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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
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phagga
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On August 07 2013 14:34 Mocsta wrote: I believe this game is now full house I look forward to phagga as the low hanging fruit I'm so gonna go bananas on you. Also, this ain't nomination mafia. | ||
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phagga
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On August 07 2013 15:58 geript wrote: VT Time to insta claim folks why do you want to insta claim? | ||
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phagga
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Why do you answer my question with a question? Seriously though, I don't see a reason to instaclaim until you have a decent plan that hinges on claiming. So far I'm not seeing how we benefit of giving out this information. Keep town on a need to know basis. | ||
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phagga
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And now you're fishing for my role, nice. | ||
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phagga
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On August 07 2013 16:12 geript wrote: Here let me spell it out for you because apparently you missed the obvious logic of it: We get 3 unlynchable claims = no worse than 33% win chance We get 1 unlynchabl claim = no worse than 25% win chance, but really since every VT will be able to recognize that only 1 unlynchable claim and therefore limit his scum hunting to 1 of 3 people which gives us good odds to find scum instead of jester We get 2 unlynchable claims = it gets tricky I have a plan for this specifically but it doesn't work if I explain it. As you can see, every situation of claiming is pro town. Not one single bad option. Ok, I have my own thoughts on this for later, but I guess it's worth a try. I'm VT. Which obviously means that at least one of you two is lying. | ||
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phagga
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phagga
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Should not be that hard to understand. What I think about the plans might influence what other people claim, so I don't want to post it now. | ||
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phagga
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On August 07 2013 17:23 Mocsta wrote: Hi guys I was going to copy and paste a post from the town/scum guessing game that ibthought was town.. but then figured the best way to claim was as follows + Show Spoiler + this is not alignment indicative..as I have yet to read my role pm Lola I don't get what you want to say. | ||
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phagga
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You're joking, right? | ||
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phagga
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phagga
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On August 07 2013 17:38 Mocsta wrote: Hmmm reminds me a lot of palmars game with a jester and no time limit. We have 3 vt claims in geript.oats.phagga so far. clearly someone is lying already. I'm inclined to think phagga 1. He's phagga and. Playing too serious for early game 2. He's phagga and. Hence. The low hanging fruit 3. He's phagga  You missed Hapas claim. And when have I ever not played seriously in the early game? I've been called out for being tryhard early game more than once. Ok, this is not what I expected to happen at all, although it makes sense for either not-town role to claim jester. What I'm more surprised is that the unlynchable did not claim yet. I suppose someone is holding back to draw out a fakeclaim? That did not really work though, as we have 4 claimed VTs and a jester now. Oats: Why are you so keen that I'd reveal my thoughts on the plan when geript was holding back on some explanation as well? | ||
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phagga
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phagga
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On August 07 2013 18:24 Mocsta wrote: so I was actually calling u jester lol.... ima horny and green so... everyone has claimed, pls post ya logic Oh. I feel stupid now.  basically there were some constellations that would confirm towns (3 claimed unlynchables / 2 claimed jesters / 1 claimed unlynchable), which is why I liked the idea of claiming, but I obviously could not say that back then. | ||
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phagga
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On August 07 2013 18:59 Mocsta wrote: so basically I held back from contributing to the thread to then spew rhetoric? hmmmm, j3stah, talk to me about the master of cereals do u think oats is town or scum? Uh what? Where did I say I'd hold back with contributing to the thread? I just said I did not want to publish my thoughts on geripts plan at that point, and it should be obvious why. regarding Oats, can't tell yet. I don't see anything alignement-indicative yet. What's your take on him? Also, what do you think of geripts plan? | ||
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phagga
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On August 07 2013 19:38 Mocsta wrote: (1) Well i find it ironic u held back, yet quoted something akin to Geript plan (2) Oats, hes typically spammy at start but usually has a purpose. I dunno .. from his limited posts so far I feel like hes trying to achieve nothing. Would like to see more from him. (3) I dont like the plan; mainly becuase I dont get it. What do u think of Geript plan? Considering u seem to agere with it?? can yoiu pleaes explain it to me. (1) Perhaps my post was just unclear? What I meant here is that I'm holding my thoughts on geripts plan back. Of course if I then later post them they look like geripts plan, because they are tied to his plan. Well, after he lined it out I thought the plan was ok. I was back then expecting the unlynchable to claim under any circumstance, although I see now why he doesn't (makes more sense to claim D2 if still alive). With that in mind, I expected the claims to give us some lead on who to lynch. At the same time I saw no real downside for town. Hence I thought the plan is worth trying out. Also, as I explained, I hoped that scum and/or jester might make a mistake with claiming, leading to confirmed townies. | ||
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phagga
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On August 07 2013 20:23 Oatsmaster wrote: 1) geript started it with a plan. within like 5 minutes of the game starting. I dunno, but I feel that its unlikely for scum to do that. 2) He had enough time to post 1 post. Its absolutely useless. I know no one claimed jester, I have no idea what phagga is saying about jester claiming jester or scum claiming jester. NO ONE WOULD DO THAT. Why? Because if you have 2 jesterclaims, you have to look scummier than the real jester. A bit difficult. And the jester will claim if scum claims jester I feel. So no one claims jester. In my usual early game eagerness I missunderstand Mocstas post as a jester claim, which it wasn't. My brain started to | ||
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phagga
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On August 07 2013 20:25 Oatsmaster wrote: Why were you adverse to claiming at the start phagga? Because I did not see any good reason in doing so. Why give out information if it doesn't benefit town? That's why I asked what geript had in mind. | ||
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phagga
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- Only you and geript had claimed at that point. If I would think that geripts plan was harmful, I would still have had a chance to stop the other two from claiming. But it looks kinda stupid if I just claim VT and then tell the others they should not claim for whatever reason. | ||
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phagga
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phagga
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On August 07 2013 20:54 Oatsmaster wrote: What? So you dont actually have a reason for not claiming. Huh. Why wont geript as town tell you the plan? Like I dont see why your actions would affect when he tells us the plan. Ego a bit large? I wrote my reasons for withholding the information, you just seem unable to understand them. Why do you know that geript is town? And again, why put out information about our roles into the thread if there is no benefit for town? That's why I first wanted to know what his plan is. | ||
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phagga
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On August 07 2013 21:14 Oatsmaster wrote: I think geript is town. You do too if you are town. Stop saying 'information'. Its not like scum doesnt know it already. Therefore you would only be telling town. And thats a good thing. Your reasons for withholding your role name, vt, dont make any sense. You wanted to make geript say something? is that right?. In short, yes. | ||
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phagga
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When geript asked everyone to claim, my reaction was not "oh well, claiming VT is useless information, I might as well claim". I thought "Why does he want everyone to claim? What's the ieea behind it?". And for that thought my own role was absolutely irrelevant. All I wanted is to know why he thinks it's a good idea to claim. Oats, what do you think of Mocsta so far? I'm at work and have a meeting in 30 minutes, need to prepare. Will be offline for a few hours. | ||
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phagga
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On August 07 2013 22:59 Mocsta wrote: 1. phagga is rubbing me the wrong way majorly. I dont like his response to me calling him a jester, and I don't like his reasonings for withholding "information" regarding claiming. - What do you not like about my reasoning? Please elaborate. - I hope you realise that my reaction to you calling me jester was mainly a product of me misinterpreting your statement. | ||
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phagga
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On August 07 2013 21:34 Oatsmaster wrote: I dunno about Mocsta. firmly null. Why do you think he wanted everyone to claim? What benefit does mass claiming have for scum? Again, when I asked for his plan I did not think that far. I really just tried to figure out what he wants to achieve with massclaiming. I just did not like the thought of needlessly putting out information if it does not benefit town. The benefits for scum? Mocsta mentioned it, there is the possibility that it makes it easier for them to pick a good NK. However, I did not think of that at the time. When I claimed, I could not think of a downside. Going on the train. My work day did not work out as planned, there is a high probability that I will not be online for the next 12 hours. | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Come on Hapa, show up man. Wait so you objected to Geript's plan WITHOUT THINKING OF A DOWNSIDE TO IT  ????? WHAT>>> ?? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?The reason I objected had to do with the fact hat I tried to figure out geripts intentions and that I think town should be kept on a need to know basis. | ||
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phagga
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 14:40 Blazinghand wrote: Rules clarification re: endgaming the jester A jester endgamed by the town loses. A jester endgamed by scum gets a "partial victory" This basically means we have to lynch scum D1. If we don't, we have to hope that scum hits the jester. If the jester survives the night, town is in an almost unwinnable position as it is not possible to get a majority on scum (1-1-1 or 2-1-1 if we lynch the unlynchable), since the jester will not vote scum with us (if he is able to properly identify the scum). | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 12:37 Mocsta wrote: sure. Phagga has a consistent vibe in his posts which is a plus. however I'm still struggling to get why he was hesitant to claim when he supported the plan . This seems more to do with paranoia considering He also admits to looking carefully for the lynchproof which falls into my mafia mindset criteria. Im not sure whether a jester would be playing this reckless either. So for now I'm willing to consider phagga as non jester....Maybe mafia though. I do feel phagga has not sufficiently addressed why he was hesitant to claim either whether talking to myself or oats. Phagga. The crux of my problem is. U agree with the lynchproof plan yet did not want to contribute to it?? I just don't understand how u could withhold that information if the key to the plans success in it eyes was to have information?? Seriously Mocsta, it's not hard to read my posts in chronological order. I'm sick of having to explain this over and over again, I've written enough about it to Oats. Read my filter. | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 15:39 Mocsta wrote: Phagga. I thought I explained my inability to comprehend your actions in some detail.. however u still choose not to change your approach... Lets try something new. Now that all 5 ppl have posted somewhat. Who do u think fits the mould of jester and goon. Do u think lynchproof is going to play the same way as a vt?. The lynchproof should play the same as VT, as if he's town he should be able to show that and therefore be in no danger of getting lynched. I can't say who's jester and who's goon, I think however that you are one of the anti-town forces. You are not trying to figure the game out, instead you ask me over and over again about my actions around the plan, and you ask things I've clearly answered already. U agree with the lynchproof plan yet did not want to contribute to it?? I just don't understand how u could withhold that information if the key to the plans success in it eyes was to have information?? I mean, this question is useless. I already explained I withheld my claim to get more info from geript about his plan, and after that deciced that the plan has it's merits and claimed. I've clearly written this, read my filter. On August 08 2013 12:45 Mocsta wrote: I think it is too haste to push a lynch with the current info. So far. My towniest read is oats though. So just need to figure out between hapa.geript. phagga which is jester which is mafia. If I was to have a punt now. I would pen hapa as jester.. mainly because of his reluctance to consider phagga as jester and he just feels off from the limited posts so far. Still want to pursue phagga first though. I don't understand why you can't follow up on both of us. Why this focus on me when you say yourself that something might be up with Hapa? we're not in a game with dozends of pages, it should be easy to follow two people at the same time. So yeah, I think you are either jester or scum. | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 16:04 Oatsmaster wrote: phagga, hapa more likely jester or scum? If I have to choose between the two, I'd say jester, because he reads me correctly. Scum would use the opportunity to further push me as lynch. | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 16:12 Mocsta wrote: So phagga. I can't vote for me. U gonna show some balls and start this? Why don't you push hapa if you think something is wrong with him? I vote when I feel sure I've found scum. | ||
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phagga
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Oats: you said earlier that Hapa and me are the anti-town forces. Why do you think Mocsta is town? | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 16:33 Mocsta wrote: U have a terrible penchant to misread. He thinks I'm antitown and if u read the quote he supplied that would be apparrent. That's the latest summary of reads I found of Oats: On August 08 2013 12:02 Oatsmaster wrote: This statment. Im town, phagga's town, geript's town. Oh wait. Hapa cant be town then. Yeah so phagga and hapa are the anti town factions. Which one is scum and which one is jester though. So much for missreading. | ||
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phagga
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What makes you feel his town? Can you elaborate a bit? Can you point to something? I wrote some posts up why I think Mocsta is not town because he's not trying to figure things out, what do you say about that? | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 16:47 Mocsta wrote: I wrote lol afterwards dude. When he wrote "this statement." I thought he shared hapa sentiment of me. Regardless. Here's a q for u phagga. U choose to outline me as scum. But then ask me to also chase hapa. Why r u being so reactive? If u had concerns with me or any others. Why r u not leading the charge to ascertain alignment? I choose to outline you as anti-town, not scum. Funny how you seemed to have missed that. I'm reactive because I'm at work currently, which means I have only short time frames to quickly answer/ask. I am trying to follow up on the people on which I want to flesh out my reads some more, which are mainly Hapa and Oats. On August 08 2013 17:29 Mocsta wrote: Phagga U do realise everything u have submitted in the thread is a +1 right? Ur idea of a good plan....+1 to geript Ur best scum lead.... +1 to hapa Ur scum justification...,+1 to hapa So if u want to use hapa logic so flippantly.. Is he a town read for u or not.... No, he is not, I don't know where to put him currently. That's why asked Hapa about you, I want to hear more from him. I hope to get some more quality time with this thread later to get some more questions out for him, as we seem to miss each other entirely due to timezones. | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 16:00 Hapahauli wrote: [/b]No, but a Jester won't necessarily reveal his/her hand this soon. You have to balance being scummy with being laughably obvious. Just because you don't understand my explanation doesn't mean I didn't explain it. As said twice before, there's simply no merit in having the unlynchable townie claim now. Why out a blue when we don't need to? He can claim at [i]any time. Best case scenario for town is to have him live to tomorrow and THEN claim. But if the unlynchable claims D2, both Jester and scum can counterclaim. Where is the advantage of claiming tomorrow against claiming today? | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 18:03 Mocsta wrote: firstly.. scum and anti town is the same thing.. but that is semantics and the last in shall speak on the matter secondly.. I am as time poor as u, am o ly on phone access yet that makes me scum and u a reactive "townie"... lol.. this is lol even before factoring your +1 contributions lastly.. how can u support a firm anti town/null reads "case" without adding anything additional of merit... I'm going to put it out there... did u change your position on hapa based on the jester rule clarification?? When I say anti-town I mean either scum or jester, since are both anti-town roles IMO. I also thought there was at least one other person using it the same way. I hope that cleares it up. Perhaps because I came to that conclusion by myself and Hapas read on you is not relevant for this? Where did I change my position on Hapa? And no, the jester rule clarification only made it clear for me that it is of upmost importance to lynch scum on D1, since if we misslynch or nolynch, we have to rely on either the jester or scum on D2. | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 18:25 phagga wrote: [/b]But if the unlynchable claims D2, both Jester and scum can counterclaim. Where is the advantage of claiming tomorrow against claiming today? Scrap that, I figured the answer out myself. With the rule clarification, Scum prefers a situation of 1-1-1 on D2 over a 2-1. If the unlynchable claims D1, he will get shot N1 because scum wants to make sure he hits town. | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 18:36 phagga wrote: [/b]Scrap that, I figured the answer out myself. With the rule clarification, Scum prefers a situation of 1-1-1 on D2 over a 2-1. If the unlynchable claims D1, he will get shot N1 because scum wants to make sure he hits town. No wait, that's not necessarily true. If its 1-1-1 scum has to rely on the jester, while the jester might try to get the win for himself. If it's 2-1 it's up completely to the scum, which he might prefer. Probably still a bad idea to claim unlynchable D1. | ||
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phagga
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Depending on the situation at the end of D1 scum might prefer either 1-1-1 or 2-1. Since we don't know what it will be, it's a bad idea for the unlynchable to claim. Whatever, best is to not let the game go to D2. | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 23:10 geript wrote: ##vote oatsmaster I'm sure you will also explain us why? And since you're here: On August 08 2013 05:41 geript wrote: On phagga. He looks like he's absolutely trying to get lynched. He just keeps on making these obvious non-towny sentiments in the thread. Why is this a non-townie sentiment. Please elaborate. | ||
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phagga
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Also, please answer these questions | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 23:41 Oatsmaster wrote: oh what. Cause mocsta playing the game man, longest filter I think, trying to find out shit. I disagree with you on that point btw. I dont think you gave a good reason for not claiming. And you keep repeating the same bad reason. No wonder Mocsta aint happy. Reasons for Hapa after Geript gives reasons for me. Although, Hapa not invested in this game at all, and I dont think he is jester. Mocsta's mainly all over me now, and I welcome that he's actually doing something now compared to yesterday. I'll look forward to his posts once he is off phone. Of course I repeat the same reason, because it's the ones I had for not claiming, lol. If you don't like the answer, perhaps you guys need to ask another question? I do agree that Hapa is not very invested, but why do you think that Hapa is not the jester? | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 14:58 Mocsta wrote: I suspect scum asked this question as i can't imagine town thinking about this.. I know I certainly didnt Why would you not think about that question as town? Do you think this information is not important for town? On August 08 2013 16:29 Mocsta wrote: Frankly I feel I have gone out of my way to express why I dont understand u.. and u keep backpedaling to your discourse with oats..that's shoddy to me and hence That's why I'm not interested in hapa currently. In fairness I'm restricted to phone posting at work . So I will make a deal with u. When I get home. I will summarise my grievance for u one last time via computer so I can quote etc I'm still not sure if you are really trying to figure me out, but you are talking to me, so let's try to get rid of this topic once and for all. I went back through your posts. I found the last you posted regarding your grievance is this (emphasis is mine in all following quotes): On August 08 2013 12:37 Mocsta wrote: sure. Phagga has a consistent vibe in his posts which is a plus. however I'm still struggling to get why he was hesitant to claim when he supported the plan . This seems more to do with paranoia considering He also admits to looking carefully for the lynchproof which falls into my mafia mindset criteria. Im not sure whether a jester would be playing this reckless either. So for now I'm willing to consider phagga as non jester....Maybe mafia though. I do feel phagga has not sufficiently addressed why he was hesitant to claim either whether talking to myself or oats. Phagga. The crux of my problem is. U agree with the lynchproof plan yet did not want to contribute to it?? I just don't understand how u could withhold that information if the key to the plans success in it eyes was to have information?? I thought I already answered these questions with the following post to Oats: On August 07 2013 21:26 phagga wrote: Yes, I do. When geript asked everyone to claim, my reaction was not "oh well, claiming VT is useless information, I might as well claim". I thought "Why does he want everyone to claim? What's the ieea behind it?". And for that thought my own role was absolutely irrelevant. All I wanted is to know why he thinks it's a good idea to claim. Oats, what do you think of Mocsta so far? I'm at work and have a meeting in 30 minutes, need to prepare. Will be offline for a few hours. And earlier to you: On August 07 2013 20:19 phagga wrote: (1) Perhaps my post was just unclear? What I meant here is that I'm holding my thoughts on geripts plan back. Of course if I then later post them they look like geripts plan, because they are tied to his plan. Well, after he lined it out I thought the plan was ok. I was back then expecting the unlynchable to claim under any circumstance, although I see now why he doesn't (makes more sense to claim D2 if still alive). With that in mind, I expected the claims to give us some lead on who to lynch. At the same time I saw no real downside for town. Hence I thought the plan is worth trying out. Also, as I explained, I hoped that scum and/or jester might make a mistake with claiming, leading to confirmed townies. I thought and still think that these two quotes answer your questions. If they don't please elaborate on what exactly is unclear. | ||
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phagga
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Jesters wincon is relevant to town because it influences towns behaviour in 1-1-1 on D2. With the new information it means that town is in an almost unwinnable situation. And I thought of that question too, but it got answered before I could ask it. So I disagree that a townie would not think of it | ||
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phagga
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Exhibit A1&2 My own thoughts revolved about confirming townies, something geript did not mention. You don't want to believe, fine. And you're surprised I had a rapid change of heart? Really? Do you remember nominations? Don't tell me I'm not doing stuff like this as town. finally, in your quote in Exhibit A-2 I was clearly not seeking the unlynchable, I wrote that I understood now why he would withhold from claiming which means I agreed with his action => not seeking him. Exhibt B Everyone claimed VT. 3 out of 4 people are lying, including one townie. What's the use of this? Second, you make it look like my whole play so far revolves around setup and plans, which is just not true. However, I do like to try to understand a setup as good as possible (which includes possible situations for D2, btw). http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=407704&user=phagga This is the first page of my filter of Dr. Who Mafia. Mostly setup talk. Yes, I do like figuring out setups. No, it does not make me scum. Exhibit C Eh, what? if 2 people have not claimed it is very well possible that both will claim non-VT-roles. you are using hindsight knowledge to criticize my actions, I couldn't *know* that you both would claim VTs. Exhibit D I don't have a problem with you quering my mentality. On August 08 2013 23:48 phagga wrote: Mocsta's mainly all over me now, and I welcome that he's actually doing something now compared to yesterday. I'll look forward to his posts once he is off phone. I even took the time to try to answer your questions again as good as I could. I don't have a problem with you attacking me, I have a problem how you did in the beginning. Also, Oats probed me alot as well, but he did it in a way that made me feel that he was really trying to figure me out. I did not get that feeling from your early play, hence my earlier scum/jester-read on you. Exhibit E Setup talk, see above. Generally I find the case to be pretty bad. What worries me most is that you focus on my comments regarding setup and plans, and ignore everything else. You're concentrating on me completely, which makes sense if you're town and think I'm scum. However, you misrepresented things I said a few times, which bothers me (claiming I changed my position on Hapa when I didn't, me saying your either jester or scum and you claiming I called you exclusively scum). It just feels like you are either not reading the game very carefully or try to make me look bad on purpose. You're either a townie blind from tunneling scum. Not sure which one it is yet. Hapa and Geript, I would like to hear your opinions on Mocstas case on me. Also, @Geript, On August 09 2013 00:01 geript wrote: Oats totes scum that's y I vote oats This will not convince me. I currently read Oats as town, as I feel he is trying to figure people out. So tell me, why is Oats scum? | ||
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phagga
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On August 09 2013 07:29 geript wrote: ##unvote ##vote phagga I think the last two unvoted (hapa/phagga) are scum/jester. Meh whatevs. I thought Oats is totes scum, what changed? | ||
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phagga
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Hapa, you seem to have zero interest in playing the game, what's going on? What's your stance on Mocsta now? What do you think of geripts behaviour? 5 new posts in 7 hours? This is most dissappointing. | ||
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phagga
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Geript, I told you that Oats is my town read, why would I vote him? What kind of absurd logic is that? And I asked you for your reasons for the vote, how did I avoid it? Mocsta, you know who else tries to stay alive? Town. I can't believe the crap you're writing. ##Vote: Mocsta | ||
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phagga
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And he should know better, specially from nominations mafia. I cannot believe that Town-Mocsta plays like this. Geript, so all I would have had to do is put down a vote to look townie? Do you really think that scum is not able to put down the first vote one someone in this game? Or do you have other reasons for voting me? Oats and geript, read Mocstas filter, and tell me what he has done that makes him town. He has been tunneling me the whole game and has tried to discredit me with wrong information on several occasions. How is he displaying a town mindset? | ||
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phagga
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On August 09 2013 17:26 geript wrote: It's not what you said. You sidestepped the discussion. All "He's a town read, but you could convince me if you wanted." Because you might have seen things that I missed? If you pointed out something that must come from a scum mindset, I'd be stupid to not change my read. After all you seemed to be very convinced, so I thought I might have missed something. | ||
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phagga
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I can't imagine scum being so inactive. Wouldn't he try to at least get some control of the game? After all, he wants to steer it to a misslynch some way. | ||
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phagga
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Besides, if Hapa isn't jester, who is? Geript is looking townie, so are you. For me, that only leaves Mocsta, and I don't think he is actively trying to get lynched. | ||
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phagga
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phagga
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Geript is a stubborn bastard, and I have no clue how I can convince him that he's wrong on me. He does not even really talk to me. | ||
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phagga
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Mocsta! On August 09 2013 18:07 Mocsta wrote: this is beyond ridiculous. hapa has been miserly pushing me all game as Mafia. we all know from the rule clarification that jester and Mafia can share a victory. henceforth a jester hapa would have stopped pushing for my lynch if he truly thought I was Mafia... instead, he continued after the announcement. I shall repeat that u thought it was natural to consider jester interactions,which just drops my jaw as a townie. Mafia love pushing the theory that scum is some mastermind trying to be active and pulling strings. where as we all know better. game after game on team liquid has shown that scum are always most likely to try and control things behind the scenes. this whole game I have been transparent in my approach to finding antitown ; yet now u try and accuse me of being a scum mastermind..,, lol phagga just lol. u r the one that has been subtlely trying to steer things starting from the very beginning of the game when u tried to cock block the geript plan your post is full of bullshit, lies and contradictions. Let's have a look. + Show Spoiler + On August 09 2013 18:07 Mocsta wrote: this is beyond ridiculous. hapa has been miserly pushing me all game as Mafia. we all know from the rule clarification that jester and Mafia can share a victory. henceforth a jester hapa would have stopped pushing for my lynch if he truly thought I was Mafia... instead, he continued after the announcement. LIE Hapa "miserly pushing you" even after the rule clarification: On August 08 2013 09:57 Hapahauli wrote: Alright I'll take a look. Again though, early game town-reads are not 100%. However I'm suspicious enough of Mocsta at this point to not have much of my focus on Oats. This post is the last time that Hapa mentions you as being suspicious or scumread. Now check the timestamps on the rule clarification: On August 08 2013 14:40 Blazinghand wrote: Rules clarification re: endgaming the jester A jester endgamed by the town loses. A jester endgamed by scum gets a "partial victory" This came later. Since this post, all Hapa has posted are these two posts: + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2013 16:00 Hapahauli wrote: No, but a Jester won't necessarily reveal his/her hand this soon. You have to balance being scummy with being laughably obvious. Just because you don't understand my explanation doesn't mean I didn't explain it. As said twice before, there's simply no merit in having the unlynchable townie claim now. Why out a blue when we don't need to? He can claim at any time. Best case scenario for town is to have him live to tomorrow and THEN claim. On August 09 2013 07:11 Hapahauli wrote: Nothing about Mocsta's case is alignment indicative. He seems most concerned with the "preparing for D2" bit, but what does that even mean? It's impossible for townies to be concerned about basically auto-losing on D2? So no, Hapa has been barely pushing you at the beginning of the game. since the clarification, he has not mentioned you once as a scumread or a lynch candidate. And yes, it's perfectly possible that you are Mafia, since the guy we all think is jester stopped pushing you after the rule clarification. CONTRADICTION On August 09 2013 18:07 Mocsta wrote: I shall repeat that u thought it was natural to consider jester interactions,which just drops my jaw as a townie. Oh really? Please read the bolded part: On August 08 2013 10:27 Mocsta wrote: Firstly. I can understand why some have chosen to pressure me. Its a 5 player game and I have one of the largest filters. Hence; the most content to go through at this early stage. Perhaps instead of brash - incorrect - analysis, it would be more pertinent to address questions I can actually respond to. Secondly. Personally, I still take issue with the lynchproof plan. I get what the plan does; I get that we have moved away from the plan; however I just dont understand why a player would concoct a plan that leaves town with a 50/50 chance to win. This is far from a pro-town plan to consider, let alone continue to endorse. Lastly. I stand by my logic; hence, I think you guys are treating this way too much like a normal, and not giving enough credit for what each of the anti-town roles want to achieve. The whole point of this game is that if you mis-read somone, it could be GG due to Jester. Its only by understanding how they need to proceed, that we can catch them. That's what I have been doing. Trying to understand how they need to proceed to achieve optimal results. But now you're here calling me scum for following the very advise you gave? BULLSHIT, followed by CONTRADICTIONS On August 09 2013 18:07 Mocsta wrote: Mafia love pushing the theory that scum is some mastermind trying to be active and pulling strings. where as we all know better. game after game on team liquid has shown that scum are always most likely to try and control things behind the scenes. This is so much garbage I don't even know where to start. Let's just take the easiest one: How does scum, in this game, without partners, without PMs, control things behind the scenes? Answer: He can't. this whole game I have been transparent in my approach to finding antitown ; yet now u try and accuse me of being a scum mastermind..,, lol phagga just lol. I'm not saying your a scum mastermind, I say you try to steer the game to a misslynch. You try to get enough control over the game so you can push my mislynch through. And you have almost succeded. On August 09 2013 18:07 Mocsta wrote: u r the one that has been subtlely trying to steer things starting from the very beginning of the game when u tried to cock block the geript plan I was cockblocking the plan? But wait: On August 09 2013 01:57 Mocsta wrote: Now whilst I can agree that skeptical is a "townie"-ish trait to exhibit and you do indeed seek more information from Geript; its the post-plan behaviour that I find odd. So... is it a townie trait to be skeptical and try to gain more info, or am I cock blocking his plan? Contradictions, Contradictions. Also, subtly steering things in the thread means I'm trying to have some control over the game. Didn't you just write further up that scum does not play this way? Your case on me revolves entirely around my setup speculation and plan behaviour. You completely ignore my reads and the reasons for them, you ignore that I tried to get converstation going with others several times. Tell me, where comes that habit to repeatedly call yourself town? Why do you feel the need after your VT claim to repeat that you are town? + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2013 14:58 Mocsta wrote: I suspect scum asked this question as i can't imagine town thinking about this.. I know I certainly didnt Hmmm I imagine this changes the game somewhat as now scum have the option to bandy up day2 and are probably playing the lurking game.. Where are u phagga.... On August 09 2013 00:42 Mocsta wrote: @Phagga. For your first query: Why would you not think about the question as town Win-Con phagga... Why would I -let me remind you: town- be contemplating the jester wincon beyond to be lynched? My focus is to lynch the goon, and avoid the jester. (As a post-game thing.. I would be seriously shocked if it wasn't the jester that asked for clarification.. which then leads into WIFOM about timezones etc) [i]Do you think this information is not important for town I think it just opens up WIFOM, so no. Regardless of whether jseter wants a selfish victory, or shared... my focus is the same. Lynch the goon. Do you beg to differ? =============== (2) Regarding grievances etc, This ties into my query post to you. Will start compiling soonish. Need to re-read again first. On August 09 2013 18:07 Mocsta wrote: this is beyond ridiculous. hapa has been miserly pushing me all game as Mafia. we all know from the rule clarification that jester and Mafia can share a victory. henceforth a jester hapa would have stopped pushing for my lynch if he truly thought I was Mafia... instead, he continued after the announcement. I shall repeat that u thought it was natural to consider jester interactions,which just drops my jaw as a townie. Mafia love pushing the theory that scum is some mastermind trying to be active and pulling strings. where as we all know better. game after game on team liquid has shown that scum are always most likely to try and control things behind the scenes. this whole game I have been transparent in my approach to finding antitown ; yet now u try and accuse me of being a scum mastermind..,, lol phagga just lol. u r the one that has been subtlely trying to steer things starting from the very beginning of the game when u tried to cock block the geript plan On August 09 2013 19:31 Mocsta wrote: Dude.. i dont understand whats going on here?? I thought what I wrote is clear, and i am *genuinely* struggling to understand where our communication breakdown is deriving from? I 100% agree that good play is: Antitown shouldnt be pushing who they think is the other antitown. Because of the shared win-con. Now, we all know Hapa is not adhering to this typical town meta, so the take is: he is antitown. Hence, what I am saying is that, Hapa as antitown, should not be pushing the other antitown. So who is Hapa pushing? Hes pushing me..and I know I am town. ================= Are we still on different pages? Looks like you have to compensate for something. Oats, geript, I don't know how you can read this guy town. I ask you to reconsider your read and vote with me. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On August 09 2013 23:38 geript wrote: No lie, when I started reading that case I was all: "that feels like a rally odd case for a townie to make" </3 Why? Weekend begins, my activity will drop heavily for the next 60 hours. | ||
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phagga
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On August 10 2013 10:14 Mocsta wrote: BTW I love 2 things about ohaggas case 1... he will now be afk for 60hrs lol 2.. he's so confident about his case that he didn't lay down a vote 1. I am not afk for 60 hours, just low activity. 2. My vote is on you for a long time already. Just more tries to discredit me with lies. Oats, you still think Mocsta is town? Do you think that the post I quoted earlier comes from a town mindset? What do you say About the points I raised? | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On August 10 2013 15:11 Mocsta wrote: Do we really have to do this? con·vic·tion [kuhn-vik-shuhn] noun 1. a fixed or firm belief: No clever argument, no persuasive fact or theory could make a dent in his conviction in the rightness of his position. 2. the act of convicting; a declaration that a person is guilty of an offense. No vote dude.. hes just trying to throw dirt around me, but let other people do the work. Then he can bandwagon on and take no responsibility when I flip. Classic scum play. Stop lying already. On August 09 2013 17:07 phagga wrote: I agree with you guys that Hapa is probably jester. Geript, I told you that Oats is my town read, why would I vote him? What kind of absurd logic is that? And I asked you for your reasons for the vote, how did I avoid it? Mocsta, you know who else tries to stay alive? Town. I can't believe the crap you're writing. ##Vote: Mocsta | ||
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phagga
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Jokes aside, ##unvote I need to reevaluate my reads when I have some time. | ||
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phagga
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any comment on play is welcome. | ||
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phagga
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Also, thanks a lot for hosting! I really liked the setup. | ||
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phagga
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Killing me was barely an option when I was an (at that point) easy misslynch, and killing you could have complicated things for Mocsta massively. | ||
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phagga
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Yeah, I realised later that I overdid it with the case, and I had no clue how to come back. i was actually putting together another post showing stuff that you misrepresented. But while checking your filter, I suddenly saw your vote | ||
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phagga
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phagga
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Of course. As I said, I failed to convince the others. Although I would have wished that geript would not have ignored me so often. But I probably should have insisted stronger. | ||
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phagga
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Not if scum/jester counterclaims. | ||
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phagga
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On August 12 2013 11:46 geript wrote: That's null for me entirely. You were town for me by process of elimination. Phagga's reactions read to me as if he had to think and analyze how best to respond instead of acting instinctively (which ironically was right). It was too much that he was trying to look town instead of being town. It's interesting that you perceived it like this, because I was not intentionally trying to look like town. I thought if I'm able to point out where Mocsta is having a scum mindset, you'll rethink your position on me. However, I realize by now that I presented my points completely wrong. (I still think that some of them were actually good points at the time, I just presented them awfully). As for kill Wifom, that's why I ended up ignoring it. Phagga looked more like scum to me and wifoming and dragging it out wouldn't I don't think have changed the decision unless you slipped really bad. As for the insta-claim plan, the only way it fails IMO is if there are no unlynchable claims. That line of play takes all of the pressure off scum/jester to figure out how to respond. I'm not quite sure why it wasn't obvious to Oats/phagga immediately. I still caught you by the green/horny line. Oh we'll, I could've corrected at the end. My first reaction to your plan was "hey, that's a cool idea", but then I immediatly asked myself what your exact motivation was. So I asked before claiming. Btw, it is my experience that if player A does something scummy, and player B is trying to make player A scum for that point almost the whole game, then player B is probably scum. That was one of the main reasons why I thought Mocsta was scum in the first place. He was so focused on my reaction to the plan (which might not have been ideal), completely dismissed my explanations and ignored everything else I did. That made it obvious for me that he can't be town. I've been caught in that trap a few times, (nominations comes to mind, or wheel of fortune), and I think I recognise it pretty well by now. | ||
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phagga
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On August 12 2013 09:54 Blazinghand wrote: looking for thoughts re: the setup also. I like the idea of jester+scum+2vt+unlynchable, specifically because of the possibility of unlynchable claim shenannies I like the setup a lot. However, a second game would probably be much more predictable/harder for scum as people would figure out faster what the optimal play for each situation is. As Mocsta said, if we'd play the game again with the exact same people, scum chances to win would be very small. I also liked the size of the game. I dislike the recent trends of 15+ minis, so this was a nice change. | ||
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