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Message GMarshal if you request a ban please ^_^
Also when the game you're sitting out is over!
~GMarshal |
On March 08 2014 09:11 WaveofShadow wrote:
Aquanim I'm curious, did you consider modkilling HF for talking about scum conceding like you instamodkilled geript?
No. I don't think I'd ever modkill someone for talking about scum conceding, it's just something I don't want discussed in the thread. Since as players you self-moderated that I saw no need to intervene at all.
Making threats about what you will do to someone in the future is against my behavioural rules, and on top of Geript's generally unpleasant behaviour for the rest of the game it warranted a modkill. He'd been warned for behaviour earlier in the game.
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Explain how saying someone's going to be a policy lynch/shot from now on is a threat.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
totally against this geript ban, frankly it's pretty ludicrous.
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On March 08 2014 09:18 Dandel Ion wrote:
gonna tell you the same thing people told me when i wanted igrok banned from hosting: you can't ban people from hosting
€: Not saying that would even be justified in this case
If anyone's going to be banned from hosting, maybe it should be the guy who claims he's willing to abuse host powers to satisfy his in-game disagreements with other players.
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You guys really do ban each other for the stupidest fucking reasons.
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On March 08 2014 09:23 Coagulation wrote:
You guys really do ban each other for the stupidest fucking reasons.
I'm really starting to come around to Coag's views on a lot of this banning stuff.
Geript was pretty unpleasant to play with this game to be sure, but honestly I didn't find anything he did ban-worthy.
Obviously under your specific rules it was, and so technically the ban is legit, but yeah....
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On March 08 2014 09:26 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 09:23 Coagulation wrote:
You guys really do ban each other for the stupidest fucking reasons. I'm really starting to come around to Coag's views on a lot of this banning stuff. Geript was pretty unpleasant to play with this game to be sure, but honestly I didn't find anything he did ban-worthy. Obviously under your specific rules it was, and so technically the ban is legit, but yeah....
If you (or Marv, or anybody else) finds my rules inappropriate, all you have to do is not play...
and being unpleasant and making the game unfun for everybody else is explicitly against Rule Number One of my OP
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
it's a totally incorrect application of the rules, or you don't understand what should be the spirit of your own rules.
what you banned him for:
1) saying he would do something to people if they were in his game, which they are not
2) saying he would policy lynch/shoot people, which is basically an entirely play & game-related comment and is in fact one of the politest ways of insulting someone. If you're reading "i'm going to policy lynch you in the future" as an out-of-game threat, then, simply enough, you're doing it very, very, very, very wrong.
Terrible.
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Aquanim are you 25yrs old?
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Aquanim you are overreacting and I can't see a world where that ban goes through, and even less of a world where geript would learn from it.
He'd just get more angry, bitter and/or salty.
It's pointless and I believe you should let it go.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
My personal opinion is that Geript saying he's gonna policy a guy from now on is perfectly acceptable. He could be lying, he could be not-lying, but it doesn't matter, just as previous games count for something (making meta cases) you can say "this kind of behavior is unacceptable from town, if you flip town i'm gonna be so mad! I'll policy lynch you and vig you at every chance, we can't trust you ever if you're a townie this game" etc etc.
There is a way this can cross a line though, and that would be if Geript and theChyz were both playing in 2 games at once, and Geript threatened in one game to vote or shoot theChyz in the other game. This would be a violation of the ongoing games talking rule. But that is not what happened. The second thing Geript wrote is imo more problematic, but again, theChyz isn't actually IN geript's game so geript isn't offering him out-of-game compensation or betting out-of-game things (which would be against the rules).
I personally would be hesitant to give geript a one-game ban for this behavior. The reason is that, despite what geript said and the fact that that interaction looks pretty bad, the threats he made were not REAL threats. There is no other game with theChyz and Geript, and theChyz is not in fact in Geript's game. That being said, they were still threats, and it's aqua's game.
I could see that this was a threat, and I don't think aqua was unjustified in modkilling geript. Those are some pretty dickish things to say, and aqua seems to have weird threat rules. That being said, telling people they're playing terribly and "if you flip town, i'm gonna policy lynch you forever" is a really common thing to do on TL Mafia. I believe geript was a dick, and he violated Aqua's rules for sure, so yeah modkill him. But what he said specifically about policy lynching going forward? That's totally normal for TL towns. It happens all the time.
If we're planning on banning for that as a behavior ban, then ok we can talk about that. But that's not what aqua is pushing for, he's pushing for a ban for violating a rule that from what I can tell, only he uses. If he wants to request a ban for geript's behavior, I will be glad to consider supporting that, but I do NOT support a ban for geript violating a rule that only aquanim uses.
Modkill all you want, though.
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On March 08 2014 09:30 marvellosity wrote:
it's a totally incorrect application of the rules, or you don't understand what should be the spirit of your own rules.
what you banned him for:
1) saying he would do something to people if they were in his game, which they are not
2) saying he would policy lynch/shoot people, which is basically an entirely play & game-related comment and is in fact one of the politest ways of insulting someone. If you're reading "i'm going to policy lynch you in the future" as an out-of-game threat, then, simply enough, you're doing it very, very, very, very wrong.
Terrible.
Well, you and I are going to have to disagree. Because:
"I'm totes gonna shoot/lynch you in any and every game I can from now on."
is an out-of-game threat as far as I'm concerned. From a PM he sent me:
"In no way did I say that was based on any of his actions. Perhaps if you read my posts you would see that. Just flat out policy lynch/shoot him because he's a dick."
Geript is NOT saying that he thinks Holyflare should be policy lynched/shot because he thinks Holyflare's town game is bad, he's threatening to policy Holyflare in future games simply because he doesn't like how Holy is playing in this one. And that is utterly unacceptable in my games.
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Aquanim I do understand what you're trying to do (and I was originally one of the supporters of harsher bans/updated mafia OP/respect for hosts and whatnot) but I do think this one might take it a little too far.
In any case I've said what I'm going to say on it, probs up to GMarsh now.
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On March 08 2014 09:21 marvellosity wrote:
totally against this geript ban, frankly it's pretty ludicrous.
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On March 08 2014 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
My personal opinion is that Geript saying he's gonna policy a guy from now on is perfectly acceptable. He could be lying, he could be not-lying, but it doesn't matter, just as previous games count for something (making meta cases) you can say "this kind of behavior is unacceptable from town, if you flip town i'm gonna be so mad! I'll policy lynch you and vig you at every chance, we can't trust you ever if you're a townie this game" etc etc.
There is a way this can cross a line though, and that would be if Geript and theChyz were both playing in 2 games at once, and Geript threatened in one game to vote or shoot theChyz in the other game. This would be a violation of the ongoing games talking rule. But that is not what happened. The second thing Geript wrote is imo more problematic, but again, theChyz isn't actually IN geript's game so geript isn't offering him out-of-game compensation or betting out-of-game things (which would be against the rules).
I personally would be hesitant to give geript a one-game ban for this behavior. The reason is that, despite what geript said and the fact that that interaction looks pretty bad, the threats he made were not REAL threats. There is no other game with theChyz and Geript, and theChyz is not in fact in Geript's game. That being said, they were still threats, and it's aqua's game.
I could see that this was a threat, and I don't think aqua was unjustified in modkilling geript. Those are some pretty dickish things to say, and aqua seems to have weird threat rules. That being said, telling people they're playing terribly and "if you flip town, i'm gonna policy lynch you forever" is a really common thing to do on TL Mafia. I believe geript was a dick, and he violated Aqua's rules for sure, so yeah modkill him. But what he said specifically about policy lynching going forward? That's totally normal for TL towns. It happens all the time.
If we're planning on banning for that as a behavior ban, then ok we can talk about that. But that's not what aqua is pushing for, he's pushing for a ban for violating a rule that from what I can tell, only he uses. If he wants to request a ban for geript's behavior, I will be glad to consider supporting that, but I do NOT support a ban for geript violating a rule that only aquanim uses.
Modkill all you want, though.
Well said imo.
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@Blazinghand:
It's a ban based on Geript's behaviour, but it is a method of defining unacceptable behavior that very few other people use.
If Geript had not been unpleasant to other players for the entirety of the game my viewpoint here might be somewhat different.
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he's threatening to policy Holyflare in future games simply because he doesn't like how Holy is playing in this one.
I can imagine a situation in which I'd want to say this to Kush or something quite easily. I really don't think this is something that should be modkilled for. Sometimes people simply deserve those things being said to them.
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Here is the best solution:
Geript will never play in an Aquanim game again. Seems like a win-win to me.
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On March 08 2014 09:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Here is the best solution:
Geript will never play in an Aquanim game again. Seems like a win-win to me.
Oh, that was happening anyway.
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On March 08 2014 09:21 marvellosity wrote:
totally against this geript ban, frankly it's pretty ludicrous.
I am unclear ion what you mean.
Do you regard the rules that geript signed up to play under ludicrous.
+ Show Spoiler +Unacceptable behaviours include:
Personal attacks (as in, attacking the person rather than the argument)
Unreasonable threats, either in-game or out-game (e.g. "Do as I say or I will spam up the thread for the rest of the game", "Do as I say or I'll get myself modkilled", "Do as I say or I'll kick you from the game I'm running", etc.)
Basically, posts which aren't about the current game
or are you saying it is ludicrous that geripts posts were considered to be outsides of the rules he signed up to play under.
Id really like to know because if i host game it will have similar rules.
Posts in the current game ought be about the current game.
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Addendum: "what should be the spirit of your own rules."
ahh you are of the opinion you tell host what their rules should mean.
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EPT
