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On July 11 2013 01:10 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dont have dandel as a townread, where the fuck do you get that?
Austin, maybe scum aint got a nuke so your advice doesnt affect your team.
Can you explain how Im scum if I think you are scum? OMGUS much?
On July 11 2013 01:00 Oatsmaster wrote:
D1 you lynched town, it looks like you want to lynch another townread of mine again.
I want to lynch DI --> xigxag. Assumed this was referring to him.
If scum doesn't have nukes, THEN WHY DOES MZ HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO SHUT DOWN NUKE FACTORIES? You think that MZ, as town, can shut down nuke factories, but only town has the ability to produce nukes? The fact that a town role does that means anti-town forces have that. Scum not having nukes in this game would be like nobody having alignments in a DT game, or there being no KP in a game with medics. The role wouldn't exist in a regular game unless it could be used in a way that benefits town. Again, you're not reading the game closely enough.
I don't care if you think i'm scummy. I think that if I'm your TOP scumread, you're either really not paying attention or you're scum. It's not pure OMGUS, it's more...you are asking people for a lot of reads, and giving out very very little content that you yourself generate, whole cloth. You pop me out as your top scumread just because you like rayn's reads, which you never actually discuss before magically arriving at me as top scumread. You don't seem to care that there is a legitimate argument that rayn's reads were constructed in a wonky manner, made by multiple people.
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On July 11 2013 01:19 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dunno dude, there have been millers with no cops.
Speculation is bad.
What is the legitimate argument that rayns reads are bad?
The thread. You should read it. It is good to read.
However, I will be nice and help you out:
On July 10 2013 04:02 austinmcc wrote:
I think that if this was actually your plan then...I dunno, respect. It's delightfully ridiculous. But mafia, as noted above, really likes killing townies. And townies really like lynching liars/people who make no sense. Therefore mafia really likes it when townies lie, because that means they can get mislynches. A mafia team that doesn't love making townies really want to lynch townies is...not a winning mafia team.
So no, I didn't chime in with how this didn't make any sense, wondering why you'd want chez nuked and nuke MZ. Other people did. I didn't chime in with why would you lie, because other people did. I didn't chime in with why claim the nuke if you're lying mafia, therefore, aren't you some kind of lying town, because other people did.
Moreover, I actually find suspicious the people that came out of the woodwork JUST to talk about you and the nuke. Ace has been more or less townie to me, but spending pages and pages arguing with people for little reason actually gives me the impression that he's happy to post and muck up the thread. Jampidampi looks odd for me because he gets involved in very, very little on D1, and now half of his filter is posts about you and your claim. Your claim is easy pickings for mafia to get active, to fill filter either accusing someone of being mafia for lying (ezpz townie thing to do) or fill filter about why your lying doesn't make sense (ezpz thing to do).
Right? It's an easy topic of discussion that isn't really scumhunting, isn't really moving things forward. You just give your thoughts, recycle them, argue about them, but the whole thing is meaningless and it's just a great opportunity to LOOK active.
Besides the whole lie as town to get somewhere thing, which I think should be used very, very sparingly if at all, I think your conclusions are ... wrong. I disagree that mafia gets confused by this. I think it presents a strong opportunity for scum to get active in the thread.
On July 10 2013 04:13 austinmcc wrote:
What I care about is the conclusions you draw. You think that mafia should be confused/afraid of your claim, when I believe that mafia would love the opportunity to jump on someone who has lied in thread, call them out, call for their lynch. You think that mafia would avoid discussing your claim, when I think that it's fertile grounds for mafia to get active about something.
"Why did rayn lie/is rayn lying/is rayn scum/what is going on" is just another topic to talk about that isn't QUITE scumhunting. It's slightly closer to scumhunting than setup talk, balance talk, and that jazz, but it's still fluff discussion that doesn't really get towards finding a scumteam. You had some motivation to do what you did, you had some post you were waiting to reveal, until that point it's all kind of useless chatter that just serves to make people APPEAR useful.
Again, the reaction that I would find scummy is not the people who do nothing with your claim, but people who fill their filter with nothing except talk about your claim (jampidampi) or people who jump on you as scummy despite doing little other scumhunting (haven't gone back to look at this) or ... Ace, because he knows better and generally stays out of threads.
On July 10 2013 05:19 Xatalos wrote:
The one worrying thing about him is his excessive focus on your claim. It would indeed be an easy topic for scum to appear active and contributive (without actually scumhunting). Probably worth it to keep an eye on him, but definitely not to lynch him (at least at this point).
On July 10 2013 05:40 Xatalos wrote:
I'd put jampidampi as null rather than townish atm. His only actually noticeable contribution to the thread so far has been that analysis of rayn's claim, which is fine, but as his ONLY real contribution... not so much. Scum could do that just as easily as town. In fact, scum might prefer to do something like that instead of scumhunting.
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On July 11 2013 01:57 Ace wrote:
Oats gettin served.
austin what do you think about the voting wagon for ON? you started it but a lot of people piled on into an innocent flip. You think anyone on the wagon is scum that just hopped on to your case?
It picked up quickly, I think with some legitimate votes just because there wasn't really anything pulling votes together at that time.
I would imagine that there's scum on it, but don't know for sure. DI doing nothing and apparently being very bus-happy as scum kind of complicates this one, because if he's scum it's quite possible a lot of scum stayed on him D1 and didn't even need to switch: either they lynch DI, scum, and look decent, or the lynch is on ON, a townie, and they're not involved and look alright.
Need to go back and see whose vote just absolutely didn't move from DI, those people worth looking at if he flips scum.
Need to go back and see who was swapping around for...middling reasons. I dunno about you, but I normally am fine with people who 100% swap votes for no real reason or pure sheep, and slightly more suspicious of people who try to justify the switch, but have weak/odd justifications.
Haven't yet looked into it tbh, but it's on the agenda.
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On July 11 2013 02:49 johnnywup wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 02:44 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 11 2013 02:38 johnnywup wrote:
That nuke almost certainly came from a townie. Makes no sense from scum POV to launch it (assuming ace is town). Makes a lot more sense if it's coming from a townie. So I don't know why no one's claimed Why would a townie outright shoot Ace? I don't know. But it doesn't make any sense from scum POV, because a strong case is being formed against Ace and it looks like him getting lynched is a possibility. So case 1: He's scum. Scum wouldn't shoot him, obviously, so only possibility is town shooting him. Case 2: He's town. Scum wouldn't shoot him because it looks like he might actually get lynched. So only possibility is town shooting him. What do you feel are some of the most damning things about Ace's play? Like...gimme 3 or so, even if you just refer to another post on him.
As of now, I disagree with saying ace might get lynched, at least today. It's possible he could end up lynched on D3 or D4, but if I were scum opposite him, I don't really want to wait on possible lynches days down the road. Maybe he's particularly scummy, which I'm also not crazy feeling, but I dunno that an Ace lynch is gonna hit critical mass today with DI aroundish.
(Moreover, CRAAAAAAAAAAZY speculation time - it's entirely possible there's a 3P with nukes/random nukes/fake nukes/whatever)
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Sorry, my post presumes you find Ace scummy because you say a strong case is being formed against him. If you don't find him scummy, np.
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Yeah but I want to see how people's thoughts are moving and why.
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Xatalos, what are your thoughts on the exchange between Oats and I, specifically the Oats end of things?
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On July 11 2013 07:03 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 04:38 austinmcc wrote:
Xatalos, what are your thoughts on the exchange between Oats and I, specifically the Oats end of things? Hmm. I have a hard time accepting that Oatsmaster would be scum (saved me unnecessarily D1) and you town (with you doing nothing D1, then launching the lynch on ON and immediately starting to back off from it, then almost completely ignoring rayn's fakeclaim... yeah, the list goes on). With that said, that exchange looked like you were figuring out stuff while Oatsmaster was just... being pretty defensive and posting one-liners (and his stance on DI felt a bit confusing). If I had to look at just that single exchange, without looking at anything else, I'd say that you were town and Oatsmaster scum. Maybe town&town, that's possible. Probably not scum&scum though, unless it was some carefully crafted strategy to put distance between two scum (unlikely). But with THAT said, I don't have to look at just that single exchange, and maybe Oatsmaster had a bad day and you were putting in a lot of effort to look town. I find it especially hard to believe that scum Oatsmaster would use his anti-nuke to save me D1. I will mostly agree with this if I didn't have my role PM. Some thoughts:- Read Oats's filter and take out the defense. He's got pages, way more than I remembered, yet most of it is one-off comments on something that happened or asking someone for their reads. The filter reads like involvement w/o any sort of pushing the game forward himself
- His defense on you is pretty much the towniest thing in there. However, unless he just did it for fun, it had to be activated in thread. scumOats would have a hard time using that on a scumbuddy because - (1) if the scumbuddy is being nuked because of consensus scumread, Oats can't really go YOLO SAVE THAT DUDE and (2) if he or his defense target ever flip scum, the other guy is heavily implicated. IMO, he doesn't give up much by defending a townie, he stops one KP but gives himself carte blanche for a bit.
- Sweet Jesus maybe he's just having a bad day, but he can admit that. You find me scummy for some of my play, but I don't think I'm your tip-top scumread. Oats walks in and I'm his #1 scumread, he doesn't seem to have read thread, and he doesn't seem to BE reading thread as we talk (MZ can shut down nuke factories, therefore scum probably have nuke factories; he doesn't seem to remember why I was scummy on FirmTofu at one point, even though he AGREED with my read at that point)
Another way to look at it is...you're mafia and you have a one-shot save from a nuke, but you have to post in thread to activate it. Do you use it on a buddy or on town?
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The one think I hate about my scumreads right now is some are almost certainly wrong. If I think jampidampi, oats, VA, and DI are all scummy (FirmTofu off the list for now, chalking those posts up as just being weird)...then I have two problems:
(1) Assuming somewhat normal balance, I'd expect a more veteran-y player in the mix. Game with MZ, Ace, snb, Chez, ghost, all around a good while and MZ/Ace/Chez for a very long while, yet none of them on the scumteam?
(2) I end up just looking at people that are somewhat active. So many hard lurkers that we probably have scum in the group and just don't know where.
Perhaps larger scumteam, some of those reads surely off, and there's the possibility of 3P(s). This lynch is gonna suck if DI is actually 3P and not scum, could be one reason everyone willing to jump on him - he's not playing town game but mafia not even caring about bussing, they just know he's not with them.
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On July 11 2013 07:28 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:25 austinmcc wrote:
The one think I hate about my scumreads right now is some are almost certainly wrong. If I think jampidampi, oats, VA, and DI are all scummy (FirmTofu off the list for now, chalking those posts up as just being weird)...then I have two problems:
(1) Assuming somewhat normal balance, I'd expect a more veteran-y player in the mix. Game with MZ, Ace, snb, Chez, ghost, all around a good while and MZ/Ace/Chez for a very long while, yet none of them on the scumteam?
(2) I end up just looking at people that are somewhat active. So many hard lurkers that we probably have scum in the group and just don't know where.
Perhaps larger scumteam, some of those reads surely off, and there's the possibility of 3P(s). This lynch is gonna suck if DI is actually 3P and not scum, could be one reason everyone willing to jump on him - he's not playing town game but mafia not even caring about bussing, they just know he's not with them. But then why did everyone jump off of him? A few mafia could've stayed on Dandel to build street cred if and when OriginalName flipped town. Unless I'm mistaken, virtually everyone switched to ON. ON was lynched with 11 votes, DI had 8. Within the last 20 minutes, at least 3 voters (too lazy to click back a page) hopped on ON, and only one of them hopped off DI.
So at 20 to deadline, it was 9-8 for DI, and then at deadline only 11-8 for ON. Still a heavy vote on him. Some votes didn't move due to people not being around it looks like, but only 2 people ever budged off DI. And one of em ended up on VA, not on either real target.
On July 09 2013 07:00 s0Lstice wrote:
TARGET LOCKED IN. FINAL COUNT.
geript (0): raynpelikoneet, Dandel Ion
johnnywup (0): VayneAuthority, Xatalos, WaveofShadow, TanGeng, Abenson, OriginalName
Chezinu (2): raynepelikoneet, Onegu, Ace, TanGeng, Abenson, Xatalos,
raynpelikoneet, jampidampi, gumshoe
WaveofShadow (0): geript, johnnywup
Onegu (1): Nirvana.Gabo, MajuGarzett
austinmcc (0): Xatalos
raynepelikoneet (0): Alakaslam
Z-BosoN (0): Chezinu
Dandel Ion (8): johnnywup, WaveofShadow, OriginalName, Ace, VayneAuthority,
strongandbig, Meapak_Ziphh, Alakaslam, Stutters695, Nirvana.Gabo
Nirvana.Gabo (1): Oatsmaster, raynpelikoneet, jampidampi
ghost_403 (0): Alakaslam, Chezinu
VayneAuthority (2): FirmTofu, Alakaslam, Alakaslam, FirmTofu, Chezinu
CaucasianAsian (1): geript, Z-BosoN
Oatsmaster (0): Chezinu
jampidampi (0): Chezinu
OriginalName (11): austinmcc, Chezinu, raynpelikoneet, Dandel Ion, Xatalos, FirmTofu,
Alakaslam, geript, ghost_403, Chezinu, geript, TanGeng, gumshoe, johnnywup, Onegu
Alakaslam (0): geript
TARGET: OriginalName has been obliterated!
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Ugh. That looks so weird. Only 2 people ever moving off of DI, so the rush of votes onto ON came almost entirely from non-DI-voters.
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Xat, I agree that saving it is a perfectly good play. But you need there to be a lategame nuke and probably on your buddy and not yourself? Dunno if he can defend himself.
With the rest of his filter and his posts earlier in this day phase though, I just don't buy him as town.
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You talking to Xatalos with those? I think you're probably town, Ace, but I'm even more certain he's town, and it seems really unlikely at this point that he'd be scum.
Do you think he's just wrong in his read or was scummily trying to push you?
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On July 11 2013 08:40 Ace wrote:me of course  and then Xalatos, DI/Xig/, Onegu for now. Special moments: The ON lynch, rayne's fake claim, and the early nukes Day 1. Maaaaan, how come your reads aren't my read. I don't like xatalos for mafia, and I don't really think Onegu is scum, based on the roles that make sense for him to be kind of sort of dancing around having.
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On July 11 2013 09:41 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 09:30 austinmcc wrote:On July 11 2013 08:40 Ace wrote:me of course and then Xalatos, DI/Xig/, Onegu for now. Special moments: The ON lynch, rayne's fake claim, and the early nukes Day 1. Maaaaan, how come your reads aren't my read. I don't like xatalos for mafia, and I don't really think Onegu is scum, based on the roles that make sense for him to be kind of sort of dancing around having. Why don't you like an Onegu lynch? Cuz his filter makes me think he's a particular thing. And that thing seems far more likely to be town. Maybe he's being super duper clever, but I only see a couple options for what he's dancing around.
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Moreover, some of his posts read just...very open and honest to me. I don't see them coming from mafia.
For one, he really...stays on target. D1 he talks about JW some, Chez a good bit, xatalos a small amount, and Alakaslam. He follows Alakaslam throughout the game so far, interacting with him. At no point does he like...hop off to talk about DI, about ON, other stuff. From what he said he and Alakaslam have played before, so it appears to me that he's focused on trying to figure out what he knows/has seen before - Alakaslam's alignment.
I don't see scum being so limited in scope, or following the same couple trains of thought throughout the thread. Too many opportunities to jump over, talk about DI, talk about ON, talk about VA/FirmTofu/me/Oats/anyone else who's been under any suspicion.
So his role, the way his posts read and his interest in things reads, and this. This is not a mafia post, no way no how.
On July 08 2013 03:43 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2013 03:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
I think the biggest topics of the day have been Chezinu, me, Xalatos, Johnnywups....anyone else?
Maybe Geript and Rayn as well? Me too
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Where "jump over, talk about" for a lot of those names = call them scum/agree with cases on them/whatever. He's involved in a small amount of stuff, entirely uninvolved in others, and that actually reads very townie to me, because he's passing up latching onto calling a lot of people scummy for perfectly legitimate reasons.
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On July 11 2013 09:54 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 09:30 austinmcc wrote:On July 11 2013 08:40 Ace wrote:me of course and then Xalatos, DI/Xig/, Onegu for now. Special moments: The ON lynch, rayne's fake claim, and the early nukes Day 1. Maaaaan, how come your reads aren't my read. I don't like xatalos for mafia, and I don't really think Onegu is scum, based on the roles that make sense for him to be kind of sort of dancing around having. Well I want Stutters to chime in on this too. I'm not calling Onegu scum, he was one of the guys I pointed out on the wagon earlier and I went through his filter. Lets see what Stutters comes up with. also he is a notorious lurker. better give him as much stuff to contribute while he is around. If a townie nuked you I hope they read this post and feel bad.
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Maaaaan. I was just in the shower and wanted to force you to type that out and see if it worked.
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afk gonna keep showering for 16 hours or so and see if I get good ideas
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EPT
