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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
I thought I explained my inability to comprehend your actions in some detail.. however u still choose not to change your approach... Lets try something new. Now that all 5 ppl have posted somewhat. Who do u think fits the mould of jester and goon. Do u think lynchproof is going to play the same way as a vt?. | ||
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Mocsta
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Mocsta
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On August 08 2013 16:20 phagga wrote: Why don't you push hapa if you think something is wrong with him? I vote when I feel sure I've found scum. Frankly I feel I have gone out of my way to express why I dont understand u.. and u keep backpedaling to your discourse with oats..that's shoddy to me and hence That's why I'm not interested in hapa currently. In fairness I'm restricted to phone posting at work . So I will make a deal with u. When I get home. I will summarise my grievance for u one last time via computer so I can quote etc | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On August 08 2013 16:25 phagga wrote: Hapa: What do you think of Mocsta? What do you make of his reaction to my accusation? Oats: you said earlier that Hapa and me are the anti-town forces. Why do you think Mocsta is town? U have a terrible penchant to misread. He thinks I'm antitown and if u read the quote he supplied that would be apparrent. | ||
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Mocsta
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Mocsta
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When he wrote "this statement." I thought he shared hapa sentiment of me. Regardless. Here's a q for u phagga. U choose to outline me as scum. But then ask me to also chase hapa. Why r u being so reactive? If u had concerns with me or any others. Why r u not leading the charge to ascertain alignment? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
U do realise everything u have submitted in the thread is a +1 right? Ur idea of a good plan....+1 to geript Ur best scum lead.... +1 to hapa Ur scum justification...,+1 to hapa So if u want to use hapa logic so flippantly.. Is he a town read for u or not.... | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
secondly.. I am as time poor as u, am o ly on phone access yet that makes me scum and u a reactive "townie"... lol.. this is lol even before factoring your +1 contributions lastly.. how can u support a firm anti town/null reads "case" without adding anything additional of merit... I'm going to put it out there... did u change your position on hapa based on the jester rule clarification?? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On August 09 2013 00:01 geript wrote: Oats totes scum that's y I vote oats Back  Drunker than expected... but hey.. beer/river views/cigars.. cant go wrong Now, im a bit stuck on how to proceed as theres a few actions occuring simultaneously. (1) I need to consolidate a post to phagga (2) retort to phagga query to me (3) figure out this vote on oats. + oats vote on Hapa Personally, the vote on Hapa im not against. He seems to be idling by, at least for my expectation of his play. ========================== Now oats... I thought his cavalier attitude was meta-indicative of town? So could you please expand on what strikes you as defaulting him to scum? I also ASSUME you mean mafia, as surely if you mean jester, you would not be voting him? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
For your first query: On August 08 2013 14:40 Blazinghand wrote: Rules clarification re: endgaming the jester A jester endgamed by town loses. A jester endgamed by scum gets a "partial victory" On August 08 2013 14:58 Mocsta wrote: I suspect scum asked this question as i can't imagine town thinking about this.. I know I certainly didnt On August 08 2013 23:51 phagga wrote: Why would you not think about that question as town? Do you think this information is not important for town? Why would you not think about the question as town Win-Con phagga... On August 07 2013 15:51 Blazinghand wrote: Miners' Win Con: Miners win when the Goon is dead. They lose if Night 2 starts, or if the Jester is lynched. Why would I -let me remind you: town- be contemplating the jester wincon beyond to be lynched? My focus is to lynch the goon, and avoid the jester. (As a post-game thing.. I would be seriously shocked if it wasn't the jester that asked for clarification.. which then leads into WIFOM about timezones etc) Do you think this information is not important for town I think it just opens up WIFOM, so no. Regardless of whether jseter wants a selfish victory, or shared... my focus is the same. Lynch the goon. Do you beg to differ? =============== (2) Regarding grievances etc, This ties into my query post to you. Will start compiling soonish. Need to re-read again first. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Phagga, my queries//case are below. Spoilered as quite large. + Show Spoiler + @Phagga Regarding the PLAN: Your position as endorsed by yourself is in the spoiler below. + Show Spoiler + On August 07 2013 21:26 phagga wrote: When geript asked everyone to claim, my reaction was not "oh well, claiming VT is useless information, I might as well claim". I thought "Why does he want everyone to claim? What's the ieea behind it?". And for that thought my own role was absolutely irrelevant. All I wanted is to know why he thinks it's a good idea to claim. And earlier to you: On August 07 2013 20:19 phagga wrote: Well, after he lined it out I thought the plan was ok. I was back then expecting the unlynchable to claim under any circumstance, although I see now why he doesn't (makes more sense to claim D2 if still alive). With that in mind, I expected the claims to give us some lead on who to lynch. At the same time I saw no real downside for town. Hence I thought the plan is worth trying out. Also, as I explained, I hoped that scum and/or jester might make a mistake with claiming, leading to confirmed townies.
Now whilst I can agree that skeptical is a "townie"-ish trait to exhibit and you do indeed seek more information from Geript; its the post-plan behaviour that I find odd. ===================== Exhibit A - 1 On August 07 2013 16:12 geript wrote: + Show Spoiler [The Plan] + Here let me spell it out for you because apparently you missed the obvious logic of it: We get 3 unlynchable claims = no worse than 33% win chance We get 1 unlynchabl claim = no worse than 25% win chance, but really since every VT will be able to recognize that only 1 unlynchable claim and therefore limit his scum hunting to 1 of 3 people which gives us good odds to find scum instead of jester We get 2 unlynchable claims = it gets tricky I have a plan for this specifically but it doesn't work if I explain it. As you can see, every situation of claiming is pro town. Not one single bad option. On August 07 2013 16:31 phagga wrote: Ok, I have my own thoughts on this for later, but I guess it's worth a try. I'm VT. Which obviously means that at least one of you two is lying. When I (and Oats) press you for these further thoughts later. What we get is the following: On August 07 2013 18:44 phagga wrote: My issue is that this "thought" mimics the Geript plan to a "tee"; thus providing zero "own thoughts for later" as you had promised.basically there were some constellations that would confirm towns (3 claimed unlynchables / 2 claimed jesters / 1 claimed unlynchable), which is why I liked the idea of claiming, but I obviously could not say that back then. My explanation is that you were stalling - by lying/exaggerating - your claim. This is typically not a townie indicator. -------------------- Exhibit A-2 After further pressure from myself regarding the plan we receive: On August 07 2013 20:19 phagga wrote: Of course if I then later post them they look like geripts plan, because they are tied to his plan. Well, after he lined it out I thought the plan was ok. I was back then expecting the unlynchable to claim under any circumstance, although I see now why he doesn't (makes more sense to claim D2 if still alive). With that in mind, I expected the claims to give us some lead on who to lynch. At the same time I saw no real downside for town. Hence I thought the plan is worth trying out. Also, as I explained, I hoped that scum and/or jester might make a mistake with claiming, leading to confirmed townies. Firstly, as discussed in Exhibit A-1. Regardless of whether your ideas are similar to Geripts, you clearly expressed that you had additional thoughts - so far this has not been evident. Secondly, You are still seeking the lynchproof townie. Thirdly, the "mistake claiming leading to confirmed townies" seems so far fetched and reads me like you are trying to dangle a carrot in front of us. What I see: Originally you were a skeptic to a "plan" to break the game.. now.. A rapid change of heart such that your scum hunting foundation is based around claims and plans, whilst still seeking the lynchproof. ===================== Exhibit B-1 On August 07 2013 16:31 phagga wrote: Ok, I have my own thoughts on this for later, but I guess it's worth a try. I'm VT. Which obviously means that at least one of you two is lying. This was your first post to rub me the wrong way. Given the whole "skepticism" of the plan and your quick "convenient" turn-around; this exchange reads to me as forced and "pot stirring". Now.. town *CAN* intentionally stir the pot to get reactions; but do you actually follow through with any pressure? The answer is .. no.. not until much later.. Again, this is not typically a townie indicator. -------------------- Exhibit B-2 On August 08 2013 02:35 phagga wrote: Again, when I asked for his plan I did not think that far. I really just tried to figure out what he wants to achieve with massclaiming. I just did not like the thought of needlessly putting out information if it does not benefit town. The benefits for scum? Mocsta mentioned it, there is the possibility that it makes it easier for them to pick a good NK. However, I did not think of that at the time. When I claimed, I could not think of a downside. Firstly, lets assume that you withheld due to skepticism; rather than being concerned about being counter-claimed. Secondly, I dont follow "I could not think of a downside, when I claimed" as identified in Exhibit B-1. Town wouldnt put all their eggs in one basket (a plan) to scum hunt; nor would they create a situation to call someone a "liar" and then not proceed with a meaningful pressure followup. ===================== Exhibit C On August 07 2013 17:57 phagga wrote: Ok, this is not what I expected to happen at all, although it makes sense for either not-town role to claim jester. What I'm more surprised is that the unlynchable did not claim yet. I suppose someone is holding back to draw out a fakeclaim? That did not really work though, as we have 4 claimed VTs and a jester now. I Disagree. Firstly, the plan is a deterrent for the lynchproof/jesters to come out as it gives each party at best a 50% chance to win. Secondly, I already provided logic on why mafia would be seeking the lynchproof. Thirdly, you only became a "believer" after two had already claimed. Yet, now is surprised that the remaining two people (myself/hapa) did not claim non-VT roles... lol. Overall, this post has too many logic gaps for me; I would expect more transparency from a townie that has converted from skeptic to believer. ===================== Exhibit D Your case on me boils down to OMGUS. You don't like I keep querying your mentality, so call me anti-town.. ===================== Exhibit E On August 09 2013 01:02 phagga wrote: Now I'm the one posting from phone. Jesters wincon is relevant to town because it influences towns behaviour in 1-1-1 on D2. With the new information it means that town is in an almost unwinnable situation. And I thought of that question too, but it got answered before I could ask it. So I disagree that a townie would not think of it Last time I checked, we were in D1. Im concerned you are planning for D2 already. ====================== TL;DR
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On August 09 2013 02:06 Oatsmaster wrote: So why is phagga no jester? Fair question. (1) Jester wants to get lynched, so wants to act scummy, but not TOO scummy (otherwise town wont vote him). Now, phagga has been trying to share discourse back n forth but keeps getting stuck in the same logic holes. Hence I think he is mafia trying to maintain a story and is getting caught. (2) Jester can win D1. Mafia can only win post-D2. Phagga is already clearly contemplating D2 strategy. Hence I think this is a stronger indicator of mafia alignment, as opposed to jester. (3) His obsession with the lynchproof townie. To me, this is something the mafia is seeking; not the jester. | ||
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Mocsta
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Mocsta
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On August 09 2013 15:42 Oatsmaster wrote: no im not gonna lose cause you want to kill the possible jester. I get the concern , however I still think hapa has displayed a lack of motivation in posts I would have associated with being jester. One of hapa only passionate posts was where we went through phsgga filter to explain why he wasn't jester...perhaps this was easy to do merely because hapa IS the jester. Oats. My position is clear and the power of day1 still lies with u. | ||
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Mocsta
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So Talk to me. We clearly feel hapa IS anti town. However why mafia vs jester? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
What I don't like about Geript is that he called u scum but chose to never elaborate. I'm still giving him credit for early burst, and from my experience Geript is not normally a game solver for contributions anyways. The fact u r treating this slam vote so seriously makes me sure u r town. So. This leaves me with phagga as last antitown. For me. Hapa is uninterested in the game. Is blending in by adding weak justification comments here and there, and then doesn't follow through with any pressure.he simply doesn't care. Phagga on the other is displaying care factor. And heck. Mafia certainly do NOT want to be lynched. Hence I think hapa non caring is him being jester and wanting to be lynched.. whereas phagga is trying to stop this game from ending. My take. Vote phagga. Vote mafia. End the game. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Everyone knows that a town hapa gets more enjoyment solving the game. as scum he has to try to figure out the jesyer and even with that he isn't trying. Which makes me think he is jester waiting for the game to play out and has no interest to solve anything. All hapa has told is .. is that phagga isn't jester. Now if phagga is try Harding to get lynched I'm willing to lose. That's master stroke planning and honestly I'm not willing to give him credit for such a performance as jester. I'm not sure anyone in tl could setup that type of play to be honest. However the tryharding does make sense as mafia as I explained earlier. This is a far simpler solution. And the one I'm choosing to believe and endorse | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On August 09 2013 16:51 geript wrote: So I can't sleep and am up late and nobody wants to talk to me :/ What changed us mind from oats to phagga? I do have concerns u dodged explaining what made oats scummy. He's pretty clearly town to me. | ||
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Mocsta
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K. Well I'm heading into. Meeting. Hopefully u have better luck discussing phagga as mafia with oats | ||
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Mocsta
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On August 09 2013 17:49 phagga wrote: Hapa has not voted yet, and if he is indeed the jester and mocsta scum, then he will never vote. . this is beyond ridiculous. hapa has been miserly pushing me all game as Mafia. we all know from the rule clarification that jester and Mafia can share a victory. henceforth a jester hapa would have stopped pushing for my lynch if he truly thought I was Mafia... instead, he continued after the announcement. I shall repeat that u thought it was natural to consider jester interactions,which just drops my jaw as a townie. On August 09 2013 17:36 phagga wrote: I can't imagine scum being so inactive. Wouldn't he try to at least get some control of the game? After all, he wants to steer it to a misslynch some way. Mafia love pushing the theory that scum is some mastermind trying to be active and pulling strings. where as we all know better. game after game on team liquid has shown that scum are always most likely to try and control things behind the scenes. this whole game I have been transparent in my approach to finding antitown ; yet now u try and accuse me of being a scum mastermind..,, lol phagga just lol. u r the one that has been subtlely trying to steer things starting from the very beginning of the game when u tried to cock block the geript plan | ||
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