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/obs
No time to play properly at the moment, unfortunately.
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Actually, I might be able to join this game :O I didn't think it would start this slowly!
I won't /in just yet though (just in case). But I'll be able to in a couple of days, I'd say.
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Oh I see, there are 3 ongoing games at the moment (2 of them large). That explains it....
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Oh well, it's about time I got to play some Mafia again 
/in
I guess my favorite ship is Vasa, the unfortunate Swedish warship 
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Referring to cdgCorazon's lack of being included in the game yet
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Nice to meet a fellow Lannister again by the way
That was a really interesting setup.
Nice to play a more traditional setup as well, of course.
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When is the deadline by the way? I'd appreciate a countdown
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Ok that's a decent deadline time for me.
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On December 09 2013 06:15 Grackaroni wrote:
I won't be very active day1 if it starts Monday. Also I won't be trolling this game. The risk is too high!
Already making excuses?
##Vote Grackaroni
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On December 09 2013 09:44 Grackaroni wrote:
Xatalos why aren't you voting Kushm4sta?
Why indeed?
##Vote Kushm4sta
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On December 10 2013 06:07 Plutarch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:02 Corazon wrote:
I just want to let you all know that I have some English work to do in the next two days so don't expect me to be super-active....
....If you are town and you are lurking, expect to be under the gun during the game and expect me to not be very nice to you post-game. I will be weighing activity a lot heavier in my voting decision this game than I have in the past. You all are warned. If you are going to take a sieste the entire time and not participate, I am going to be on you until you do so.
That is all. I see some dissonance between your first point and your second. Why would you be so inclined towards policy on low activity players when you have just acknowledged that people can be town and not be active? Perhaps as you say you only require town to be active and you are, in fact, scum?
Indeed that's a starting post leaning on the scummy side.
1) Why mention these time restraints right after receiving the role PM rather than... before the game started maybe?
2) Focusing on policy/lurker lynching (the easiest target for Mafia).
3) Overall a pretty careful and and meek post with no content, yet managing to look reasonable on the first glance (somewhat)
Looks like this game is starting well.
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Plutarch = marv?
Nice, I thought this game was full of new players (to me)
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On December 10 2013 06:18 Corazon wrote:
Please vote for me if you find me scummy. Stop nitpicking and actually play the game.
Off for realsies.
That's not actually a bad idea.
##Vote Corazon
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On December 10 2013 05:50 Alakaslam wrote:
FOR FILTER: GAME STARTED HERE
May I ask... Where did you disappear to?
This is the kind of non-contribution that Mafia love to make.
Especially combined with fading to the background right after that.
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On December 10 2013 06:27 purpletrator wrote:
I am a civilian. To my great dismay, my blood is not purple.
Plutarch, what distinguishes "scum" from "coin-flip"?
I'd assume he means that lurker = coin-flip.
Did you ask merely out of curiosity or for what reason?
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On December 10 2013 06:33 purpletrator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:30 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 06:27 purpletrator wrote:
I am a civilian. To my great dismay, my blood is not purple.
Plutarch, what distinguishes "scum" from "coin-flip"? I'd assume he means that lurker = coin-flip. Did you ask merely out of curiosity or for what reason? It was a pretty lackluster statement to make. I want to know if there was any meat to the meaning behind "coin-flip", because its an empty phrase, much like things like WIFOM and scumslip. Empty buzzwords that don't actually find scum but look like you want to find them.
Hmm. Well, it's good to demand explanations for hollow statements. That, however, was quite clear in my opinion: it's better to lynch scummy players rather than lurky players (higher chance of success).
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On December 10 2013 06:43 LSB wrote:
##Vote: purpletrator
Scum are mafia pretending to be someone else.
Smurfs are players pretending to be someone else.
Smurfs = Mafia.
Flawless mafia. Lynch all Smurfs
Whose smurf is purpletrator?
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Kushm4sta, by the way, I hope you're planning to play this game seriously. I've witnessed several games that you've partly ruined by lurking or worse.
If you're scum, you can get policy lynched. That's fine.
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On December 10 2013 06:47 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:31 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Grackaroni and Holyflare
You were red last game. You were victorious.
Can we expect any changes in your play-style now that you are presumably town?
Grack in particular, you trolled through the initial stages last time, are you gonna be more helpful this game? Don't think you'd see anything different most of my games are "pretty" similar. I guess there are wordings in my posts that you can pick up on sometimes when I'm scum, knowing more information than I should etc. Marv would be able to see afaik (if it is marv). ------------------------------------------------------------ What I don't like though is cora's different responses based on who pushed him see when Plutarch pushed cora, his response was: Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:13 Corazon wrote:
I sense the fact that you aren't reading my posts 100%. You've already gotten off to a rocky start with me due to your baseless accusation. Make sure it doesn't happen again. pretty aggressive - an omg you pointed something out and tried to generate discussion between players don't ever do that again. A hinderance to discussion, and an OMGUS post all within the first few posts. Not something I'd see usually, most people's normal reaction is "just thought people should know" not "shut up im watching you". Then couple it with when I pointed it out again: Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:14 Corazon wrote:
I appreciate getting asked the same question twice. Thanks.
Off to work on English. Be back in an hour or so. Complete flip in responses and then a leave the thread, plenty of things to talk about or conclusions to draw early but he just disappears. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 12:37 Corazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
This is pretty much his first post in his last game (as town), notice point 3. Facilitate discussion, respond appropriately. He doesn't go off on the deep end in that game when someone points out something so trivial either, he responds revealing his thought process B2B filterI don't like his responses or his auto peace out of thread, like the point that was brought up on him.
##Vote Corazon
Actually I think Corazon has a surprisingly good chance of flipping Mafia (considering it's this early). Slightly scummy opening post, slightly OMGUS response, apathetic tone in next post... Definitely not looking good.
Has anyone played with him before though? How does this compare to his town/Mafia play?
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On December 10 2013 06:53 Corazon wrote:
Lol can I go one game without being the first one voted.
Do you guys really think I'm more scummy at this point than Spag and Slam? I'm being open and honest with all of you. I'm not hiding anything. I've always tried to be genuine and not put up façades or wear masks. I'm telling you that I was going to be busy and I told you how I felt coming into this game. If you guys want to call me scum for that, go ahead. But just know that it is really silly to call me scum when Slam and Spag made one post and peaced out. Spag had to be coerced back into the thread and Slam still hasn't come back.
Plutarch wasn't trying to prod me for discussion; he was trying to twist my words and call me scum. Holyflare is just piggybacking off of everyone else's arguments to take town credit.
If you guys would look into the game, you would see that I am far from the scummiest player here. Also, it is good to know that you are all down for pressure voting so now I don't have to take your votes seriously until very close to the deadline. Sweet.
Spagetticus and Alakaslam certainly didn't start in a townish way. But I have to ask which is worse: weak non-contribution (them) or passable non-contribution (you)?
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On December 10 2013 06:59 Corazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:55 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 06:47 Holyflare wrote:On December 10 2013 06:31 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Grackaroni and Holyflare
You were red last game. You were victorious.
Can we expect any changes in your play-style now that you are presumably town?
Grack in particular, you trolled through the initial stages last time, are you gonna be more helpful this game? Don't think you'd see anything different most of my games are "pretty" similar. I guess there are wordings in my posts that you can pick up on sometimes when I'm scum, knowing more information than I should etc. Marv would be able to see afaik (if it is marv). ------------------------------------------------------------ What I don't like though is cora's different responses based on who pushed him see when Plutarch pushed cora, his response was: On December 10 2013 06:13 Corazon wrote:
I sense the fact that you aren't reading my posts 100%. You've already gotten off to a rocky start with me due to your baseless accusation. Make sure it doesn't happen again. pretty aggressive - an omg you pointed something out and tried to generate discussion between players don't ever do that again. A hinderance to discussion, and an OMGUS post all within the first few posts. Not something I'd see usually, most people's normal reaction is "just thought people should know" not "shut up im watching you". Then couple it with when I pointed it out again: On December 10 2013 06:14 Corazon wrote:
I appreciate getting asked the same question twice. Thanks.
Off to work on English. Be back in an hour or so. Complete flip in responses and then a leave the thread, plenty of things to talk about or conclusions to draw early but he just disappears. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 12:37 Corazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
This is pretty much his first post in his last game (as town), notice point 3. Facilitate discussion, respond appropriately. He doesn't go off on the deep end in that game when someone points out something so trivial either, he responds revealing his thought process B2B filterI don't like his responses or his auto peace out of thread, like the point that was brought up on him.
##Vote Corazon Actually I think Corazon has a surprisingly good chance of flipping Mafia (considering it's this early). Slightly scummy opening post, slightly OMGUS response, apathetic tone in next post... Definitely not looking good. Has anyone played with him before though? How does this compare to his town/Mafia play? Why do you need meta to make your read on me? My opening post was not scummy. My OMGUS wasn't an OMGUS. I'm going to call people out for not reading. That isn't scummy to you? Holyflare was just piggybacking off of Plutarch. I'm going to call people out for piggybacking. That isn't scummy to you? I hate to tell you that you are wrong but you are wrong. Sorry.
Meta isn't necessary. It can be helpful sometimes.
It's the scummiest opening post so far in my opinion (maybe competing with Spaghetticus).
It was mostly the tone of your response that I disliked (shifting attention back to the accuser).
I'll have to read the sequence of events again.
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On December 10 2013 07:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:04 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 07:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I don't like Xatalos right now and I'm curious if anyone sees what I see before I say why. Gladly oblige. Quick to hop on someone really really unreasonably early and with not the greatest logic in the world? My behavior right off is worse but he votes cora I am so bad I am useful to scum in the lategame, so he would rather mislynch cora who though not perfect, is definitely better at being town than me. Probably not exactly your point but I think you are also seeing the quick to lynch attitude. And the slightly unreasonable aggressiveness. I'm seeing a scattershot that's flinging poo everywhere and found someone to whom it will stick. I don't feel like he's trying to discern anyone's alignment, but rather start chaos and find a nice lynch target. ##Vote Xatalos
Well, that's one way to look at it. The other is that I'm always relatively aggressive as town.
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On December 10 2013 07:06 Corazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:01 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 06:53 Corazon wrote:
Lol can I go one game without being the first one voted.
Do you guys really think I'm more scummy at this point than Spag and Slam? I'm being open and honest with all of you. I'm not hiding anything. I've always tried to be genuine and not put up façades or wear masks. I'm telling you that I was going to be busy and I told you how I felt coming into this game. If you guys want to call me scum for that, go ahead. But just know that it is really silly to call me scum when Slam and Spag made one post and peaced out. Spag had to be coerced back into the thread and Slam still hasn't come back.
Plutarch wasn't trying to prod me for discussion; he was trying to twist my words and call me scum. Holyflare is just piggybacking off of everyone else's arguments to take town credit.
If you guys would look into the game, you would see that I am far from the scummiest player here. Also, it is good to know that you are all down for pressure voting so now I don't have to take your votes seriously until very close to the deadline. Sweet. Spagetticus and Alakaslam certainly didn't start in a townish way. But I have to ask which is worse: weak non-contribution (them) or passable non-contribution (you)? "passable non-contribution" doesn't exist. Your logic is flawed. My first post was contribution. You can call me out on it later if I contradict myself. You can't call Slam and Spag out on anything that they wrote in their first posts.
Maybe the better choice of words would have been "a semi-contribution" - as in throwing a tiny contribution to the thread in hopes of people glancing over it and deeming it as a passable contribution.
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On December 10 2013 07:15 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:10 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 07:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:04 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 07:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I don't like Xatalos right now and I'm curious if anyone sees what I see before I say why. Gladly oblige. Quick to hop on someone really really unreasonably early and with not the greatest logic in the world? My behavior right off is worse but he votes cora I am so bad I am useful to scum in the lategame, so he would rather mislynch cora who though not perfect, is definitely better at being town than me. Probably not exactly your point but I think you are also seeing the quick to lynch attitude. And the slightly unreasonable aggressiveness. I'm seeing a scattershot that's flinging poo everywhere and found someone to whom it will stick. I don't feel like he's trying to discern anyone's alignment, but rather start chaos and find a nice lynch target. ##Vote Xatalos Well, that's one way to look at it. The other is that I'm always relatively aggressive as town. You are? Where? Is meta defense weak? Give us the other sailing voyages you have made, surely you have ticket stubs?
My latest town game is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423047&user=Xatalos¤tpage=3 I'm maybe slightly more passive there, but you can't see the aggression I put forth in the PM land during the beginning. Grackaroni can enlighten you perhaps.
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On December 10 2013 07:16 Spaghetticus wrote:
Xatalos do you think Artanis' point about you scatter-shotting is a good one? Artanis has a good eye.
Maybe I ought to calm down a bit. However, I'm tired of slow first days. It feels good to get something going fast.
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On December 10 2013 07:24 Spaghetticus wrote:
What plan? What would be a brilliant scum move for Xatalos' to try?
I think he means creating confusion/mayhem and distracting discussion. I don't really agree with that though. I think this fast discussion is a decently good start for the game.
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On December 10 2013 07:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:24 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 07:16 Spaghetticus wrote:
Xatalos do you think Artanis' point about you scatter-shotting is a good one? Artanis has a good eye. Maybe I ought to calm down a bit. However, I'm tired of slow first days. It feels good to get something going fast. Do you think my pressure on you is indicative of my alignment?
Hard to say. I'd say slightly leaning town based on the fact that you're apparently trying to unravel my alignment. But I think you're a veteran player? How many games have you played? In that sense, it could possibly be almost anything.
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On December 10 2013 07:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Oh wait I can just click profile here. 15.
OK. Well, it's definitely possible that this is a "play" to get town credit. But then again, the more likely scenario is that you're town and trying to figure out the game. Your experience makes the former option more likely, but still less likely than the later option, I'd say.
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On December 10 2013 07:36 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote:
I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town. So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive. The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this. I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing. In my opinion natural scum play is to stay low, especially on day 1, the town tends to self destruct anyways day 1. This whole entire "starting shit" strat is actually pretty good, even though it is counterintuitive to the idea of trying to not draw attention. Thus I assumed this strat is not very obvious, especially since I personally never considered it. This is all pure speculation. Something more grounded is that Xatalos is definably acting very different from before, and in my eyes less of a townie
Well, that game is special in the sense that it started during night and nights were PM-only within given Houses. I definitely put pressure on gumshoe and Grackaroni during the night, I'd say. And I was relatively aggressive during the first day, as well. Probably not as aggressive as here, I agree.
Do you mean that passive = townish and aggressive/proactive = scummy? Or what? I can't really see myself playing like this as scum. It'd have to be pretty carefully crafted at least.
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On December 10 2013 07:44 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:43 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 07:36 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote:
I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town. So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive. The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this. I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing. In my opinion natural scum play is to stay low, especially on day 1, the town tends to self destruct anyways day 1. This whole entire "starting shit" strat is actually pretty good, even though it is counterintuitive to the idea of trying to not draw attention. Thus I assumed this strat is not very obvious, especially since I personally never considered it. This is all pure speculation. Something more grounded is that Xatalos is definably acting very different from before, and in my eyes less of a townie Well, that game is special in the sense that it started during night and nights were PM-only within given Houses. I definitely put pressure on gumshoe and Grackaroni during the night, I'd say. And I was relatively aggressive during the first day, as well. Probably not as aggressive as here, I agree. Do you mean that passive = townish and aggressive/proactive = scummy? Or what? I can't really see myself playing like this as scum. It'd have to be pretty carefully crafted at least. Productive = Town. Non-Productive = Scum Spam excluded because it is special.
Do you think my play has been unproductive so far? If yes, why?
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Spaghetticus, I see you asking a lot of questions. Do you have opinions of your own so far? About me, Corazon, Alakaslam, for example?
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On December 10 2013 07:16 Corazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:13 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 07:06 Corazon wrote:On December 10 2013 07:01 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 06:53 Corazon wrote:
Lol can I go one game without being the first one voted.
Do you guys really think I'm more scummy at this point than Spag and Slam? I'm being open and honest with all of you. I'm not hiding anything. I've always tried to be genuine and not put up façades or wear masks. I'm telling you that I was going to be busy and I told you how I felt coming into this game. If you guys want to call me scum for that, go ahead. But just know that it is really silly to call me scum when Slam and Spag made one post and peaced out. Spag had to be coerced back into the thread and Slam still hasn't come back.
Plutarch wasn't trying to prod me for discussion; he was trying to twist my words and call me scum. Holyflare is just piggybacking off of everyone else's arguments to take town credit.
If you guys would look into the game, you would see that I am far from the scummiest player here. Also, it is good to know that you are all down for pressure voting so now I don't have to take your votes seriously until very close to the deadline. Sweet. Spagetticus and Alakaslam certainly didn't start in a townish way. But I have to ask which is worse: weak non-contribution (them) or passable non-contribution (you)? "passable non-contribution" doesn't exist. Your logic is flawed. My first post was contribution. You can call me out on it later if I contradict myself. You can't call Slam and Spag out on anything that they wrote in their first posts. Maybe the better choice of words would have been "a semi-contribution" - as in throwing a tiny contribution to the thread in hopes of people glancing over it and deeming it as a passable contribution. I think being the first real post with substance and allowing for discussion is a good contribution. If I wanted people to glance over it, I would not have been the first one to post it. I would wait until someone else was taking heat in order to make my entrance to the thread in such a way. Another point of bad logic.
I wouldn't call your first post as "real substance". Even "tiny contribution" is a favorable word for that post...
With that said, it's true that Mafia would probably prefer to wait a bit longer before making a post like that. You definitely brought attention on yourself with it (for good reason).
You've been playing entirely reactionary after that first "contribution", though. Do you have anything new to add so far?
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On December 10 2013 07:54 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:51 Xatalos wrote:
Spaghetticus, I see you asking a lot of questions. Do you have opinions of your own so far? About me, Corazon, Alakaslam, for example? He is too busy chewin' ICE he is too dainty for fingernailz
The same question could be addressed to you, by the way...
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On December 10 2013 08:01 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:36 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote:
I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town. So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive. The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this. I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing. In my opinion natural scum play is to stay low, especially on day 1, the town tends to self destruct anyways day 1. This whole entire "starting shit" strat is actually pretty good, even though it is counterintuitive to the idea of trying to not draw attention. Thus I assumed this strat is not very obvious, especially since I personally never considered it. This is all pure speculation. Something more grounded is that Xatalos is definably acting very different from before, and in my eyes less of a townie I don't feel like Xatalos put himself in the spotlight as much as trying to put others in the spotlight. Corazon put himself in the spotlight without any scum gain. When you look at his post from a scum point of view, it doesn't make sense for them to make it. I can see a scum agenda behind Xatalos' posts. That said, I do like his view on my pressure on him in that it was nuanced rather than trying to score town points. The rest of the day should provide more information. On December 10 2013 07:36 Holyflare wrote:Nobody going to discuss cora's mindset or are you going to dismiss it outright for xantos discussion some more? On December 10 2013 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum. Given you quoted me I take it you'd like a response from me? I don't find Corazon scummy at this point in time because he drew attention to himself without any scum benefit. Is it not also a scum mindset to heavily defend themselves when attacked, unnaturally so? Also while defending themselves to then deflect upon another person? Why are you only looking for the people that are "starting shit"? I only know a few scum that play that way. Have you any scum meta on Xatalos that suggests he plays like he is? I don't like how you're so dismissive over cora without discussion when with Xantos you skim the filters to discuss him further. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote:
I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town. So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive. The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this. I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing. Look at the difference between these two points - on the one hand (cora) is dismissed by saying "I don't think scum plays that way" whereas the second (Xatalos) is "I have skimmed it briefly and think it's different because X,Y,Z. Question, question. _____________________________ In regards to the point that you made about cora, I don't think he's "putting himself out there" like you suggest, he said that he couldn't dedicate some time towards the game but would still post actively and got picked up on it and was like OMGNUUWRONGRAWRRR!!!!!! and then didn't discuss why with people further or indicate that he had reads on other people because of what happened. He left the thread and then returned when people started mentioning Xatalos and piggybacked upon that with no new reasoning other than what people had said before. He mentions how people in the thread were piggybacking previously (me, etc.) and had qualms with them but then does the same thing here: Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:10 Corazon wrote:
I do feel like Slam was right as well. If Xatalos was using good logic and pushing me like a townie, I wouldn't have a problem with him. However, he is using faulty logic on purpose and trying to pass it off as correct when in fact his conclusions only come about because he needs to fake pressure on me. This is contradictary with his previous approach of disliking people that piggybacking and is essentially +1ing another players points. Take this in B2B for example, people had a bad read on him and he DISCUSSED why it was bad: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 01:00 Corazon wrote:
When did I say that sciberia was bad town? Please find a post where I said he was bad town.
I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game.
That case was confirmation bias because you took 1-2 decent points about me (which alone are not enough to justify a vote or my lynching) and then supplemented them with saying "Corazon is doing stuff that he always does in every game, he has to be scum for it in this one". He mentions WHY the case was bad etc etc, discusses it and outlines why he thinks it was bad croming from X player. Where is that here? It was a dissmissal of a case from me and a sheep onto townish consesus Xatalos. __________________________________________ I don't like how these things are most definitely brushed off for simplicity that "I don't think scum do this" when there is a body of evidence that suggests a player does not play like this. Vote Cora for best lynch.
These are definitely some good points. It's surely premature to declare Corazon as today's lynch, but it would be a good pick in the current situation.
I dislike Artanis's dismissal of Corazon's play as well, but I doubt Artanis and Corazon would be scum together. It would seem risky to make a connection like that. That's WIFOM, though.
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On December 10 2013 08:04 Spaghetticus wrote:
Slam is actively obfuscating his intentions with spam. I don't like.
Corazon is a candidate for lynch day one, I'm waiting to see how he responds.
I am suspicious of you, but I think that is more a product of you being in the spotlight rather than any real problems I've got with you so far. I will continue to pay attention to your responses.
Hmm, okay. When you say you don't "like", do you mean as in scummy or annoying?
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On December 10 2013 08:15 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 08:12 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:04 Spaghetticus wrote:
Slam is actively obfuscating his intentions with spam. I don't like.
Corazon is a candidate for lynch day one, I'm waiting to see how he responds.
I am suspicious of you, but I think that is more a product of you being in the spotlight rather than any real problems I've got with you so far. I will continue to pay attention to your responses. Hmm, okay. When you say you don't "like", do you mean as in scummy or annoying? Dunno, Thanatos. What do you think?
Judging by his vote, probably scummy. But it could be just an empty vote, I guess.
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On December 10 2013 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:18 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 07:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2013 06:44 purpletrator wrote:On December 10 2013 06:43 LSB wrote:
##Vote: purpletrator
Scum are mafia pretending to be someone else.
Smurfs are players pretending to be someone else.
Smurfs = Mafia.
Flawless mafia. Lynch all Smurfs You could at least start in alphabetical order. What if I reveal my identity? Would you change your vote to a different smurf? Worst post in thread. ##Vote: purpletrator Kusplain? Hello sir, I promise not to get mad at you this game If purpletrator can reasonably explain what he is going to achieve with that post i'm going to unvote. Now i gotta sleep! cya tomorrow. Please don't be useless Alakaslam ok?
By the way... rayn, what are you doing? I thought you were going to be one of the most contributive players here. I hope it'll get better from here... Otherwise you're probably scum.
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On December 10 2013 07:03 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:49 Xatalos wrote:
Kushm4sta, by the way, I hope you're planning to play this game seriously. I've witnessed several games that you've partly ruined by lurking or worse.
If you're scum, you can get policy lynched. That's fine. Sorry but I'm doing a lurk strat this game! I disagree that it will ruin the game though.
Speaking of useless, I missed this post. It definitely takes the grand prize on being useless. Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if he went through with lurking his way through the game...
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On December 10 2013 08:20 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 08:16 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:15 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 08:12 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:04 Spaghetticus wrote:
Slam is actively obfuscating his intentions with spam. I don't like.
Corazon is a candidate for lynch day one, I'm waiting to see how he responds.
I am suspicious of you, but I think that is more a product of you being in the spotlight rather than any real problems I've got with you so far. I will continue to pay attention to your responses. Hmm, okay. When you say you don't "like", do you mean as in scummy or annoying? Dunno, Thanatos. What do you think? Judging by his vote, probably scummy. But it could be just an empty vote, I guess. Be not dodging the question as askt What do you think?
I think you're being suicidal if you're scum, so it's a bit more likely that you're town, but overall somewhat null so far.
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On December 10 2013 08:29 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 08:19 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2013 07:18 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 07:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2013 06:44 purpletrator wrote:On December 10 2013 06:43 LSB wrote:
##Vote: purpletrator
Scum are mafia pretending to be someone else.
Smurfs are players pretending to be someone else.
Smurfs = Mafia.
Flawless mafia. Lynch all Smurfs You could at least start in alphabetical order. What if I reveal my identity? Would you change your vote to a different smurf? Worst post in thread. ##Vote: purpletrator Kusplain? Hello sir, I promise not to get mad at you this game If purpletrator can reasonably explain what he is going to achieve with that post i'm going to unvote. Now i gotta sleep! cya tomorrow. Please don't be useless Alakaslam ok? By the way... rayn, what are you doing? I thought you were going to be one of the most contributive players here. I hope it'll get better from here... Otherwise you're probably scum. dude you need to chillax. it's like hours into the game.
Have you been reading the thread all this time?
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On December 10 2013 08:30 kushm4sta wrote:
ya like i said im lurk strating. have no opinions on anything so dont even bother to ask.
Alright then. If it's going to be like this, I don't want you alive at LYLO. Start doing something or die.
##Vote kushm4sta
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On December 10 2013 08:46 purpletrator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 08:42 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:30 kushm4sta wrote:
ya like i said im lurk strating. have no opinions on anything so dont even bother to ask.
Alright then. If it's going to be like this, I don't want you alive at LYLO. Start doing something or die. ##Vote kushm4sta Can we appeal to the vig(s) to shoot kush and/or slam for us?
I can get behind that. kushm4sta should be the first target, though.
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By the way, purple, your filter is pretty lackluster so far. What have you been doing for all this time? Actively lurking?
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On December 10 2013 08:55 purpletrator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 08:53 Xatalos wrote:
By the way, purple, your filter is pretty lackluster so far. What have you been doing for all this time? Actively lurking? i went to look at LSB's old games, only actually looked at PYP which is still ongoing and decided I'd seen enough to unvote him.
Can you go into specifics?
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On December 10 2013 08:57 Spaghetticus wrote:
Xatalos why should Kush be the first target? At least Kush is honest and not junking up the thread?
Hmm. It probably has something to do with my history of bad experiences with kushm4sta. If Alakaslam keeps this spam up, it might be more beneficial to the discussion to eliminate him first. Both are coin-flips, though, and pretty much policy kills.
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On December 10 2013 09:00 purpletrator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 08:56 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:55 purpletrator wrote:On December 10 2013 08:53 Xatalos wrote:
By the way, purple, your filter is pretty lackluster so far. What have you been doing for all this time? Actively lurking? i went to look at LSB's old games, only actually looked at PYP which is still ongoing and decided I'd seen enough to unvote him. Can you go into specifics? He fails to read things properly. I should actually read games where I know his alignment, but I dont see it making a difference tbh.
Hmm. Do you think he fails to read properly generally or in this game in particular? To be honest, I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Explain why LSB was scummy but isn't anymore?
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On December 10 2013 09:00 LSB wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: kushm4sta
What's up with this vote? Pure policy or some other reason?
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On the other hand, I think Corazon is more likely Mafia than kushm4sta. kushm4sta is better suited for a Vigi to handle (I doubt anyone disagrees that he needs to go unless something changes drastically). Same with Alakaslam, it's starting to look like.
##Vote Corazon
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Actually:
##Unvote
##Vote Corazon
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On December 10 2013 09:18 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 09:02 Alakaslam wrote:
so toxic.
OK.
I am going to drop the persona for a minute because you all are being kind of disgruntled.
You are all talking about policy lynches as if that is more important than
LYNCHING SCUM.
come on people. I'm doing what I can from the position I am in.
Thank you.
ICE! People don't like or appeiciate the persona, stop. It's disruptive as town and disruptive as scum, draws uneccesary suspicion, and clearly disturbs spag. There's no benefit to it other then your own amusement, and if you shouldn't value your own trolly fun when it disrupts the happiness of others in game.
Any other opinions? That's just stating the obvious.
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purple, where did you go? Could you explain perhaps? (see: my earlier post)
I'll be going to sleep soon, but it looks like this day is starting decently. If only kushm4sta and Alakaslam started actually playing...
I'm most interested to see what Corazon is going to do next as well.
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rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon
2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time
3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?)
Artanis, now I'd like you to answer:
1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why?
2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me?
3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon?
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On December 10 2013 21:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 21:10 kushm4sta wrote:
@rayne i looked at dessert and it looks like xatalos is acting almost opposite of that.
As scum in dessert his early game was giving reluctant townreads based on blatant antitowniness.
This game he wants to lynch me for antitowniness. Actually unless i ahve misunderstood something he doesn't.
Well, it's either lynch or shoot. Either one works for me.
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On December 10 2013 13:12 purpletrator wrote:
@xata
My initial read of LSB was that he was scum for throwing a shitty vote down and only following up when rayn pointed it out. He said how he never noticed my offer to reveal my identity, which I didnt think was townie mentality. If he'd seen it and just ignored it, then sure whatever hes just trolling. But to neglect to read the guy your voting, when his post was literally 1 above yours? That seemed messed up to me. On reading his PYP filter he does similar things where he misses key points in peoples posts. I dont want to go into detail because that game is ongoing.
Hmmm. Really... It's pretty weak to accuse someone of being scum and backtracking like that for no clear reason. Meta is meta, but what do you think of him in this game? Or other players for that matter?
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On December 10 2013 21:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay let's drop this since it's not leading into anything that can certainly be judged into a way or another (unless someone disagrees).
Grackaroni and Xatalos comments on my case on purple?
Spaghetticus i second Plutarch. In LXIII you were quite clearly town from your posting on D1. I don't see even a shoadow from that towninees here. What are you doing?
Well, I think it's not fruitless to investigate my meta. I'm just saying that it's much more useful to compare my later days to my meta than my D1 (since my current meta is to be aggro on D1 as either alignment, although I'm sure there are some smaller differences). My proactive town meta / lurky Mafia meta tend to become clearer later on (although naturally I try to suppress it as Mafia, it gets harder as time goes on).
I agree with your points on purpletrator (if you looked at my filter, you'd see that I questioned him for almost the same things). His play has been weak and aimless so far. He is a decent lynch candidate for sure.
I see you "don't like" Artanis either. Do you think he's less scummy than purple?
What about Corazon?
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On December 10 2013 21:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +
I see you "don't like" Artanis either. Do you think he's less scummy than purple?
What about Corazon?
What's the purpose of this? If you have read my filter and know who's my vote on you'd know the answers to these questions. Also what do you think of Grackaroni's answer to my case on purple?
Your vote is on purpletrator, so I'd assume you think he's the scummiest. What I meant to say is: what's your opinion on Artanis and Corazon at the moment?
Hmmm. I don't really understand what Grackaroni is saying. Apparently he means to refute your case by saying it's obvious.......... Well, I guess he means that it's just stating the obvious and not much of a case. Weird to randomly point that out though. And why would being obvious make a case "weak", I really wonder.
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On December 10 2013 21:55 Plutarch wrote:
Is it wrong to be paranoid about scum rayne right now?
Well, I think he's certainly being more productive than he was in GoT Mafia (as Mafia). There he was mostly just distracting and hindering the discussion. I guess his string of posts about my meta is a bit like that, but there are also valid points in that (unlike most of what he talked/spammed about in GoT).
I'm still slightly paranoid after GoT, though.
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On December 10 2013 22:02 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 21:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2013 21:50 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 21:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I see you "don't like" Artanis either. Do you think he's less scummy than purple?
What about Corazon?
What's the purpose of this? If you have read my filter and know who's my vote on you'd know the answers to these questions. Also what do you think of Grackaroni's answer to my case on purple? Your vote is on purpletrator, so I'd assume you think he's the scummiest. What I meant to say is: what's your opinion on Artanis and Corazon at the moment? Hmmm. I don't really understand what Grackaroni is saying. Apparently he means to refute your case by saying it's obvious.......... Well, I guess he means that it's just stating the obvious and not much of a case. Weird to randomly point that out though. And why would being obvious make a case "weak", I really wonder. My thoughts on Artanis have not really changed since i last posted them (after the "i don't like him" post). I agree with what Plutarch said about Corazon as i said, i don't think anything else in his posting is scummy. Grackaroni basically does not even address my case because it's not about if purple is clueless or not. That's scummy as hell. That is the entirety of your case. You said he had a shitty reason for a vote/unvote. He thinks that LSB not reading his comment somehow makes LSB scum and that LSB wanting him to reveal his identity is scummy. I agree that his vote is stupid. That is all that you have shown. dumb does not always equal scum.
Do you think a weird vote+unvote is more telling of being town or scum?
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On December 10 2013 22:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:00 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 21:55 Plutarch wrote:
Is it wrong to be paranoid about scum rayne right now? Well, I think he's certainly being more productive than he was in GoT Mafia (as Mafia). There he was mostly just distracting and hindering the discussion. I guess his string of posts about my meta is a bit like that, but there are also valid points in that (unlike most of what he talked/spammed about in GoT).I'm still slightly paranoid after GoT, though. Could you elaborate more on that because afaik i did never try to "distract people's read on you" as you seem to be implying here. I was not calling you scum for what i posted. I was calling out people who gave an incorrect meta-read on you.
Well, you didn't actually call me scummy... But you did call me scummy without *really* calling me scummy... Which is more worrying in itself than actually calling me scummy.
On December 10 2013 20:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 13 2013 10:00 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 09:50 jaybrundage wrote:On January 13 2013 09:27 Xatalos wrote:That smilie doesn't really mean anything, but rather look at jay's post before it. On January 13 2013 09:01 jaybrundage wrote:On January 13 2013 08:49 kushm4sta wrote:Wow I was going to try hard this game but then prome said what he said now I have to play like shit just to spite him. ~~~ On January 13 2013 07:08 Dandel Ion wrote:If Kush goes retard in this game I'll just modkill him I'll have no qualms about that. Define full retard.
I will not play illegally that is all I can promise. The way your entering the thread is terrible your setting the town up for failure. Its hard enough to play mafia when people are trying there best. If your gonna play like shit and it make it intentionally hard to read you I have no problem lynching you. You looking scummy as it is. You can step it up, Or get lynched your call. That's just too aggressive for my taste. Did anyone else react like that to Kushm4sta's (trollish) posting? Why would it be scummy to draw attention without any need? Xatalos I dont know about you. But I dont want someone trolling in a mafia game. Why put up with someones bullshit so he can spite someone. If hes scum then he can just use to get away with scummy shit. I dont want to put up with that. So I rather put a stop to it now. Yeah, his behaviour is anti-town. But is it scummy? Have you ever seen a scum player opening the discussion with something that will make people less opposed to lynching him? On January 13 2013 11:07 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 09:47 kushm4sta wrote:
fyi i dont read megacases, so keep that in mind.
k this is my last intro post.
Next time I post it will be telling you who i think is scum. Why are you even playing this game if you don't want to put in effort? I can't imagine scum playing like that, but that's still not an excuse to play anti-town. On January 13 2013 11:17 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 11:08 jaybrundage wrote:
@Xalalos
Well Zentor is already defending me lol. I can see him being townie again. Althought i never seen a scummy Zentor.
But as it is so far im leaning town. But regardless i rather not talk about town reads. Anything you think is scummmy as of yet? Well, I haven't seen anything really scummy yet. Mostly I'm concerned with your entrance to the thread and thrawn's lack of engagement. And Kushm4sta's attitude, although it's not actually scummy, but it's still anti-town. On January 13 2013 13:56 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 13:19 MrZentor wrote:
Well, he was in it, I suppose, but he didn't read the last half. Well, you did make a huge comeback later in the game. But you've posted more stuff so far in this game than during the early game there... On January 13 2013 14:12 Xatalos wrote:
Well... I can actually relate to that kind of thinking. I was under heavy suspicion last game for switching my reads based on others' opinions. It's still scummy though, but on the other hand, it's a blatantly scummy thing to do that actual scum wouldn't do (at least so clearly). Conclusion? Tentatively town, purely based on you doing too many anti-town/scummy things for it to make any sense as scum. It sounds stupid, yeah, but it's actually logical. Playing like that makes you get heavy pressure and you end up most likely claiming scum at some point unless you're an amazing player.
(It's pronounced Ksatalos btw, lol) Here is a series of extremely wishy-washy posts from Dessert Mini mafia from Xatalos. Compare this to what Artanis said and quoted from him and tell me if they are similar or not? This is also ~20% of Xatalos' posts from D1 in Dessert - Sloosh made a case on him based on this and some other things right after those posts. I also looked over Xatalos' posts on Sicilian and NWM and in no posts he uses this "this could be scummy but is it in fact?" he does in this game and Dessert. Here is what JJD said in reference (this game): + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2013 14:29 JarJarDrinks wrote:FOSing Xatalos. I agree w/ the whole flinging poo analysis. And this post: Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:10 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 07:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:04 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 07:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I don't like Xatalos right now and I'm curious if anyone sees what I see before I say why. Gladly oblige. Quick to hop on someone really really unreasonably early and with not the greatest logic in the world? My behavior right off is worse but he votes cora I am so bad I am useful to scum in the lategame, so he would rather mislynch cora who though not perfect, is definitely better at being town than me. Probably not exactly your point but I think you are also seeing the quick to lynch attitude. And the slightly unreasonable aggressiveness. I'm seeing a scattershot that's flinging poo everywhere and found someone to whom it will stick. I don't feel like he's trying to discern anyone's alignment, but rather start chaos and find a nice lynch target. ##Vote Xatalos Well, that's one way to look at it. The other is that I'm always relatively aggressive as town. Just really seems like he's trying to explain how he's trying to play to his town meta and he's pissed that Artan isn't seeing it that way. I'm also noticing that he's giving alot of his reads a qualifier. A bunch of "this guy is scummy but he could be town too" or vice versa. Check these: Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:30 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 07:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:24 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 07:16 Spaghetticus wrote:
Xatalos do you think Artanis' point about you scatter-shotting is a good one? Artanis has a good eye. Maybe I ought to calm down a bit. However, I'm tired of slow first days. It feels good to get something going fast. Do you think my pressure on you is indicative of my alignment? Hard to say. I'd say slightly leaning town based on the fact that you're apparently trying to unravel my alignment. But I think you're a veteran player? How many games have you played? In that sense, it could possibly be almost anything. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:36 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 07:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Oh wait I can just click profile here. 15. OK. Well, it's definitely possible that this is a "play" to get town credit. But then again, the more likely scenario is that you're town and trying to figure out the game. Your experience makes the former option more likely, but still less likely than the later option, I'd say. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 08:09 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:01 Holyflare wrote:On December 10 2013 07:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:36 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote:
I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town. So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive. The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this. I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing. In my opinion natural scum play is to stay low, especially on day 1, the town tends to self destruct anyways day 1. This whole entire "starting shit" strat is actually pretty good, even though it is counterintuitive to the idea of trying to not draw attention. Thus I assumed this strat is not very obvious, especially since I personally never considered it. This is all pure speculation. Something more grounded is that Xatalos is definably acting very different from before, and in my eyes less of a townie I don't feel like Xatalos put himself in the spotlight as much as trying to put others in the spotlight. Corazon put himself in the spotlight without any scum gain. When you look at his post from a scum point of view, it doesn't make sense for them to make it. I can see a scum agenda behind Xatalos' posts. That said, I do like his view on my pressure on him in that it was nuanced rather than trying to score town points. The rest of the day should provide more information. On December 10 2013 07:36 Holyflare wrote:Nobody going to discuss cora's mindset or are you going to dismiss it outright for xantos discussion some more? On December 10 2013 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum. Given you quoted me I take it you'd like a response from me? I don't find Corazon scummy at this point in time because he drew attention to himself without any scum benefit. Is it not also a scum mindset to heavily defend themselves when attacked, unnaturally so? Also while defending themselves to then deflect upon another person? Why are you only looking for the people that are "starting shit"? I only know a few scum that play that way. Have you any scum meta on Xatalos that suggests he plays like he is? I don't like how you're so dismissive over cora without discussion when with Xantos you skim the filters to discuss him further. On December 10 2013 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum. On December 10 2013 07:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote:
I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town. So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive. The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this. I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing. Look at the difference between these two points - on the one hand (cora) is dismissed by saying "I don't think scum plays that way" whereas the second (Xatalos) is "I have skimmed it briefly and think it's different because X,Y,Z. Question, question. _____________________________ In regards to the point that you made about cora, I don't think he's "putting himself out there" like you suggest, he said that he couldn't dedicate some time towards the game but would still post actively and got picked up on it and was like OMGNUUWRONGRAWRRR!!!!!! and then didn't discuss why with people further or indicate that he had reads on other people because of what happened. He left the thread and then returned when people started mentioning Xatalos and piggybacked upon that with no new reasoning other than what people had said before. He mentions how people in the thread were piggybacking previously (me, etc.) and had qualms with them but then does the same thing here: On December 10 2013 07:10 Corazon wrote:
I do feel like Slam was right as well. If Xatalos was using good logic and pushing me like a townie, I wouldn't have a problem with him. However, he is using faulty logic on purpose and trying to pass it off as correct when in fact his conclusions only come about because he needs to fake pressure on me. This is contradictary with his previous approach of disliking people that piggybacking and is essentially +1ing another players points. Take this in B2B for example, people had a bad read on him and he DISCUSSED why it was bad: On November 21 2013 01:00 Corazon wrote:
When did I say that sciberia was bad town? Please find a post where I said he was bad town.
I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game.
That case was confirmation bias because you took 1-2 decent points about me (which alone are not enough to justify a vote or my lynching) and then supplemented them with saying "Corazon is doing stuff that he always does in every game, he has to be scum for it in this one". He mentions WHY the case was bad etc etc, discusses it and outlines why he thinks it was bad croming from X player. Where is that here? It was a dissmissal of a case from me and a sheep onto townish consesus Xatalos. __________________________________________ I don't like how these things are most definitely brushed off for simplicity that "I don't think scum do this" when there is a body of evidence that suggests a player does not play like this. Vote Cora for best lynch. These are definitely some good points. It's surely premature to declare Corazon as today's lynch, but it would be a good pick in the current situation. I dislike Artanis's dismissal of Corazon's play as well, but I doubt Artanis and Corazon would be scum together. It would seem risky to make a connection like that. That's WIFOM, though. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 08:16 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:15 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 08:12 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:04 Spaghetticus wrote:
Slam is actively obfuscating his intentions with spam. I don't like.
Corazon is a candidate for lynch day one, I'm waiting to see how he responds.
I am suspicious of you, but I think that is more a product of you being in the spotlight rather than any real problems I've got with you so far. I will continue to pay attention to your responses. Hmm, okay. When you say you don't "like", do you mean as in scummy or annoying? Dunno, Thanatos. What do you think? Judging by his vote, probably scummy. But it could be just an empty vote, I guess. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 08:25 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:20 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 08:16 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:15 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 08:12 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 08:04 Spaghetticus wrote:
Slam is actively obfuscating his intentions with spam. I don't like.
Corazon is a candidate for lynch day one, I'm waiting to see how he responds.
I am suspicious of you, but I think that is more a product of you being in the spotlight rather than any real problems I've got with you so far. I will continue to pay attention to your responses. Hmm, okay. When you say you don't "like", do you mean as in scummy or annoying? Dunno, Thanatos. What do you think? Judging by his vote, probably scummy. But it could be just an empty vote, I guess. Be not dodging the question as askt What do you think? I think you're being suicidal if you're scum, so it's a bit more likely that you're town, but overall somewhat null so far. Does he have any reads he's confident about? Notice the similitaries? Now wtf are you talking about Plutach and kush?
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On December 10 2013 22:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote:
Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all. He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time. Show nested quote +2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him) This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned. Show nested quote +3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam. Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum. Show nested quote +4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone). Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie. Show nested quote +There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it. Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 21:08 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon
2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time
3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?) Artanis, now I'd like you to answer: 1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon? I'm smelling some OMGUS here. 1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it. 2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him. 3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now.
1) Actually, if you looked at my earlier filter, I already voiced some suspicion of you when you defended Corazon (since he "grabbed attention") while accusing me (even though I grabbed attention intentionally unlike Corazon). With that logic, you should have defended me and accused Corazon (since he just unintentionally grabbed attention, tried to deflect it and then disappeared). While I was doing my aggro and grabbed attention as a natural part of my play...
2) Do you really think that pressure in the first hour of the game = securing a lynch? Granted, my vote is currently on Corazon, but really.... How is it a Mafia play to put heavy pressure at the very start?
3) I agree with those other points, but how am I the scummiest? How does your logic agree with purple and sidesprang being scummy, yet I'm the scummiest (with pretty illogical reasoning, even)? It just doesn't make sense.
If something doesn't make sense, it's probably coming from scum. I think your reads on me/Corazon are definitely not making sense.
##Unvote
##Vote Artanis[Xp]
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On December 10 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:37 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote:
Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all. He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time. 2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him) This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned. 3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam. Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum. 4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone). Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie. There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it. Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see. On December 10 2013 21:08 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon
2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time
3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?) Artanis, now I'd like you to answer: 1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon? I'm smelling some OMGUS here. 1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it. 2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him. 3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now. 1) Actually, if you looked at my earlier filter, I already voiced some suspicion of you when you defended Corazon (since he "grabbed attention") while accusing me (even though I grabbed attention intentionally unlike Corazon). With that logic, you should have defended me and accused Corazon (since he just unintentionally grabbed attention, tried to deflect it and then disappeared). While I was doing my aggro and grabbed attention as a natural part of my play... 2) Do you really think that pressure in the first hour of the game = securing a lynch? Granted, my vote is currently on Corazon, but really.... How is it a Mafia play to put heavy pressure at the very start? 3) I agree with those other points, but how am I the scummiest? How does your logic agree with purple and sidesprang being scummy, yet I'm the scummiest (with pretty illogical reasoning, even)? It just doesn't make sense. If something doesn't make sense, it's probably coming from scum. I think your reads on me/Corazon are definitely not making sense. ##Unvote
##Vote Artanis[Xp] 0) So you opened up the option to OMGUS early. That doesn't mean you're not OMGUS'ing. You've just gone full OMGUS. 1) I already told you that what Corazon did wasn't from a scum agenda. What you did conforms to one. Yes, he's been full of excuses and all that, but he hasn't done anything to further a scum agenda which is how you catch scum. 2) Early votes don't mean too much. What I'm saying is that Cora is an easy push and you know it. 3) You're the scummiest because you have the most content and there's more of you to go after. The other two have barely posted and are either smurfs or new, whereas you're held to higher standards. If something doesn't make sense, you try to figure it out. You're not doing that.
Then enlighten me:
1) If my play is a possible scum play, how is it more likely scum than town?
2) Why did you defend Corazon for grabbing attention (while actually he didn't intend to), yet accused me for doing just that ("creating confusion")?
3) How is it not a scum agenda to make excuses for lurking in advance and deflecting attention away from himself (like Corazon)?
4) How is it not a town agenda to create discussion and pressure aggressively (like me)?
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On December 10 2013 22:49 Holyflare wrote:
TL:DR
He does not know LSB's alignment in PYP so how can he unvote based on that game unless he knows his alignment in this one.
LOL. Is that true? He really doesn't know LSB's alignment in PYP???
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On December 10 2013 22:54 kushm4sta wrote:
Player List:
1. raynpelikoneet
2. VayneAuthority
3. Pandain
4. Spaghetticus
5. kushm4sta
6. Grackaroni
7. JarJarDrinks
8. Artanis[Xp]
9. LSB
10. Xatalos
11. Plutarch
12. Alakaslam
13. Corazon
14. xigxag
15. sidesprang
16. bumatlarge
17. Holyflare
18. purpletrator
have so much work to do so ill be back later tonight. plz dont spam too much!
Why is Artanis[Xp] town?
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On December 10 2013 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:50 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 22:37 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote:
Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all. He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time. 2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him) This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned. 3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam. Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum. 4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone). Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie. There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it. Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see. On December 10 2013 21:08 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon
2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time
3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?) Artanis, now I'd like you to answer: 1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon? I'm smelling some OMGUS here. 1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it. 2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him. 3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now. 1) Actually, if you looked at my earlier filter, I already voiced some suspicion of you when you defended Corazon (since he "grabbed attention") while accusing me (even though I grabbed attention intentionally unlike Corazon). With that logic, you should have defended me and accused Corazon (since he just unintentionally grabbed attention, tried to deflect it and then disappeared). While I was doing my aggro and grabbed attention as a natural part of my play... 2) Do you really think that pressure in the first hour of the game = securing a lynch? Granted, my vote is currently on Corazon, but really.... How is it a Mafia play to put heavy pressure at the very start? 3) I agree with those other points, but how am I the scummiest? How does your logic agree with purple and sidesprang being scummy, yet I'm the scummiest (with pretty illogical reasoning, even)? It just doesn't make sense. If something doesn't make sense, it's probably coming from scum. I think your reads on me/Corazon are definitely not making sense. ##Unvote
##Vote Artanis[Xp] 0) So you opened up the option to OMGUS early. That doesn't mean you're not OMGUS'ing. You've just gone full OMGUS. 1) I already told you that what Corazon did wasn't from a scum agenda. What you did conforms to one. Yes, he's been full of excuses and all that, but he hasn't done anything to further a scum agenda which is how you catch scum. 2) Early votes don't mean too much. What I'm saying is that Cora is an easy push and you know it. 3) You're the scummiest because you have the most content and there's more of you to go after. The other two have barely posted and are either smurfs or new, whereas you're held to higher standards. If something doesn't make sense, you try to figure it out. You're not doing that. Then enlighten me: 1) If my play is a possible scum play, how is it more likely scum than town? Because your play suggested a carelessness on who actually gets lynched, as long as it isn't you (or presumably your scumbuddies), and were happy to scattershot on everyone. Show nested quote +2) Why did you defend Corazon for grabbing attention (while actually he didn't intend to), yet accused me for doing just that ("creating confusion")? I've said this a million times. There was no scum agenda behind Corazon's posts. He doesn't give a shit about how he looks and doesn't construct his posts carefully. This in contrast to you. It's not just what, but also how. Show nested quote +3) How is it not a scum agenda to make excuses for lurking in advance and deflecting attention away from himself (like Corazon)? Because what good does it actually do? Give me a realistic situation in a game where people fall back to "hey I said at the start of the game that I'll be less active" and it having any meaningful affect whatsoever, especially when he followed it up with giving an inclination to lynching inactives himself. Show nested quote +4) How is it not a town agenda to create discussion and pressure aggressively (like me)? It's good to create discussion and pressure, but the questions should lead somewhere and not antagonize everyone, then try to find a weak target to latch onto as you did with Corazon. It's not the what, it's the how.
Are you seriously saying that my posting is crafted while Corazon's isn't?? This bias is incredible. Just look at his first post (it's extremely crafted):
On December 10 2013 06:02 Corazon wrote:
Alright guys, I just want to let you all know that I have some English work to do in the next two days so don't expect me to be super-active. I will try my best but I won't be spamming up the thread. I'm also going to try and take notes this game because I feel like I play better when I take notes. Plus, it makes me read everything a lot more in-depth.
If you are town and you are lurking, expect to be under the gun during the game and expect me to not be very nice to you post-game. I will be weighing activity a lot heavier in my voting decision this game than I have in the past. You all are warned. If you are going to take a sieste the entire time and not participate, I am going to be on you until you do so.
That is all.
Then you can compare it to my general aggro..... You even mention that my posting is "careless" yet you also say that "Corazon's posting is careless - in contrast to you". What the heck........ This just doesn't make sense at all.
If you think I'm trying to find a weak target, do you consider yourself as a weak target?
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On December 10 2013 22:58 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:56 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:54 kushm4sta wrote:
Player List:
1. raynpelikoneet
2. VayneAuthority
3. Pandain
4. Spaghetticus
5. kushm4sta
6. Grackaroni
7. JarJarDrinks
8. Artanis[Xp]
9. LSB
10. Xatalos
11. Plutarch
12. Alakaslam
13. Corazon
14. xigxag
15. sidesprang
16. bumatlarge
17. Holyflare
18. purpletrator
have so much work to do so ill be back later tonight. plz dont spam too much! Why is Artanis[Xp] town? hes got a lot of decent scumhunting so far.
Really? All I see is him piling illogical accusations on me while defending Corazon for weak reasons.
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On December 10 2013 23:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 23:02 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 22:50 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 22:37 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 22:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote:
Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all. He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time. 2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him) This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned. 3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam. Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum. 4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone). Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie. There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it. Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see. On December 10 2013 21:08 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon
2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time
3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?) Artanis, now I'd like you to answer: 1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon? I'm smelling some OMGUS here. 1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it. 2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him. 3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now. 1) Actually, if you looked at my earlier filter, I already voiced some suspicion of you when you defended Corazon (since he "grabbed attention") while accusing me (even though I grabbed attention intentionally unlike Corazon). With that logic, you should have defended me and accused Corazon (since he just unintentionally grabbed attention, tried to deflect it and then disappeared). While I was doing my aggro and grabbed attention as a natural part of my play... 2) Do you really think that pressure in the first hour of the game = securing a lynch? Granted, my vote is currently on Corazon, but really.... How is it a Mafia play to put heavy pressure at the very start? 3) I agree with those other points, but how am I the scummiest? How does your logic agree with purple and sidesprang being scummy, yet I'm the scummiest (with pretty illogical reasoning, even)? It just doesn't make sense. If something doesn't make sense, it's probably coming from scum. I think your reads on me/Corazon are definitely not making sense. ##Unvote
##Vote Artanis[Xp] 0) So you opened up the option to OMGUS early. That doesn't mean you're not OMGUS'ing. You've just gone full OMGUS. 1) I already told you that what Corazon did wasn't from a scum agenda. What you did conforms to one. Yes, he's been full of excuses and all that, but he hasn't done anything to further a scum agenda which is how you catch scum. 2) Early votes don't mean too much. What I'm saying is that Cora is an easy push and you know it. 3) You're the scummiest because you have the most content and there's more of you to go after. The other two have barely posted and are either smurfs or new, whereas you're held to higher standards. If something doesn't make sense, you try to figure it out. You're not doing that. Then enlighten me: 1) If my play is a possible scum play, how is it more likely scum than town? Because your play suggested a carelessness on who actually gets lynched, as long as it isn't you (or presumably your scumbuddies), and were happy to scattershot on everyone. 2) Why did you defend Corazon for grabbing attention (while actually he didn't intend to), yet accused me for doing just that ("creating confusion")? I've said this a million times. There was no scum agenda behind Corazon's posts. He doesn't give a shit about how he looks and doesn't construct his posts carefully. This in contrast to you. It's not just what, but also how. 3) How is it not a scum agenda to make excuses for lurking in advance and deflecting attention away from himself (like Corazon)? Because what good does it actually do? Give me a realistic situation in a game where people fall back to "hey I said at the start of the game that I'll be less active" and it having any meaningful affect whatsoever, especially when he followed it up with giving an inclination to lynching inactives himself. 4) How is it not a town agenda to create discussion and pressure aggressively (like me)? It's good to create discussion and pressure, but the questions should lead somewhere and not antagonize everyone, then try to find a weak target to latch onto as you did with Corazon. It's not the what, it's the how. Are you seriously saying that my posting is crafted while Corazon's isn't?? This bias is incredible. Just look at his first post (it's extremely crafted): On December 10 2013 06:02 Corazon wrote:
Alright guys, I just want to let you all know that I have some English work to do in the next two days so don't expect me to be super-active. I will try my best but I won't be spamming up the thread. I'm also going to try and take notes this game because I feel like I play better when I take notes. Plus, it makes me read everything a lot more in-depth.
If you are town and you are lurking, expect to be under the gun during the game and expect me to not be very nice to you post-game. I will be weighing activity a lot heavier in my voting decision this game than I have in the past. You all are warned. If you are going to take a sieste the entire time and not participate, I am going to be on you until you do so.
That is all. Are you seriously saying a first post in which he half contradicts himself is crafted? There was no thought to it at all. He just posted whatever was on his mind then left. Show nested quote +Then you can compare it to my general aggro..... You even mention that my posting is "careless" yet you also say that "Corazon's posting is careless - in contrast to you". What the heck........ This just doesn't make sense at all.
If you think I'm trying to find a weak target, do you consider yourself as a weak target? Your posting is careless in that you don't care who your target is, as long as it isn't you or other scum. You had to change target because if you kept sticking to Corazon and didn't address me you'd be screwed. You changed target because you saw the opportunity with thread sentiment changing against me, yes.
It's crafted in the sense that it's supposed to look like a post unworthy of being remembered (no content, but seems decent enough on a quick look). Just like Mafia like to start the game (often). There's a contradiction in what he says, but I can believe him not noticing it (if he considered that lurkers lurk for the whole game, while he would only lurk for D1).
Clearly I care about the lynch, since I've been pressuring all game. It's the best way to get reactions. Should I just stick with one target like you've done? That's more scummy than changing your opinions and pressuring different players.
How would I be screwed? What? Nobody is pressuring me except you. And nobody else is really pressuring you yet, either.
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rayn, comment on this. Do you think what Artanis is saying makes any sense?
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Hmm. I stand by my point that my play has been pro-town and Corazon's has been slightly scummy / null at best. I fail to see why Artanis accuses me and defends Corazon in this situation. His tunnel vision could just be misguided town as wel, I guess. But he's experienced so I don't understand why he would do this as town.
Grackaroni, what's with your vote on rayn? And where did you go?
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On December 10 2013 23:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I suggest you both let each other do your own stuff and discuss other things as at least i think your rant is not going anywhere and other people are not feeling strongly in a way or another regarding your cases on each other.
purple, Grackster, Spaghetticus, Cora (when he comes back) -> far more better targets of discussion atm imo.
Unfortunately they're all AFK / lurking.
I'll need to look through their filters when I get back home though.
How would you analyze their play so far? (besides the obvious lackluster LSB-vote with purple)
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On December 11 2013 00:04 Spaghetticus wrote:
I'm right here.
Your scumreads are still XigXag and Corazon? Anything new?
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On December 11 2013 00:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Grackaroni has not offered any insight into anything that has happened in this game. He did not comment on my "shitty case" before i asked him to. If he thinks the case in fact was shitty why would he not shoot it down in the first place? Townies should not let shitty cases lie around because it distracts from actual scumhunting. Then he OMGUSes me (for what?) and leaves.
Spaghetticus is more interested in defending himself than contributing onto anything that's been going on in the game. He just pops in and gives some irrelevant comments about something.
Cora needs to answer Plutarch's case on him.
I think i've been pretty clear in what i think about purple.
Hm. That seems to mirror my thoughts pretty well. I'll have to reread yet though.
What about Kush? I think that, weirdly enough, he's started to move from the policy lynch category into somewhat useful. That list post though... So easy for Mafia to do something like that. So pretty null for now IMO.
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On December 11 2013 00:20 Spaghetticus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 00:12 Xatalos wrote:On December 11 2013 00:04 Spaghetticus wrote:
I'm right here.
Your scumreads are still XigXag and Corazon? Anything new? Other than thinking slam scum, and Reyn town, not really. A few more slight scum reads but nothing worth mentioning. I'm up to p.26 of my reread.
I'd be interested to hear these scumreads.
Do catch up with the thread as well, though.
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On December 11 2013 00:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 00:18 Xatalos wrote:On December 11 2013 00:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Grackaroni has not offered any insight into anything that has happened in this game. He did not comment on my "shitty case" before i asked him to. If he thinks the case in fact was shitty why would he not shoot it down in the first place? Townies should not let shitty cases lie around because it distracts from actual scumhunting. Then he OMGUSes me (for what?) and leaves.
Spaghetticus is more interested in defending himself than contributing onto anything that's been going on in the game. He just pops in and gives some irrelevant comments about something.
Cora needs to answer Plutarch's case on him.
I think i've been pretty clear in what i think about purple. Hm. That seems to mirror my thoughts pretty well. I'll have to reread yet though. What about Kush? I think that, weirdly enough, he's started to move from the policy lynch category into somewhat useful. That list post though... So easy for Mafia to do something like that. So pretty null for now IMO. What Vayne says about kush is most likely true. While i hate it i can't say he's scum for it. I would love to see something other than "these dudes are town because of activity" - even a piece of kush-logic-scumhunting. If he remains useless vigi's shoot him.
Well, he definitely has improved his posting from the start. I agree though, that his reads are somewhat superficial so far.
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I guess my vote is wasted on Artanis at the moment, as well. Though I'm still unsettled by his (lack of) logic so far.
##Unvote
Lynching purpletrator seems fine based on his play so far. What I'm most bothered by is his completely aimless and apathetic playstyle. He has pretty much done nothing so far except throwing a vote on LSB, taking it back for some impossible-to-prove reason, and responding to some questions. Is he really trying to find scum? Doesn't look like it.
It's time for a Wagon of Justice.
##Vote purpletrator
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On December 11 2013 00:55 Corazon wrote:
In class. Read up to page 34
Plutarch is Marv because all Marv does is tunnel me whenever we are town together. You should just disregard everything he says about me tbh
HF is confirmation biased and refuses to push anyone else besides me. Play the game
Don't call Artanis scum for being right.
Still want Xatalos lynch, he's squirmed his way out of answering my case and refuses to reveal his thought process behind his town play, other than calling it town play
When I was talking about HF/purple, they were people I would lynch if Xatalos lynch doesn't fall through.
Will explain more later
What do you mean by "refuses to reveal his thought process"? Ask and I shall answer. Though my thoughts should be clear from the thread.
Not much worth replying to in your earlier case. I can go through it when I get home, I guess.
Holyflare? Really? Why is he scum? This just seems like an OMGUS war by you.
And Artanis is town for agreeing with you... Right..
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On December 10 2013 11:46 Corazon wrote:Xalatos Case So I'm still trying to understand the case meta. My newest attempt to get people to read my cases will be to put it in TL;DR and spoiler the proof/bigger arguments. TL;DR to why Xalatos is scum: 1. Has attacked myself, Slam, Kush, purple, Artanis, and rayn. this game. If he was trying to solve the game and was changing his mind, this would be ok. However, he is just throwing baseless accusations and votes around. 2. Using faulty logic to falsely attack me and justifies it as "aggression", then takes pains to point out that his "aggression" is his town meta. 3. Jumped on the bandwagon Plutarch started and was the first to vote for me, sensing a bandwagon forming. Filter dive (the actual case): + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2013 06:17 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:07 Plutarch wrote:On December 10 2013 06:02 Corazon wrote:
I just want to let you all know that I have some English work to do in the next two days so don't expect me to be super-active....
....If you are town and you are lurking, expect to be under the gun during the game and expect me to not be very nice to you post-game. I will be weighing activity a lot heavier in my voting decision this game than I have in the past. You all are warned. If you are going to take a sieste the entire time and not participate, I am going to be on you until you do so.
That is all. I see some dissonance between your first point and your second. Why would you be so inclined towards policy on low activity players when you have just acknowledged that people can be town and not be active? Perhaps as you say you only require town to be active and you are, in fact, scum? Indeed that's a starting post leaning on the scummy side. 1) Why mention these time restraints right after receiving the role PM rather than... before the game started maybe? 2) Focusing on policy/lurker lynching (the easiest target for Mafia). 3) Overall a pretty careful and and meek post with no content, yet managing to look reasonable on the first glance (somewhat) Looks like this game is starting well. These are really bad reasons to be focusing on me. His first point is WIFOM, his second point shows that he fails to think about why I would say that, and his third post is a blatant lie because of the nature of the beginning of the game. This looks like scum trying to jump on an easy lynch early. On December 10 2013 06:25 Xatalos wrote:May I ask... Where did you disappear to? This is the kind of non-contribution that Mafia love to make. Especially combined with fading to the background right after that. He makes this post right after attacking me. If he was town, he would be focusing on one read and trying to work with me instead of side-tracking himself on Slam. Also, didn't he just say I was scummy for talking about lurkers and non-contributors? He just contradicted himself. On December 10 2013 07:10 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 10 2013 07:04 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 07:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I don't like Xatalos right now and I'm curious if anyone sees what I see before I say why. Gladly oblige. Quick to hop on someone really really unreasonably early and with not the greatest logic in the world? My behavior right off is worse but he votes cora I am so bad I am useful to scum in the lategame, so he would rather mislynch cora who though not perfect, is definitely better at being town than me. Probably not exactly your point but I think you are also seeing the quick to lynch attitude. And the slightly unreasonable aggressiveness. I'm seeing a scattershot that's flinging poo everywhere and found someone to whom it will stick. I don't feel like he's trying to discern anyone's alignment, but rather start chaos and find a nice lynch target. ##Vote Xatalos Well, that's one way to look at it. The other is that I'm always relatively aggressive as town. This just screams to me of "hey, look how townie I am!". Xalatos is hoping that the town does not understand the difference between aggression and shit-flinging. His logic is bad (which I've proven) and his opinions are completely wrong because he just wants to paint me as scum by twisting the facts. He is trying to justify his shit-flinging by saying that it makes him town and that he does not like slow D1s. It's really suspicious in my eyes. He also made a post where he attacked me for being defensive. It's really hypocritical to say that because I've had to defend myself from the shit-flinging from him and HF. He's just looking for ways to kick me while I'm down and say "hey guys, I have a developed scum read!" when in fact he is just reaching for things to call me scummy. You guys have all seen the posts of him attacking others. He attacked Rayn for sleeping. WTF is that? Why call Rayn (someone who spams in every game he is in) a lurker because he was sleeping? That accomplishes nothing and it just shows he is trying to attack people for the sake of getting town credit. Unlike Xalatos, who will throw his vote around willy-nilly, I'm ready to lynch this guy.
1) None of my accusations have been "baseless". They've all been part of a bigger picture (pressuring players to make the game to focus on scumhunting faster) and backed with reasoning (contentless posting, active lurking, etc.).
2) Falsely attack you...? It was normal pressure for opening like you did (no content despite a somewhat lengthy opening post) and you continued with OMGUS -> disappearing for a long time. You seem to take this very personally. Perhaps you have a guilty conscience.
3) It wasn't really a bandwagon. Plutarch just questioned you a bit, I took it further and put on some real pressure. That's how you get reactions. And you did react with OMGUS on me/Holyflare/Plutarch and then leaving the thread for a long time... Not exactly what I'd expect from a townie.
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On December 11 2013 02:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I'm gonna step back from posting on Xata since no one seems to be reading it anyway and everything's already been said. Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 01:58 bumatlarge wrote:
Spaghetti man is pretty mafia. I'd lynch him if pandain was here. Kushmasta seems super silly. If you have to (/green) things this early that aren't questions to the host, you are playing badly.
##Vote Pandain What makes Spaghetti mafia to you?
Do you really think I'm a lynch candidate for today? Who else would you vote for if it's fruitless to vote for me? I think you mentioned purple. What do you think of this purple wagon?
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Spag, have you catched up with the thread? What about those slight scumreads that you mentioned?
By the way, this post made me think you're more likely town:
On December 10 2013 22:59 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Kush
Could you give insight into why you think the following people are green:
- Spaghetticus
- Xatalos
- Corazon
- Purpletrator
I'm on the list because while I know my alignment, it seems fairly unanimous that I've done little to demonstrate it.
It just seems counter-intuitive to bring pressure on yourself like that for no real reason.
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On December 11 2013 02:23 Spaghetticus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 02:21 Xatalos wrote:On December 11 2013 02:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I'm gonna step back from posting on Xata since no one seems to be reading it anyway and everything's already been said. On December 11 2013 01:58 bumatlarge wrote:
Spaghetti man is pretty mafia. I'd lynch him if pandain was here. Kushmasta seems super silly. If you have to (/green) things this early that aren't questions to the host, you are playing badly.
##Vote Pandain What makes Spaghetti mafia to you? Do you really think I'm a lynch candidate for today? Who else would you vote for if it's fruitless to vote for me? I think you mentioned purple. What do you think of this purple wagon? Isn't the post you quote specifically answering your question?
Not really. He only said that he'd stop posting about me, yet his vote remains and I'm apparently still his top scumread (for some reason).
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On December 11 2013 02:29 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 01:58 bumatlarge wrote:
Spaghetti man is pretty mafia. I'd lynch him if pandain was here. Kushmasta seems super silly. If you have to (/green) things this early that aren't questions to the host, you are playing badly.
##Vote Pandain i greened your mom. But seriously this is the worst post in the game! Some real oatsmaster level shit going on here. Why is speghetti mafia? Why are you already voting for a lurker?
At least I can agree with kush sometimes.
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On December 11 2013 02:33 Spaghetticus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 02:29 Xatalos wrote:On December 11 2013 02:23 Spaghetticus wrote:On December 11 2013 02:21 Xatalos wrote:On December 11 2013 02:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I'm gonna step back from posting on Xata since no one seems to be reading it anyway and everything's already been said. On December 11 2013 01:58 bumatlarge wrote:
Spaghetti man is pretty mafia. I'd lynch him if pandain was here. Kushmasta seems super silly. If you have to (/green) things this early that aren't questions to the host, you are playing badly.
##Vote Pandain What makes Spaghetti mafia to you? Do you really think I'm a lynch candidate for today? Who else would you vote for if it's fruitless to vote for me? I think you mentioned purple. What do you think of this purple wagon? Isn't the post you quote specifically answering your question? Not really. He only said that he'd stop posting about me, yet his vote remains and I'm apparently still his top scumread (for some reason). He(?) said he'd back off because he no longer thinks you a viable lynch, even though his convictions remain unchanged. Seems reasonable.
Actually he said: "I'm gonna step back from posting on Xata since no one seems to be reading it anyway and everything's already been said." Which means that he's going to focus elsewhere - but he didn't say that I wouldn't be his favored lynch.
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purpletrator, where art thou? Do you have any new insights on the game?
On December 11 2013 05:37 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 04:12 JarJarDrinks wrote:On December 11 2013 03:56 kushm4sta wrote:On December 11 2013 03:53 JarJarDrinks wrote:On December 11 2013 00:31 JarJarDrinks wrote:On December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote:
And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town. OK this sentence just reeks of a scum mindset w/ the knowledge that cora is town. Because yes, asking someone to vote for yourself is anti-town when you are actually town. But if you're scum then it's just a kinda dumb, ballsy move. But it isn't anti-town. Any comments on this? @ least would like to hear what people think of sidespring. i think it's equally dumb as either alignment, 100% alignment neutral. What is your point sir? btw voting you now based on on your scummy posting pattern. Also you bring up your shit point and want people to comment on it like its gold.
##unvote
##vote jarjar My point was that I wanted to know if anyone had comments on it and I wanted to know people thought of sidespring. Pretty sure that was implied. I'm reading sidespring as scum and would like to know if other people are as well. You think that asking people vote for yourself is alignment nuetral? Great, I agree that a person doing that doesn't help tell you what their alignment is. What I'm saying though is that it's anti-(whatever alignment that person is). So to say it's anti-town seems to imply that the person saying it is town.So before you call my point shit, make sure you understand what I'm saying. Exactly I currently view everyone as town, people have done scummy things. But no one are scum In my eyes yet, if so I would have voted for em. So why I would phrase that in any other way I really do not know, and tbh you just seem desperate to find something that is not there.
If someone is doing scummy things, then shouldn't he be scummy in your eyes? You haven't really done much besides softly accusing Corazon. Which are the scummy things you speak of? More specifically, who do you think have been doing scummy things?
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On December 11 2013 05:36 Corazon wrote:
Why does the vendetta b/w Grack and Spag have to spill into the thread discussion?
BTW Spag, why is it ok to call my answers scummy (I assume because of the defensive nature of the posts) but you don't read the questions?
I'm tired of getting assaulted with illogical and non alignment-indicative questions and I'm tired of getting my words twisted to make me look scummy. Stop it.
By the way, I did answer to your case. I'd also want clarification on how I have been "refusing to reveal my thought process"? You're being quite hypocritical (looking at your own accusations) if those were just baseless accusations...
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On December 11 2013 05:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 05:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2013 05:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 11 2013 05:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2013 05:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 11 2013 05:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad. I don't think i am switching my vote off him today. So you're just going to throw your vote away if he's not a lynch candidate today? Come on man. Talk to me about Spaghetticus. Actually my plan was to convince you guys into voting him but there is still 24h to go on this phase. Spaghetticus looks scummy for being overly defensive when people were just trying to get him into reading the thread and giving out reads. He always found some excuse to comment on something that did not make him go towards telling who is mafia. Can you tell me exactly what you find suspicious of Grack? Is it that he voted you without pressuring you? He hasn't really done anything but this: The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad. I don't know what purpose that serves or how he thinks he is helping the town. By telling me i am not allowed to call out people for shitting on other people because i played bad in another game? Why would someone who is town do that? After checking his filter I can see where you're coming from. I can see a scum grack, but I also know that grack likes to troll. Picking a fight with you early on seems like a terrible idea as scum, but he skated by due to terrible ideas in LXIII too whilst being scum. I wouldn't oppose a Grack lynch at this point but I'm not convinced on it.
Seriously. This is the most wishy-washy post I've seen yet... Leaving open the option to lynch, but also the option of abstaining from lynching him. It's as soft of a stance as you can possibly have. Just look at it.
It keeps feeling like a good idea to lynch Artanis after all.
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On December 11 2013 07:31 Holyflare wrote:Ok nobody asked me to further my read on bum when I just posted so I'm going to do it for you. Hey, HF, what did this mean? Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 05:24 Holyflare wrote:
I'm having real problems with bumatlarge right now. Oh, thanks for pointing that out! Well here's what I'm saying. Bumatlarge is a problem in our current environment. While the game is continuously developing with speech on people, reads on others and general scum hunting his attitude is not to participate in any of this for the majority of his first and second appearences in the thread. In fact, he urges AGAINST lynching people that aren't modkill territory. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 13:30 bumatlarge wrote:
I say we lynch someone who is threatening to be modkilled. I've had that argument before and I still stand by that it's not the same as a no lynch. Now, as a town mindset, I don't mind this if he kept it to himself and slightly pushed for a pandain lynch over time by gently easing us into it with constructive points on why so and so is better to keep in the game than a player who looks like he just got caught up IRL. However, he effectively disregards that pandain plays actively as all alignments by saying he doesn't care what pandain is capable of: Show nested quote +Also do you think Pandain as mafia is type of a player that goes inactive for any other than non-game related reasons? If not, why exactly are you trying to shut down discussion? ?!?!?! I don't meta this early. Why would you think that last statement. Am I distracting you? What benefit do these interactions bring anyone other than to antagonise or hide his alignment? People are curious as to why he wants to lynch off pandain - who is quite clearly not here - and his first response is to question why people are annoyed rather than actively discuss. He is also quite happy to give out scum read BEFORE he has read anything to do with the players: Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 01:58 bumatlarge wrote:
Spaghetti man is pretty mafia. I'd lynch him if pandain was here. Kushmasta seems super silly. If you have to (/green) things this early that aren't questions to the host, you are playing badly.
##Vote Pandain and then we all know he completely backtracked by saying "oh i read you now you aren't scum"... A person he had a TOP scum read on suddenly becomes not scum - spag over everyone else so far - just because he decided it was apt to read up on the person he called scum after he called him scum. Giving out reads on people based off idea's in your head is not a town mentality, or if it is, it is indicative of a LAZY town, something that bumatlarge surely wouldn't be as he was trying to instruct people how to play town at the start of the game. I could do a play by play of his following posts but he actively neglects a player in this game (kush) by saying he won't respond to questions raised by him. That being said, this is the thing that stands out to me THE MOST.... Purple has not participated in this game really AT ALL, i'd lump him in with pandain in terms of activity except purple looks way more scummy. Bum dictates that he is not using meta at all in this game and actively persuades people to not do the same but then justifies purples reads on LSB when purple indeed used meta: Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 03:35 bumatlarge wrote:On December 11 2013 03:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2013 03:16 bumatlarge wrote:On December 11 2013 03:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2013 03:01 bumatlarge wrote:On December 11 2013 02:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Bumatlarge do you think Pandains posting / lack of posting is the most important thing there is going on in thread? Don't worry, I'm reading your posts you to are a big question asker, but you seem to do that alot anyway. Put it this way. I'd like to enter Day 2 with everyone here except pandain. I'm not advocating a sort of no-lynch policy, but I don't think we have a good lynch. What is important in this thread at the moment is debatable. I want to keep the accusations streamlined, and I don't want 6 kushmastas giving me their green reads. The pressure levels are sweet. That's probably what's most important. Wait what? We are under 24h into the game and the only thing you want to talk about is someone who has not posted. Do you think people voting for him now does: 1) make him magically come here posting sooner? 2) leave us with more information than pressuring other people even if he does not come back and we lynch him? But he hasss posted. Information is overrated! He will come if we vote him. He is the missing corner piece to a fully fledged town! MEGAZORD ASSEMBLED! Also do you think Pandain as mafia is type of a player that goes inactive for any other than non-game related reasons? If not, why exactly are you trying to shut down discussion? ?!?!?! I don't meta this early. Why would you think that last statement. Am I distracting you? To me it seemed like you wanted to vote for an inactive, encouraged everyone else to vote for an inactive and therefore shut down any productive discussion until Pandain returns. Apparently this is not true (since you started talking about other things) so carry on, my post is no longer relevant. What do you think of my cases on Grackaroni and purpletrator? I believe pressure is possible outside of immediate voting and lynching. I am not attempting to derail any of your hard work. I actually liked purples reason for getting off LSB, but as LSB said, he should look at any other finishe game LSB has played, of which there is many. His reason for getting on LSB in the first place is not good. That whole interaction seemed like a joke up until that point. That said, let smurfs smurf. I'm all about not reading metas this game if you haven't noticed. I need to see more from grackaroni to be convinced of anything. He liked purples reason for getting off LSB!?!??!?!?!?! (META META META META META) Not only was purples reasoning for getting off of LSB atrocious but he is then telling us that he accepts it as a logical reason based on meta (that he doesn't want us to use) for getting off LSB? Why is it that he can pick and choose when to accept meta for people like LSB and purple but not for people like pandain etc? There is no good reason other than to say he doesn't like a purple lynch. He knows purple is a smurf, purple has been bad this game. Let's leave him alone. That is NOT a logical conclusion to draw from the entirety of his filter. I don't like it at all. but then.... Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 04:45 bumatlarge wrote:On December 11 2013 03:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
bumatlarge in fact my case on purple was not purely based on how he get on / off LSB, it was based on the fact that not a single piece of their interaction could possibly share any light on LSB's alignment to him. It was a useless contribution that was in a crappy way made look like he was contributing something. I have to agree. The post he voted LSB with really sells it. he agrees with rayn.................? I want to hear his responses but my unvote/vote is heavily leaning towards him right now.
bumatlarge's opinions do seem flip-floppy. I'd like to hear his thought process regarding the posts you mentioned.
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On December 11 2013 07:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 06:13 Grackaroni wrote:On December 11 2013 05:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 11 2013 05:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2013 05:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 11 2013 05:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2013 05:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 11 2013 05:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad. I don't think i am switching my vote off him today. So you're just going to throw your vote away if he's not a lynch candidate today? Come on man. Talk to me about Spaghetticus. Actually my plan was to convince you guys into voting him but there is still 24h to go on this phase. Spaghetticus looks scummy for being overly defensive when people were just trying to get him into reading the thread and giving out reads. He always found some excuse to comment on something that did not make him go towards telling who is mafia. Can you tell me exactly what you find suspicious of Grack? Is it that he voted you without pressuring you? He hasn't really done anything but this: The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad. I don't know what purpose that serves or how he thinks he is helping the town. By telling me i am not allowed to call out people for shitting on other people because i played bad in another game? Why would someone who is town do that? After checking his filter I can see where you're coming from. I can see a scum grack, but I also know that grack likes to troll. Picking a fight with you early on seems like a terrible idea as scum, but he skated by due to terrible ideas in LXIII too whilst being scum. I wouldn't oppose a Grack lynch at this point but I'm not convinced on it. Wait what. I didn't skate by for having terrible ideas in LXIII. I skated by for bussing half my team lol. Well yeah, what I mean is you skated by with trolling because you happened to bus half your team as well.
HF, I see a case that makes Bum hypocritical and bad, but not scum. I'd also appreciate it if scum stopped trying to get me lynched. It's not happening today Xata. I'm not scum for doubting my read.
It's not the fact that you were doubting your read. It's the fact that you went to such great lengths to leave your options open in any direction.
But I guess you're right. It's not really fruitful to pursue you now. It's hard to say anyone's alignment with high certainty during D1, and if you were town, it would be a bigger loss than several other players.
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On December 11 2013 08:19 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 08:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 11 2013 08:14 Holyflare wrote:
How can you possibly talk all about pushing scum agenda's in regards to Xatalos but whenever another person that displays blatant contradictions to his own actions appears it's downplayed to being bad/hotheaded? Why couldn't Xatalos be bad? Scum agenda is to push people off others with reasoning that appeases people, a player went actively against their own conditions to do this and it's just because he is bad? Since when do contradictions make someone scum? I contradict myself all the time. It's scum that are worried about contradicting themselves because they don't know if they can explain it. I feel like you're searching for scum in the wrong way and nothing you posted in your analysis leads me to believe that he is scum. I don't think you understand. Contradictions in a normal play such as changing a read is fine, that can be seen as towny. However, almost half of his posts actively STATE that he dislikes to use meta but then he defends a player - who has a lot of votes - based on them using meta, whereas previously he dismissed everyone that has used it. That is an unacceptable contradiction.
Do you think that purple and bum are scum together? That seems to be the way this line of logic is going in.
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On December 11 2013 08:27 Holyflare wrote:
No I'm not drawing conclusions like that because I do not know their alignments.
Fair enough. I'm just trying to think of another reason for this inconsistency, and it's hard to think of a satisfying reason. I guess we'll get a better picture of the situation when he comes back.
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On December 11 2013 08:34 Alakaslam wrote:
Spaghetticus...
Your handle, coupled with your posts this time about, remind me of the stuff I would gladly remove from my freezer, before I discovered I was a celiac...
I never liked my food frozen, however. See, I was loth to use a microwave for this reason.
Time... To burn. Fires of the Titanic, unite!
##Vote: Spaghetticus
Any reasoning? It's posts like this that make you detrimental.
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Alakaslam would be a better Vigi shot, since (almost) everyone seems to agree that he's detrimental. The voting patterns wouldn't really tell that much of anyone's alignment, at least compared to players who have reasons not to be lynched (besides a statistical chance of flipping town). It's better to lynch players who have a higher chance of flipping scum and whose flip will give good insights into the voters. One mistake we made in GoT Mafia was to focus too much on lurkers/anti-town players, and it ended badly.
On December 11 2013 16:01 Grackaroni wrote:
I'm not really buying Bum's story. If he wants to disregard day1 reads because they are weak and just lynch the most useless player that is his opinion. But if he's against lynching alakaslam, who openly states he will not be useful, just because he addresses his posts to Rayn then we have a problem. It really can't be argued that slam will be more useful than Pandain.
I like this post. Bum's main reason for voting Pandain was because he hadn't posted yet. Now Pandain has posted quite a bit, but bum just keeps going for him regardless of that. It doesn't really look like bum tries to figure out Pandain's alignment, he just chose a target and keeps going for it. That's not a town mindset. I want to hear from bum why Pandain is still a "good lynch" ASAP.
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On December 11 2013 19:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah i agree with that Xatalos.
##unvote
The risk is that the Vigi(s) will just shoot someone else and Alakaslam will live to LYLO. That wouldn't be a good situation, since it's clearly difficult to say anything about his alignment. And he's being harmful to the discussion...
But even so, I think he's such a likely Vigi shot that it's better to lynch someone else.
purpletrator hasn't still posted, and the pressure on him has died almost completely. Hopefully he comes back soon. It'd be sad if he was scum and slipped away by just lurking.
Hopefully bum has some explanations soon as well.
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On December 11 2013 20:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Slam starts contributing in English or we lynch him.
purple starts contributing or we lynch him.
In case both of those do not happen one gets lynched other one vigged.
In case both of those happen we lynch the scummiest dude.
I'd prefer lynching someone like Artanis or Corazon over Alakaslam.
Anti-town/lurker lynches tend to be just giant bandwagons where nobody learns anything. Even if the coin-flip is a success and he flips scum, it doesn't tell almost anything about the voters/non-voters. It's easy to vote for a player like that no matter what alignment the player or his voter is...
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bum is also in that category unless he can explain why Pandain is scum really well.
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By the way, I see Spaghetticus mentioned as a lynch candidate every once in a while. I don't really agree. Just look at these posts:
On December 10 2013 22:59 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Kush
Could you give insight into why you think the following people are green:
- Spaghetticus
- Xatalos
- Corazon
- Purpletrator
I'm on the list because while I know my alignment, it seems fairly unanimous that I've done little to demonstrate it.
On December 11 2013 02:42 Spaghetticus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 02:28 Xatalos wrote:Spag, have you catched up with the thread? What about those slight scumreads that you mentioned? By the way, this post made me think you're more likely town: On December 10 2013 22:59 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Kush
Could you give insight into why you think the following people are green:
- Spaghetticus
- Xatalos
- Corazon
- Purpletrator
I'm on the list because while I know my alignment, it seems fairly unanimous that I've done little to demonstrate it. It just seems counter-intuitive to bring pressure on yourself like that for no real reason. They're just single digit contenders on my spreadsheet (on a scale from -100 being mafia, and 100 being town). I adjust scores accordingly after each incident I find interesting. It's more to keep track of my perspective over time, as I often forget the small stuff. It's really not worth talking about, and I don't want scum knowing my reads unless I'm acting on them. I appreciate the town read, though think it's something I'd do as scum too. No I haven't caught up with the thread. I'm still stuck on the same page. I think it's more important to attend to the here and now, and I'm losing focus again (tis 5am).
On December 11 2013 16:31 Spaghetticus wrote:Slam if you make a decent case on me I'll reconsider lynching you 
They all just read to me as town. It's not impossible for this attitude to be a ploy, but the far more likely scenario is that Spag is just not afraid of suspicions at all. Which means town.
I also agree with this:
On December 11 2013 01:03 Spaghetticus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 00:55 Corazon wrote:
Plutarch is Marv because all Marv does is tunnel me whenever we are town together. You should just disregard everything he says about me tbh
HF is confirmation biased and refuses to push anyone else besides me. Play the game
Don't call Artanis scum for being right.
Be less bad please. How do you expect to convince anyone with this garbage? So we should take you word for it that not only are you trustworthy, you are able to discern smurfs at a glance, and you deem that this smurf is marv, and you also deem that Marv tunnels you, that he does so unfairly, and we should therefore disregard it? How can you not see that this is too much to swallow? HF is biased because he thinks you're scummy and doesn't change his vote with the wind? Artanis can't be scum because you agree with him on something? You're either making terrible arguments because you're terrible town, or you're just bullshitting to look like you're doing something. Can someone weigh in on how good Corazon is supposed to be? If he's at all capable at mafia I want him hung.
The only worrying part is that there isn't much scumhunting in his filter. The previous post is probably the post closest to scumhunting, although it didn't come to any conclusion.
On December 11 2013 16:28 Spaghetticus wrote:
I'm surprised Plutarch wants to lynch Slam, but I happen to agree so...
Slam is still not talking sense. It looks to me that he's scaled back the persona just enough to give him a fighting chance of wifoming his eminent demise.
I wanted to find someone better to lynch and I wanted Slam to step up, but neither of these things have happened and I am not unhappy with this direction for day one. I was posturing with my pressure vote, but this doesn't rule out me actually voting him.
Alakaslam isn't a terrible lynch, but it's definitely the easiest way out of D1. And it's a bit worrying that Spag's only committal to a lynch is someone like him.
Spag, if you're town, you need to step up your scumhunting. You mentioned that you had several slight scumreads, but you haven't shared any of them yet (except Corazon, I'd assume). Otherwise you're looking townish, but that's a worrying part about you.
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On December 11 2013 20:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
tbh i am getting sick of people who refuse to play the game they have joined in. If it takes me to lose 10 games where we policy lynch town lurkers / shitposters i don't care. Maybe they stop joining games then.
I woke up today and i read 10 pages of shit about policy lych / not policy lych and it made meangry because those posts could have been something uselful. It stops now.
That's a noble attitude, but I prefer to focus only on the current game. And I don't want to lose now if it means (possibly) better games somewhere in the future.
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On December 11 2013 20:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Xatalos: Corazon is highly emotional player who contradicts himself as town, a lot. To me it seems like he's just pissed off for accusations against him because he finds them unreasonable. Stupid? Yes. Scummy? Not necessarily. He's far more reasonable and tries to control his emotions as scum. I don't see anything scummy in what he has said this game, mor likely it's just frustration. What you just quoted from Spaghetticus is attacking Cora for being emo. That's not scumhunting, that's an easy way to attack someone who says dumb stuff. The fact is Spag was here last night, he said he will catch up and share his thoughts. He ended up not catching up and and instead made 60 fluff posts about something irrelevant (defended himself against people who just wanted him to share his opinions). I find that highly suspicious.
That's why I said "closest to scumhunting" At least there were some elements of scumhunting, such as pointing out that someone is not making sense. Cora's posting could be town stupidity, but it definitely doesn't have a townish vibe.
While on that topic, do you really think Cora's reaction is townish? I'd say it's more of a scummy reaction to get angry and start flinging accusations back at your accusers. It's not even really frustrated, but rather in a hurry to focus attention elsewhere. The fact that he hasn't really done anything outside of OMGUSing should be worrying.
I dislike Spag posting without catching up with the thread. That's pretty null, though, in my opinion. Pretty careless as scum to do that either.
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On December 11 2013 20:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 20:53 Xatalos wrote:On December 11 2013 20:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
tbh i am getting sick of people who refuse to play the game they have joined in. If it takes me to lose 10 games where we policy lynch town lurkers / shitposters i don't care. Maybe they stop joining games then.
I woke up today and i read 10 pages of shit about policy lych / not policy lych and it made meangry because those posts could have been something uselful. It stops now. That's a noble attitude, but I prefer to focus only on the current game. And I don't want to lose now if it means (possibly) better games somewhere in the future. And yes, i am focusing on the current game. Slam and purple at this point are no help to town, they help mafia with their actions. That's the truth regardless of their alignment. Therefore they should be lynched.
Well, they're both okay lynches. Purple more than Alakaslam (my vote is still on him after all). I'm just saying that Alakaslam is pretty much an easy policy lynch that would be better dealt with a Vigi.
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Hmm. Maybe I've focused too much on Spag's "towntells". It's certainly easier to fake stuff like that than scumhunting, and there isn't really scumhunting by Spag despite a large filter.
Plutarch, you agree with rayn that Cora's anger seems genuine? I don't really think so. He's just focused on countering those who have accused him and not much else.
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LSB seems pretty lurky and apathetic towards the lynch so far. He's definitely someone worth careful observing.
I'm glad that other people can see why Cora is suspicious.
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On December 11 2013 22:31 Plutarch wrote:
Xatalos are you around? what do you think of a spag lynch now?
On my phone, but yes.
I'm not sure because I got a townish vibe from those posts I mentioned earlier. His lack of scumhunting really does make him look more scummy, though. It'd be preferable to Alakaslam, and since it looks like Artanis is not happening today, or probably purple/Cora, it seems like a decent choice in this situation.
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I should reread XigXag when I get home. For now, my preferred option would be either purple or Cora. Which one do you think is more scummy? I should reread both as well.
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Well sidesprang, what IS your read on Artanis..?
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Going to be in an exam for a couple of hours soon, but I should be back sometime before deadline.
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Back ASAP, but must be be AFK for maybe 30min.
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On December 12 2013 05:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Don't have much time now but I see support for a Spaghetti lynch and I'm happy to join in on that. Bandwagon powers activate!
##Unvote
##Vote Spaghetticus
Lol. This is probably the most bandwagony vote so far.
Catching up.
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purpletrator, I see you started to contribute...
On December 12 2013 02:52 purpletrator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 02:51 VayneAuthority wrote:
where is the contradiction?
You know that I'm pushing him as a mislynch in the thread, killing him as a night kill is pure WIFOM. Completely unrelated. You said you'd never kill him, then you said you'd NK him to make the game more fun for yourself. Direct and absolute contradiction (that I do not find scummy, but its there).
I actually like this post, since I also don't think it was a scummy contradiction. Could someone explain what's so scummy about it?
On December 12 2013 05:18 purpletrator wrote:
cora better have notes....
##Unvote: Corazon
##Vote: Spaghetticus
But this vote I don't like. purple doesn't even mention that he's suspicious of spag and suddenly hops on the bandwagon...
purple, why did you vote Spag?
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I really don't like the Spag wagon. It has both Artanis and purple... And neither of them provided any reasoning for voting him.
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On December 12 2013 05:42 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:41 Xatalos wrote:
I really don't like the Spag wagon. It has both Artanis and purple... And neither of them provided any reasoning for voting him. Bussing exists that's why I linked greyhound.
That's true.
Since it seems to be between Spag and VA, I agree that Spag is the better choice.
##Unvote
##Vote Spaghetticus
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On December 12 2013 05:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:41 Xatalos wrote:
I really don't like the Spag wagon. It has both Artanis and purple... And neither of them provided any reasoning for voting him. The problem is not the voters. I have the same problem (well not really with purple, as he basically chose between spag/vayne)... It's that Spag is so fucking scummy and the evidence is far better than on vayne.
I'm not still sure why VA is #2 in votes. Apparently he contradicted himself, but why is he scum just for that? It's not like he needed to talk about how he'd love to NK / lynch Alakaslam.
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On December 12 2013 05:43 Corazon wrote:
Xatalos do you believe in any of the accusations you make?
?
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On December 12 2013 05:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:49 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 05:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 12 2013 05:41 Xatalos wrote:
I really don't like the Spag wagon. It has both Artanis and purple... And neither of them provided any reasoning for voting him. The problem is not the voters. I have the same problem (well not really with purple, as he basically chose between spag/vayne)... It's that Spag is so fucking scummy and the evidence is far better than on vayne. I'm not still sure why VA is #2 in votes. Apparently he contradicted himself, but why is he scum just for that? It's not like he needed to talk about how he'd love to NK / lynch Alakaslam. Yes he needed, did you read? I confronted him about his thoughts on lynching Slam.
I read through pretty fast. Gonna reread that portion.
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On December 12 2013 05:51 Corazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:51 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 05:43 Corazon wrote:
Xatalos do you believe in any of the accusations you make? ? Do you have some sort of win-con to call everyone scum?
Do you have some sort of a win-con to call scum everyone who call you scum?
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On December 12 2013 05:55 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:52 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 05:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 12 2013 05:49 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 05:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 12 2013 05:41 Xatalos wrote:
I really don't like the Spag wagon. It has both Artanis and purple... And neither of them provided any reasoning for voting him. The problem is not the voters. I have the same problem (well not really with purple, as he basically chose between spag/vayne)... It's that Spag is so fucking scummy and the evidence is far better than on vayne. I'm not still sure why VA is #2 in votes. Apparently he contradicted himself, but why is he scum just for that? It's not like he needed to talk about how he'd love to NK / lynch Alakaslam. Yes he needed, did you read? I confronted him about his thoughts on lynching Slam. I read through pretty fast. Gonna reread that portion. ALso this: Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 04:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Here is another one. On December 11 2013 13:03 VayneAuthority wrote:
I hope he flips town so I am actually justified in saying that he is hindering the game. If he's scum he can do whatever the fuck he wants. Read that portal game by greymist if you want to see how hard it is to lynch this guy as scum. His entire team bussed him and he still barely got lynched. nuff said. On December 11 2013 13:10 VayneAuthority wrote:
Considering the decent resistance in this game at the day 1 stage I would say there is actually a decent chance for him to flip scum combined with the points I have already made. There is quite a group of people that have pretty much ignored him altogether, which is what I usually do. I would like a better reason on why we shouldn't lynch him besides "lol vigi" because we all know nobody uses their vig shots like that; they always end up being hero vig shots. ... i really don't get it.. i really don't...
................. Okay.
It seems like rayn forced VA into this situation where he started to contradict himself. I take it back that it would be unnecessary for him to post this stuff. Clearly there's something wrong with his mindset.
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On the other hand... I'm still not sure why he's scum for these.
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Hmmm.
That was a mess of a deadline. I'm sure the vote swings tell something though (unlike with a Alakaslam lynch).
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On December 12 2013 06:05 VayneAuthority wrote:the irony of the 2 people most wanting to kill alakaslam being up for lynch. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/T7M18Uj.jpg)
I hope you agree that this lynch was far more informative than policy lynching Alakaslam. He can be policy Vigi'd equally well.
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On December 12 2013 06:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 06:04 Xatalos wrote:
Hmmm.
That was a mess of a deadline. I'm sure the vote swings tell something though (unlike with a Alakaslam lynch). So do you or do you not think vayne is mafia? Or wtf is this about?
Not really at the moment. I'm trying to figure out how exactly he became the runner-up for the lynch.
1) You pressure him
2) He starts making weird and contradictory arguments
3) Several people jump on him
I didn't like his posts, but I wouldn't say they warrant an immediate lynch. Since you pressured him first, it's possible that he just messed up and "scumslipped" by revealing an inconsistent thought process. But... Somehow I think it's more likely that scum would think about what they say more carefully. And he seems to believe what he's saying, or at least he's persistent.
Do you think he's scum at the moment?
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On December 12 2013 06:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 06:07 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 06:05 VayneAuthority wrote:
the irony of the 2 people most wanting to kill alakaslam being up for lynch.
...deleted the image...
I hope you agree that this lynch was far more informative than policy lynching Alakaslam. He can be policy Vigi'd equally well. I mean this post. What are you expecting Vayne to answer? "Yeah this this and this guy are scummy for defending scum"? He was the fucking counterwagon, regardless of his alignment he didn't learn or "didn't learn" anything.
Mostly I referred to those who suddenly bandwagoned Spag out of the blue. With Alakaslam something like that wouldn't really be weird. He was a policy lynch candidate after all.
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On December 12 2013 06:18 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 06:15 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 06:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 12 2013 06:04 Xatalos wrote:
Hmmm.
That was a mess of a deadline. I'm sure the vote swings tell something though (unlike with a Alakaslam lynch). So do you or do you not think vayne is mafia? Or wtf is this about? Not really at the moment. So then what makes you think all the vote swings @ the deadline mean something?
It's always suspicious when someone never (or barely) mentions a player before and then eagerly jumps on the bandwagon.
For example, Artanis and purple.
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But if we were lynching Alakaslam, it wouldn't really matter, since everyone agreed that he should be lynched anyway.
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On December 12 2013 06:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:I don't think purple comes out suspicious of voting for Spag. He clearly wanted to lynch Cora and consolidated on a target he felt was more scummy. I liked his thought process on what he said about Cora, especially about the notes. Artanis on the other hand... The first notion of Spag in his filter is the second last post of his before the vote.. This: Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 08:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 11 2013 08:34 Alakaslam wrote:
Spaghetticus...
Your handle, coupled with your posts this time about, remind me of the stuff I would gladly remove from my freezer, before I discovered I was a celiac...
I never liked my food frozen, however. See, I was loth to use a microwave for this reason.
Time... To burn. Fires of the Titanic, unite!
##Vote: Spaghetticus While I like who you voted, I would like to hear the reasons why you voted for him. Not to be a buzzkill, but preferably in a serious manner. I am pretty sure Artanis is scum. He's far better than this as town.
Hm, okay. I also liked purple's post about VA.
I'm sure there are other players whose voting patterns are suspicious. You mentioned Grackaroni. Corazon basically hammered Spag to protect himself... Although Corazon did call Spag scummy early in the game.
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On December 12 2013 05:12 bumatlarge wrote:
I wish I could contribute more, but I'm caught up at work
##vote bumatlarge
What the heck was this? This may be too dumb for scum, but bum clearly didn't care about the lynch. By the way, bum, you still haven't answered. Why did you continue tunneling Pandain despite the fact that 1) your original reason to tunnel him was because he was lurking 2) he started posting and it apparently didn't matter to you at all? Why didn't your read adjust after new evidence to consider?
On December 10 2013 17:03 xigxag wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 15:53 VayneAuthority wrote:
not to mention that in TL Noire before kush got replaced out he was playing this lurky playstyle thing and his slot was scum Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 16:46 VayneAuthority wrote:
I will clarify the ## thing, as it's a case of timeline
Noire was played, kush did his thing etc
## was played after it, which is the game that kush decided to stop posting angrily and take it easy
So that is why comparing his playstyle to pre- ## and post ## is not a good idea atm I just cannot reconcile these two thoughts with each other. They do not align in any way. One says that because of Noir Kush's play here could be scum, the second says that Noir was before ## and therefore cannot be applied to this game. The timeline thing would be fine if Vayne had not directed me towards Noir himself. Vayne's suggestion of looking at Kush's meta suggests to me that it is his goal to appear to be an active participant in this game while not in fact working towards a correct scum lynch. His attempt to dissuade my town read on kush suggests that if Vayne is scum kush is not. I find it impossible for both of the above posts to come from the same townie thinking in the same way. ##Vote: VayneAuthority
I really don't like XigXag's disappearance, but his vote was somewhat reasonable at least (at the time).
XigXag, do VA's newer contradictions make him more likely scum in your opinion? How have your other reads changed?
On December 12 2013 03:24 Grackaroni wrote:
Geez Vayne actually slipped lol. Un-lynchable scum record goodbye I will take pleasure in this.
##Unvote: Alakaslam
##Vote: VayneAuthority
I don't think it prevents Slam from being scum.
What's this again? This vote switch is really easy. Grackaroni, why do you think VA's contradiction makes him totally scum all of a sudden? It looks like Grackaroni found an easy place to park his vote and eagerly did just that...
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On December 12 2013 16:52 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 16:11 kushm4sta wrote:
alaka got reads? what are they why are they Vayneauthority, Town. Based on being equal strength with my prior error. Plutarch, null. I feel is either a player similar to vayne or scum. WIFOM. JarJarDrinks, Strong town. He appears to have seen much as I did. Indeed I feel the more townie I see someone the more likely vayne is to attack them, part of why at first I figured he (VA) was scum, now I figure that is why he is so townie. He is disgruntled with my failed attempts to look like Chezinu and is lashing out at anyone who was willing to respond to me in a non hostile manner. In fact there is also the likely bitterness brought on by last game inducing him to act as he is, Which strengthens my townread on him. Scum has no reason to be bitter about poor town performance. Kushmasta, Null. Very quiet. Has been both townie and WIFOM scummy. Null with no leaning. Vayneauthority, scum. How can I have both a townread and a scum read on someone? The scum read is old. If I am right then, vayne is playing to the style I politely rejected, when coached as scum. I will not elaborate yet.
Why is Plutarch scummy?
Otherwise it seems like there's been some progress with Alakaslam. Maybe he'll actually play the game after all.
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On December 12 2013 20:12 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:44 JarJarDrinks wrote:
@Cora
when you take notes, you use font color tags? Why did nobody follow up on this apart from JJD? Not only are cora's notes up to only 1/4ish of the thread but they aren't even real notes. He didn't post them immediately when asked to even though he was around and only posted them at the end of the day. He has read up to page 21 but his last post/summary was on Xatalos' vote on him which occurred on page 17. This looks like he didn't have time to fully write these notes off the top of his head up to page 21 where he claimed he had read. He also mentions that his notes have 3 main points: Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 03:00 Corazon wrote:
To whomever asked: yes I have notes until page 21. I've been too busy to take notes since then. I will probably pick up with the notes starting D2. Do you want to see them? There are only 3 or so major points in them. One on Spag, one on purple, and one on Vayne Spag, purple, VA. Yet, within his notes these points never feature as main points + Show Spoiler + Plutarch with a really useless post to call out Slam to begin, says he has to leave and does
Spag with a really bad first post coming into the thread and then leaving
Plutarch then twists my words and attacks me for no reason, HF jumps on bandwagon
HF tries to justify jumping on the bandwagon, citing “new information”
Xatalos jumps on the bandwagon as well, not reading my response “looks like the game is starting well”
Artanis challenges HF on whether talking about post restriction is scum or town
Plutarch equates pressuring lurkers to LAL
Xatalos votes for me, seems like he sees the bandwagon forming and wants to be the first one on it, then calls out slam for being inactive (conflict of interest)
Purpletraitor “I am VT”
Spag asks HF/Grack if their gamestyle is going to be different as town (what kind of question is this?), says that he will vote for a trolling Grack
LSB enters by voting Purple, screams of trolliness and randomness
HF makes a really terrible case and votes for me. He jumps way too hard to conclusions, saying I OMGUS’d and was playing defensive. Was he paying any attention at all to Basics mafia?
Xatalos calls out a third person (kush), saying he will lynch a trolling kush
Artanis defends me, saying that scum would not be so open with their play
VA makes a decent but wrong point. Give him town cred for trying but he is wrong (also says he will not vote for me. He wants the right lynch, not the easy one. Big town cred)
Xatalos +1s HF
Xatalos attacks me, saying my post was “passable non-contribution” (which he is wrong)
Kush proclaims he is doing a lurk strat...help us plz
Spag defends himself, basically very defensive like me but he doesn’t get called out for it
Alakaslam points out that Xatalos says Slam is scummier, yet votes for me
Artanis/Slam say Xatalos is throwing shit around, Artanis votes for him
Xatalos: “I’m always really aggressive as town” there is difference between being aggressive and throwing shit around
Xatalos says my first post hoped people would glance over it. Makes no sense as if that was my goal, I would not have posted it first and attracted attention to myself
Rayn enters, votes for Purple, Artanis disagrees about “scummiest vote in thread”
LSB fears townie on townie action
Artanis asks LSB for reads, LSB replies it is too early but says Xatalos needs a filter check
HF attacks me without reading my filter, says that I’m attacking the flavor of the thread but that is exactly what he is doing to me (???)
Xatalos says that his aggression is townie and he likes the start to the game (ofc he is going to say that, it’s non-indicative)
Purple gets all mad and votes LSB, saying LSB is out to get him even though LSB isn’t (??)
HF trying to draw discussion away from Xatalos but it was kind of off him for a page or so
Slam is posting in riddles...damn it
Xatalos finally talks about someone besides me, asks Spag for reads
Xatalos calls me out for playing defensive cause I’ve had to defend his shit, so scummy
Slam T.T votes for Xatalos
HF makes another shit case and forgets to see how I defend his first one
More T.T Slam...maybe he only makes sense when he is scum. Draws Spag’s vote
Xatalos thinks sleeping is a scum tell....lol
VA votes for Slam...i don’t mind that
Spag wants to throw away D1 to lynch Slam...T.T
Xatalos attacks another player, votes for Kush
Xatalos calls out purple
Xatalos votes for me. This guy can’t keep his story straight
Town Reads: VA
Scum Reads (in order): Xatalos, HF, purple (weak)
For a main point to have purple included why is his scum read on purple "(weak)" compared to me and Xatalos? Why is spag considered a major point but does not feature in any of his scum or town lists? These things don't make any sense at all. The notes come to the conclusion of nothing either. His entire notebase is a summary of what happened but he doesn't conclude why X player would do Y action other than that action is scummy or that he doesn't mind it. This is not the mindset of Cora from B2B who was actually scum hunting. He has played the victim card WAY too many times and was quite happy to throw a vote on spag right at the end of the day to "get rid of a player who was on him"...... lol Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:45 Corazon wrote:
Yeah I might as well hammer Spag. Maybe I can have some breathing room with him gone.
##unvote
##Vote: Spaghetticus I was willing to lean off cora for a bit after the start of the game because of his attitude to being pressured because it was similar to B2B etc but I do not think it is real anymore, his notes only go up to page 17 not 21 so the fact that he doesn't have any opinions from after that means that he cannot possibly know whether or not "people are still on him" like he constantly whines about. This is a game of finding scum and he knows that a little pressure here and there on someone is a way to get to that goal yet, to draw no conclusions from it other than summarise (and colourise) posts is a feigning of contribution. Also, Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 06:40 Corazon wrote:On December 11 2013 02:07 Spaghetticus wrote:
You must understand, as I'm only going to say this once more. I'm hardly reading what they say about you. I'm reading your responses. They are giving me scumchills. Stop defending yourself by slinging mud on your assailants as it's not at all relevant to my perspective and it's doing you no favours. All I see is someone who has not done any townwork who is showing no intention of doing anything but making other look more scummy than themselves despite the lack of scumsign. Calm yourself. Use reasoning. Be useful. How is this thought process good. He thinks my responses are scummy yet doesn't try to see why I would respond like that. He just says they are scummy without looking at the big picture. I thought this was apt with his "notes" hahahahhaha cora is a funny guy. _______________________________________________________________________________ Then we have purple who unvotes cora BEFORE he posted the notes (just because he said he had them..?) onto spag Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:18 purpletrator wrote:
cora better have notes....
##Unvote: Corazon
##Vote: Spaghetticus He has been sheeping Plu's reasoning a lot. I do not see anything constructive about Spag in any of his posts. One of the only larger posts in his filter is DEFENDING cora saying that this is how town cora would most likely play but then with regards to waiting for the notes he finds him increasingly more and more scummy. Not only does he NOT wait for cora to post the notes before he unvotes he actively sheeps onto the spag train. Cora eventually posted his notes but nothing was said in regards to them AT ALL. The person he voted for, waiting for notes, posted a god awful summary up to page 17 that had nothing conclusive and that didn't follow his suggested town/scum list and posts he made previously but decides that spag is the better lynch because plu said some good reasoning? I don't like it at all. ____________________________________________________________________________________________ Xatalos has posted many reasons for spag being town: + Show Spoiler +On December 11 2013 20:48 Xatalos wrote:By the way, I see Spaghetticus mentioned as a lynch candidate every once in a while. I don't really agree. Just look at these posts: Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 22:59 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Kush
Could you give insight into why you think the following people are green:
- Spaghetticus
- Xatalos
- Corazon
- Purpletrator
I'm on the list because while I know my alignment, it seems fairly unanimous that I've done little to demonstrate it. Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 02:42 Spaghetticus wrote:On December 11 2013 02:28 Xatalos wrote:Spag, have you catched up with the thread? What about those slight scumreads that you mentioned? By the way, this post made me think you're more likely town: On December 10 2013 22:59 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Kush
Could you give insight into why you think the following people are green:
- Spaghetticus
- Xatalos
- Corazon
- Purpletrator
I'm on the list because while I know my alignment, it seems fairly unanimous that I've done little to demonstrate it. It just seems counter-intuitive to bring pressure on yourself like that for no real reason. They're just single digit contenders on my spreadsheet (on a scale from -100 being mafia, and 100 being town). I adjust scores accordingly after each incident I find interesting. It's more to keep track of my perspective over time, as I often forget the small stuff. It's really not worth talking about, and I don't want scum knowing my reads unless I'm acting on them. I appreciate the town read, though think it's something I'd do as scum too. No I haven't caught up with the thread. I'm still stuck on the same page. I think it's more important to attend to the here and now, and I'm losing focus again (tis 5am). Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 16:31 Spaghetticus wrote:Slam if you make a decent case on me I'll reconsider lynching you They all just read to me as town. It's not impossible for this attitude to be a ploy, but the far more likely scenario is that Spag is just not afraid of suspicions at all. Which means town. I also agree with this: Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 01:03 Spaghetticus wrote:On December 11 2013 00:55 Corazon wrote:
Plutarch is Marv because all Marv does is tunnel me whenever we are town together. You should just disregard everything he says about me tbh
HF is confirmation biased and refuses to push anyone else besides me. Play the game
Don't call Artanis scum for being right.
Be less bad please. How do you expect to convince anyone with this garbage? So we should take you word for it that not only are you trustworthy, you are able to discern smurfs at a glance, and you deem that this smurf is marv, and you also deem that Marv tunnels you, that he does so unfairly, and we should therefore disregard it? How can you not see that this is too much to swallow? HF is biased because he thinks you're scummy and doesn't change his vote with the wind? Artanis can't be scum because you agree with him on something? You're either making terrible arguments because you're terrible town, or you're just bullshitting to look like you're doing something. Can someone weigh in on how good Corazon is supposed to be? If he's at all capable at mafia I want him hung. The only worrying part is that there isn't much scumhunting in his filter. The previous post is probably the post closest to scumhunting, although it didn't come to any conclusion. Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 16:28 Spaghetticus wrote:
I'm surprised Plutarch wants to lynch Slam, but I happen to agree so...
Slam is still not talking sense. It looks to me that he's scaled back the persona just enough to give him a fighting chance of wifoming his eminent demise.
I wanted to find someone better to lynch and I wanted Slam to step up, but neither of these things have happened and I am not unhappy with this direction for day one. I was posturing with my pressure vote, but this doesn't rule out me actually voting him. Alakaslam isn't a terrible lynch, but it's definitely the easiest way out of D1. And it's a bit worrying that Spag's only committal to a lynch is someone like him. Spag, if you're town, you need to step up your scumhunting. You mentioned that you had several slight scumreads, but you haven't shared any of them yet (except Corazon, I'd assume). Otherwise you're looking townish, but that's a worrying part about you. Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:24 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 05:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Don't have much time now but I see support for a Spaghetti lynch and I'm happy to join in on that. Bandwagon powers activate!
##Unvote
##Vote Spaghetticus Lol. This is probably the most bandwagony vote so far. Catching up. He actively protests against a spag lynch, see's both of his scummy reads (artanis and purple) are on spag but thinks he's a good vote anyway? Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:41 Xatalos wrote:
I really don't like the Spag wagon. It has both Artanis and purple... And neither of them provided any reasoning for voting him. Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:45 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 05:42 Alakaslam wrote:On December 12 2013 05:41 Xatalos wrote:
I really don't like the Spag wagon. It has both Artanis and purple... And neither of them provided any reasoning for voting him. Bussing exists that's why I linked greyhound. That's true. Since it seems to be between Spag and VA, I agree that Spag is the better choice. ##Unvote
##Vote Spaghetticus I'm pretty sure he has never mentioned VA in any of his filter, has a town tell post on Spag, has scum reads on this wagon and still votes him? I don't buy it. ___________________________________________________________________________________ Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:40 LSB wrote:
Spaghetticus filter is just one giant mess of him trying to stir up activity, to me he is trying to show himself as being more active than he actually is.
Unfortunately between Spag and VA I am not confident about someone being scum, but Spag's filter suggests to me that he is more likely than not mafia
##Unvote
##Vote: Spaghetticus Has no activity other than sidesprang, which he meakly pushes when he's actually around. Really mediocre reasoning. Nothing other than this on spag. Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:45 LSB wrote:
I don't like the Spag wagon either, but apparently although many people thought he was scum no one jumped on the sidesprang wagon with me ________________________________________________________________________________________ don't shoot slam ____________________________________________________________________________________________ Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 13:11 kushm4sta wrote:On December 12 2013 13:07 JarJarDrinks wrote:On December 12 2013 10:59 kushm4sta wrote:On December 12 2013 06:23 JarJarDrinks wrote:On December 12 2013 03:54 JarJarDrinks wrote:On December 12 2013 03:47 kushm4sta wrote:
##unvote
##vote speghetti On December 12 2013 02:53 kushm4sta wrote:@rayn I'm back to townreading spghetti.That he has one of the longer filters in the game makes him lean town. Also I think it's not so much that he hasn't gotten into this game, but more like he thinks he is so awesome now for getting nk on night 1 that he doesn't even have to try. That is indicated by this quote: This isn't why I've scaled back, but it also doesn't help my motives that I was NKed early that game.
So that's why he is active but sucks hard compared to previous towngames. what happened? Kush, please answer this when you return. blame rayn Really? That's your answer? Reposting this again + Show Spoiler +On December 12 2013 06:35 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 06:23 JarJarDrinks wrote:On December 12 2013 03:54 JarJarDrinks wrote:On December 12 2013 03:47 kushm4sta wrote:
##unvote
##vote speghetti On December 12 2013 02:53 kushm4sta wrote:@rayn I'm back to townreading spghetti.That he has one of the longer filters in the game makes him lean town. Also I think it's not so much that he hasn't gotten into this game, but more like he thinks he is so awesome now for getting nk on night 1 that he doesn't even have to try. That is indicated by this quote: This isn't why I've scaled back, but it also doesn't help my motives that I was NKed early that game.
So that's why he is active but sucks hard compared to previous towngames. what happened? Kush, please answer this when you return. Just to add to this. I just reread your filter and I have no idea how you ended up w/ your vote on spag. Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 23:58 kushm4sta wrote:
that case was too fucked up for speghetti to be scum I think Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 00:02 kushm4sta wrote:
I think scum are going to make more obvious cases and attack generalized scumtells, like wishy washiness. Or they would go after players like alakaslam or purple (easy targets). Speghetti's case is just odd and I can't see scum ever making it. Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 01:48 kushm4sta wrote:
rayn i see what you are saying about spaghetti. i think he is just off this game. He already said he's not invested yet. My read is pretty thin so it's more of a hunch.
Anyone read corazon's last post? The ratio of size to content of that post is the highest in the game. Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 02:53 kushm4sta wrote:@rayn I'm back to townreading spghetti. That he has one of the longer filters in the game makes him lean town. Also I think it's not so much that he hasn't gotten into this game, but more like he thinks he is so awesome now for getting nk on night 1 that he doesn't even have to try. That is indicated by this quote: This isn't why I've scaled back, but it also doesn't help my motives that I was NKed early that game.
So that's why he is active but sucks hard compared to previous towngames. Why did you defend him so much and then vote him? So basically, not only did you never have spag as a scumread, but you defended him a whole bunch throughout the day. There's no way to interpret that other than: You voted for someone that you believed to be town. Do you deny this? i lynched him for information said spag was towny for most of the game, started leaning into him a bit more during the course of the day, lynched him for information but has provided no information after his lynch, really no reasoning for jumping on spag lynch, had him as town on town list post _______________________________________________________________________________ There are other people that voted him but they have legit reasoning. Plu, artanis.. kind of... but not really but i'm lazy so will do it later/you can do it for me. In conclusion, lots of people had no decent reasoning for a spag lynch. Xatalos had spag as a town read, Kush similarly did early too, LSB wasn't even wanting a spag lynch but didn't force another lynch into people. Cora is scummy in general and his reason for spag (who wasn't even in his list of scum) is "to get him off me". These are only votes on spag that I find suspicious, doesn't mean people who aren't on spag aren't either but for now I think the way the spag lynch went down that scum are most likely on it and these are the most viable candidates.
You make some good points about Corazon. It's definitely possible that he faked those notes.
On the topic of myself, you should read my filter more closely. I didn't like lynching Spag, but Plutarch/rayn persuaded me to consider Spag as a reasonably likely scum. In the end, it was between Spag and VA, and I felt Spag was the more likely scum (despite having scummy people on his wagon). I also did consider VA quite a bit, but didn't see what was so scummy about him. So I chose Spag.
Artanis's vote wasn't scummy to you? And mine was....? I don't really know what to say.
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On December 12 2013 20:28 Holyflare wrote:
Nah I was too lazy to read artanis' vote. You didn't have to vote either of those 2 especially as 2 of your scum reads were on spag. So why did you feel the need to vote him when you could have parked your vote on someone you actively found scummy?
I also found Spag reasonably scummy (no scumhunting, lots of fluff) at the end of the day. Why not vote for him? Doesn't make any sense to waste my vote. It wasn't even totally clear if VA or Spag was getting lynched at that point.
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On December 12 2013 20:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Like Artanis vote had zero reasoning behind it and he hadn't mentioned Spaghetticus EVER before that in his filter, besides the last post before the vote where he dropped some lazy ass "yeah spag is scummy" and left it there.
Yeah, I really fail to see how HF could come to the conclusion that Artanis's vote was one of the towniest...........
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On December 12 2013 20:37 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 20:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Holyflare why exactly do you think Artanis' vote on Spag had some reasoning?
That was definitely the scummiest vote on D1 of all of them. You really aren't reading are you?
What's there to read? You barely mentioned Spag and then eagerly locked your vote on him. Do you even have reasoning for your vote?
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On December 12 2013 20:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 20:40 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 20:37 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 12 2013 20:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Holyflare why exactly do you think Artanis' vote on Spag had some reasoning?
That was definitely the scummiest vote on D1 of all of them. You really aren't reading are you? What's there to read? You barely mentioned Spag and then eagerly locked your vote on him. Do you even have reasoning for your vote? Have you opened my filter or did you just presume what Rayn said was correct? I even quoted it again earlier.
You did mention a slight suspicion of Spag...
On December 11 2013 05:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I think Grack is too dumb to be scum. No sane scum would try to go after Rayn right now. He's wrong about Xatalos but I like the point on Spaghetticus in that he seems to try to look like he's contributing without contributing. In LXIII I instantly had a rock solid town read on him because he was too paranoid about everyone and mistrusting everything. The post Grack quoted of him shows a completely different approach to the game than he had in LXIII. Instead of being full of uncertainty and paranoia, he assaults Corazon and calls him bad rather than scum. He's being more carefree this game and overall less suspicious. Dun like it.
But that's it really. Then you talked about other stuff, disappeared, voted, and disappeared.
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On December 12 2013 20:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I couldn't care about the lynch on D1 past the first 24 hours because I was out all day. I saw one of the people I found suspicious being voted a lot when I checked in briefly so I switched my vote. I could've also just peaced out all day and leave my vote on Xatalos and make it meaningless. Do you think that would be less suspicious?
I think it's more suspicious to just throw some slight suspicion around and then bandwagoning when you see the chance.
But anyways, HF is right. This doesn't really achieve much (for now).
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It's still more likely for scum to vote poorly than for town.
What kind of a defense is that?
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I'm eager to see who Artanis thinks are scummy from that lynch.
It should be some pretty useful info.
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On December 12 2013 21:09 Holyflare wrote:
question goes to Xatalos too
Corazon. kush's vote wasn't good, but I can understand wanting to lynch someone other than Alakaslam for the information. purple's vote actually wasn't that bad, when I rethought the events. It seems reasonable to consolidate when your preferred lynch isn't happening.
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On December 12 2013 21:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 21:09 Holyflare wrote:On December 12 2013 21:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 12 2013 21:08 Holyflare wrote:
rayn, out of the people that I mentioned (ignoring artanis) who do you think is the scummiest person on my list? I don't know what's your list. well the people that I mentioned in my analysis post (not really a list i guess) I don't think anyone's vote is scummy besides Artanis & Xatalos and both of them are definitely not scum.
How is my vote scummy? We discussed earlier that Spag would be a decent lynch. Unfortunately I came back close to the deadline and Spag seemed like the reasonable option.
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On December 12 2013 21:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 21:12 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 21:09 Holyflare wrote:
question goes to Xatalos too Corazon. kush's vote wasn't good, but I can understand wanting to lynch someone other than Alakaslam for the information. purple's vote actually wasn't that bad, when I rethought the events. It seems reasonable to consolidate when your preferred lynch isn't happening. Are you honestly defending a "lynch for information"? Alakaslam wasn't even up for contention anymore if I'm reconstruing the situation properly. It was VA against Spaghetti. How did Spaghetti net us more 'information' than VA would?
That's true actually. I'll have to read what kush said about VA.
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Wait a second...
Kush actually wanted to lynch VA.
Why the heck did he end up lynching his townread Spag?
This definitely doesn't look good.
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On December 12 2013 21:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
In fact you defend Spag multiple times, your scumreads vote for him, and you end up voting for him.
It makes no sense to me.
It was a close call. I'd have preferred to lynch Artanis/Corazon/purple (maybe not purple since he just started to contribute), but as someone said, bussing was a possibility. I also didn't see why VA was scum, but Spag was not scumhunting at all (even when being lynched). There was an okay chance for him to slip scum. My townreads were also voting for him.
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On December 12 2013 21:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Holyflare i have read your post. I think what you are doing is over-analyzing: - Corazon clearly consolidated on a target he thought was scummier - purple clearly consolidated on a target he thought was scummier - LSB too I don't see nothing scummy in those three. - Xatalos consolidated on a target that all his scumreads voted for while defending him over the other target- Artanis threw a lazy ass vote and his reasoning he is giving now doesn't look like it's lining up with his actions (he is saying he had reasons to believe Spag was scum while he had clearly not read the thread (or is lying now) - had he said "i consolidated" it would have been okay, but he is trying to explain his actions to look like something they clearly were not) - Okay i agree, kush's vote is fucking fishy, that i missed. Clear enough HF?
Not really. I did mention that I disliked some of the wagon on Spag and that Spag wasn't my preferred lynch, but he also had an above average chance of flipping scum. While VA was pretty null all around.
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On December 12 2013 21:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 21:35 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 21:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Holyflare i have read your post. I think what you are doing is over-analyzing: - Corazon clearly consolidated on a target he thought was scummier - purple clearly consolidated on a target he thought was scummier - LSB too I don't see nothing scummy in those three. - Xatalos consolidated on a target that all his scumreads voted for while defending him over the other target- Artanis threw a lazy ass vote and his reasoning he is giving now doesn't look like it's lining up with his actions (he is saying he had reasons to believe Spag was scum while he had clearly not read the thread (or is lying now) - had he said "i consolidated" it would have been okay, but he is trying to explain his actions to look like something they clearly were not) - Okay i agree, kush's vote is fucking fishy, that i missed. Clear enough HF? Not really. I did mention that I disliked some of the wagon on Spag and that Spag wasn't my preferred lynch, but he also had an above average chance of flipping scum. While VA was pretty null all around. What. In case i have not misunderstood anything your other scumreads at least at that time were Corazon, Artanis and purple. All of them were voting for Spag, a guy you were not sure is scum. If that's not scummy to vote someone in that situation idk what is.
Bussing is always possible, since Spag was gathering votes fast.
And I'd rather not lynch someone who I don't find scummy and whose situation I hadn't had the time to fully comprehend (VA).
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On December 12 2013 21:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 21:43 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 21:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 12 2013 21:35 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 21:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Holyflare i have read your post. I think what you are doing is over-analyzing: - Corazon clearly consolidated on a target he thought was scummier - purple clearly consolidated on a target he thought was scummier - LSB too I don't see nothing scummy in those three. - Xatalos consolidated on a target that all his scumreads voted for while defending him over the other target- Artanis threw a lazy ass vote and his reasoning he is giving now doesn't look like it's lining up with his actions (he is saying he had reasons to believe Spag was scum while he had clearly not read the thread (or is lying now) - had he said "i consolidated" it would have been okay, but he is trying to explain his actions to look like something they clearly were not) - Okay i agree, kush's vote is fucking fishy, that i missed. Clear enough HF? Not really. I did mention that I disliked some of the wagon on Spag and that Spag wasn't my preferred lynch, but he also had an above average chance of flipping scum. While VA was pretty null all around. What. In case i have not misunderstood anything your other scumreads at least at that time were Corazon, Artanis and purple. All of them were voting for Spag, a guy you were not sure is scum. If that's not scummy to vote someone in that situation idk what is. Bussing is always possible, since Spag was gathering votes fast. And I'd rather not lynch someone who I don't find scummy and whose situation I hadn't had the time to fully comprehend (VA). Well why did you not try to get one of your scumreads lynched instead? Like Cora, who was voted by other people aswell. I told you to look elsewhere than Artanis for a moment and you agreed. You did nothing after that.
Unfortunately I had an exam after that Artanis debacle and the battery of my phone ran out. So I came home and it was basically Spag vs VA (like 30min to deadline). It would have been unrealistic to bring someone else to the competition (especially since all my townreads were already wanting to Spag). And probably harmful as well (distracting the discussion about Spag/VA). So I went for Spag despite not liking the wagon too much.
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On December 12 2013 21:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 21:50 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 21:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 12 2013 21:43 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 21:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 12 2013 21:35 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 21:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Holyflare i have read your post. I think what you are doing is over-analyzing: - Corazon clearly consolidated on a target he thought was scummier - purple clearly consolidated on a target he thought was scummier - LSB too I don't see nothing scummy in those three. - Xatalos consolidated on a target that all his scumreads voted for while defending him over the other target- Artanis threw a lazy ass vote and his reasoning he is giving now doesn't look like it's lining up with his actions (he is saying he had reasons to believe Spag was scum while he had clearly not read the thread (or is lying now) - had he said "i consolidated" it would have been okay, but he is trying to explain his actions to look like something they clearly were not) - Okay i agree, kush's vote is fucking fishy, that i missed. Clear enough HF? Not really. I did mention that I disliked some of the wagon on Spag and that Spag wasn't my preferred lynch, but he also had an above average chance of flipping scum. While VA was pretty null all around. What. In case i have not misunderstood anything your other scumreads at least at that time were Corazon, Artanis and purple. All of them were voting for Spag, a guy you were not sure is scum. If that's not scummy to vote someone in that situation idk what is. Bussing is always possible, since Spag was gathering votes fast. And I'd rather not lynch someone who I don't find scummy and whose situation I hadn't had the time to fully comprehend (VA). Well why did you not try to get one of your scumreads lynched instead? Like Cora, who was voted by other people aswell. I told you to look elsewhere than Artanis for a moment and you agreed. You did nothing after that. Unfortunately I had an exam after that Artanis debacle and the battery of my phone ran out. So I came home and it was basically Spag vs VA (like 30min to deadline). It would have been unrealistic to bring someone else to the competition (especially since all my townreads were already wanting to Spag). And probably harmful as well (distracting the discussion about Spag/VA). So I went for Spag despite not liking the wagon too much. Really? Because after this post: + Show Spoiler +On December 11 2013 00:02 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 23:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I suggest you both let each other do your own stuff and discuss other things as at least i think your rant is not going anywhere and other people are not feeling strongly in a way or another regarding your cases on each other.
purple, Grackster, Spaghetticus, Cora (when he comes back) -> far more better targets of discussion atm imo. Unfortunately they're all AFK / lurking. I'll need to look through their filters when I get back home though. How would you analyze their play so far? (besides the obvious lackluster LSB-vote with purple) ... i thought you would either: 1) Find a different approach into telling why you think Artanis is scum as noone bought your case 2) try to find a different lynch target Instead of doing so you sheeped my case on purple and did not try to do (1) or (2). I highly doubt that's a time issue as you have ~50 posts between that post and the lynch.
Actually I did convince you and Plutarch that Corazon would be a good lynch for D1, I think. Then I was AFK, came back, catched up, and chose Spag over VA close to the deadline.
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On December 12 2013 21:54 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 21:50 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 21:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 12 2013 21:43 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 21:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 12 2013 21:35 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 21:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Holyflare i have read your post. I think what you are doing is over-analyzing: - Corazon clearly consolidated on a target he thought was scummier - purple clearly consolidated on a target he thought was scummier - LSB too I don't see nothing scummy in those three. - Xatalos consolidated on a target that all his scumreads voted for while defending him over the other target- Artanis threw a lazy ass vote and his reasoning he is giving now doesn't look like it's lining up with his actions (he is saying he had reasons to believe Spag was scum while he had clearly not read the thread (or is lying now) - had he said "i consolidated" it would have been okay, but he is trying to explain his actions to look like something they clearly were not) - Okay i agree, kush's vote is fucking fishy, that i missed. Clear enough HF? Not really. I did mention that I disliked some of the wagon on Spag and that Spag wasn't my preferred lynch, but he also had an above average chance of flipping scum. While VA was pretty null all around. What. In case i have not misunderstood anything your other scumreads at least at that time were Corazon, Artanis and purple. All of them were voting for Spag, a guy you were not sure is scum. If that's not scummy to vote someone in that situation idk what is. Bussing is always possible, since Spag was gathering votes fast. And I'd rather not lynch someone who I don't find scummy and whose situation I hadn't had the time to fully comprehend (VA). Well why did you not try to get one of your scumreads lynched instead? Like Cora, who was voted by other people aswell. I told you to look elsewhere than Artanis for a moment and you agreed. You did nothing after that. Unfortunately I had an exam after that Artanis debacle and the battery of my phone ran out. So I came home and it was basically Spag vs VA (like 30min to deadline). It would have been unrealistic to bring someone else to the competition (especially since all my townreads were already wanting to Spag). And probably harmful as well (distracting the discussion about Spag/VA). So I went for Spag despite not liking the wagon too much. When was this artanis debacle exactly? If you had an exam and retuend with 30 mins to lynch then you can't possibly have had time to read up on a spag lynch (who was your town read) and change your mind on him enough to vote him over a NULL read VA.
Spag was no longer a town read when I went AFK. As you should be able to clearly see, I started doubting him when I looked at his lack of scumhunting and large amount of fluff. His posting went worse while I was AFK, too.
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On December 12 2013 22:10 kushm4sta wrote:
ya guys my vote is totally fishy right?
Could you maybe explain it?
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Gonna be AFK for some time. I'll be back before deadline though.
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On December 13 2013 01:54 Corazon wrote:
Why don't you actually read the bullshit that HF writes instead of just nodding your head and agreeing. Read it.
I haven't been able to follow the game as much and I am a little bit lost. Do you guys think I'm an asset to town with my usual play? If so, give me some breathing room to do my work so I can post in the thread without having 4 people breathing down my neck asking the same 4 questions.
If I said right now that HF was scum, you guys would say that I am OMGUSing. When you say that it's weird I call him confirmation-biased, you are putting me into a box.
If you think I am scum, vote me out. I won't be mad. If you don't think I am scum, lay off me and let me get back into this game. Sure I had a shitty start, but you guys won't even give me a chance to make up for it
........ Does Corazon even realize what he's saying?
1) He's been reading HF as a lying scum, but suddenly he's a confirmation biased townie
2) Oh wait, what actually matters isn't HF's alignment, but rather how others view Corazon's read on HF
3) Martyring
This is *almost* too dumb for scum... But no, it's just too unbelievable that he would be town.
On December 12 2013 21:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 21:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 12 2013 21:04 Holyflare wrote:On December 12 2013 21:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 12 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote:On December 12 2013 20:59 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 12 2013 20:57 Xatalos wrote:
It's still more likely for scum to vote poorly than for town.
What kind of a defense is that? Actually if we look at LXIII scum voted a lot better than town. Being right or wrong has no bearing on your alignment. you're wrong, the entire scum team could be found by analysing the BC wagon What I mean is that being correct doesn't mean you're more or less likely to be scum. It's more complicated then that. On December 12 2013 21:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Artanis who exaclty in your opinion voted poorly? Anyone joining in on the bandwagon despite having a townread on Spaghetti before the bandwagon began. I haven't gone back to check out who yet. i've done that all for you -.- Wasn't your list incomplete? You said so yourself that you hadn't checked it yet for some. On December 12 2013 21:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you haven't done that yet how can you say "a lot of people" as you seem to not know if there were a lot of people or not? When so many people voted for Spaghetti despite only one person voting for him early on and that being Alakaslam, you can be pretty sure about it. Wow, this is so scummy. Can anyone else see why?
I'd like to hear this one.
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On December 13 2013 05:29 Corazon wrote:My scumreads from the D1 votes: ( TL;DR is at bottom) HF- I've said a lot about him but he tunnels me for D1 and then throws his vote away on Slam. If he really believed that I was scum, why wouldn't he throw his vote away on me and not on Slam? Xatalos- I've talked about him to death as well, but I found some very interesting stuff in his filter: Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 20:48 Xatalos wrote:By the way, I see Spaghetticus mentioned as a lynch candidate every once in a while. I don't really agree. Just look at these posts: On December 10 2013 22:59 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Kush
Could you give insight into why you think the following people are green:
- Spaghetticus
- Xatalos
- Corazon
- Purpletrator
I'm on the list because while I know my alignment, it seems fairly unanimous that I've done little to demonstrate it. On December 11 2013 02:42 Spaghetticus wrote:On December 11 2013 02:28 Xatalos wrote:Spag, have you catched up with the thread? What about those slight scumreads that you mentioned? By the way, this post made me think you're more likely town: On December 10 2013 22:59 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Kush
Could you give insight into why you think the following people are green:
- Spaghetticus
- Xatalos
- Corazon
- Purpletrator
I'm on the list because while I know my alignment, it seems fairly unanimous that I've done little to demonstrate it. It just seems counter-intuitive to bring pressure on yourself like that for no real reason. They're just single digit contenders on my spreadsheet (on a scale from -100 being mafia, and 100 being town). I adjust scores accordingly after each incident I find interesting. It's more to keep track of my perspective over time, as I often forget the small stuff. It's really not worth talking about, and I don't want scum knowing my reads unless I'm acting on them. I appreciate the town read, though think it's something I'd do as scum too. No I haven't caught up with the thread. I'm still stuck on the same page. I think it's more important to attend to the here and now, and I'm losing focus again (tis 5am). On December 11 2013 16:31 Spaghetticus wrote:Slam if you make a decent case on me I'll reconsider lynching you They all just read to me as town. It's not impossible for this attitude to be a ploy, but the far more likely scenario is that Spag is just not afraid of suspicions at all. Which means town. I also agree with this: On December 11 2013 01:03 Spaghetticus wrote:On December 11 2013 00:55 Corazon wrote:
Plutarch is Marv because all Marv does is tunnel me whenever we are town together. You should just disregard everything he says about me tbh
HF is confirmation biased and refuses to push anyone else besides me. Play the game
Don't call Artanis scum for being right.
Be less bad please. How do you expect to convince anyone with this garbage? So we should take you word for it that not only are you trustworthy, you are able to discern smurfs at a glance, and you deem that this smurf is marv, and you also deem that Marv tunnels you, that he does so unfairly, and we should therefore disregard it? How can you not see that this is too much to swallow? HF is biased because he thinks you're scummy and doesn't change his vote with the wind? Artanis can't be scum because you agree with him on something? You're either making terrible arguments because you're terrible town, or you're just bullshitting to look like you're doing something. Can someone weigh in on how good Corazon is supposed to be? If he's at all capable at mafia I want him hung. The only worrying part is that there isn't much scumhunting in his filter. The previous post is probably the post closest to scumhunting, although it didn't come to any conclusion. On December 11 2013 16:28 Spaghetticus wrote:
I'm surprised Plutarch wants to lynch Slam, but I happen to agree so...
Slam is still not talking sense. It looks to me that he's scaled back the persona just enough to give him a fighting chance of wifoming his eminent demise.
I wanted to find someone better to lynch and I wanted Slam to step up, but neither of these things have happened and I am not unhappy with this direction for day one. I was posturing with my pressure vote, but this doesn't rule out me actually voting him. Alakaslam isn't a terrible lynch, but it's definitely the easiest way out of D1. And it's a bit worrying that Spag's only committal to a lynch is someone like him. Spag, if you're town, you need to step up your scumhunting. You mentioned that you had several slight scumreads, but you haven't shared any of them yet (except Corazon, I'd assume). Otherwise you're looking townish, but that's a worrying part about you. He spent all of this time "defending Spag" and at the same time tells him to play better. He is keeping is options open and is trying to defend Spag without looking like it. Then he goes from this: Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:41 Xatalos wrote:
I really don't like the Spag wagon. It has both Artanis and purple... And neither of them provided any reasoning for voting him. To this: Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:45 Xatalos wrote:On December 12 2013 05:42 Alakaslam wrote:On December 12 2013 05:41 Xatalos wrote:
I really don't like the Spag wagon. It has both Artanis and purple... And neither of them provided any reasoning for voting him. Bussing exists that's why I linked greyhound. That's true. Since it seems to be between Spag and VA, I agree that Spag is the better choice. ##Unvote
##Vote Spaghetticus In four minutes. He clearly did not believe that Spag was scum, but he voted for him? Why would you vote for someone that you think is town and that you just defended? Artanis also makes a good point when he says that Xatalos voted with 2 people he thought was scum. His words and actions aren't matching, which points to the fact that he doesn't care who is lynched, as long as it isn't him. Grackaroni-Grackaroni is someone who has gone under the radar a bit (besides Rayn OMGUSing him). He is in the same boat as Vayne where they haven't contributed to the discussion and they both haven't justified their votes. His first vote on Kush is trolly, his second vote on Rayn is useless because he only thinks Rayn's vote is dumb and doesn't explain why it makes Rayn scum. Then, he starts to tunnel Slam by voting for him until he switches to Vayne: Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 03:24 Grackaroni wrote:
Geez Vayne actually slipped lol. Un-lynchable scum record goodbye I will take pleasure in this.
##Unvote: Alakaslam
##Vote: VayneAuthority
I don't think it prevents Slam from being scum. The problem is that he never explains why he thinks Slam is scum. He just votes VA but keeps his options open. In my opinion, it is because he wants to hammer Vayne but wants an escape just in case the lynch goes south. All of this along with his lack of contribution make me really suspicious of him. purpletrator-Purple's play has been ridiculously scummy so far. First off, his scumhunting has been non-existent. He's just shitted up the thread with a whole bunch of nonsense. As said before, his overreaction to LSB's criticism was really suspicious and not very justifiable. Then, there is his justification for his vote: Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:39 purpletrator wrote:On December 12 2013 03:50 purpletrator wrote:On December 12 2013 03:48 Plutarch wrote:
can you two drop it please. I could lynch Spag or cora. Cora saying he has notes he could post and then not posting them bothers me. This is where I'm at right now. Heavily swayed by On December 12 2013 03:39 Plutarch wrote:
I don't think Vsynr contradicting himself like that means he has to be scum. I think it is a null tell.
I was hoping some of those who had not commented yet on spag would step up in my absence, but that hasn't really happened.
I still think Spag is going to flip scum. And I am surprised that rayn unvoted to be honest.
When someone does nothing and does not even try to look for scum despite being active that person is likely to be scum. Even though spag says he always starts slow his previous two town games provide direct counter examples to this.
Then when up against it for the lynch he does not provide reads aside from calling kush town. I don't know about you guys but if I was getting lynched as town then I would be desperate to provide as much information to the thread as possible to work off after I flip.
Did this happen? no. He in fact provided zero info to the thread and then left as soon as thread sentiment changed.
Spag is Scum.
Please lynch spag. He completely sheeps Plutarch here and basically says "it's Plutarch's fault my vote is on Spag". He is both acknowledging his lack of scumhunting the fact that he is sheeping. He is trying to divert responsibility for the Spag lynch away from him. From what I have concluded, although Xatalos is the person I would most want to lynch D2, I'm ok with lynching any of these four. TL;DRHF-Throws his vote away after tunneling me, why didn't he vote for me, his top scumread? Xatalos- Stuff I've said before + voted for someone he thought was town Grack- Lack of contribution, tunneling Slam with no explanation and then switching to Vayne but keeping his options open. Purple- Lack of contribution + sheeping Plutarch
That's just a lie. I clearly didn't have Spag in my townreads when I voted for him. I defended him earlier, but was persuaded that his "towntells" weren't hard to fake. And I agreed that he had a good chance of flipping scum hours before the lynch.
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On December 13 2013 05:45 Corazon wrote:
You were persuaded way too easily by Slam. You went from thinking the wagon was bad to joining the wagon just because Slam made a WIFOM statement on the possibility of bussing.
If you didn't think Spag was town, why didn't you push his lynch? Why did you make that big post defending him?
I've already explained all of this, but clearly you don't read before making cases.
That's to be expected though.
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On December 13 2013 05:55 Corazon wrote:
@Xatalos
Your explanation for saying that Spag was town and then proceeding to vote him was "I never thought Spag was town"
Then what was the point of that long post to defend Spag?
I had a slight town read on him during earlier D1. Then I realized that he had no scumhunting and tons of useless fluff. I never said I never saw him as townish.
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On December 13 2013 05:58 Corazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 05:58 Xatalos wrote:On December 13 2013 05:55 Corazon wrote:
@Xatalos
Your explanation for saying that Spag was town and then proceeding to vote him was "I never thought Spag was town"
Then what was the point of that long post to defend Spag? I had a slight town read on him during earlier D1. Then I realized that he had no scumhunting and tons of useless fluff. I never said I never saw him as townish. Then why didn't you communicate this opinion? Why didn't you push for his lynch?
On December 11 2013 22:37 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 22:31 Plutarch wrote:
Xatalos are you around? what do you think of a spag lynch now? On my phone, but yes. I'm not sure because I got a townish vibe from those posts I mentioned earlier. His lack of scumhunting really does make him look more scummy, though. It'd be preferable to Alakaslam, and since it looks like Artanis is not happening today, or probably purple/Cora, it seems like a decent choice in this situation.
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............What are these kills.
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On December 13 2013 05:59 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Xatalos why didn't you comment on Rayn's post that you quoted earlier? Why did you not bring it up until I asked about it myself?
I saw Alakaslam's post mentioning it and got curious. It passed my radar at the time it was posted.
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On December 13 2013 06:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
##Vote Xatalos
Choo choo!
I guess everyone can see that Artanis is scum. Corazon as well.
##Vote Artanis[Xp]
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................ Actually, that's true. Nobody else could possibly Vigi HF.
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I'll have to rethink some things since Corazon is Vigi.
Artanis is scummy on his own merits though. I guess he just buddied with Corazon and wasn't scum together with him.
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I do have to agree on the point that it's not right to insult mentally ill, but it's hardly grounds for a policy lynch.
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On December 13 2013 06:21 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 06:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 13 2013 06:19 LSB wrote:
Can the vig claim? Can you read? Oh I see Well that solves the Corazon issue. ##Vote: Sidesprang
Do you have anything else in your mind besides tunneling sidesprang?
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That NK part is a bit far-fetched, but it's true that VA has been going for "easy lynches".
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Good night, I'll have to rethink several players after these flips.
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On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote:
Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia
VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
Not necessarily. Scum can make suspicious votes even if it's town vs town. Naturally the suspicious votes are even more suspicious if VA is scum.
On December 13 2013 21:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Plutarch, Rayn, Kush, and anyone else here please comment on my points regarding Xatalos. I don't like that he's not being discussed at all. Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure.
-Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him.
-First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread.
-Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone.
-Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Could we please lynch this scum already?
Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is.
These are pretty much non-points / things I have already explained (and Artanis clearly hasn't read). Some of the points are even townie for me (overall aggression, generating discussion, pressuring a lot). That's how I've basically always started the game as town (and recently as scum too -> pretty much null). Really quite bad reasons for wanting to lynch me #1. Incidentally, this "case" is a decent additional reason to lynch Artanis.
How many would be up for lynching Artanis today? rayn, you at least mentioned that Artanis was scummy N1. Please, get off Plutarch and lynch a much scummier player (Plutarch isn't even scummy, and it puzzles me that you're going for him).
On December 13 2013 05:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet!
bumatlarge the Civilian has been eaten by Sebastian!
Holyflare's death doesn't give that much new info in itself, but the more important part is that it confirms Corazon as a (misguided) Vigi. Regardless, he's town, which makes Artanis look (very slightly) better and probably me/Plutarch worse. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. (as a sidenote, from the shock that this Vigi shot caused, I probably won't be trusting Vigilantes to make sensible choices in the future).
bum's death is a big mystery to me, since he did pretty much nothing all game. Does anyone have an idea about why the SK would shoot him? Maybe he thought bum was scum? In that case there might be some merit in going through who suspected bum.
- - - -
Other players who would be decent lynches are purple and LSB.
- purple's vote wasn't that scummy, but he's been lurking and posting useless one-liners all game... and now we also know that Corazon is town, which makes purple slightly more likely scum
- LSB has been throwing his vote around meaninglessly all game... hasn't truly pushed anything, just bandwagoned or thrown his vote here or there... and his Spag vote was actually about as scummy as that of Artanis
VA, kush, Grackaroni and sidesprang aren't looking good either. VA has been just targeting the easiest lynches, kush happily lynched his own townread, Grackaroni's vote was pretty scummy too and sidesprang has barely posted enough to avoid being policy lynched.
I think we should start from Artanis and continue from there. There are a lot of scummy players, but it should get easier when one is flipped.
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On December 14 2013 03:10 Corazon wrote:
Yeah I'm done playing this game. HF was scummy and all you idiots calling me out for shooting him don't understand what you are talking about.
I'm just gonna vote Xatalos until he dies and then Plutarch. Later.
I think it's you who doesn't understand what he's talking about.... Considering that HF and Plutarch have been the towniest players and I'm reasonably high as well.
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On December 14 2013 03:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I could get behind Artanis lynch. He says i have some information i should not have, does not explain it at all, does not address my case on Plutarch at all, but instead accuses me because of it (i don't even know what the hell). Definitely a good lynch. Then we can lynch Plutarch who makes 2 different reads from same posts.
You don't think town can make different reads from the same (or actually slightly different) materials at different points in time? There's new indirect information, the level of analysis can be different etc. Something like that doesn't override that Plutarch has been scumhunting whenever he's been posting.
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On December 14 2013 03:13 LSB wrote:
First off, why are we still discussing Corazon at this point? Until someone countercalims vig he is confirmed town.
I won't be on later tonight, but I will be on right now. But can people stop blaming me for not going after bad lynches? There is a reason why I don't want to lynch Corazon, VA (and to some degree spag).
Your lynch of preference is sidesprang? Why is he the top #1 scummy player atm? You never even really pushed his lynch.
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On December 14 2013 03:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 03:18 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 03:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I could get behind Artanis lynch. He says i have some information i should not have, does not explain it at all, does not address my case on Plutarch at all, but instead accuses me because of it (i don't even know what the hell). Definitely a good lynch. Then we can lynch Plutarch who makes 2 different reads from same posts. You don't think town can make different reads from the same (or actually slightly different) materials at different points in time? There's new indirect information, the level of analysis can be different etc. Something like that doesn't override that Plutarch has been scumhunting whenever he's been posting. I asked Plutarch about those exact posts and he said it was not a big deal. But when LSB consolidates on one of the two top targets it suddenly somehow becomes suspicious? LSB makes 4 "bandwagony" votes, not suspicious -> LSB consolidates on current lynch targets suddenly all of his votes become suspicious. That's really bad. If LSB had not consolidated he would have been called out for not caring about the lynch.
One misstep in a player's logical thought process doesn't yet make scum. Maybe I could understand putting him at null, but #1 scumread? That's way too much for one detail in his large filter.
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On December 14 2013 03:22 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 03:21 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 03:13 LSB wrote:
First off, why are we still discussing Corazon at this point? Until someone countercalims vig he is confirmed town.
I won't be on later tonight, but I will be on right now. But can people stop blaming me for not going after bad lynches? There is a reason why I don't want to lynch Corazon, VA (and to some degree spag). Your lynch of preference is sidesprang? Why is he the top #1 scummy player atm? You never even really pushed his lynch. I thought you read my filter
This is all all about sidesprang....
On December 10 2013 13:35 LSB wrote:General comments: purpletrator is being incredibly defensive and showing off as paranoid to me xatalos has been powerplaying quite hard day 1, and typically lynches of major town voices go badly day 1. Push PostPersonally I think the most important post so far is this Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 10:10 Holyflare wrote:On December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote:
Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example.
--------
About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town.
He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me".
And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town.
I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at.
-------
@Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating.
I really really do not like this post as an entry post: A) Sheeps everthing I have mentioned on Cora. B) Uses a big chunk of his entry post saying why cora is displaying mafia associated traits but won't vote him yet? C) Mentions Xatalos in a completely non-inquisitive manner, no justification on a read based on Xan's posts or anything. Sidesprang, what do you think of Xatalos so far? He has been pressured quite hard this game, were his responses more town alignment indicative to you? I've already mentioned how I felt the initial read of Cora was incredibly forced. This can easily attributed to Holyflare's overeagerness. What is important to keep an eye out are the bandwagoners. Or the "bait and switch" approach. Make a flimsy case, wait for someone to quickly jump on your plan, and finger the bandwagoner as mafia. The logic behind this is that very few townies would be willing to push a bad lynch, but a mafia would be willing to push many lynches on greenies regarless of the contents of the lynches. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 11:13 sidesprang wrote:On December 10 2013 10:10 Holyflare wrote:On December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote:
Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example.
--------
About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town.
He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me".
And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town.
I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at.
-------
@Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating.
I really really do not like this post as an entry post: A) Sheeps everthing I have mentioned on Cora. B) Uses a big chunk of his entry post saying why cora is displaying mafia associated traits but won't vote him yet? C) Mentions Xatalos in a completely non-inquisitive manner, no justification on a read based on Xan's posts or anything. Sidesprang, what do you think of Xatalos so far? He has been pressured quite hard this game, were his responses more town alignment indicative to you? A) I might be blind but I dont see you mention everything I mentioned, but if I still find it scummy would I not be allowed to say it ? B) I don't see a reason for voting anyone yet, he is deffo looking scummy but It's still early in D1. C) The point about Xatalos was a plea to the Town that people should rather focus on more quality over quantity when posting. Can I not do that in a non-inquisitive manner? I said I just used him as an example. About Xatalos, I deffo dont like his opening. He goes after Cora and Kush which I think its fine, but also goes after Slam and Spag which had barely spoken and had not said anything scummy. So Artanis evaluation of him fits nicely, tho I wont say he is mafia because of it. He might just do it to start discussion, as he says he likes all the action happning here. I dont and will keep an eye on him. And his defence was kinda just meta, "saying that is how he plays", and I dont know the guy. Might be true might not be. I dont like meta defences and its another thing that will make me keep an eye on him. Indeed he continues his bandwagony attitude. Although there have only been two posts from him, bait and switch has a 100% success rate (n = 1), and I might as well go with it. I am seriously concerned about his willingness to support lynches without contributing much personal insights. ##unvote##Vote; sidesprang
On December 11 2013 12:04 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 12:02 bumatlarge wrote:
The sidesprang case is the bait and switch one right? He isn't too active, which is usually what you do if someone accuses you and they are right. He doesn't have alot to go on. LETS GET THIS WAGON GOING GAIS ##unvote##Vote: Sidesprang
On December 13 2013 06:21 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 06:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 13 2013 06:19 LSB wrote:
Can the vig claim? Can you read? Oh I see Well that solves the Corazon issue. ##Vote: Sidesprang
You only mention the "bait and switch" at the start of the game and nothing after that....
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On December 14 2013 03:35 LSB wrote:
Your point is?
You really just keep tunneling sidesprang for that one suspicious move at the very start of the game?
Don't you have anything to add about him? Or why don't you even TRY convincing anyone that he should be lynched?
Maybe you're just scum and you don't really care.
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Yeah, that has to be it. I can't comprehend LSB playing like this as town.
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On December 14 2013 03:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 03:38 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah, that has to be it. I can't comprehend LSB playing like this as town. LSB just played a PYP game where he had literally no reads and all he talked about was mass claim until he got lynched. He was town, so what he has done in this game is 100x more than his 10 page filter in PYP.
...... Why does he even bother playing if he doesn't care at all?
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On December 14 2013 03:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 03:41 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 03:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 14 2013 03:38 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah, that has to be it. I can't comprehend LSB playing like this as town. LSB just played a PYP game where he had literally no reads and all he talked about was mass claim until he got lynched. He was town, so what he has done in this game is 100x more than his 10 page filter in PYP. ...... Why does he even bother playing if he doesn't care at all? I mean, he had reads, but he never explained any of them. He was even right on some flipped scummers but he never really explained anything he did.
That seems like an ideal meta for scum play though. If he plays so scummy as town, he can just play his town meta as scum and be good to go.
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On December 14 2013 03:39 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 03:38 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah, that has to be it. I can't comprehend LSB playing like this as town. looks like a bus
So you really think I'm scum? Out of all the people?
Could you finally explain your shady Spag vote?
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On December 14 2013 03:48 LSB wrote:##PushpostWhy you should vote purpletratorPurpletrator really only has two important posts in his filter that means something. One is on me, the other is on Corazon. 1) Winner of the most rediculous reaction award. Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:33 purpletrator wrote:On December 10 2013 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2013 07:18 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 07:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2013 06:44 purpletrator wrote:On December 10 2013 06:43 LSB wrote:
##Vote: purpletrator
Scum are mafia pretending to be someone else.
Smurfs are players pretending to be someone else.
Smurfs = Mafia.
Flawless mafia. Lynch all Smurfs You could at least start in alphabetical order. What if I reveal my identity? Would you change your vote to a different smurf? Worst post in thread. ##Vote: purpletrator Kusplain? Hello sir, I promise not to get mad at you this game If purpletrator can reasonably explain what he is going to achieve with that post i'm going to unvote. Now i gotta sleep! cya tomorrow. Please don't be useless Alakaslam ok? You mean to tell me you have no concern over the erroneous logic LSB used to vote me? You honestly think my response is worse than "smurfs=mafia"? To actually answer your question, I'm wondering why LSB is wasting my time and wanted to see if he's actually trying to get a response or just trolling. When he ignored my response I chalked it up to 'just trolling'. Then you called me out, he noticed my response and now wants to fish for my identity. Now it looks scummy. On December 10 2013 07:18 LSB wrote:Missed this post On December 10 2013 06:44 purpletrator wrote:On December 10 2013 06:43 LSB wrote:
##Vote: purpletrator
Scum are mafia pretending to be someone else.
Smurfs are players pretending to be someone else.
Smurfs = Mafia.
Flawless mafia. Lynch all Smurfs You could at least start in alphabetical order. What if I reveal my identity? Would you change your vote to a different smurf? Ya, sure. Reveal please! It was a hypothetical. I'm not revealing my identity. Good to know you dont give a shit about the lynch. ##Vote: LSB In response to some spam purpletraitor suddenly pulls out a full blow case and goes all defensive. Someone is quite edgy and quick to try to convince everyone that he is town. Paranoia is a good indicator of mafia alignment to me 2) Corazon Lynch This is probably the most arbitrary vote I have seen for quite a while. Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 03:03 purpletrator wrote:On December 12 2013 03:00 Corazon wrote:
To whomever asked: yes I have notes until page 21. I've been too busy to take notes since then. I will probably pick up with the notes starting D2. Do you want to see them? There are only 3 or so major points in them. One on Spag, one on purple, and one on Vayne It was me, and it was because you'd mentioned it then said you'd make a case on Xata: On December 10 2013 09:55 Corazon wrote:
I caught up to the thread and took notes. I must go for an hour and then I will be back with Xatalos case. I find it incredibly odd that Xata isnt in your notes Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 03:16 purpletrator wrote:
Vote: Corazon
This notes debacle is alarming He votes Corazon because he didn't take notes on Xata? I want you to take a step back and think about how ridiculous this is. Not only was there no mention about not taking notes on Xata, in addition if you were taking notes of the first few pages it would be impossible to ignore Xata. This seems like a standardard bandwagon vote although not as explicitly bandwagony as Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 05:39 purpletrator wrote:On December 12 2013 03:50 purpletrator wrote:On December 12 2013 03:48 Plutarch wrote:
can you two drop it please. I could lynch Spag or cora. Cora saying he has notes he could post and then not posting them bothers me. This is where I'm at right now. Heavily swayed by On December 12 2013 03:39 Plutarch wrote:
I don't think Vsynr contradicting himself like that means he has to be scum. I think it is a null tell.
I was hoping some of those who had not commented yet on spag would step up in my absence, but that hasn't really happened.
I still think Spag is going to flip scum. And I am surprised that rayn unvoted to be honest.
When someone does nothing and does not even try to look for scum despite being active that person is likely to be scum. Even though spag says he always starts slow his previous two town games provide direct counter examples to this.
Then when up against it for the lynch he does not provide reads aside from calling kush town. I don't know about you guys but if I was getting lynched as town then I would be desperate to provide as much information to the thread as possible to work off after I flip.
Did this happen? no. He in fact provided zero info to the thread and then left as soon as thread sentiment changed.
Spag is Scum.
Please lynch spag. purpletrator demonstrates he is willing to lynch someone who is under heavy suspicion for little or no foresight. Compare this to his analysis here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436388¤tpage=57#1132 Purpletrator is not incapable of making good analysis. ##VOTE: purpletrator BONUS: Something funny from the other smurf Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:19 Plutarch wrote:
I appreciate a refresher in the reasoning behind policy lynching lurkers corazon, but that doesn't really add anything valuable to the conversation that anyone here wouldn't know already does it?
For the record, I always prefer lynching scum to lynching coin-flips, thus I will be hard on people who get in my way when I try to do so. And then suddenly a few posts later Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 13:24 Plutarch wrote:On December 10 2013 13:19 Corazon wrote:On December 10 2013 13:12 Plutarch wrote:On December 10 2013 13:02 Corazon wrote:@Plutarch: Jumping around your vote can be a town thing if you are justifying your votes and your reads, but Xatalos is just jumping around and harping on people for nothing and with no purpose other than to look like he is scum hunting. Case in point: On December 10 2013 08:19 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2013 07:18 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 07:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2013 06:44 purpletrator wrote:
[quote]
You could at least start in alphabetical order. What if I reveal my identity? Would you change your vote to a different smurf? Worst post in thread. ##Vote: purpletrator Kusplain? Hello sir, I promise not to get mad at you this game If purpletrator can reasonably explain what he is going to achieve with that post i'm going to unvote. Now i gotta sleep! cya tomorrow. Please don't be useless Alakaslam ok? By the way... rayn, what are you doing? I thought you were going to be one of the most contributive players here. I hope it'll get better from here... Otherwise you're probably scum. What is the point of this post? Does he think Rayn is scummy because he sleeps? There's no purpose to this post. It's not scum hunting. It's calling out Rayn for sleeping. How does this help us find scum? Also, there is the point that townies believe in their reads and scum don't. If Xatalos believed I was scum, wouldn't he continue to pressure me and push for my lynch? Why does he insist on attacking kush for being kush and attacking Rayn for sleeping? Do you see any purpose to these posts? Is Xatalos trying to find a lynch? In my opinion, he isn't and that's why I voted for him. I viewed those things as throwaway comments that people often make day one in order to set expectations for behavior and contribution. I think you are reading far too much into early day one pressure votes. If the game had progressed further then of course I would expect a more concerted push behind a vote but in the context of the game state as it stands I don't believe his votes have been particularly scummy. In fact I think he is more likely to be town than scum at this point. I am just trying to determine if you actually believe in the reasoning behind your xatalos push or if this is simply posturing, because at this point the case is not very strong at all. I would like to bring something up from earlier though. If you're activity was going to be fine regardless why did you feel the need to post that you were going to be inactive? And more importantly why did you not post this before roles had been sent out? Please tell me where I explicitly said I was going to be "inactive" Don't be bad please. We both know what I meant by that. What is the purpose of stating one stupidly semantic sentence in response to a constructive post? ##vote: corazonI expect better from you. LOL. Oh well, values were nice but once I am pissed lets throw them away PS: If you go after sidesprang I'd be willing to bandwagon
Why have you been voting sidesprang all game if purple is your top scumread?
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On December 14 2013 03:51 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 03:50 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 03:48 LSB wrote:##PushpostWhy you should vote purpletratorPurpletrator really only has two important posts in his filter that means something. One is on me, the other is on Corazon. 1) Winner of the most rediculous reaction award. On December 10 2013 07:33 purpletrator wrote:On December 10 2013 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2013 07:18 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2013 07:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2013 06:44 purpletrator wrote:On December 10 2013 06:43 LSB wrote:
##Vote: purpletrator
Scum are mafia pretending to be someone else.
Smurfs are players pretending to be someone else.
Smurfs = Mafia.
Flawless mafia. Lynch all Smurfs You could at least start in alphabetical order. What if I reveal my identity? Would you change your vote to a different smurf? Worst post in thread. ##Vote: purpletrator Kusplain? Hello sir, I promise not to get mad at you this game If purpletrator can reasonably explain what he is going to achieve with that post i'm going to unvote. Now i gotta sleep! cya tomorrow. Please don't be useless Alakaslam ok? You mean to tell me you have no concern over the erroneous logic LSB used to vote me? You honestly think my response is worse than "smurfs=mafia"? To actually answer your question, I'm wondering why LSB is wasting my time and wanted to see if he's actually trying to get a response or just trolling. When he ignored my response I chalked it up to 'just trolling'. Then you called me out, he noticed my response and now wants to fish for my identity. Now it looks scummy. On December 10 2013 07:18 LSB wrote:Missed this post On December 10 2013 06:44 purpletrator wrote:On December 10 2013 06:43 LSB wrote:
##Vote: purpletrator
Scum are mafia pretending to be someone else.
Smurfs are players pretending to be someone else.
Smurfs = Mafia.
Flawless mafia. Lynch all Smurfs You could at least start in alphabetical order. What if I reveal my identity? Would you change your vote to a different smurf? Ya, sure. Reveal please! It was a hypothetical. I'm not revealing my identity. Good to know you dont give a shit about the lynch. ##Vote: LSB In response to some spam purpletraitor suddenly pulls out a full blow case and goes all defensive. Someone is quite edgy and quick to try to convince everyone that he is town. Paranoia is a good indicator of mafia alignment to me 2) Corazon Lynch This is probably the most arbitrary vote I have seen for quite a while. On December 12 2013 03:03 purpletrator wrote:On December 12 2013 03:00 Corazon wrote:
To whomever asked: yes I have notes until page 21. I've been too busy to take notes since then. I will probably pick up with the notes starting D2. Do you want to see them? There are only 3 or so major points in them. One on Spag, one on purple, and one on Vayne It was me, and it was because you'd mentioned it then said you'd make a case on Xata: On December 10 2013 09:55 Corazon wrote:
I caught up to the thread and took notes. I must go for an hour and then I will be back with Xatalos case. I find it incredibly odd that Xata isnt in your notes On December 12 2013 03:16 purpletrator wrote:
Vote: Corazon
This notes debacle is alarming He votes Corazon because he didn't take notes on Xata? I want you to take a step back and think about how ridiculous this is. Not only was there no mention about not taking notes on Xata, in addition if you were taking notes of the first few pages it would be impossible to ignore Xata. This seems like a standardard bandwagon vote although not as explicitly bandwagony as On December 12 2013 05:39 purpletrator wrote:On December 12 2013 03:50 purpletrator wrote:On December 12 2013 03:48 Plutarch wrote:
can you two drop it please. I could lynch Spag or cora. Cora saying he has notes he could post and then not posting them bothers me. This is where I'm at right now. Heavily swayed by On December 12 2013 03:39 Plutarch wrote:
I don't think Vsynr contradicting himself like that means he has to be scum. I think it is a null tell.
I was hoping some of those who had not commented yet on spag would step up in my absence, but that hasn't really happened.
I still think Spag is going to flip scum. And I am surprised that rayn unvoted to be honest.
When someone does nothing and does not even try to look for scum despite being active that person is likely to be scum. Even though spag says he always starts slow his previous two town games provide direct counter examples to this.
Then when up against it for the lynch he does not provide reads aside from calling kush town. I don't know about you guys but if I was getting lynched as town then I would be desperate to provide as much information to the thread as possible to work off after I flip.
Did this happen? no. He in fact provided zero info to the thread and then left as soon as thread sentiment changed.
Spag is Scum.
Please lynch spag. purpletrator demonstrates he is willing to lynch someone who is under heavy suspicion for little or no foresight. Compare this to his analysis here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436388¤tpage=57#1132 Purpletrator is not incapable of making good analysis. ##VOTE: purpletrator BONUS: Something funny from the other smurf On December 10 2013 06:19 Plutarch wrote:
I appreciate a refresher in the reasoning behind policy lynching lurkers corazon, but that doesn't really add anything valuable to the conversation that anyone here wouldn't know already does it?
For the record, I always prefer lynching scum to lynching coin-flips, thus I will be hard on people who get in my way when I try to do so. And then suddenly a few posts later On December 10 2013 13:24 Plutarch wrote:On December 10 2013 13:19 Corazon wrote:On December 10 2013 13:12 Plutarch wrote:On December 10 2013 13:02 Corazon wrote:@Plutarch: Jumping around your vote can be a town thing if you are justifying your votes and your reads, but Xatalos is just jumping around and harping on people for nothing and with no purpose other than to look like he is scum hunting. Case in point: On December 10 2013 08:19 Xatalos wrote:On December 10 2013 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2013 07:18 Alakaslam wrote:
[quote]
Kusplain?
Hello sir, I promise not to get mad at you this game If purpletrator can reasonably explain what he is going to achieve with that post i'm going to unvote. Now i gotta sleep! cya tomorrow. Please don't be useless Alakaslam ok? By the way... rayn, what are you doing? I thought you were going to be one of the most contributive players here. I hope it'll get better from here... Otherwise you're probably scum. What is the point of this post? Does he think Rayn is scummy because he sleeps? There's no purpose to this post. It's not scum hunting. It's calling out Rayn for sleeping. How does this help us find scum? Also, there is the point that townies believe in their reads and scum don't. If Xatalos believed I was scum, wouldn't he continue to pressure me and push for my lynch? Why does he insist on attacking kush for being kush and attacking Rayn for sleeping? Do you see any purpose to these posts? Is Xatalos trying to find a lynch? In my opinion, he isn't and that's why I voted for him. I viewed those things as throwaway comments that people often make day one in order to set expectations for behavior and contribution. I think you are reading far too much into early day one pressure votes. If the game had progressed further then of course I would expect a more concerted push behind a vote but in the context of the game state as it stands I don't believe his votes have been particularly scummy. In fact I think he is more likely to be town than scum at this point. I am just trying to determine if you actually believe in the reasoning behind your xatalos push or if this is simply posturing, because at this point the case is not very strong at all. I would like to bring something up from earlier though. If you're activity was going to be fine regardless why did you feel the need to post that you were going to be inactive? And more importantly why did you not post this before roles had been sent out? Please tell me where I explicitly said I was going to be "inactive" Don't be bad please. We both know what I meant by that. What is the purpose of stating one stupidly semantic sentence in response to a constructive post? ##vote: corazonI expect better from you. LOL. Oh well, values were nice but once I am pissed lets throw them away PS: If you go after sidesprang I'd be willing to bandwagon Why have you been voting sidesprang all game if purple is your top scumread? WTF is this bullshit about "Top scumreads"? There are people I think are scum, and there are people I think are town. And there are people I don't know. I vote for scum and I don't vote for town
That's a good pushpost by the way. purple has been overly defensive and hasn't brought any actually useful insight into the game.
I'm actually considering lynching purple instead of Artanis.
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On December 14 2013 03:57 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 03:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 14 2013 03:49 LSB wrote:On December 14 2013 03:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 14 2013 03:38 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah, that has to be it. I can't comprehend LSB playing like this as town. LSB just played a PYP game where he had literally no reads and all he talked about was mass claim until he got lynched. He was town, so what he has done in this game is 100x more than his 10 page filter in PYP. If JB flips scum I want you to post "LSB just played a PYP game where he literally fingered da mafia and until he got lynched by da mafia" I'm sorry i misrepresented your play. That was not intentional. I didn't mean to say you were wrong, i meant to say you didn't really explain your reads at all and in my opinion your play in this game has been definitely more pro-town than it was in PYP game. Being right =/= good play if noone listens to you. Lolol I know. That's why I prefer PM games. Much easier to get people to listen to you there
Are you willing to join the Artanis wagon? Let's get this done with.
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On December 14 2013 04:07 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 04:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
LSB there are other things that make me think Artanis is scum besides the argument with Xatalos. Link to pushpost(s) please?
You should be able to see it pretty clearly & fast.
- distracts me when I'm pressuring in the early game and calls me scum for it (lol)
- apathetic vote for Spag
- (a)pathetic case on me
- bad logic in his accusations
- overall weak and useless play
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On December 14 2013 04:12 purpletrator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 05:59 Holyflare wrote:
Cora just copied half the shit i wrote in my vote analysis post, claims I'm scum. I'm going to die tonight plu is ma fwend.
Lynch cora, artanis, xatalos, bum, grack most of those are scummy Gee, I wonder who Holyflare ( Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet!) decided to protect. Hmmmmmmmm lets all think really really hard about this now guys. I wonder. Who could it be?
Lol that wasn't even encrypted or anything.... Yet somehow I missed it.
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On December 14 2013 04:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 04:12 purpletrator wrote:On December 13 2013 05:59 Holyflare wrote:
Cora just copied half the shit i wrote in my vote analysis post, claims I'm scum. I'm going to die tonight plu is ma fwend.
Lynch cora, artanis, xatalos, bum, grack most of those are scummy Gee, I wonder who Holyflare ( Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet!) decided to protect. Hmmmmmmmm lets all think really really hard about this now guys. I wonder. Who could it be? And this makes Plutarch town how? You draw an assumption that mafia did shoot Plutarch? Why do you assume so?
Yeah, it could have been a double-stack on HF as well.
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If this is purple having extra information then he and VA aren't both scum at least. Since VA talked about HF being double-stacked.
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On December 14 2013 04:21 LSB wrote:
Gauis, I know you love information lynches.
Think, if we shoot purple and he flips red, we know that Plutarch is town due to ez scumslip.
Hahah. That's a nice thought.
Although if scum NK'd Plutarch last time, they're probably doing it again now that the Medic is dead.
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Gotta go for some time. GL HF in the meantime!
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I haven't been very successful in reading rayn in the past. He feels pretty townie though (even that paranoia for Plutarch seems quite townie IMO). I see no point in even discussing lynching him at this point.
LSB seemed like a good lynch earlier, but there's one issue that bothers me. Essentially it's that I agree on his points about purple, and after closely reading through sidesprang's filter, I think sidesprang is actually more scummy than LSB.
Firstly, there's this "bait and switch" that LSB mentioned:
On December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote:
Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example.
--------
About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town.
He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me".
And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town.
I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at.
-------
@Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating.
This is basically the most non-committal bandwagon move in the whole game. He just half-heartedly joins the bandwagon while keeping his options open (either to vote for Cora or to forget about the whole thing). I also dislike him calling Corazon "anti-town" rather than "scummy". It shows a mindset where he doesn't really believe Corazon to be scum, but rather believes him to be an anti-town townie (or that's how it seems like). Still, it's another point against Corazon without even calling him scum for it.
On December 11 2013 21:57 sidesprang wrote:
JarJarDrinks : I dont like this guy atm, might just be because he went after me. But in his filter he says he finds zeroing in on details scummy, and thats what he's been doing half his post. And his case against me with the "anti-town" thing I just find very very weak. I kinda get the feeling he's trying to pick some low hanging fruit with the way he's saying "hey look at this".
His posts are just so... defensive, weak and non-committal. Like this very weak read on JarJar (that's even partly OMGUS). Overall he's been very passive and flying under the radar for the whole game. And he seems to be content with that situation, not even trying to play pro-actively.
On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote:
Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia
VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
This post.... At first I only focused my attention on the VA theory, but actually the worrying part is the bolded one. It pretty much says "I won't be voting until I can bandwagon on someone easily". Not exactly in those words, but that's basically what it means (especially combined with the fact that he has been lurking all D2). I wouldn't be surprised if he just came back later today to park his vote on some popular lynch target.
- - - -
So basically I agree with LSB's reads, which makes me not really want to lynch him at the moment. I think I'd prefer Artanis, sidesprang or purple. Specifically Artanis and sidesprang look bad.
How many players would be willing to lynch Artanis? Or sidesprang or purple?
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On December 14 2013 20:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I'm not sure LSB is a good lynch. Avoiding responsibility seems to be the only thing he's done. He's too blatantly talking about scum agenda's and what he thinks scum would do. It feels more like he's trying to place himself into the position of a scum player to catch them. Hypocrisy also isn't something I'd ascribe to scum players alone. Look at Cora. Called out players for not being allowed to be inactive, then said he'd be inactive in the same post. The case on LSB doesn't make him scum imo. I've already said what I think about Rayn and Xatalos, but I don't know what your view on Xatalos is Plutarch. Could you inform me? Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 03:24 kushm4sta wrote:LOL plz plz do not stoke the fire that lies inside corazon's butt. We know he's town. He is a master troll. The best way to fight a troll is to ignore it. I came around to artanis being town. His push for xatalos seems really genuine, and I think it might be right. Still need to read xatalos' filter, but let me just say I am super unimpressed with his recent long post. If you look it actually contains deceptively little content. On December 14 2013 03:07 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote:
Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia
VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
Not necessarily. Scum can make suspicious votes even if it's town vs town. Naturally the suspicious votes are even more suspicious if VA is scum. On December 13 2013 21:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Plutarch, Rayn, Kush, and anyone else here please comment on my points regarding Xatalos. I don't like that he's not being discussed at all. Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure.
-Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him.
-First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread.
-Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone.
-Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Could we please lynch this scum already?
Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is. These are pretty much non-points / things I have already explained (and Artanis clearly hasn't read). Some of the points are even townie for me (overall aggression, generating discussion, pressuring a lot). That's how I've basically always started the game as town (and recently as scum too -> pretty much null). Really quite bad reasons for wanting to lynch me #1. Incidentally, this "case" is a decent additional reason to lynch Artanis. How many would be up for lynching Artanis today? rayn, you at least mentioned that Artanis was scummy N1. Please, get off Plutarch and lynch a much scummier player (Plutarch isn't even scummy, and it puzzles me that you're going for him). On December 13 2013 05:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet!
bumatlarge the Civilian has been eaten by Sebastian! Holyflare's death doesn't give that much new info in itself, but the more important part is that it confirms Corazon as a (misguided) Vigi. Regardless, he's town, which makes Artanis look (very slightly) better and probably me/Plutarch worse. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. (as a sidenote, from the shock that this Vigi shot caused, I probably won't be trusting Vigilantes to make sensible choices in the future). bum's death is a big mystery to me, since he did pretty much nothing all game. Does anyone have an idea about why the SK would shoot him? Maybe he thought bum was scum? In that case there might be some merit in going through who suspected bum. - - - - Other players who would be decent lynches are purple and LSB. - purple's vote wasn't that scummy, but he's been lurking and posting useless one-liners all game... and now we also know that Corazon is town, which makes purple slightly more likely scum - LSB has been throwing his vote around meaninglessly all game... hasn't truly pushed anything, just bandwagoned or thrown his vote here or there... and his Spag vote was actually about as scummy as that of Artanis VA, kush, Grackaroni and sidesprang aren't looking good either. VA has been just targeting the easiest lynches, kush happily lynched his own townread, Grackaroni's vote was pretty scummy too and sidesprang has barely posted enough to avoid being policy lynched. I think we should start from Artanis and continue from there. There are a lot of scummy players, but it should get easier when one is flipped. So yeah sorry for calling your case bad artanis. Glad you came around bb <3
Well, this makes me a bit more worried about LSB again. That's such a wishy-washy stance.
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LSB, if you're town, you better start playing like it. Because I sure don't like Artanis's stance on you.
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On December 14 2013 18:02 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 17:08 kushm4sta wrote:
LSB
xatalos
alakaslam
xigxag
pretty sure that's the scumteam or at least close I could agree with 75% of this, except only halfheartedly- on all three.
Care to elaborate?
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On December 14 2013 20:52 kushm4sta wrote:
@xatalos let me get this straight.
Your read on LSB is being affected by Artanis' read on LSB?
Seems like total wifom to me.
Well, I guess it's stupid to think about associations before flips.
It just looks really shady when Artanis comments so wishy-washily on LSB.
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On December 14 2013 20:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 20:43 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 20:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I'm not sure LSB is a good lynch. Avoiding responsibility seems to be the only thing he's done. He's too blatantly talking about scum agenda's and what he thinks scum would do. It feels more like he's trying to place himself into the position of a scum player to catch them. Hypocrisy also isn't something I'd ascribe to scum players alone. Look at Cora. Called out players for not being allowed to be inactive, then said he'd be inactive in the same post. The case on LSB doesn't make him scum imo. I've already said what I think about Rayn and Xatalos, but I don't know what your view on Xatalos is Plutarch. Could you inform me? On December 14 2013 03:24 kushm4sta wrote:LOL plz plz do not stoke the fire that lies inside corazon's butt. We know he's town. He is a master troll. The best way to fight a troll is to ignore it. I came around to artanis being town. His push for xatalos seems really genuine, and I think it might be right. Still need to read xatalos' filter, but let me just say I am super unimpressed with his recent long post. If you look it actually contains deceptively little content. On December 14 2013 03:07 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote:
Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia
VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
Not necessarily. Scum can make suspicious votes even if it's town vs town. Naturally the suspicious votes are even more suspicious if VA is scum. On December 13 2013 21:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Plutarch, Rayn, Kush, and anyone else here please comment on my points regarding Xatalos. I don't like that he's not being discussed at all. Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure.
-Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him.
-First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread.
-Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone.
-Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Could we please lynch this scum already?
Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is. These are pretty much non-points / things I have already explained (and Artanis clearly hasn't read). Some of the points are even townie for me (overall aggression, generating discussion, pressuring a lot). That's how I've basically always started the game as town (and recently as scum too -> pretty much null). Really quite bad reasons for wanting to lynch me #1. Incidentally, this "case" is a decent additional reason to lynch Artanis. How many would be up for lynching Artanis today? rayn, you at least mentioned that Artanis was scummy N1. Please, get off Plutarch and lynch a much scummier player (Plutarch isn't even scummy, and it puzzles me that you're going for him). On December 13 2013 05:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet!
bumatlarge the Civilian has been eaten by Sebastian! Holyflare's death doesn't give that much new info in itself, but the more important part is that it confirms Corazon as a (misguided) Vigi. Regardless, he's town, which makes Artanis look (very slightly) better and probably me/Plutarch worse. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. (as a sidenote, from the shock that this Vigi shot caused, I probably won't be trusting Vigilantes to make sensible choices in the future). bum's death is a big mystery to me, since he did pretty much nothing all game. Does anyone have an idea about why the SK would shoot him? Maybe he thought bum was scum? In that case there might be some merit in going through who suspected bum. - - - - Other players who would be decent lynches are purple and LSB. - purple's vote wasn't that scummy, but he's been lurking and posting useless one-liners all game... and now we also know that Corazon is town, which makes purple slightly more likely scum - LSB has been throwing his vote around meaninglessly all game... hasn't truly pushed anything, just bandwagoned or thrown his vote here or there... and his Spag vote was actually about as scummy as that of Artanis VA, kush, Grackaroni and sidesprang aren't looking good either. VA has been just targeting the easiest lynches, kush happily lynched his own townread, Grackaroni's vote was pretty scummy too and sidesprang has barely posted enough to avoid being policy lynched. I think we should start from Artanis and continue from there. There are a lot of scummy players, but it should get easier when one is flipped. So yeah sorry for calling your case bad artanis. Glad you came around bb <3 Well, this makes me a bit more worried about LSB again. That's such a wishy-washy stance. How is it Wishy-Washy? I'm pretty clear in that I don't want to lynch him right now.
Judging from that post, your stance was more like "eh, I don't really think he's a good lynch, but I'm not sure".
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On December 14 2013 20:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 20:43 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 20:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I'm not sure LSB is a good lynch. Avoiding responsibility seems to be the only thing he's done. He's too blatantly talking about scum agenda's and what he thinks scum would do. It feels more like he's trying to place himself into the position of a scum player to catch them. Hypocrisy also isn't something I'd ascribe to scum players alone. Look at Cora. Called out players for not being allowed to be inactive, then said he'd be inactive in the same post. The case on LSB doesn't make him scum imo. I've already said what I think about Rayn and Xatalos, but I don't know what your view on Xatalos is Plutarch. Could you inform me? On December 14 2013 03:24 kushm4sta wrote:LOL plz plz do not stoke the fire that lies inside corazon's butt. We know he's town. He is a master troll. The best way to fight a troll is to ignore it. I came around to artanis being town. His push for xatalos seems really genuine, and I think it might be right. Still need to read xatalos' filter, but let me just say I am super unimpressed with his recent long post. If you look it actually contains deceptively little content. On December 14 2013 03:07 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote:
Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia
VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
Not necessarily. Scum can make suspicious votes even if it's town vs town. Naturally the suspicious votes are even more suspicious if VA is scum. On December 13 2013 21:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Plutarch, Rayn, Kush, and anyone else here please comment on my points regarding Xatalos. I don't like that he's not being discussed at all. Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure.
-Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him.
-First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread.
-Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone.
-Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Could we please lynch this scum already?
Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is. These are pretty much non-points / things I have already explained (and Artanis clearly hasn't read). Some of the points are even townie for me (overall aggression, generating discussion, pressuring a lot). That's how I've basically always started the game as town (and recently as scum too -> pretty much null). Really quite bad reasons for wanting to lynch me #1. Incidentally, this "case" is a decent additional reason to lynch Artanis. How many would be up for lynching Artanis today? rayn, you at least mentioned that Artanis was scummy N1. Please, get off Plutarch and lynch a much scummier player (Plutarch isn't even scummy, and it puzzles me that you're going for him). On December 13 2013 05:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet!
bumatlarge the Civilian has been eaten by Sebastian! Holyflare's death doesn't give that much new info in itself, but the more important part is that it confirms Corazon as a (misguided) Vigi. Regardless, he's town, which makes Artanis look (very slightly) better and probably me/Plutarch worse. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. (as a sidenote, from the shock that this Vigi shot caused, I probably won't be trusting Vigilantes to make sensible choices in the future). bum's death is a big mystery to me, since he did pretty much nothing all game. Does anyone have an idea about why the SK would shoot him? Maybe he thought bum was scum? In that case there might be some merit in going through who suspected bum. - - - - Other players who would be decent lynches are purple and LSB. - purple's vote wasn't that scummy, but he's been lurking and posting useless one-liners all game... and now we also know that Corazon is town, which makes purple slightly more likely scum - LSB has been throwing his vote around meaninglessly all game... hasn't truly pushed anything, just bandwagoned or thrown his vote here or there... and his Spag vote was actually about as scummy as that of Artanis VA, kush, Grackaroni and sidesprang aren't looking good either. VA has been just targeting the easiest lynches, kush happily lynched his own townread, Grackaroni's vote was pretty scummy too and sidesprang has barely posted enough to avoid being policy lynched. I think we should start from Artanis and continue from there. There are a lot of scummy players, but it should get easier when one is flipped. So yeah sorry for calling your case bad artanis. Glad you came around bb <3 Well, this makes me a bit more worried about LSB again. That's such a wishy-washy stance. How is it Wishy-Washy? I'm pretty clear in that I don't want to lynch him right now.
But if you don't want to lynch him, then fine.
Although I'd like you to elaborate on "right now".
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On December 14 2013 20:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 20:56 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 20:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 14 2013 20:43 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 20:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I'm not sure LSB is a good lynch. Avoiding responsibility seems to be the only thing he's done. He's too blatantly talking about scum agenda's and what he thinks scum would do. It feels more like he's trying to place himself into the position of a scum player to catch them. Hypocrisy also isn't something I'd ascribe to scum players alone. Look at Cora. Called out players for not being allowed to be inactive, then said he'd be inactive in the same post. The case on LSB doesn't make him scum imo. I've already said what I think about Rayn and Xatalos, but I don't know what your view on Xatalos is Plutarch. Could you inform me? On December 14 2013 03:24 kushm4sta wrote:LOL plz plz do not stoke the fire that lies inside corazon's butt. We know he's town. He is a master troll. The best way to fight a troll is to ignore it. I came around to artanis being town. His push for xatalos seems really genuine, and I think it might be right. Still need to read xatalos' filter, but let me just say I am super unimpressed with his recent long post. If you look it actually contains deceptively little content. On December 14 2013 03:07 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote:
Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia
VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
Not necessarily. Scum can make suspicious votes even if it's town vs town. Naturally the suspicious votes are even more suspicious if VA is scum. On December 13 2013 21:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Plutarch, Rayn, Kush, and anyone else here please comment on my points regarding Xatalos. I don't like that he's not being discussed at all. Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure.
-Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him.
-First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread.
-Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone.
-Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Could we please lynch this scum already?
Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is. These are pretty much non-points / things I have already explained (and Artanis clearly hasn't read). Some of the points are even townie for me (overall aggression, generating discussion, pressuring a lot). That's how I've basically always started the game as town (and recently as scum too -> pretty much null). Really quite bad reasons for wanting to lynch me #1. Incidentally, this "case" is a decent additional reason to lynch Artanis. How many would be up for lynching Artanis today? rayn, you at least mentioned that Artanis was scummy N1. Please, get off Plutarch and lynch a much scummier player (Plutarch isn't even scummy, and it puzzles me that you're going for him). On December 13 2013 05:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet!
bumatlarge the Civilian has been eaten by Sebastian! Holyflare's death doesn't give that much new info in itself, but the more important part is that it confirms Corazon as a (misguided) Vigi. Regardless, he's town, which makes Artanis look (very slightly) better and probably me/Plutarch worse. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. (as a sidenote, from the shock that this Vigi shot caused, I probably won't be trusting Vigilantes to make sensible choices in the future). bum's death is a big mystery to me, since he did pretty much nothing all game. Does anyone have an idea about why the SK would shoot him? Maybe he thought bum was scum? In that case there might be some merit in going through who suspected bum. - - - - Other players who would be decent lynches are purple and LSB. - purple's vote wasn't that scummy, but he's been lurking and posting useless one-liners all game... and now we also know that Corazon is town, which makes purple slightly more likely scum - LSB has been throwing his vote around meaninglessly all game... hasn't truly pushed anything, just bandwagoned or thrown his vote here or there... and his Spag vote was actually about as scummy as that of Artanis VA, kush, Grackaroni and sidesprang aren't looking good either. VA has been just targeting the easiest lynches, kush happily lynched his own townread, Grackaroni's vote was pretty scummy too and sidesprang has barely posted enough to avoid being policy lynched. I think we should start from Artanis and continue from there. There are a lot of scummy players, but it should get easier when one is flipped. So yeah sorry for calling your case bad artanis. Glad you came around bb <3 Well, this makes me a bit more worried about LSB again. That's such a wishy-washy stance. How is it Wishy-Washy? I'm pretty clear in that I don't want to lynch him right now. Judging from that post, your stance was more like "eh, I don't really think he's a good lynch, but I'm not sure". The rest of the post goes into why I don't want to lynch him because nothing from his filter to me suggests he's more likely scum than town. It seems to me like you're taking every excuse to paint me as scum even when the arguments don't hold any water, which is further strengthening my scum read on you.
Maybe I focused too strongly on the first sentence. Dunno why you would say you're "not sure" about lynching him and then proceed to have no arguments for him being scum though............ Shouldn't you think that he's town then? Like.... what?
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On December 14 2013 21:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 21:00 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 20:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 14 2013 20:56 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 20:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 14 2013 20:43 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 20:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I'm not sure LSB is a good lynch. Avoiding responsibility seems to be the only thing he's done. He's too blatantly talking about scum agenda's and what he thinks scum would do. It feels more like he's trying to place himself into the position of a scum player to catch them. Hypocrisy also isn't something I'd ascribe to scum players alone. Look at Cora. Called out players for not being allowed to be inactive, then said he'd be inactive in the same post. The case on LSB doesn't make him scum imo. I've already said what I think about Rayn and Xatalos, but I don't know what your view on Xatalos is Plutarch. Could you inform me? On December 14 2013 03:24 kushm4sta wrote:LOL plz plz do not stoke the fire that lies inside corazon's butt. We know he's town. He is a master troll. The best way to fight a troll is to ignore it. I came around to artanis being town. His push for xatalos seems really genuine, and I think it might be right. Still need to read xatalos' filter, but let me just say I am super unimpressed with his recent long post. If you look it actually contains deceptively little content. On December 14 2013 03:07 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote:
Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia
VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
Not necessarily. Scum can make suspicious votes even if it's town vs town. Naturally the suspicious votes are even more suspicious if VA is scum. On December 13 2013 21:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Plutarch, Rayn, Kush, and anyone else here please comment on my points regarding Xatalos. I don't like that he's not being discussed at all. Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure.
-Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him.
-First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread.
-Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone.
-Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Could we please lynch this scum already?
Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is. These are pretty much non-points / things I have already explained (and Artanis clearly hasn't read). Some of the points are even townie for me (overall aggression, generating discussion, pressuring a lot). That's how I've basically always started the game as town (and recently as scum too -> pretty much null). Really quite bad reasons for wanting to lynch me #1. Incidentally, this "case" is a decent additional reason to lynch Artanis. How many would be up for lynching Artanis today? rayn, you at least mentioned that Artanis was scummy N1. Please, get off Plutarch and lynch a much scummier player (Plutarch isn't even scummy, and it puzzles me that you're going for him). On December 13 2013 05:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet!
bumatlarge the Civilian has been eaten by Sebastian! Holyflare's death doesn't give that much new info in itself, but the more important part is that it confirms Corazon as a (misguided) Vigi. Regardless, he's town, which makes Artanis look (very slightly) better and probably me/Plutarch worse. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. (as a sidenote, from the shock that this Vigi shot caused, I probably won't be trusting Vigilantes to make sensible choices in the future). bum's death is a big mystery to me, since he did pretty much nothing all game. Does anyone have an idea about why the SK would shoot him? Maybe he thought bum was scum? In that case there might be some merit in going through who suspected bum. - - - - Other players who would be decent lynches are purple and LSB. - purple's vote wasn't that scummy, but he's been lurking and posting useless one-liners all game... and now we also know that Corazon is town, which makes purple slightly more likely scum - LSB has been throwing his vote around meaninglessly all game... hasn't truly pushed anything, just bandwagoned or thrown his vote here or there... and his Spag vote was actually about as scummy as that of Artanis VA, kush, Grackaroni and sidesprang aren't looking good either. VA has been just targeting the easiest lynches, kush happily lynched his own townread, Grackaroni's vote was pretty scummy too and sidesprang has barely posted enough to avoid being policy lynched. I think we should start from Artanis and continue from there. There are a lot of scummy players, but it should get easier when one is flipped. So yeah sorry for calling your case bad artanis. Glad you came around bb <3 Well, this makes me a bit more worried about LSB again. That's such a wishy-washy stance. How is it Wishy-Washy? I'm pretty clear in that I don't want to lynch him right now. Judging from that post, your stance was more like "eh, I don't really think he's a good lynch, but I'm not sure". The rest of the post goes into why I don't want to lynch him because nothing from his filter to me suggests he's more likely scum than town. It seems to me like you're taking every excuse to paint me as scum even when the arguments don't hold any water, which is further strengthening my scum read on you. Maybe I focused too strongly on the first sentence. Dunno why you would say you're "not sure" about lynching him and then proceed to have no arguments for him being scum though............ Shouldn't you think that he's town then? Like.... what? When you don't have a scum or town read on someone, it's called being "not sure" or "null".
Hmm, fine. "Null" isn't a very convincing stance to have on him either, though.
While you're here - you want to lynch me and rayn. I highly doubt either of us are going to be lynched. If it can't be either of us, who do you want to lynch then?
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On December 14 2013 21:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Xatalos your stance on LSB isn't much clearer than Artanis'.
Don't think of Artanis at all, do you or do you not want to lynch LSB? You said you thought he was a good lynch but in the same post you say you agree with his reads, so you don't want to lynch him. Which is it?
I'd say he's lynchable, but not he best lynch. Maybe 60% chance of flipping scum. That's why I'm looking elsewhere at the moment.
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Btw rayn, you agreed on Artanis. But what about sidesprang/purple?
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On December 14 2013 21:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Unvote:
##Vote: Xatalos
Lol. I can't be unsure about if someone is town/scum? You think I'm scum with LSB or what?
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On December 14 2013 21:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Like the last page all you do is call Artanis out of his "wishy-washy" read on LSB when he's been very clear saying he does not think LSB is scum and then your read is wishy-washy as fuck.
That was mostly because I was worried about an association between Artanis/LSB. Artanis is null on LSB, I'm leaning slightly scum. What's scummy about that? I agree I'm not confident about what LSB is, but that hardly makes me scum.
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On December 14 2013 21:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You think he is scum but he is not the best lynch. Of course he is if you think he is scum.
There are different levels of scummy. It's not that someone is 100% town or 100% scum. Why lynch the less scummy player over the more scummy? You don't make sense.
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Waiting for an explanation, rayn...
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On December 14 2013 21:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
It is not the fact you think he is more or less scummy than anyone else. You call out Artanis for his wishy washy read on LSB and you have the exact same kind of read on LSB. How does that make sense?
As I said, I was mostly thinking of a possible association between Artanis/LSB (since the read seemed rather wishy-washy) and not that the read itself was scummy. As you could see from my earlier posts, I was quite undecided about LSB myself. How doesn't that make sense?
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On December 14 2013 21:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 20:43 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 20:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I'm not sure LSB is a good lynch. Avoiding responsibility seems to be the only thing he's done. He's too blatantly talking about scum agenda's and what he thinks scum would do. It feels more like he's trying to place himself into the position of a scum player to catch them. Hypocrisy also isn't something I'd ascribe to scum players alone. Look at Cora. Called out players for not being allowed to be inactive, then said he'd be inactive in the same post. The case on LSB doesn't make him scum imo. I've already said what I think about Rayn and Xatalos, but I don't know what your view on Xatalos is Plutarch. Could you inform me? On December 14 2013 03:24 kushm4sta wrote:LOL plz plz do not stoke the fire that lies inside corazon's butt. We know he's town. He is a master troll. The best way to fight a troll is to ignore it. I came around to artanis being town. His push for xatalos seems really genuine, and I think it might be right. Still need to read xatalos' filter, but let me just say I am super unimpressed with his recent long post. If you look it actually contains deceptively little content. On December 14 2013 03:07 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote:
Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia
VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
Not necessarily. Scum can make suspicious votes even if it's town vs town. Naturally the suspicious votes are even more suspicious if VA is scum. On December 13 2013 21:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Plutarch, Rayn, Kush, and anyone else here please comment on my points regarding Xatalos. I don't like that he's not being discussed at all. Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure.
-Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him.
-First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread.
-Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone.
-Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Could we please lynch this scum already?
Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is. These are pretty much non-points / things I have already explained (and Artanis clearly hasn't read). Some of the points are even townie for me (overall aggression, generating discussion, pressuring a lot). That's how I've basically always started the game as town (and recently as scum too -> pretty much null). Really quite bad reasons for wanting to lynch me #1. Incidentally, this "case" is a decent additional reason to lynch Artanis. How many would be up for lynching Artanis today? rayn, you at least mentioned that Artanis was scummy N1. Please, get off Plutarch and lynch a much scummier player (Plutarch isn't even scummy, and it puzzles me that you're going for him). On December 13 2013 05:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet!
bumatlarge the Civilian has been eaten by Sebastian! Holyflare's death doesn't give that much new info in itself, but the more important part is that it confirms Corazon as a (misguided) Vigi. Regardless, he's town, which makes Artanis look (very slightly) better and probably me/Plutarch worse. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. (as a sidenote, from the shock that this Vigi shot caused, I probably won't be trusting Vigilantes to make sensible choices in the future). bum's death is a big mystery to me, since he did pretty much nothing all game. Does anyone have an idea about why the SK would shoot him? Maybe he thought bum was scum? In that case there might be some merit in going through who suspected bum. - - - - Other players who would be decent lynches are purple and LSB. - purple's vote wasn't that scummy, but he's been lurking and posting useless one-liners all game... and now we also know that Corazon is town, which makes purple slightly more likely scum - LSB has been throwing his vote around meaninglessly all game... hasn't truly pushed anything, just bandwagoned or thrown his vote here or there... and his Spag vote was actually about as scummy as that of Artanis VA, kush, Grackaroni and sidesprang aren't looking good either. VA has been just targeting the easiest lynches, kush happily lynched his own townread, Grackaroni's vote was pretty scummy too and sidesprang has barely posted enough to avoid being policy lynched. I think we should start from Artanis and continue from there. There are a lot of scummy players, but it should get easier when one is flipped. So yeah sorry for calling your case bad artanis. Glad you came around bb <3 Well, this makes me a bit more worried about LSB again. That's such a wishy-washy stance. If you don't understand this then i don't know what to tell you. You call out Artanis for having a wishy-washy read on LSB. Then you yourself have at least an equally wishy-washy read on LSB. So by your definition you are calling Artanis scum for something you right after do yourself. How does that make sense to you? If you are town how can Artanis' actions be scummy if you yourself do same things as town?
If you read the situation more carefully, you would understand that Artanis's read was making me more suspicious of LSB and not the other way around.
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On December 14 2013 21:39 xigxag wrote:
xatalos would be my read of xat by the way. I see some votes on him. He seemed like town or sk, not scum from earlier readong. Just my 2c.
What does this mean? I'd like some explanation regarding your read.
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As a sidenote, Artanis conveniently disappeared right after I asked him about his reads.....
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On December 14 2013 21:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 21:44 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 21:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 14 2013 20:43 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 20:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I'm not sure LSB is a good lynch. Avoiding responsibility seems to be the only thing he's done. He's too blatantly talking about scum agenda's and what he thinks scum would do. It feels more like he's trying to place himself into the position of a scum player to catch them. Hypocrisy also isn't something I'd ascribe to scum players alone. Look at Cora. Called out players for not being allowed to be inactive, then said he'd be inactive in the same post. The case on LSB doesn't make him scum imo. I've already said what I think about Rayn and Xatalos, but I don't know what your view on Xatalos is Plutarch. Could you inform me? On December 14 2013 03:24 kushm4sta wrote:LOL plz plz do not stoke the fire that lies inside corazon's butt. We know he's town. He is a master troll. The best way to fight a troll is to ignore it. I came around to artanis being town. His push for xatalos seems really genuine, and I think it might be right. Still need to read xatalos' filter, but let me just say I am super unimpressed with his recent long post. If you look it actually contains deceptively little content. On December 14 2013 03:07 Xatalos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote:
Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia
VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
Not necessarily. Scum can make suspicious votes even if it's town vs town. Naturally the suspicious votes are even more suspicious if VA is scum. On December 13 2013 21:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Plutarch, Rayn, Kush, and anyone else here please comment on my points regarding Xatalos. I don't like that he's not being discussed at all. Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure.
-Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him.
-First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread.
-Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone.
-Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Could we please lynch this scum already?
Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is. These are pretty much non-points / things I have already explained (and Artanis clearly hasn't read). Some of the points are even townie for me (overall aggression, generating discussion, pressuring a lot). That's how I've basically always started the game as town (and recently as scum too -> pretty much null). Really quite bad reasons for wanting to lynch me #1. Incidentally, this "case" is a decent additional reason to lynch Artanis. How many would be up for lynching Artanis today? rayn, you at least mentioned that Artanis was scummy N1. Please, get off Plutarch and lynch a much scummier player (Plutarch isn't even scummy, and it puzzles me that you're going for him). On December 13 2013 05:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet!
bumatlarge the Civilian has been eaten by Sebastian! Holyflare's death doesn't give that much new info in itself, but the more important part is that it confirms Corazon as a (misguided) Vigi. Regardless, he's town, which makes Artanis look (very slightly) better and probably me/Plutarch worse. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. (as a sidenote, from the shock that this Vigi shot caused, I probably won't be trusting Vigilantes to make sensible choices in the future). bum's death is a big mystery to me, since he did pretty much nothing all game. Does anyone have an idea about why the SK would shoot him? Maybe he thought bum was scum? In that case there might be some merit in going through who suspected bum. - - - - Other players who would be decent lynches are purple and LSB. - purple's vote wasn't that scummy, but he's been lurking and posting useless one-liners all game... and now we also know that Corazon is town, which makes purple slightly more likely scum - LSB has been throwing his vote around meaninglessly all game... hasn't truly pushed anything, just bandwagoned or thrown his vote here or there... and his Spag vote was actually about as scummy as that of Artanis VA, kush, Grackaroni and sidesprang aren't looking good either. VA has been just targeting the easiest lynches, kush happily lynched his own townread, Grackaroni's vote was pretty scummy too and sidesprang has barely posted enough to avoid being policy lynched. I think we should start from Artanis and continue from there. There are a lot of scummy players, but it should get easier when one is flipped. So yeah sorry for calling your case bad artanis. Glad you came around bb <3 Well, this makes me a bit more worried about LSB again. That's such a wishy-washy stance. If you don't understand this then i don't know what to tell you. You call out Artanis for having a wishy-washy read on LSB. Then you yourself have at least an equally wishy-washy read on LSB. So by your definition you are calling Artanis scum for something you right after do yourself. How does that make sense to you? If you are town how can Artanis' actions be scummy if you yourself do same things as town? If you read the situation more carefully, you would understand that Artanis's read was making me more suspicious of LSB and not the other way around. And why do you base your read on LSB on what Artanis says?
As I said, it's generally not good play to make pre-flip association cases, but I tried pressuring him to see if there was a connection between Artanis/LSB - so that if one of them flipped scum, this connection could be studied. The result wasn't anything spectacular, but there's still a possible connection between them.
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What I mean is.... That's what I'd expect him to say about his scummate. "I don't want to lynch him now, but I'm not sure about him." Gives him the room to bus, but also to back off is necessary.
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On December 14 2013 22:04 sidesprang wrote:And to answer you a bit Xata Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 20:42 Xatalos wrote:I haven't been very successful in reading rayn in the past. He feels pretty townie though (even that paranoia for Plutarch seems quite townie IMO). I see no point in even discussing lynching him at this point. LSB seemed like a good lynch earlier, but there's one issue that bothers me. Essentially it's that I agree on his points about purple, and after closely reading through sidesprang's filter, I think sidesprang is actually more scummy than LSB. Firstly, there's this "bait and switch" that LSB mentioned: On December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote:
Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example.
--------
About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town.
He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me".
And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town.
I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at.
-------
@Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating.
This is basically the most non-committal bandwagon move in the whole game. He just half-heartedly joins the bandwagon while keeping his options open (either to vote for Cora or to forget about the whole thing). I also dislike him calling Corazon "anti-town" rather than "scummy". It shows a mindset where he doesn't really believe Corazon to be scum, but rather believes him to be an anti-town townie (or that's how it seems like). Still, it's another point against Corazon without even calling him scum for it. I allready answered this, I said I did not find Cora to be behaving scummy at that time but I did not belive him to be scum. And i'm a bit suprised you have a problem with this, It's basically the same thing you are doing with LSB atm, only my scum % on cora was way less than your 60% on LSB.
On December 11 2013 21:57 sidesprang wrote:
JarJarDrinks : I dont like this guy atm, might just be because he went after me. But in his filter he says he finds zeroing in on details scummy, and thats what he's been doing half his post. And his case against me with the "anti-town" thing I just find very very weak. I kinda get the feeling he's trying to pick some low hanging fruit with the way he's saying "hey look at this".
His posts are just so... defensive, weak and non-committal. Like this very weak read on JarJar (that's even partly OMGUS). Overall he's been very passive and flying under the radar for the whole game. And he seems to be content with that situation, not even trying to play pro-actively. This was the last guy I mentioned there and also therefor my weakest scumread at the time. He was not scum to me at the time, I just thought his behaviour and his comment about zeroing in on details was worth mentioning at the time.On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote:
Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia
VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
This post.... At first I only focused my attention on the VA theory, but actually the worrying part is the bolded one. It pretty much says "I won't be voting until I can bandwagon on someone easily". Not exactly in those words, but that's basically what it means (especially combined with the fact that he has been lurking all D2). I wouldn't be surprised if he just came back later today to park his vote on some popular lynch target. I must say I really like this comment, When D1 I voted semi early on Vayne, which was definetly not a bustarget at that moment, and you came in late and "parked" your vote on the popular lynch target.
- - - - So basically I agree with LSB's reads, which makes me not really want to lynch him at the moment. I think I'd prefer Artanis, sidesprang or purple. Specifically Artanis and sidesprang look bad. How many players would be willing to lynch Artanis? Or sidesprang or purple?
Your vote on VA is pretty much the definition of "parking" a vote. It had no meaning, you didn't push him, it just sat there without any use. And you still haven't done anything to push a vote today either. Are you planning to?
Fair enough (about the JarJar read).
Well, it's true that my stance on LSB is a bit similar to your stance on Corazon. However, it's much more worrying in your case, since you haven't really done anything else besides that. Or you have posted some reads, but you haven't impacted the game in any way. You've just defended yourself a bit and posted a couple of reads.
If VA didn't exist, who would you want to lynch?
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On December 14 2013 22:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 22:01 Xatalos wrote:
What I mean is.... That's what I'd expect him to say about his scummate. "I don't want to lynch him now, but I'm not sure about him." Gives him the room to bus, but also to back off is necessary. Isn't this exactly what you said about LSB?
Well, not really, since I just said that he wasn't my #1 lynch. That's not the point though. It's probably partly because of some confirmation bias towards Artanis that this LSB-read jumped out at me, but I think it's still worth looking at later on if LSB flips scum.
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On December 14 2013 22:26 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 22:15 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 22:04 sidesprang wrote:And to answer you a bit Xata On December 14 2013 20:42 Xatalos wrote:I haven't been very successful in reading rayn in the past. He feels pretty townie though (even that paranoia for Plutarch seems quite townie IMO). I see no point in even discussing lynching him at this point. LSB seemed like a good lynch earlier, but there's one issue that bothers me. Essentially it's that I agree on his points about purple, and after closely reading through sidesprang's filter, I think sidesprang is actually more scummy than LSB. Firstly, there's this "bait and switch" that LSB mentioned: On December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote:
Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example.
--------
About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town.
He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me".
And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town.
I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at.
-------
@Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating.
This is basically the most non-committal bandwagon move in the whole game. He just half-heartedly joins the bandwagon while keeping his options open (either to vote for Cora or to forget about the whole thing). I also dislike him calling Corazon "anti-town" rather than "scummy". It shows a mindset where he doesn't really believe Corazon to be scum, but rather believes him to be an anti-town townie (or that's how it seems like). Still, it's another point against Corazon without even calling him scum for it. I allready answered this, I said I did not find Cora to be behaving scummy at that time but I did not belive him to be scum. And i'm a bit suprised you have a problem with this, It's basically the same thing you are doing with LSB atm, only my scum % on cora was way less than your 60% on LSB.
On December 11 2013 21:57 sidesprang wrote:
JarJarDrinks : I dont like this guy atm, might just be because he went after me. But in his filter he says he finds zeroing in on details scummy, and thats what he's been doing half his post. And his case against me with the "anti-town" thing I just find very very weak. I kinda get the feeling he's trying to pick some low hanging fruit with the way he's saying "hey look at this".
His posts are just so... defensive, weak and non-committal. Like this very weak read on JarJar (that's even partly OMGUS). Overall he's been very passive and flying under the radar for the whole game. And he seems to be content with that situation, not even trying to play pro-actively. This was the last guy I mentioned there and also therefor my weakest scumread at the time. He was not scum to me at the time, I just thought his behaviour and his comment about zeroing in on details was worth mentioning at the time.On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote:
Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia
VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
This post.... At first I only focused my attention on the VA theory, but actually the worrying part is the bolded one. It pretty much says "I won't be voting until I can bandwagon on someone easily". Not exactly in those words, but that's basically what it means (especially combined with the fact that he has been lurking all D2). I wouldn't be surprised if he just came back later today to park his vote on some popular lynch target. I must say I really like this comment, When D1 I voted semi early on Vayne, which was definetly not a bustarget at that moment, and you came in late and "parked" your vote on the popular lynch target.
- - - - So basically I agree with LSB's reads, which makes me not really want to lynch him at the moment. I think I'd prefer Artanis, sidesprang or purple. Specifically Artanis and sidesprang look bad. How many players would be willing to lynch Artanis? Or sidesprang or purple? Your vote on VA is pretty much the definition of "parking" a vote. It had no meaning, you didn't push him, it just sat there without any use. And you still haven't done anything to push a vote today either. Are you planning to? Fair enough (about the JarJar read). Well, it's true that my stance on LSB is a bit similar to your stance on Corazon. However, it's much more worrying in your case, since you haven't really done anything else besides that. Or you have posted some reads, but you haven't impacted the game in any way. You've just defended yourself a bit and posted a couple of reads. If VA didn't exist, who would you want to lynch? How did my vote on VA not have a meaning D1, he almost got lynched! Then suddenly there was a huge shift onto spag with like less than 1h left of the day. I posted my thoughts about how the votes went down, and I think a VA lynch can give us some good leads. If VA was not in the game, and all connections to him dont exsist. I would most likely go for purp, tho some of my reasonings for him is also him defending vayne, so cant say that for certain. I would have read more into rayne, I really did not like how he handled the plut thing, but when I read his filter I did not really find anything more. And if nothing of those panned out I would prolly vote for LSB. But now we're getting way further than I can predict
This is all you posted regarding VA during D1....
On December 11 2013 21:57 sidesprang wrote:
VayneAuthority: Seems to have very little content, and frankly not even a desire to hunt scum at all. I got the impression that he was an experienced mafia player and would thus expect more of him. He is basically tunnelvisioning on the easiest target and dont really provide much outside of that. He said he was memory banking stuff and would come back later day 1. I hope he will provide something else than just slam before the day is over.
##Vote VayneAuthority
Do you really think your post or vote had any meaning during D1? It could have as well been some random unidentified ability vote or something....
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On December 14 2013 22:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why does everyone keep saying i did something wrong with Plutarch but noone is willing to explain what's wrong in it?
I think I already explained this earlier.
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On December 14 2013 22:41 sidesprang wrote:My reasons for voting on Vayne D1: He does nothing, tunnelvisions on slam, the easiest safest target to go on in the start. Just a policy lynch, if it goes through it dont tell us anything about Vayne regardless of how it flips. N1: Tells us day 2 is when the real game will start. D2: Does nothing despite the real game having started, goes on the easiest safest target to go on again LSB. Dont provide any insight. Is more disruptive than helpfull to the town. That is why I wanna lynch Vayne. He is like an Day 1 Alakaslam just without speaking in code. The fact that If we lynch him we can learn from his flip, is just a bonus. If you read my filter and put the pieces togheter you could have seen this. But I guess I also could have put this case togheter when making the vote. Did not really take me that long
I won't disagree on the issue of VA being unhelpful, but I think he's more likely town at the moment. And I'd rather lynch scum.
By the way, how is LSB's flip uninformative? I'm actually starting to think that it could be one of the most informative lynches out there. For example, his scum flip would put Artanis in a worse light, and overall this LSB wagon would be neat to analyze if he flips scum (also if he flips town, but to a lesser extent). There's been some decent resistance/counter-pushing to it.
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On December 14 2013 23:01 kushm4sta wrote:
where do i find who xatalos is currently voting for??
Artanis, why?
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But actually, yeah, LSB would be decent. I'm content with that for today. It should also shed some more light on Artanis.
##Unvote
##Vote LSB
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On December 14 2013 23:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Xatalos can you give me a recap of your current case on Artanis?
Simply put:
1) Illogical stance on me/Corazon at the start (I was scummy since I was - intentionally! - grabbing attention, yet Corazon was town for - unintentionally! - grabbing attention)
2) Scummy bandwagon vote on Spag
3) Weak case on me that painted me as scum for null/towny traits
4) Overall lazy and illogical play
5) Potentially a connection with LSB (?)
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AFK for a bit, but I'll be back ASAP.
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What's the situation here? I have no idea who has voted who and who's even leading in votes atm.
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Is purple a possible lynch right now? He could be a decent option as well.
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Definitely LSB over VA though.
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I seriously doubt XigXag/purple is lynchable atm. And LSB is more scummy than either of those (+ he has a potential connection with Artanis).
Why is XigXag scummy anyways?
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I mean, XigXag made several good posts (although he's been pretty lurking).
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On December 15 2013 05:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Okay let's do shennanies.
##Unvote
##Vote: Purpletrator
Hmmm...
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Lol it's happening. Okay then.
##Unvote
##Vote purpletrator
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It's between purple and VA now, Alakaslam.
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LOL nice. This at least means rayn has to be town.
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On December 15 2013 06:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 06:06 Xatalos wrote:
LOL nice. This at least means rayn has to be town. And me for bringing up Purple when Rayn wanted to lynch Xigxag. Only false if Xigxag is also scum.
Hmmmmmm......
It's pretty hard to believe you'd do that as scum.
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On December 15 2013 06:11 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 05:53 Xatalos wrote:On December 15 2013 05:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Okay let's do shennanies.
##Unvote
##Vote: Purpletrator Hmmm... Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 05:55 Xatalos wrote:
Lol it's happening. Okay then.
##Unvote
##Vote purpletrator Second time he has done this lol.
purple lynch was a good option, I just didn't think it was possible until Plutarch went for it.
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On December 15 2013 06:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 06:12 Xatalos wrote:On December 15 2013 06:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 15 2013 06:06 Xatalos wrote:
LOL nice. This at least means rayn has to be town. And me for bringing up Purple when Rayn wanted to lynch Xigxag. Only false if Xigxag is also scum. Hmmmmmm...... It's pretty hard to believe you'd do that as scum. If you think it'd be hard to believe for me to redirect a lynch onto a scum purple if I'm scum, and you think I'm scum, why did you vote for Purpletrator?
It was between purple and VA though. It was a pretty clear choice.
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On December 15 2013 06:20 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 06:13 Xatalos wrote:On December 15 2013 06:11 Grackaroni wrote:On December 15 2013 05:53 Xatalos wrote:On December 15 2013 05:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Okay let's do shennanies.
##Unvote
##Vote: Purpletrator Hmmm... On December 15 2013 05:55 Xatalos wrote:
Lol it's happening. Okay then.
##Unvote
##Vote purpletrator Second time he has done this lol. purple lynch was a good option, I just didn't think it was possible until Plutarch went for it. I'm referring to you thinking Artanis is scum all game long. Seeing him vote for purp, and then voting for purple anyway.
On December 15 2013 06:16 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 06:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 15 2013 06:12 Xatalos wrote:On December 15 2013 06:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 15 2013 06:06 Xatalos wrote:
LOL nice. This at least means rayn has to be town. And me for bringing up Purple when Rayn wanted to lynch Xigxag. Only false if Xigxag is also scum. Hmmmmmm...... It's pretty hard to believe you'd do that as scum. If you think it'd be hard to believe for me to redirect a lynch onto a scum purple if I'm scum, and you think I'm scum, why did you vote for Purpletrator? It was between purple and VA though. It was a pretty clear choice.
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I just can't believe Artanis would do that as scum. But he could still be SK..... Although in that case he couldn't be teamed with LSB. And anyways, it seems somewhat unlikely that purple and LSB are teamed.
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Probably Grackaroni and Alakaslam look worst for this lynch... And the AFK people.
Towniest people from it are definitely rayn, Plutarch and Artanis. It's mind-boggling, but I see no reason for Artanis as scum to force a bus on purple like that. Maybe some really next-level play, but... Even SK is much more likely. And I doubt SK would care about the lynch too much.
I guess LSB isn't completely in the clear, although it's weird for purple to attack him in the beginning like that.
VA is pretty much town though. It's pretty hard to believe that the 2 top lynches were both scum.
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On December 15 2013 08:04 sidesprang wrote:
Only conclusion atm that i feel good about is that
IF vayne = town -> artanis = town.
Alakaslam deffo seem a bit wierd with how much he changed his vote and that late vote off from purp, but you can also see at one point he gave purple the lead. So it's a bit confusing why he would do that as scum.
Oh and BTW, Please feel free to double check it. Tho the count I have in the sheet do seem to make up to the same as the mods counted.
That's actually true too. If VA is scum, then Artanis most definitely can be scum. But I thought the chance of VA being scum was rather small, until this....
On December 15 2013 11:58 VayneAuthority wrote:
SK we will shoot blazinghand so don't shoot him aight, don't wanna overlap
Where he's basically aiding Mafia/SK regardless of his alignment. And there's absolutely no reason to do that as town...
I'll seriously facepalm in the postgame if he's town and posted this. It's not impossible, but it makes no sense at all. So maybe he's just scum/SK.
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Btw rayn, how would you say Artanis affected the purple lynch? I'm rereading through the events and I don't really see as big of an impact from him as I thought. Basically it seems to be mostly your own doing. Artanis did cause you to switch from XigXag to purple, but that's about it for his contribution to the lynch (besides his vote).
Obviously without Artanis's vote VA would have been lynched instead of purple, since it was only a matter of one vote in the end... Still, I'd say that
A) if VA is scum, Artanis has a very good chance of flipping scum
B) if VA is town/SK, Artanis has about an average chance of flipping scum (much less than if VA is scum, but it could still be a clever play by him)
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On December 15 2013 20:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 20:22 Xatalos wrote:
Btw rayn, how would you say Artanis affected the purple lynch? I'm rereading through the events and I don't really see as big of an impact from him as I thought. Basically it seems to be mostly your own doing. Artanis did cause you to switch from XigXag to purple, but that's about it for his contribution to the lynch (besides his vote).
Obviously without Artanis's vote VA would have been lynched instead of purple, since it was only a matter of one vote in the end... Still, I'd say that
A) if VA is scum, Artanis has a very good chance of flipping scum
B) if VA is town/SK, Artanis has about an average chance of flipping scum (much less than if VA is scum, but it could still be a clever play by him) As i said i think when i was able to convince Plutarch to join the purpletrator lynch i think it's reasonably to assume other people will join asewll so i don't really think the votes after that matter too much alignmentwise. Unless Vayne is town and the wagon is scumfree - which (both of them being true) i can't possibly believe.
I'm interested in the events before Plutarch joined the wagon. Would you say that Artanis caused you to start pushing for purple? He took credit for it, but did he actually change your mind?
It's a bit weird that scum would bus purple in that situation (him having less votes than VA) unless VA was also scum. If VA was scum, then it'd make a lot of sense, I guess.
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On December 15 2013 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:04 sidesprang wrote:
Only conclusion atm that i feel good about is that
IF vayne = town -> artanis = town.
Alakaslam deffo seem a bit wierd with how much he changed his vote and that late vote off from purp, but you can also see at one point he gave purple the lead. So it's a bit confusing why he would do that as scum.
Oh and BTW, Please feel free to double check it. Tho the count I have in the sheet do seem to make up to the same as the mods counted. Btw this is pretty weak considering he put a shitton amount of work in making the vote-switch-tally. Like he does all the work and then says "if vayne is town artanis is most likely too and idk about alakaslam"..
Yeah, that's a pretty weak result from the "big vote analysis"....
But what do you think of that result? I think it's pretty correct. If VA is scum, then Artanis is pretty likely as well. But it seems significantly less likely if VA is town. I also asked you a question about Artanis's behaviour earlier.
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On December 15 2013 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 21:55 Xatalos wrote:On December 15 2013 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 15 2013 08:04 sidesprang wrote:
Only conclusion atm that i feel good about is that
IF vayne = town -> artanis = town.
Alakaslam deffo seem a bit wierd with how much he changed his vote and that late vote off from purp, but you can also see at one point he gave purple the lead. So it's a bit confusing why he would do that as scum.
Oh and BTW, Please feel free to double check it. Tho the count I have in the sheet do seem to make up to the same as the mods counted. Btw this is pretty weak considering he put a shitton amount of work in making the vote-switch-tally. Like he does all the work and then says "if vayne is town artanis is most likely too and idk about alakaslam".. Yeah, that's a pretty weak result from the "big vote analysis".... But what do you think of that result? I think it's pretty correct. If VA is scum, then Artanis is pretty likely as well. But it seems significantly less likely if VA is town. I also asked you a question about Artanis's behaviour earlier. I think i answered it. Artanis did not affect me in voting for purple. In fact after i did vote for purple Artanis didn't seem like he wanted to lynch purple at all lol.
LOL. Well, maybe he's just scum then and messed that lynch up.
Did you see him claiming credit for the lynch right after though? It could be that he accidentally caused it to happen (by being a decisive vote among others) and tried to make the best out of the situation by exaggerating his contribution.
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On December 15 2013 21:49 Plutarch wrote:I just found something interesting. These are the only times Rayn mentioned purple AT ALL until purple became his direct counter wagon. Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 05:38 VayneAuthority wrote:
read my filter and you'll have all those answers except purple, who I don't know about yet Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 05:14 VayneAuthority wrote:
voting for purple at this point would just be committing suicide rayn, you would have to get more votes to even consder it. No one answered my question tho on why LSB support is dwindling when all he did was come back and vote me. Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 05:46 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 15 2013 05:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 15 2013 05:43 VayneAuthority wrote:
probably gonna get lynched, so yea please kill LSB, artanis, and maybe even JJD when I flip town since his tunnel is playing to his scum meta.
4th scum is probably some random llurker so don't really care You will not get lynched. I'll make sure of it. Now vote for purple, if the vote is not enough we switch to LSB. but purple is scum. that really is not an option, look at the voting. it would have to be LSB or XX and XX would be a shot in the dark 3 Times in 2 entire cylces. each time dissuading the town from trying to lynch purple. The, and this is important, Vayne votes Purple out of nowhere and only because purp is his direct counter wagon. Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 05:52 VayneAuthority wrote:
it's not going to do anything
##unvote
##vote: purple
im dead poretty much unless miracle Since then he mentions purple 15! times. in a pretty obvious bus. Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 05:59 VayneAuthority wrote:
alakaslam and purple are scum. Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 05:59 VayneAuthority wrote:
purple is 100% scum, some one help me out here Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 06:00 VayneAuthority wrote:
why did alakaslam and purple try to force kill me together? right after alakaslam said he wanted purple lynched Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 06:02 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 15 2013 05:54 Alakaslam wrote:On December 15 2013 05:52 JarJarDrinks wrote:
@Alakaslam what r u doing w/ ur vote? Making sure if it is equal between vayne and LSB it winds up being vayne. I would prefer purple and cig. and then you and purple vote to try and kill me. Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 06:08 VayneAuthority wrote:also rayn, i saw what you meant after I read this On December 12 2013 02:14 purpletrator wrote:
hey kush, why did/do you have me as green? good enough reason to vote him He does not give reasoning or provide evidence. He flips a switch and milks town cred. Then comes this post which states there are association tells galore (there really aren't) in an attempt to set up next lynch off the back of purples lynch Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 06:09 VayneAuthority wrote:
purple and LSB have association tells galore in his filter, I don't see why we don't lynch LSB too In summary Vayne mentions purple only 3! times up until the end of day 2, each time dissuading people from lynching purp. He then has to bus when they are direct counter wagons to each other and blatantly does so. Mentioning purp 15! times in minutes. Please lynch Vayne tomorrow.
Yeah, I agree on this mostly. It's pretty suspicious that VA is very reluctant to talk about / lynch purple until it's either him or purple, and suddenly purple is 100% scum. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a "not lynchable" -> 100% bus move.
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On the other hand, it's weird that the top 2 lynches would be scum. And there are other reasons that make VA less likely scum.
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On December 15 2013 23:03 Plutarch wrote:
I would like people to read grack's filter and tell me what they think in light of the flip today.
Grackaroni is definitely one of the most suspicious votes (if not the most suspicious). He was very unwilling to lynch purple.
Incidentally, his D1 vote was also one of the most scummy:
On December 12 2013 03:24 Grackaroni wrote:
Geez Vayne actually slipped lol. Un-lynchable scum record goodbye I will take pleasure in this.
##Unvote: Alakaslam
##Vote: VayneAuthority
I don't think it prevents Slam from being scum.
I don't think VA and Grackaroni are scum together, though. And Grackaroni is very scummy on his own rights.
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On December 15 2013 23:14 Plutarch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 23:10 Xatalos wrote:On December 15 2013 23:03 Plutarch wrote:
I would like people to read grack's filter and tell me what they think in light of the flip today. Grackaroni is definitely one of the most suspicious votes (if not the most suspicious). He was very unwilling to lynch purple. Incidentally, his D1 vote was also one of the most scummy: On December 12 2013 03:24 Grackaroni wrote:
Geez Vayne actually slipped lol. Un-lynchable scum record goodbye I will take pleasure in this.
##Unvote: Alakaslam
##Vote: VayneAuthority
I don't think it prevents Slam from being scum. I don't think VA and Grackaroni are scum together, though. And Grackaroni is very scummy on his own rights. Why don't you think they can be scum together?
Because he was very eager to jump on the VA bandwagon at the end of D1. Well, they *can*, but it's not very likely that they are IMO.
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Lol, I didn't know that loves to bus so much. Then it wouldn't be weird, I guess. Also.....
On December 10 2013 21:21 Grackaroni wrote:
Purple case is weak. You pretty much just made a case to show that he's clueless and all I had to do was look at his original accusation to find that out.
This doesn't look very good after purple's flip.
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Where do you get that I'd be SK...?
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On December 15 2013 23:38 Plutarch wrote:Basically you have sheeped me a lot. You talk a lot but are more likely to discuss things when lead/promtped. You have basically sheeped the strong townies all game. You have made good points etc. but not really seemed ultra invested in the outcome of lynches hence the sheeping of one or two townies most of the game. You aren't scummy but you are active and not townie. Basically it is really obvious.
Well, obviously I disagree... Do you think that my heavy pressure during D1 or individual pushes on several players (Artanis, Corazon...) are indicative of sheeping / not being that invested in who gets lynched?
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Personally I think LSB might be SK. He's been like... the player least invested in who gets lynched at all......
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On December 15 2013 23:51 Plutarch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 23:46 Xatalos wrote:On December 15 2013 23:38 Plutarch wrote:On December 15 2013 23:33 Xatalos wrote:
Where do you get that I'd be SK...? Basically you have sheeped me a lot. You talk a lot but are more likely to discuss things when lead/promtped. You have basically sheeped the strong townies all game. You have made good points etc. but not really seemed ultra invested in the outcome of lynches hence the sheeping of one or two townies most of the game. You aren't scummy but you are active and not townie. Basically it is really obvious. Well, obviously I disagree... Do you think that my heavy pressure during D1 or individual pushes on several players (Artanis, Corazon...) are indicative of sheeping / not being that invested in who gets lynched? Well that is like my whole point. You went through the motions and stuff with pressure and cases but at the end of the day you sheeped like crazy. Like it is so obvious to me that I'm not even calling you mafia. I am calling you SK and I am very very sure.
I'm not sure which game you played in with me, but usually I like to lynch together with my strong town reads if that's an option. Like in GoT Mafia, I sheeped Clarity a lot since I was 99% certain he was town. And iamperfection. If you're one of them then (LOL) you should at least know that I'm not the often super confident in my reads and I like to collaborate.
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On December 15 2013 23:59 kushm4sta wrote:
XATALOS StOP TAlking about past games... your blatant scumminess is pissing me off.
yes i caught you in my second newbie and i have caught you again.
Was purpletrator on your "game solved" scumlist?
I wouldn't be quick to trust your reads...
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On December 16 2013 00:00 Plutarch wrote:
Nah i'm better than clarity or perfection. Hue. Also meta won't sway me. I've been watching you for days. I am more sure you are SK than anything else.
Hah hah. Okay then. But you've played with me, so maybe WBG, Hapahauli, marvellosity or Acrofales.
Seems like you're set on me being SK, so I guess you'll just realize I'm town when I flip. Or maybe you'll be swayed by something else I do. Dunno. Hard to change your mind now when you're so confident.
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On December 16 2013 00:10 kushm4sta wrote:
case closed. yes first i own the smurfs then i own the scums.
Just like you owned the "town" purpletrator.
Is there any reason why you were away for the deadline happenings and came back after that to say you thought he was townie?
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On December 16 2013 00:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Xatalos how would you play if you were SK?
It's hard to say since I've never been SK... But definitely more passive/friendly than now. I've been making too many enemies for me to feel comfortable as SK, I think. I do agree on Plutarch's point that I would probably be somewhat sheepish, but I do that as town too, so.... It's not any big indicator IMO.
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On December 16 2013 01:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:Basically this is what i think, at least if you are town.
Do you think Plutarch is scum for this then? I really think he's just a misguided townie. He basically single-handedly enabled the purple lynch too.
Well I'm always relatively friendly, but I mean... I think I've been much more aggro than I would have been as SK. But who knows, it's hard to say.
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On December 16 2013 13:07 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 12:09 VayneAuthority wrote:
implying I care about the town or anything else besides surviving Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 12:16 VayneAuthority wrote:
nah, you are fucking trash at this game kid Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 12:19 VayneAuthority wrote:
You are basing a scumread off a joke I made you dumb cum dumpster. I'm sorry but we can't have this any longer. I explicitly warned you, and everyone in this thread, that these personal attacks have to stop. You have failed to do so and have blatantly stopped playing to your win condition, giving the assumption that you did not heed my previous warning, and leaving me no choice but to modkill you.
Please learn how to control your temper more. We're all here to have fun.
VayneAuthority the Civilian (Vanilla Townie) has been modkilled for insulting multiple players despite public warning for his and for others' actions in-thread.
There are 12 people remaining in the game. Day ends in .Show nested quote +
Inappropriate posts:
If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Flamewheel, or Mig before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally.
+ Show Spoiler +I was originally going to have BAN SKEWERING at the top of this, but I don't feel it's appropriate for this post.
This gives me a flashback to Mocsta from GoT.... Pro-town in a way, but pretty lame.
On December 17 2013 01:02 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 19:58 Xatalos wrote:On December 11 2013 19:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah i agree with that Xatalos.
##unvote The risk is that the Vigi(s) will just shoot someone else and Alakaslam will live to LYLO. That wouldn't be a good situation, since it's clearly difficult to say anything about his alignment. And he's being harmful to the discussion... But even so, I think he's such a likely Vigi shot that it's better to lynch someone else. purpletrator hasn't still posted, and the pressure on him has died almost completely. Hopefully he comes back soon. It'd be sad if he was scum and slipped away by just lurking. Hopefully bum has some explanations soon as well. This is understandable except now the vig shot has been wasted. Do you now feel I should be lynched? Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 20:15 Xatalos wrote:On December 11 2013 20:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Slam starts contributing in English or we lynch him.
purple starts contributing or we lynch him.
In case both of those do not happen one gets lynched other one vigged.
In case both of those happen we lynch the scummiest dude. I'd prefer lynching someone like Artanis or Corazon over Alakaslam. Anti-town/lurker lynches tend to be just giant bandwagons where nobody learns anything. Even if the coin-flip is a success and he flips scum, it doesn't tell almost anything about the voters/non-voters. It's easy to vote for a player like that no matter what alignment the player or his voter is... Rayne am I doing the bold? Is this why I am not being lynched? Town is just confusing me right now.
I thought you were a good Vigi shot during D1, but then you started contributing somewhat starting from N1... Would have still been better than HF lol. Anyways, I don't want to lynch you now. There are far, far better lynches.
I wonder though, why am I town for those posts?
- - -
Artanis felt more towny after he went for purple instead of VA (and now VA flipped town so it couldn't have even been a choice between two scum). I still think there's a good chance he flips Mafia, but I doubt that his lynch is happening today especially after how the purple lynch went down.
I think LSB is scum/SK, maybe more likely SK. Why? Because he's just coasting by and doesn't appear to care about anything that's happening. Plutarch seemed to think that he just doesn't care about the game at all - but I think he does, just not really about the thread. He's made sure to appear at specific times to quickly cast his vote or to talk about something irrelevant, but he seems to play just for himself, not for any greater purpose (town/scum). And if I'm right and he's SK, lynching him would also reduce anti-town KP by 1 and thus almost seal the deal.
##Vote LSB
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On December 17 2013 02:02 Alakaslam wrote:
Oh yeah
##Vote: xigxag
I think XigXag is just AFK and will get modkilled soon. If he comes back just to vote again, he's probably scum, but otherwise he's probably going to die to a modkill anyways.
LSB all the way!
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On December 17 2013 02:47 Blazinghand wrote:
Xigxag is obviously going to come back and vote to avoid being modkilled, we get rid of him now rather than at lylo. He's done it before, he'll do it again. Don't rely on the mods, do your own work. yada yada
##vote: xigxag
Does he do this as scum or as either alignment? If it's not alignment indicative, it's a coin-flip and we'd be better off reducing scum/SK.
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Right.. Don't you think that LSB has posted barely more than XigXag - and what LSB has posted has been way more suspicious?
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On December 17 2013 03:19 JarJarDrinks wrote:
@Xat - You really think all that Purple/LSB interaction was faked? LSB pushed really hard for Purps lynch.
Worth noting is that LSB voted for VA and didn't vote for purple, when it came to be between purple/VA. Especially considering that he didn't have VA as a red read, but he was after purple all game:
On December 12 2013 05:38 LSB wrote:
I filtered VA and I don't get the red read. If someone could link me a post explaining why you think he is scum I might rethink it.
That's really shady.
In case there's some IRL reason or something for not switching to purple, then he's just SK.
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On December 17 2013 03:34 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 03:14 Xatalos wrote:
Right.. Don't you think that LSB has posted barely more than XigXag - and what LSB has posted has been way more suspicious? LSB has posted much more than xigxag in the past day, though his activity is also low. I don't see how this is even remotely relevant though, since nothing is more suspicious than what XigXag is doing. You're either xcum and trying to protect your xcumbuddy or you're being blinded by the availability heuristic. The fact that LSB's post seem more suspicious is not relevant given that xigxag has actually not been posting. You can't say his posts are more suspicious than xigxag's have been, you just remember him posting more and therefore he sticks out in your mind. Get your HEAD IN THE GAME. If LSB seems scummy because he's at least making a trivial effort to play the game, THAT MEANS HE CAN BE ANALYZED. That means he is NOT our lynch for today. You're basically arguing that we should lynch LSB because he's a worse lynch. Come on man. COME ON.
I'd think that barely posting above the lurker definition, and being scummy in those few posts, is more scummy than not posting at all.......
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On December 17 2013 03:42 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 03:40 Xatalos wrote:On December 17 2013 03:34 Blazinghand wrote:On December 17 2013 03:14 Xatalos wrote:
Right.. Don't you think that LSB has posted barely more than XigXag - and what LSB has posted has been way more suspicious? LSB has posted much more than xigxag in the past day, though his activity is also low. I don't see how this is even remotely relevant though, since nothing is more suspicious than what XigXag is doing. You're either xcum and trying to protect your xcumbuddy or you're being blinded by the availability heuristic. The fact that LSB's post seem more suspicious is not relevant given that xigxag has actually not been posting. You can't say his posts are more suspicious than xigxag's have been, you just remember him posting more and therefore he sticks out in your mind. Get your HEAD IN THE GAME. If LSB seems scummy because he's at least making a trivial effort to play the game, THAT MEANS HE CAN BE ANALYZED. That means he is NOT our lynch for today. You're basically arguing that we should lynch LSB because he's a worse lynch. Come on man. COME ON. I'd think that barely posting above the lurker definition, and being scummy in those few posts, is more scummy than not posting at all....... Okay, great idea, let's not lynch xigxag i'm sure that will just work itself out.... oh wait no the opposite of that
Do you want LSB at LYLO either?
Though I agree that it's impossible to analyze XigXag, so it might be safer to lynch him now rather than at LYLO.
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Fine then. Let's see if he comes back to post now.
##Vote XigXag
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![[image loading]](http://s10.postimg.org/tet33yjdl/Baby_Seal_1.jpg)
Don't lunch me guys
GG
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On December 17 2013 20:33 sidesprang wrote:If i was legitimatly 50/50 on a guy right now, that seal might had won me over
It's not too late to change your mind!
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On December 17 2013 20:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 03:02 Blazinghand wrote:
unless someone LITERALLY claims scum, i'm not voting anyone else.
I think we just met your criteria!
I didn't literally claim yet
You'll see when I flip
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On December 17 2013 21:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 21:00 Xatalos wrote:On December 17 2013 20:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 17 2013 03:02 Blazinghand wrote:
unless someone LITERALLY claims scum, i'm not voting anyone else.
I think we just met your criteria! I didn't literally claim yet You'll see when I flip May I ask for your reasoning to vote on yourself then?
bumatlarge did that too during D1, yet nobody called him scum for it 
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Btw SK, we kill Plutarch tonight, so please kill rayn
Town wins if they live
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On December 17 2013 21:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Wait did you claim scum or SK?
##Unvote:
##Vote: Xatalos
Make a guess?
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On December 17 2013 21:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah i just saw your post. Who did you guys shoot on N1 and N2?
You'd love to know that wouldn't you
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On December 17 2013 21:59 Plutarch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 21:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And why would you want me copped if you "know" i am the SK? Why not cop scum instead? You also "knew" Xatalos is SK... He was scum though. So close enough :D seriously just forget about it so we can be productive for a while.
So close and yet so far
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On December 17 2013 22:11 Plutarch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 21:48 Plutarch wrote:On December 17 2013 21:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah i just saw your post. Who did you guys shoot on N1 and N2? Plutarch and Plutarch. Hey Xatalos. Is this on the money or what? Hue.
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On December 17 2013 22:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Plutarch that's really bad because i can't say anything else than if i die and Plutarch does not kill him because he is SK. That's so unbelieveably stupid what you are doing now.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aMVe4FP.jpg)
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On December 17 2013 22:45 Plutarch wrote:
Lynch grack tomorrow. Then lynch slam. Then cop can claim.
Let's respect the dying man's last wish
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Although you should probably respect my wishes first since I'm dying 24h sooner?
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On December 17 2013 22:19 Plutarch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 22:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:Like this is the votecount at that time: Xatalos (5): Artanis[Xp], Plutarch, LSB, JarJarDrinks, sidesprang
xigxag (3): Alakaslam, Blazinghand, Xatalos
NOT VOTING: Grackaroni, xigxag, raynpelikoneet,
I think this means there were a lot of townies on his wagon. you had expressed suspicion on him, and they had not enough thread presence to beat both you and I in swaying the outcome of the lynch.
implying I care about my team or anything else besides having some fun
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On December 17 2013 23:35 Plutarch wrote:
You know what could be really funny. A 3rd medic.
You know what would be *really* OP? A 3rd Medic
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On December 17 2013 23:29 Plutarch wrote:
I hope everyone correctly ignores the wifom spewing from xatalos at this point in time. And here I was thinking he was going out with grace and dignity.
You hurt my feelings. I thought you were enjoying the bits of trustworthy information I was posting?
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On December 18 2013 00:15 Plutarch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 00:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:You basically can't be that confident because Xatalos claimed scum. I would happily lynch JJD over xatalos today.
Trolololol
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On December 18 2013 00:30 Grackaroni wrote:
What's going on?
All these misguided people want to lunch me
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On December 18 2013 00:34 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 00:33 Xatalos wrote:On December 18 2013 00:30 Grackaroni wrote:
What's going on? All these misguided people want to lunch me Wat. I thought they would be voting me.
Let's continue in ObsQT after next lynch
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On December 18 2013 00:42 Plutarch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 00:38 JarJarDrinks wrote:On December 18 2013 00:24 Plutarch wrote:On December 18 2013 00:22 JarJarDrinks wrote:On December 18 2013 00:13 Plutarch wrote:On December 18 2013 00:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:I don't think JJD would have been so vocal about asking the hosts if scum could have hit HF aswell if he was mafia. This is also interesting and could implicate SK: On December 15 2013 06:12 JarJarDrinks wrote:
K, guess I was wrong about vayne. No way that was a 2 scum race.
Slam looks pretty terrible after trying to vote snipe. I think Grack looks pretty bad too wasting his vote when he was clearly here.
Rayn and Plu obv town. Post all Ur reads tonight since one of u is prob gonna die. Why does he assume one of us is going to die on N2, the medic was dead and there was no reason to assume 2 medics. Cause he is thinking in terms of having one KP and he is going to hit one of the towniest members cause he is scum. He doesn;t know who SK is going to hit. because SK may not want to hit town at that point. Rayn. JJD is mafia. 100% I'm confused. How is it not incredibly obvious that scum is gonna go after one of you 2? I don't understand how this indicates a scum mindset. It doesn't. all the other things I have posted make you confirmed scum though. Lol, scum not mentioning me? Well how the hell can I defend myself from that? You can't. You made a case on Xatalos and he does not mention you despite that. You don't mention or push xatalos despite making a case on him day one. You haven't done any serious scum hunting or made concerted pushes all game despite having decent activity. You are 100% without a doubt scum.
JJD is so scummy.
You happy now?
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LOL if Plutarch is SK
I doubt it though
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This is what Mafia is all about. WIFOM and drama everywhere. I'm glad I claimed.
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Although if Plutarch isn't SK then why isn't he willing to lynch Grack? Whatever, it'll be resolved with the night actions
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On December 18 2013 04:34 Plutarch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 04:32 Xatalos wrote:
Although if Plutarch isn't SK then why isn't he willing to lynch Grack? Whatever, it'll be resolved with the night actions What? clearly I want to lynch grack. There is no point switching from one mafia everyone is sure of to another I am only sure of. Not worth the sure thing lynch. Your scum buddy JJD made the same stupid argument. lel.
The difference is that if Grack actually is Cop, you're screwed if he flips? I'm a bit puzzled by your preference to lynch me... whatever
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##Unvote
##Vote Plutarch
Let's lynch the SK guys!
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All hop into the Plutarch wagon!
100% anti-town guaranteed!
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On December 18 2013 04:41 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 04:40 Plutarch wrote:On December 18 2013 04:39 Grackaroni wrote:On December 18 2013 04:38 Plutarch wrote:On December 18 2013 04:35 Xatalos wrote:On December 18 2013 04:34 Plutarch wrote:On December 18 2013 04:32 Xatalos wrote:
Although if Plutarch isn't SK then why isn't he willing to lynch Grack? Whatever, it'll be resolved with the night actions What? clearly I want to lynch grack. There is no point switching from one mafia everyone is sure of to another I am only sure of. Not worth the sure thing lynch. Your scum buddy JJD made the same stupid argument. lel. The difference is that if Grack actually is Cop, you're screwed if he flips? I'm a bit puzzled by your preference to lynch me... whatever lel look at the scum team come together to try and take me down. How adorable and futile. I'm pretty sure I'm voting Xatalos lol. And I tried to kill him yesterday too. And yet he and JJD are trying to discredit me as much as possible. Cute. I don't know what Xatalos is doing. Scum should want the SK alive and try to lynch me instead.
Actually that's true.
##Unvote
##Vote Grackaroni
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On December 18 2013 04:48 Plutarch wrote:You trying to be hapa is cute. Did you play in Liquid City? I forget.
No, and that wasn't a quote. Earlier I quoted VA's "scumclaim" though
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On December 18 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
JJD you have yet to answer, who do you want to lynch today?
Plutarch?
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On December 18 2013 04:55 Plutarch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 04:51 Xatalos wrote:On December 18 2013 04:48 Plutarch wrote:On December 18 2013 04:46 Xatalos wrote:
I blame OP Medics
GG You trying to be hapa is cute. Did you play in Liquid City? I forget. No, and that wasn't a quote. Earlier I quoted VA's "scumclaim" though Oh really. The seal thing came from Liquid City when hapa was confirmed scum due to a paramedic. T own got two. The first got marv, the second hapa. Naturally the entire scum team complained about OP paramedics. So when you said OP medics along with the seal thing I thought Liquid City.
The seal picture is from here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423047¤tpage=99#1969
Dunno about the OP Medic thing, just popped into my mind
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Plutarch - is he the SK? Stay tuned and find out!
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On December 18 2013 05:52 Blazinghand wrote:
nah actually xat more likely to flip scum and he did claim scum
I guess he's the better policy lynch
![[image loading]](https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRmIquKVSKO1LtmX7zPBLU8-QklU1B3ZYCrFMHqMeD9Hyk7Xuz9Rg)
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So who do you think is SK Plutarch?
Weirdly enough you haven't talked about that at all in a long time?
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On December 18 2013 05:56 Blazinghand wrote:
what was wrong with my post
Maybe you should read it again
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GL HF! It was a fun ride!
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On December 18 2013 05:59 Blazinghand wrote:
in retrospect VA saved me probably. each faxtion thought he was the other and shooting me. big play.
??
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Oh wow, didn't expect sidesprang to be Cop. Were there even any breadcrumbs? Regardless, that was an interesting game Mistakes were made, but fun was had (especially after claiming scum :D).
And yeah purple, it can be dangerous to bus so strongly. I think it would have worked perfectly if you would have just played slightly less scummy As witnessed by the incredible towncred Artanis got from bussing you and me.
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On December 22 2013 18:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Rayn why didn't you adhere to our coordination? You were supposed to shoot Rayn
Rofl :D
And shooting Artanis of all people... Now that was just rude!
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Oh LOL, sidesprang actually checked Artanis.... In that case we would have lost even without rayn's shot. GG
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EPT
