EPTOr not entirely. As town he is capable of good play if he wants to, you just need to prod him into right direction by asking him to elaborate on right things. See 4 Persona mafia where when people showed him where to look at he was suddenly town MVP.
PYP: League of Legends Mafia - Page 89
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
Or not entirely. As town he is capable of good play if he wants to, you just need to prod him into right direction by asking him to elaborate on right things. See 4 Persona mafia where when people showed him where to look at he was suddenly town MVP. | ||
|
Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On December 03 2013 12:51 LSB wrote: Seriously? You seriously think the best way to make sure said KP isn't being thrown around is to let roles have free will over what to do? Last thing we need is a Heimerdinger getting two turrets out, or an Urgot making a focus fire on one champion an instakill. I have said time and time again that KP related roles should be claimed so they can be held accountable should they participate in suspicious actions. Okay, if you are vet/dt/medic you don't need to claim if you do not, but awnser this. Why shouldn't Vanilla Town Claim who they tried to pick or KP related roles claim the same? so how does this help town? Lets say everyone but vet/dt/medic's claim and there is suddenly huge kp somewhere and stuff. How do you know scum didnt fakeclaim something, YOU DONT KNOW JACK SHIT. And all it does is that it outs our blues so easy shots for scum. The only reason LSB is still pushing this is because if he backs off, he INSTANTLY gets lynched, at least like this some people MIGHT think he is for real. He isnt. Lynch him. | ||
|
OdinOfPergo
United States840 Posts
I'll look into the database tomorrow to get an idea of what you two mean but it seems really stupid to be doing this as town. My perspective at least. Either he's solid lynchbait (Which makes me look bad) or he's obv scum. | ||
|
geript
10024 Posts
On December 03 2013 12:48 Onegu wrote: Feeding my son and getting him ready for the day, he is handicapped so give me a bit. Sorry but I will catch up as soon as possible. I forgot about him. Hope he's doing well.  | ||
|
LSB
United States5171 Posts
Yeah I had to dig deep for examples but I don't like this explanation http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884&user=Kushm4sta is a filter from a previous mafia game. Of course I haven't played with him at all, but I just wanted to check that out | ||
|
raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
Does LSB's plan make him scum? No, because the plan is pro-town. Does LSB pursuing his plan make him scum? No, because it's pro-town. Does LSB talking about nothing but mass-claim make him scum? No, if you guys keep him talking only about it. Yes, if he won't do anything else when you stop calling him scum for his plan. | ||
|
OdinOfPergo
United States840 Posts
| ||
|
LSB
United States5171 Posts
On December 03 2013 12:54 Oatsmaster wrote: so how does this help town? Lets say everyone but vet/dt/medic's claim and there is suddenly huge kp somewhere and stuff. How do you know scum didnt fakeclaim something, YOU DONT KNOW JACK SHIT. And all it does is that it outs our blues so easy shots for scum. On December 03 2013 09:05 LSB wrote: I have read the rules, in fact I think you should go over the rules and abilities too as well as think for a bit before critiquing a plan. What mass claims seeks to accomplish is twofold. 1) Firstly to confirm claims and locations of dangerous roles. For example my role can potentially be dangerous if I abuse it too much. A massclaim allows me to verify that I hold onto the role. We can verify this threefold. First of all we can look at the position on the list, that is a piece of public information. Second of all we can compare how much damage people took. For example if I lied about my damage and instead say I did 800 damage each, people would easily be able to tell. Tonight when I verify my role people will be able to verify how much damage I do also. Thirdly there are tracker roles so we can verify claims that way 2) To check the abilities of said dangerous roles and make sure they are not abused. The classic example is my role. If I use it only to verify the fact that I have the role, it is only a few instance of 50 damage. However if I did not claim and just spent my time running around laughing like an idiot, I could easily do 250 damage a night. We are significantly checking mafia KP. Why we cannot accomplish these two objectives without a mass claim. This is because there are roles that augment anothers power. My role is very meaningless by itself. But if you add on abilities that allow me to do more damage than usual, suddenly my damage is multiplied by a ton. Without a mass role claim mafia can easily hide a huge amount of damage through disruptive roles and agumenting them confusing the town. We need to know what we are facing, and who is controlling what to account for that. Likewise without a role claim people could use their abilities with no fear, allowing mafia to have unchecked power. There is a huge accusation on Kurumi atm. What if Kurumi did not claim at all? and instead sat alone at night killing Koshi? This would be a serious problem and we would have no idea who was doing so much damage to an important role. | ||
|
LSB
United States5171 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:03 OdinOfPergo wrote: actually per a favor.. could someone link the last draft list page? I forget what page I saw it and I'd rather focus on filters and posting cases then wasting time hunting for it. Dunno if you are talking about this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436086¤tpage=85#1700 or this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436086¤tpage=31#606 | ||
|
OdinOfPergo
United States840 Posts
Let me explain in short words while (hopefully) someone pulls me a draft list page. Claiming the claim page is normally pro town in this scenario... The fact he's done little but it for 3 pages of filter is not town reading at all. Once or twice a phase for the town to keep track of.... Yes we are on the same page. More than that, as per has been explicit by his post... Well I feel like he's using this "pro town" excuse over... and over... and over.... and over... simply to make post. This reads scummy as hell to me. What better way to feign activity than via something townies are going to find annoying but protown via? What has he hadded to discussion? Nothing. When has he advanced town agenda? Never. What does the town have to gain per his posting the same thing a shit ton of times? Nothing. What is the town gaining from his Tryn pick? Umm other than gliding through a few other potential townies right now to prove the fact..... NOTHING. How are you going to use this ability vs scum now that you claimed it? OH YES SCUM BUDDIES LETS RALLY IN A LINE AROUND THE SELF CLAIMED TRYND. This. Is. Retarded. Logic. Actually screw the long winded case against him. I've thoroughly proven I can't "not" write short novels as cases. So to save time and give you guys my opinion... LSB is super scummy right now. If no one is going to get on a Kush vote I might at well move to this. ##Unvote ##Vote: LSB | ||
|
raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
I got the feeling your case against bumatlarge is the following; He made a plan he did not follow later on. In his plan he left himself outs for fakeclaiming another role if needed. That makes you think he is working with scum-agenda and ha hasn't explained himself in a townie manner. Am i correct? A couple of questions; Is there any way you think his actions might come from a townie? I mean, you don't need to give the right answers by answering me, just yes/no. Or are you convinced he is scum and won't change your mind whatever he says? I ask this because as scum i tend to make cases that are worded in a manner it does not leave the accusee any room for arguing against it. It's quite a powerful tool when any answer someone gives can be painted as "not reasonable". :p Also am i correct in the fact that atm you are threatening bumatlarge with shooting him until he dies unless he reasonably explains himself? | ||
|
Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
None of this stops mafia from fakeclaiming. There are too many roles that fuck with people and list position. | ||
|
OdinOfPergo
United States840 Posts
The only issue I have is the Moc/MZ issue that shit up the thread for a few.... Which yes feels feigned but I'm not decided. It seems really off comparing it to a "certain game" that I won't mention farther... but at the same time it's not leading me down a scummy road. Unless people can convince me that Jonny's not just busy the ONLY issue I have with him is the contradictory statement about lurkers and his RESPONSE per a lurker oriented question. I'm totally not going to lynch him right now. Still iffy on Oats but I re-read the last couple responses in his filter tonight and the only thing that makes me feel much better happened after I got back tonight. I could be trying to over read things but I'll decide that tomorrow. For now Oats, I'm going to label you as Null because I actually do need to come to a conclusion before I call you out for it. | ||
|
LSB
United States5171 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:21 Oatsmaster wrote: None of this stops mafia from fakeclaiming. There are too many roles that fuck with people and list position. I agree if not every townie with an ability to mess with position reveals their actions we would not be able to replicate what happens. This is why we need a mass roleclaim, this way we can verify any mafia fakeclaims as see what exactly happens at night. In addition without a mass claim trackers would be an almost useless role because what they see could be very well meaningless. Fakeclaims can be exposed, yes it takes some work, but finding contradictory actions are an easy way to pin down a mafia. | ||
|
OdinOfPergo
United States840 Posts
So if anyone has questions/opinions they'd like me to look into get them out in the air now. Otherwise I'll probably filter Geript/Oats. I don't feel good about Geript (Crowd consistence that you're a butt isn't good enough for me.) Oats I feel like I need to re-evaluate per happen stance tonight. I really like the draw to get me to pull into LSB though between you and Rayn. + points for you. Not clear but enough to hopefully give me a unbiased read through tomorrow. | ||
|
geript
10024 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:26 OdinOfPergo wrote: I really like the draw to get me to pull into LSB though between you and Rayn. Hunh. I have no clue what you mean here. | ||
|
Meapak_Ziphh
United States6788 Posts
On December 03 2013 12:51 LSB wrote: Seriously? You seriously think the best way to make sure said KP isn't being thrown around is to let roles have free will over what to do? Last thing we need is a Heimerdinger getting two turrets out, or an Urgot making a focus fire on one champion an instakill. I have said time and time again that KP related roles should be claimed so they can be held accountable should they participate in suspicious actions. Okay, if you are vet/dt/medic you don't need to claim if you do not, but awnser this. Why shouldn't Vanilla Town Claim who they tried to pick or KP related roles claim the same? This is complete fearmongering and speculation. | ||
|
OdinOfPergo
United States840 Posts
Not to giving anyone who's said this points yet... But per my opinion it really does seem since his "I'll freakin' lynch you" statement he hasn't even bothered to read the thread. He's been in-active for a long time now and I really hope he doesn't replace out because that would be really disappointing per my personal opinion of him. But that is irrelevant. Please play this game Guitar. I was pretty happy when I saw so many familiar faces here... And regardless of how bad this post makes me look I am REALLY saddened by the fact OWB, Nyx, and you are replacing out of it. | ||
|
OdinOfPergo
United States840 Posts
Thus points. | ||
|
OdinOfPergo
United States840 Posts
| ||
| ||
