EPTTitanic Mini Mafia!
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I do not like how much discussion there has been about lurkers. The first post was palatable, but the fact that so many people decided to focus the conversation on it created an environment that benefits scum more than town. To talk about lurking policy properly would require a conversation about mafia-theory and philosophy, which is a conversation that allows scum to both hide easily and setup town-town wagons on day one. Paperscraps is the scummiest player to have posted so far. On July 27 2013 10:38 Paperscraps wrote: As in any other game of limited information. Day 1 has the least amount of material to draw from and thus is harder to deduce a solid fos. That does not mean that you should find a fence to sit on. There are many pro-town things that you could be doing on day 1 even if you have a hard time forming good scum reads. This post is so scummy, as it is just throwing mud for no good reason. On July 27 2013 12:43 Paperscraps wrote: Im just going to lurk for the rest of the day, since exarezee has deemed lurkers unlynchable. It is a full proof strategy guys. If you are mafia, just lurk from now on. You won't get lynched.  I did not like this post by Tofu as I cannot tell whether he is actually prodding or looking for a soft target. The bolded part is what puts a scummy tone on the post. On July 27 2013 11:11 FirmTofu wrote: What? You don't want to discuss it? Are you deliberately trying to stifle discussion? If you don't want to talk about this, then what DO you want to talk about? Also, you are just naming people without saying why you find them scummy. Please explain why. Your suspicions mean nothing unless you elaborate on them. Exarzee is almost as town as anyone can be at this stage of the game. The only thing I did not like was: On July 27 2013 11:35 exarezee wrote: @FirmTofu I'd rather wait until more posts are made. I think only 6 or 7 of the players in the game have posted so far. There are good town reasons for withholding a read for a few hours or until a particular person has posted, however the reason given above by Exarzee is not a good town reason. I am willing to let it slide due to some of his other posts being very town. This post by Rayn is not scummy, but I want to point it out because I do not think that anyone should be encouraged to sheep. Sheeping generally helps scum more than town. On July 27 2013 16:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am just going to say that i'll be home in around ~10-12 hours so don't waste time on discussing my alignment before i start playing. Oats is most likely town and should be listened to. To finish, I liked the way that a lot of votes were thrown around early and I see benefit in continuing to do this, as it will provide extra information in the future. Since I think that Paperscraps is the scummiest player so far: ##vote: Paperscraps | ||
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On July 27 2013 15:04 Paperscraps wrote: Agreed. The day has barely begun. If anyone has a serious FoS, they need to check themselves. Half the town hasn't even posted yet. I was hoping people would want to be a bit more "charismatic" today , but it looks like playing the standard super serious pro-town meta game will be more beneficial to the passengers on this ship. It is just ever so boring, but I can deal with it.TLDR; Besides the first question on my first post, I haven't been serious at all. ##Unvote My first real read of this game is that I like where Tofu's head is at so far. I kind of feel bad, that exar wasted his time dissecting my shenanigans, haha, but not too bad .You can have some fun and make jokes while also playing a serious game. You just have to make sure that the jokes are obvious. I really do not like the bolded sentence. You have made quite a lot of posts already, are you now trying to say that we should all ignore everything that you have posted so far because none of it was serious? Specifically, what do you like about Tofu? Where do you think his head is at so far? | ||
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On July 27 2013 17:30 Vivax wrote: Wtf guys. Did nobody find my post scummy? Man I suck. Fuck lurker lynches. Lynch scum. ##vote stutters I found your first post scummy before I read all of the following posts. They were so much worse than yours that they made your first post look like a scum trap. | ||
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On July 27 2013 09:55 Paperscraps wrote: I don't have a problem with taking them out sooner, rather than later. If you are stuck in a potential mylo/lylo situation with a lurker, it is no fun. Of course, if some one is overly scummy we should lynch them first. Day 1 lynches are always interesting though. It is hard to get solid reads and judge interactions between players. That is not taking a stance. Taking a stance would be “I am going to vote for anyone who lurks”. Saying that you will vote for a lurker unless someone else is scummier and then going on to say that it is hard to get solid reads on day 1 is not taking a stance. I do not think that being afraid to say what to do with lurkers is a scum tell. I do think that attempting to mimic thread sentiment is a scum tell. | ||
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On July 27 2013 17:59 Oatsmaster wrote: hzflank, why did you spend a whole like 200 words shitting on town man. I woke up and read the thread. It was a bit hard to read after just waking up as it was full of talk about lurkers even though the game has just started. Then I had to read through it again and by the end of it I decided that it deserved to be shit on. On July 27 2013 17:59 Oatsmaster wrote: So you dont believe his words that he was kidding around right? Why? On July 27 2013 18:05 Oatsmaster wrote: Are you serious? All the votes so far have been joke votes. How can you not see that? I do not believe that every post he has made should be considered kidding around. I understand that sometimes people make posts without a purpose, but I do not believe that every post a person has made so far should be considered to have no serious purpose. We cannot allow people to suggest that we ignore everything that they have posted so far. I do not consider all of the votes so far to be jokes. I do not think that any of them are meant to stick and I would expect all of them to move before the end of the day. However, some of the votes were placed in the hope of getting reactions or creating discussion, rather than just being jokes. | ||
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On July 27 2013 18:01 Vivax wrote: But I said the same thing. Why is Paperscraps scummy for it but not me? Do yours and stutters' reasons only apply to single players? Yours was the first post in the thread and therefore your post could not possibly mimic thread sentiment. My reasoning applies to all players. I do not know who Stutters' reasoning applies to, but I would prefer not to have my reasoning associated with Stutters or any other player until we have seen some flips. | ||
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On July 27 2013 11:26 exarezee wrote: We're obviously not going to lynch a lurker Day 1. To do so would be a terrible play on the collective town's part. If we assume that it's a bad play to lynch a lurker, why are we discussing it? Do you want me to elaborate on why lynching a lurker is bad? I said I have a slight scum read based on gut instinct and feel. I bunch this together into tonal reads. But like I said, it's very slight as I have not played with the players before. There is no need for me to start throwing evidence on people at the beginning of Day 1 (to be exact there is little evidence). My posts have been much better than some of the fluff already being made. I mean, I can go into more detail why I think koshi and paperscraps have posted more scumlike than others who have posted...but that post can wait. Most people have now posted and the current discussion is at risk of stagnating. You have already talked about Paper, so unless you have anything to add there would you now be willing to tell us why you found Koshi more scum like than others? | ||
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I realize that your post is not serious, Clarity, however I would appreciate it if you could tell us if you actually have a reason for a wagon on Tofu. | ||
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On July 27 2013 19:17 Vivax wrote: Might I ask why you think his post is not serious? The tone. "I am hereby starting a wagon without giving any reasons for it". | ||
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On July 27 2013 19:34 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm not quite sure what that means. "looks a lot more town in his filter than he does in the thread"? Could you explain? After my initial two reads of the thread I was aware of a post from Tofu that I thought was scummy. It was this post: On July 27 2013 11:11 FirmTofu wrote: What? You don't want to discuss it? Are you deliberately trying to stifle discussion? If you don't want to talk about this, then what DO you want to talk about? Also, you are just naming people without saying why you find them scummy. Please explain why. Your suspicions mean nothing unless you elaborate on them. I have already mentioned what I did not like about that in a previous post. However, upon reading Tofu's filter it seemed like he was trying to probe multiple people and move the discussion along by asking questions instead of talking about lurkers. Seen in that light, the above quote no longer looks scummy. | ||
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On July 27 2013 19:47 Clarity_nl wrote: Erm, in the quote you used he is actually defending the lurker discussion, which exarezee is trying to remove. In the quote that I used he is not defending the lurker discussion, he is attacking Exar. To me it looks like he is trying to move the discussion along by beginning to attack players, rather than just talking about lurkers. | ||
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To talk about your case without defending Tofu, this part interests me the most: On July 27 2013 13:39 FirmTofu wrote: If I had to lynch someone right now, it would be CJS. All of his posts are filled with fluff and he has a random vote on Oats. I'm hating having to decipher all of his wordplay in his posting. Paperscraps would not be a bad lynch for similar reasons. I'm not as convinced as I am for CJS, but suspicion is still there. Right now, exarezee is looking pretty town. If I were scum with Paperscraps then that is exactly what I would of posted at the time. It is a soft defence that could be designed to shift the discussion away from Paper without making Tofu look bad if Paper flips red. However, that is 100% dependant on Paper being scum and therefore I could not vote for Tofu based on that reason. | ||
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On July 27 2013 20:16 Clarity_nl wrote: My case on FT begins after I reply to your post. There is even a giant ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ inbetween So... what association are you talking about? The association between Tofu and I. There is no good reason to clutter your case on Tofu with shit against me unless you think there may be an association. The only time I (as town) have ever talked shit about one person in a case against another person is when I thought that they were both scum. | ||
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Until your most recent post I had no way to know that you had already started your case on Tofu before you voted for him. You seemed to vote for him first and then provide a case when people requested your reasons. On the whole, I am feeling that the way you went about your case (Voting for Tofu > questioning me because I disagreed > giving reasons for your vote on Tofu) makes you look a lot more scummy that Tofu. | ||
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On July 27 2013 20:27 Clarity_nl wrote: Are you feeling attacked? My above post did not include a direct answer to this. The direct answer is: Slightly, but not enough to make me worry. Since I became active in the game almost everyone who has posted has directed multiple questions straight at me, but I quite like that. In every game I have played so far people have thought I was scum in the first half of day 1 (regardless of my real alignment). It is a good thing to be attacked at this point as it provides an easy way for me to post openly if I am scum, or it provides a way for me to get reads on my attackers if I am town. I assume that you ask if I am being attacked because you suspect that I might be scum who is scared of being caught. The truth is that would not be the case if I were scum as I like to be in the middle of things as either alignment. | ||
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On July 27 2013 21:11 Clarity_nl wrote: You're saying that if I had replied to your post in a seperate post, and then posted the case afterwards, that completely changes everything? You're saying that I, as scum, replied to you in the same post as my case on tofu so that you, as town, would feel enticed to defend tofu? Which accomplishes what? But then you're also saying that I, as scum, did that so that my case would be "less likely to attract votes"? Please explain what the thing is that "makes me look scummy" No. It would of changed everything if you had posted your reasons for thinking that Tofu is scum before you asked for other people's opinions. It is scummy to test the waters before you actually post a case. Me defending Tofu makes it harder for town to get a read on Tofu based on his own defence. Therefore, when writing a case the ideal scenario is for the person to defend the case themselves before other people comment too much on it. In this case that was not possible due to time zones, but by discounting my reasons for thinking Tofu is town as you gave the reasons as to why Tofu is scum you made it more likely that I would defend Tofu. That is scummy. On second thoughts, your case being less likely to attract votes is not a scum tell on you. Why did you suggest a wagon on Tofu before you actually posted the reasons for it? | ||
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On July 27 2013 20:13 justanothertownie wrote: Hey guys, just caught up. First impressions: I don't like Paperscraps. First he joins the lurker discussion without adding any content, then he starts to jump on exarezee without any good reason (I'm not really convinced that it was just a joke) and when he gets a little heat for it he totally backs off. I really hate this: So this is not serious at all? Add to this how he didn't post anything since he noticed people getting suspicious. To me he is the scummiest player so far. Also I'm annoyed by CJS. Going through his filter I can't find anything valuable - he just didn't say anything until this point (apart from fluff). One post doth not maketh a townie. What do you think of Clarity's case on Tofu? Or the exchange between Clarity and myself? | ||
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On July 27 2013 21:31 Oatsmaster wrote: oh god hzflank, stop being so defensive, its annoying. I think both of you are not talking about anything really. Hzflank, how do you think you have played this game differently so far from the last newbie where you were scum? The irony is that I cannot defend my being defensive without being defensive. I am not sure how I have played this differently. It was really the second half of day 1 where I played like scum in that game (gently ensuring 2 town wagons and calling my scummy buddy scum after those 2 wagons had formed). I think that in my last newbie game I was more subtle because I setup a day 1 target who did not respond much to me. This game I have had a long exchange with a single player which is more beneficial to town than to scum. | ||
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On July 27 2013 21:28 Clarity_nl wrote: Give our exchange a good long read, think it through, and tell me if you think I'm scum or town, because you've implied both. I'll be honest with you, during our exchange I never meant to imply that you were town. Having read over it a few times I am not as confident in your alignment as I would like to be after such an exchange. However, a lot of the reasoning I might have for you being scum is based on far too many assumptions. Also, I think we got off on the wrong foot when I said that your vote was a joke and you said that 7 minutes was not long enough for me to reply. The best place I can get to is that I do not want to lynch you right now. I think that there is more chance of you flipping town than scum. Additionally, if you did flip town at this point I do not think it would provide any useful associations. After rereading your case on Tofu I did not like the top half but the bottom half contained some good points. I still do not think that Tofu is scum, though. His filter looks town to me and having played with Tofu before he is posting in a way that I would expect from him. | ||
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On July 27 2013 22:25 exarezee wrote: I think paperscraps and firmtofu are a good 1,2 wagon combo for day 1. I don't think both are scum, but I think its a high chance one of the two are. Really strange initial votes on me by both of them. I don't understand why I had to be voted because I didn't provide a reason for a tone read I made. Paperscrap's vote is even more bewildering because he states he was "joking in all his posts." So, if they were townies making these votes I would have to assume they are trying to see if anybody jumps on my bandwagon and gain some information from it....but then they really quickly unvote. Just really strange town play IMO. Really can't see this being done as a scum/scum combo. It draws a little too much attention. Again, could be town/town, but I think its really likely a scum/town combo here. How is that post in any way more useful to town than to scum? You think that Paper and Tofu should be the two lynch candidates but do not state which of them is most likely to be scum. If they are both town then having them be the primary lynch candidates would be great for scum. If one of them is actually scum then you posting that without saying which one you think is scum is really not useful, as if one of them flips town you are in a position where you should assume that the other is scum, which give you a really easy excuse to vote for them if you are in fact scum. Basically, telling us which single person you want to lynch is good. Telling us that you want the votes to be between two specific people is really bad. Which of them is most likely to be scum? | ||
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On July 27 2013 22:42 Oatsmaster wrote: FT's vote was probably a ploy to see what you would do, apparently it didnt work to well huh. If you push paperscrap, you are scum man. Why cant he joke around? Why does every post have to be useful? Not every post has to be useful. Some posts have to be useful. If every post in a filter is useless then that person is scum. | ||
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On July 27 2013 23:21 exarezee wrote: It's a useful post for those who think I'm town and several people do. it's also useful to have a nice concise argument that one of those two is scum for if/when i die and turn up town. But which of them do you think is most likely scum? If I were scum I would love to see a town post that he would like the vote to be between a specific two people. So to me either your post was more useful to scum than to town, or you are scum. I am leaning towards the former, so please answer the question. | ||
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On July 27 2013 23:33 exarezee wrote: I forgot to address your other point hzflank. I think I've stated who is more likely to be scum by the small case I put on paperscraps and the fact that I voted for him. Why is me advocating the 2 wagons bad? I feel like I will get a lot of useful information regardless of how they turn. My scum lean on paperscraps isn't even that strong...and if he actually was joking then it's a very slight lean. Still, based on their interactions with me and their voting history on Day 1, I firmly believe that one of those two is scum. Because scum want two town wagons on day 1. Town only wants to find one scum as the chance of actually finding multiple scum on day 1 is very slim. If a scum member is under pressure and cannot deal with it alone then the simplest and easiest thing for the scum team to do is to ignore that person and secure two other lynch candidates. If town start saying that we want to lynch two specific people then it makes it too easy for scum to steer us into a mislynch without being noticed. If you think that they are both scum that is fine, but don't do anything resembling pushing for lynches on them both at the same time. | ||
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On July 27 2013 23:53 exarezee wrote: You're exactly right. Scum would ideally want two town wagons Day 1. That's why we wagon paper and tofu......you really think they are town/town with their interactions with me day 1? I think that Paper is scum. However, that read may possibly change (If I am given reason to change it), and if it does change then there is every possibility that they are both town. Their interactions with you in no way preclude them from both being town. | ||
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On July 28 2013 00:12 exarezee wrote: Let's look at their summarized sequence of interactions with me and assume they are both town. If you can explain to me their logic in this bizarre sequence, i will acquiesce. Tofu attacks me about the lurker talk. I give a scum lean on papers. Tofu votes me because I did not provide a reason for my scum lean on papers. Papers comes back to thread and drops a vote on me. No reason is given. I provide my reason on papers. Tofu unvotes me and casts suspicion on papers now. Papers unvotes me. Papers plays off his posts as jokes. They wanted to apply some pressure in an attempt to get a read? | ||
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On July 28 2013 00:14 VayneAuthority wrote: no way paper is mafia with how many people suspect him. Tofu is possible given his play in this game so far but gots to see more. Don't give a shit about day 1 usually anyway lalala How does multiple people suspecting someone make that person town? | ||
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On July 28 2013 00:31 VayneAuthority wrote: Not quite yet. There's no reason to tell, only reason to show in this game as town. No reason to let yourself be manipulated by scum. I only do lists when I think I am about to die at night. No one asked for a list. A name and a reason would be good enough. | ||
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On July 28 2013 00:22 VayneAuthority wrote: The only time town ever lynches scum day 1 is when a scum truly, truly fucks up. On July 28 2013 00:24 VayneAuthority wrote: pretty useless I guess? Vig him if we have one. Don't waste a lynch on him. Why do you think that the information gained from lynching JAT would be worth less than the information gained from lynching someone else? | ||
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On July 28 2013 00:42 VayneAuthority wrote: ![[image loading]](http://www.tehcute.com/pics/201305/oh-pig-you-re-the-best-spot-.jpg) oh how delightful. Just because a man has two chicks that does not make him a pig. | ||
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On July 28 2013 01:12 Koshi wrote: Townreads Paperscraps FirmTofu Oatsmaster People I don't want to lynch day 1 reads exarezee Vivax Clarity_nl hzflank So who do you want to lynch? | ||
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On July 28 2013 01:04 Oatsmaster wrote: Town dont care how they look so they play around right. Scum care how they look so they dont. And therefore because they dont play around, they tend to pick out joking posts as scummy, one part because without context, its scummy so any easy reason, and another part is that they just dont see the joke. I do not agree with this at all. Playing around is not an alignment tell. It is just as easy to make jokes or think things are jokes as either alignment. It might be a personality tell, but that is all. | ||
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You are clutching at straws, but if you are going to do that with this post then it is better to consider whether he is scum who knows that Clarity is town. I considered that for a while, but the result was null. | ||
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On July 28 2013 01:39 exarezee wrote: I'm really lost as to who's trolling. I've been trolled by captain sparrow, oatsmaster, and paper so far. Are you guys all just joking right now or can i take your posts seriously. The thread got really shitty. Working out why would be an interesting exercise. | ||
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On July 28 2013 01:51 justanothertownie wrote: Oats is really doing his best in this regard... Too obvious. If scum wanted a messy thread then they would give town reasons to make it messy but they would not do it themselves. Also, Oats' recent posts have made it much easier to get reads on him than his early posts did. | ||
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On July 28 2013 02:06 Oatsmaster wrote: His whole filter is generally him trying not to step on anyones toes. While you may have some points regarding my first post, the above comment is absolute rubbish. Not only have I been happy to step on toes but I have been very obvious about it. Also, when you say my whole filter, did you miss the parts where I question people in an attempt to move things along? | ||
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On July 28 2013 02:12 FirmTofu wrote: As much as I dislike Clarity for misrepresenting my words, I am guilty of his behavior as town in past games. I am leaning town on Clarity right now for this reason. I find it odd that hzflank soft-defended me by talking a lot about how Clarity included a quote from hzflank on his case against me. It feels like hzflank is trying to distance himself from the lynch if I were to get voted, thus firmly establishing himself as an opposing force who wanted to save the townie. The only way I see this happening is if hzflank knows I am town and is acting on that knowledge to make himself look more townie. Who knows I am town? Scum. And this is exactly why Clarity and I had that long exchange. | ||
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On July 28 2013 02:13 Oatsmaster wrote: wanna quote some post where you step on some dudes toes? There was basically a whole page of me stepping on Clarity's toes. Then there was the bit where I pushed Exar into telling us exactly who he thought was scum so that he could not hide behind wanting to lynch two people. On July 27 2013 23:24 hzflank wrote: But which of them do you think is most likely scum? If I were scum I would love to see a town post that he would like the vote to be between a specific two people. So to me either your post was more useful to scum than to town, or you are scum. I am leaning towards the former, so please answer the question. I was happy to disagree with Vayne and push him to participate: On July 28 2013 00:18 hzflank wrote: How does multiple people suspecting someone make that person town? On July 28 2013 00:32 hzflank wrote: No one asked for a list. A name and a reason would be good enough. I have been more than happy to disagree with you also (Oats): On July 28 2013 01:16 hzflank wrote: I do not agree with this at all. Playing around is not an alignment tell. It is just as easy to make jokes or think things are jokes as either alignment. It might be a personality tell, but that is all. Since I became active in the game, at exactly which point do you think I have been avoiding confrontation? | ||
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On July 28 2013 03:50 FirmTofu wrote: He's on the same level as all my other reads that are relatively useless and post fluff. He has somewhat redeemed himself in my eyes with his conversation prodding you. I'm trying to lynch scum and you are the closest thing to scum for me right now. Have you read the thread thoroughly? CJS has had more than one good conversation and has been by far the most useful town player in this game. If CJS is scum then he deserves a medal for this day 1 play. Also, has this exchange with Exar made him look at all less scummy to you? | ||
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On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote: hzflank leaning town - The more and more I read hz, the more I begin to like him. Not afraid to be abrasive and stand his ground. Oats leaning town - I am really hoping Oats is town, his reads and post so far have been great. His comprehension of what is going on is probably the best so far. Oats' read on me was almost the exact opposite of your read on me. You cannot say that you liked the still liked the reasoning for Oats' read on me because he reasoning was mostly not reading my filter properly and a little philosophical differences. Exactly which Oats reads and posts were great? What do you perceive Oats' 'comprehension of what is going on' to be? | ||
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On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote: hzflank leaning town - The more and more I read hz, the more I begin to like him. Not afraid to be abrasive and stand his ground. On July 28 2013 15:39 Paperscraps wrote: Also I think my initial read on hzflank was hasty, after re reading his filter I find him being a possible lynch choice as well. Why? What was it about my filter that made you change your mind? I can certainly see you changing your mind because you realised that you made a mistake when you wrote your list post. What this looks like to me is: Bad scum is scared to post so he lurks for a long time and then posts a list which is all town reads and no scum reads. Bad scum later realises that there was a mistake in his stupid list so he tries to correct it by changing one of his reads without actually providing proper reasoning. | ||
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I would really like you to go back over the exchange that you had with Exar here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=21#414 I seem to have read that exchange very differently to you. For me that made Exar look really town, which is why I questioned you about it. | ||
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On July 28 2013 18:03 hzflank wrote: Exactly which Oats reads and posts were great? What do you perceive Oats' 'comprehension of what is going on' to be? | ||
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Can anyone other than Oats and Vayne give me a good reason to move my vote off of Paper? | ||
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I did not intend my vote to stick on Paper and thought that there was a very good chance I would move it once he started to post. But then his posts changed my mind. He is both playing like scum (lots of town reads, no scum reads, mimicking sentiment) and his posts were inconsistent regarding reads. His best answer was that he had not properly read the thread and as a responsible player I cannot just let that be a good defense unless it is obviously true. I did start to prepare a case on Oats yesterday but I cancelled it shortly after starting. As I was writing it I became less sure that Oats was scum and I did not want to post a case that I did not believe in myself. That is fairly normal for me as I seem to be good at convincing myself that someone is not scum. Now I am of the opinion that unless something changes then Paper has a better chance of flipping scum than anyone else. Therefore, I would personally like to lynch Paper today and have a hard look at associations after he flips. | ||
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On July 28 2013 19:06 Vivax wrote: Hi guys, if anyone suspecting me could write a short summary for the reasons or point me to a post where they have written such, I'd be grateful. Rereading the game now. Couldn't I get anyone warm for lynching a troll? Guess this forum will never learn. Vayne has posted some content between his trolling. If you are going to push a lynch on him then I would suggest basing it on the content rather than the trolling. Lynching someone for trolling and ignoring the content that they have posted is just flipping a coin and I do not think that coin flipping is the best move at the moment. | ||
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On July 28 2013 20:11 Vivax wrote: I do not ignore his content. I'm just aware that between doing nothing and posting what you call content, he spent his time posting a lot of bullshit, that's also content, and specifically, content lacking town-motivation. If I post 10 one liners with stupid shit and one line of reads, do you ignore all the stupid shit and only evaluate the line of reads for your purposes or do you also take into consideration that I wasted time posting shit, in forming your read on me? I take it all into account. But the thing is no one can really discuss his trolling with you as there is not much to say about it. Regarding the content that he has posted: There is a read change on Paper for a bad reason, but I could not use that as a reason to vote for Vayne unless I know Paper's alignment. On July 27 2013 13:25 VayneAuthority wrote: Yea it's classic scum play but I've never played with him before so not jumping to any conclusions. Scum are the first ones to make facetious comments like that last post you quoted. We'll have to keep an eye on him at the least. On July 27 2013 13:29 VayneAuthority wrote: it's a subtle character attack that paperscraps is using there to discredit him. Pretty standard scum play. im like 99% sure exar is town just by the way the thread is receiving him. On July 28 2013 00:14 VayneAuthority wrote: no way paper is mafia with how many people suspect him. Tofu is possible given his play in this game so far but gots to see more. Don't give a shit about day 1 usually anyway lalala Vayne thinks that JAT is too useless to lynch but would make a good Vig shot. Again there is no way I can justify lynching Vayne over that at this point. On July 28 2013 00:24 VayneAuthority wrote: pretty useless I guess? Vig him if we have one. Don't waste a lynch on him. He tells Exar that he is tunnelling Paper too much, but again that is not useful on its own. On July 28 2013 13:58 VayneAuthority wrote: Your endless tunneling is giving me doubts exar. At this point you are basically Nick Swardson. Basically, any case I could make for Vayne being scum is solidly based on association with Paper. As I already think that Paper is scum it would be bad play for me to want to see Vayne lynched before Paper. | ||
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On July 28 2013 20:27 Vivax wrote: Good that you mention that stuff, didn't even read his filter since i wrote the above posts. Guess I'll get off Vayne if he keeps it up. Also good that you mention Paper. I want to discuss him some more with you since you snapped on him pretty early. Tell me if those parts of his list of reads seem scum motivated to you: These reads do not seem scum motivated to me (no hidden agenda that I can see). I think that CJS is likely town so his read matches mine except for different reasons. CJS is actually not role-playing that much, but instead seems to be playing a good town game with a tiny bit of roleplay on top. I am not sure about Koshi, he also seems to be playing a little odd, but I am not confident enough in his alignment to give him a town read. Overall, those reads by Paper are fairly generic and similar to what I perceive to be general thread sentiment. Paper could of made those reads as either town or scum. | ||
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On July 28 2013 20:30 Vivax wrote: hz, what's your current read on justanothertownie? That's a really good question. When Oats made his case against JAT it was actually a pretty good case and I was a little surprised that it did not gather more support or at least positive comments. JAT's filter starts bad and does not get a lot better. I think the reason that I have been giving JAT the benefit of doubt is because for most of the game I really have not trusted Oats. I did consider moving my vote to JAT but I wanted Paper to post before I moved my vote. Looking without any associations then JAT seems like scum to me. In fact, the thing that confuses me most about this game so far is that more people did not vote for JAT and then Oats moved his vote off of JAT when he did. I am not going to be able to figure out why this happened until I see some flips, though. | ||
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On July 28 2013 21:37 Oatsmaster wrote: FT more scum  Also, I can wait for JAT to get lynched. Are you gonna vote for FT? Why/why not? No, I am not going to vote for FT (unless something drastic happens). I think that you are misreading my position. FT is far from my strongest town reads, but is just about in the town category and I only want to vote for someone in the scum category. There is a good pool of players who you might get to vote for FT (Clarity, Exar, Vayne, Paper, Koshi, Stutters, Vivax and Rayn), but I am not one of those people. I do not like your reasoning for wanting to lynch FT. If I were going to lynch FT it would primarily be due to his exchange with Exar that I think should of left FT with a town read on Exar, but apparently did not. Even that is not a good enough reason for lynching him, though. I want to lynch Paper. Just look at what was posted a few hours ago. Paper looks at least as scummy as anyone in that exchange, if not more. Also, Paper's flip would provide great information. The best information we would get from an FT red flip is that it makes Exar look more town and makes me look more scum, and I obviously do not care about that information. If FT flips green then what? It makes Exar look slightly bad I suppose, but it is not much. I am willing to give Paper a chance to change my mind because it is day 1 and it would be stupid of me not to. However, I do not intend to make it easy for him and I would not be surprised if he just ends up looking even more like scum (because he is!) | ||
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Vivax probably town. He thinks I am scum because I seemed to be soft defending JAT. | ||
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On July 28 2013 23:01 Oatsmaster wrote: I know right hzflank. I totally should stop pushing FT because it makes me look extremely scummy. Can you use your brain for one moment and explain why I would stop voting for FT as scum? On July 28 2013 22:43 Oatsmaster wrote: yeah yeah you're right. Good job clarity. ##unvote FT ##vote: JAT That information was all available before you voted for FT. Are you not reading the thread properly again, Oats? You cannot change your mind based on information that was available before you formed the original opinion. | ||
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On July 28 2013 22:24 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm having issues with paper, yes he looks scummy but there's never been any pushbacks up until now, when suddenly and FT wagon is being formed (which makes sense, his posting is kinda scummy) There was no serious pressure on Paper until he started to again. I was pretty open about being willing to change my vote once I had reason to. I asked one set of questions to Paper which he never answered due to being AFK and I left it at that. Then Paper came back and posted like scum. So I pushed him and he disappeared. Then the FT thing came up suddenly. The push on FT was the pushback to save Paper. Just look at how sure Oats is that Paper is town. On July 28 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote: The best info that we get from a Papers flip is that he flips town. I think that we need to see either Oats or Paper flip. I think that of the two Paper has the most chance of being scum and also that a mislynch on Oats would be worse. Heck, if we have a Day Vig... | ||
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On July 28 2013 23:10 Oatsmaster wrote: Wait so you are saying that I unvoted because of what scum agenda? I dont see it anywhere. A simple scum reasoning could be because you thought that you had more chance to secure a lynch on JAT than on FT. | ||
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On July 28 2013 23:08 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: No. You are still my other one. No one else seems to agree with me though. It makes me sad =( Malongo's activity has been really disappointing to me. I'm not sure why FirmTofu say that his activity has been good when in fact it has been shit. Stutters also came in, took a shot at me, and then peaced out without giving any real analysis. I'm not entirely sure if I can see any town motivation in that. I just think that these are two people to look out for and I would be up for lynching any of the four players (Oatsmaster, VayneAuthority, Malongo, Stutters) today. I'm still not sold on the FirmTofu argument (I'll have to read it again when I have more rum) and I'm really not sold on the Paperscraps or JAT argument. What part of Paper's play made him not scum? | ||
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On July 28 2013 23:22 Oatsmaster wrote: Are you serious? Who do you see wanting to lynch JAT? Vivax ONLY. FT more people dont view so well. At the time that you posted it looked a lot easier to secure a lynch on JAT than FT. As well as Vivax, Clairty and I would not of voted FT but may have voted JAT. On July 28 2013 23:22 Oatsmaster wrote: Presuming im not horrible at playing scum, would scumoats do it? Fuck I wish marv was here to explain. It would not be the best scum play as you ideally would not want your target (JAT) to be lynched while eyes are also on a scum-buddy. It's not an impossible scum play though, just very difficult to pull off well (get a third party lynched). I'll concede on that last point as there would be no reason for scum to make such a big play on day 1. Still, why are you so sure that Paper is town? | ||
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Also, Koshi what are you doing? I see no good reason for you making that list. Get stuck in properly and stop sitting on a fence. | ||
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On July 28 2013 23:44 justanothertownie wrote: I will not be afk till the deadline if you want something from me just say it... I'll be here for over an hour till I leave. Nobody forces you to defend me if you think I am scummy. In fact you shouldn't. But if you do not defend yourself and I push my read then I am defending you by proxy. If I do not push my read then I am just playing badly. It's a lose/lose situation for me. It's not your fault ofcourse as I do not expect people to give up RL for this game. I just should of been more careful before I put myself in this situation. | ||
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Paper rejoins the game with a big post that is basically just a list of town reads. He does not provide particularly good reasons for his town reads. This is scummy through and through. I dont care about a list of his town reads, I want to know who he thinks is scum. + Show Spoiler + On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote: I have finally caught up! I wrote down some reads as I was catching up. First off I need to say some stuff about my play early on. I get why people would find me scummy so far, tone and sarcasm are hard to convey in text. This is why I will play a more standard game from now on. It isn't helping people find scum, if they are looking at me for joking and being sarcastic and not understanding that is all it is. hzflank leaning town - The more and more I read hz, the more I begin to like him. Not afraid to be abrasive and stand his ground. exarezee null - The argument of either Tofu or I having to be scum strikes me as odd. I don't see any interactions between FT and I, that would merit this stance. I would like a more in-depth analysis of this pairing. One thing that bugs me about exarezee is that he has reacted in a "noob" fashion to the two early votes on him. With his 100+ games played on the poker forums, which I have no reason to doubt, I just can't see why he would react so defensively. I am probably over thinking my read on exarezee, but I don't see him flipping scum at the moment, due his push on me which holds no substance and his reaction. Oats leaning town - I am really hoping Oats is town, his reads and post so far have been great. His comprehension of what is going on is probably the best so far. Clarity leaning town - Nothing really to elaborate on Clarity so far, I doubt most of the players would disagree. One great interaction I found so far was this. This interaction seems genuine. If either of hzflank or exarezee were scum, I would say the other isn't. CapJackSparrow null - I totally dig his RP gimmick so far and I am biased toward him in a good way. I want to say I lean town on him, but I would hold judgement on his alignment for now. Tofu null - I don't think his push on exarezee is the best. It seems to be grasping. The thing with making cases in general is you can always twist and skew people's filter to whatever you think is right. Initially I leaned town on FT, but after his case I retract that some what. Vayne leaning town - not sure what to think of vayne as of yet, he comes in every so often and drops some knowledge. I think his vote on clarity is pretty bad though. His filter strikes me as town though. Koshi leaning town - Koshi is a odd ball so far. I like that he town reads me, haha. I mostly agree with the lists he has made so far. I am going to read some filters more in-depth and meditate on what I have come up with so far. I don't have a strong scum read at the moment. Also I realize I haven't commented on some people who have posted, the reads above were what stuck out to me most on my initial read through. I already pointed out a specific thing that I did not like about this, which can be seen in this exchange. I encourage you all to read it from post 493 to 503. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=25#493 Paper's excuse for the inconstancy was that he did not read properly, but it was not one of those moments where you can tell that he was obviously being truthful. Paper refused to answer any of my questions. How am I possibly supposed to get a town read on him when he does not answer my questions? If Paper were town then he would of answered them as honestly as possible. Also, what does this actually tell us? It's pure fluff in an attempt to pad a post that contains zero useful information for town. On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote: This interaction seems genuine. If either of hzflank or exarezee were scum, I would say the other isn't. In general I have no idea how Paper even arrived at the useless town reads in that post because he did not explain them in a townie way. In addition, when Paper is pushed and finally gives us a scum read it is this: On July 28 2013 13:32 Paperscraps wrote: Right now I would lynch Vivax followed by JAT. Vivax's push on Vayne seems like an excuse to just put a vote up. JAT hasn't added anything new to the thread. He has just regurgitated other people's FoSes in his own words. The only good thing JAT has done is nominate Jack for captain, I would like rayn and Malongo to post more, before I actually made a decision. Also I disagree on your read of Oats, I think he has contributed and I lean town on him. You should read through Vayne's filter, he posts some really good stuff if you look for it. I don't see him flipping scum right now. He gives us a single sentence as to why he wants to lynch Vivax. A single sentence in a game with 400+ posts to use for information. Then he adds a second scum read. He never actually pushes either of these reads at all. Not once does he even direct a post at Vivax or JAT. Paper later says that he has changed his mind about me and thinks I may be scum. I engage him in conversation (linked above) and he does not even try to push his read on me at all. If Paper actually had a scum read on me then why did that conversation go as it did? How is any of this not scummy? How can people be saying that Paper's filter looks town? | ||
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On July 29 2013 00:32 Vivax wrote: Right now im interested into knowing who hzflanks other three scumspects are, if he has any besides paperscraps. Found him kinda scummy since the thing with stutters, where he used one argument on paperscraps but not on me. I need still to analyze his other posts more properly though. I suggest that's a good place to start looking if you want to find something weird about hz. I think I have made that fairly clear already and it would be based on associations after Paper's flip. I am perfectly willing to answer your question, but first I would like you to answer mine. Why do you want to know my other scum reads while I am obviously pushing hard on Paper? What benefit goes that give you or the town? | ||
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On July 29 2013 00:53 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm curious to see why you can't find Paperscraps' scum reads... I did find them, Captain. | ||
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On July 29 2013 00:57 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: ##Vote: Oatsmaster I give up. I don't want to play this game anymore. Why not? Also, I commented a lot of Paper's scum reads in my big post. Paper's scum reads are part of the problem. | ||
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On July 29 2013 00:43 Vivax wrote: I want to know if you're trying to figure out the game or just pushing a lynch from an easy tunnel. You tend to paint whatever ps does in unfavourable light, and seem to ignore other possibilities. It's my current subjective impression of your play, and i will reinforce it or correct it when i have the chance to post from a more comfortable place later. Do I honestly look like I am not trying to figure the game out? You think I am more scum than Paper because I am not scum-hunting? I have clearly done a lot of scum-hunting this game and as I pointed out in my case Paper clearly has not. I paint whatever Paper does in a scummy light because I think he is scum. I am not going to phrase things like I think Paper is a shining beacon of town while I am pushing a case on him. As I have already explained in this thread, my early vote on Paper was not meant to stick. I did not intend to tunnel him but I think that his posts were bad enough to warrant me pushing for his lynch. If I had to give a scum-read with no associations at this point then...I was going to say JAT but actually it would be Koshi, because he is not scum-hunting at all. His case on me was so bad that I felt I could not even reply to it without messing up the thread. However, if Paper flips red then I have made it very clear that I will be asking a lot of questions of Oats. Oh btw, your point against me was really bad. Out earlier exchange was not scummy and I explained my position from a town PoV. | ||
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On July 29 2013 01:12 Clarity_nl wrote: Still have no idea who you mean when you say mz me, I think. | ||
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On July 29 2013 01:33 Oatsmaster wrote: Koshi, why are you making lists in this game and in NONE of your other games? Why are you not providing much reasoning for any of those reads. Why do you not seem to care who dies? Did you see the irony in why he wants to lynch me? :p | ||
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On July 29 2013 01:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Why should you care who dies? Who the fuck has this kind of mindset as town? "I dont care who dies, I dont want it to be me. " GUYS WANNA LYNCH KOSHI? I might be reading too much into this, but that may be a trap aimed at me. Koshi knows that scum-me would jump on him for that but not push it too hard, because it would be too easy to just let townies finish him. I think I have figured out Koshi's play this game. Since out last game together he now checks under the bed for me before he goes to sleep. | ||
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So what are you doing this game? If you are town then you must realise that you position is becoming increasingly precarious. As town you are currently an easy lynch target that anyone can attack and anyone can vote for without even looking at all scummy. That is not a good position for a townie to get into. I am trying to figure out your gameplan here but the best I can see is that you have some kind of meta-vendatta against me and just want to catch me out as scum. You were better than this in the previous game. You must appreciate that if I cannot figure out how you are playing to win as town then it looks a lot like you are playing to win as scum. And do not tell me that you are not playing to win as I do not buy that sort of thing at all. Whose filters have you read recently? Did you find anything interesting? Do you have any in-game reasons for wanting to lynch me? | ||
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On July 29 2013 02:31 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Don't assume I'm quitting. I'm not in a good state to play right now. I will be back after the deadline with a FULL explanation of why I'm acting this way. I'm sorry to everyone but I can't handle playing right now. Seriously, don't feel the need to explain IRL reasons to us. Just come back and say IRL stuff done and then play the game again. | ||
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You need to start actually scum-hunting because so far there is no evidence of it. What do you think of my case on Paper? | ||
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That is not what I asked. What do you think of the reasons as to why I think Paper is scum? | ||
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On July 29 2013 02:54 Koshi wrote: I think there is a chance that you are tunneling paper to prove you are scumhunting and to hide your reads on other people. Because it is hard to fake reads on multiple people as scum. Hence my vote and shizzle. And what makes it more likely that I am doing that than actually just pushing my scum read? Is this your first game as scum, Koshi? Personally, I did not find it hard to fake reads on multiple people as scum, but judging by what you have posted so far in this game it seems that you do. Still, that is the best reason for me being scum that you have posted so far. Why did it take you so long to post that reason? It's not exactly an original reason either as it is basically what Vivax said earlier. If you are town then I still do not understand your game plan. Are you so confident that you knew that I would question you so that you could push your read on me that way? I did not see you asking a lot of questions to me. If you are town then you should be pushing me at this point. You truly are apathetic towards the lynch, though. Give me one good reason as to why you are not scum? | ||
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On July 29 2013 03:33 FirmTofu wrote: Fair enough. I still think you're scum. This reminds me of my newbie game with hzflank where I tunneled scum and no one believed me. We ended up lynching all the other scum first because everyone thought my scumread was too abrasive to be scum. History repeats itself. Actually after you died we did it the manly way and lynched your initial scum-read first, because he seemed the stronger of the two remaining scum :p | ||
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On July 29 2013 03:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Quick question, how does FT know CJS' identity? He accidentally posted on his Cora account. | ||
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Can someone else try, please? | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=30#587 | ||
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On July 29 2013 04:06 exarezee wrote: Nothing you can do with Koshi. Wait till Day 2. While I don't particularly like that he has no reads, it is Day 1 after all. I don't think that's he's convinced you are town. Diagree with his logic to vote a lurker, but he voted you because you are to him the scummiest of the active players. Depending on exactly who the scum team is, there is a good chance that a town-Koshi will not live to see day 2. This bothers me because if Koshi is town he should see that and he should really step up his game at this point. A cannot get my head around what a town-Koshi is doing at this point. | ||
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Tofu, you are either scum or you have been useless as town because you have just tunnelled Exar the whole game. That is great is he flips scum but he is not getting lynched anyway so you are wasting your time. On July 29 2013 05:39 FirmTofu wrote: If you hadn't made me filter dive Here's a tip: filter dive everyone. If you are town then you should absolutely of already done that. Most people have tiny filters anyway. This is especially true since I did make sure that attention should have been directed at Paper earlier. On July 29 2013 05:39 FirmTofu wrote: This is a decent post. He starts pushing a read and it looks like he is adapting based on new information (his read on hzflank has changed). Wrong, it is not a decent post. His read on me changed from town to scum to unsure, yet in this post that you call good he says: On July 29 2013 03:18 Paperscraps wrote: If I was scum, I would just be all amicable, maybe start some BS case against some one who made some questionable posts and call it a day. I think it is fair to say that I have not been particularly amicable this game and therefore it is surprising that Paper does not have a very strong town read on me. Also, Paper pushing a read at that point does not redeem him as I had already posted: On July 29 2013 00:20 hzflank wrote: He gives us a single sentence as to why he wants to lynch Vivax. A single sentence in a game with 400+ posts to use for information. Then he adds a second scum read. He never actually pushes either of these reads at all. Not once does he even direct a post at Vivax or JAT. And ofcourse Paper conveniently decided not to respond to my post, which is almost as bad as when he previously decided not to answer my questions. @Paper & Koshi If I think that you are scum then not answering my questions is not a good way to get me off of your backs. As I currently have a headache I am an easy target so how about you actually provide the requested information that would be useful to town. You know why I think you are scum: talk about it. | ||
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As far as I can tell, the only good town reason for Koshi's play this game is because he is convinced that I am scum. If he is not genuinely convinced that I am scum then he is likely scum. It's going to be hard for me to be objective, but I think he should at least post a case so that others can read it. | ||
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If anyone does want me to fully defend myself now then let me know. | ||
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On July 29 2013 06:55 Koshi wrote: Why are we ignoring Malongo? Do you want me to fully answer him now? His problem with me stems from philosophical differences regarding lynching lurkers. After that he clutches at straws. He seems to genuinely think that I am scum, though. I never responded to him earlier because until this page he talked about me and not too me, and since I have spent a lot of time replying to people doing that this game there was no town benefit to messing up the thread discussing philosophical differences. Do you want me to fully answer every point that you and Malongo just made? | ||
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On July 29 2013 07:00 Koshi wrote: Unless there are more votes going to pile up for you I guess I don't see why you should. I still don't see why you think Paper is so scummy for the pas 40 hours though. I did not think that Paper was scummy 40 hours ago. I disliked that he said that everything he had posted up until a point should be ignored so I voted for him. I made multiple posts which included something hinting that my vote was flexible. I fully intended to move my vote once Paper posted again, but then his posts made me think that he actually was scum. You think I have tunneled Paper all game? What on earth do you think my conversation with you was about? You think that I was scum setting you up for a mislynch, right? I say that I was town trying to open you up to get a read on you. I was attacking you, and therefore not tunneling Paper. | ||
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Paper certainly did not give me a reason to move my vote. Some other people came close, but without Paper also helping them it was not enough. | ||
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It started with the list. You seen so sure of how I play this game so you should have noticed that when I think that someone is scum I start to ask them questions directly. When I was questioning Paper I was trying to get a better read on him. If he had given me good answers I may not have thought that he was scum. Why do you think I get annoyed when people ignore my direct questions? Why do you think that I go out of my way to answer questions directed at me? This is Mafia 101 here. | ||
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On July 29 2013 07:09 Koshi wrote: Malongo quoted a post in which paper responded to you. Paper's response to me was that he did not want to answer my questions. That is about as good as your Unicorn response. | ||
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On July 29 2013 07:08 Malongo wrote: A) When you said the guy was not answering you directly. hint: he did Those are not answers. The first is him saying that he did not read the thread properly, which is absolutely useless to everyone involved. On July 28 2013 18:25 Paperscraps wrote: Maybe I am missing something, but reading through Oats' filter he doesn't push on you. He doesn't even directly call you scum. I am not sure what you are looking for here. I believe what he has said about you so far is decent. I really don't see how it contradicts my read. Stepping on toes = abrasive. Is your gripe with him calling you defensive? On July 28 2013 18:29 Paperscraps wrote: Oh well I misread that. Shouldn't be posting this late at night, haha. I disagree with Oats on that point. The second is him refusing to answer my questions which again is useless. On July 28 2013 18:31 Paperscraps wrote: I don't really plan on answering it either. I shouldn't have to go through another person's whole filter and outline what I think are good reads or insight. You can choose to agree or disagree. That is all that really matters. Do you expect me to think that Paper is town after that? If I thought that Paper was town after that then you should be worried. On July 29 2013 07:08 Malongo wrote: B) When you said *how pleople find Paper townie posting. hint: null =/= townie You said yourself that most people see Paper as null towards Townie. I think that most people should of seen paper as scummy. How exactly does that make me scum? We can have the lurker discussion later in depth. If you want I am happy to go into my mafia game theory with you, but now is not the time. | ||
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Like everyone I may be naturally prone to tunneling which is why I actively try to avoid it. If you read my filter then you really should see this. You seem to think I am scum because I lied but I do not think that I lied at all. | ||
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On July 29 2013 07:24 Vivax wrote: Jesus fuck why can't we lynch JAT. This is a bit from PS which I find pretty townie. HZ actually used this as point AGAINST him, which was one of the points I found myself disagreeing with. The change of mind shit after rereading is something rather townie imho. Is my reasoning for using this against him bad? Read this post for some recent reasoning. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=40#786 To be specific, when reads change the important thing is for other people to be able to understand why a read changes from a town perspective. Can you see the reason why Paper's read changed? | ||
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We really need JAT and Paper to start posting. | ||
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On July 29 2013 07:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is noone other than Clarity commenting my case on Koshi? On July 29 2013 07:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: First he says "who are you to decide who do we lynch. -> Implies there are other lynch candidates than FT/JAT/Paper With all due respect Rayn, I doubt that anyone has a solid town read on you at this point and therefore it is correct that Koshi should question this. Personally I did think that there was a fourth lynch candidate, which was Koshi. On July 29 2013 07:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Then he questions hz, his scumread about Malongo, or rather asks why are we ignoring Malongo. When hz answers him about Malongo, he says "no you should not talk about him". Koshi's whole game seems to be that he thinks I am scum but he cannot figure out how to get me lynched. He might of just thought that there was no point in me discussing it today as I was not going to be lynched anyway. To be honest, that is what I thought. My take on Koshi is simple at this point. The only useful thing he has done all game is attempt to push a scum read on me. As I have said, his whole game revolves around him thinking that I am scum. If he genuinely believes that I am scum up until now then I can believe that he might be town. Because Koshi has done nothing that did not involve me, I cannot find any other reasons as to why I believe he is scum. Conclusion: If Koshi really thinks that I am scum then I do not have a scum read on Koshi. | ||
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On July 29 2013 07:46 Paperscraps wrote: It is a decent post, slightly biased through the lens of hzflank who already at that point scum reads me. You are seeing what you want to see in my posts. I could defend every point you made against me, but right now I don't think that would be beneficial since I am beginning to town read you again. We could go into the psychology of mafia and how people want to think their first choice is right, but really you should realize with all the flak I am getting from everyone right now, the chances of me flipping scum is very low. I am all alone here, this is day 1. Tofu made a pretty big shift in the recent pages, going from totally being against my lynch to voting me. I am not saying I don't have reasons to be voted with what everyone is throwing at me, but it doesn't seem like a natural shift at all. Where did his backbone go? Does he not scum read exarezee anymore? Is exarezee bussing me now? A closer look at Tofu right now would be great. @anyone How much time until the deadline? The tone was intentionally biased, the content was not. The thing is that when I first voted on you it was a gamble and I have no reason to care whether or not my initial vote was correct or not. Even I am not arrogant enough to expect to find scum at such an early point. The reasons why I think you are scum came later and that is why my case is completely focussed on your later posts. You need to appreciate that in order for me or anyone else to think that my case is incorrect then we need to be able to see how your posts were more likely to come from town than from scum. You need to address the points mentioned in my case so that we can do this. | ||
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On July 29 2013 08:13 Koshi wrote: How many times do I need to say that I think JAT might be new as opposed to be scum. I don't want to lynch any of them. But I prefer lynch over no lynch. You think they are both town. Did you just flip a coin? Can you give us any reason as to why JAT is more town than Paper? | ||
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On July 29 2013 08:29 Koshi wrote: Why do I really want to lynch paper now? And why do I have a feeling we are heading towards a no lynch? On second thought you have a really good reason for voting for Paper. Your plan is still to lynch me as soon as you can. You think that Paper is town so that will help your case against me. Also, a no lynch will not happen. Only a fool would cause that. | ||
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On July 29 2013 08:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: Vivax i can kill Ft too. Go for it? Did you just claim Vig? wtf. Either shoot someone now or if your reads are right then scum may just RB you at night. If that was a Vig claim then it was really really bad timing. | ||
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On July 29 2013 08:43 Koshi wrote: misslynch incoming. You people are a joke. You call us a joke after the shitty game that you have played? Read this game back when it is over and see just how wrong you have been. | ||
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On July 29 2013 09:08 Koshi wrote: So. This has been fun. Now let's hear why you were tunneling this guy for 40 hours hz. You got 24 hours. As I have already explained multiple times, I was not tunneling him for 40 hours. | ||
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On July 29 2013 11:49 Koshi wrote: Here is the small mistake hzflank made. Here in this comment hz somewhat admits that he knows that paper is town, and he is being scared that when this flip happens, Koshi will use it to prove he is scum. This comment is full off scared scum. No fucking townie would be on the paper wagon so long and make this comment. Why would a townie suddenly doubt himself? Or suddenly be so scared to be lynched for being wrong? hzflank was also lurking during the heat of the lynch. That's another scumtell. Because nothing feels so good as scum to see the bickering of town when they are about to lynch another townie. I know the feeling from nuclear. It's 5 am and I got to go to work in 2.5 hours. Been a while since I woke up i nthe middle of the night and solved a problem. 'Somewhat admits'? You are not this bad Koshi, and therefore you are scum. That was my impression upon joining the game this morning and the only reason why I am hesitant to go deep into it is that I worry I am being OMGUS. I will go properly into it though as at this point you are really likely to be scum. Let me ask you this, assuming that I am scum and that you are town, what was my motivation for making the above post? | ||
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On July 29 2013 19:38 Koshi wrote: I already told you once (and a couple other people as well) I came to the realisation that JAT could be new as opposed to be scum.I don't know if it was because of that 1 post or because I decided to look at his filter again. JAT How many mafia games have you played before? If you say a lot I won't find you suddenly extremely scummy but I will expect a lot more from you next cycle. If you say you are new your opinion will also be judged accordingly. TLDR: please be honest, lying is bad. Why did you not attempt to clarify your read on JAT by asking him that question before you actually changed your read? Here is where your read changes, but you do not actually question JAT at all. On July 28 2013 04:41 Koshi wrote: Oh I missed that question earlier. I was wrong about you. I don't think you are scummy anymore. I thought you were scummy because of your first 2 posts. But now it seems more like you didn't had a good feel into this game yet and tried your luck with making 2 cases. I am actually leaning town on you now. | ||
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Me being scared is not in the slightest bit consistent with your scum read on me. Your read on me is based on the fact that you think that I am good at playing scum. In addition, If I were scum and I did not actually want Paper to flip, why did I not just switch my vote onto you? | ||
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On July 29 2013 19:45 Koshi wrote: I could have asked it ealier. But I didn't. Sue me. 'I could of but I didn't' does not help any of us. If you are town then you should want other people to understand your reasoning and your motivations. | ||
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When did I try? When Rayn was asking people to vote for you I could of done so. If I were scum I am sure it would not of been hard for me to come up with a reason. | ||
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On July 29 2013 19:48 Koshi wrote: You must think VA is really scummy. oh wait. How do you know whether or not I think that VA is scummy? You gave not asked me. IIRC I have not talked much about Vayne in this game but when I did I thought that he was scummy. I do not see why you would think that I do not think Vaybe to be scummy. | ||
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And then you posted a case and I said that I could genuinely believe it. If I wanted to lynch you instead of Paper I could of just tore into you over that case and started to push you hard. Koshi, every thing that you are posting is false. You have been completely full of shit throughout this entire exchange. You are not trying to discover whether or not I am scum and you admit it. You are trying to make posts that reduce the chance of you being lynched and you are failing miserably. | ||
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On July 29 2013 19:52 Koshi wrote: Did you forget yesterday? Or is it today contradiction day? That is not me saying that Vayne is not scummy. That is me saying that it would be bad play by me to push for a lynch on Vayne at that point. And I gave a reason as to why. You are not this bad, Koshi. You cannot suddenly be this bad. | ||
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On July 29 2013 19:58 Vivax wrote: Hey flank, where did your fancy JAT scumread go. Off the top of my head, I thought someone should day Vig him to make the day 1 lynch easier. As we approached the vote I thought that Paper and Koshi were both more likely to flip scum than JAT, so it would of been stupid for me to push for his lynch. I was already pushing hard enough for Paper's lynch.. At this point I think that Koshi is much more likely to be scum than JAT. There are also other people that I want to look into. In fact calling JAT scum during this night phase would be too easy for me. JAT looks scummy due to sheeping the lynch early and generally being inactive, but I cannot actually read more into that until I or someone else questions him more. | ||
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On July 29 2013 19:52 Vivax wrote: What I also noticed is that Flank agreed with me on JAT being scummy early in the game, but doesn't give a fuck about him for the rest of the game. He also said he was reluctant to pursue him cause he didn't trust Oats, which is kinda bullshit, I've almost never seen a townier Oats than in this game. Your day 1 supposed town read on me was based on the fact that I thought Oats was scum but then changed my mind, right? Why do you now say that it is bullshit that I would have a scum read on Oats? I did not trust Oats and I do not fully trust anyone. It should be obvious as to why that is. | ||
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On July 29 2013 20:10 Koshi wrote: So you thought me and paper were scum but you made a comment about me going to use paper his green flip to pressure you. lololol. There is a very big difference between thinking that someone is scum and knowing that someone is scum. Especially on day 1. | ||
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On July 29 2013 20:18 Vivax wrote: You said he was voting PS so he could push you in case he turned up town, which is nonsensical for someone who thought PS was scum. You know my half-a-dozen scumreads, if you want to help me get a better read of you, could you give me your opinion on them?If they aren't your scumbuddies it should end up being unbiased and you have nothing to fear. I thought that Paper was the most likely to flip scum on day 1. I think that it is rare to actually lynch scum on day 1, so that means that I thought there was a 50% or so chance of Paper being scum. I thought that there was less chance of each other person being scum. Clarity is probably my strongest town read. He seemed to play a solid day 1. We got off to a bad start but he gradually became more town to me throughout the day. He seemed to be posting sensibly around the time of the lynch and I think I agreed with his entire attitude towards the lynch. I am not particularly comfortable in giving a read on Exar as I was not diligent enough in reading him around lynch time and I need to go back and do that at some point today. I was town on Exar after his day 1 exchange with Tofu. I disagree with some of his game theory regarding a single person trying to push more than 1 person at a lynch, but that alone is not enough to make me think that he Is scum. I do need to fully read him though, as I get the feeling that I am missing something or that there is something there that should make my read better, one way or the other. I am also thinking that Rayn is town. As scum he would not of needed to be so active around the lynch. I liked that he finally switched his vote to Paper to avoid the no lynch. To completely agree with his points on you (Vivax) regarding a no lynch, as there is no good town motivation to attempt to cause a no lynch. This is game theory again though, and not enough to make me lean heavily scum on someone. If we had unlimited Vig shots I would say just shoot JAT now (I am not sure if he is currently the best Vig target, but I would not complain). I do not think he has town a single thing that is obviously town. At this early stage of the lynch cycle he already seems like he might fly under the lynch radar though, hence him being a good Vig target. I do not like to sheep, but considering what happened on day 1 I need to be a bit careful (for the town's sake, not mine) so I will be willing to consolidate my vote onto JAT if the time comes and without question. I doubt that JAT will be able to make me change my mind regarding that. I am a bit annoyed by Vayne's day 1 play. Even if he refuses to actually scum hunt he should have a duty to at least let other townies get a read on him. I expect a lot more from Vayne on day 2 and hopefully I will be able to get a better read. I absolutely would not push for a Vayne lynch, but I would not fight against it either. | ||
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On July 29 2013 20:28 Koshi wrote: So hz believes 2 complete different things at the same time. 1) Koshi and Paper are scum 2) Koshi is pushing paper lynch because Koshi thinks paper is town Which is impossible. And pretty close to impossible to think as a town player. I believed that Koshi and/or Paper might be scum. Obviously I did not have a 100% read on either of you. I was trying to work out why town-Koshi would switch his vote to Paper so easily. My conclusion was that it was because you thought that Paper was town and that it would help your case against me. I was wrong though and unfortunately I was not thinking clearly enough. That is actually a better reason for scum-Koshi to vote for Paper than for town-Koshi to. It is easier to say that in hindsight though, now that I know that Paper was town. On July 29 2013 20:30 Koshi wrote: A scum player on the other hand 1) knows that both are town but pretend otherwise 2) can assume koshi is pushing paper because koshi thinks paper is town A scum player would not even need to try to work out why Koshi was voting for Paper. A scum player would just go with it and settle for lynching a townie. | ||
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I said many times during day 1 that I was not tunnelling Paper and I did try to give him a chance to make me move my vote off of him. At the end of the day, it came down to voting for who I thought was the most likely to be scum. I also pushed my read hard, and those two things are all that any town player can do on day 1. The points that Koshi just made make him look worse than me. I was very obviously trying to decide whether to move my vote onto Koshi or not (at the time Rayn was asking people to do it), and one of the first things that anyone should do in that situation is to try to work out whether Koshi's vote on Paper was well justified from a town perspective. All those posts by Koshi really do is make his own vote look less justified, where as I think I played as town should. Throughout this entire game some people have accused me for one thing while another group of people accuse me for the opposite thing. And ofcourse if I do not take a strong stance then both groups would accuse me of sitting on fences. At this point the obvious thing that I am doing is trying to work out which accusations I agree with and which I do not, as the ones that I do not agree with are more likely to come from scum. | ||
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On July 29 2013 22:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't know. You new look to the game on N1 is interesting and i agree on it to some extent. I still think FT is scum though. I would lynch hz instantly if there was that "Oats case" comment. I am sick of this now. You do not think that one paragraph makes a person town if everything else about them makes them scum. I did not like it when Vivax had a town on me for that reason and I did not like it when you repeated it. I will let you in on a little secret: that paragraph was constructed. It was true, but it was also completely re-written because I did not like the first version. I would of posted that paragraph as either town or scum. People need to base their read on me on more than that single paragraph, because even if you are correct about my alignment for now you are reading me badly and that single paragraph will not make me look town forever. | ||
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On July 29 2013 23:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why would you want me to take a relook of you if you are town? You are making me waste my time looking into someone who is town -> not helping finding mafia. Are you trying to buy town credit with reverse psychology? No, I am saying two things. Firstly your reason for having me as a town read makes you look like scum. This is because you just said that everything about me looks like scum but one paragraph made you completely change your mind. That paragraph was not good enough to give someone a town read on me if everything else I have done makes me look like scum. Secondly, I intend to continue playing in a similar fashion to what I have been doing so far. If everything (other than that paragraph) makes me look like scum to you then I will soon look extremely scummy to you and I may now have a new magic paragraph to change your mind. Therefore, if you are town and want to maintain a correct read on me then you need to look at the other parts of my play. | ||
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On July 29 2013 23:23 Oatsmaster wrote: You could possibly fake a scumslip find. FT cant. ggnore I do not agree with this. I know that this is going to make me look arrogant, but Oats you were obs in the first and only game that I played scum, and I faked a scum-slip find at the very start of day 2 in that game. FT has a lot more experience than I do. It is not that hard to fake, in my opinion. | ||
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On July 29 2013 23:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Thats a way different kind of scumslip hzflank. FT found something that wasnt actually near a scumslip but somehow misread it. Tell me, would scum misread shit like that? no. FT's was better than mine, but I am still not willing to think that someone is solidly town due one single point or post. Basically, I do not believe in Town-slips. | ||
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On July 29 2013 23:46 exarezee wrote: And to address your main case against me Virax. I lessened my scum read on papers when he posted that his entire day of posts was a joke. The higher the chance I think he was actually joking the whole time, then, the less scummy I deem his posts. However, the next time he comes to the thread, he goes back on the fact that his entire day was a joke. He said that he was trying to get a read from me. Is trying to get a read from someone a joke? The rest of his day's posts were poor too. That is what reinforced my read on him as a scum. Just to be clear here, are you saying that this is what made Paper's look less scummy to you? On July 27 2013 15:04 Paperscraps wrote: TLDR; Besides the first question on my first post, I haven't been serious at all. Personally I thought that was the scummiest thing that Paper had posted up until that point. | ||
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On July 29 2013 23:09 Oatsmaster wrote: So bad tunneling townie or scum Vivax? I dunno, Im willing to let him stay alive for a bit and lynch other dudes first. Oats, when you get the chance I would like you to go back this and elaborate. Or even just tell me if this still holds true now (only an hour later, I know). Do you you think Exar is town or scum right now? | ||
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On July 29 2013 19:34 justanothertownie wrote: But to answer your question: gut-wise and without thinking it through very well the 4 persons I would probably lynch are: koshi, hzflank, maybe stutters/vayne and you Take this with a grain of salt. Wait a second... You would lynch both Koshi and me? Why? What is it about the interactions between Koshi and I that look scum-scum to you? | ||
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On July 30 2013 01:11 Vivax wrote: He said to take this with a grain of salt. So he can tell you his fake reads and still justify it when people realize he's lying. He also mentioned you as a scum read. (Vivax). @JAT In addition to my previous question: Do you possibly think that the conversation this morning between Vivax, Koshi and myself was between 3 scum? If so, how? | ||
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On July 29 2013 20:45 justanothertownie wrote: Ask me this or any other question again when I'm back at home, please. I will answer them. All I can say at the moment is that hz and you could very well both be scum. I could imagine hz encouraging you to attack him in the thread because it's not very likely for him to get lynched. Besides I don't believe he has any reluctance to bus you hard. I should read thoroughly before I post. Perhaps you have already answered my previous questions, but if you want to elaborate on them then please do so. I have a new question for you. Before starting to play this game, did you read any other games on this forum? If so, would you please link the game. | ||
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On July 30 2013 01:50 Vivax wrote: Btw I'll be shooting Vayne tonight, cause he's a jackass. lol, I had the same thought: If I were scum I would so shoot Vayne tonight. Also if I were Vig I would let him survive the night and day vig him 10 seconds into day 2. | ||
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Stutters disagrees with both of Tofu's scum reads. Stutters also says that he is going to check out FT a bit closer. On July 29 2013 04:26 Stutters695 wrote: Reread it, he's so obviously town I find it hard to believe you can't see it. On July 29 2013 04:26 Stutters695 wrote: And on that note, going to check out FT a bit closer. On July 29 2013 04:53 Stutters695 wrote: Also Tofu read page 5 and 6 of his filter. That isn't scum responses at all. Stutters later says he has not yet looked at Tofu but has him as null. On July 29 2013 06:16 Stutters695 wrote: FT: I haven't looked at him too much. I'll have to get back to you on that. I had him kinda null but your post makes sense. Stutters thinks that Paper is scum but is willing to sheep Rayn onto Tofu. On July 29 2013 06:18 Stutters695 wrote: Onto today's lynch, Paper is my choice. Because Rayn has a good track record and we think similarly, if Paper doesn't get traction I'll sheep him onto FT. I don't want a no lynch. Stutters is also willing to sheep Rayn onto Koshi. On July 29 2013 08:01 Stutters695 wrote: Hmm you're right. Tbh I didn't really pay attention to him in I swear because of what I heard in the NWM postgame. His reads were good in I swear. I could get behind this then, he really doesn't have an excuse in that case. Stutters changes his mind regarding a no lynch. On July 29 2013 08:55 Stutters695 wrote: I'm like 99% sure paper is town now. Wouldn't a no lynch be better if people won't switch? Stutters, you obviously had a very strong town read on Rayn as soon as he joined the game. Why? Considering that you disagreed with both of Tofu's scum reads and said that you were going to look into him, why did you not look into him until Rayn prompted you to? You also seemed to completely sheep Rayn as your read on Paper changed. In fact I would say that since Rayn began to participate all you did was just completely sheep him. Would you be a darling and perhaps provide an original opinion in future? Thanks. | ||
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On July 30 2013 02:04 Koshi wrote: Please comment, rate and subscribe On July 30 2013 02:00 Koshi wrote: FUCCCKKKKK I AM FAILING SO HARD RIGHT NOW I agree. 50%. Subscribed! | ||
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On July 30 2013 02:22 VayneAuthority wrote: He doesn't have to be scum. He shot me as vig in carnival cruise mafia but he was town there so thats not alignment indicative. However, the rest of his play is. Read his filter in roulette and compare it to this and please tell me he isn't playing exactly the same Vayne for president! Vivax obviously scum then. I am playing the same as I did in newbie 44 where I was scum. Stutters is playing like he did in Basterd where he was scum. Rayn plays like this every time that he is scum, in fact for the first 36 hours Rayn played exactly like he did in Roulette where Rayn was scum. Scum team is Vivax, hzflank, Stutters and Rayn. Game is solved. | ||
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On July 30 2013 02:33 justanothertownie wrote: To hz: I read a few games before I made my account to start playing myself but I cannot be bothered to check exactly which ones - I skimmed through most of them anyway. Stormmafia comes to mind - really cool game. But I guess the goal of your question was the last Newbie game where you were scum. Yes, I read that one. Actually I just thought that you using the phrase 'in the thread' was a little odd if this is your first ever game of Mafia and you are town. But you would of seen scum QT's if you read old games. | ||
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That is my reasoning. If you do not believe that reasoning could come from town that is fine, but I am certainly not going to start to lie about why I did something. Also remember what my opinion of Koshi was and is. Either he is scum who feels the need to tunnel me out of desperation to look town, or he is town who is frothing at the mouth at the thought of catching me in my scummy ways. | ||
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On July 30 2013 03:53 exarezee wrote: That's not the point. You're trying to twist my argument into something else. The point is NOBODY has looked. And this I find troubling. You mean nobody looked or people did look but did not find anything worth bringing up at this point. Paper was sincere but Paper had no more knowledge than the other 9 town in the game. | ||
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Also, there is a serious problem with your gut. You should see a doctor. | ||
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Conclusion is that the case is not strong enough to stick if Clarity is scum. It might stick if Clarity is town but that's pointless anyway. The case needs to be strengthened to be useful. I like the technical nature of the case. Vivax obviously put some work into it and I had never thought to look at a case in that way before. The problem is that town sometimes write cases in that way also. Particularly at the start of day 1 when Clarity made that case. If Clarity had made that case on Tofu on day 2 then it would look a lot more like scum. At the start of day 1 you do not really expect cases to be good or to really stick. It was probably a case to get a reaction. I would not want to vote on Clarity based on Vivax's case. | ||
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On July 30 2013 06:26 Vivax wrote: I have a question, what point is there in Malongo sorting people activity wise at all? It doesn't have any relevance for his conclusion. He could simply tell what he doesn't like about hzflank, instead he feels like posting some fancy summary before he does that. I don't know if you think this helps, but the only person that Malongo has pushed as being scum is me, and I think that Malongo is likely town. I can understand him making that read on me from a town point of view, as long as I make a few small assumptions about his personality and experience. I think there is more chance that Malongo just needs more experience than there is of Malongo being scum. Either way, he is not a good lynch target for day 2. | ||
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On July 30 2013 06:35 Vivax wrote: Hzflank, if I had the ability to vig stutters right now, would you agree on it? Hmm, depends if I knew if there was actually a doc on you. I would prefer a Vig to save his shot until day 2 because I have an awesome conspiracy theory. So if you will 100% survive the night I would ask you to save the shot If you had to fire now then I would not be against a shot on Stutters as he has a reasonable chance of being scum. I think that JAT has a higher chance of flipping scum, but Stutters is up there. If Stutters flipped red then I would want to lynch JAT next anyway though, so I would say just shoot JAT instead. | ||
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I don't think that your take on Koshi and I comes from a town perspective. It does not appear to be a scum-scum relationship in the slightest and I think that you know something that I do not. Look at the very first conversation that I had with Koshi here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=34#661 That is not scum-scum. Even if you argue that the later day 1 conversation was, the night conversation was not. If you are going to make such a wild claim then either I need to understand how you arrived at that position or I think that you are scum. On day 1 you were pressured and with the way the game went it turned out that a large number of people defended you by proxy (including me). If we were to Vig one of those people such as Stutters and they were to flip red then I would still think that you are scum and I would still want to lynch you. By the way, regarding Koshi and me: It is going to be a mess on day 2. Regardless of his alignment he is going to push hard at me and I am going to have to make a series of long and possibly boring posts and everyone is going to wish that we would both just stop posting. This is not a scum-scum thing. | ||
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On July 30 2013 06:51 Vivax wrote: Can you explain the bolded to me though? Do you auto-assume that stutters would flip red if shot? I think that Stutters would probably flip red, but if I approach it in that order then I am setting myself up for a big fail. Attempting to name the entire scum team when we have no scum flips is foolish, but if I did so then Stutters would be in there. I would prefer to go one step at a time. | ||
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On July 30 2013 07:21 Vivax wrote: Do you disagree with what he just brought up about FirmTofu? He brings up something quite good. I noticed what he brought up at the time that Tofu posted it. I was really tired/unwell at the time so I may have read it wrong, but I had a different take on it to Stutters. Tofu named a 4 man scum team based on Paper being scum and then implied that he would completely re-evaluate it based on Paper's flip. That is not scummy for the reason that Stutters is saying it is scummy. If I want to call it scummy then it would be because the 4 names Tofu put together made no sense as a group, but realistically when anyone names a 4 man scum team on day 1 it is going to be horrible. In fact I do not agree with Tofu's reads in general this game, but they are at least believable so I do not think that makes him scum. | ||
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On July 30 2013 07:20 FirmTofu wrote: @hzflank What are your top scum reads right now? JAT. There are a lot of things that I do not like about Rayn, but I need to wait until I have a clearer head before I get stuck into it tomorrow, as I expect that it will be a slug-fest. I could totally see Stutters being scum with those two, but I would rather go at JAT and Rayn first. If I am completely wrong about those people then I would think that Koshi is scum. But I need to at least get a better read on JAT and Rayn before I think about trying to lynch Koshi. Koshi being scum does not fit well with JAT and Rayn being scum. | ||
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On July 30 2013 07:30 Vivax wrote: More specifically, do you think that the point mentioned could have come from a scum stutters? Sorry for the delay, that question requires better analysis than I am capable of right now :p First I will answer an easier question: I think that could totally have come from a town Stutters. If you look at it in thread then Stutters already had a scum-read growing on Tofu when Tofu posted the list then and then Stutters flipped out thinking that Tofu was definitely scum. Considering how things unfolded it does make sense for town-Stutters to bring this up now. As for that coming from Scum-Stutters... It could, but it is not likely. It's still only one post and a single post can be faked. Going over that post thoroughly is making me doubt that Stutters is scum though. It looks so so much like Stutters made that post from a town point of view. I need to think about this more, but I would definitely not want to kill Stutters right now. | ||
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On July 30 2013 07:59 Stutters695 wrote: Here is the problem with that line of thinking. When the PS wagon started rolling, he was against it initially. He concocted two completely association based scumteams to allow himself to get on the wagon without being completely scummy for it. He offers no justification for the associations beyond basic "buddying" nor any explanation for why Mal/Koshi can't be scum if Paper wasn't. He isn't contributing in any meaningful way and is skirting actually contributing in favor of telling us what we want to hear. This isn't the same tofu from I swear 2 Devil's advocate here: Could Tofu not of done that because it is majority lynch and he just really wanted to avoid a no lynch? I am having a hard time getting my head around people who see a relationship between Mal and Koshi. It;s probably because they have both only tunnelled me so I have a unique perspective on them, I really do not think that there is a relationship between Mal and Koshi. I will make sure to go over all of this (Tofu) again tomorrow. Tofu has been null to me for a very long time now so I should probably try to force a refresh. | ||
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On July 30 2013 08:23 justanothertownie wrote: So, I thought about it and I came to the conclusion that you are absolutely right, hz. Koshi and you are not both scum - it's just you. If I had read Koshis case on you closely before I posted this 4 lynch candidates I wouldn't have put him in there. His case against you makes a shitton of sense and I can and will add content to that shortly. I underestimated Koshi because I read a game he played in where his play was extremely weird and because of his lazy play (lynch-lists with only lurkers) D1. Koshi and I were your top two scum reads. You should of read our exchanges closely before you formed those reads. | ||
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I know that some of you will think that this is a terrible play. Considering the setup a day two mislych is likely to be really bad for town. If the NK has gone through then we need 7 to lynch. Three people have already said that want to lynch me today and at least two others think that I am scum. People will probably think that I should just man up and play standard. However, I was the person who pushed hardest for the lynch on town on day one. There is going to be an attempt to lynch me today, and in order to thwart it I need to be a driving force in lynching someone else. If I do that and accidentally target town then I am going to have a really hard time defending myself on day 3 and scum will likely win. So sorry for being a pussy but I am making this play. I am claiming Veteran. If we have a Vig and he can shoot me now then we will be confirmed town to each other. We will be confirmed same-alignment to the rest of the town and they should think that we are both likely town, especially if there is no second Vet or Vig. Sorry if this is a terrible play, but I think that it has a reasonable chance of making it more likely for town to win the game. I could not wait until later in the day as I cannot risk the only Vig using his shot on someone else (if we even have a Vig). If we don't have a Vig I realise that my Vet claim is not great. But to be honest, there would have to be a drastic change in the game for me to be a night kill target any time soon. I realise that I have put myself in a bad position for a Vet role, but if Paper flipped red then I thought I would be a good NK target. Also, you now know why my tone has been more aggressive than usual this game. If it's worth anything my silly super soft-doctor claim during the night was an attempt to draw the night kill. I doubt that it will have worked. If there is no Vig then take this as you will. It would probably be null to me but that's for you to decide. | ||
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On July 30 2013 09:05 Stutters695 wrote: No no no Hz. Sent said in the thread vets die to the vig Meh, town has no way to know that I did not know that before I made that post, and scum knows not to shoot me :/ Sorry. | ||
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On July 30 2013 09:21 VayneAuthority wrote: I have a guilty check on malongo. awaiting his response! Considering that there is no framer in the game, should you not of cop checked me? | ||
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Actually I might of unintentionally lied there. The Vig role description was completely changed since I read the setup, which was at the time of my first post in this thread (regarding voting rules). I did not actually signup until the next day. The Vig description was completely changed at some point after I made my first post, though. | ||
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On July 30 2013 09:33 VayneAuthority wrote: very astute of you. Vig and anything else should not do anything until malongo responds, miller is always a possibility No Miller on the setup. Only a possible GF can mess with the cop, and obviously that is not the case here. Either you are scum or Malongo is. | ||
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On July 30 2013 09:39 Clarity_nl wrote: Vayne here's a question, if you get a green check what do you do, just roll over and On the other hand, the game started with 10 town and 4 scum. To make that balanced it is likely that town has at least 3 PRs, especially if scum have a role-blocker. Therefore, fake-claiming Cop would be too big of a risk for Vayne and he would likely be countered by the real cop. | ||
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As scum Vaybe fake claims cop for town cred. He does not want to be counter-claimed by a real cop, but if he is then at least the scum know to shoot the cop on night 2. Especially since there is no confirmed doctor (I claimed vet = less likely to be a doctor?). | ||
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Do you still think that I am likely scum? | ||
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On July 30 2013 10:10 justanothertownie wrote: I mean rayne as scum is possible but why do I have to think Vayne is scum? They are either both scum or both town. I will explain it fully tomorrow when I have my full brain function. Basically, I put myself in your shoes and ran through possible scenarios. If you are town then Vayne's cop claim was a response to my role claim and the scum team needed to quickly setup a mislych because one of their team was right in the firing line after my claim. It does not matter though because I believe that you are in fact scum. This is a rough way for you to go out in your first game, sorry ;( | ||
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On July 30 2013 09:05 Stutters695 wrote: No no no Hz. Sent said in the thread vets die to the vig Scum would of laughed their asses off if a Vig had killed me. | ||
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On July 30 2013 10:49 Clarity_nl wrote: Dunno, I'll tell you tomorrow. Why are you so convinced vayne's fakeclaim HAS to be town Vayne? I mean, if JAT flips red that probably confirms him but otherwise I can think of some scenarios where he's scum. So can I, but we should lynch JAT first because if he does flip red then Vayne is likely town, and we all agree that JAT is scummy anyway. | ||
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On July 30 2013 10:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: What are the scenarios? Short version: you and Vayne could be both scum. From your PoV it should not be an issue as I do not believe that Vayne can be scum while you are town. If JAT flips red then I don't even need to consider it. If he flips green then we can get into some crazy scenarios. | ||
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On July 30 2013 10:54 Clarity_nl wrote: But he fakeclaimed, and no cop counterclaimed (although a smart one wouldnt have) Why does that make vayne more likely town? Easy solution. Scum-Vayne only makes that play if he is the Godfather, because otherwise if JAT flips town then Vayne gets checked by the real cop. I think that if Vayne is scun then Rayn is also. If you were RBed then we likely have a real cop so if JAT flips green... Real cop checks Rayn N2 and acts accordingly based on all the info we have available D3. | ||
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I need sleep. Really really I need sleep. It was an amusing couple of hours. | ||
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During N1 the following people all but confirmed that they would vote for me D2 and nothing would change their minds: Koshi Malongo JAT Towards the end of N2 the following people changed their read one me to scum, even they they have not scum-hunted in my direction much throughout the whole game: Rayn Vayne Clarity Exar (to a lesser extent) Those 4 people positioned themselves nicely so that they could vote for me without looking like scum. I was totally being set up for a D2 lynch. What we do not know is why. Was it forced or did it happen naturally? Also notice that Vivax, Stutters and to a lesser extent Tofu and Oats were positioned so that they could not easily vote on me, and would at least have to do some work first. CJS was basically inactive. Day 2 starts and I claim Vet. Scum have to decide whether they can lynch me anyway or not, and the answer very much depends on who the scum team are. For example, they were never going to get a vote from town-Rayn or town-Clarity, but they could get a vote from them if they were scum. Then Vayne fake claims Cop. Was that a move my scum-Vayne as a response to my Vet claim? That would only be true if scum were seriously in trouble without my lynch on the table. I do not see a scum composition that includes Vayne and that would be in so much trouble D2 they they would need to pull that. Scum are only 1 mislynch from MYLO anyway and they know not to shoot the Vet. Another reason as to why Vayne is town is because people are not calling him scum. Let me explain: if Vayne is scum then he pulled that move to setup a mislynch other than me. Therefore, he must of purposefully be waiting for someone to “Slip-up” so that he could un-claim and call that person scum. He did that when JAT posted. The fact that is was JAT would have been a bonus for scum-Vayne because several town already thought that JAT was scum. Next question: Why are the people not voting JAT also not attacking Vayne? If you think that JAT is town then you should absolutely think that Vayne is scum who was waiting to replace me as a mislynch target. What we have instead is Oats calling Malongo scum even though Malongo's response to the claim fits perfectly with his personality. I have been told that Oats is not bad at this game, so if he thinks that JAT is town then he should have been after Vayne (or at least Rayn) who setup JAT, rather than going after Malongo. Also, Oats thinks that Stutters is scum when Stutters is absolutely the most town person in the thread (based on posts before and after the day post) and Stutters is in fact the most obvious NK target anyway. As for JAT himself, why he still attacking me? From his position he should of questions why Vayne would fake-claim like that and came to the conclusion that Vayne would only do that if I were town. It is as if Jat was told to attack me and did not receive new orders so he just continued to do so. Clarity is a weird one. It was really scummy the way his end of night post called Stutters and me scum. That put Clarity in a position where he could easily vote for either of us and at the time it looked like I was being setup for a mislynch and that I thought Stutters was scum and would be willing to vote for him D2. Also consider that Clarity was an odd RB target. The only reason to RB Clarity was to make him look more like scum after Vivax flipped. If Clarity is town then he should be questioning which scum would if pulled that move. Clarity defended my Vet claim which obviously gets him some town points in my eyes. On the other hand, if Clarity is town then I would expect him to go hard after Vayne (more likely RB target). This holds more true considering the list at the start of this post because Clarity and Vayne were both positioning themselves to drop an easy vote on me. If you want to find scum, look at the lists at the start of this post. If you are on one of those lists and know that you are town then you should be able to figure out who the most likely scum are. | ||
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On July 30 2013 21:31 Koshi wrote: I just said that I was going for XRZ today and not you hzflank D: But we can go Oats as well. You say which one. I follow. Bollocks. You said that my Vet claim did not make me town after you have tunneled me all game. Even if you want Exar lynched you still think that I am scum. Why do you want to sheep scum? | ||
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On July 30 2013 21:35 Koshi wrote: Like I said, Oats or XRZ my man, tell me which one and I follow. Pick correctly and I will remove 1 name off my scumlist. Firstly, I really do not care as to whether or not I am on your scum list. Secondly, if you are town then you were almost the scum team MVP this game. Your entire game plan just made things easier for scum. Even now all you are doing is making yourself look like scum. Lastly, I will consider all possible options before the end of the day, not just two of them. | ||
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On July 30 2013 21:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Are you high? Stutters is like the 7th highest nk target................. Believe me, if stutters isnt scum, the scum team isnt about to shoot him. On July 30 2013 06:37 Stutters695 wrote: Alright so this is what I'm thinking. Because I'm phone posting use this page of FTs filter for reference I'll be referring to then by numbers(post 4 is the list, if Paper flips green #5 etc) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720&user=FirmTofu¤tpage=5 First, everything before the deadline time is pretty much discussed to death. If needed/requested I can show people why that's scummy but I don't really think it's necessary. Anyway post #5 is where I'm starting. This post originally stood out to me because it looked like a scum slip (saying they were town and I misread it out of context of the quote because of how hectic it was). Not quite as damning as I thought, but after seeing Paper's flip, this is bad. Scum tofu knows Paper is going to flip green and his only other reads are on huge lynchbait+ myself. This gives him an out to avoid only pushing the easy cases scum love so much. Yes I'm aware this section is based off of the assumption he is scum, but here is what planted that thought. Read post 4, 6, and 10. Of his three scum reads in post 4 & 6 (other than paper), suddenly none of them are scum. Two of them I addressed why above but the most damming IMO is how he drops me from his scum reads for no explained reason. I was scum because I "popped in to vote me(tofu)". Now look at his new XRZ, Rayn, and Hz reads. He dropped a read with justification(albeit wrong) on me and replaced that with "reads" that say they've been playing town but he's going to look into them and they're slightly scummy. That is not town hunting scum. That's someone telling the thread what they want to hear to push his own agenda. On July 30 2013 07:58 hzflank wrote: Sorry for the delay, that question requires better analysis than I am capable of right now :p First I will answer an easier question: I think that could totally have come from a town Stutters. If you look at it in thread then Stutters already had a scum-read growing on Tofu when Tofu posted the list then and then Stutters flipped out thinking that Tofu was definitely scum. Considering how things unfolded it does make sense for town-Stutters to bring this up now. As for that coming from Scum-Stutters... It could, but it is not likely. It's still only one post and a single post can be faked. Going over that post thoroughly is making me doubt that Stutters is scum though. It looks so so much like Stutters made that post from a town point of view. I need to think about this more, but I would definitely not want to kill Stutters right now. | ||
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On July 30 2013 21:40 Oatsmaster wrote: How does Malongo's personality make a fucking difference? Because your entire point against Malongo revolves around his reaction to the cop claim. Based on Malongo's personality, his reaction to the cop claim is exactly what he would do if he were town. | ||
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On July 30 2013 21:40 Oatsmaster wrote: I also dont understand this setup shit. Way too complex man. Scum want to position thenselves so that they can vote for town without implicating themselves. It is much easier to make sure of a mislynch if at least a couple of scum can get their vote on easily. Especially when they are 8 town, 4 scum and 7 needed to lynch. | ||
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On July 30 2013 21:40 Oatsmaster wrote: I also dont understand this setup shit. Way too complex man. Scum want to position thenselves so that they can vote for town without implicating themselves. It is much easier to make sure of a mislynch if at least a couple of scum can get their vote on easily. Especially when they are 8 town, 4 scum and 7 needed to lynch. A big part of your point against Malongo is that he does not properly understand Mafia yet. As you say if Malongo is town then he knows that Vayne is lying, so to Malongo the best way to prove it is to flip himself now so that Vayne can be lynched after. | ||
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On July 30 2013 21:48 Oatsmaster wrote: So he made a case on ft. Tell me how that makes him town and not scum. Explain the town reasons. It's not that he made the case. As Vivax asked me, do you think that case was made by scum? Read it carefully. Also consider Stutter's posts on day 2. They are town. | ||
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On July 30 2013 21:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is so wrong. If someone lies about a check on yourself you know (or should assume) they are mafia in the first place. You know someone is most likely mafia and you want to have yourself instead of them?? I don't, but I can very much believe that Malongo would. | ||
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On July 30 2013 22:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why exactly is that? Have you played with Malongo before, or where do you base that assumption of yours? Mostly from this game. I also read a little bit of I Swear 2. Check this post: On July 29 2013 23:20 Malongo wrote: I think the answer is "depends". For me a D1 lynch > no lynch with about anyone on the block including me. Later the amount of info from fliping a player may not worth it. For D2 I think no lynch is like a nono. btw | ||
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On July 30 2013 21:57 justanothertownie wrote: I don't follow this logic. Why would scum need to lynch you specifically? Why do you think Vaynes claim is an answer to yours? Scum did not need to lynch me specifically. What scum do is have different people make attacks and see what sticks. Then they look at thread sentiment and position themselves so that they can realistically vote for someone who several town will also vote for. Scum were positioned so that enough of them could vote for me to get me lynched, If they could even get 3 town plus 2 scum on me, then others would have to join to consolidate anyway. Ideally scum also leave themselves options in case something goes wrong, so that they can follow the thread sentiment and vote for a different townie. Vayne's claim would only be response to mine if my claim put the game in a state where it was likely that scum would be lynched on day 2. For example, after my claim if the two most likely people to be lynched by scum then scum need to do something to change that. So from JAT as town point of view, some of the other people who were going to vote for me are scum. Suddenly when that option goes away Vayne makes a big claim and leaves town JAT in a position where JAT is the most likely to be lynched. | ||
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On July 30 2013 22:12 Oatsmaster wrote: If its all gut feeling, I have nothing more to say. I don;t play by gut feelings. I read that post by Stutter's at least 5 times and I tried to read it from a scum pov and a town pov. It is unlikely that post came from a scum pov. | ||
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On July 30 2013 09:50 Oatsmaster wrote: hey rayn explain why/how clarity fakeclaimed the rb? RB cannot stop dayVig anyway. If Clarity is town then scum must of thought he was the most likely cop or doctor. On July 30 2013 18:00 Koshi wrote: You do fucking know I was scum in NWM right? ADD STUTTERS On July 30 2013 18:01 Koshi wrote: 4 scums. The plot thickens. btw town. XRZ is the lynch for today. hz has 2 days to redeem himself. On July 30 2013 18:33 Koshi wrote: First lynch --> XRZ After that we can decide on Oats Hz and Stutters On July 30 2013 21:50 Koshi wrote: hzflank is so smart. Too bad he is on the scumteam today. But as present to Oats. As this joke has served his purpose My scumteam: XRZ hzflank Oats Confirmed town Stutters Malongo You suddenly went from Stutters being scum to being confirmed town. | ||
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I do not usually do this. | ||
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On July 30 2013 22:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Im so confused. Clarity claimed to be RBed. Its fake how/why? Sorry that was part of an unfinished post that I decided not to post. For some reason it actually ended up getting included in my Koshi post. | ||
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On July 30 2013 22:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Im so confused. Clarity claimed to be RBed. Its fake how/why? I do want to discuss this but I am not sure how to approach it. The how is easy. Scum do not have a Roleblocker. The why is the problem. Clarity looked bad at the end of the night phase but looked better with his day posts. Note how Vivax was sure that Clarity was scum. Also check this post by Clarity: + Show Spoiler + On July 30 2013 07:57 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't expect to die tonight, but here's a list anyway. xrz: Slight town, his little "I figured it out" on day one with him thinking one of FT or Paper HAS to be scum (even if wrong) makes him town in my eyes. You don't really see this logic from scum, let alone that he kept it up consistently throughout day 1. Also he's had a townread on me with GOOD REASONS for it. FirmTofu: Ugh, really, I think he's town. Yes, it's mainly because of him going OMG FOUND A SCUMSLIP. rayn: I think him jumping on Koshi a bit before lynchtime the way he did makes him lean town, regardless of what Paper flipped. His night 1 however makes me very wary. Oats: Town, spammy oats who speaks his mind is town oats. Sadly he doesn't read the thread before speaking as either alignment. CJS: He town yo. Vayne: vigi this fuck, useless. The "day 1 is useless stuff" I can swallow but then going "I told you so" during n2 and still not explaining the shit he's spewing, useless or scum. Malongo: I'm clueless about him now after learning about his meta. Vivax: I mean, he's supposed to be playing good but he's pushing me. He also just kinda jumped on everything in the thread when I asked him for the case. Lot of effort to "win" though, leaning town. Koshi: I really hated his useless lists day 1. Gets heavy pressure and does this: I mean, who does that? JAT: Dunno. If my two scumreads are correct I guess he's town? hzflank: I kind of ignored my gut on day 1 when I had that interaction with him. He felt extremely afraid and he felt like I was targetting him despite me not doing anything close to that. I think scum are more likely to have this kneejerk defensive response. All the other reasons have been beaten to death. Yes he has this one part in this one post that looks townie but its less convincing that FirmTofu's thing. Stutters: Leaning more and more scum on him. It's not about the short filter, I did look and yes, his meta is to not post that much especially day 1. First, his constant references to his activity always being low, despite when people pressure him they don't mention his activity (except for vivax day 1) His day 1 "case" on Vivax is pretty atrocious. Wanting to lynch CJS on day 1 because of his ragequit is dumb or scum. Night 1 he jumps on the FT bandwagon but decides he needs to have his own unique reasons (which always smells scummy to me) My only problem is, obviously, currently hz is calling stutters scum. Doesn't mean they can't both be scum, but I think it makes it less likely. Regardless, theres my list, Stutters is a good lynch tomorrow. I'm going to bed nao, night night peoples. That is such a middle of the road post that leaves him many options for day 2. To be honest it is similar to Rayn's day 1 post in that it mimics thread sentiment. Also consider that Vivax had Stutters as town and Vivax said he would not vote for me day 2. After my Vet claim and Stutter's started to make some town-like posts, if scum have no RB then I think he might have claimed for town cred. The problem with that is that he was not a good RB target (I can think of several better). I guess my position is to leave it for now as I cannot make sense of it. | ||
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On July 30 2013 07:37 FirmTofu wrote: hzflank, I can get aboard a rayn lynch. His actions are extremely out of place. His reads are flying all over the place and don't any logical sense. It feels like he's trying to attack everyone a little bit to establish himself as abrasive and therefore town. I don't like it at all. This is odd to me. Maybe I am wrong regarding my own play yet I have been very abrasive and I have attacked everyone a little bit. FT seems to think that I am town though, and in the same paragraph he gives reasons for Rayn being scum as being because Rayn is playing somewhat similar to me. | ||
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We may only have 1 mislynch left and we still need to lynch 4 scum. | ||
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On July 30 2013 23:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: Actually i just figured out something. Clarity´s roleblock claim basically confirms there is a roleblocker in the game whether or not he is telling truth about being roleblocked. And because of that it is more likely that Clarity is town. Can anyone else see why? Yeah got it. Clarity explained part of it well, also. Next question: does it mean that people who were more likely to be roleblocked (than Clarity) are more likely to be scum? | ||
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On July 30 2013 23:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Who do you mean were more likely to be roleblocked? Vayne & Vivax? Would you really believe an obvious claims like vayne´s / Vivax´ are true as mafia? To be honest I was thinking about Oats or CJS. They did nothing during the night phase. | ||
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On July 31 2013 00:20 Malongo wrote: Because i am green townie and in this position I have little to no chance to know what is happening behind the scenes. My real initial guess was "player x contacted VA and claimed a positive check". How could scum possibly contact Vayne behind the scenes? | ||
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##Vote: Koshi | ||
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I am not saying that Malongo is town, but I think there is a higher chance of that than of Koshi being town. | ||
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On July 31 2013 00:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because if a vig shoots Malongo and he flips green then vayne can´t any more say "it was a fakeclaim". I don´t wanna go to this PM shit because there are no PM´s and Malongo should know that. I am afraid that you sometimes have to try to put yourself in Malongo's head. I am struggling to believe him, but it is possible. And we do not seem to have a Vig | ||
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On July 31 2013 00:53 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: OATS Maybe when we are not at each other's throats, we are the same deep down inside. Stutters has two dicks? | ||
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On July 31 2013 00:57 Koshi wrote: I was pushing my scumread. I was not trying that much to not lynch Paper. I did say paper was town in my book. Also Mr. XRZ. What is your read on hz atm? If you were pushing your scum read on me so hard... Why did you leave it so late in the day and only push when prompted to? The left it so late that you did noy even have a chance to push me properly. Yet you claim that you wanted me to be lynched. | ||
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On July 31 2013 01:00 exarezee wrote: yea that's why i said to ignore my last post when i realized it was a copy paste. can you please tell me what your read on me is at the moment and a little reasoning. It will help a lot in me getting a read on you. I would not worry about getting a read on Rayn. If I am reading the game correctly (Which I probably am not) then... If we mislynch today then we need a cop check on Rayn night 2. A guilty check on Rayn means Vayne is likely GF. If we mislynch and Rayn goes unchecked then he just flat out wins if he is scum. But lets worry about todays lynch first. We might lynch scum. | ||
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On July 31 2013 01:07 Oatsmaster wrote: Pulled these associations out of your hat? Where did it come from man. This has all basically been said previously when Clarity and I were thinking about it last night. The actions of Rayn and Vayne around the fake cop check lead me to believe that they are likely the same alignment. Vayne should not of pulled that stunt as scum unless he is the GF. If we mislynch today then we are at MYLO. There is almost no chance of securing a lynch on Rayn or Vayne day 3. We would need to make sure to hit one of the other two scum while they have 4 players to work against us, and some of their players are generally thought to be town. I do not think that Rayn is scum. I say to cop check him as a precaution if needed just so that we do not get into a position where it is really easy for scum to win. | ||
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On July 31 2013 01:19 Oatsmaster wrote: Whats the difference between scum town and town town? Rayn never questioned Vayne motivations at all. When everyone else was trying to work out if Vayne was cop or scum, Rayn and Vayne were both trying to work out which third parties were scum based on their responses. They both jumped on JAT at the same time for the same reason. Basically, Rayn and Vayne were completely on the same page about everything. They were even on a similar page about Clarity's RB claim. I do not think that Rayn is scum but Vayne is town. | ||
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If we mislynch today then we need to cop check Rayn. Which is where I started | ||
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On July 31 2013 02:58 justanothertownie wrote: I really would like some opinions on my scum roleblocking and shooting vivax idea. If I'm overlooking facts it would be a waste of time looking into clarity now but if there's a good chance that this happened then I'm suspicious of him. Hmm. I do not think so. That's the exact play that I used as scum (because my teammates would not let me change it to better nigh actions) and it turned out pretty bad. I think scum aimed the RB at who they thought was either doctor or cop. We can read into it a bit better than that though: If they were aiming for doctor then they aimed for the person who "If he is Doc he will target Vivax". If they were aiming for Cop then they aimed for the person who: "If he is Cop then he is the most likely to target one of us who is not the GF". The perfect RB target would of been a mixture of both of those. | ||
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He was RBed because in his game when a doctor saves someone both parties are notified by pm. Scum could not possily aim for Vivax without RBing Clarity, because if Clarity was Doc he was always going to target Vivax. If Vivax had pushed Clarity too hard on day 2 then Clarity could of dropped a breadcrumb to let him know that he saved him. | ||
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Do you think that JAT is a smurf? Or do you think that this is his first game? | ||
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On July 31 2013 03:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think i have been pretty clear throughout the game that i believe this is his first game. So JAT posts this: On July 30 2013 09:28 justanothertownie wrote: Ok. Still the most likely scumteam for me is now (if this check is for real): hzflank, FirmTofu, Malongo + maybe rayn or oats. Details tomorrow. And you follow up with these: On July 30 2013 09:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also JAT is scum. Based purely on his last post- On July 30 2013 09:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also Clarity and FT. You think that JAT is as first-timer who is scum. JAT posts his scum reads which includes FT who he never previously mentioned as well as Malongo who there was seemingly a guilty check on. If JAT was a first-timer playing scum then he is not going to post 2 of his buddies out of the blue in a list like that. Therefore, upon proper analysis of that you should not of thought that both JAT and FT were scum. Now I am not calling you (Rayn) scum for this because you posted quickly without proper analysis and I missed it too at the time. But if JAT is a first-timer then JAT, FT and Mal are unlikely to all be scum. | ||
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That was a setup question which had a purpose, as you may now see. | ||
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On July 31 2013 03:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also did not understand why did he assume the check is not real unless he knows Malongo is town. But apparently a lot of people fail at reading the OP so tha's kinda null-tell. :E Touche | ||
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On July 31 2013 04:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: What do you mean by that? I failed to read the updated Vig role. | ||
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On July 31 2013 04:05 justanothertownie wrote: Why do you think there are two power roles and why do you assume scum thinks so? Game balance. with a 10/4 start a single Vet is not enough to balance the game. | ||
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On July 31 2013 04:10 justanothertownie wrote: Doesn't that depend on the scum roles too? Even if the scum have zero PRs, 10/4 with a single Vet is still unbalanced. That's 2 mislynches to LYLO if they dont hit the Vet, and with no other protective or investigative roles then scum is more likely to win than town. | ||
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I thought that Rayn's big post against Tofu was forced. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=98#1948 I am not sure why yet. It could be that Rayn is scum, but it is odd that scum Rayn needs to force that on Tofu at this point. If could be that Rayn is so convinced that Tofu is scum that he is not looking at it clearly, or at least that he is not seeing it the same way that I see it. | ||
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I disagree with all of his game theory stuff, and therefore certainly do not like that he uses it to attack people. The combination of these two quotes is bad (they are from the same post): On July 29 2013 15:56 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: If Rayn thought Paperscraps was town (or at least 95% town, coming from that post), he should not have voted for Paperscraps. Why is a no-lynch better than lynching a townie? On July 29 2013 15:56 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: The same goes for Vivax and his voteswitch timing. He was the last vote off of the Paperscraps wagon and onto the FirmTofu wagon. Cora basically argues with himself in this post: On July 29 2013 23:12 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Vivax, I love how you are trying to call every single thing terrible about Paper's lynch, yet you voted for him right at the deadline in the interest of "consolidation", before switching back to FirmTofu. To everyone who wants to answer: Is a no lynch better than a mislynch? Is it scummy to vote for someone you don't think is scum, only in the interest of getting a lynch? I would tend to think that voting for people I have town reads on is a pretty stupid idea, and is scum-motivated because they just want the lynch. Also @Oats: If you had been at the deadline, who would you have voted for and why? Everything Cora says about voting or not voting for your scum read is nonsense because he contradicts himself. I like the fact that Cora thinks that people who do not scum-hunt are scum, ofcourse. It's hard to reach a conclusion at the moment. I really wish Cora would spend some time and do some more scum-hunting. There are some very simple associations to make when we see other flips though, as one way or the other Cora has plauyed a very simple game. | ||
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On July 31 2013 04:58 VayneAuthority wrote: Of course I want to look scummy. If this gets anywhere close to endgame I always solve the game in the end. (besides i swear this is normal mafia, which was a disaster) It wasn't your actions actually, but everyone else. The pressure disappeared so quickly once people started arguing about other stuff that you got swept under the rug. Great. I'll probably be around towards the end-game with you, right? It's not likely that I am going to be shot any time soon. How about you start communicating with everyone and actually playing the game or I might just decide that you are scum at the LYLO. | ||
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On July 31 2013 22:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oats, Koshi was your top scumread. What made you change your mind on him? Or if you did not change your mind, why the fuck are you voting for a target of your scumread? You should ask that question both ways. Oats was also Koshi's top scum read and it was not greatly followed up. | ||
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On July 31 2013 22:24 Koshi wrote: What do you think of a JAT or XRZ lynch today hzflank? Don't know yet, I have been lazy for the last 12 hours and have a lot of grunt work to do before I can get into it. I'll tell you in a few hours. | ||
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On July 31 2013 23:07 Clarity_nl wrote: Also, can we go back to this? If malongo flips green, how does that make vayne a confirmed liar? What? Doesn't that confirm that it was a fakeclaim? Mal thought that Vayne was PMed by a fake-cop. Shoot Mal > Flips green Vaybe says: Player X PMed me with the red check, lynch player X Town lynches player X who flips red | ||
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Vayne claims guilty check on Mal Vig shoots Mal and he flips green Vayne: "lol guys, I was joking about being a cop" Vayne is going to be lynched. | ||
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On July 31 2013 23:15 Koshi wrote: Can't disagree if you put it like that. lol But his recent vote of me indicates he is consistent. Unlike XRZ who has litteraly suspected everybody a little bit but never pushed through except on FT, and fuck me sideways but I call FT town. Oats does not currently have his vote on you. In fact you could say that Oats removed his vote from you when the pressure (on you) was not subsiding. Who has Oats pushed this game? He made an early D1 case on JAT, switched his vote to FT and back to JAT. He was sure that PS was town and told us not to lynch him, but Oats did not actually push his case on JAT. He never really tried to get JAT lynched. And now on day 2, who is Oats actually trying to get lynched? I do not know because he is not pushing hard at all. | ||
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When did you decide to make that fake cop claim? Before or after the Day 2 post? | ||
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On July 30 2013 09:33 VayneAuthority wrote: miller is always a possibility | ||
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VT-Vayne claims cop with a guilty check on Malongo. Vig says: "Should I shoot Mal or Vaybe?" Real-Cop says: Well I am real cop so you should shoot Vayne Vig shoots VT-Vayne N2 Scum NK real cop N3 scum NK confirmed town expired Vig That's a really really bad fake-cop claim to make as a VT. See, I thought that Vayne made the claim because he was the real cop who checked me and got green. As real cop Vayne did not have to worry about a counter-claim. But you would think that a real cop would check the setup for a Framer before picking his N1 target. What's the chance of the real cop not checking for Miller when he checks for Framer? | ||
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On August 01 2013 00:35 Clarity_nl wrote: way to bluehunt as town, bro You wanted to lynch him. Now you do not have to because if he is town he gets Night-killed anyway. | ||
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On August 01 2013 00:37 Clarity_nl wrote: and yeah okay vayne is likely town, and I'm really pissed off about that. Even if he is somehow scum I have issues with his play this game ##Unvote I did not prove that Vayne is town btw. If Vayne had known that there was no Miller then I would never of posted that. What I proved is that the fake cop claim is actually more risky as a VT than as scum. | ||
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Okay so apart from the RB claim I think I could make a good and sophisticated case on why Clarity is scum. This would of culminated with the case that Clarity recently made against Vayne. I thought that it was a bad case that focussed only on day 1 when it should of included some stuff from night 1 also. So then I wondered why scum-Clarity would be making a case against Vayne at this point... The only good reason for scum to try to force a case against Vayne is because scum do not want there to be three town in the game who some people (such as Rayn) think are confirmed due to the claims at the start of day 2. Having 3 somewhat confirmed town would be a problem for scum because town could start to use process of elimination, especially if one of those confirmed is a Vet who cannot easily be night killed. The thing is, since Clarity is one of those confirmed town due to claims, if Clarity was scum then it would not be a problem because there would not actually be three confirmed town. Therefore, there is no good reason for scum-Clarity to make that case against Vayne. | ||
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On August 01 2013 02:06 Clarity_nl wrote: postgame I'd be interested in why I'm scum if you ignored the roleblock claim You're not anymore. You were scum without the RB until about 30 minutes ago. Now you are super solidly town either way. | ||
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On August 01 2013 02:15 VayneAuthority wrote: rayn is a good lynch for later, not now though. get rid of all people not contributing to the town wincon. First up, malongo. Remember that we only have 1 mislynch left. | ||
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On August 01 2013 02:29 Clarity_nl wrote: how can one person make the game so fucking unenjoyable It has not just been one person, though | ||
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On August 01 2013 02:13 FirmTofu wrote: @Everyone here right now What do you guys think of a rayn lynch? Something for you to think about. I touched on this in my recent post about Clarity. This is something everyone should of already thought of, but it would have been bad for me to post about this early day 2 as I wanted to wait and see reactions. Rayn thinks that Vayne, Clarity and I are absolutely confirmed town. If the 4 of us are in fact town then scum would know this. Scum cannot leave that situation as it is. Rayn and I also have Stutters as town, which if true makes the situation even worse for scum. Therefore, if Rayn is town he should have been looking unfavourably on people who were trying to make the supposedly confirmed town people distrust each other. This does not mean that the 5 people mentioned here are in fact all town. It means that Rayn is so sure that the other 4 are town that he cannot help but think that people who are messing with that are scummy (this might not even be conscious thought). So if you want to get a better read on Rayn then I suggest you ask yourself: is he playing as town-Rayn should considering that he has 4 solid town reads? | ||
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On August 01 2013 02:48 FirmTofu wrote: Since when does he think you guys are confirmed town? He's been flip-flopping on his reads every three pages. Just a few pages ago he was questioning Clarity. Before Day started, he had you as scum(my).We need to start holding him accountable for these drastic and completely unjustifiable read changes. Town rayn does not play this way. He is more methodical and you can clearly see his train of thought. Additionaly, you are considering hypotheticals that aren't necessarily particularly likely. What makes you think all of those people are town in the first place? It's a pretty huge leap of faith to take considering they haven't really been in the forefront of discussion until just recently. Rayn has had Clarity solid town since the post where Clarity explained why the RB made him town. Rayn has had me town since the Vet claim and Vayne town since the cop claim. Vayne has has Stutters town since early day 2. It does not matter whether these town reads are correct or not. The important thing is whether Rayn actually thinks that they are correct. You are the one that really wants to lynch him so you should be considering his town reads when you read his day 2 play. | ||
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On August 01 2013 02:48 Stutters695 wrote: Assumption. I plan for the worst, and a successful janitor kill practically ends us if we have Mal& Oats alive in LYLO. How do you know that Mal and Oats are town? :p | ||
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On August 01 2013 02:56 Koshi wrote: hz, I don't understand what you are saying btw. I would comment on it but I don't get it. Rayn has 4 solid townreads. On top of that he says that XRZ and JAT look town, so together with him that is 7 townies. Now you ask me if he plays like he knows all this? He isn't yelling he found all scum like I would do -_- There is a difference between thinking someone is more town than scum (XRZ and JAT) and thinking that someone is almost confirmed town. Imagine that you are town-Rayn and that you think that the 4 players are mentioned are town. Read Rayn's filter. Is Rayn playing as you would expect him to play based on that? If you think that the answer is yes then you do not want to lynch Rayn today. | ||
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On August 01 2013 03:12 Stutters695 wrote: Oats feels town, I don't want to lynch him. Unfortunately this is how he plays town. If Mal is somehow town also we're royally fucked. I was joking when I asked that as I did not really think it could be a scum-slip. Now I am seriously concerned though. On August 01 2013 02:48 Stutters695 wrote: if we have Mal& Oats alive in LYLO. On August 01 2013 03:12 Stutters695 wrote: If Mal is somehow town The first time you implied: I feel like Mal is town The second time you implied: I feel like Mal is scum Any third parties have thoughts on this? | ||
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It seems like the point is just being swept under a rug. | ||
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On August 01 2013 03:44 Clarity_nl wrote: @hz I think this post In context, rearranged: We are screwed if Mal and Oats are alive in LYLO He's implying scum in both Absolutely not. His whole point was that Oats and Mal would not be online at deadline time so scum could just do a vote-swap last minute and town (Oats and Mal) would not be able to prevent it because two townies would not be online. | ||
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On August 01 2013 03:43 Stutters695 wrote: You're not thinking about it in context. The first quote is still part of my assumption, not my thoughts. Second part is my thoughts, but take those with a grain of salt. I'm holding back on pushing him hardcore because he made some really retarded decisions in the first game I played with him so I'm more hesitant to do the same this game. I don't see the martyring as a scum tell with him because of that. He is a policy lynch given the circumstances who I'd say is probably like a 60/40. If your thoughts are that Mal is scum, why did your automatically assume a situation where Mal is town? | ||
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Stutters is scum and really messed up and Rayn and Exar just sarted to shit up the thread so that people would move on quickly and ignore it. Or Stutters is town and Cora thought he would use my point to throw the scum-role scumslip point at him again to see if he could put pressure on Stutters instead of someone else (Koshi? Not sure who). For now: ##Unvote ##Vote: Stutters | ||
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On August 01 2013 04:26 Stutters695 wrote: Or you could, you know, vote Tofu with Rayn/I/anyone who cares about winning and we can hit scum today instead of dicking around and making no progress towards winning. Why Tofu and not Cora? If you are town then it should be extremely fishy that Cora would push you so hard over knowing scum roles. That is such a scummy thing to push someone for, and it is not like Cora has been particularly town for the last 48 hours. Also, Rayn thinks Cora is scum, right? I am sure he would not argue too much with my theory that Cora is only doing this because Cora is scum, since Rayn has a town read on you. This whole situation is completely and utterly fucking win/win for me at the moment. | ||
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On August 01 2013 04:35 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Well seeing as Rayn voted for his town read, I'm not entirely sure if you should trust any of his reads. hz, do I look scummier than anyone who has been considered for lynch today? If the answer is no, why are you discussing things that aren't important to todays lynch? If the answer is yes, I would love to hear your case. I have never said that I trusted anyone's reads. I make a cracking point on Stutters, but it was only a single point. A single point does not make a solid case. Then I watched what other people did after I made that point and I saw two sides formed. | ||
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On August 01 2013 04:45 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm keeping up with the thread but am doing fun stuffs with peoples on the internet so don't expect me to filterdive deeply or anything anytime soon. I can bounce thoughts though, whatsup? Scum teams: Rayn/Stutters and probably Exar Or Cora/FT and probably Koshi I wont bother trying to name the fourth member. Stutters makes the 'scumslip' about a Janitor. I have personally seen such scumslips be real, but also I have seen them be false and used my scum to attack town for making a shitty scumslip. Cora attacks Stutters for the scumslip. So I build on it with a joke scum-slip attack on Stutters. Stutters makes a response that might actually be a real scumslip. I am no psychiatrist, but I would think that if you think that someone is scum then you do not assume them town when you make a snap (instant) assumption. That's not enough to know that Stutters is scum, so I need to prod. Exar begins to make shit posts. Rayn completely flips out in the thread. Note the previous interactions between Rayn and Stutters. When I called Stutters out N1 for his filter Rayn said that Stutters plays like this when he is scum. But Rayn never pressed Stutters on it and later got a solid town read on Stutters. Not long after that Rayn had Stutters as the possible fourth man in his most likely scum team. I propose that Rayn's recent flip out in the thread may have been designed to make things messy and stop people from talking about Stutters. So I remind people of what Stutters posted. It gets a little attention but not much. Then Cora attacks Stutters again for the role scumslip. Stutters has Cora as scum anyway so that should of set alarm bells off for a town-Cora. Rayn had Stutters as town and Cora as scum so Rayn should have been as happy to lynch Cora as FT after that. Then Stutters tells me that I should just forget it and vote FT. Also consider that Rayn has Exar as town. I wont name everyones reads in this post as if I try it off the top of my head I will likely make mistakes. Anyway, based on all of that, do you see the two sides formed? At least partially? | ||
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On August 01 2013 04:42 VayneAuthority wrote: here's something to think about hz If rayn is the one leading scum right now ( which I think he is) He said to have the doctor on vivax, so he thought he was the most dangerous/important player at the time. Fast forward and vivax died that night. He then gave the fake "why wasn't doc on vivax!!" anger that along with his questionable play this game leads me to believe he is scum, the subconscious speaks the truest! Before I start Vayne, lets make it clear that I do not fully trust you as I do Clarity. I have no idea whether you trust me. If you think that Rayn is scum and directed the NK (if he were scum then he would be the one making those decisions) then the simple answer is that he thought the most likely Doctor to save Vivax was Clarity, so he roleblocked Clarity. If Rayn is scum then when he directed the doctor the only good reason to do so was in an attempt to figure out who the doc was so that they could roleblock or shoot them. | ||
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On August 01 2013 05:00 FirmTofu wrote: The problem with that reasoning, hz, is that you have already taken a side yourself. You would be on the hypothetical scumteam with me Cora and koshi if we were to apply this logic without knowing your alignment. Don't you see how that is problematic? So you problem is that i think the other team is more likely to be scum than your team? Do you think that you are more scummy than Rayn then? Also, my vote is subject to change. | ||
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On August 01 2013 05:03 VayneAuthority wrote: if it helps, stutters is a lot more abrasive like this as town. His one scum game his filter reads very passively and he throws a couple cases around and agrees with people a lot. Idk this game is confusing =/ still trying to figure out why town is so hesitant to lynch some one that isn't going to help us vote for scum or play the game. See, now that I have attempted to proxy-Vig you by directing the next NK at you, you are now being useful! This is my third game, I have played 1 before as town. We came back to win from a 4-3 LYLO and I was in the position where I had to make the final decision. We had a player a bit like Malongo in the game and he was town. By the time the LYLO came I managed to get him on side, he sheeped my vote and we won the game. If Malongo is town then do not give up on him yet. | ||
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On August 01 2013 05:09 justanothertownie wrote: How would that work? I don't get it. I am not sure. When I played scum sometimes I was talk about blue roles and look for how people responded. I always took notice to everything said about roles in an attempt to figure out the blues. Once I got a shortlist of possible blues, I went well if this guy is that role then he will probably target player X, etc. It's all assumptions but I think it is better to attempt to blue hunt (as scum) and to just rng your roleblock. | ||
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On August 01 2013 05:10 FirmTofu wrote: If you have to lynch me to see what the scum team is, then so be it. I was saying that you are on my "team" right now, so if you were to think the scum team was Cora/me/Koshi, then you would have to add yourself to that list by your own logic. No because in my mind I am town. I don;t mean to coach you FT, but sometimes you really need to try to pretend that you are someone else and look at the game from their point of view. | ||
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On August 01 2013 05:12 VayneAuthority wrote: The thing is, rayn is now actively directing lynches away from both malongo and JAT, two people that have a pretty high chance to flip scum, which is why I don't know why people are just giving malongo a free pass because of some martyr post. That's one less vote we have now. Id rather lose to good scum play then dumb martyring anyway, so if it gets to endgame and malongo is alive and scum I would be pretty annoyed with whoever is town left. Fair enough. But if Rayn is scum do you honestly think the chance of Stutters being town is high? | ||
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On August 01 2013 05:17 VayneAuthority wrote: It's not alignment indicative. If rayn actually is scum he does this shit all the time and associates himself heavily with town players since he knows his time as scum is usually shortlived since his play is pretty obvious and he dies early a lot. If rayn actually does flip scum I would not say stutters is necessarily scum, especially given the meta case I presented. It's much more likely that rayn is pointing fingers at some one on his team but not actually voting for them. But by that reasoning if Rayn is scum then JAt or Mal are just as likely to be town as anyone. Also, I soft defended JAT on day 1 and I have hard defended Mal all game. Lastly, tbh I would rather lose to a martyring Mal than to a trolling and lying Vayne! | ||
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If so, Koshi was so scared of my potential scum play that it seriously affected the game. I think that you may be a bit scared of Rayn's potential scum play, so do not let it affect your game. | ||
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On August 01 2013 05:33 VayneAuthority wrote: if malongo is town the game is ruined anyway so might as well get it out of the way. It would be just like NWM where we got fucked over by gumshoe, and so I didn't really care that we lost since we had trolls anyway. That's how I feel about this game. Well we can hope that Sentinel PMs him and get him back into the game or replaces him. | ||
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On August 01 2013 05:34 VayneAuthority wrote: No I don't. If you think I'm actively trying to lose the game then you are a complete moron. You can try and say I'm "trolling" or whatever but you just look like even more of a dumbass everytime you say it No he means that if your only reason for thinking Rayn is scum is his defense of the wrong people, then you should think everyone is scum who defends wrongly. Defending the wrong people does not make Rayne scum. Or if you only think that Rayn is scum due to meta then you are being a hypocrit like Koshi only thought that I was scum due to meta. | ||
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On another note: Look how hard Stutters is pushing Tofu / proxy defending Mal. What do you make of that? I actually do not think that Stutters and Mal are both scum. He would not defend him like that if they were as it is he is purposefully being obvious about it. | ||
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On August 01 2013 05:46 Clarity_nl wrote: Does it make sense to you that tofu is scum and malongo is town? Why try to move a lynch away from someone that won't give any useful association away (I think anyway, everyone has shit on him at some point) It's possible. Only if Rayn is town ofcourse. I do not believe that Rayn and FT are both scum, mostly due to the D1 voting. If FT is scum then I could totally see at least 2 of Cora, Koshi and Oats being scum. | ||
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On August 01 2013 05:54 justanothertownie wrote: Also, if Malongo thought it was a pm game isn't it strange he messaged noone? Maybe he didn't because he is scum and did not want to pm townies while he still had kind of a pm game via the scum qt. That is a good point, except this is Malongo we are talking about. He is not a very talkative person. | ||
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On August 01 2013 05:57 hzflank wrote: That is a good point, except this is Malongo we are talking about. He is not a very talkative person. This is how talkative Malongo is in private (speed date from I Swear 2): http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/jWWEuZVaFbUFU | ||
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I really think it likely that Cora/FT/Oats are of one alignment and Rayn/Stutters of the other. I am not sure which wway around it is though. | ||
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On August 01 2013 06:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: You are very right here. Hopefully you figure out the right path when those idiots lynch Malongo and he is town because i have pretty much said everything i have to say and i will soon not give shit about this game any more because of dumb town. Well there is no point in lynching Malongo then because it will not tell us which path is correct. At least if we lynch one of the people that I mentioned we get some great associations. FT is not my lynch of choice, though. | ||
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If we lynch Stutters and he flips red it is great, but if he flips green then we can have a good idea who most of the scum team is. Probably FT/Cora/Oats/Koshi. We can just work out which of them is the most likely though and start from there. We have the least to lose from lynching Stutters or Rayn, and I think that Stutters still has a very reasonable chance of flipping red. Stutters has to be the best lynch target based om that, no? | ||
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On August 01 2013 06:25 justanothertownie wrote: I'm not so sure. Why is he a better target than Tofu? If Tofu flips red great if he doesn't we lynch Stutters? (theoretically) Because if Tofu flips green then we have two strong scum suspects (Rayn and Stutters), and a couple of weaker ones (Exar and JAT). If Stutters flips green then we have better/stronger scum suspects (FT Cora, Oats) and only one weak one (Koshi). | ||
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Do you see how lynching Malongo is bad for town at this point? if he flips green we are screwed. Lynch Stutter or Cora with me? | ||
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On August 01 2013 06:35 Clarity_nl wrote: I have like this list of associations, like, giant list. Anyone ever do those puzzles as a kid, seating arrangements, x doesn't like y etc. I feel like I'm missing one piece. hz why do you not like a tofu lynch? I would totally lynch FT before Mal. I don't like the FT lynch because Rayn has tunneled him all game. To be honest, Lynching FT/Oats/Cora is similar to me though as they are probably all of the same alignment. I just think that Stutters is the better choice. Seriously though, one of Stutters and Cora should be scum here. | ||
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On August 01 2013 06:42 VayneAuthority wrote: I won't feel bad at all if malongo flips town because ill just chalk it up to another townie throwing a game around here, which is apparently becoming the norm. If I lynch some one legitimately trying and they turn up green then I feel like shit. so win/win for me here, not changing. If you are town you should be trying to win the fucking game. Lynching Mal is not the best chance we have at winning the game. Lynching Mal has a very good chance of losing us this game. | ||
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That is a really really shitty situation to get into. | ||
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##unvote ##Vote: FirmTofu | ||
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On August 01 2013 06:47 Clarity_nl wrote: Stutters being scum would only make sense if vayne is also scum in my eyes. I was pretty sure stutters was scum at the end of n1, then his reply to vayne's claim made him look town. Stutters/Vayne/Rayn +1 works just fine. Could easily be JAT. | ||
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On August 01 2013 06:50 VayneAuthority wrote: If malongo flips green I'll just be really apathetic and forget this game even happened in a few days like I did with NWM. Not the end of the world and I won't feel bad at all. Lets say I go ahead and lynch firmtofu with you guys and he flips green. We get to endgame and malongo flips red and everyone has a good laugh at my expense. Fuck that. So you are actually not trying to win, then. | ||
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On August 01 2013 06:55 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: At least FT is going to defend himself and he will scumhunt on D3. What is Malongo going to do? Nothing. We're going to sit here and think about Malongo's lynch some more because we didn't lynch him today. Basically if we keep Malongo around, the issue of lynching him is going to stick around every single day until we lynch him. Do you really want to be sitting at D5/6/7 with a complete question mark and a complete crapshoot in Malongo? I definitely would not want to do that. FirmTofu is going to continue to give us posts that will help us determine his alignment even more accurately. Malongo is going to continue to be a crapshoot. Let's get rid of the mystery earlier and get this town headed in a better and clearer direction. We do not have that luxury with this setup, because we only have 1 mislynch left. As I said, if we mislynch on someone who gives us no associations then we need 4 scum lynches in a row. That is not going to happen. If we mislynch on Mal we may as well concede the game. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:05 VayneAuthority wrote: makes zero sense to me given how he treated my fake claim. He immediately voted for malongo and was like "no way is he fakeclaiming" if it's a real claim, terrible time to do it because I don't have enough time to assess it now. anddd im gone What? Did you reread the game? Rayn had a green check on you so when you fake claimed he knew that you were not scum. So instead of trying to work out whether or not you were really a cop, Rayn spent his time looking at other people's reactions. Rayne knew that you were town fake claiming cop which is why Rayn acted identically to you (Vayne). | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:08 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Congratulations, FT voters. You are sheeping this guy. Well done... Well if you had voted for someone other than Mal it would not of even happened. You could of had Stutters or possibly even Rayn, but you insisted on Mal. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:13 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: I'm voting Malongo because he is scum. Is that not the same reason you are voting for FT? You're hard defending Malongo by attacking FT. You're too afraid to see your scumbuddy flip because you will be the next to join him. That's what I think. That's rubbish. A red Mal flip would not lead straight to Rayn lynch. A red Stutters flip would of gotten Rayn lynched, but you insisted on Mal. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:13 FirmTofu wrote: hzflank, do you have any questions for me? Sorry but there are too many town that are not actually trying to win. I wanted a Stutters or Cora lynch, but in the interest of winning the game I have to vote for you over Mal. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:19 FirmTofu wrote: How about you vote for stutters and we try to lynch him instead of me. If it catches steam, we are good. If it doesn't, you can always switch back to me. Sound like a plan? I already tried that, but if I split the votes it would of lead to a Mal lynch or a no lynch, so I had to move to you. I don't know if you have fully caught up yet, but I explained everything earlier. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:21 justanothertownie wrote: How many votes do we need? 6? 7 | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:37 FirmTofu wrote: Alright, I'll vote myself if you guys can convince me that killing me is better than the alternative. What does it give you that would make Day 3 more productive? Remember, I know I am VT, so convince me based on this assumption. If you do not vote for yourself then we get an extra mislynch. However, everyone will assume you are scum and the game will be put on hold for 72 hours, leaving us at a 5-4 LYLO instead of a 6-4 MYLO. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:37 Clarity_nl wrote: Man majority games are hard. Day 1 mislynch and townie dies night one and you need 7 out of 12 votes, where there are 4 scum. So unless scum bus, lynching scum day 2 requires seven out of eight townies. Fuck me The problem is not majority voting, it's majority vote combined with a 10/4 start. As I have said previously in this thread, town needs strong PRs to balance that setup..and I kind of blew mine (I still think that I needed to though). | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:43 FirmTofu wrote: Why would everyone assume I am scum? Aside from the fact that rayn thinks I'm scum, why should they revote me on Day 3? This particular bandwagon is just a panicky lynch that isn't based on anything in particular. I think I could sufficiently defend myself given more time and a rational argument. You have already signed up for more games, have you not? How do you expect to properly defend yourself and lynch scum when you keep playing multiple games at the same time? For example, if you had spent more time on this game instead of your others maybe we would be lynching Rayn right now instead of you. Sorry, if we do not lynch then town basically loses this game. I am whining but fuck team games. I know 1v1 Mafia would not work but this is why I do not usually get competitive in team games :/ | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:47 VayneAuthority wrote: posting from phone since im confused in OP Majority vote: The person with (players / 2) + 1, rounded down to the nearest whole number, votes, is killed. why do you need a certain amount of votes? it just says whoever has the most votes gets killed. No. Plurality voting = whoever has the most gets killed. Majority = minimum requirement or no lynch. If we do not get 7 votes on one person then there is no lynch today. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:47 Koshi wrote: hz. Cora or FT would give the same effect on your theory right? For now? Except that you are trying really hard to lynch Cora instead of FT, which makes me suspicious | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:54 FirmTofu wrote: If and when I flip, I want town to gaurantee that they will KILL rayn, JAT, and stutters If you guys can at least promise and execute this, I will be happy. If you flip green then Stutters is a dead man. Rayn is Cop, though. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:55 VayneAuthority wrote: it doesn't say that in the OP so if you could ask mods for me since im time crunched right now that would be great. If you really need my vote I can change it but it wasnt specified in the OP I 100% guarantee you that we need 7 votes on the same person to get a lynch. That is how majority voting works in mafia. There is no doubt. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:57 exarezee wrote: i am here on phone. dont like where its headed. gonna be same discussion next day re malongo. i can live with tofu as i think its tofukoshimalongo scum. Then vote for FT, please! | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:59 VayneAuthority wrote: any mods reading is what they are saying true? if it is thats really dumb. you would need pretty much every town in game to agree with each other wtf. I can't believe that it sounds too stupid have you never played a game with majority lynch before? Why the hell do you think Vivax got shit on N1 for moving his vote last minute? | ||
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On August 01 2013 08:00 exarezee wrote: im way more sure that tofu is scum if koshimalongo are both scum though. we can get enough votes on malongo too. Vote for Tofu, scum. | ||
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Do you honestly think that Vayne does not know how majority lynch works? | ||
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On August 01 2013 08:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: So we have 1,5 hours right? This is fucking doomed. I am gonna die on N2 and the town is doomed because of dumb. vayne & Malongo scum MVP while being town, just saying. We have 40 minutes. | ||
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On August 01 2013 08:20 Clarity_nl wrote: Well I think if he did he wouldnt give us the chance to have it explained to him. Think he'd just afk. Can we get tofu lynched? Doesn't look like it. Whats going through your head hz? FT is scum. Koshi is scum. Exar is scum. Cora probably town, or at the very least has no PR. | ||
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On August 01 2013 08:22 Koshi wrote: hz. I have been nice. I will tell you this once. I AM FUCKING TOWN Then why scramble so much to save FT? Most or all of the scum team just went into a frenzy because Vayne pretended to not know how majority lynch works. | ||
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Exar may already of done some light breadcrumbing of his red check on Malongo. You can check his filter yourselves, might be something or nothing. Secondly, why would scum-Exar do this? Only to save FT right? That's not 1-1 but rather 1-2. We should lynch Mal because if he is green then we can get both Exar and FT afterwards. ##Unvote ##Vote: Malongo | ||
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On August 01 2013 08:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: I believe XRZ, my first impression on vayne´s claim was that there are two cops. He makes sense. We kill Malongo now. What? You are still claiming Cop after Exar did? And your reaction to Vayne's claim was that there are two cops so you do not think Vaybe is scum? I thought that when you claimed Cop earlier you did it in an attempt to draw the NK. I know that you are going to try to talk yourself out of this Rayn. I can even guess as to how. But we both know that you are scum. | ||
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Vayne and I are town for obvious reasons. We did vote for Mal in the end but we had to consider the options. | ||
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Also Exar, you do realise that Rayn is still going to call you scum? He will say you bussed Mal to save FT who has a better PR. | ||
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If you had listened to me I expect we would still of lynched scum (Stutters), he may of had a better PR and out cop would not of had to claim! | ||
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On August 01 2013 09:24 Koshi wrote: Wait, where am I now on the scale of town 1 --------- 10 scum Well you are a heck of a long way behind Rayn, and Still a very long way behind Stutters. After that I do not know. You are not confirmed town, though. | ||
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Rayn if you are town do not base your play around cop checks. Scum will roleblock you every single night until we lynch the RB. | ||
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On August 01 2013 22:16 Koshi wrote: Is it normal that you get a message that you are roleblocked when you don't have a role? I seriously have no clue. I am rereading here and I didn't know that. completely normal. | ||
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On August 01 2013 00:34 hzflank wrote: So what happens if: VT-Vayne claims cop with a guilty check on Malongo. Vig says: "Should I shoot Mal or Vaybe?" Real-Cop says: Well I am real cop so you should shoot Vayne Vig shoots VT-Vayne N2 Scum NK real cop N3 scum NK confirmed town expired Vig That's a really really bad fake-cop claim to make as a VT. See, I thought that Vayne made the claim because he was the real cop who checked me and got green. As real cop Vayne did not have to worry about a counter-claim. But you would think that a real cop would check the setup for a Framer before picking his N1 target. What's the chance of the real cop not checking for Miller when he checks for Framer? Do you really think that Vayne would of done that as VT? I can see Vayne doing it as cop or doctor, but not as VT. | ||
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On August 01 2013 23:35 VayneAuthority wrote: I still say there's a high chance JAT flips scum, He was also swept under the rug along with malongo. I knew there was something fishy about that and if im not dead tomorrow you can be dam sure ill be pushing a JAT lynch Why do you expect Rayn to keep feeding us cop checks when scum have a roleblocker? Whether he is scum or not, Rayn cannot cop check anyone unless we lynch the roleblocker. | ||
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Stutters said he thought that Malongo was scum. Stutters also said that if we mislynch D2 and a Janitor kills goes through we lose if Malongo and/or Oats are town because they will probably not be available to stop a last minute vote switch. Why did Stutters not want to lynch Malongo D2? | ||
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On August 01 2013 23:43 Clarity_nl wrote: If rayn is scum then scum cannot roleblock town as long as rayn is alive. I mean, I suppose theres a small chance town have a 4th PR, dunno. I don't think he's a good lynch d3 though. Exar will be killed, so there is no need for them to RB anyone. If we have a 4th PR then Rayn or Exar are scum anyway as we would not have 2 cops a Vet + a Doc (and it's pretty obvious that we have no Vig). | ||
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On August 01 2013 23:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: We don´t have a vig or doc. You can be sure of that. The vig should have shot Malongo when you gave out the red check, and the doc should have docced Vivax N1 unless beyond retarded. 4 PR´s is pretty much not possible so if there is one of those roles then hz must somehow be lying, but i do not think that´s the case as his claim sounds so legit. To play devil's advocate, if you think two cops are possible then when I made that claim I could of thought 2 vets were possible. | ||
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On August 01 2013 23:46 VayneAuthority wrote: stutters would have had to change his play in advance knowing some one would look at his previous scum game. I guess that's possible but if he's scum he is the last place im looking atm. Think about what I just said: Stutters wants to lynch scum. Stutters thinks that FT and Mal are both scum. Stutters thinks that if Mal is in fact town then he is a liability to town. Why would Stutters push hard to lynch FT instead of Mal? In Stutters mind: FT is likely scum. Mal is likely scum but if Mal is town then we are screwed. If Stutters was telling the truth about his reads he should of preferred a Mal lynch, but he pushed FT lynch hard. | ||
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On August 01 2013 23:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because tbh, at least from my pov FT was like 1000x scummier than Malongo. I don´t lynch people for being useless and noone else should. They should lynch scum. I understand it from your perspective. You thought that Mal was not likely scum. However, it is different from Stutters perspective as he thought that Mal was likely scum. | ||
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On August 02 2013 02:40 exarezee wrote: i've already explained why i waited. I thought for sure malongo was going to be voted off. I didn't WANT to claim. I HAD TO. But if you look at the situation from other people's perspective you should realize why other people did not immediately believe you. Heck, I still do not full believe you now, but it is not worth going into until after the night kill. | ||
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On August 02 2013 03:19 exarezee wrote: Nope. You weren't going to get a FirmTofu lynch without me. I had already stated I was not moving off Malongo. I could have just disappeared from the thread. Let's pretend FirmTofu was going to be lynched without my help. The only reason I would fakeclaim on Malongo would be to save FirmTofu. Why would I do this if tofu were town? I'd just let him get lynched. Why would I do this if Tofu were scum? We would both get lynched. 1-2 trade in town's favor. Not to mention if I were scum and malongo is town, malongo looks so bad and is going to be questioned every single day unless his posting level went up by over 9000. Why trade myself for malongo lol. It's not like he was going to help you guys win the game. I see no reason to suspect why my claim was fake. And the fact that you are saying people should is absolutely strange. Because before you claimed you were looking extremely suspect, and people needed some time to work things out. Just like when Vayne claimed. Also, if you read the thread you would see this happening. And you are going to say that you were reading the thread / following the game...then you would know that Tofu was still going to be lynched without your claim because Vayne would of moved his vote to make 7. | ||
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On August 02 2013 03:48 Koshi wrote: The only thing I know atm is that XRZ is town. But tomorrow I will be without town reads I guess... We will see. It's night. no hurry. In all honesty, how do you know that? XRZ is probably town (who will die tonight) but he still is not my strongest town read. If XRZ does not die tonight then you still need to look at him. | ||
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On August 02 2013 04:14 exarezee wrote: I was looking suspect? lololololololol. trolololol. I can't take this game seriously anymore. Town is fucking retarded. WTF would I try to save a scum FT to get us both lynched. You cannot take this seriously? I cannot take seriously that so many people are not reading. On August 01 2013 08:38 hzflank wrote: Okay, Two things... Exar may already of done some light breadcrumbing of his red check on Malongo. You can check his filter yourselves, might be something or nothing. Secondly, why would scum-Exar do this? Only to save FT right? That's not 1-1 but rather 1-2. We should lynch Mal because if he is green then we can get both Exar and FT afterwards. ##Unvote ##Vote: Malongo I took the time to work through it and explained my conclusion, then people like you can along and try to question my motives while ignoring the motives that I have previously claimed to of had. I have put plenty of effort into this game while half the town has just sat around and trolled, or decided to skip reading certain posts and just tunnel other discussions. This is fucking stupid. Think about this from the perspective of anyone who did not know that you were town. | ||
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On August 02 2013 04:15 exarezee wrote: you all look fucking scummy to me: clarity, hzflank, oats, koshi, tofu. only good town reads atm for me are: rayn, captain jack, vayne. slight town lean on JAT Then you have no idea how to find scum. How the hell do you get strong town reads on those three people? Vayne and GJS were right to vote for Mal early, but you need to look at their reasoning. heck, Vayne was not even voting for Mal because he thought that Mal was scum. As for you having a strong town read on Rayn...why are you so quick to believe that there are two cops in this game? Sure it is possible but it is not likely (there is no framer or miller). CJS has barely been active and has spent the entire on N2 throwing useless shit at Rayn. Rayn has done a bunch of scummy stuff this game and all people are talking about is meta and things that do not even prove Rayn is scum. You think Rayn is town and Clarity is scum? So you think that town has 2 cops and scum do not have a roleblocker? wtf. | ||
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On August 02 2013 04:21 exarezee wrote: why do you not think im not 100% town right now? I bussed malongo to save FT why? If FT is town then you are also town, so FT should have a strong town read on you but I should not. For all I know Mal, FT and you could all be scum. If you are town then you likely die tonight so it is not worth going into until D3. | ||
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You think that I blue hunted? I put Rayn in a position where by he could only be cop with green check on Vayne or scum and made it look like Vayne was the cop. if you have actually analysed the game properly you would of realized this. It's all in my filter if you were to actually analyse it properly. | ||
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The only remote chance you had of not being killed tonight and getting another cop check off was if Clarity was confirmed town and you were not. But I cannot even be bothered to try anymore. | ||
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I was going to write some 2000+ word monster of a case on Rayn and am I glad I did not waste my time writing it in advance because Rayn is now confirmed town, and so am I. Town must have at least 2 PRs in this setup. FT really scummy based on page 164. Makes no sense for FT to have XRZ as town and Clarity and Rayn as scum. No sense at all. In 6 hours or so I should be able to put some real time into the game again. | ||
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I need to put a lot more thought into XRZ before I give a read on him. | ||
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On August 02 2013 18:57 justanothertownie wrote: hz is probably town too. There is also a slight chance CJS is godfather but I don't think that's likely. If you have FT and Koshi as scum then Cora is not GF. Scum would not of switched off of FT onto GF Cora if scum thought that town had 2 cops. | ||
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On August 02 2013 22:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: mafia has no roleblocker. No need to assume that just yet. Why not lynch FT and see if he flips RB? FT so scum and if he does flip RB we get new info. Even if mafia has a RB it does not mean that they would use it every night. | ||
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On August 02 2013 22:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: because clarity, exarezee and FT is our scumtaem. Could be FT, Koshi + 1 as far as I am concerned. Clarity is not confirmed scum. | ||
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If Exar is scum then FT is scum also. It makes no sense for scum-Exar to pull that cop claim unless FT is a scum PR. So why not lynch the scum PR first? | ||
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On August 02 2013 22:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: there is not a single reason why i was not roleblocked and xrz dead if mafia has a roleblocker. My initial thought is that this is correct. If you were scum I could understand it but you are not scum because XRZ is not cop. I would like to think on it some more, though. | ||
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On August 02 2013 22:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Look who Vivax accused on N1. Clarity, exarezee, and FT. Vivax drops dead and Clarity claims roleblocked. Fine. D2 wagons are XRZ, Malongo and FT. Suddenly, 40 min before the deadline XRZ fakeclaims a cop to ensure Malongo lynch "because he is so sure of him being scum". lol, does this make sense to you? Of all the guys the dude who has never played with anyone of us IS SO SURE OF MALONGO BEING MAFIA HE FAKECLAIMS A COP?!?!?!?!? If XRZ is town, mafia must believe he is a cop. Mafia also must believe i am a cop because i am town. XRZ looks much much better than me because he was right. If mafia has a roleblocker the ONLY correct way to go on N2 is to roleblock me and kill XRZ. Neither of this happens. I fakeclaim a red check on Oats, and question XRZ. Suddenly XRZ retracts from his cop claim. Why? Because he knows my Oats check is not true and has no idea what´s going on and why i am questioning him. FirmTofu´s response on D3 is so bad i do not even know what to say. Clarity is mafia because scum have no roleblocker. Anything else makes no sense. Any chance scum do have an RBer and did not use it N2? If Exar is scum it must at least be possible. If Exar is scum they needed to fake-RB Exar anyway. | ||
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Say FT is RBer, he had to RB Exar scum anyway. If they had RBed you and not killed Exar then Exar looks too bad. They might have an RBer imo. | ||
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On August 02 2013 23:19 exarezee wrote: LOL ok. you have massive blinders. did you see his drunk rant? none of it makes sense logically. but keep sheeping him. I am not sheeping Rayn and have not sheeped anyone in this game or any other game I have ever played. I provide my reasoning for things that I do. | ||
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I don't need to fidn the fourth yet though so it does not matter. | ||
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On August 02 2013 23:33 exarezee wrote: Do I really need to tell you why clarity is 100% scum if i am scum? I explained my reasoning less than a page ago. | ||
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On August 02 2013 23:36 exarezee wrote: Hzflank, you are so evasive. Do you think clarity is 100% scum if i am scum. yes or no. No. if you had full read page 169 then you would already know this. | ||
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On August 03 2013 00:39 Clarity_nl wrote: You should also realize that your claim was weird as fuck rayn and scum might not have believed you. Thus bringing a blue vayne back in the possibilities. If scum were paying attention then they should have known that Rayn was Cop. It was obvious enough to me that Rayn was either Cop or scum the second that he claimed (and it looked like it before he claimed). | ||
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On August 03 2013 00:43 Clarity_nl wrote: Okay, let's look at it this way. xrz is scum. WHY DO THEY KILL VAYNE, ITS THE EXACT SAME QUESTION. Saying that vayne dying means xrz is scum is nonsensical If XRZ is scum then killing Vayne was a good move. The bad move was XRZ un-claiming cop if he is scum. | ||
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On August 03 2013 01:03 Clarity_nl wrote: Again, if xrz is scum, why doesnt he just claim "roleblocked" and kill you. I don't understand why vayne dying makes xrz being scum the only possibility. I agree. However, if XRZ knew he was not cop then why did he not call me town? he said Rayn was town and I was possible scum. This makes so sense for either alignment. | ||
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On August 03 2013 01:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Clarity assume you are scum. Would you seriously even think about killing vayne over 2 claimed cops as you can roleblock the other one and kill the other one to ensure no checks? Especially with no possibility of framer or miller. If you happened to get a red check then scum had no out. And just because you said that you would check Oats does not mean that you really would. | ||
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On August 03 2013 01:07 exarezee wrote: so why would i not kill you and roleblock vayne (if i had roleblock) or just kill you instead (if i didn't have roleblock)? And this leads us to: Either XRZ is scum or scum do not have a roleblocker. But XRZ claimed that he was roleblocked. | ||
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On August 03 2013 01:10 Clarity_nl wrote: Yes he can, he just claims to be roleblocked and kills you. Walk me through how you got to this conclusion please. Like, why for example can't xrz be scum and FT be a roleblocker. Okay they could, but only if they thought that Rayn was lying about his cop claim. The only good reason for killing Vayne and RBing Exar is if scum had Vayne as a doctor and Exar as a cop. That means scum would have to think that Rayn's cop claim was fake. That would be a reasonable assumption if Rayn were scum, but we now know that Rayn is not scum because Rayn is cop. Again, the night actions work well for scum if XRZ does not un-claim cop and Rayn gets a green check. | ||
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If scum know that Rayn is cop then they cannot possibly think that Vayne is blue, unless they manage to guess that XRZ is VT. Scum had no reason to guess that XRZ is VT unless XRZ is scum. ##Vote: Exarezee | ||
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On D2 I was raving about how Malongo flipping town was just about the worst flip we could get. Heck, that was a big parto f my reason for voting FT when I preferred Stutters. Yet, half an hour before the deadline XRZ fake claimed a guilty check on Malongo. If he had been wrong an Mal had been town we would of been in an absolutely horrible position. There was not a good reason to fake that guilty check unless he was very sure that Mal was scum. XRZ keeps saying that it was to avoid a nolynch, but we had enough people online to secure a lynch anyway. For example, there were 5 votes on Cota and Vayne and I would of switched our votes if needed. Or we could of gotten 7 on FT with Vayne. | ||
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On August 03 2013 02:16 exarezee wrote: you've been wrong all game. wrong about me too. It was to avoid a nolynch and get rid of one of my top 2 scumreads (koshi,malongo). I chose malongo because it had the added benefit of possibly protecting vayne if he were the actual cop. You keep claiming to be town and calling the confirmed town players bad. If you are town then you have just made a series of horrendous moves that could cost town the game. How can you both claim to be town and call other town players bad at the same time? Totally hypocritical. | ||
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On August 03 2013 02:30 exarezee wrote: we lose the game if mal is town regardless. So you gambled the entire game on your personal scum read? We both know that if you did not claim the game was not lost if Mal was town. However, if you as VT faked a guilty check on Mal and he flips town then we absolutely lose the game. | ||
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On August 03 2013 02:40 exarezee wrote: worth the risk imo. town has little to no chance of winning if malongo were town. there would be the same suspicion and case on him every single day, the rest of the game. And you have one less townperson in your voting pool. No town person who was actually trying to win the game would think it worth the risk. I was trying hard to win on D2 and I did not think we lose if we mislynched on FT. You had no right to potentially throw the entire game away for me and every other town player with a fake guilty check. I am not moving my vote today. | ||
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Do you think a VT would of claimed a guilty check 30 minutes before the lynch deadline when we are 1 mislynch from MYLO? Do you think that it is normal that VT Exar did not think I was town after he got roleblocked? | ||
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On August 03 2013 03:20 Clarity_nl wrote: This is a bit extreme hz. Not a logical argument like I've come to expect from you this game. You genuinely seem upset at the thought of a townie doing this, to the point that you ignore the possibility altogether. Myself, I am having doubts. Tbh I did genuinely get annoyed there. This was because Exar is calling me and Rayn bad at town while he just did something which I consider awful as town. Do you agree with: If Exar is scum, the only reason he risks that guilty claim is if FT is RBer? CJS cannot be RBer because of the green check. If we had lynched the RBer then Clarity is confirmed town. If Exar is town then scum think that we have 2 cops + a Vet + confirmed town clarity and they no longer have a roleblocker. That puts scum in an extreme situation. That is the only good reason I can see for scum-Exar making that move. | ||
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On August 03 2013 03:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is a possibility where mafia has no roleblocker and CJS is a GF. If that´s the situation their guise will fall apart sooner or later. I know, but from CJS's point of view he knows he is town. I mean, if Exar is town then the following people are town (from CJS point of view): Exar hzflank Rayn Clarity CJS That is 5 confirmed town. There are only 5 other players of which 2 would be scum. Sorry to make a list again but to make it clear. Oats Stutters FT Koshi JAT | ||
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On August 03 2013 03:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: All i am saying is that if exarezee is town he just threw the game with his incredibly stupid D3 actions and we should lynch him for that. I agree. But... If we can say that the 100% only reason that scum-Exar would possibly do what he did if FT is also scum then we probably get better odds by lynching FT today instead of Exar, no? If it is not possible that Exar is scum and FT is town, but the opposite is possible, then it makes more sense to lynch FT imo. | ||
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However, due to the great risk of scum claiming cop I do not think it would of been a good play to save GF-Cora. Saving RB-FT would of been better for scum as if the Roleblocker flips then Clarity is town. | ||
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On August 03 2013 03:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: If exarezee was protecting his scumbuddy from getting lynched that dude he was protecting was CJS and not FT, as he himself pointed out. Well we do need to ask ourselves why Exar would of pulled that if he were scum. Was killing Mal and risking himself worth saving the GF? | ||
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Also, CJS voted for Mal quite early and pushed it a bit. | ||
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On August 03 2013 03:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because in that case mafia has no roleblocker and their only role is GF-Corazon. There is no reason to protect a roleblocker that does not exist. Even still, is that worth the risk? Saving the RB would of been worth it not only because they save the power role, but also because they prevent Clarity being confirmed town. Saving the GF does not prevent anyone additional being confirmed town unless they know that the cop will soon check the GF. | ||
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On August 03 2013 03:53 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Are you guys actively thinking about scenarios where Rayn and XRC are both town or are you just slipping more and more into confirmation bias? Well, I can only do one thing at a time. First I am making sure why I think XRZ would do what he did as scum. Then I am going to look into what it means if XRZ did what he did at town. | ||
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On August 03 2013 04:13 Koshi wrote: rayn is there a chance that scum let you/xrz alive because it kinda looked like you were going to get lynched today? Vayne was saying that he figured out who the scums were. Maybe scum believed that and took vayne out? They didn't care about a Oats check because Oats is town/GF and just RB on XRZ from who they believed was cop? Vayne did not have the whol scum team nailed because he thought that Rayn was scum. On August 03 2013 04:13 Koshi wrote: I think the best way to handle this is to leave both rayn and XRZ alive. Just kill somebody else that you think is scum. XRZ pulling that move to kill Malongo without cop claim is the only thing that makes him look scum to me atm. Why are you even considering lynching Rayn at this point? | ||
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Koshi is scum because he is not considering who should be lynched today | ||
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On August 03 2013 04:37 Koshi wrote: Ok, who remembers how big the chance was: 1) we were going to lynch rayn 2) rayn was actually a cop during night phase. This is better formatting. Why? continue please. | ||
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On August 03 2013 04:38 Koshi wrote: Maybe scum didn't believe rayn was a cop anymore. I am pretty sure that I didn't believe rayn was a cop and that XRZ was the real cop. I thought that Rayn was more likely to be scum than cop. But I did not think that Rayn was VT. Scum or Cop for me and scum knew of Rayn's alignment already. | ||
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On August 03 2013 04:40 FirmTofu wrote: Alright, I'm finally at my computer for a few minutes. In my opinion, the XRZ lynch gives us more information, but rayn is far more likely to flip scum based on his behavior throughout this game. @XRZ Why are you willing to lynch me even though the entire case on me rests on you being scum? Are you claiming Cop then? Because if you think that scum have an RB and all town has is a Vet then I have a bridge to sell you. | ||
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On August 03 2013 04:42 FirmTofu wrote: @rayn What exactly makes Clarity/CJS/Oats confirmed town if XRZ flips town? I didn't really follow that reasoning. Town has Vet and Cop. If Exar flips town then he was telling the truth about being roleblocked. Scum do not have a RBer and a GF as they would be imbalanced. Rayn has a green check on CJS. Clarity was roleblocked. Oats is not confirmed town, just a little bit more likely based on assumptions (Rayn said he was going to check Oats). | ||
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On August 03 2013 04:43 Koshi wrote: Well maybe scum didn't believe that rayn was a cop (not too many of us did), so that means that they don't have to kill him with him being a prime lynchtarget. The small off-chance that he might be a cop he was going to go for Oats, something mafia allowed for x reason. There are so many possibilities left in this game. I think that only a very few are confirmed town. I would say rayn/hz at this point? It's possible, but not likely. Based on what Rayn did both at the start and the end of D2 he was likely to be either scum or cop. Scum knew that Rayn was not scum, so if they thought that he was not Cop they made a big mistake. | ||
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On August 03 2013 04:51 FirmTofu wrote: Thank you hz, I appreciate it. If I understand you correctly, you are saying scum do not have an RBer and GF because both Clarity and XRZ are scum, yes? What if Clarity fakeclaimed that he was roleblocked and then XRZ actually got roleblocked? Is this not a possibility? Scum do not have Rber and Gf if town only have vet and cop in a 10/4 majority setup, because it would be completely imbalanced and this host is not a bastard. | ||
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On August 03 2013 04:55 FirmTofu wrote: Why can't Oats be GF? Why can't CJS be GF? If either of them are GF then scum should not have a roleblocker. If scum do not have a roleblocker then Clarity and XRZ lied about being roleblocked. | ||
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Oats Clarity CJS Rayn Stutters hzflank Koshi Tofu JAT Exar I am surprised that Koshi, Tofu and JAT do not think that Exar is likely scum. | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:01 Stutters695 wrote: It seems pretty obvious scum only has 1kp so you have to remember the game is balanced around that as well. In a normal 12/4 after n2 you're looking at 8/4 or 9/3 and scum might have another night of 2kp depending on the host(if kp rounds up or down). But this was a 10/4, not a 12/4, and therefore balanced around 1 KP from the start. | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:04 FirmTofu wrote: So you are saying GF + Roleblocker would be unbalanced therefore it's impossible? Your whole argument hinges on setup speculation and implied balance? Yep. Then again you are saying that Rayn might not be Cop so town only has a Vet while scum has a roleblocker. | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:07 FirmTofu wrote: Again, I would like to stress that all of these questions are asked with the assumption that rayn is town. I'm trying to see where you're coming from hz. I do not understand why you have to stress the assumption that Rayn is town. Either Rayn is town or we have have a cop or doc lurking somewhere. Or the scum team is Rayn/Clarity/XRZ. Rayn is town. I am coming from a place where I only have limited information. I cannot say for sure what roles are in the game so I am making the best guess I can based on what information is available to town. | ||
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Yes, absolutely. If we have another power role then some things change. Not everything changes, though. | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Explain how it is even remotely possible that there are other powerroles alive? Well we have had 3 cop claims so far. Why not make it 4? | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:16 FirmTofu wrote: One last question. If there is a blue out there, not revealing his role, would it be in town's best interest to have him reveal? Consider all the possibilities. Hidden Doc/Cop/Vig/Vet Obviously, vig and vet are unlikely to be hidden, but I think a hidden doc or even a cop is still a possibility. It could only be a doctor. If it were a cop he would of claimed by now considering we have had 3 other cop claims. A vig would of shot by now and I am Vet. We cannot be 100% certain that there is no doctor, but we might as well play as if there is no doctor. If they need to claim then they will. | ||
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Tbh it was going to happen anyway. | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:22 Koshi wrote: Guys, why is Clarity scum in this trio? What post was it? Clarity is only scum if there is no roleblocker. So we find the other two scum first, if neither of them flip roleblocker and if we still have a mislynch left we should probably just lynch Clarity (sorry!). Oats was wrong in his scenario because he forgot that scum could of used the N2 roleblock on their own team (or not used it at all). | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:23 FirmTofu wrote: I am satisfied with that answer. As for XRZ, I can see where you are coming from. I am willing to lynch him on the grounds that his Day 1 was terrible, but I think rayn's case on XRZ hinges too much on setup speculation. Consider this. Mafia have 3 goons and a RBer. Couldn't we have 0 cops, 1 vet, 1 doc, rest VT. Wouldn't it still be balanced? I tried speculating setup in NWM and it worked out very poorly for me. I'm not going to make that mistake again. If we are lynching XRZ today, I will vote him because of a bad Day 1 and for information. Nothing more, nothing less. It's possible, but it is unlikely. Also, answer me this: VT-Exar gives out a guilty check on Malongo 30 mins before the deadline. What happens if Malongo flips green? | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:46 Stutters695 wrote: Rayn quick question for you now that everything is out there. Haven't you claimed a PR before as VT? If so what was your mindset in doing it and why isn't it something XRZ would consider. I'm a little concerned that he would fess up to fake claiming after just getting a scum lynch if he was scum since he's almost confirmed cop if he plays it out, spoon feeds town reads through checks knowingwho is town. If it wasn't you who fake claimed disregard that part but can you reason with me on why this is a good play for scum XRZ to make? If Exar is town then it was not a good scum move, it was a desperate scum move. We need to figure out why before we can say that Exar is town. Malongo was a goon and the least active player. He would be worth trading for another scum but not necessarily worth the risk of trading him when it also puts Exar at risk. Therefore I see two scenarios of why scum-Exar would do it. Either: Cora is GF. Exar sacced Mal to save Cora, thinking that if Cora flipped GF then town might deduce that their is no roleblocker and therefore Clarity would end up lynched (so this one assumes that Clarity is scum). Or: FT is Roleblocker. Exar sacced Mal to save FT knowing that if FT flipped RBer then Clarity would be confirmed town and that would leave scum in a situation where we had 1 confirmed town, 1 confirmed cop and 1 confirmed Vet. | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:51 Koshi wrote: 1) RB on rayn 2) XRZ gives red check on me 3) Kill Vayne = I get lynched 100% certain? That and the fact that XRZ should never buss his own teammate if he is going to give up being cop so easily. arfffffffff And after you flip green Exar gets lynched and then we have associations between both Exar and Mal to look at. | ||
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On August 03 2013 06:13 Stutters695 wrote: Hz: why does XRZ give up on the charade? He can ride that for town for days at the expense of sacrificing their RB to keep him "perma-blocked". The only way that plan falls flat is if Clarity flips scum and gives away that they don't have an RB. Saying he faked the check puts himself into major shit and if he flips scum it practically guarantees he bussed Mal to save Cora or FT(probably Cora) and scum is losing three members in four days. It doesn't make sense. I agree that it does not fully make sense. Also, why did Exar claim cop instead of Cora or FT? Exar completely kept himself out of it. The best I can come up with is a massive series of assumptions. FT is RBer. FT had already claimed VT so could not claim cop. Scum thought that Vayne was doctor. Scum thought that Vayne would doc Rayn so Rayn would get his check off. If FT flipped roleblocker then we have a bunch of confirmed town and Rayn can get a check off while they killed doctor-Vayne. With so many confirmed town then Rayn would have a decent chance of hitting scum. Even if FT avoided the lynch there was a good chance that Rayn would cop check FT (scum wanted to shoot doctor-Vayne), since Rayn was pushing FT hard on D2. By Exar claiming cop he could potentially discredit Rayn as well as temporarily saving FT. Even then it would make more sense for scum to RB Rayn instead of Exar and for Exar to give us a green check on someone. The best I have is that they panicked when Vayne flipped VT instead of Doctor. There are still gaping holes in all of this. | ||
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Why did Exar roleblock himself? | ||
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On August 03 2013 06:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: How do you justify a check on me when you have already said you think i am most likely town? Okay, but he could of checked Oats or whetever. It's all just weird. If he was going to roleblock himself then he should not of un-claimed yet. He might of well of left it until he was caught out and lynched. | ||
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On August 02 2013 08:55 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Alright, it's close enough to the deadline. I'll post some reads: First of all, Rayn is scum because he resisted a Malongo lynch for so so so so long until it was obvious that his lynch target was not going to die. His cop claim is really sketch, especially with a Vayne check. Why would a cop check Vayne, and why would he claim cop just to get Vayne to vote for him? (He still hasn't answered this, he called out Vayne for bad town play yet he did not need to claim just to get Vayne to vote for FT. It doesn't make sense). He's just shitting up the thread with random-ass nonsense about how Oats is scum based solely on meta and how I'm scum by association with Oats. The logic is simply not there and it's obvious to me that he is just making cases to look like he is scumhunting. Secondly, I want to look into Stutters some more. I'm still not convinced that he is town. His play until D2 was really fishy, and he dodged the setup speculation question that I gave him. He still worries me. In the category of town reads, I'm only pretty secure on giving town reads to Oats (because he's not caring about the lynch or anything at all, what's new?), Clarity (because he has played a very focused game and is actively trying to solve it), and XRC (for being cop and getting Malongo lynched). The rest I'm still feeling null on, and if I don't die, I will work on splitting them up into town and scum. Cora's last post before the day post. Rayn is fake-cop scum. Clarity is town (scum have roleblocker). XRZ is cop. hzflank is null (make fake claim vet?). I don't even need to tell you what I think about this. | ||
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On August 02 2013 10:10 exarezee wrote: I'm back on the computer. I can make a case against the others without a peek. This is assuming that the mafia did not have a roleblocker, (which I wish they didn't, because we could assume clarity is scum. I feel good about clarity being town now. I can now assume if someone else were roleblocked, they would have said something) I narrowed down my choice of peeks to justanothertownie, oats, or stutters. I don't have a good feel for their position. I decided to peek oats who was who rayn said he was going to peek. One of the reasons that Exar chose to fake-cop check Oats was because he had a town read on Clarity after he (Exar) got roleblocked. But Exar would have had to choose his fake-cop-check target before he got roleblocked. Someone on the scum team noticed this and told Exar, so he had to withdraw his cop claim. | ||
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On August 03 2013 06:48 Koshi wrote: This is nothing new but I don't understand it. Exar never intended to un-claim Cop. He was forced to. If anyone had noticed that above paragraph then Exar could not be a real cop. If Exar was a real cop he would of known why he picked to check Oats before the night-action results. Exar's reason for picking to check Oats included the fact that Exar was roelblocked N2, which he would not of known when he put the cop check in. Therefore, there was evidence in the thread that Exar could not be a real cop, so he had to un-claim. | ||
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On August 03 2013 06:52 Koshi wrote: 1) XRZ gets roleblocked 2) XRZ says this means Clarity was speaking the truth about being roleblocked N1 3) He picked Oats He has to pick Oats before he gets roleblocked, though. | ||
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Exar intended to keep to the Cop claim and scum itended push a lynch on Rayn. Then, Exar makes a not-cop-slip, so Exar has to say that he fake claimed cop and scum can no longer push to lynch Rayn. | ||
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Therefore Exar could not be cop. So instead of hoping that no one saw it he un-claimed cop and the thread went nuts, and no one noticed the slip. | ||
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He can make a case against some people without needing to check them. He feels good about Clarity being town because he (Exar) was roleblocked. So that left Oats, JAT or Stutters The bolded line cannot be part of his reason for the cop check. Btw scum team is Exar, Cora and Clarity. I will get to that later, but I am probably going to hard a hard time communicating it. Rayn will get it, though. | ||
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On August 02 2013 09:02 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Well let's make this easy on ourselves: ##Vote: Raynpelikoneet On August 02 2013 09:06 exarezee wrote: i got roleblocked On August 02 2013 09:10 exarezee wrote: oats On August 02 2013 09:18 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Why Oats? Not Koshi or any of your other scum reads from the group of 5 you mentioned? On August 02 2013 10:10 exarezee wrote: I'm back on the computer. I can make a case against the others without a peek. This is assuming that the mafia did not have a roleblocker, (which I wish they didn't, because we could assume clarity is scum. I feel good about clarity being town now. I can now assume if someone else were roleblocked, they would have said something) I narrowed down my choice of peeks to justanothertownie, oats, or stutters. I don't have a good feel for their position. I decided to peek oats who was who rayn said he was going to peek. On August 02 2013 10:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: And why did you check Oats? Therefore, Exar cannot be Cop. On August 02 2013 10:33 exarezee wrote: Here's where my head is at: Town: Myself, rayn Almost guaranteed town: clarity, captain jack scum: oats Time to solve the game on: tofu, koshi, stutters, hzflank, justanothertownie On August 02 2013 10:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Fuck it. This does not make sense to me. Cora and XRZ help me out here please. Why would scum not RB me and kill XRZ if we are both town? I even called a check on Oats. I did not in fact check Oats in case of mafia fuckup. I did check Cora and got town result. Now why did i not get roleblocked if Oats is town? Or scum? Why the fuck not roleblock me and kill XRZ who looks more town than i do? I can´t understand shit any more. I think Oats is a GF or town. CJS is town for sure. ##Unvote: On August 02 2013 10:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: actually i am not sure if XRZ is town, Cora please talk to me. how does this make sense to you, that XRZ was rb´d and not killed, and i was not killed? On August 02 2013 10:55 exarezee wrote: WTF WTF I'm not convinced you're fucking town anymore. Holy fuck. I claim roleblocked. You don't claim roleblocked. How the fuck would u think I'm not town. So you think me and clarity are fucking scum/scum? On August 02 2013 10:58 exarezee wrote: Look at it from rayn's perspective. there are 3 people who could have died/got roleblocked. Vayne died. I claim roleblocked. And he thinks I'm not town? WTF WTF Exar thought that Vayne was blue On August 02 2013 10:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Who is the third person besides me/you? On August 02 2013 11:02 exarezee wrote: it doesnt matter if he's a power role or not. he fucking got night killed. mafia THOUGHT he was a power role. that's all that matters. there's 1 roleblock left, used on me or you. IT got used on me. I claimed it immediately. And you think im BSing? Makes absolutely 0 sense from you (town perspective). On August 02 2013 11:03 exarezee wrote: if ur a cop, freaking think a little more before you put things out there that people will believe like putting doubt on me. I could get fucking roleblocked rest of the game, and i'll have to prove my innocence, and if u die and are a cofirmed cop, people are going to believe u u know? On August 02 2013 11:13 exarezee wrote: I guess I'll have to drop a bomb since rayn I believe is seriously doubting me. I am vanilla town. This is why I did not accuse rayn of being scum even after I claimed. I'm almost 100% certain he is cop. I was trying to draw the night kill. Did the next best thing by getting roleblocked. Obviously scum thought one of me or vayne were the actual cop. It is certainly believable that vayne could have been the actual cop. We are both getting roleblocked/killed during the day now, so I can reveal this. I know this because I was roleblocked today. I bought a free peek for us. Trust rayn's peek please. Unless there is no detective of course. Scum team realises that they are completey fucked and Exar says he is not cop It is going to take me fricking hours to figure out how to explain that to everyone piece by piece | ||
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##Manner Mules | ||
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On August 03 2013 07:21 Stutters695 wrote: What I see Hz is he didn't check Clarity because if someone else claimed RB he'd assume that clarity must be town since then an RB exists. That logic is faulty since scum can easily hide an RB n1 if they don't have a good idea of who is blue(I tried to withhold it in Basterd iirc, but no one else wanted to) but it doesn't show a slip in his thinking. That does not make sense. Exar had to make his check assuming that he would neither be roleblocked or night killed. Therefore he had to assume that scum had no role blocker when he put the check in. | ||
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On August 03 2013 07:26 Koshi wrote: Without doubt I am going to get lynched this game at some point. First time for everything! Nope. They have a cop and a Vet who have the entire scum team nailed. After they kill Rayn they would need to waste 2 night-kills on me. Their only chance is to persuade people not to vote with me. But..I am confirmed town afterall! They will concede before you are lynched. | ||
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On August 03 2013 07:28 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: I'm pretty sure there have been 2147329845723897 scum teams proposed...all before flips. Does anyone know that making association cases before flips is bad? Okay then, lets just lynch Exar since he has plenty of votes on him already. We can do the associations on Day 4...I am pretty sure I will still be around. | ||
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On August 03 2013 07:32 Clarity_nl wrote: hz, all these leaps you're making to somehow paint me scum. Remember the time when you asked me why I was so town? Those were good times man. Can we go back to those? At the very least can we lynch two scum before me? Sure. We lynch Exar. If he flips scum then we lynch Cora. If he flips Godfather then we lynch you. Deal? | ||
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On August 03 2013 07:31 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: THEN WHY ARE YOU MAKING THEM NOW My case on Exar is not based on association. I added the association bit so that you can see what I intend to push if Exar flips red. | ||
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On August 03 2013 07:36 Clarity_nl wrote: I agree to two thirds of this plan. Let's talk about exar flipping town, who do you wanna lynch then? Still CJS or maybe a Koshi/Stutters? (probably stutters) Also, if we flip two goons, will you still think I'm scum? Last part is easy: there is a green check on Cora so he is GF or town, not goon. First part well: if Exar flips town then I will look a fool. The most likely scenario then is two from Koshi/JAT/FT/Stutters/Oats. I am not sure which two, at the moment. | ||
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On August 03 2013 07:41 Clarity_nl wrote: I haven't done any in depth analysis stuff today, but are you saying that for xrz to be scum, cjs has to be GF? We're also saying it's unlikely that scum has a roleblocker and a GF? If that's the case xrz isn't scum. No, I am not saying that. Exar can be scum without CJS being scum. I do not think it likely, though. Honestly Clarity, it is not me that you need to persuade, but other people. I really want to lynch Exar today and if he flips red then I will want to lynch Cora. I am unlikely to change my mind on that. | ||
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On August 03 2013 07:44 Clarity_nl wrote: Like, xrz is scum leads to cjs being scum? yes/no? No. xrz being scum makes it much more likely that cjs is scum. xrs being town makes it much more likely that cjs is town. | ||
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On August 03 2013 07:47 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm okay with the exar lynch. Either we confirm a bunch of people including me or we lynch scum. CJS's post before it turned day looks fishy, but I find it hard to see him as scum. You think he faked the day 1 ragequit as scum? Doesn't matter, we have a mislynch left anyway. If we want to play it super safe after xrz flips scum: Lynch Tofu, if town then cjs + clarity = scum, town wins if tofu = scum then only 1 scum left and still a bunch of town reads Basically, if exar flips red then town almost certainly wins. I think CJS/Clarity are the other 2 scum but it does not matter as we can spare the lynch on Tofu first, and I cannot be nightkilled. I can push Tofu and CJS lynches before I am shot twice, and if CJS flips godfather then everyone knows to lynch Clarity If the scum team is Exar/CJS/Clarity then you cannot win unless you somehow have a janitor to shoot me. | ||
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If XRZ is scum then we are golden. If XRZ is town then...not so much | ||
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On August 03 2013 08:00 Clarity_nl wrote: I see it as a possibility, but yes it's unlikely. That's why if xrz flips red I really don't wanna lynch cjs You probably know more about the setup than me. Assuming that Xrz flips scum goon and scum do not have both anti-cop PRs, then the percentage play is actually to lynch FT day 4, because even if he flips town we still win (just lynch Cora and Clarity). If FT flips scum we are 6-1. Now, that is all assuming that Xrz flips scum. If Xrz flips town then we are 5-3, but with 3 confirmed town. I think we are getting really good odds from an xrz lynch even if you think that the chance of him being scum is not super high. | ||
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Clarity, I be a gentleman and make this clear: If you are scum and we lynch Exar today, you cannot possibly win as long as town sticks to a set of pre-determined lynches, so you and I do not even need to argue about it! If Exar flips red today and you are town we will end up 6-1 on day 5, again as long as town agree to stick to a plan based on there not being both a godfather and roleblocker. If Exar flips green then we are 5-3 on day 4 but with 3 confirmed town (hzflank, Clarity and Cora). | ||
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On August 03 2013 08:16 FirmTofu wrote: I'm confused. How are CJS and Clarity confirmed scum if XRZ = scum and I = town? This seems to be based purely on speculative associations and I see no reason to believe that this is even remotely likely. Why would scum-xrz possibly of fake-claimed cop when he did? If he is scum he would have to of had a reason, no? Unless you think he did it just to mess with us? | ||
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On August 03 2013 08:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah i don´t. That´s so far-fetched and Cora is right about that. Meh, in my mind xrz had just been asked to justify why he cop checked Oats, so that whole paragraph was him justifying it. | ||
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On August 03 2013 08:19 justanothertownie wrote: Right. Means CJS is scum but not necessarily clarity although possible. Rayn got a green check on CJS. He cannot be scum unless godfather. If CJS is godfather than Clarity was not roleblocked. | ||
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Sorry FT, but if Exar flips red D3 and Raun flips cop N3, then lynching you D4 gives the town the best chance of winning. Unless you can come of with some reason why scum-Exar claimed cop that does not involve saving you or CJS. | ||
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On August 03 2013 08:34 FirmTofu wrote: I was thinking about his reaction to the XRZ claim. He immediately discredited it and professed a desire to vote XRZ instead of his check. This made think that they are not of the same alignment. Additionally, he wanted to vote the cop claim instead of the useless person who the check was attacking. Doesn't make much sense to lynch a possible cop over a possible VT. So the fact that Clarity claimed N1 roleblock and xrz claimed N2 roleblock means nothing? | ||
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On August 03 2013 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: I still fail to see how XRZ and I are connected in any way. You still haven't explained this to me. XRZ saved CJS. If he flips scum, you should wholeheartedly endorse a CJS lynch on Day 4. If he flips roleblocker we can discuss it. If he flips goon and then Rayn flips cop, it would just be bad play to lynch anyone other than you on D4. There is just as much chance of Exar claiming cop to save you as there is of him doing it to save clarity. As we have a green check on CJS and a N1 roleblocked claim by Clarity we have nothing to lose by lynching you first. Ofcourse if we lynch Cora first and he flips town then we have a lot to lose, as we would not know for sure who the last scum is. | ||
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On August 03 2013 08:38 FirmTofu wrote: I think it is more likely that scum have a roleblocker than not. I think one of them is probably lying, but not both. Speculating on this is rather useless because either of them could be lying. It's more likely the guy who got roleblocked N2 is lying. You do not waste a roleblock on N1 without a good reason, and I would assume that the scum team has at least one person on it with enough experience to know this. | ||
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On August 03 2013 08:47 justanothertownie wrote: So probably xrz is scum after all... Yep. Mal voted himself and Exar voted Mal. Stutters voted FT. That means most of the scum were voting for other scum. So if you are town (which I do not know, sorry) then it is highly likely that Exar is scum. | ||
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Don't you agree that if Exar flips red and Rayn dies, the best play is to lynch FT just to be safe? I am pretty sure Stutters will be down for an FT lynch. Clarity will totally go for an FT lynch too. It should not be a problem for us to get a majority. Safe plays are the best plays. | ||
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On August 03 2013 12:06 exarezee wrote: do i need to post anything else? u guys seem convinced lynching me is the best play. Well I do not think there is benefit in us rehashing the same argument that we had yesterday. Do you still think that Tofu is scum? Anyone else? | ||
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You think that Oats is town and you have a green check on Cora? On the other hand it makes little sense for Tofu to be voting for Exar. Tofu does not buy insurance, Tofu buys lottery tickets. | ||
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On August 03 2013 23:28 Oatsmaster wrote: so if im town I dont want to vote for XRZ? why? No, the other way around. From your position I would not want to vote for xrz if you are town. So you could say that your play is making sense for me from a town point of view. Tofu looks really scummy. His contributions on day 3 look really bad to me. I can see a possible way that Exar could of made that play as town. It was a mistake (imo) to claim cop on D2, but town do make mistakes often. Exar's un-claim on D3 makes a lot more sense as town than scum if people do not agree with my previous case. My big worry with a Tofu lynch is that if we lynch him and he flips town then we are in a worse position than if Exar flips town. If I knew that you were town then I think we have a better chance at victory if we lynch Tofu today. If I know that you and Cora are both town then lynching Exar today looks like a really bad move, and lynching Tofu much better. | ||
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Xrz, Cora and Clarity are highly likely to be of the same alignment, but we do not know which alignment. We wont have any mislynches left to find out. The only other players left are Oats, Koshi, Stutters and JAT. If Oats is town then there are only two possible 3 man scum teams and it is much easier to work out which is correct. If Oats is scum then there are a lot of possible scum teams and it is really hard to work out which is correct when we are at MYLO. | ||
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On August 03 2013 23:53 justanothertownie wrote: I don't see how anyone could think Stutters, Tofu and me are the scum them. That was all assuming that we mislynch today, we might not. | ||
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Cora and Clarity are likely to be the same alignment as XRZ, so if Cora is town then it makes sense for Cora to want to not lynch XRZ today. If Oats is knows that he is town then he can afford to push on the person who he thinks is most likely to be scum. He does not need information as much as I do. Lets say Oats pushes a Koshi lynch and Koshi flips town, then there would only be 2 possible scum teams left to Oats, and he has a good chance to study the game and work out which is correct. Cora and Oat's play makes sense to me as town, Tofu's does not. | ||
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The three likely scum-team would be: XRZ Cora Clarity XRZ FT Koshi FT Koshi JAT As scum XRZ would not of claimed cop unless either Cora or FT were scum. I am doubting that Stutters and FT are both scum. I suppose it could be Stutters, Koshi and JAT, but I see that as less likely. Therefore we also get a lot of information from lynching FT or Koshi. And FT just really looks like scum. Also, if you count the fourth potential scum team then Koshi is on 3 out of 4, so he might be a good lynch. | ||
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On August 04 2013 00:18 exarezee wrote: ive pushed hard that i am town with a drumk.rsyn. id be repeating myself and jyst saying the same things over and over again. if u dont believe my story, how else can i convince you. you guys also say u can solve this game if i flip town. So who do you think is scum? | ||
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Answer me this: lets say that xrz/cora/clarity are scum and we lynch Koshi today. How does town win? We just guess? We are trying here, but some of us have less information than others. | ||
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Will talk when I am done. | ||
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Need to take a food break. | ||
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There was a bunch of discussion on D3 before he did it. Why not post it instantly? | ||
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On August 04 2013 03:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: "because he felt offended when i questioned & "accused" him". What´s the point of this question? I am just trying to figure out why XRZ did what he did. I really think that XRZ is scum right now, so I am looking for reasons as to why I may be wrong. | ||
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Oats has his vote on Koshi and probably wont be back before the deadline (he has not done that so far). My vote is on Exar and I will be afk for a few hours. I will check in before deadline but I really think that Exar is scum. | ||
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Which means that he was correct It was not unbelievable by the way. It was just unlikely (imo). But there we go. I have calmed down now. If people want to talk about it we can do it post game. Anyway, we can still win this. | ||
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On July 31 2013 00:07 Oatsmaster wrote: no shoot malongo or rayn Rayn why do I always wanna kill you man. Ok at this point I have 7 strong townreads. So therefore the remaining people are scum. Stutters/rayn/malongo/koshi | ||
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On August 04 2013 23:30 Stutters695 wrote: Because it's MYLO(assuming no save) and if we're wrong we lose? Why is he better than FT? GG XRZ, last fucking time I decide to lynch off of some pre-flip shit. Well why did you not put in the effort to try to defend him then? I was wracking my brain for reasons for the cop claim play and trying to work out if he was more likely scum or town. It was not just pre-flip shit. I don't recall you pushing hard to save him. | ||
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On August 04 2013 23:36 Koshi wrote: I atm not at home. Everybody can be scum but I ll make something pretty when I am at my pc. Everybody can be scum? | ||
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Sorry I am just thread-reading and throwing out questions as they come up. | ||
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On August 05 2013 00:03 Clarity_nl wrote: Unless I am making a mistake somewhere, tomorrow it'll be 8 people. 5 town 3 scum. How is that MYLO? We still have a mislynch. Luckily we're not. If hz is somehow scum then he deserves the win, he's put more effort into this game than the rest of town combined. I wish I were scum. I would of played a great scum game instead of a below average town game :/ @Stutters, what do you think of Oats? Why? | ||
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This vote count was posted exactly 20 minutes before Malongo self-voted. With Oats as town you can see exactly why Malongo self-voted. On July 31 2013 09:29 Aquanim wrote: Current votecount: Koshi (5) Oatsmaster, Clarity_nl, raynpelikoneet, hzflank, exarezee justanothertownie (3) Malongo, VayneAuthority, FirmTofu Malongo (1) IMCaptainJackSparrow FirmTofu (1) Stutters695 exarezee (1) Koshi Not voting justanothertownie Tell me if I missed anyone. Deadlne is in ! | ||
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They were both willing to lynch each other D2 and it seemed genuine to me. | ||
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Oats, dont take it personally but I agreed with Clarity's assessment of you. You have not seemed to really push your scum reads enough to make me confident that you are town. You also attacked townies for their voting without seeming to consider that majority lynch forces voting to be different. Doesn't matter though. I think that you are town based on what Rayne said, Based on Koshi being more scum, and also based on you not being attacked. If Koshi or JAT were town they should of hit you hard already on N3, but they did not. | ||
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On August 05 2013 00:39 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Just like XRZ was scum and Malongo was 100% town. Right. I love how you point out only Stutters' entrance as being scummy when Koshi's entrance was way scummier and he only returned when there were 3 votes on him. That sounds like a defensive scum play to me. Oats is town. The fact that he's not caring about anything is pretty consistent with his town meta. Don't get even farther off track with a possible Oats scum because it isn't possible. If Oats is town then there are only 4 possible scum left. Do you see FT and Stutters both likely as being scum together? | ||
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Yep. You have probably nailed the entire scum team there. I think that there is a chance that you are wrong about one of them, but we can get to that later. | ||
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On August 05 2013 00:49 justanothertownie wrote: Why does that mean I am scum? Maybe I just didn't want to make the same mistake of trying to name a whole scumteam again? Yes, oats being scum would be one possible solution for the current situation especially since scum obviously didn't take rayns claim seriously so oats is far from confirmed town but we should concentrate on one lynch target not three. If you are town then you must either think that Oats is scum or think that FT and Stutters are both scum. In addition to that you must think that Koshi is scum. This is because we have so many confirmed town. The fact that you neither pushed Oats nor immediately preferred a Koshi lynch to an FT lynch makes me think that you are scum. | ||
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I am totally down for a Koshi lynch. Anyone want to give me a good reason to not lynch Koshi? | ||
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Malongo might of self-voted in an attempt to just save himself, but he was not even under the most pressure at the time. He only had one vote on himself. Why did he self vote? Look at this: On July 31 2013 09:29 Aquanim wrote: Current votecount: Koshi (5) Oatsmaster, Clarity_nl, raynpelikoneet, hzflank, exarezee justanothertownie (3) Malongo, VayneAuthority, FirmTofu Malongo (1) IMCaptainJackSparrow FirmTofu (1) Stutters695 exarezee (1) Koshi Not voting justanothertownie Tell me if I missed anyone. Deadlne is in ! | ||
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Also, can we stop attacking people if we think that they are confirmed town. Lets win this game, now. | ||
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On August 05 2013 01:15 justanothertownie wrote: Yes, I did. If you lynch me we lose. At the moment to me it looks like everyone is dead certain I'm scum. Then why do you think it should be Stutter's job to convince us otherwise? That's your job. You have time as no one is currently advocating your day 4 lynch. | ||
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On August 05 2013 01:19 justanothertownie wrote: I never said it is stutters job. Yes, it is my job and yes we should lynch koshi and it looks like we will but this just leads to the same problem the next day. You thought that town was going to lose because we have no mislynches left and we think that you are scum. You thought that Stutters should be in the thread helping town to not lose. Therefore, you thought that it was Stutters job to help you. | ||
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On August 05 2013 01:11 justanothertownie wrote: If he is scum he doesn't need to give a shit because town is heading towards a lose. You are correct, I was wrong, sorry. You thought that Stutters was scum because he should be in the thread helping town to not lose. I mis-interpreted. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=124#2476 Some things do not add up about FT and Stutters both being scum. | ||
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On August 01 2013 05:13 Koshi wrote: ##unvote ##vote: Stutters I am town. I think FT is town. I am starting to love hz. On August 01 2013 07:05 Koshi wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote FirmTofu On August 01 2013 07:09 Koshi wrote: Rain you are 100% certain you like FT over Cora? On August 01 2013 07:20 Koshi wrote: Dude it really is you or Cora. Never Stutters. Not sure what to make of it yet, but I think Koshi is scum. | ||
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Read through Tofu's day 3 play again and then tell me that he must be town due to a day 1 townslip. | ||
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On August 05 2013 05:16 Clarity_nl wrote: Wait. Do you consider hz possible scum, or do you consider him confirmed town? I actually laughed out loud. Good job Lets try to not let Koshi mess the thread up. In particular I am really trying to see if Stutters and FT are likely scum together. I can see either of them being scum individually, but D2 makes it look like they are not both scum. | ||
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On July 30 2013 09:28 justanothertownie wrote: Ok. Still the most likely scumteam for me is now (if this check is for real): hzflank, FirmTofu, Malongo + maybe rayn or oats. Details tomorrow. | ||
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On July 30 2013 09:28 justanothertownie wrote: Ok. Still the most likely scumteam for me is now (if this check is for real): hzflank, FirmTofu, Malongo + maybe rayn or oats. Details tomorrow. Either Scum-JAT knows that the check is real and is leaving open the possibility of getting Vayne lynched before Malongo. Normally this would be impossible, but since Vaybe trolled D1 there could have been some hope. Still, without a counter-claim it is highly unlikely. We do not know whether first-timer JAT would know that, though. Or Town-JAT has no reason to trust Vayne more than he trusts Malongo. Hzflank was JAT's biggest scum read at the time, so he shared that scum-read with Malongo. This might make him initially more inclined to believe Malongo than Vayne. Conclusion: JAT would be more likely to believe Vayne if JAT were scum. JAT would be less likely to believe Vayne if JAT were town. Minor town-cred for JAT. Follow-up: When Mal and Koshi are getting the most heat and JAT is being put on hold: On July 31 2013 02:44 FirmTofu wrote: Also, why the fuck are people not looking at JAT? This guy made a SCUM SLIP? Anyone want to explain to me how this guy isn't 100% confirmed mafia? Conclusion: Tofu and JAT are less likely to be of the same alignment. | ||
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On August 05 2013 02:27 Koshi wrote: Hz, Oats are going to be the scumteam. … Rayn IF you are not death today, hz will be town and you scum with oats. We will see. On August 05 2013 05:40 Koshi wrote: Finally a good post. But I am on a point that I put you are hz between those. Also Oats if you don't die today. Inconsistent. Explanation on read change? | ||
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2) Hz is scum. Oats is not scum if Rayn survives. That is not the same thing. | ||
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On August 05 2013 06:29 Koshi wrote: hz let's talk about FT. You read his filter? Read dad 2 and 3. Have not read day 1 in a long time. IIRC Day 1 was looking town, except for the exchange with Exar. Day 2 FT was more town at the time. Day 3 FT looks like scum. FT was not putting a lot of thought into solving anything day 3, either scum or yolo. | ||
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On August 05 2013 06:32 Koshi wrote: Fucking second time you are misreading things and delaying great discussing. When Stutters, Clarity(?) and I were there to discuss XRZ you were also misreading shit and making fucking shitcases to drain attention. If it isn't misreading you are asking us stupid questions. Always something. I did not misread. First time you said scum is Oats + hz/Rayn. Second time you said scum is hz + Oats/Rayn. | ||
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On August 05 2013 06:37 Koshi wrote: Day 2 he was so close to being lynched. Under heavy pressure it is hard to say things when everything you read is: guys if XRZ flips scum FT is scum in these combinations BUT if XRZ flips town FT is scum in these combinations. It's sad. I am talking about before that. He was not trying to solve anything before I got super deep into associations. In fact when I said that stuff about lynch order it was all a trap for FT (JAT thought the trap was for him), but FT did not really post after that. | ||
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On August 05 2013 06:39 Koshi wrote: To make it more clear: HZ, Oats are my best guesses to be in the scumteam Rayn if you are not death today it is probably rayn/Oats and hz town. (because we will have 1 blue right?) Exactly. Now read the second quote that I posted where you say it the other way around. | ||
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On August 05 2013 06:41 Koshi wrote: But you think that FT his day 2 looked scum? Why? It's his day 3 that looks the worst. I did not initially want to vote for FT on day 2, but people were consolidating on FT and Malongo and of the two I thought that FT was more likely to be scum. | ||
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1) hz + Oats 2) hz + Oats Assuming that Rayn does not die: 1) Rayn + Oats 2) Rayn + hz It was not exactly the same. You changed it and I asked why. If you are not going to tell me why then there is no point in discussing it. | ||
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On August 05 2013 06:48 Koshi wrote: hz you say that FT looked town day 1 and day 2. However, rayn has been on FT this entire game. Why are you not discussing this with rayn? I thought that Rayn might be scum on D2. I was going to go hard after Rayn D3 but then the Exar thing happened. Now I believe that Rayn is town. | ||
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On August 05 2013 06:59 Koshi wrote: WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Because he tunnels your townread and a flipped town? Because he casually claimed cop and stuck with it. Because the N1 check he claims to have made makes sense considering Rayne's play on D2. As scum Rayn did not need to force that lynch on FT by claiming cop. It would of been much better to just sac Malongo. | ||
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On August 05 2013 07:06 Koshi wrote: Something he did as soon as another(!) cop just said that there was a red check on Malongo? First reaction should be OMG THERE IS ANOTHER COP?? REALLY? Rayn claimed first. Rayn did not care about lynching Malongo at that point. With no Framer in the setup it was 1-1 worst case, and no point in risking lynching a cop before a VT. | ||
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On August 05 2013 07:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Actually hzflank, you need to explain this: You: "I thought that Rayn might be scum on D2. I was going to go hard after Rayn D3 but then the Exar thing happened. Now I believe that Rayn is town." Koshi: "Why the change of mind?" You: "Because he casually claimed cop and stuck with it. Because the N1 check he claims to have made makes sense considering Rayne's play on D2. As scum Rayn did not need to force that lynch on FT by claiming cop. It would of been much better to just sac Malongo." This all happened before N2, and you are saying you were ready to push my lynch on D3. How does that make sense? I did not think 2 cops particularly likely. When Exar first claimed cop I did not immediately vote for Malongo (you shouted at us for that!). Then when Malongo flipped red I thought that he was the real cop and you possibly a fake cope. I thought that you had worked out that I thought your early D2 reaction wad fishy and perhaps used the cop claim to throw me off. Then Exar claimed roleblocked but not cop and I had Rayn as confirmed real cop. | ||
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On August 05 2013 07:29 Koshi wrote: But rayn is not going to die. He is making plans to check himself. lol. @Oats Town-slip! :p | ||
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On August 05 2013 08:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hey, don´t say so. I am not the real cop and there is the blue dude hiding in the shadows. duh.. Alright guys, I did not want to say this earlier... When Vayne claimed cop, he was lying. When Rayn claimed cop, he was lying. When Exar claimed cop, he was lying. When I claimed Veteran I was lying. I am the real cop. + Show Spoiler + I am also a doctor. | ||
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On August 05 2013 08:38 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: We sure must be confusing the scum. They don't know which cop to snipe ^^ Scum have a Sniper? Vote CJS | ||
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Anyway... | ||
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We are at MYLO and a missed shot only changes that to LYLO. We have 4 guys that might be scum. Even if I hit town then we know who the 3 scum are. ##Shoot: FirmTofu | ||
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On August 05 2013 09:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you really are a vigilante that is so awesome. You shall find out shortly. | ||
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On August 05 2013 09:10 Koshi wrote: lol. now I want to stay awake. I don't understand why you didn't shoot me but we will see. rayn being alive is lol obviously. I think one of Tofu and Stutters is scum, but not both. I am half aiming for town. | ||
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Rayn thought it was awesome that I was shooting the guy he had been attacking all game. Still think Rayn is scum? I don't think I will get any more out of this. Unfortunately not many people are posting, as people should now be wondering why the mods have not confirmed the shot. I wish I was really a Cig, though. Sorry for the deception. | ||
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It was a shot in the dark. | ||
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Can you explain to me again why Oats is confirmed town? | ||
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On August 05 2013 09:40 FirmTofu wrote: I mean it as a general thread sentiment. Oats is probably town if rayn is town. Rayn claims to not have been blocked on the night that he explicitly stated that he would chek oats. If you think rayn is town, it is only logical to assume oats is probably town. But you think that Rayn might be scum, right? If Rayn is scum then why is Oats town? | ||
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On August 05 2013 10:22 Koshi wrote: You aren't scum. At least I was right about 1 thing. Except when JAT is town as well ofc. Then this is hilarious. Tofu thinks that Koshi is likely scum Koshi votes for JAT Tofu votes for JAT Koshi says that Tofu is town What? | ||
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Did that not change your read on Tofu? | ||
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So if Tofu is town then the only way he can win is by lynching scum today but also distancing himself from all the scum in an attempt to keep himself alive until all the scum are lynched, or until someone else becomes lynchable. Koshi is currently under the most pressure. Tofu sheeps Koshi's vote without distancing himself from Koshi. How does town-Tofu intend to win the game? He is basically betting the entire game on Koshi being town. | ||
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Koshi is likely to be lynched today. If you are going to get JAT lynched then you need to push hard. Even if JAT were to flip scum today then Koshi would still be under pressure day 5 and still have a chance at flipping scum. Therefore, you need to push hard on JAT independently of Koshi, just in case. What you just did was throw a vote on JAT immediately after Koshi did, with no one providing any reasoning. That says nothing about JAT but makes both Tofu and Koshi look like scum. You (Tofu) have been FoSing JAt for a very long time now but have done little to nothing in the way of actually getting him lynched. | ||
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Based solely on Stutter's play without any associations at all, do you think that Stutters is scum? Same question to Rayn. | ||
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I can answer that for you, if you like. If you have followed the game and thoroughly read Oats' filter you would know | ||
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On August 06 2013 02:08 Koshi wrote: I don't even know if I would defend myself if I was town | ||
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Or should I stroke my ego and tell you which of FT/JAT/Stutters I think is town? | ||
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On August 06 2013 02:58 Stutters695 wrote: So the reasons he has wanted to lynch me are I didn't cause a no-lynch d2. Then tries to get me lynched for a "gut feeling" he's been pushing since. Did I miss something? He's provided no valid reason I'm scum yet I'm his only consistent scum read. I'm starting to doubt my meta read on Oats. Need to weigh him compared to JAT. So again, Oats, what makes me scum? Oats has spent much of he game building up town reads. He now has enough town reads that everyone else must be scum. You are not one of his town reads. | ||
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On August 06 2013 04:06 Stutters695 wrote: I'm starting to think it's a possibility. Still not sure on the third. WIll you expand on this: Who are the first two? Who do you think the third might be? Why? | ||
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do you still think Koshi is town? If so and we lynch him we will lose. I am willing to discuss other lynch candidates if you are around. | ||
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I think that I have it (the game) solved, I just cannot confirm it to a satisfactory level unless certain people start to post more. | ||
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You just did the same with JAT too. Oats being GF is not the only reason that scum-Oats would of let Rayn get his check off. Try again. | ||
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We are lynching Koshi today. He has basically claimed scum at this point, imo. But since Koshi has left the game there is nothing we can do except work towards the D5 lynch. I don't particularly want to lynch FirmTofu on D5. I know that some other people will argue with me about that. but there is no point in discussing that with you (Stutters) right now as I know that you will say that you want to lynch FT and even if you are town then at this point you are so convinced that FT is scum that I wont get anything good from you (in terms of reading your alignment). Therefore: I want to talk about lynching someone other than FT or Koshi. But you are sitting on the fence. I need to know whether you want to lynch JAT, Oats or someone else, and I need to know exactly why. | ||
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On August 06 2013 06:14 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Well you should tell Rayn this because he changed his vote, and once Rayn votes for someone he doesn't back down usually lol One thing we know for sure: we can only win if all town vote for the same person every day from now on. | ||
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On August 06 2013 06:24 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Then tell Rayn to not be stupid. tbh that's how we got in this position... Rayn will consolidate if and when needed, as he has done every day. If you want to accuse people for that then accuse people who refuse to consolidate in the face of a no-lynch We have >24 hours to go, no rush. | ||
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And to win the game we need to find out whether or not Stutters is scum | ||
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I think you should look into JAT again. Just to make sure. Do not assume that he is scum at this point (he needs to post more to confirm it!). | ||
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Want to try to win? One of the things I learned in my only other game as town is that town are more likely to play proactively than scum. This does not always hold true, but I would really like some of you guys to start playing more proactively! | ||
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On August 06 2013 09:19 Oatsmaster wrote: I DUNNO. I read koshi's thing. Ok.. scum playing the noob card. ##unvote ##vote koshi What thing by Koshi, exactly? | ||
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On August 06 2013 01:16 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Stutters isn't getting lynched today. And you also fail to tell us why we should lynch Stutters. I dunno On August 06 2013 01:36 hzflank wrote: Oats, you wanted to lynch Koshi D3. What has changed? I read Koshi's thing. | ||
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What did you think of JAT's N3 stuff? | ||
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Tofu D3 onwards JAT N3 onwards | ||
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It's majority vote MYLO. If the whole town does not vote together then we cannot lynch scum. You are not usually online before the deadline. If everyone else thinks that FT is scum are you just going to say townslip and refuse to vote for him? | ||
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If JAT is new then he is trying to solve the game, right? That's what I see. | ||
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On August 06 2013 09:54 Oatsmaster wrote: yes. look. twice, you guys lynched town who I didnt vote for. although I didnt really fight against XRZ but paper man. True. Although on D1 you did you push a counter-wagon that hard. You were totally right about Paper, but it's hard to blame us when the only person to even try to counter the wagon was Rayn (by trying to lynch Koshi or FT). I've been wrong every single day so far. I cannot help that. All I can do is to try to solve the game, which I am doing. But I cannot do that if you refuse to look at every single thing that FT has done since his townslip. | ||
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FT is not trying to solve the game. Stutters is not trying to solve the game. JAT does seem to be trying to solve the game. | ||
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The problem that I have is: even if on D5 or D6 I thought that was FT was scum and made the best possible case I could against him, I could not lynch him without your vote. That means that the only way town can possibly win is if FT and Oats are of the same alignment. Almost everyone thinks that FT is scum. What do we do? | ||
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On August 06 2013 10:12 Oatsmaster wrote: even if on D5 or D6 I thought that was Koshi was scum and made the best possible case I could against him, I could not lynch him without your vote. Almost everyone thinks that Koshi is scum. What do we do? My vote is not set in stone. I do not have a townslip on anyone. The only people confirmed town to me are town because of night action roles, and those people will of been night-killed by D6 anyway. Therefore, what you can do is convince me that someone is scum. I cannot convince you that FT is scum if you just say townslip and move on. | ||
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On August 06 2013 09:50 Oatsmaster wrote: And I think its normal town FT I do not think it is normal town FT. FT has been too submissive to me this game. That is wrong for FT because FT thinks that he is better than me. For example, from the mafia awards thread. On July 20 2013 10:41 FirmTofu wrote: Oh, looks like you guys are talking about our newbie game. Objectively, I think Hurricane, Chrome, and I played the best game and would tie for 1st place. Aqua played well, but was wrong about one too many reads. hzflank posted a few conspiracies theories and made himself look very town, but didn't do an outstanding job of scumhunting. He did well, but his reads weren't spot on enough to deserve the first place prize. Consider that he was still quite unsure of who scum was in the last few days. … I was also extremely good at looking town. On day 1, I pushed Spicy. By Night 2, I had the entire scumteam on my to-do list. I defended Aquanim when I thought he might be lynched and I made 2 solid cases on 2 scum. I think it's debatable as to whether I made the correct decisions when I lied, but I personally believe that my actions ended up helping town in the long-run. If FT were town he would never sheep me like that on D3. He would never of buddied up to me on D2. | ||
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JAT just looks the most town out of the 4 of them (if you ignore the townslip). | ||
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On August 06 2013 10:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok so 4 dudes. I tend to think FT is the towniest. We both dont think Koshi is the towniest. LETS LYNCH KOSHI. Ofcourse. My vote is already on Koshi. Why did you vote for Stutters btw? | ||
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On August 06 2013 10:23 Oatsmaster wrote: cause I thought he was the scummiest and wasnt sure that Koshi was scum. NOW IM SURE!. Because of Koshi's last post? | ||
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Yeah I am still awake. But I thought you wanted to let Stutters say who the scum was? | ||
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On August 06 2013 11:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##Unvote: ##Vote: Koshi I hate when mafia gets away with shit like this. See Oats and Stutters be mafia. ggyo- so FT is town now? | ||
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Oats is “Confirmed Town” No, Oats is not confirmed town. Rayn believes that Oats is confirmed town due to the N2 night actions. On August 05 2013 00:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oats does not push crazy conspiracy theories (vayne being a cop instead of me), Koshi does. There is a big flaw in this logic. Koshi is scum and therefore we do not know wich of Koshi and scum-Oats submitted the night actions. Particularly since Oats is sleeping in the hours leading up to the deadline while Koshi is active. Oats is not confirmed town. Oats has been town-hunting instead of scum-hunting Town players should scum-hunt. Oats' mission objective this game has instead been to confirm enough people as town so that the remaining players must be scum. In particular, Oats was not actually trying to hard-confirm people as town, but rather get a whole bunch of town reads. On July 31 2013 00:07 Oatsmaster wrote: no shoot malongo or rayn Rayn why do I always wanna kill you man. Ok at this point I have 7 strong townreads. So therefore the remaining people are scum. Stutters/rayn/malongo/koshi Oats votes for Stutters D4 Oats has been calling Koshi scum for most of the game. He was the first to vote for Koshi D2 after calling Koshi scum multiple times. Then Malongo suddenly self-votes and some people move from Koshi to Malongo. Oats moves from Koshi to Exar. On July 31 2013 01:04 Oatsmaster wrote: ##unvote ##vote Koshi No sane person would do this. Malongo self votes. On July 31 2013 09:56 Oatsmaster wrote: Wat People unvote Koshi. On July 31 2013 21:42 Oatsmaster wrote: fuck it #sheep vivax ##unvote ##vote XRZ Oats never moves his vote to Malongo. Even though Oats had Exar as town based on the earlier list, and Oats had Stutters/rayn/malongo/koshi as scum. For some reason, when one of Oats' scum reads self-voted, Oats moved his vote from his other scum-read to his town-read. On D3, once I pointed out that I did not think a town-Oats would want to vote for Exar, Oats moved his vote to Koshi (Cora was already on Koshi) and left it there. He never actually tried to push the Koshi lynch on D3, though. Then on D4 when Koshi is under massive pressure, Pats just drops his vote on Stutters. He does not give a reason for why he is voting Stutters instead of Koshi. I believe that Oats was trying to vote for scum on both D2 and D3 without ever actually trying to get scum lynched. Additionally, Oats thinks that Koshi is scum, right? Then why ie hs trying to save him D4? On August 05 2013 20:52 Oatsmaster wrote: why dont you make a case on stutters? me/ft/you are willing to vote for him. Probably Rayn and CJS too. if they are both town. So thats 5 people FirmTofu town-slipped This is just an excuse by Oats to not scum-hunt in Tofu's direction. There is no good reason for a town player to refuse to scum hunt another player from D1 onwards until the end of the game. Additionally, since this is majority lynch and Oats votes early and is not online at the deadline it presents a massive problem. We cannot possibly win the game if Oats is town and Tofu is scum. This is because every town member needs to vote together in order to lynch scum, so town-Oats would just vote for someone else then go afk and the other town players would be forced to sheep Oats. Now we are at MYLO Oats' town-read on Tofu is forced on everyone else. There is no good reason for a town-player to force this. Pretending not to read the thread On D1 I accused Oats of not reading the thread a couple of times. Maybe I was correct or maybe he is scum. However, on D4 we get this: On August 05 2013 14:54 Oatsmaster wrote: pretty ok shot Hzflank. ##vote stutters While it is possible that Oats just did not read the thread properly, you think he would of noticed that Tofu had no in fact flipped. Not to mention that he thought my shot on the guy that he has had confirmed town for the entire game was a pretty ok shot. This is speculation (obviously), but rather than not reading the thread this looks more like he read something about me faking the shot in scum QT saying that people should pretend they do not know that it was a fake shot. Since Oats is in a different timezone he responded much later. Oats has scum team variations Remember how Oats' objective has been getting town reads and finding scum by process of elimination? Well, he had so many town-reads that JAT had to become scum. But since then he has someone managed to find scum team variations amongst his mass of town-reads. On August 05 2013 17:01 Oatsmaster wrote: ?? Its a good shot because then we dont waste today lynching you stutters is scum in every variation of the scumteam I can think of. Oats' entire play has lead to what should be one possible scum-team. He should not have variations. | ||
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The main reason I was holind back this case is because I needed to find out whether or not your vote on Stutters D4 was trap or not. But you said it was not, so I think that you are scum. | ||
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On August 06 2013 11:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oats and Stutters are both mafia. no need to try. Just vote for stutters. FT is also scum. So Koshi is town? I think you are drunk Rayn, and partially wrong. I think that either Stutters or FT is town. | ||
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You voted Koshi. Koshi got 5 votes Malongo self voted. Two people unvoted Koshi and voted for Malongo. Then you unvoted Koshi and voted for Exar. Why? | ||
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On August 06 2013 11:44 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Oats is town. You guys are dumb. We will lynch Koshi today. But look at JAT's N3 and D4 play. You seem to be assuming that he is scum without seeing that he is trying to win for town. | ||
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Dont throw the Exar lynch at me until post game. I am willing to argue very strongly about it, but not now. | ||
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On August 06 2013 11:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Variations meaning stutters/koshi/JAT stutters/koshi/CJS stutters/JAT/CJS so I shouldnt have variations? So you that think Cora might be Godfather? Since when? | ||
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On August 04 2013 22:32 Oatsmaster wrote: thanks CJS. 2/2 so far | ||
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On August 05 2013 20:52 Oatsmaster wrote: why dont you make a case on stutters? me/ft/you are willing to vote for him. Probably Rayn and CJS too. if they are both town. So thats 5 people You say "if they are both town", but if you actually think that one of them is scum you should not of included them. | ||
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On August 05 2013 17:01 Oatsmaster wrote: ?? Its a good shot because then we dont waste today lynching you stutters is scum in every variation of the scumteam I can think of. Was posted two hours before this: On August 05 2013 19:00 Oatsmaster wrote: CJS might be scum actually. Hmm. | ||
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On August 06 2013 13:56 FirmTofu wrote: Read my case please. I did read it and I think that JAT is town. The most interesting part of your case is that you and me both looked at something JAT did and got opposite results. Compare: On August 05 2013 06:12 hzflank wrote: Either Scum-JAT knows that the check is real and is leaving open the possibility of getting Vayne lynched before Malongo. Normally this would be impossible, but since Vaybe trolled D1 there could have been some hope. Still, without a counter-claim it is highly unlikely. We do not know whether first-timer JAT would know that, though. Or Town-JAT has no reason to trust Vayne more than he trusts Malongo. Hzflank was JAT's biggest scum read at the time, so he shared that scum-read with Malongo. This might make him initially more inclined to believe Malongo than Vayne. Conclusion: JAT would be more likely to believe Vayne if JAT were scum. JAT would be less likely to believe Vayne if JAT were town. Minor town-cred for JAT. Follow-up: When Mal and Koshi are getting the most heat and JAT is being put on hold: Conclusion: Tofu and JAT are less likely to be of the same alignment. | ||
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Stutters recently posted this against Oats. It is quite a viscous point that has a good chance of sticking. I even used it in my case. I do not think that Stutters would use this kind of ammo in a scum-scum attack. On August 06 2013 03:58 Stutters695 wrote: No, he hasn't eliminated it down to 3 or he wouldn't have said this. He needs to explain, let him. | ||
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On August 06 2013 02:08 Koshi wrote: I don't even know if I would defend myself if I was town, | ||
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On August 06 2013 23:59 Koshi wrote: I meant if I was in your town position. lol. Ah well. Cora and rayn. We will see. How do you arrive at that context? You were not even talking about me at that point in the post. On August 06 2013 02:08 Koshi wrote: Yeah rayn, you sum it up pretty well. Day 1/N1/D2 was horrible and I should have died instead of XRZ. If I took the game more serious day 1, didn't troll day 2 and actually looked into JAT before going crazy, I might have been able to change the tides of this game. But I made horrible mistakes and I will pay for them. Below you will find my scumteam and I think I might have been able to point them all 3 out with some more town kred and better play. Or at least have more information to actually find the 3 scummers. I don't even know if I would defend myself if I was town, probably not. This is my last post. There is no point in me trying to defend me further if 3/3 hz/rayn/cora are going to lynch me. Somewhat disappointed that they didn't try to put some pressure elsewhere put meh, I am not going to blame them for lynching me. Maybe for some other shit but dnu. Endgame cred (even though I don't deserve any): JAT, Stutters & hzflank. laters. | ||
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On August 07 2013 00:04 Koshi wrote: But maybe you should defend the points I made against you instead of removing my credebility? You know, because when I flip scum people will be looking for other scummies. The game won't be over like you are insinuating here by not defending yourself. You just defended for me. If you are town and I am scum then I would of just kept quiet today and let your lynch go through. Instead I have been active and trying to solve the game. | ||
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So if you flip town then I do not need to defend myself. And if you flip scum then I obviously do not need to defend anything that you have said to me. You have basically proved that we are not both scum. So why should I defend myself today? | ||
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On August 07 2013 00:16 Koshi wrote: Are you dense? This game is over when I flip town? Yes, it is MYLO so if you flip town then the game ends. So lets say that you are town and I am scum, why would of made the thread more active today? I would just of kept quiet and let your lynch go through. What I am instead doing is preparing for when you flip scum. Just stop Koshi. All you are doing is running interference to stop me scum-hunting your teammates. | ||
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You promised to help solve the game and then you disappeared. Will you have some time today? | ||
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I really believe that town are going to win this, but you guys need to get on Koshi. Oats is scum. Look at the conversation that I had with him earlier. Look at how he unvotes Koshi and votes Stutters with a bad reason. Do not trust Oats. Vote Koshi. | ||
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We need Stutters and/or FT to vote also. One of them is town and we need all town votes. | ||
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There is no way Oats is going to lynch both Stutters and FT. If we lynch Stutters and he flips red then a town-Oats is going to have FT as confirmed town anyway and we need all town votes to win. I really do not think that FT and Stutters are both town also, due to their interactions. Also I made some good points against Oats that he could not answer without making himself look worse. Then I had to sleep and the thread went to shit. Now Oats has his vote back on Stutters again. I do not know if that means that Stutters is scum or town, but I think it means that Oats is mafia. | ||
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Why is his vote not on Koshi? The only good reason I see is if Oats wanted to set a trap by seeing who else would vote for Stutters. IIRC this was all in my case on Oats. | ||
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On August 05 2013 20:52 Oatsmaster wrote: why dont you make a case on stutters? me/ft/you are willing to vote for him. Probably Rayn and CJS too. if they are both town. So thats 5 people | ||
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Oats' attacked Exar early D3, but then moved his vote to Koshi once it became apparent that Exar was going to be lynched anyway. Then on on D4, does Oats vote Koshi? Nope, he votes Stutters. | ||
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Look at this at noticed the timestamps (I put them in chronological order order): On August 04 2013 22:32 Oatsmaster wrote: thanks CJS. 2/2 so far On August 05 2013 17:01 Oatsmaster wrote: ?? Its a good shot because then we dont waste today lynching you stutters is scum in every variation of the scumteam I can think of. On August 05 2013 19:00 Oatsmaster wrote: CJS might be scum actually. Hmm. On August 06 2013 11:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Variations meaning stutters/koshi/JAT stutters/koshi/CJS stutters/JAT/CJS so I shouldnt have variations? Notice how he thinks CJS is town. Then he has scum team variations. Then he thinks CJS might be scum. Then he has CJS in his variations. That's in the wrong order. He should of thought CJS was scum before he had scum team variations. | ||
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On August 07 2013 02:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: But Oats is voting for Stutters every time it his vote doesn´t mean shit. Don´t think Stutters is town for that, because i just caught him of lying. Gush.. Why can´t anyone else seem town than you/Cora. :E I agree that Oats vote does not make Stutters town. It just makes Oats scum. I am at the same place I have been for 24 hours. I know 2 scum, but I do not know whether Stutters or FT is the third. | ||
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Either FT is scum or his analysis is bad. I thought he was trying to force a case that he should not believe in. | ||
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On August 07 2013 03:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: At least Oats is justifying his "i refuse to talk anything about FT because townslip", and that is retarded. I don't know what you mean by this part. Also, if Koshi is town then he is completely attacking the wrong people. I do not see why a town-Koshi would still be attacking me at this point. | ||
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As long as it is productive. I dont want 3 pages of spam that gets in the way of people looking at productive scumhunting, which from my position is what it seems you have been doing. | ||
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On August 07 2013 03:20 justanothertownie wrote: I'm here. If you have a question - ask. Otherwise I will continue reading filters. Well there have been a lot of developments recently so you must have something to say. What do you think of Oats? | ||
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On August 07 2013 03:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because he thinks you are mafia. It´s not uncommon for townies to tunnel some dude they think is mafia for bad reasons or not looking at the big picture. Everyone does that some time. Koshi has at least given reasons why he thinks you are mafia. Those reasons actually make sense. Although i think the reasons why you are town outweight the reasons why you are mafia i can see Koshi´s point, at least i understand what he is trying to say and how that is possible from a townie. Remove the "at least" from Oats comment and it makes much more sense. All game Oats has refused to comment on FT because of townslip. It makes no sense, he is just saying "because of this one town tell i refuse to talk anything about FT, whatever he says". Why did FT allow Oats to do that? When Vivax and Rayn said I was town based on a single paragraph I flipped out about it. Can we get any idea of FT's alignment based on that? | ||
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As for Stutters, he has done a few things that make him look like scum. He has only done a few things that make him look town. He has not been very active and he has rarely played proactivly. However, I do not want to lynch Stutters today. I do not believe that Rayn's point makes him 100% scum. I will look at voting for him on D5, though. Realistically, the only person I might be willing to switch my vote to is Oats. But I am happy lynching Koshi today and then pusing Oats on D5. | ||
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Also don't forget the point that I made earlier about FT on D3. Firstly, FT should never be submissive to me like that because as I showed he thinks that I am not a good player. Secondly, he seemed to not know what was even going on in the game. I do not buy that FT is not reading the game. In that recent I Swear 2 game FT fake-claimed Traitor and won the game for town, right? That's a good move. How does a player who makes moves like that play the way FT did in this game on D3? | ||
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What do you think of my points against Oats? | ||
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On August 07 2013 03:44 FirmTofu wrote: Hz, I don't think you are not a good player. You are an excellent player. I just thought you made a few mistakes in our newbie game. My inactivity is not alignment indicative. I have been busy IRL. My inactivity spans all my games in a consistent fashion. I don't think I've been reactive at all. I've constantly been accusing people. First, XRZ. Then, JAT. Can you explain to me what exactly about my play makes you think I am playing reactively? You were proactive D1 and the first half of D2. Since then you have mostly been happy with the status quo. Since Exar flipped, you have only really posted when I have aimed accusations at you. You thought Jat was scum and voted for him. You only made a case because I told you to. And since then you have not actually pushed JAT. You do not even seem to be trying to engage scum to solidify your reads on them. | ||
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On August 07 2013 03:45 justanothertownie wrote: Oats could absolutely be mafia. He didn't give a shit all game long an just left aggressive comments here and there. Also he never votes with town. I would have called oats scum earlier but you guys said this play is his town meta and since I don't know oats I thought this might be true. Although this is not a good reason it makes also sense because if he is scum only one of FT/Stutters has to be mafia. But do you think my points against Oats were good or bad? If you are actually trying to win the game for scum then you should of read them. Especially since I started with the reason as to why Oats is not confirmed town. | ||
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On August 07 2013 03:47 Koshi wrote: I cannot bring myself to lynch anybody else than you tbh. Everything else is going to look bad anyway. If you are town then you should be trying to win the game and not caring about what you look like when the game ends! Save the post game stuff for post game. You are using that as an excuse to not try to solve the game. | ||
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Scum only need 1 mislynch to win but we have 3 people who are highly likely to be town Scum are not in as good of a position as it might initially seem. They have to use their next 2 Nks on Rayn and Cora (in either order) and that still leaves me as a Veteran who will be at the final MYLO who they cannot just nightkill! Scum either need a mislynch today or they need to rely on me being horribly wrong. Scum have to make a big play to get a mislynch today and/or do something to make me get it wrong in future. All of this sudden activity is not just a coincidence. Scum are currently rattled. Look for the people who are almost going all-in to secure a D4 mislynch. | ||
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On August 02 2013 10:54 Stutters695 wrote: Rayn just said Oats is town or GF yet there is no framer. Dude is scum. Oats has said that Tofu was town all game due to a town slip. Why is Oats now saying that Stutters is scum? | ||
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On August 07 2013 03:47 Koshi wrote: I put my vote in rayn his hands. I know I am town, everything is better for town than me. I still think you are scum. I don't think we will eventually win this game unless I am wrong about FT or Oats. But with rayn wanting to check Oats I just don't believe it. I have said that I am not willing to lynch Stutters today. The Stutters lynch will not happen without me on board. If you are town and we lynch you then town loses. Why are you unwilling to got for a lynch on Oats? | ||
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On August 07 2013 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: hzflank you are being stupid too. There is no way we can lynch Oats today. So you are also ensuring we lose if Koshi is town? geez guys. So all this discussion is pointless as no other lynch is gonna happen than Koshi. Pretty sad day phase. Why not? I made a decent case against Oats and no one seems to be sure that he is town. The only person who would need to be convinced is Cora. In fact, we cannot move our votes off of Koshi to anyone unless Cora agrees. | ||
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You accused me a lot of confirmation bias on D3 but on D4 you have done the same yourself. We do need to to keep playing the game and trying to win it. What is happening now is town are throwing shit at each other again that should be saved for the end game. If you want to criticize me for trying to win the game then do it after the game ends. | ||
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Stutters / Oats / FT, we need at least one of you. | ||
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On August 07 2013 04:47 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Well you are saying your vote has been on Koshi but Rayn/Oats have changed their votes at least 5 times and it's scaring me haha Then I hope that you read everything that I have said about Oats. I have completely nailed him over the last 12 hours. You should either think that he is scum or that I am horribly wrong. | ||
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On August 07 2013 04:54 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: I made this handy guide to reading Oats after tunneling him in a bajillion games in a row: If he cares about what's going on, he's scum If he doesn't care about what's going on, he's town Right now he's still under the second one. Sorry but that is not good enough. I want to win this game. I need more help. | ||
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On my first read I agree with most of your case against Tofu. There might be some confirmation bias from my part though, so I will read it again. | ||
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On August 07 2013 05:04 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: That's totally good enough. That's why I've had a town read on him since the middle of Night 1. There are 3 people who have played way scummier than Oats: Koshi, JAT, and Stutters You guys try to make association cases and I try to lynch off the scummiest players. My plan is to lynch Koshi, JAT, and then Stutters and get Town MVP because I carried the town on my back. Then we can have cake and I promise you, it's not a lie. My case on Oats is only based on association with Koshi who we are currently lynching. You already having a plan is worse than what I am doing. I do not care who town MVP is, I just want to win. You gave not even tried to push your cases by saying why those are the scummiest players. I cannot take this game anymore. Can you make me a VT so that they can just fucking shoot me? | ||
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Half the town did not even try. The other half did incredibly stupid shit. Sure, I fucked up horribly on D1, but then I never claimed to have good D1 reads. Want to just lynch me and end it? I cannot be arsed to keep putting effort in anymore. | ||
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I cannot believe that you blame anyone for lynching Exar after what he did. I cannot fucking believe that you are refusing to read the game based on a meta read. I have been harassed all fucking game for stupid reasons. There are several people who must be town who have not scum hunted. This is all bullshit. | ||
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From your position no one would of voted for Exar. You were in the perfect position to think that he was town. No one else was. There would not of been a no-lynch on D2 no matter what. Mal might of been lynched without his claim, otherwise FT would of (Cora as an unlikely third). The claim put us in a position where we had to lynch him. I went over it so many times, in the end I realized that there was a reasonable chance that he might be town. But from my position I still could not risk it. Blame me for D1, fine. I was very wrong about Paper. But I made the right call on D3, regardless of the outcome. The objective is to win the game by lynching scum, but you have to make sure that you keep the town in a position to actually do that. I was wrong about Malongo D2 aswell, but I would of consolidated on him if needed to get a lynch. | ||
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I can be persuaded that other people are scum, but we will need to discuss it. I am not going to blindly vote with you on D5 when my reads are completely different to yours. | ||
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On August 07 2013 05:38 justanothertownie wrote: Isn't it weird for town tofu to consolidate on his townread koshi at MYLO? No. But it is weird that he did not previously push harder to prevent the lynch on his town-read. | ||
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We cannot spare a lynch on me though, so if anyone has a problem I can just unvote to get a modkill for inactivity. If I am town then it will just change mylo to lylo and will not affect the outcome of the game. | ||
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An IC Vet is completely OP. And me being modkilled will not change the game. ##unvote | ||
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If anyone think that is is unfair just PM the host and have me modkilled. It wont be a big deal, no one will complain. It will not ruin the game. | ||
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No way that certain people would be lurking as town at this point. | ||
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Well played guys, I really did not think FT and Stutters were both scum. | ||
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On August 07 2013 08:22 Koshi wrote: WHY THE FUCK AM I TOWN NOW? Process of elimination. On August 07 2013 07:41 justanothertownie wrote: Why are dead people and host happily talking in this thread? Not new. A smurf using his fake newness to mask his scum. Stutters and Tofu are both reading but not posting. If they were town then they would have been posting. Doesn't matter, scum wins. | ||
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On August 07 2013 08:25 justanothertownie wrote: So, I am a smurf suddenly. Why is that? A new guy would not of criticized the host and dead people like that because a new guy would not know how uncommon it is for host/dead to talk in thread like that. | ||
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Scum should not be allowed to lurk | ||
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On August 07 2013 08:40 FirmTofu wrote: So you think Koshi is scum or are you throwing the game? Neither. I think Koshi might be scum, I will never know until he flips. Also I do not want to cause trouble or be unethical. | ||
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It would of been hard for me to get Cora to vote with me on D5 but I did not really have to. Since I am Vet I can force a no lynch and make them kill Cora anyway. Therefore if I was right I could probably have forced the win for town. Now we have Oats and Koshi voting for Stutters and Tofu wants to vote for Stutters. So it looks to me like I may have been right and Koshi/Oats/Tofu might be scum. We will see soon. | ||
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Also, it fits with what I said above. From day 3 onward I am trying to solve the game and not only lynch scum. | ||
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Day 1 we have Vayne and you just trolling, and you tunnel me. A couple of players lurk, Cora takes a timeout and Rayn joins late. Vivax did not post much D1 etc. Then I push a mislynch. People continue to troll etc. Vivax actually starts to play N1 but then gets nightkilled. Then D2 you troll me. Some people don't post much etc. Then we get the fake cop claim fiasco which engulfs D3. All in all it was a really rough game for me. There were only a handful of people who seemed to be helping and one by one they just got nightkilled. | ||
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I didn't want to tunnel Paper. I did look in other places but I honestly thought that Paper had a reasonable chance of flipping scum. it was totally my fault. Since I am vet I thought if I pushed it hard and he was scum then I would draw the night kill. | ||
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I had Oats/FT/Koshi Damn | ||
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On August 07 2013 09:04 FirmTofu wrote: You guys seriously think I would defend town koshi as sum when scum only needed to secure one mislynch? You think I bussed JAT and stutters the entire game? This town is so bad, we can't even figure out the scumteam when we've already lost. Well I thought Koshi was scum too. I thought that you were rushing to win the game :/ | ||
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Also Koshi, why tunnel me D1 without any reason? That seriously made things harder for me. You never even made a good case.And you gits should of read my D4 case on Oats. It was solid and he squirmed when I questioned him about it :/ | ||
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On August 07 2013 09:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: XRZ unclaim was the worst thing i have ever seen after such a cool play. :/ Well it's actually not a cool play. If Malongo is green town loses. If Malongo is red then town thinks that the real cop is scum. | ||
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On August 07 2013 09:25 Clarity_nl wrote: Even without the vet claim you started looking town d3 Even if a dayvig doesnt kill you it would still be a silly plan. When you're town, just trust that when you scumhunt you'll start looking town. People will figure it out. yeah I wasn't sure how many of Koshi, Malongo and JAT were scum. They already wanted to lynch me and people need to consolidate in majority vote. When so many other people started to say I might be scum N1 I thought it was a setup and I just wanted to stop it then and there. At the time I did not know that we had no Vig or Doctor. Without a Vig or Doctor the Vet role would of gave us an extra lynch if I could of taken a shot instead. | ||
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I admit my D1 was not great. I played scum the previous game and it took me a while to get out of the scum mindset. | ||
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On August 07 2013 09:32 exarezee wrote: i had to unclaim at some point. town thought cop was scum. i knew rayn was cop. cop thought i was scum. no other play here. hope u guys believe me. no other play. Totally, I understand why you had to un-claim. That's partially why I thought that you were scum. When you fake-claim cop like everyone will assume that the real cop is scum. Sorry. | ||
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On August 07 2013 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oh so cool. The game apparently ended when we still had a chance? That´s cool and everything. We were going to lose anyway. Cora had us by the balls. | ||
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On August 07 2013 09:40 FirmTofu wrote: Unless Oats was going to save JAT, you didn't have a chance. Well Oats thought that JAT was scum. | ||
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On August 07 2013 09:43 Aquanim wrote: Night 1: nobody Night 2: nobody Night 3: rayn Night 4: idk I wasn't here He protected nobody?! | ||
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On August 07 2013 09:46 exarezee wrote: and you are an asshole vayne. giving it to u str8 Seriously Exar, please never do that again. There can be no good outcome. | ||
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On August 07 2013 10:03 exarezee wrote: @hz i was close to certain malongo was scum. realky worried about no lynch. it was certainly a judgement call. not going to say i wont do it again, but will think about it more given the responses. Well if you had not done it we would still of lynched someone, even if it was Malongo. The problem with doing that is even if you hit scum you get yourself lynched the following day, unless the scum shoot you. You are basically betting on scum shooting you. Now, they should of shot you and I do not know why they did not, it just ended really badly. | ||
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On August 07 2013 10:25 Oatsmaster wrote: I only called you confirmed town I was suspecting CJS and stutters was definitely scum. You suspected CJS because you knew that we had a doctor. No one else knew that, so it just made you look scummy to me God, I read scum QT around the end of D2. If we had consolidated on FT or Cora... The 4 people most likely to be lynched D2 ended up being Malongo, FT, Cora and Stutters. And it all went to hell because we could not get a majority. | ||
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On August 07 2013 10:39 Clarity_nl wrote: Yeah majority voting is rough. Another reason xrz claim screwed us :D Although honestly, by the end of d3 we should have realized it went too smoothly. Everyone was lurking while rayn was spamming and since 6 hours into the day we basically had a majority on xrz. Well if Koshi had gotten off of my back I might of been able to see clearer Also, I honestly thought Cora was town. I thought that if we had a doctor they claimed a couple of hours before the end of D3 so that we do not lynch Exar. | ||
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I enjoyed playing scum more than town. | ||
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I thought that you and Stutters were both individually scum at the end. But how could I vote for either of you when Koshi was being Koshi and Oats had a townslip on Tofu? Also, there was the greencheck on Cora :/ | ||
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Vivax did not do much D1 but started to get good N1, then got nightkilled. Vayne Did nothing but troll until D2, got good N2 and then got nightkilled. Koshi just trolled and tunneled me even when he should not have. I had no idea that Oats might be a doctor. JAT was new and started bad, but he did actually get good from N3 onwards. Exar made what I consider to be an unnecessary big play that totally changed the game. The whole game just felt really hard for me. Rayn was useful when not drunk but he was unlocky with his night actions. Clarity was helpful but then got nightkilled. I thought that Cora was with me due to the green check, but he was being useless and now I know why. All in all it just seemed like a really hard game for me. I did try, but people hindered instead of helping. | ||
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On August 07 2013 11:07 Oatsmaster wrote: Dont be too hard on yourself hzflank, although when someone hard defends a scumread of yours, one of them probably isnt scum. Tbh that was an ego problem. Because I knew I could not be night-killed, I thought the scum team would be worried if I had them all nailed. I thought that you were playing out of desperation to win before you had to nightkill Cora/Rayn. I was too arrogant. | ||
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Exar was lynched for his fake-claim. You can call that a bad lynch but I never will. There is no good pro-town reason for making that fake-claim. I made a bit of an association case against Koshi but that is not why he was lynched. My case on Oats did not rely on association. My case on Tofu did not rely on association. The biggest association that I actually made that really hurt is was that Tofu and Stutters are not both scum. | ||
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Edit: Even then that relies on Malongo actually flipping red. | ||
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Titanic was an accurate title for this game. | ||
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There were a lot of reasons as to why we could not see that properly, though. The green check on Cora really hurt. I think I would like to second what was said earlier about majority lynch. I am not sure that it is suitable in a game where town need more correct lynches than mislynches. After lynching town D1 (my fault, but I thought it was expected D1 anyway) the majority lynch put us in a position where it was really hard to find scum, because we needed almost everyone to agree. | ||
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I was trying to win (Rayn and JAT were obviously also trying to win) and Koshi explicitly stated that JAT and me were scum and he wanted to just call us scum to look good post game. I thought that if Koshi was town he would not be caring about how he looked postgame. | ||
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Start of D2: Vayne claims red check on Malongo. Everyone questions Vayne, except Rayn who trusts Vayne right away. 1 hour before D2 lynch: Rayn claims cop with green check on Vayne. 40 minutes before D2 deadline, Exar claims cop with red check on Malongo. Malongo is lynched and flips red. N2 Vayne is killed and Exar is roleblocked. Rayn gets a cop check off. D3 a couple of hours in: Exar says he was fake claiming cop. Exar gets lynched D3. Would you of lynched Exar? | ||
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On August 08 2013 02:18 Oatsmaster wrote: I didnt want to claim doc cause I didnt think it would help at the time I went to sleep. Yeah while you were sleeping Cora posted some stuff may may have set off some alarm bells for you. For me Cora was cop confirmed town, and you were likely scum so I got it all wrong. | ||
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