|
@Balla24
On January 07 2014 18:34 Balla24 wrote:
"I'm fairly confident that we just saw the mafia run a bandwagon." - I don't really understand why you're going after the lurkers then? Why not directly go after the people with cases on dragoon (me, suki, jonnylaw)?
Why are you specifically asking me for a response here as well? What is your read on me? Scum or town, i can't tell. Seems like you're accusing me.
I don't mean that the lurking mafia led the bandwagon by making cases, I mean that they did the bandwagoning.
I wasn't accusing you. It was in response to
On January 07 2014 16:24 Balla24 wrote:
This is the most one sided lynch ever. I'm sorry but this should seriously be making you weary (suki/jonnylaw). The people who are not voting seem to also be tentatively saying that they are ok with the lynch if it were to happen now, besides Day_walker who probably is thinking along the same lines of this tbh.
I generally like your posts. I have you on town.
@TheChyz
On January 07 2014 18:35 TheChyz wrote:
The only problem I have with an dnyarri vote is that it won't really tell us much apart from what HIS alignment is, however somebody else as a lynch (like Dragoon for example), will help us gain some information on other players regardless of alignment.
Remember that dnyarri cast the first vote for theDragoon. If dnyarri flips scum, that gives us a huge amount of information about Dragoon (if you still think Dragoon is scum, you have to explain why the scum were bussing from the very first vote). And given how much of the recent conversation has been focused on people accusing Dragoon and him lashing out in defense, I think it would be good for us to be able to focus on other topics.
@Town
I want to make it clear that I'm not interested in policy-lynching lurkers. I'm interested in lynching specific lurkers who have contributed scummy posts and very little else, because I think they are more likely scum than Dragoon.
|
On January 07 2014 19:33 Derrida wrote:
@Anyone online, what do you think about Asuna, TheChyz, and BigDad not having an active vote?
Asuna has stated shed be fine lynching dragoon, so i count that as a vote. Chyz seems to be the only one weary of voting dragoon. BigDad also has been projecting his intention to lynch dragoon same as asuna I think.
|
I think we have the correct Day 1 lynch, I also think that everything that has been posted about the lynch since ~martyr post has been completely superfluous and should not be read into regardless of what colour theDragoon flips. The day basically ends there in my mind.
|
@DW you specifically said something like 'I believe we saw Mafia run a bandwagon' so by that you meant they hopped on the bandwagon and not that they led the bandwagon?
|
I also think that this discussion about lurkers is outrageously counterproductive and gives (or is) a great scum distancing ploy so please drop it.
|
@Balla, once again,
will you wake up before the vote deadline or is your vote final?
|
On January 07 2014 15:41 Day_Walker wrote:
I don't like the lynch on theDragoon.
I'll give my reasoning in a bit, but I want hear more from Dragoon first.
Please explain more. You have since said you don't think you need to but I didn't really understand that. You are very adamant that dragoon is going to flip town, why? What has he done that makes him so town to you?
|
On January 07 2014 19:48 Derrida wrote:@Balla, once again,
ya I'll be here hopefully long before that
|
Derrida I think you may have missed me asking for you to go back and read my posts on pg20 (your grand entrance), because you did not post responses to some of the concerns I brought up, I will quote them, hold on... shit is too hard on mobile 
|
On January 07 2014 03:20 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 03:07 Derrida wrote:
TheChyz: responded exactly the way I would to Balla's initial aggressively-active attitude, so he didn't ring any alarm bells for me. Came through as a skeptic that got bandwagoned really hard for no tangible reason. Alert level: GREEN
So what do you make of his claims that it was a ploy to catch band-wagoners? He responded exactly the way you would you say, which: 1. He has since retracted those statements against me saying he was trying to say something "trolly" 2. Lots of people have already called that initial response SCUMMY, which is why he was getting bandwagoned in the first place, so I ask you, whats your reasoning behind thinking that way?
|
On January 07 2014 03:32 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 03:07 Derrida wrote:
Balla24: initially looked suspiciously scummy with what I thought to be an over-the-top aggressive style that tries to win credibility. So far only suggested cracking down on lurkers, which is not necessarily an anti-scum policy as far as I understand. Looks like much talk no action to me, high activity does not presuppose him being a townie. Alert level: ORANGE
Ugh. Really sorry to keep harping on your post, but there are a LOT of holes, IMO. First off, you're doing the same thing Chyz was doing by putting words in my mouth (which again, he has since "retracted"). I didn't suggest cracking down on lurkers at all, I said I want to create an ENVIRONMENT where lurking is NOT a good strategy for scum, which I feel I have succeeded for the most part, that's why I keep insisting on having conversations etc... Secondly: You're really trying to say that's the ONLY thing I have done? Do you disagree with all my analysis of people or something which makes you write it off as fluff? I don't get it.
|
and with that, goodnight!!! <3
|
Im off too bed also, I'm going to have to go with either theDragoon or dnyarri.
I may not be awake when the lynch occurs, but if in the next few hours you guys decide to choose a lurker over theDragoon i'll place my vote on dnyarri so that it may be easier to secure a majority. Im happy for either of them to go as one looks scummy and the other isn't adding much at all.
[b]##Vote: dnyrarri
|
fml these html codes bone me:
##Vote:dnyarri
|
On January 07 2014 17:33 Day_Walker wrote:Ok Dragoon seems more or less done talking, and I want to hear Balla's take on my thoughts. Let's talk about lurkers. dnyarri+ Show Spoiler +Three total posts. I flagged his first post as potentially scum, and given his follpw-up it looks even worse to me now than it did then. His second post switches his lynch vote from TheChyz to Dragoon: On January 06 2014 23:43 dnyarri wrote:Actually I have changed my primary target of suspicion from TheChyz to TheDragoon mainly because of this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434723¤tpage=16#316TheDragoon stated that Day_Walker seemed like innocent even though Day_Walker had only posted one list and nothing else. Day_Walker's only vote is against TheChyz which doesn't mean much since TheChyz is easy bandwagoning target. TheDragoon's post give me the impression that he wants to slow voting down by defending (random) people while going to TheChyz-bandwagon and attacking nobody else. TheChyz is confusing but I'm not sure if it's carelessness or risk taking. My logic for calling him scum was somewhat faulted too I think. ##unvote ##vote: TheDragoon This feels like rather weak reasoning to me, and I'm not sure the part I bolded - which seems to be sharing his thought process from evidence to vote - even makes sense. On one hand, it's hard to call him a bandwagoner because he placed to first vote on Dragoon. On the other hand, between dnyarri's first and second post we had the IC retract his Chyz vote, and BigDad label me and Dragoon as scummy. The wind was definitely blowing away from Chyz and towards Dragoon before dnyarri changed his vote. Dnyarri's last post is fine, and I agree with a lot of the content, but it was prompted by an accusation by Balla of rehashing and not talking about enough people. A fine post, but one that was prompted, rather than spontaneous. Three posts the first day. Two of them are spent agreeing with Balla, the last one gives the consensus view of OWB and Chyz. Comes in late on the second day and drops this: On January 07 2014 10:44 sidesprang wrote:Been away most of the day sry. Skimming through the thread now. Came to this. Voting for yourself make it an autovote for me. If you are town please fight for your life, we have everything to gain. If town we will hopefully see it, if scum we will hopefully be more sure you are scum after your defence. ##Vote theDragoonShow nested quote +On January 07 2014 07:21 theDragoon wrote:On January 07 2014 07:11 Balla24 wrote:Eh, you are misjudging us if you think we're experienced players... we are just experienced with noob games  But rest assured, if you're new we are and SHOULD be taking it into account... but explicitly stating "I AM NEW PLS DONT LYNCH ME MY READS MIGHT BE BAD" is NOT helpful whatsoever. Catch my drift? /offtopic:Yea i get it. I just felt like a lot of people look into my posts too much thinking there's some sort of link or slip or whatever when in reality i just don't know WTF I'm doing. /ontopic: I'm gonna ##Unvote onlywonderboy and ##Vote theDragoon. There's no way to get out of this mess, you're all really looking at the wrong guy. I guess without me fucking things up for the town, you'd be better off but this is going to be 2 down for mafia after the first night. I have to head out, I'll be on later. I'll be catching up for a bit, if anyone have any questions feel free to ask I'll be around for a bit. But gonna use some time catching up as a lot have been posted. What's this? An autovote that absolves him of any need to justify hopping on carriage #9 of the lynch train? How convenient. Any desire to make a substantive comment on the day that he missed? Apparently not. Here is my last post on him: On January 07 2014 11:41 Day_Walker wrote:
@Suki @Balla24
Here is my line of thinking on OBW:
After day 1, his filter had three posts. One cautionary comment about reading Balla, one good point about the IC and a promise to be a good townie, and one question about policy debates and scum hunting.
All fine things to post, and he gets some good feedback (e.g. my list). But these are also very safe posts, and that's all we get for the first 24 hours. I can read this as a scum thinking "great, said some things, got people to like me, now I can let them argue about Chyz for a day". This was the point at which I suggested OBW as a possible lynch target.
His posting for the next day starts with the first big reaction to the me + Dragoon scum pair idea that BigDad brought up, and then he basically rides that idea for the rest of the day.
So the meat of his contribution over the last two days is one read which I know (although Town doesn't) to be false, and it's a read that came served on a platter. From my perspective, OBW's actions makes a lot of sense as scum. I'll just add to this by noting that OWB placed vote #3 on Dragoon. I've said nothing about Dragoon's behavior. I don't think I have to. Based on the actions of other players, I'm fairly confident that we just saw the mafia run a bandwagon. I'm not dismissing the reads of suki and Jonny (the only two people who have made substantial arguments for lynching Dragoon). But if Dragoon is scum, we can get him later. He is at least willing to be around and talk with the Town. And most importantly, we have better lynch targets. I ordered the lurkers from most to least scummy, and I think that either dnyarri or sidesprang would make a solid lynch. ## Vote dnyarri
I just wanted to comment on this. I actually find this whole post suspicious regardless off theDragoon or dnyarri's alignment. Its basically a lot of nothing analysis which could all be deleted and replaced by 'I want to policy lynch lurkers'. The motive behind the whole post feels outrageously Mafia. I don't like it at all.
At no point is there anywhere near a strong case for 'better lynch targets'. I seriously do not like this post at all
|
@Balla's second question:
On January 07 2014 19:52 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 15:41 Day_Walker wrote:
I don't like the lynch on theDragoon.
I'll give my reasoning in a bit, but I want hear more from Dragoon first. Please explain more. You have since said you don't think you need to but I didn't really understand that. You are very adamant that dragoon is going to flip town, why? What has he done that makes him so town to you?
Judging by his actions, I don't have a strong read on Dragoon
The evidence against Dragoon looked very different to me than the rest of town. When people were talking about me and Dragoon as scum buddies, and then accusing us of trying to distance ourselves, I was the only townie who could read those posts and say "lol no". When Dragoon was defending himself against these accusation, I was the only townie who could read those posts and say "yup, this is 100% a guy defending himself against some false accusations". I think this in turn affected the weight I gave to other accusations against him. For example, I think most other people saw his snap OWB vote as scummy. Since I knew that OWB's scum-buddy accusation was false, I thought "well, I can't really tell if this is a frustrated townie lashing out or a cornered scum lashing out". The way Town has interacted with Dragoon over the last day has made it difficult for me to get a good read on him, because I'm not sure how to tell the difference between frustrated townie and cornered scum.
Judging by the entire game, I lean town for Dragoon.
This most heavily rests on my scum read for dnyarri, and the fact that dnyarri placed the very first for Dragoon. Based on the vote, I think it unlikely that both dnyarri AND Dragoon are scum, and this turns my scum read for dnyarri into a town read for Dragoon. And for the reasons I just gave, this sounds a lot more plausible to me than to any other townie.
@Balla's first question:
On January 07 2014 19:46 Balla24 wrote:
@DW you specifically said something like 'I believe we saw Mafia run a bandwagon' so by that you meant they hopped on the bandwagon and not that they led the bandwagon?
Let me try that again.
I saw two people that I suspect as scum, dnyarri and OWB, contribute early on in the Dragoon lynch (votes 1 and 3) for reasons that didn't look strong to me (again my take is different here, since I'm the only town who knows OWB's accusation was completely untrue). The Town was already suspicious of Dragoon, the lynch took off, and sidesprang capped it off with another scummy-feeling vote.
To summarize:
I am not adamant that Dragoon is town, although I suspect he is. I am adamant that dnyarri is a better lynch target.
I my read on Dragoon and the situation in general has been influenced by information available only to scum, me, and Dragoon, and I understand that the rest of Town may not share my views.
|
Can someone with some critical thinking skills PLEASE READ the my post quoting DW and this follow up (he can't have read my post before he replied like that 100%) from a DW mafia perspective and tell me that it doesnt all make sense?
##Unvote
##Vote: Day_Walker
|
Rationale being that whatever alignment theDragoon is (90% sure he is still scum) DW clearly knows otherwise he could not possibly draw these conclusions off a neutral read in my opinion.
Again with either Dragoon alignment this is a very solid mafia DW play
|
If i could lynch DW theDragoon and sidesprang now we would be in a mafia free game imo
|
On January 07 2014 19:47 chinstrap wrote:
I also think that this discussion about lurkers is outrageously counterproductive and gives (or is) a great scum distancing ploy so please drop it.
I hear you, but do you actively disagree with any of my lurker reads, particularly the one on dnyarri?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
