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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
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s0Lstice
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s0Lstice
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s0Lstice
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lots of scummy shit happening right now, so let's get to work. this is the scummiest post in the thread so far: On June 30 2013 07:00 Stutters695 wrote: Know something we don't? The op lists two possible millers as roles. Look at the thought process here. Rayn seems sure there are not 2 millers in the game-->Rayn knows how many millers are in the game-->Rayn is scum. For this jump to be made, Stutters would have to think scum know how many millers are in the game to get a scummy vibe from Rayn. This makes zero sense. Can't wait to hear your answer on this one my dear stutters. Early town read on Rayn for diving on this. His reaction exactly matched mine. I don't agree at all with your town read on Lazer though, Rayn. Look at how much time he has spent on Marv's miller claim. You know how to deal with a miller claim? You ignore it. All it means is don't DT check the person and that's it. Figure out their alignment just like you would anybody else. The fact that he goes on and on about it looks to me not like he is trying to get at Marv's alignment, but rather he is feeling comfortable talking about a very safe topic in preference to anything of consequence. When he made this quote: On June 30 2013 09:33 Lazermonkey wrote: But what do you want to talk about then? While I agree talking about his claim isn't very productive untill more players have showed up, I'd rather talk about Marv than nothing. ...there was plenty to talk about. Doesn't sit right with me. More, his conclusion from the discussion should be the public assertion that Marv is not 100% confirmed town. He mentions this, but hesitates to draw a line between scummy or wrong for the people who are saying otherwise (Rayn). Smells fishy. Vivax- What are you doing here? On June 30 2013 07:45 Vivax wrote: Marv so silent. Whassup marv. That seems unusual. Passively flinging shit on a guy who is probably not here, and said activity would be light in the early going? Explain yourself. Explain this too while you're at it: On June 30 2013 07:59 Vivax wrote: Well ok. I reviewed things a little. We have 2 guys saying their activity will be shit on D1 (marv and the new guy) Then we have WoS say: I'm not really going to be around until late tonight, so no (as reply to "Hey you got anything to say?") So yeah, kinda asshole answer. But also kinda careless. I'd treat it as null, and it's not really comparable to the announcement that the whole of D1 will be of low activity. I also realized I partially parroted Rayn's reasons for stutter's posts looking bad. Apologies I'm a little drunk coz of my weekend feast and wrote pretty spontaneously. Going to bed now tho. See you sober. Who gives a shit? Why are you so self-conscious? Anyway, little break now. More in just a bit. | ||
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s0Lstice
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On June 30 2013 13:10 JarJarDrinks wrote: How is the post scummy though? Yes, It's a pretty dumb statement because like you said: It makes no sense to think that scum would know how many millers are in the game. Which means there's no way the that it could implicate rayn as scum. So if any thought was given to that post, stutters would realize that. I think the fact that stutters clearly made the post without giving it much thought makes him more likely to be town. If it could in no way implicate Rayn as scum, why did Stutters suggest Rayn is scum? Do townies suggest people are scum without considering the reason behind why they are doing so? Townies call people scum for BAD reasons, yes, but no townie does it without any reason at all. This is what scum do. | ||
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I'd argue that the implication that Rayn had access to information that he shouldn't have is just about the same thing. | ||
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s0Lstice
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On June 30 2013 14:01 JarJarDrinks wrote: My top scum suspect right now is s0Lstice. His entire first post + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2013 13:00 s0Lstice wrote: my inbox is evergreen lots of scummy shit happening right now, so let's get to work. this is the scummiest post in the thread so far: Look at the thought process here. Rayn seems sure there are not 2 millers in the game-->Rayn knows how many millers are in the game-->Rayn is scum. For this jump to be made, Stutters would have to think scum know how many millers are in the game to get a scummy vibe from Rayn. This makes zero sense. Can't wait to hear your answer on this one my dear stutters. Early town read on Rayn for diving on this. His reaction exactly matched mine. I don't agree at all with your town read on Lazer though, Rayn. Look at how much time he has spent on Marv's miller claim. You know how to deal with a miller claim? You ignore it. All it means is don't DT check the person and that's it. Figure out their alignment just like you would anybody else. The fact that he goes on and on about it looks to me not like he is trying to get at Marv's alignment, but rather he is feeling comfortable talking about a very safe topic in preference to anything of consequence. When he made this quote: ...there was plenty to talk about. Doesn't sit right with me. More, his conclusion from the discussion should be the public assertion that Marv is not 100% confirmed town. He mentions this, but hesitates to draw a line between scummy or wrong for the people who are saying otherwise (Rayn). Smells fishy. Vivax- What are you doing here? Passively flinging shit on a guy who is probably not here, and said activity would be light in the early going? Explain yourself. Explain this too while you're at it: Who gives a shit? Why are you so self-conscious? Anyway, little break now. More in just a bit. Yea, or I'm town and am attacking stuff that looks scummy. Let's hear your explanation on how I'm 'reaching.' | ||
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s0Lstice
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On June 30 2013 13:35 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh right Oats it was you who called him scum for not following up and whatnot. Do you not remember how he played in Ego when he was town? Or Carnival Cruise? I don't see anything he has done so far as being scummy at all. Solstice I'd put Lazermonkey as town right now, strong analysis right off the bat, gets discussion moving, not afraid to give concrete reads and throw his vote where he wants. It's also the way he does his analysis; he shows he's actively trying to figure out what marv is up to and while this could be fake I don't believe it is. What about his analysis was strong? He spent all that time trying to dissect a miller claim when there were definitely more important things going on. I call it choosing the safe route. | ||
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s0Lstice
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On June 30 2013 14:20 Oatsmaster wrote: So whats your problem with stutters statement? Its accurate I've explained this before, but here goes. Stutters expressed suspicion towards Rayn with his 'know something we don't?' question. This is an implication that Rayn had information that townies shouldn't have. So, follow the thought process. Rayn knows there is only 1 miller in the game--> Rayn is suspicious for knowing this. Except...scum don't have this information. It doesn't feel right. | ||
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s0Lstice
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bed time for me. I'd like to see if others get similar vibes from Lazermonkey and Vivax as well, so comment on what I wrote folks. | ||
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Lazer is back to null for me. Few things..I actually like how he treated the Vayne thing. You can see the recognition in his posts that Vayne must be a lightning rod in every game he plays in, and he asked where instead he could have attacked. I like too that he defended Rayn against thread sentiment here: On June 30 2013 20:29 Lazermonkey wrote: My biggest problem with Rayn being scum atm is the fact that it seems that he took an unnecessarily hard aproach to the whole Marv being miller thing. Why couldn't he just say something like "you you guys are right" and avoid all this shit at him? Stuff like this is more likely to come from a stubborn townie IMO. Speaking of Rayn, I do not want to lynch him today. This thing with Marv is being blown way out of proportion. There is easy town motivation for Rayn being comfortable with Marv based on his claim. It literally boils down 'Marv is unlikely to fakeclaim miller 5 minutes into the game.' This is not an unreasonable thought. It's not about whether you agree with the assessment, it's about whether or not it makes sense for town Rayn to think this, or rather, if there is equally plausible town motivation for doing so. I say there is...how many times have you seen a townie give another townie green points for a miller claim? Now, in regards to Stutters...his response to the Rayn thing: On June 30 2013 22:46 Stutters695 wrote: Alright, I'm catching up now. Jesus Christ I didn't expect that type of response. I'll go through and answer people's questions and get my reads out in a bit. To answer the main question though, it was early d1. I wanted to see how he'd react to an accusation. I did find it weird he was so sure there was 1 miller and there is the possibility he could be scum and assume because he/his teammate got RB he accidentally slipped that town had to have better PRs than miller. Obviously since no one else claimed, it is impossible, but after the triple cop claim and double mason fiasco in Les Mis I'm a bit weary of people who "know"how the setup is supposed to be. With that said though his reaction and thought process makes him the towniest motherfucker here. Especially after themed, I really doubt he'd be scum. Now catching up. The explanation makes sense, but I find myself immediately not caring because of the follow-up on Rayn being the towniest etc. Oats commented on this, and Vivax summed up my thoughts pretty much with this: On July 01 2013 00:24 Vivax wrote: I can look it up myself I guess: So basically, what makes Rayn so townie is that he asks a question you don't answer, votes for you, and asks me to look at you. Then, when so many agree on you looking bad, he switches to WoS, asking us to find the reason, I still don't see him mentioning that reason by himself in his filter. So basically, you, his first scumread, never answered his question (which you could do now btw). He proceeds to drop a vote on WoS, then is busy defending himself, but nevertheless he doesn't try to find reasons for you or WoS to be decent lynches. So yeah, I kinda have trouble seeing how his reaction is so townie in your opinion. Happy birthday by the way. Also this chain of posts seriously makes my skin crawl: + Show Spoiler + On July 01 2013 03:47 Stutters695 wrote: You're misunderstanding. I'm leaning scum on him now, that was explaining why I thought he was town when I woke up this morning and did a quick skim. Although I do think accepting a miller claim isn't unreasonable. It essentially is just having someone say "hey, don't check me because you'll waste your power (pre-parity announcement) and cause a mislynch." It doesn't in any way confirm Marv, but ensures he is judged on the basis of his actual play. That he's so sure Marv is town is worrisome but I can see where he is coming from to a certain extent. I also don't like how many people are slipping by saying absolutely nothing. Even if we lynch him we should hear his reads and force these hardcore lurkers to post something. On July 01 2013 03:50 Stutters695 wrote: I guess part of it is how easy this has been that's concerning me. Scum could be sitting idly by arguing between us but when everyone active is on Rayn we'll get nothing going forward, we should at least look into a couple other people. On July 01 2013 04:15 Stutters695 wrote: @WoS Je m'en fous This is how I always play. My day 1 reads are notoriously bad. I find generating discussion to be a much better use of my time. I literally have no idea what he thinks of Rayn. Leaning scum, but then offers repeated hedges against the notion? It's filled with trepidation. Yea, I still want to kill this guy. Also, Vivax is looking town. Don't drink and post I guess, dude. ##vote Stutters | ||
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s0Lstice
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In Les Mis, as scum, he has a laser focus on BH In one of his newb games, as scum, he has a laser focus on jkirby. In Roulette, as town, he pushes Oats, but also expresses suspicions towards WoS and Sentinel. In another newb game, as town, he goes after TheRavensName, and also Frogron almost equally. Links to these games are in this spoiler, have a look: + Show Spoiler + I'm typically not a fan of including newb games in a meta argument, but it's definitely enough to make me nervous of JarJar. I want to know who is scum outside of me, JarJar, and why. | ||
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s0Lstice
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its pretty clear you were writing that while I was reading your past games. if the meta doesn't hold, it doesn't hold. I'm very frustrated in regards to you JJ. I feel like the combination of you suspecting me for bad reasons and misreading you in Les Mis is really fucking with me. I think the wise thing is to wait and see a bit. I definitely need to read gumshoe. I haven't had time to look hard at his filter after a feel based town read, so he's a bit of a blindspot for me. | ||
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s0Lstice
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Marv, do me a favor and read through Stutters quick and tell me what you think. | ||
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On July 02 2013 05:47 Lazermonkey wrote: Ignore stutters please. This lynch is between me/fuba/WoS/Vayne. That's easier said than done. I got an immediate town feeling from him in Roulette (before I had to replace out) and it's just not happening here...plus the stuff I've written on him already. We got time, and it seems like there are plenty of people here. How is Stutters not an option? | ||
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s0Lstice
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On June 30 2013 12:22 VayneAuthority wrote: Something rubs me the wrong way about lazermonkeys posting Starts off the thread not even wanting to scum hunt. Throws down a troll vote early, see jaybrundage in roulette for how something innocent just pads your filter with bs. Eager to jump on the stutters be before he has even defended himself His 6th post is just insanely scummy read it and tell me otherwise Rest of his filter is useless speculation He gets my vote until I can talk with him more and get a better read Can't vote right now as its much too precise to bold shit on an iPad but will contribute more when I'm home tomorrow night This post is the most analysis I've ever seen him do on day 1. This is lame, but I feel inclined to give townie points here. It feels like a genuine change. What do you guys think about this post? WoS was talking about it a little earlier. | ||
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s0Lstice
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On July 02 2013 05:56 marvellosity wrote: I'm not certain being non-commital as fuck is even alignment indicative for him. We've both seen him as scum Marv, I dont remember anything like that post in Les Mis. It's just so starkly different. Why even make a post like this as town? Have you bothered looking at his subsequent posts for how his view changes on Lazer? How he's as non-committal as fuck basically? | ||
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I thought we have an hour? Marv you'd be the last person I'd sheep right now. | ||
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##vote mkfuba | ||
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On July 02 2013 06:06 marvellosity wrote: My claim makes me very very likely town, so this is a really fucking dumb thing to say. you've been gone pretty much all of day 1. this is a pretty terrible time to be arguing about it, so let's argue later | ||
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s0Lstice
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On July 02 2013 06:09 marvellosity wrote: this is the perfect time to be arguing about it because there's a lynch on the line. the fact i've been away all day changes nothing about the claim itself, which rayn was right about. I'm not even talking about the claim. I'm talking about your reads. You being gone and out of the flow of the thread doesn't give me a lot of confidence. You just said a minute ago that certain players are too dense for you to even read right now. I don't mean this as a personal insult, just you don't have the clout to be asking people to be sheeping you right now. | ||
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s0Lstice
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On July 02 2013 06:12 marvellosity wrote: Sure I do. I read Vayne properly. Dunno why you're behaving like this, it isn't helpful. That one post I pointed out feels townie enough that I wouldn't want to kill Vayne today. I want to talk about this too: On July 02 2013 05:32 marvellosity wrote: why are we not lynching Vayne? His filter is extraordinarily short (i know, i know). also just found this Vayne pretty much admits himself in past games that he likes to solve games by night interactions and kills, claims etc. Seems completely against his MO to advise against it this game. I don't agree with this point. I can see possible town motivation from Vayne for thinking a mass claim in this set-up would be unsportsmanlike, vs. the much more typical interactions and NK analysis (his MO), which is generally much more in the spirit of a normal game. | ||
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s0Lstice
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all things considered, I think fuba is a pretty decent lynch. I was nullish, but his more recent stuff looks bad news bears. let's stay put here. | ||
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Back later | ||
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On July 02 2013 21:29 marvellosity wrote: s0lstice: you ended up plopping your vote on fuba at the end of the day, when you hadn't mentioned him at all previously in your filter. Explain how and why your vote ended up on fuba please. this is due for an immediate answer. as I said, fuba was sorta nullish for me leading up to the lynch. his first big wall post didn't do much for me, and I wanted to wait and see. as we are going in to the lynch, fuba is present in thread. I would have liked to lynch stutters, but I didn't have much success garnering support. of the lynches that were possible, I liked fuba the best after flicking through filters quickly. look here: On July 02 2013 05:02 mkfuba07 wrote: These start just about at when rayn starts bold shouting. Responses to more recent events to follow shortly. rayn pretty emotional about this. seems kinda invested. reaction really different from his one in roulette. Not sure if availability to play is a factor. Lazer's 6th post: Don't really understand why it's so scummy. I mean, he seems to make a series of assumptions that I probably wouldn't make, but I could see town doing it. Was hoping for something more compelling. Vayne's reaction to me: Eh, WoS seemed to feel that you were town in roulette, even though he kept pointing out how he could interpret your play as scummy. I trust his synopsis, because it was roughly in sync with what I felt in the middle of the game, after I played with you a while, and before I got all setup-crazy. Top scumread: rayn or stutters. They're kinda tied. gumshoe, regarding JJD: "Wow, flip flop much? Also a willingness to vote for someone you think is good to save yourself... is towny how?" Was thinking of gumshoe as leaning town with some confusing/misguided reasoning, but this is really stretching for scumminess. I've seen plenty of townies say something like JDD did, and it was really only called into question when the person who said it was already scummy for other reasons. S0L: has a point about Lazer (in that what he said about rayn seems to come from a town perspective), but the point about rayn isn't entirely valid, imo. The thing about scum is that they know when they've been legit caught in a slip. And for me it's not entirely the fact that rayn instantly believed marv's claim, it's that he won't admit how much easier it would have been for marv to fakeclaim given that he didn't post his role name and presumably all of the millers have claimed if they were going to. S0L also makes some good points about stutters. rayn's read post: ugh, *now* he's unsure of marv? Regarding me: the people I commented on were the ones I'd given the most thought to at the time. Believe it or not, that post took me something like four hours to write, having to read through everything and analyze it. I didn't comment on people I hadn't given a lot of thought to, which included the most recent topics of discussion. This isn't anything new for me. I also never said I was good at reading WoS. I said he would probably reveal himself through his play, and as such wasn't really on my mind at the time. Finally, not adding anything to a case that I already find convincing isn't scummy. If I had anything to add, I would have said it earlier instead of saying I was leaning town on you. I intentionally avoided just repeating everything vivax and oats said, because it's a waste of time. I pointed out what convinced me, and moved on. As for WoS, he was completely off my radar, which isn't really a good sign in his case. Dove his filter *really* fast: D1 Roulette he was townie almost from the start. So far he's comparably a lurker, but his thoughts have been in line with my own many times throughout the thread. Possibly scum if his activity doesn't improve (anyone know if WoS lurks as scum?), but definitely not a lynch today imo. JJD is gonna need a filter dive as well as a reread of the cases on him, which I'm not doing at this exact moment. His responses to gumshoe's "implication post" make me lean townie on him, though. The rest is stuff that I've generally skimmed over because I know I'll have to go back and analyze it all together. JJD's JDD+gumshoe post: Pretty convincing. Why would town try to paint someone as scummy by pointing out something that they themselves would do in that situation? That's not town perspective. claiming names: Thought it looked like a good idea, but as JJD said, it would actually break the game, right? Stutters' case against me: in a following post. There's too much to respond to XD Followed by lots of stuff that I'm gonna have to read through again. Lemme know if you really want me to focus on something, apparently there's less time than I thought. Feeling most comfortable with a stutters/rayn lynch. This is pretty proximal to lynch time. Reading through, I'm thinking 'fuba has a scum read on gumshoe.' As we draw near lynch though, do you remember what he was doing with that valuable time? Arguing with a scum read who wasn't getting lynched. What a townie does here is do their very best to get a scum read lynched. Thing is, JJ was in thread pushing gumshoe. Fuba could have helped out here immensely. Conversely, he could have gone balls to the wall for stutters, by talking to pretty much anyone BUT stutters. It didn't look at all to me like he really cared for the lynch, so I was comfortable putting my vote there and suggesting others do the same. I wish I wasn't so pressed for time, otherwise I could have pushed a lot harder. | ||
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s0Lstice
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he told me something in Les Mis where we were both town, and hence had no reason to lie to me. he said he doesn't get in serious hot head shitfests as scum because it feels unsportsmanlike. I'm seeing that here...he is staying in thread and throwing down with reckless abandon. he straight up told someone 'fuck you' because he was being pestered from 100 different angles. I'm leaning town because of this. | ||
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I'm looking at this: On June 30 2013 21:10 Lazermonkey wrote: I don't get how the sentences are contradicting each other : /. And its not really that much of WIFOM. If I am scum, couldn't I just say "hey, these posts by Vayne probably means he is scum" and then just push for his lynch, not giving a fuck? Instead I said "hey, these posts by Vayne are suspcious, but if he usually plays like this then its not that big of a scum tell". And no, I'm obviously not giving him auto-town status just because he is a lynch bait, that would be retarded Lol. But there is a reason lynch baits are lynch baits. They get lynched. Okay, this is what I wanted from you! As a side note, my 6th post is this Maybe I'm a bit biased in this issue (^^)but I fail to see how this makes me scum. Do you think he internalized this at all? I'm revisiting his treatment of Vayne. Before I liked that he didn't go gung-ho on him and actually cared whether or not Vayne looked typically scummy. I'm not certain anymore. He references it again here: On July 02 2013 05:00 Lazermonkey wrote: Vayne looks bad. Sad that he is a lynch bait but I'm kinda OK with killing him. I don't understand at all his reasoning for voting me. First I'm scum then town, then I'm town, then I'm null, then scum again. And that's right when the wagon on me is about to start | ||
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On July 02 2013 05:13 Lazermonkey wrote: Ow, missed that. Still WoS claimed that you had played a style that didn't "fit" TL and that the most townie you you played was when you was scum, guess I misinterpreted that. Lol, I bet you didn't even open noir mafia. If you read some of the end game comments you'll see what Vivax said isn't true at all. We won that because town was lazy fuck. I had like 6 pages filter and was considered active in a game that went to D3. I wasn't good at looking townie. And even if I was, this is still a stupid conclusion to draw. Yhea, this guy looks quite townie, but he can play townie as scum as well so I'll lynch him. OH actually this is interesting. I missed it He justifies the Vayne lynch going BOTH ways. As in he wants to lynch him for looking crazy scummy...oh but he would also lynch him for looking town because he looks the most town as scum. | ||
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When he claimed...he thought there were only 4 minutes left right? Could he not have just randomly picked a blue and got lucky that there isn't actually a cop in the game? | ||
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On July 03 2013 12:52 gumshoe wrote: Fuba has yet to claim, WOS is scum. What more do you want? BTW do you really believe that Wos just happened to be role blocked, and that he claimed last? Why is anyone else more suspicious than him? What major contribution has WOS made outside of being not outright scummy? Why do you still put stock in Oats word? He was wrong about Rayne and hes flip flopped for seemingly no reason on WOS other than that I attacked him. It is within the realm of possibility that he was role-blocked and claimed last. Whether it is likely or not is pretty difficult to discern. Like I just said, I'd really prefer to just ignore the claims, considering how it shook out. I want to lynch the scummiest player. I'm talking to both of you because you are here. If we only talked to people who were right all the time, it'd be a pretty quiet game. | ||
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s0Lstice
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Just from catching up with the thread...I feel better about Stutters and want to double down on Fuba. Stutters' case on the latter was...I think the only case I've ever seen him make. Since then, he hasn't really done anything that I find objectionable. He argued with Fuba with what looked to me like genuine fervor. The more I look at Fuba's actions around the D1 lynch, the more I dislike it. Lazer is my 2nd atm. He didn't seem to give a shit about the how or why his vote ended up where it did. | ||
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s0Lstice
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On July 03 2013 13:10 gumshoe wrote: Sigh, no one gives my claim credence because I might be scum, but they wont kill me because I might be town : P. Revenge townie 22. Seriously if I was Marv and I came in here with this case yall would doubtlessly be down with it. Well maybe not Marv this game XD. Though I'll agree with you for now, they're are other scum out there. Also how do you feel about Fuba not having claimed? They're are also no spots left to claim but survivor. Will you believe him if thats what he decides? Fuba claiming survivor is a definite worry. We are in trouble if he is telling the truth and we lynch him. Today definitely needs to be a scum lynch. The best thing to do is have other, quality scum reads at the ready, and to cross that bridge when we come to it. This is what I plan on doing...but I'm reasonably sure that whatever happens, Fuba is not town. | ||
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My general impression when I was catching up is that you have the right thematic elements of his contributions this game. He just seemed...inactive (less so than me to be fair). Nothing really leaped off the page, but I will be looking closer. | ||
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On July 03 2013 11:29 s0Lstice wrote: something important on Marv while I'm reading he told me something in Les Mis where we were both town, and hence had no reason to lie to me. he said he doesn't get in serious hot head shitfests as scum because it feels unsportsmanlike. I'm seeing that here...he is staying in thread and throwing down with reckless abandon. he straight up told someone 'fuck you' because he was being pestered from 100 different angles. I'm leaning town because of this. take this in to consideration. mobbing Marv when he is town is going to be damaging for us, and until we get a scum lynch we are really walking the line. | ||
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fuba...did you start the game with the intention to play pro-town? | ||
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On July 04 2013 12:15 gumshoe wrote: Jar Jar Solstic and Fuba, all here in force. All pretty much preaching the same tune. Cute. Your smarm is not amusing in the least. | ||
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On July 04 2013 12:31 gumshoe wrote: I apologize ) : that was not nice. I dont actually know what you are, but the company you seem to keep is somewhat alarming. yea I get that, but I don't care. I want to get this lynch right. one thing that I keep kicking around is that survivor WoS' shortest path to victory just before when he renounced his vigi claim was with scum (I think? lynching a townie today would put us at 5-3-1-->3-3-1 after NKs). I feel like this should have been really attractive to him...enough to not claim his true role and try to get the lynch onto a townie. | ||
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##vote fuba | ||
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On July 05 2013 00:20 marvellosity wrote: Anyway I think I'm feeling about as good about this lynch as I'm going to. So let's see how it goes. This is basically where I'm at too. I also think that WoS legitimately thought that he was fucked, and hence just didn't have the fight in him to make an attempt at winning with scum today by getting a townie lynched. Just general attitudes though as well. Oats I think said this. Fuba's postings don't line up with the narrative he is pushing here. | ||
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On July 05 2013 01:00 Oatsmaster wrote: well I assume he didnt know who the survivor was and thought that he wont be counterclaimed. scum team had to be thinking strongly that WoS was survivor. WoS explained the overtures he was making to them. | ||
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On July 05 2013 01:02 marvellosity wrote: I think counterclaiming a team-mate is genius btw. It does guarantee a scum-lynch day 2 and the subsequent reduction of kp though, also the lynch between WoS and fuba today wasn't a certain thing one way or another. Keeping the 2 KP is pretty important. Survivor claim is unique in that it gives scum team the option of keeping all their members, as well as the possibility of getting the lynch onto a townie today and winning. | ||
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On July 05 2013 01:13 marvellosity wrote: yeah. so why do you tihnk we should be discussing that again?  I was trying to get a handle on how attractive each of those options was. Thinking out loud. If CCing a teammate is the optimal play despite going down a KP, then it muddies the waters a bit. I think though that the survivor claim has enough juice that scum could have decided to go that route. | ||
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I'm one to talk I know...but it makes me feel better about my choice. | ||
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On July 05 2013 02:48 Lazermonkey wrote: But look at what WoS is posting. Just defending his own play and why we should lynch fuba no comments on anything else in case he dies. I don't think this is alignment indicative at all. He is doing that because today is about the two of them, and them only. He is not commenting on anything else because he is an outed survivor, and needs to strike a balance between the two teams in the game. Doing nothing for either is balance. There is no problem there as I see it. | ||
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On July 04 2013 01:32 WaveofShadow wrote: Phoneposting atm awww nobody wants to react to my posting makes me sad Town: Im dead anyway so I honestly couldnt care less if you guys want to hand the game to scum but id seriously consider hearing me out when the time comes scumteam: you forced me into this when I was trying to be all nice to you. i suppose you didnt have a choice considering fuba had to claim late and might have been lynched today especially if he took the miller claim but now you can be damn sure ill push for it. that is of course unless town doesnt care about what i have to say in which case the games is yours gentlmen Can you explain WoS exactly what you were doing to be nice to the scumteam? Are you speaking of claiming vig instead of survivor? | ||
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On July 04 2013 01:32 WaveofShadow wrote: Phoneposting atm awww nobody wants to react to my posting makes me sad Town: Im dead anyway so I honestly couldnt care less if you guys want to hand the game to scum but id seriously consider hearing me out when the time comes scumteam: you forced me into this when I was trying to be all nice to you. i suppose you didnt have a choice considering fuba had to claim late and might have been lynched today especially if he took the miller claim but now you can be damn sure ill push for it. that is of course unless town doesnt care about what i have to say in which case the games is yours gentlmen The tone of this post says you expected the scum team to know who you were. Look here too: On July 04 2013 06:38 WaveofShadow wrote: Pretty much right aside from some (important) minor details. The survivor claim blindsided me as you can see, my posting during the claims indicated I assumed fuba would simply be fucked because he'd be forced to grab the last miller spot. Instead mafia decided to pit me against him since he was under suspicion anyway on a gamble that I'd be more suspicious and they'd keep the extra KP. They gambled poorly in my opinion. Essentially they lose fuba one day early and lose the extra KP making it easier for you guys now; had you lynched me THEN lynched fuba you'd be lost at LYLO because you have no idea where to go next. I'd like to think them losing a KP means I'm safe, but yeah....JK is a good role toi have. Now you are saying this: On July 05 2013 03:06 WaveofShadow wrote: Essentially I hoped to get through the day with scum thinking there was survivor 'out there' since they'd know they didn't RB me, and for town not to even bother thinking there was a survivor since scum could have RBed. I didn't think it would unravel this quickly, but I assumed it would. Can you explain? | ||
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it really sums up to what I said earlier. my read on WoS has steadily been 'he exists' and my read on fuba is scum. this makes sense with how I think this CC business went down. the discussions afterwards pass the feel check. WoS is all yolo and fuba is not. I also think Marv has a point with the dick-move stuff. I think this is the right lynch. | ||
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On July 05 2013 04:29 Lazermonkey wrote: I agree that fuba looked worse up untill this point. But What about the stuff I am saying? Do you not think its really fucking wierdo that he would claim vigi because he wanted to out fuba as scum? The discussion is really irrelevant I'd say. WoS is just repeating the same BS arguments over. Sorry, had to drive home. I think most of the problems you are having right now come from the fact that you assume that WoS meticulously thought through every possibility with his claim. You are taking this as a given...that WoS would play through the scenario mistake free. Or you are scum  | ||
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As before I've been doing my best to keep track on my phone, but things won't quiet down for me completely until tomorrow. Several comments have been made about a few of my actions this game, so I'd like to talk about those. Defending vayne on day 1 came from that weird analysis post that he made. This is the one I mean: On June 30 2013 12:22 VayneAuthority wrote: Something rubs me the wrong way about lazermonkeys posting Starts off the thread not even wanting to scum hunt. Throws down a troll vote early, see jaybrundage in roulette for how something innocent just pads your filter with bs. Eager to jump on the stutters be before he has even defended himself His 6th post is just insanely scummy read it and tell me otherwise Rest of his filter is useless speculation He gets my vote until I can talk with him more and get a better read Can't vote right now as its much too precise to bold shit on an iPad but will contribute more when I'm home tomorrow night Having just played with scum Vayne, I don't remember him posting anything like this. There is actual D1 analysis here, and like I said, I was inclined to give him townie points for it. It not a concrete thing by any means, but it was enough to make me not want to lynch him day 1. My defense of him was a combination of this notion, plus being a little upset that we seemed to be as a town heading for a Marv sheep on a target I didn't really love despite him being absent for most of day 1. The whole thing put a bad taste in my mouth about the lynch. In that time leading up to lynch, I was trying to stay checked in despite other forces calling me away from the game. I did what I could do to push my favored lynch (stutters). I asked Marv to flick through his filter, and advocated for a switch to him as it seemed there was enough time/people in thread. When it wasn't going anywhere, I took a quick glance on the competing wagons, and liked Fuba's the most. I explained my reasoning later (it's in my filter addressed to Marv), but not at the time of the vote because again...divided attention. I don't really get why me being the 5th vote on Fuba on day 2 matters. I was in thread discussing it when there were no votes practically, went away and quite a bit of discussion happened, and then I voted when I was back in thread after reading all the new stuff and after having thought about it while I was away. I asked a few questions here and there to solidify things, and we made the right lynch. The case I wrote on JJD didn't hold because it was based on his tunneling scum meta. I wrote it, posted it, and then something like 10 minutes later, he posted his case on gumshoe. It was clear to me he had been writing it while I was writing mine, so it not as if he was reacting to it after I posted it. The timing was pretty funny, and it broke the meta case instantaneously. If he's not tunneling, then he's not tunneling. I retracted it because it was the right thing to do. I think a lot of the reasons people find me scummy can be attributed to my inactivity. Lots of shit happens in between the times I can be in thread, to the point that I have to break everything down and rebuild every read. I can't say I blame you guys. I think it's clear another break from TL is in order until I can get some solid freetime, as right now it can't be helped. I'm still reading, but I'm here if I've forgotten something I need to respond to. | ||
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I feel pretty darn good about Marv being town. Vivax and gumshoe look really town too. The only way Vivax is scum is if the missing NK was intentional, and I think that's horribly unlikely. Gumshoe did all the heavy lifting in the WoS vs. fuba lynch. If either of them are scum, then gg you earned the win. This leaves Stutters, JJD, and WoS. This is where I'm looking. | ||
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like..what are you doing? | ||
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On July 07 2013 13:29 JarJarDrinks wrote: seems wierd to exonerate gumshoe for his part in WoS vs Fuba and then still have WoS in your list. It's not weird. gumshoe's efforts on day 2 show nearly unmistakable desire to solve the game and further discussion. I'm not ruling out the possibility of WoS being scum and therefore gumshoe being wong (sort of?). But you don't need the wrong or the right portion to see the townie intentions in gumshoe's d2 posting. | ||
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Things look dire for you right now and your efforts to slough the attention on to me are full of misrepresentation. It looks malicious to be quite frank. | ||
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There's a few things about JJD that make me nervous about this lynch. First, day 1 there is a Rayn lynch wagon. A JJD wagon forms counter to it, and here is what JJD says: On July 01 2013 11:02 JarJarDrinks wrote: OK. Rayne's kinda convinced me that he's town over the last few pages. I think he's legit pissed @ oats. I'd prefer not lynching rayn (though if I have to vote him to save myself I obviously will). I laid out my case against Solstice already. He'd be my preferred lynch today. Vivax and Oats are calling for Rayn's head, and at this point there is a possibility that Rayn is lynched. I think it would be odd for JJ to not go in here. More, he called Rayn scum earlier, so the groundwork was already laid for him to get on the Rayn wagon. Instead, he recognizes some pretty townie posting by Rayn, and backs off, despite it possibly meaning his own head. There have been flashes of real clairvoyant and solid analysis like this: On July 02 2013 03:06 JarJarDrinks wrote: OK so here he's trying to sow seeds of doubt in the mass roleclaim plan even though it's been pretty much agreed on that it's an incredibly powerfull play. Like why mention those things and then vote yes? So then why vote yes? Vayne voted against it for this same reason. The only reason to vote yes is because he's scared to post anything that would apear to be anti-town. He's knows the mass roleclaim is detrimental to scum. He'd trying to use 2 seperate excuses as to why we shouldn't do it and hoping that one of em sticks. The problem is those excuses directly clash with each other. Either it's a huge boon to scum or it's broken and cheap. How can it be both? The scummiest looking thing about him imo is his actions around the day 1 lynch, and it's so on the nose scummy looking that I'm left getting townie vibes off it, as weird as that sounds. What kind of scum drops an explanationless (and I mean totally explanationless) vote on a counter wagon to a now confirmed scum? It's so suicidally stupid and careless; I think it's unlikely that a scum JJ does this. Also he is currently not playing to his scum meta. You can refer back to that case I wrote on him, the games are in there. I wouldn't call him tunnely this game. What do you guys think of this stuff? I propose we lynch Stutters today. I want to return to this chain of posts: On July 01 2013 02:46 Stutters695 wrote: This is why I thought he was town. The miller stuff is eh (a lot more damming now with Vivax's post however). Like it isn't an unreasonable assumption and his reaction to my "scummiest post in the thread" was almost exactly how I'd react. I'd expect scum to be much more concerned with justifying their stance immediately rather than just laugh it off and not elaborate until pressure is on them. I reacted almost identically to an accusation from vivax in roulette that I felt was ridiculous. In addition to that, he's one of the most active players. I can pull specifics if you want but that's the rundown. On July 01 2013 03:47 Stutters695 wrote: You're misunderstanding. I'm leaning scum on him now, that was explaining why I thought he was town when I woke up this morning and did a quick skim. Although I do think accepting a miller claim isn't unreasonable. It essentially is just having someone say "hey, don't check me because you'll waste your power (pre-parity announcement) and cause a mislynch." It doesn't in any way confirm Marv, but ensures he is judged on the basis of his actual play. That he's so sure Marv is town is worrisome but I can see where he is coming from to a certain extent. I also don't like how many people are slipping by saying absolutely nothing. Even if we lynch him we should hear his reads and force these hardcore lurkers to post something. On July 01 2013 03:50 Stutters695 wrote: I guess part of it is how easy this has been that's concerning me. Scum could be sitting idly by arguing between us but when everyone active is on Rayn we'll get nothing going forward, we should at least look into a couple other people. This waffle is larger than anything that Belgium has ever produced. A scum read on Rayn that appears to come largely from Vivax' analysis. Except, the case by Vivax dealt almost exclusively with the unreasonableness of Rayn's reaction to Marv's miller claim. He then goes on to support the reasonableness of Rayn's reaction (which obliterates the basis for his scum read) as well as express nervousness about how easy the pressure on Rayn has mounted. So we are left with....a scum read with ZERO basis. This looks extremely contrived. I have to be perfectly honest...Stutters entered my blind zone when his pursuit of fuba started because the effort looked genuine and was far and above what I would typically expect from him. I'm thinking that was a mistake. I shouldn't have let these posts go. With the benefit of a scum flip, Stutters exchanges with fuba take on a different light. It's easy to look engaged and confident when you KNOW you are attacking scum. Also, here's Stutter's day 2: On July 04 2013 01:55 Stutters695 wrote: Well I want to believe WoS because I still think Fuba is scum. I just don't understand fake claiming there. Why would scum be out to get him on d2 when all he has to do is talk his way out of a lynch today/defend fuba and mislynch into a n2 win by not blocking? What incentive does scum have to kill him here? On July 04 2013 02:01 Stutters695 wrote: I'm aware. I'm pretty damn confident in my scumread on Fuba. I guess 3p would explain his weird behavior, but he's been so fucking scummy. Usually I'd associate someone with 3p if they're more on the townish-null side. They both can't be scum because this would be the most retarded bus in the history of mafia. I want to believe WoS, but here's a reason why we shouldn't believe WoS. Fuba is totes the scum, but 3p I guess could explain it? This is the sum total of him 'figuring out' this situation. The thought process doesn't seem to equal the conclusion....maybe because he already knows the answer. I'm out of time for tonight. I have to drive home in the morning tomorrow, but I'll get back in time for the deadline (early as I can). When I come back I want to see thoughts on this. We need to get this lynch right. | ||
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On July 07 2013 13:50 JarJarDrinks wrote: I don't really have any expectation that I'm gonna be able to save myself. I'll be happy if I do, but I'm just trying to give my opinions. And I think you don't expect that I'll be able to save myself either. Which is why you need 3 suspects because you're gonna still need 2 goats once I flip. Earlier comment from me aside, if you are town don't check out. I expect you to try until the end to show it. You already sound defeated here. | ||
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Wos seems most likely for scum 2, but I won't have time to look mote closely until tonight. I feel good about stutters. I'm gonna vote during this little break from driving as it looks like I forgot to last night | ||
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I hate the 'this person is scum b/c process of elimination' phase of the game | ||
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On July 09 2013 03:36 Vivax wrote: 4 pages of filter. Your effort is amazing. Oh yeah right you're busy, so am I every time I play scum. You have no idea what you are talking about, and haven't for quite a long time this game. | ||
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Time is running short. Get that vote on to vivax if you'd like to win <3 we'll cuddle later | ||
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I don't mean to be threatening. This is a nervewracking situation. Thing is, we both win today, scum plus 3p if you vote vivax right now. | ||
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There's no hard feeling, I just want to win. Offer for cuddles still stands. | ||
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Stutters really only got real attention from his teammates lol. | ||
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Our mistake is that we didn't have fuba say he rbed you. That would have helped. | ||
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Everything else results in his lynch sooner or later. | ||
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We needed to kill lazer though. With no rb he was free to check. | ||
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Checked jar jar...just about as bad | ||
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On July 09 2013 10:57 Oatsmaster wrote: It wouldve been 3-2 and I know gumshoe and Vivax are town. We win the game. They didn't know you were town though  | ||
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a townie does not forget a player is in the game at that point if he is really wracking his brain to find the scum team. | ||
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On July 09 2013 23:35 marvellosity wrote: WoS played just fine and deserved to win. So did you Lazer. So did Oats until he disappeared. gumshoe was great on day 2, and it was my own fault/lack of confidence that meant I never pushed s0l properly day 3 even though I was surer of him. I knew something wrong when s0lstice pseudo-defended JarJar on that day, that was never what a scum does to another scum under huge pressure... that was a huge mistake from me to pick it up and then not process the obvious implications. Vivax went for a game-long throw, Stutters managed to mimic his townplay pretty well. Do you think I'd have been better off joining the jar jar wagon? I thought for sure if I did that town would get off jar jar as we would then pretty much all be agreeing on him. | ||
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I think town me would have defended Vayne as well on day 1. I still think the scummiest thing I did was totally forget to mention Oats in this post: On July 07 2013 13:23 s0Lstice wrote: What's good about this is I'm in the unique position of not having to consider my own alignment when looking for the last two scum. I feel pretty darn good about Marv being town. Vivax and gumshoe look really town too. The only way Vivax is scum is if the missing NK was intentional, and I think that's horribly unlikely. Gumshoe did all the heavy lifting in the WoS vs. fuba lynch. If either of them are scum, then gg you earned the win. This leaves Stutters, JJD, and WoS. This is where I'm looking. There is no way I forget a player here as town. Other than that, I just started to run out of room because other people were town telling hardcore. I don't really think I did anything objectively scummy (other than the above quote), I just looked less assuredly town than a lot of people. Maybe this is the definition of being scummy though | ||
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On July 11 2013 10:42 gonzaw wrote: Yeah now that you finally rolled scum I'll use it as an excuse to lynch you every game What's up with the edits and heated shit? Did I miss something (other than the whole game)? On July 10 2013 08:08 Foolishness wrote: Take it to PMs please. I don't want to see anything more about this case unless it's directly to me or GM. lol gonzaw ;D | ||
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