such a way that their necks snap as the thread springs back up", spiderman wins by a landslide.
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EPT
