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Storr, just calling people sheep doesn't excuse you from suspicion.
But anyways, the main argument against you so far has been your uselessness, which you're only just starting to change by directly accusing nyx of being scum. There isn't that much room for original arguments when the target in question is just sitting around being not helpful.
Though I think I was the first/main one to say that your guiding the town rather than finding scum is scummy, since it should be much easier for scum to make some common-sense posts about town direction. And compared to other useless people, I think you're among the top because you've been making the most posts, meaning you're doing the most blending in and trying to seem helpful even when you weren't being very productive.
Anyways, now that you've actually called nyx scum I'll look into that and reevaluate you a bit.
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Overall, still can't tell if nyx is nooby or mafia.
I think nyx's lurking makes sense from a townie perspective since he gets shouted at for being bad just about every time he posts. Lurking is still bad.
I'm really not liking his lack of explanation whenever he's asked. (like why he thought I, E00e, Odin were scum in the first place)
On November 02 2013 14:36 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
right now i'm liking StorrZerg for scum.
few reasons:
1. vote has popular traction and is likely to take off without dividing town opinion
2. he's not as useful as he promised to be
3. if he's mafia, it'd be a good hit on a more experienced player. if he isn't, then ):
i'd like to hear some impassioned defense by StorrZerg if possible.
His post here isn't that bad, I think. Point one is probably based on the fact that he doesn't want to cause chaos and wants town to be united. Point two is kinda true, at least in that Storr wasn't being useful. Don't remember if there were a lot of promises to improve. Point three, yeah it's good to kill an experienced player if he's mafia. Sounds like some attempt at finding scum, even if he isn't good enough to find mafia without them being pointed out to him first.
I'm uncertain about lynching him, since he hasn't been the only one who hasn't made good posts (first to come to mind is July).
As for you Storr... the nyx case seems to be based purely on the bad posts he made against you. Sensible thing to do, but it doesn't change the fact that just about the only people you've talked about are the people you were directly asked about or the people who've made posts about you. Plus imo it took way too long to prod you into finding scum.
Basically, the nyx post doesn't do that much to change my opinion of you (though if you're wondering, it's improved). Not sure what you can do right now to completely clear yourself in my eyes. Well, I've said about everything I wanted about you. I'm happy with a lynch on you today, but if you avoid a lynch and continue being helpful I might seriously revise my thoughts on you.
Finally finished reading filters/typing that out, I'll get to the posts made since my last one.
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You haven't been inactive, you've been posting stuff... that's easy for scum to fake. Also, I don't buy that it's taken you almost five days since the game started to begin finding someone to accuse, even after all that prodding.
Your logic's starting to make sense to me, something still feels off though. I'll need more time to think over if it's my fallacy or yours. I read and think too slow...
nyx, please explain yourself when you post. One-liners with no explanation still aren't helpful.
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It seemed that you were at least partially defending yourself by calling your attackers sheep - as in, because they weren't the first to attack you their points are worth less. As long as we're clear that that isn't the case, we're good. Feel free to call others scummier for sheeping, but don't put down logic against just for that. tbh I think I'd follow your posts easier if you divided them into clear "defend yourself" and "attack scum" sections.
Still thinking about your other points...
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Addressing Storr:
On November 04 2013 03:20 StorrZerg wrote:Show nested quote +
But anyways, the main argument against you so far has been your uselessness, which you're only just starting to change by directly accusing nyx of being scum. There isn't that much room for original arguments when the target in question is just sitting around being not helpful.
Useless as a "scum tell" seems pretty ambiguous in this game. Sorry if the only way to be "Useful" in mafia is to say "your scum" yeah i call bull on that too. I assume the latter part is directed at me, for your inability to form your own opinions. I have posted a fair bit, and imo contributed far more than your making me out to be. So again, stop sheeping Cake. you just keep moving down and down.
I was kinda buying this for a while, but I can't say I agree with this much in the end. Yeah, you can do other things in mafia that are helpful, but nothing's on the same level as finding scum and accusing them imo. Town wins by killing the mafia.
Show nested quote +
Though I think I was the first/main one to say that your guiding the town rather than finding scum is scummy, since it should be much easier for scum to make some common-sense posts about town direction. And compared to other useless people, I think you're among the top because you've been making the most posts, meaning you're doing the most blending in and trying to seem helpful even when you weren't being very productive.
Sorry that im trying to actively contribute between doing other things? Honestly pushing common sense is a null tell. I'd do it as town, Scum, SK, Blue. W/e I do it in RL and Video mafia as well. Can't tell you how many times i've scene people go off on the wrong thing, or lynch the wrong person because the common sense wasn't pointed out.
Yup, you'd push your common sense as any alignment. So why not do something towny if you're town? I don't think you were so busy as to be unable to be town for so long after the game started, especially if you were able to post your common sense. Even Odin was able to form some opinions on people, and his rl looks like a total mess.
Yeah and the last part, your looking for something thats not even there. Not to mention that's a weak reason to lynch someone. Cake your basically saying "storr your trying hard, your not actually doing anything, there are other useless people not trying hard, but because your trying hard you should be lynched"
Do you see how stupid that sounds?
No, after some more thought, I don't think it's stupid after all. Simply not trying hard doesn't mean much in a newbie game when we have several people being lazy/weak posters. Trying hard to fake contribute is scummy.
Now, we can debate over whether or not you were fake contributing or actually contributing. I maintain that almost all your contributions throughout the game were "fake" and designed to make yourself look good rather than help town win. I'm not sure I can go into this part more than I already have.
Too many of your posts had gone by without you doing the most important thing: catch and push lynches on scum. Meanwhile, those posts would have been really easy for scum to make to look good; you yourself say that you'd make those posts regardless of alignment. You ended up following town on July day one, before going back to your common sense posts.
Now, you're pushing nyx. I had thought he was too nooby to tell if he's scum or just noob town. I'll admit, with his recent posts his lack of explanation is really grating on me. Regardless of his alignment I want more, though I'd imagine the mafia qt would shout at him to stop making posts lacking in reason? I am getting more comfortable with a lynch on him, though I think there's still too decent a chance that he's just being nooby. I like that you push him, though, and that you've stated a solid opinion now.
If you live, I hope you continue with that.
That said, ##Vote: StorrZerg
I'm not particularly inclined to give you more chances right now. I thought you were a decent lynch yesterday, but I decided to give you more chances to contribute since you seemed busy. Since then, though, you've only counter-attacked people who pushed you first. I still don't see much initiative to try and find mafia.
Oh, and to town for consolidation purposes: I'm also happy with a lynch on poofter. My argument with Storr kept me from updating my thoughts on him, though I think most of my old points still stand. owb and vonthin seemed to have done the most blending in out of people who haven't contributed much, so I think they're decent lynches.
I'm opposed to lynching nyx, as I don't understand him well enough imo. E00e seems to be posting the best out of the quiet-ish people, though I'll look more carefully into him if needed. Odin seems like a mostly solid poster and Balla's a very solid poster, definitely don't wanna lynch either today. Haven't had a chance to take a close look at Jonny, but he just seems frustrated at town for not helping him find scum.
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Storr: what I meant with the July thing is that your pressure with content came after others started pressuring him too. The initial vote was basically random, July had 0 posts along with a bunch of people at the time.
Anyways, I think how slow you've been to start forming solid opinions on people makes you seem scummy when you've been active the game since the start. That's my opinion on your earlier play, and I don't anticipate that changing. My overall opinion of you's only gonna change with your play from now on. But considering how much prodding it took to get you to post this much, I'd rather just lynch you. I think a townie would've been easier to persuade into producing more helpful posts.
To town: I won't repeat my arguments against poofter again, but I'm glad that we're looking at him for a lynch. I'd be onboard killing him. Vonthin wasn't as noticeable to me, and I got more of an impression that he's trying to help.
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##Unvote
##Vote: Tehpoofter
Alright, I'll switch to poofter. I've already posted just about everything I've thought about Storr, but it still doesn't look like I'm going to get a lynch on him today.
Update on my thoughts about poofter:
Spoiler is summary of my earlier reasons for suspecting him.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 01 2013 12:21 cakemanofdoom wrote:
I've thought poofter was scummy for a while, can we talk about him?
More recently, his votepost on July sounded too defensive to me. He harped on his own activity compared to July, which seems silly since you don't really have to defend inactivity claims when you can just start posting more consistently. On November 01 2013 13:04 cakemanofdoom wrote:
First thing about poofter was that he began attacking me by talking about the fact that I didn't address Balla. I think that's a really weak reason to attack, since Balla didn't bring up anything unique that would guarantee my lynch if I didn't address him. I think he posted that to sound like he's coming up with new stuff while just copying other people's opinions on me, the reasonable/easy target.
He talks more about real life than anyone else, as far as I can tell. I don't know why he felt that need, and I think such posts do little but excuse lurking.
Then, he mostly posts when people call him out, which sounded defensive to me. He never really volunteered his own reads, and in fact he primarily attacked people who had attacked him (me, Jonny, later July).
His latest defense/case against me, I really didn't like. His summary was, "So your end claim is that you think I'm scummy and am a reasonable lynch because I'm being logical, and pointing out your admittedly bad posts and I have talked about rl things early on. I think that line of logic I can't agree with. "
which obviously isn't what I said. I thought his posts weren't helpful despite being logical, and I didn't like the thing about Balla that he added to his attack on my bad posts. Seems like he's ignoring my actual points and attacking me like my concessions were the only thing I posted.
His biggest scumreads were on me and Jonny. I haven't liked his earlier cases on me. His latest point was, once again, defending his choice to post about his rl. Guess what? I still don't like people doing that. Plus I had other points, which he refused to address. And I'm not sure why he brought up that I repeated my points and called me scummy for that... I repeated because Van asked me for my thoughts on him.
My impression of his case on me is that he's just flat out being defensive, and trying to pick possibly weaker parts of my posts to make himself look better while ignoring anything he couldn't counter.
His case on Jonny was that Jonny tunneled on Odin. Weak case IMO, focusing is a good thing since being too scattered with accusations probably won't lead to anything being done.
Oh, and poofter's targets were still primarily people who attacked/seriously pushed him first. I don't like that, seems too defensive and like he's not trying to find scum on his own.
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Um what Jonny? Storr's right there lol, 2 posts before yours
Though personally I'd rather keep the vote on poofter, in case there's a replacement found or he pops in at the last moment to avoid a modkill.
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Not impossible for there to be a replacement though, and based on poofter's posts so far I think he's mafia.
If we do end up switching, I'd prefer Storr as you might expect. After that owb or vonthin I suppose, but I haven't compared the two that closely.
Wait, do we not have enough on poofter for a lynch right now?
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I thought we had 7 before Storr and Vonthin both switched off onto owb. Yeah, looks like no one's set to be lynched atm.
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Ah, I see that now. Sorry Storr.
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poofter do you have thoughts on other people? There should be 3 mafia so even if you're absolutely convinced Jonny and I are mafia there's another one out there.
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Hmm... I disagree that poofter switching off E00e was weird. People had already started switching off E00e by then, and also defending him. Considering the trend was to vote away from E00e at that point, I think poofter was just sheeping on what was seeming to become an easier lynch. That easy vote reasoning was probably random stuff he came up with to make himself look like he was thinking pro-town.
Plus July had voted for him at that point. Poofter seemed to like attacking people who attacked him.
So yeah, I still think Storr's scummy for all his earlier play and his later stuff doesn't help much. Trying to direct votes off poofter at the last minute is fishy to me, and stuff about the mod confirmation and "last minute" vote change could easily be scum gambits to look good after it was pretty clear that poofter was gonna get lynched.
Vonthin for following Storr on that jump off poofter is also looking bad, though this one I might be able to chalk up to being convinced by Storr? Ehh still fairly heavily the suspicious side.
Also, the fact that poofter was able to pop in at the very end to avoid a modkill makes me suspect that the mafia team might have planned from some point to get votes off him by having him stay quiet and make everyone else think that he'd die anyways.
Are we holding off on talking about Storr, etc. in order to be openminded? I'm up for that too, but I'll make it clear that Storr and to a slightly lesser degree Vonthin are my top suspects.
Will look into owb for now.
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Man... owb hasn't done much of anything. Plenty of posting how he thinks the game should be played, but not much forming opinions on specific people.
From what I can tell, he makes a few inconclusive reads, and then goes on to tunnel Vonthin for the rest of the game. Making some extra random posts here and there. His cases on Vonthin aren't bad, but if Vonthin's town then it could just be finding a lurker, deciding he's an easy target, and sticking with it to stay consistent.
On his own play alone... he looks scummy. I've said this before, but decided to revisit him since it's been a while, and now I realize he posted almost nothing since then. If there were more potential scum left I'd be very comfortable lynching him; still think he's a fairly reasonable lynch.
I'll get to looking at pairs when I find time to do so. It'll probably be sometime after day 3 starts.
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Balla can you explain the owb/odin pairing? I'm not sure I understood the arguments.
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Wait, what? I don't think owb has many opinions of his own, period. Plus I think odin can be easily forgettable, since it seems like there are long periods of time when Odin just can't be on.
Oh, and I disagree with the fact voting onto July rather than Odin was weird. Now that I look again, his vote came after July's statement explaining his crap reasons for voting poofter. Plus, Balla and Obzy had just switched onto Odin. I think it's very possible that poofter was sheeping the super-towny person as well as the confirmed town, or he was simply expecting the tide to turn based on that.
...yeah sorry, I'm not really convinced there's much reason to suspect Odin. His posts seem pretty good, especially after he stopped being so drunk/stressed. For a while I've kinda just assumed him town to focus on other people.
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Ah sorry, I misread. I was looking at poofter's second vote on July or something, which came after everyone started piling on July. You're right, that first vote looks strange.
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Wait no, that was Vonthin's vote which came right after one of poofter's posts. I fail at reading >.>
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Okay first thing Vonthin: please break up your paragraphs more. Actually, if you're here, can you reformat your paragraphs (split your larger paragraphs in your cases on owb/odin into 2-4 smaller ones each) before I read them? I get a bit of a headache trying to read them atm.
Nyx... I keep telling you, please explain yourself when you do stuff. You simply don't have credibility normally. Also, I'd like if you address previous points.
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EPT
