Maybe this game I wont be only scum left after day one :-)
Newbie Mini Mafia XLIII
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Onegu
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Maybe this game I wont be only scum left after day one :-) | ||
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On June 19 2013 02:00 StiMaDDict wrote: /in will try less tunneling this time.. Hey sometimes you just gotta go with it, just dont let it get to you so much. Hopeing we get some of the rest from the last game come forward they werent really noobs but it was fun and I think made me learn more than if just uber noobs like me. Waiting for UMASI to join BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! | ||
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On June 19 2013 03:19 Umasi wrote: BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAwaitidontgetit /obs Just a joke about tunneling you. Not have time to play? Hope you can play | ||
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On June 19 2013 03:48 Umasi wrote: oh alright, haha :3 I do have time to play, and I might if it doesn't fill up, but I got really annoyed during the last game. Even though we won, it wasn't that fun? And I spent a lot of my time just dumping my thoughts compared to organizing them, because I really had no idea what they were trying to say :3 Didn't get mislynched, which made me happy, I thought it was pretty much certain t.t So yeah if this goes a while without filling I'll probably hop in. Ok dont let it get to you, you played well ,sorry about tunneling you if I made it not fun for you that was just part of my strat to stay alive... | ||
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Just dont want to wait a month for this gameto start like the last one :-( | ||
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On June 21 2013 13:34 Alakaslam wrote: Just noting that if GreyMist allows I will be playing two mafias. This one and Aperture Mafia2: Portal Edition. Looking forward to both! I'm really versed with using my phone, so I have a bit of an edge.... I can keep up on Mafia anywhere there is 3G. you have to / in and the other game you are talking about most likly wont start until after this one is finished. | ||
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Also I sent a PM to some guy who was trying to join a normal game and asking if it was ok for noobs. Sk8rguy227 or something like that | ||
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On June 22 2013 14:39 Xzavier wrote: Or... its WIFOM... GG WP | ||
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On June 21 2013 03:20 Spicydinosaur wrote: /obs played my max newbie games but they are still fun to watch I think you can play one more since it is 3 or fewer, meaning if this is your 4th game that is still ok. I have sent some PM's out also, hope we can get this started asap. | ||
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On June 24 2013 11:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Ugh, let's avoid the 'should we lynch lurkers talk' shall we? I'm gonna go ahead and post the play I had written earlier this week analyzing this game from a pro-town perspective. If any of my analysis is off-base, please jump in and steer me back on track. Pre-written segment starts now: Alright, chums. First let me state that in NO WAY is the following message a call for a mass claim. If you are the Parity Cop (assuming you even exist), DO NOT SAY SO. In fact, if you're our town's parity cop, it's probably better if you appear to ignore what I'm about to say completely. Same goes for Trackers and Watchers. DO NOT CLAIM. But read carefully, because you are a big part of whether we succeed or fail (whether we follow my plan or not). Now everyone, pay attention: Looking over the roles, the extremely juicy pro-town potential jumped right off the page at me, as I hope it did to many of you. Trackers can tell us if a person visits someone. Pretty good, but not nearly as good as the Watcher, who can pick a person and sees all who visit them. Obviously, this means we can try to guess the guy who's going to be mafia-killed, and we have a couple shots at seeing if he either gets visited, or manage to Track the mafia member who happens to be tagged to do the deed. Not great odds on either, but still better than nothing. My plan utilizes each role to their maximum potential. Because we are not guaranteed to have a Tracker, Watcher, or even a Parity Cop, it's important that for the roles we DO get, we use them efficiently. The Watcher needs to guess the target they think will be mafia-killed tonight. This is up to your judgement, but I'll make a recommendation later today. The fun part comes with the Tracker and the Nosy Neighbor (and by extension Parity Cop). The Tracker should secretly track the Nosy Neighbor. AGAIN, MR. OR MRS. TRACKER: DO NOT CLAIM NOW. If we have a Nosy Neighbor, they should claim IMMEDIATELY. Once the Tracker can confirm that the Nosy Neighbor is in fact moving around at night, but not visiting the person who got Mafia-killed, WE CAN ESTABLISH HIM AS TOWN. This is a big deal. The Parity Cop can then tag the confirmed Nosy Neighbor as Town and start measuring up suspects against them. If he gets a 'Different' claim, the other person is Scum. If he gets 'Same', they are town. I can elaborate further, but I feel like you can all piece together whatever holes are out there without me holding your hand even further. This is an extremely pro-town set-up (assuming there aren't a bunch of red herrings in which case, Hi I'm sponge, and I just gave you all the book on me.) and I'd like to move fast before mafia can organize their thoughts in their private little forum. If we move fast, and force independent action, they lose one of their many advantages. Haveing a early day one post about reveals is very bad, no matter how good or bad someones role is. You have to remember scum have a tracker also so if they track the NN to someone they get a stronger read he is blue than just NN, if it is revealed then scum tracker doesnt have to worry about that possibility and just blue hunt. Second it isnt a big deal to confirm someone as town, it is a big deal to confirm someone as scum. You idea has alot of holes and the logic behind it is terribad. As such you are noob town to me. | ||
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On June 24 2013 13:00 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Wait, hold on. Is it confirmed that there is a scum-side Tracker? I would not have proposed such a plan if this game was guaranteed to have Mafia spawn with a Tracker. I know that it was POSSIBLE for them to have a tracker. But I was unaware that it was so likely as to be a certainty. Also, in this game it IS a big deal to confirm someone as town since we may have a Parity Cop. Regardless, my idea is a non-starter and doesn't need to be discussed as an actual plan of action further. (It can obviously still be discussed by people wanting to make cases for and against me.) Perhaps I'm some brilliant mastermind who just wanted to draw out the players who could see the flaw in this plan. (Spoiler: I'm not.) I'm still not 100% convinced that the idea is without merit, but this is likely user error on my part. It is possible they dont have one but in the last few games they have given scum 2 blue abilitys and since there are only a few possible roles this time it is 50/50 they have one | ||
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On June 24 2013 13:00 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Wait, hold on. Is it confirmed that there is a scum-side Tracker? I would not have proposed such a plan if this game was guaranteed to have Mafia spawn with a Tracker. I know that it was POSSIBLE for them to have a tracker. But I was unaware that it was so likely as to be a certainty. Also, in this game it IS a big deal to confirm someone as town since we may have a Parity Cop. Regardless, my idea is a non-starter and doesn't need to be discussed as an actual plan of action further. (It can obviously still be discussed by people wanting to make cases for and against me.) Perhaps I'm some brilliant mastermind who just wanted to draw out the players who could see the flaw in this plan. (Spoiler: I'm not.) I'm still not 100% convinced that the idea is without merit, but this is likely user error on my part. Scum may have a framer also so confirming 1 town isnt that big of a deal. You should really focus your time on scum moresothan town | ||
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There are only 3 blue roles for scum so it is 66% they have one. | ||
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On June 24 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote: You wound me. Regarding claims I'm of the opinion that the Nosy Neighbour/Alpha 5 should claim now. This role is similar to a Miller in that it isn't useful for town at all, and could seriously backfire if they are watched/tracked/whatever by a townie. I don't see any downside to a Nosy Neighbour claiming, the worst case is that they play obvtown, get shot, and draw a shot away from actual town power roles. The biggest reason a Nosy Neighbour should claim now is that it eliminates the possibility of a scum fake-claiming it later if he is caught shooting/using a PR on someone. If we establish that a Nosy Neighbour should claim now, anyone claiming it later is caught scum. Obviously, scum can claim Nosy Neighbour so whoever claims it isn't confirmed town by any means. No other power roles should claim, that would be daft. (However, scum should feel free to claim their roles.) Regarding scum Current scumread is Chromatically for two reasons. 1) I don't like the feel of his initial posts. Making troll-cases to get the game rolling is fine, I have no objection to that in as of itself, but there's a certain nit-picking quality to his posts that feels wrong to me. Trying to read something into someone not posting for five minutes is ludicrous. 2) He's been doing a lot of asking other people for their reads while offering nothing even approaching one of his own. ##Vote: Chromatically As I have said before he provides a buffer to protect other blues, if there is a tracker for scum and it is likely and they know who nn is they can look to find other blue roles. Who cares if scum claim NN later we kill them anyway. If something wierd happens and the only explanation someone can give is I am NN we lynch them. All NN reveal does now is take away what little protection blues have. | ||
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On June 24 2013 13:41 Xzavier wrote: and a noisy neighbor claim means jackshit to me lol. Imo. nobody claim. just scumhunt. Exactly | ||
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[QUOTE]On June 24 2013 13:27 FirmTofu wrote: [QUOTE]On June 24 2013 12:30 FirmTofu wrote: Quoted Player List for reference: [QUOTE]On June 18 2013 14:22 geript wrote: The Players
[/QUOTE] Lurkers: fyfy, Aquanium, LoneMeow, StiMaDDict, Alakaslam (Sorry, I know you said you were eating, but for all intents and purposes, you haven't posted at all.) Let's keep a close watch on these guys before we start voting.[/QUOTE] No no this is fair, I will read up real quick and post something worthwhile. [url=http://imgur.com/jcBflCz][img]http://i.imgur.com/Axm9kMg.jpg[/img][/url] There we are for the meantime. I was the last one to leave the table. I am thinking of how I can establish my innocence. Everyone should be doing this. The more town we confirm, the better off we are finding/accurately reading scum. I also think that I've messed that up, since I actually would like FirmTofu's case against me. I kind of went all Blazinghand, and I'm just not him. + Show Spoiler + Nor am I Kenpachi. But I admire these two, and have only read I swear this is normal mini mafia and Aperture Mafia. So I was being all aloof and whatnot- Mi ne freggo, you know. Note though, both of those games they were Town most of the time. So for establishing MY innocence: I haven't been the best town so far, I posted mostly defensive fluff, and the above in the spoiler. HOWEVER, as making the thread difficult to read is not the best thing for town, I put it in there. You are not obligated to read the contents of the spoiler! But feel free to. I haven't posted much, posting from the table is kind of rude just as is texting from the table. But I managed, and that was probably unwise. I plan to read the thread, and give a case for people IN SPOILERS with a TL;DR above each one so as to keep stuff organized. Remember, scum wants: Confusion, lack of info, and difficulty to read thread. So town: Keep it organized, I will be doing the same, and see you in a couple minutes. Let's go find some scum! [/QUOTE] How is this post in any way organized? This post is just more fluff also I dont know where you are going with any of your thoughts. | ||
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On June 24 2013 14:11 Alakaslam wrote: Doesn't town want to make lots of scum reads early and get people to defend themselves? Proving innocence is a great goal for us, and helps to narrow down the scum list so that no-lynch is less likely to happen. Then again, good point regarding spicy and whatnot. Hopefully, cases will flesh out and things will become clearer. Personally I don't have any reads yet, still reading thread. There will always be a lynch this game, so proveing guilt is always better in this game. | ||
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On June 24 2013 15:32 Alakaslam wrote: I know I sai I'd go but this came up. From the post for us newbs: "Please do not talk about any ongoing games either in-game or pre-game. This can affect other games and is unacceptable. Please do not refer to outside-of- thread activity of players in this thread." I have already messed up in this regard and I apologize. But note some folks have also talked about meta from previous newbie games and I don't think we are allowed to do that either. Will ask In green tomorrow when not trying to go to bed and when at computer. (iPhone) We are ok since the games we are talking about have finished already. | ||
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On June 24 2013 15:46 Alakaslam wrote: Sweet! Thanks again Onegu. I think I'll read those then- Tomorrow. Man this is worse than angry birds, I am thoroughly addicted. For now here is a list, so ALL of town can meta :D http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=412757 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=407058 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405359 Sorry that there is no meta on me, I'm that new. Note that some players may not only have played newbie games. Search their names! How late you want me up, midnight? I get up at 5 tomorrow! Also, check that you don't get into the above error first. Ok guys meta on peoples play you shold have played with that person at least 5 times, as this is impossible please stop trying to meta peoples play. It is ok to infer somethings on game setup, but people are still learning thier playstyle in a newbie game so you cannot base a scum read on meta play in noob games... | ||
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On June 24 2013 16:09 FirmTofu wrote: I know Aquanim wanted me to comment on Chromatically, but I would rather address his suggestion to have the NN roleclaim. Let's have a look at how a roleclaim would play out for scum and town separately so it is easier to visualize. Event: NN roleclaims Scum Information Set: Know who the NN is with a rather high degree of certainty Town Information Set: Could be an NN or could be scum faking NN. Learn absolutely nothing. Just based on the information that each side gains, we can see that scum takes a clear lead instantaneously. They will choose to avoid the NN if they have a Tracker and can proceed to eliminate one person from the long list of priority targets. Town remains confused as to the NN's alignment and ends up in a shitty situation. If you can find a way to resolve this issue, Aquanim, I would love to hear it. Otherwise, I have you pegged as scum. I agree with this the first person who wrote about NN made me feel noob town, but the second person to post after hearing what was said against it is very odd/scummy. | ||
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On June 24 2013 16:43 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Is this allowed? Would a Parity Cop be able to select himself as one of the two people for his investigation? You are the nerd of the bunch and pretend to mess around with beakers, flasks and strange colored liquids. In actuality, you were barely accepted into Angel Grove Community College. You're real power has always been knowing when you need to run away or not. Once per night you may submit the name of two other players; the following day, you will learn whether these two players have the same or different alignment. Read the OP people | ||
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On June 24 2013 16:48 FirmTofu wrote: Your condescending tone is strangely alluring. You are right that an NN claim is unlikely to be mafia, just because it is a quite a risky gambit. I knew that, but omitted it from my previous statement to strengthen my argument. I will agree to disagree about whether the fact that the gain in information to scum is significant, but overall, you make a solid case for an NN claim. I concede on the grounds that I am unfamiliar with how this sort of role interacts with others, and your argument seems sound. As for Chromatically... Your case is extremely weak. Addressing your point 1), you are going off a bad feeling. Feelings don't cut it for me. I need evidence to make a move. Addressing point 2), it seems quite town to me because it's forcing lurkers to talk. Talking is good for town, so I see this move as something a townie would do. There are a few other things that make me think Chromatically is town. He was the first person to point out the foolish aspects of Hurricane's poorly thought-out claim. What incentive would mafia have to steer town in the right direction? #2 is ok for day 1 somewhat but it is a good way for scum to make it look like being active but not doing anything, if he is scum and knows who the town are asking town what thier thoughts on other town are, is a good way to keep people looking at actual town, not scum because they want to respond to the question. | ||
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Wow that was confuse how I wrote it. Bad to just ask questions without makeing your own points because if you are scum you can just make town answer questions about how they feel about other townies. | ||
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On June 24 2013 16:53 FirmTofu wrote: As I am about to go to bed, I would like to go ahead and ##Vote: fyfy because he is the only person who hasn't spoken yet. Keep your eye on Stim and Meow as well because they are lurking, especially Stim. It is better to vote for lurkers who have posted one time and stopped then to vote for someone who hasnt posted anything because they will most likely get replaced or modkilled. | ||
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On June 24 2013 18:55 fyfy wrote: I don't know why I'm being voted day 1 when I haven't posted anything yet, I'm sure this kind of behaviour is exactly what the scum wants us to do. I'm sorry if there's no meta on me cause this is my first game and I would like to have my first game where I am not dead the first day. I can honestly assure everyone that I am town and killing me is a bad idea. EDIT: I know I sound scummy but I guess that's what you're all going to have :/ Dont worry about it. Read over what people write let us know what you think people are right or wrong about. You do this and contribute to town atmosphere and you wont be voted as scum most likely... | ||
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On June 24 2013 14:42 Alakaslam wrote: Ebwop (man I miss edit feature) @onegu- and his expletive messed up your post too didnt it? @hzflank: yet, so far I can only make town reads. + Show Spoiler + Except: this is not only a stretch but it's "hypocritical"; Ace, one of the more dangerous scum players on TL is coaching. What better way to create fluff than to do what FirmTofu did with bbcode? Not only is it kind of a deliberate mistake (he earased a [\QUOTE] or a part thereof, or added one at the top I think) but it makes anyone quoting him or a quoter te perfect spambot, as you can see! Really clever move if scum. Hard mistake to justify as town, but then, neither Onegu (who I think is town) nor I (who I know is town) hit preview first. Still, he is attacking people and whatnot, which is not really bad for town per say. TL;DR: FirmTofu explain what happened with your bbcode that messed up onegu and my posts. It's pissing me off, I pride myself on being able to manage bbcode from my iPhone, a stressful quad-post in my early days produced that. + Show Spoiler + Tank stacking thread. Anyone willing to run a search on Ace and see if he has done anything like that before? Crap, I can see the hole this makes. If we find that's scum play then MAN, we will have to be careful this game as it's really creative. OMGIS! I fell for a bbcode error?!?? Looking over Alakaslam's filter it is really bad. He posts fluff about dinner promiseing to make real posts after he is finished, but then all he posts is something about bbc code amd the scum coach not really looking into anything real. Why bring up the scum coach? | ||
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On June 25 2013 00:35 fyfy wrote: How long left do we have before night? Like 30 hours or so. It runs as a 48hour day and 24 hour night cycle. | ||
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On June 25 2013 01:39 Chromatically wrote: No one has any opinions on hz? Town at this point he doesnt have many posts but what he does post are scum hunts and his view on the NN idea, not much fluff amd not any sheeping. | ||
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On June 25 2013 02:27 Alakaslam wrote: Awesome point, work lull so SPICY AND ONEGU YOU ARE SCUMBUDDIES DEFENSE YOURSELFS + Show Spoiler + look at me everyone, LOOK at me and see that I am town! Press me, press me hard because 1. That's how I get better at town and 2. Because I am drawing suspicion as town which doesn't help town. And therefore, in the interests of town, if I am scum I am suiciding! THESE ARE MY TOWNREADS. DO AS THEY DO! Nonetheless, defend yourselves. You've both been attacked (especially you, spicy!). I have made a baseless claim of guilt on you two, nevertheless defend it. Why should I think what I do? Prove yourselves town, then lead it! LETS GO SEE YOU AFTER WORK Umm not sure where you are going with this... I dont understand half your posts, but if you give me reasons you think I am scum I will be happy to defend myself and adress you points. About Hz he doesnt post alot of fluff unless you want to count the NN posts, I also just filtered him when you asked and saw him make scum reads. Some of it maybe sheeping but I dont think scum would do that to much, at least he is creating scum reads with some thought behind them. I see newbie town who isnt confident in his reads. | ||
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I figured it out Alakaslam is Umasi's cocaine dealer!!! | ||
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On June 25 2013 03:49 Chromatically wrote: Really? Here's some fluff: + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 11:48 hzflank wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 11:47 Chromatically wrote: You don't buy his explanation? I am reading through the obs for that game now. I am very new to Mafia and used the recent Roulette game as my introduction to forum mafia, so I did not follow the previous newbie games. I will post again when I have spent more time reading that obs. On June 24 2013 11:49 hzflank wrote: Grr I need to preview before I post, messed that quote up. I am so used to being able to edit On June 24 2013 12:01 hzflank wrote: That would be a risky claim though, as if we do end up lynching town I would rather lynch NN than any other town member. This is also why I do not think that NN should claim though. On June 24 2013 11:43 hzflank wrote: I noticed that too. This is Spicy's first post in his previous game, where he was town: That is quite a lot more content than his first post in this thread: On June 24 2013 12:18 hzflank wrote: Fair enough. To be honest I am surprised that you got those negative comments for your first post in that thread, but then what do I know? I do not think that talk of sheeping (I had already started my post when he posted his) on day one is useful, but I do believe you as to why your first post was just the two words. On June 24 2013 12:24 hzflank wrote: Another reason why I do not think NN should claim is that the scum ideally want to kill good town roles and the last townie they want to kill is the NN. While the NN does not claim they may be targeted for a night kill, and I would much prefer NN to be night killed that for a tracker etc to be night killed. All of these posts are either repeating me or just plain useless. They make up over half of his posting. Do you still think that he's unconfident noob town after his conspiracy theory? Yes he isnt unconfident town, but still not going to put a scum read on him yet, he makes alot of connections and theories that just dont make any sense... But a few of the points on aqua are interesting. It is 2am here and my brain isn't working correctly so I will re read and post my conclusions in the morning. | ||
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On June 25 2013 05:56 FirmTofu wrote: I would like to switch gears into a more constructive discussion. My Case Against SpicyDinosaur Play-by-play: Spicy starts off with an innocuous "Hey everyone", but is met with an immediate (harmless) accusation by Chromatically. Here we can see him blowing it out of proportion. With this, we can deduce that he is probably a blue role, alignment unclear OR that he has a overly defensive personality. I have stated this sentiment earlier in the thread. Here we see Chromatically respond to Spicy's defensive post. Spicy downplays his actions as mere friendly banter and continues on his way. This is consistent with his previous post and is mostly harmless. After a few hours, Hurricane shows up and posts his "Case for Spicy" Honestly, this isn't much of a case. What is interesting however, is Spicy's disproportionate response to it. Scum Radar: BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP Holy bananas, did Spicy go full ad hominem today! Resorting to cheap personal attacks to discredit Hurricane's arguments(or lack thereof), further reinforces the fact that Spicy is extremely afraid of dying. A blue town member would try to dissect the argument and point out its flaws.Spicy makes no attempt to contribute to the discussion at all. After posting a bit further and defending himself from some of my accusations, he takes an 8 hour hiatus; I would assume he slept. He returns with his case against me. (Not going to quote it because it messes up my bbcode) As I have already refuted all his points, I will not do so again. The important point to note is that he seems to be fishing for scum in me where there is none. This makes it seem as though he wants to discredit me so that others will stop listening to what I have to say. Most of the issues he has with me are shared between various other people as well. It is truly odd that he chooses me as a target instead of the others. Am I dangerous to him in some way? If so, how? Another issue that may be useful later is his subtle defense of fyfy that worked wonders to nail me as an idiot for having voted him. Everyone fell for it, but for the time being, I have linked Spicy and fyfy as possible teammates. This is the nail in the coffin. Chromatically sums up succinctly why the town aspects of me outweigh the scum aspects, but Spicy deliberately highlights the scum aspects and emphasizes them to justify his reasoning. His silence on the town aspects of me indicates that he cannot refute those points, but he still refuses to take his vote off of me. Whether it be arrogance or a scum-tell, Spicy is definitely a suspicious individual that needs to be looked into. ##Vote: SpicyDinosaur Just want to put this out there, if you think spicy is scum fine, but please dont blue hunt, and if you do blue hunt dont post who you think is blue all that does is help scum not town. | ||
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On June 25 2013 02:53 hzflank wrote: I've been waiting for particular posts from Aquanim and Chromatically, which they have now made. That's a pretty flimsy case that Chrom has made against me. There is no reason to think that I would make a casual opening post when by the time I joined the game there were already five other casual opening posts. I think the game strategy stuff (regarding NN) was as good a discussion as any as it is actually important to the game. Up until this point I have in no way cared as to whether or not I look scummy, and since I got my scum read from Aquanim's first post it made sense for me to wait until there was a case made against someone before I posted this. It's about time that the scum try to get a wagon rolling and I am happy enough for that wagon to be on me, so I will even help scum Chromatically by ensuring that scum Aquanim also votes for me. Here is my take on the important parts of day 1 so far: Hurricane is the first to discuss the NN claiming. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 11:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Ugh, let's avoid the 'should we lynch lurkers talk' shall we? I'm gonna go ahead and post the play I had written earlier this week analyzing this game from a pro-town perspective. If any of my analysis is off-base, please jump in and steer me back on track. Pre-written segment starts now: Alright, chums. First let me state that in NO WAY is the following message a call for a mass claim. If you are the Parity Cop (assuming you even exist), DO NOT SAY SO. In fact, if you're our town's parity cop, it's probably better if you appear to ignore what I'm about to say completely. Same goes for Trackers and Watchers. DO NOT CLAIM. But read carefully, because you are a big part of whether we succeed or fail (whether we follow my plan or not). Now everyone, pay attention: Looking over the roles, the extremely juicy pro-town potential jumped right off the page at me, as I hope it did to many of you. Trackers can tell us if a person visits someone. Pretty good, but not nearly as good as the Watcher, who can pick a person and sees all who visit them. Obviously, this means we can try to guess the guy who's going to be mafia-killed, and we have a couple shots at seeing if he either gets visited, or manage to Track the mafia member who happens to be tagged to do the deed. Not great odds on either, but still better than nothing. My plan utilizes each role to their maximum potential. Because we are not guaranteed to have a Tracker, Watcher, or even a Parity Cop, it's important that for the roles we DO get, we use them efficiently. The Watcher needs to guess the target they think will be mafia-killed tonight. This is up to your judgement, but I'll make a recommendation later today. The fun part comes with the Tracker and the Nosy Neighbor (and by extension Parity Cop). The Tracker should secretly track the Nosy Neighbor. AGAIN, MR. OR MRS. TRACKER: DO NOT CLAIM NOW. If we have a Nosy Neighbor, they should claim IMMEDIATELY. Once the Tracker can confirm that the Nosy Neighbor is in fact moving around at night, but not visiting the person who got Mafia-killed, WE CAN ESTABLISH HIM AS TOWN. This is a big deal. The Parity Cop can then tag the confirmed Nosy Neighbor as Town and start measuring up suspects against them. If he gets a 'Different' claim, the other person is Scum. If he gets 'Same', they are town. I can elaborate further, but I feel like you can all piece together whatever holes are out there without me holding your hand even further. This is an extremely pro-town set-up (assuming there aren't a bunch of red herrings in which case, Hi I'm sponge, and I just gave you all the book on me.) and I'd like to move fast before mafia can organize their thoughts in their private little forum. If we move fast, and force independent action, they lose one of their many advantages. I wont go into my game theory here but can do in another post if people request, however I absolutely believe that the NN declaring is something that the scum would want. There were several people that disagreed with NN claiming, but importantly no one declared Hurricane to be especially scummy for making the post. Aquanim then makes a first post that is clever scum. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote: You wound me. Regarding claims I'm of the opinion that the Nosy Neighbour/Alpha 5 should claim now. This role is similar to a Miller in that it isn't useful for town at all, and could seriously backfire if they are watched/tracked/whatever by a townie. I don't see any downside to a Nosy Neighbour claiming, the worst case is that they play obvtown, get shot, and draw a shot away from actual town power roles. The biggest reason a Nosy Neighbour should claim now is that it eliminates the possibility of a scum fake-claiming it later if he is caught shooting/using a PR on someone. If we establish that a Nosy Neighbour should claim now, anyone claiming it later is caught scum. Obviously, scum can claim Nosy Neighbour so whoever claims it isn't confirmed town by any means. No other power roles should claim, that would be daft. (However, scum should feel free to claim their roles.) Regarding scum Current scumread is Chromatically for two reasons. 1) I don't like the feel of his initial posts. Making troll-cases to get the game rolling is fine, I have no objection to that in as of itself, but there's a certain nit-picking quality to his posts that feels wrong to me. Trying to read something into someone not posting for five minutes is ludicrous. 2) He's been doing a lot of asking other people for their reads while offering nothing even approaching one of his own. ##Vote: Chromatically Aquanim hopes that he can get a few town to agree that the NN should out themselves. Then his scumbuddies can also agree and the NN might claim, giving an advantage to the scum team. Since Hurricane did not get a hard time, Aquanim does not think that he will be lynched for being the first to make the suggestion. Aquanim is fairly sure that when the time comes he can rely on Hurricanes vote for NN to claim, so he really only needs two more town votes, which makes it worth a try. Aqua's scumbuddy, Chromatically, has already said that the NN claiming is a bad idea. Aqua sees a chance to make a good play here and throws a weak vote on Chromatically. It is still early in the day and there is little chance of a wagon forming. Aqua never intends to leave his vote on Chromatically, but is just creating some distance from him so that it wont look suspicious if Chromatically should change his mind about the NN claim. Ofcourse there is the added bonus that if Chromatically should later flip scum then Aqua can refer to his very first post and claim to be confirmed town. Next, FirmTofu defends my weak read on him. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 13:34 FirmTofu wrote: You are taking an extremely simplified approach to analyze my actions. I am not "attacking" or "defending" anyone. I am stating my opinions on how various people are behaving. If you can't distinguish between the two, we have a serious problem here. You can't say that my "defenses" are out of place without even looking at the context of the situation. Read my quote, see if it makes sense to you, and form an opinion based on that. Furthermore, this post is as scummy as scummy gets. You state that you can side with me as I pursue a lynch on Spicy(see 1), but you also consider me to be the scummiest player(see 2). How are these two chain of thoughts compatible? By this point I suspect that either Aqua or Chromatically might put their vote on me, but I cannot say so prematurely, especially since Aqua still has his vote on Chrom. After a little consideration I decide to lurk for a while, as I wanted Chrom to make a post of some sort before I made this claim. Next we have: So right after Aqua realised my above mistake with Firm, he asks Firm for his read on Chrom (who aqua still has his vote on). He is either looking for Firm to give him a good reason to think Chrom is town, or he is looking for Firm to give a scum read on me, or both. Either way, Firm is the most likely town to get onto my wagon at this point, so it is good setup. Here we have Aqua ask Firm again for their opinion on his case on Chromatically. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 16:26 Aquanim wrote: First, scum is unlikely to claim NN day 1 for fear of being counter-claimed. Somebody who claims NN is obviously not confirmed town, but they're considerably more likely to be town. I have personally never seen a day-one miller claim (analogous to a NN, with different investigative rolls) end up being scum, and plenty end up being town. A miller/NN who is thus likely town and can thus play a strong, town-leading role is a HIGHER PRIORITY for scum to kill than a possible bluesnipe. Also, a day-one NN claim avoids two possibly disastrous situations later on: 1) An actual NN being seen visiting someone and being lynched for it. 2) Mafia fake-claiming NN after being seen visiting somebody. Auto-lynching any NN claim is bad for in the first case, treating NN as town is bad in the second case. A day one claim, before there's any desperate need for a scum to fake-claim it, fixes both of these. The gain in information which scum gets from a day-one NN claim IS NOT SIGNIFICANT. Even IF scum has a tracker, a NN claim reduces their pool of players to track by something like 10% (I haven't done the math but it's about that). And like I said, if the NN plays a good town game he becomes EVEN MORE IMPORTANT for scum to shoot. Scum knowing not to track the NN is less valuable than town knowing not to track him. I'm tired of trying to beat sense into y'all about this, and I'm tired of y'all calling me scum over a difference of opinion about game theory. Someone man up and vote me over this trash or start playing the game properly. The other guy's plan was bad for other reasons. In this case, however, I am right, the rest of you are wrong, and I am trying to persuade you of that. I'm starting to feel like this is a waste of time though. My case. On Chromatically. Opinions please. Remember that this was the case that Aqua put forth in his very first post of the game. It was not a strong case and he knew it would never stand, so it was a good way to both give people a town read on his scumbuddy and also create some distance within the scum team. Firm responds that he thinks Chrom is town, which is exactly what Aqua wanted and why he asked him twice. Aqua has now gotten Firm (the person he thinks he can get to vote for me) to say that the scumbuddy that Aqua has his vote on (Chrom) is town. Well played Aqua. Shorlty after, Aqua posts this + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 17:04 Aquanim wrote: I suppose that's a fair enough position to hold. I've personally found that my reads based on 'feelings' are often more accurate than those where I carefully assemble 'evidence'. This doesn't feel to me like the town Chromatic which I played with in Newbie XXXIII. Asking questions is a town-y kind of thing to do, I agree. However, in my mind it is only significantly town-y when there is an actual plan behind those questions. By comparison, Chromatic was asking pretty generic questions without any real point or follow-up. Asking other people for their reads while having shared none of his own does not sit well with me. Pointing out that some plan or another is stupid before anyone else does is a really cheap way of accumulating town-cred without committing to anything. Someone was going to shoot that plan down either way, so a scum player would have nothing to gain from not shooting it down. All this being said, I think that what he's done so far could plausibly be explained by a town mentality as well as a scum one. If he comes back tomorrow and starts playing a good town-game I'll be looking to lynch somebody else. For the meantime, though, my vote and intention stays. There he gets in that his read on Chrom is based on feelings rather than evidence. He is telling us that there is no good reason to suspect Chrom while he still has his vote on Chrom. He closed by saying that if Chrom starts to play a good town game then he will move his vote to someone else, which in this case will be the person that Chrom votes for because they are scumbuddies. Here Aqua mocks Firm for voting due to inactivity because part of their plan was that Firm would vote for me, and he wants to make sure that Firm will move his vote. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 19:35 Aquanim wrote: You're being voted because FirmTofu wasn't man enough to put his vote on somebody he thought would talk back. Don't worry about it, just read the thread and let us know who you think is suspicious. I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on what's happened in the game so far sometime in the next few hours. Chromatically gets back online and makes this post: + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 20:43 Chromatically wrote: Aqua, are you scum? Both of these things are towntells. Explain to me the scum motivation in getting discussion rolling early day 1, which was OBVIOUSLY the reason that I pressured Spicy (and it worked). Sorry, if you thought that it was "ludicrous", but it doesn't make me scum and you know it. If you wanted to know about someone, you could just asked me. I'm not just going to randomly post reads if I'm not going to push for their lynch, but I'll definitely tell you what I think of someone or who my scumreads are. Why wouldn't you ask me for my scumreads if you wanted them? Probably because that's not actually what you want at all. Someone else asked me for scumreads, and I posted mine right below your post, but you haven't reacted to that at all. Does this point still stand even after I've posted my scumreads? Or did your opinion not change at all for some reason? You also said: Oh, this feels more like the scum Chromatic from XXXI? I am very, very uncomfortable with you, Aqua, because you are usually very town from your first post. This game, you've done a lot of shitting up the thread with stuff about claims and Nns. I take that as: 'Okay Aqua, time to unvote me now because I am going to try to start a wagon on someone else and it would not look as good for you to move your vote directly from me to them'. Surprise surprise, in the very next post Aqua unvotes Chrom, which we all knew would happen after reading Aqua's very first post in this game (where he voted for Chrom). The most important line in this post by Aqua is: 'Those reads were pretty weak, I'd like to see more from you', because that is him paving the way for Chrom to begin the mis-lynch attempt. And then finally Chrom makes a case against me and votes. Now, it would be easier for me to vote if I had an individual scum read, but since I am fairly confident that both Aqua and Chrom are scum, I am going to vote for Chrom because I think doing so will force Aqua to take a very strong stance one way or the other. Chrom already has his vote on me, so if I vote Aqua then Chrom does not need to make a decision and can just leave his vote where it is. ##Vote: Chromatically His connection between aqua and chrome is terrible and illogical, but the case on aqua has some good points I will build on. filterOn June 24 2013 16:48 FirmTofu wrote:As for Chromatically...Your case is extremely weak. Show nested quote +Addressing your point 1), you are going off a bad feeling. Feelings don't cut it for me. I need evidence to make a move.I suppose that's a fair enough position to hold. I've personally found that my reads based on 'feelings' are often more accurate than those where I carefully assemble 'evidence'. This doesn't feel to me like the town Chromatic which I played with in Newbie XXXIII.Addressing point 2), it seems quite town to me because it's forcing lurkers to talk. Talking is good for town, so I see this move as something a townie would do.Asking questions is a town-y kind of thing to do, I agree. However, in my mind it is only significantly town-y when there is an actual plan behind those questions. By comparison, Chromatic was asking pretty generic questions without any real point or follow-up. Asking other people for their reads while having shared none of his own does not sit well with me.There are a few other things that make me think Chromatically is town. He was the first person to point out the foolish aspects of Hurricane's poorly thought-out claim. What incentive would mafia have to steer town in the right direction?Pointing out that some plan or another is stupid before anyone else does is a really cheap way of accumulating town-cred without committing to anything. Someone was going to shoot that plan down either way, so a scum player would have nothing to gain from not shooting it down.All this being said, I think that what he's done so far could plausibly be explained by a town mentality as well as a scum one. If he comes back tomorrow and starts playing a good town-game I'll be looking to lynch somebody else. For the meantime, though, my vote and intention stays. Him saying the bolded part really bothers me, it is a failsafe for him to later say his gut lead him to make votes without having to make cases behind it The other big thing about him is he kept the NN thing going way to long almost half his posts deal with the NN, when it is a bad idea, what if the NN claims day one but scum counterclaims day 4 we still dont know who is who it only give scum an advantage and for him to harp on it over and over is scummy to me. ##VOTE: Aquanim | ||
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On June 25 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381931¤tpage=18#344 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386911¤tpage=53#1045 Mate, are you in any way familiar with my meta? If I lead a wagon with serious intent to lynch somebody there WILL be a case. STILL this? 1) A difference of opinions on policy is not scum-indicative 2) If I knew that the NN claiming was obviously scum-favoured and that I had no chance to make it happen, why would I suggest it as town or scum? It would make me look bad either way. Your reasons for voting me are all 12 hours old. It seems a very convenient time for you to bring those up now that there are a couple of other votes on me. Still pathetic. Make a real case or eat rope. As I have said meta is useless in a noobie game as people are still figureing out thier playstyle and as I was about to sleep 12 hours ago and I just woke up I dont see how the timeing is wierd... | ||
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On June 25 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381931¤tpage=18#344 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386911¤tpage=53#1045 Mate, are you in any way familiar with my meta? If I lead a wagon with serious intent to lynch somebody there WILL be a case. STILL this? 1) A difference of opinions on policy is not scum-indicative 2) If I knew that the NN claiming was obviously scum-favoured and that I had no chance to make it happen, why would I suggest it as town or scum? It would make me look bad either way. Your reasons for voting me are all 12 hours old. It seems a very convenient time for you to bring those up now that there are a couple of other votes on me. Still pathetic. Make a real case or eat rope. If there will be a case then why post this about your gut? Sure a differance on opinion isnt scum indicative, but you postion on something pro scum and makeing multiple posts on it is. And if you make a case on it and people agree with you because they dont see the reasons could let it happen. You weren't the first person to ask for the reveal so it did have a chance to convince the NN to come forward. | ||
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On June 25 2013 14:44 Aquanim wrote: Because it's true. If I have a gut read, I do seek to substantiate it with a case to convince other people though. I don't expect anyone else to be convinced by my gut. What about this statement makes you think I couldn't say it as town? (NB. You should be thinking this about any scum read.) This is ridiculous. You just keep repeating the same thing over and over again. Even if it was a pro-scum position, plenty of people had already said they thought it was a bad idea. I knew when I made that argument that I was arguing against thread sentiment and did it anyway, because I thought (and still think) that that claim would lead to town advantage. You can't say that someone is scum just because they did some stuff which they MIGHT do as scum. You have to find something which they WOULDN'T do as town. Necause you dont have to convince everyone just the NN to reveal. And the hell I cant say someone isnt scum because they do things they might do as scum. When people do scummy things normally they are scum... | ||
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On June 25 2013 15:50 Aquanim wrote: Can you explain this some more? What exactly about my play do you think is scum-motivated? Can you please post your case against me as the only thing you have said is I didnt respond when things were going on, well I was going to sleep when HZ posted his case, I responded to the NN thing and have scum hunted and tried to create a useful town atmosphere. | ||
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On June 25 2013 16:33 Aquanim wrote: I have no idea what this request has to do with the post you quoted, but whatever... The first page and a half or so of your filter is just talking about policy, power roles and random fluff without any particular intention of finding scum. This isn't damning in as of itself, early game does tend to be like that, but the entirety of your efforts in the direction of finding scum is an overwhelming tunnel of myself. As far as I can tell, you haven't looked at anyone else at all, and endlessly tunneling a likely lynch target for the day while repeating the same old arguments (made by other people before you, mostly) over and over is a good way to look active while not actually bringing anything new to the table or having to pretend to do some original scumhunting. You haven't made any significant and new contributions to the thread, which is scum's natural state. That being said, I think it's possible that you're town and that you think tunneling me like this is accomplishing something, which is why I'm voting Xzavier over you. Actually I have made a scum hunt albit small on alakaslam, I think he is noob scum which isnt as important as killing a scum who knows what they are doing. | ||
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On June 25 2013 16:48 FirmTofu wrote: Jesus Christ bud, if you think he's scum, by all means vote him. It's not like you know of any scum who know what they're doing, so you not voting for Alakasam is extremely suspicious to me. If I have 2 scum reads I am going to vote for the one that is the biggest threat to town. And the reason I think he is scum is he posts only fluff offers no posts to help town and offers no reads on anyone at all. The only thing he has said is spicy and onegu defend yourself. Then he dissapears, I feel this is super noob scum play but in no way is dangerous to town, on the other hand aqua has posted dangerous even harmful ideas toward town. | ||
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On June 25 2013 17:35 Aquanim wrote: Is there anything about Xzavier and Onegu's play which makes you think they're town besides where their vote is? Personally, I can't see anything about their play which makes me think they're looking at this game with a town mentality and actually searching for scum, rather than just jumping on the only other wagon going. I think they are likely scum but I have a much townier read on you because I can see you're thinking about the game and critically evaluating your reads. Their arguments, on the other hand, are mostly "herp derp he disagreed with us about nosy neighbours" and "look at this single post and how it agrees with something someone else said, that's so scummy!". I don't think either of them could sincerely believe I'm scum based on the arguments they've presented. You said you had some questions for me, will they be forthcoming soon? Ok fine I will admit my case on you with my own findings isnt that strong. And looking at Alakaslam again he is my stronger case. ##: UNVOTE ##: VOTE ALAKASLAM But if we lynch Xzavier and he flips town we will be lynching you day 2. | ||
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On June 24 2013 14:11 Alakaslam wrote: Doesn't town want to make lots of scum reads early and get people to defend themselves? Proving innocence is a great goal for us, and helps to narrow down the scum list so that no-lynch is less likely to happen. Then again, good point regarding spicy and whatnot. Hopefully, cases will flesh out and things will become clearer. Personally I don't have any reads yet, still reading thread. Here he says town wants to make lots of scum reads and make people defend themselves, yet he never not once makes a serious scum read. Ebwop (man I miss edit feature) @onegu- and his expletive messed up your post too didnt it?@hzflank: yet, so far I can only make town reads.+ Show Spoiler +TL;DR: FirmTofu explain what happened with your bbcode that messed up onegu and my posts.It's pissing me off, I pride myself on being able to manage bbcode from my iPhone, a stressful quad-post in my early days produced that. + Show Spoiler +Anyone willing to run a search on Ace and see if he has done anything like that before?Crap, I can see the hole this makes. If we find that's scum play then MAN, we will have to be careful this game as it's really creative.OMGIS! I fell for a bbcode error?!?? This is is only scum read a messed up bbcode and the scum coach has done it before in a different game. As Scum, does it make ANY sense to point out that we should be accusing each other? Yet I did this. This just does not fall in the category of things it makes sense for scum to do.I do agree that much of what I have posted has been odd. You know where a lot of that comes from?+ Show Spoiler +Which I appreciate but late at night it was killing my confidence. Don't worry about doing that further though. I have nothing to hide.Show me some substantial posts so far! I don't want to drop a deuce on everyone but what HAS been very useful so far? Chromatically has been attacked, hasn't really defended himself yet, but others have defended for him. Odd. Then he came in and kind of defended himself.I have attacked FirmTofu, mostly out of bitterness due to the bbcode. Aqua has been attacked, almost for attacking chromatically and for the same reason you have been and I have been- "inactivity". Note I am bound to be bad town this first game. I have learned much from you my good man. If it helps, you guide my vote until you look scummy. Here is his defense from my poke earlier, and alakaslam you are just posting basic scum hunting tactics and then saying I am not scum because I am posting we should look for scum. He also says there arent any useful posts at all out there so why does it matter he hasnt posted any, but it does matter if no one posts useful information go out of your way to do so not just hide behind the fact everyone else isnt doing anything that is what scum wants. Also you shouldnt sheep anyone that is almost the worst thing you can do, if you like what someone says that is fine but you should do your own investigation and add to thier points if possible not just blindly sheep. I see I must post quality!Well Define: quality. Senseless accusations? No, there are people who have done that that there is suspicion toward. I don't see how that helps.Accusing, from me, is going to require more evidence. I'm sorry, I just don't read people very well (yet), and I don't want to do what I have been doing. Well then, does aiding town count? "Shouldn't town be accusing and whatnot because it establishes innocence and is how you scumhunt etc etc" paraphrase."Oh meta is allowed? People have decided they want meta? Here you go, last three newbie games, top of page 13!""Well shit* guys I posted nothing but fluff, really sorry about that"See the above Venn diagram, read my filter, then put it in context reading the thread. It's not scum play it's just try hard bad town. Give me a day/ night cycle and it won't be so bad, more info and I might find one.*earlier I was putting [expletive]. My PC is also linked to my workplace. You should know what helps town and what doesnt. Posting old games just gives people more filler and somewhat useless information to sift through. You arent aiding town you are just cluttering up the thread with useless info. Voting is requested! I will bandwagon out of bitterness until I see a really good defense. Not so much against the bbcode error (that would be hypocritical) but against... Baseless lurker accusations at the start of day 1!See how I roll? Am I going to make those accusations? Maybe (I'm kind of doing just that) but in this case, it's because he already has a vote, and I am thinking of helping a bandwagon.I WANT firm to show up as town, I am super nervous about mislynching! But I need to make a case it seems, and this is what I got because frankly I don't see any great cases yet.##Vote: FirmTofuOut because work Again you just bandwaggon without add anything and when you are called out for it you take your vote off. Awesome point, work lull so SPICY AND ONEGU YOU ARE SCUMBUDDIES DEFENSE YOURSELFS- Hide Spoiler -look at me everyone, LOOK at me and see that I am town! Press me, press me hard because 1. That's how I get better at town and 2. Because I am drawing suspicion as town which doesn't help town. And therefore, in the interests of town, if I am scum I am suiciding! THESE ARE MY TOWNREADS. DO AS THEY DO!Nonetheless, defend yourselves. You've both been attacked (especially you, spicy!). I have made a baseless claim of guilt on you two, nevertheless defend it. Why should I think what I do? Prove yourselves town, then lead it! LETS GO SEE YOU AFTER WORK You think you need to be active so you post something you think will contibute to town makeing people defend themselves but instead you just post more fluff. On a serious note, I will read. Pleas realize folks I'm not trying to detract from clarity but every time I shut up I'm a lurker. So I wind up posting fluff and weasels like my "case" against Onegu and spicy. That was WHOLLY to make a sarcastic point- that I am town, and between a rock and a hard place because I have weak deductive reasoning. It doesnt matter if you have good deductive reasoning or not, you are just makeing an excuse why you arent doing anything, you are only harming town at this point. | ||
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To many doesnt. I think he is noobie scum but to be honest he doesnt know what he is doing. | ||
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On June 25 2013 23:31 Spicydinosaur wrote: What im getting at is that Xzavier's play doesnt feel calculated at all. What i meant by the insult comment was that it wasn't smart from a scum perspective so it gives a townie vibe to me. Xzavier's quick reaction vote can be explained 100 different ways but to me felt like he thought "oh shit im getting votes, let me make a case quick." THAT can look objectively scummy as it does to many others but to me it doesn't. As for the bandwagons, there really is no difference between hiding. If there are two bandwagons going then scum could split. But usually in the games ive played, the first person to get a wagon going typically isnt scum. Like i said before not a huge point as more of a cautious observation. You cant say he isnt scum because he isnt playing calculated, not all scum play calculated if they did this game would be easy. If Xzavier flips scum and there already being a small link between you two I will be voteing you. I want to hear from xzavier again as my read on alakaslam is stronger at this time though. | ||
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On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote: Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes. As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows... Xzavier SpicyDinosaur Onegu They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case. Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. To be honest I dont care who is killed if Xzavier flips town my vote will go on aquanim and if he flips scum I will vote Spicydinosaur. My current read on Xzavier is null with scum reads on alakaslam and aqua. With every post Alakaslam makes he looks more and more like noob scum to me. | ||
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On June 26 2013 02:22 Chromatically wrote: You don't care who is killed? Between xzavier and Aqua. | ||
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On June 26 2013 02:33 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Onegu's statement that he doesn't care whether Xzavier or Aqua get lynched is significant. If this is true, he will not be changing his vote to either bandwagon. If he is lying, he will switch his vote onto one of them at the last minute. We will learn a lot about him. Yes I will be sleeping soon and not up until after the deadline and my vote will stay on my best scum read(Alakaslam), but this vote should give us a ton of information to go on for day 2. | ||
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On June 26 2013 12:11 FirmTofu wrote: [/red]Alright, we got the bad end of the deal with that flip, but we can still make the best of it. Scenario 1: Scum initiated or hopped on the lynch on Xzavier early on in the game. This would mean that LoneMeow/Chromatically/Aquanim are all potential scum. How likely is this scenario? Earlier on in the game, we had Chromatically and Aquanim go at it with a full-on slug fest. Although hzflank had a theory that both could be scum, it remains to be seen that that is the case. HOWEVER, this is still a possibility because mafia have their QT chat available during the day and coordinate in that way. Of the three, I would think that LoneMeow is the most likely to be scum because all he did was initiate the bandwagon that led to the demise of town and contributed little of substance. Scenario 2: Scum did not initiate or hop on the lynch on Xzavier. Q. How would these scum react when they see a bandwagon forming on a townie? A. They would probably try to dissociate themselves from the bandwagon unless it was unlikely that the lynch would go through. Because the lynch was likely to go through, they would behave in the aforementioned way. Okay great! Let's make a list of the players they weren't associated with the bandwagon for the majority of the game. Note: I am including people that jumped on the bandwagon when it was inevitable. 1) hzflank 2) Onegu 3) Spicydinosaur 4) StiMaDDict 5) Alakaslam 6) Hurricane Sponge Of these people, hzflank and Hurricane Sponge are playing extremely pro-town by constantly talking about the game. This should not eliminate them from the running; however, we can temporarily narrow down the list. 1) Onegu 2) Spicydinosaur 3) StiMaDDict 4) Alakaslam Onegu: Onegu votes for Aqua, then a few posts later votes for Alakaslam. Most importantly, he declares his apathy toward the lynch of Aquanim vs Xzavier! The Case Against Onegu: Onegu is [re]scum and Aquanim and Xzavier are both town. Therefore, Onegu is apathetic towards the lynch. He knows both will flip town, so he immediately dissociates himself with that lynch and votes Alakaslam who will not get lynched that day. I will go into further detail about my other reads, but first, I would like to get some opinions about my analysis. Wow like I told you guys before I slept if xzavier is lynched it will give us a ton of information, and yes now I will be leading the aquanim bandwagon as I felt he was scum and his vote and case on him before makes me feel he is the scummiest. Also makeing the claim I dont care brings way to much heat on me if I am scum when I can just put my vote back on aqua saying I should be on a bandwagon. | ||
Onegu
United States9694 Posts
On June 26 2013 12:52 FirmTofu wrote: [/red]You still aren't addressing your scum tell. Come back when you actually read my post please. My vote isnt a scum tell and neither is my apathy toward who get lynched, jeez think about it, me doing what I did is something only town would do, scum wouldnt do it because of all the backlash if scum really didnt care they would put thier vote on on of the two bandwagons and not say much as to why they voted. I gave you reasons for my vote and reasons why I was ok with both of them being lynched, none of that is a scumtell. The fact xzavier flipped town we should be looking at people who piled on to his bandwagon they would want to ensure the lynch of the person with the most votes so there isnt a last minute swich onto one of the scum. | ||
Onegu
United States9694 Posts
On June 26 2013 13:26 Hurricane Sponge wrote: [/red]Can you make an updated case for either Aqua or Alakaslam, whoever is your primary target at this time? Yes I will, I want to see what night actions are though. Aqua is my main focus now, like I said it would be day one if xzav flipped town | ||
Onegu
United States9694 Posts
On June 26 2013 13:33 Hurricane Sponge wrote: [/red]I'd really love to hear them now, in case you get NK'd. Ok I will post them after breakfast and I take care of my kid. | ||
Onegu
United States9694 Posts
On June 26 2013 13:33 Alakaslam wrote: Nonchalance toward lynching someone on no case? Man, I am at a loss but don't tell me. Reading Onegu's filter just gave me the chills. Kind of should but I'm not going to defend because homework, and trying to understand the above. I will say Onegu has been antagonizing me since early on and so if he flips red a lot of my confusion will lift. I took him for correcting errors, thanked him and apologized immediately following this, and he is then attacking the errors. I took it as town play because he was fixing errors but how manipulative a scum you can find must be beyond me. Main thin I'm learning so far is do not disregard the general guide thread. Or read it and forget. I was trying to help you at first but then the things I helped you with you didnt incorparate it into your play makeing feel scum from you. | ||
Onegu
United States9694 Posts
On June 26 2013 14:10 FirmTofu wrote: [/red](1)Town wouldn't do it either because it is a scum-tell so the bolded point is invalid. (2) Your vote was contradictory to your statements. It was a scumtell, you can't deny that. You are simply saying "I'm right and you're wrong" and that really isn't much of a defense. You should be saying "I made a mistake and I meant to say..." You are digging yourself deeper into a hole that you won't be able to crawl out of at this point. Its not a scum slip and it wasnt a mistake, nor is a scum tell my reasons for it were valid I explained my reasons. If I was scum why would I annouce my apathy, look for motivation behind actions dont just say it is a scum tell. | ||
Onegu
United States9694 Posts
On June 26 2013 15:11 Hurricane Sponge wrote: I will explain why I want people to cease talking out loud about these specific topics. We, as town, outnumber mafia. At this point, I am convinced that we are also the better players. Daytime is a great time to deduce why mafia did what they did, because we have the Power of Lynch as the next killing action. Night time is not because the mafia get to follow our chain of thought. As we say things like 'Oh Bob is safe, they can't kill him because then we'd know X', we've just betrayed that advantage. Now, they CAN kill Bob. Add this to the fact that when we treat mafia as an amorphous blob like this we get no closer to actually finding out who they are. But even saying something like, 'Well Bob is probably gonna die because I think Steve is scum and Steve hates Bob.' is detrimental to the town. What if Bob dies now? They just heard you say that you think it's Steve's fault. And what if Bob doesn't die? Is Steve now innocent? Mafia controls those action items. It's not so much we need to deny them information. It's more that we can better use this time interpreting the flip and going back over the filters to try to find relationships. Scumhunting is how you win. You don't get some magical prize if you can correctly vet out publicly the mafia's best shot for the night. Especially considered the vast unknowns with our own Power Roles. Policy aside, in this specific game, I call upon the town to have faith in the players that are manning our Power Roles. They're not dumb. If you've thought of it, odds are they probably thought of it when they got their Role PM. Go find a filter and let's do some dumpster diving. Talk is good. Gameplanning for the other team is not. Wow this is the best post I have seen this entire game, stop directing blue roles, stop looking for blues and look for scum. | ||
Onegu
United States9694 Posts
On June 26 2013 14:28 FirmTofu wrote: So Alakaslam, if you want to clear yourself in my eyes, you are going to have to vote Onegu. That is the only way I can know for sure that you guys aren't on the same team. If he flips town(which is extremely unlikely), you are cleared of all blame. If he flips scum, you will be scrutinized, but I will take some time to reconsider because you did vote for him. Voting for Onegu is a win-win situation for you if you are town. The only reason you wouldn't vote him would be if you are scum. The ball is in your court. You feel you need to bully the most inexperianced mafia player to vote for me? You have no case except a bogus scum tell so you have to bully someone to vote with you? | ||
Onegu
United States9694 Posts
On June 24 2013 17:04 Aquanim wrote: I suppose that's a fair enough position to hold. I've personally found that my reads based on 'feelings' are often more accurate than those where I carefully assemble 'evidence'. This doesn't feel to me like the town Chromatic which I played with in Newbie XXXIII. Asking questions is a town-y kind of thing to do, I agree. However, in my mind it is only significantly town-y when there is an actual plan behind those questions. By comparison, Chromatic was asking pretty generic questions without any real point or follow-up. Asking other people for their reads while having shared none of his own does not sit well with me. Pointing out that some plan or another is stupid before anyone else does is a really cheap way of accumulating town-cred without committing to anything. Someone was going to shoot that plan down either way, so a scum player would have nothing to gain from not shooting it down. All this being said, I think that what he's done so far could plausibly be explained by a town mentality as well as a scum one. If he comes back tomorrow and starts playing a good town-game I'll be looking to lynch somebody else. For the meantime, though, my vote and intention stays. Ok This post has a few points in it the first I have already touched on where he says his reads based on feelings are more accurate than ones where he assembles evidence, this can be a easy cover for when he bandwagon votes and doesnt give much of a reason. The second part bothers me also as asking questions and genererateing discussion is always good as long as they further town reads you dont have to offer your own reads as long as you make a much better town atmosphere that is helpful and town based. I agree with the third point but will come back to it later. It is even better to vote for people who have posted some stuff but haven't been useful, since you'll probably get a reaction out of them (and others) which will help you find scum. Voting a lurker doesn't accomplish much at this point in the day. Actually pressureing people who lurk at that point in time is one of the best things we can do because again makeing people interact is pro town allowing for lurkers at this point lets it be ok for scum to lurk also because there will be no pressure to post and give up information. So why defend lurking here? Meta in newbies is of limited usefulness, particularly for assessing scuminess directly - people's scumgames could change dramatically. However, if someone has demonstrated a capability for making cases/scumhunting/not being utterly useless/etc. there is no reason why that capability should disappear. I won't magically choose to start playing worse just for the sake of changing my playstyle.I am making the point that I can and will make cases to justify my vote when necessary, which I can prove by citing previous games. You cant use meta to prove your case. You even say it is only limited in usefullness but you will use it to prove your case, sorry it doesnt work that way. And it does dissapear just look at xzavier this game compared to last game he was town both games but played much different this game and he played worse this game. Useing something that has almost no usefullness in a newbie game to prove something is scummy. Because it's true. If I have a gut read, I do seek to substantiate it with a case to convince other people though. I don't expect anyone else to be convinced by my gut.What about this statement makes you think I couldn't say it as town? (NB. You should be thinking this about any scum read.) But you never substantiate your case on xzavier with your own thoughts and reads you use others. Your case is he doesnt contribute anything to town, and that his game got worse from his previous game. Lastly, who says scum play has to be finely calculated? He said himself he was pressed for time - there's no reason why that shouldn't negatively impact the quality of his planning and calculation if he's scum. This actually seems like you are covering for scum teammates who aren't playing calculated. There's a pattern here of wanting not to lynch people based on their strong play in previous games... which has absolutely no relevance to this game. Could be a side-effect of him not having time to read this thread properly, but not wanting to commit to anything relevant to this game is characteristic of scum. He says this is a characteristic of scum but he contridicts himself here when he talks about past meta and useing it to prove his cases, because you can be useful in a previous game and not useful in this game but that doesnt automaticly make you scum. That got kinda sparse towards the end simply because I'm tired of repeating the same thing over and over again.Well, a double townie flip is distinctly less than good, but Xzavier being green still tells us a lot. Obviously I'm the only one who knows certainly that I am town, but from my perspective (seeing this as a double-townie-wagon kind of day) I doubt scum took a hugely active role on Xzavier's wagon or on mine. They may not have been the most active but it makes sense they would be on the Xzavier wagon as it guarentees that the isnt a last minute change of votes onto a scum member the votes were still kinda close so if people got of of xzavier then it is a good possibility that someone other than xzavier or you could have been lynched. Also if you are scum then the scum had to pile on to make sure some of the random votes not on you couldnt swich and kill you but instead make sure Xzavier died. Like I said, a Vigilante is unlikely to be mislynched since he can claim, and the odds of him being shot are relatively low. A Vigilante is likely to be alive in the next night phase, and being able to take a shot when there is more information to decide a target is a good thing. Why put the claim part in here, so you want the NN and Vig to claim? Blues claiming this early is the worst possible thing for town, scum already have more information than us why give them more? Also I really dont like directing blue actions especially in a noob game that is what coaches are for, also there is a great guide on teamliquid forum about vig role and who and when to shoot, we dont need to tell them who or when to shoot, have confidance they will figure out the right thing to do. I asked the question to hear your reasons for thinking I won't be shot tonight, so as to get a better idea of how seriously you're analysing the game. I can see your point though about direct relevancy and the answer isn't vitally important to me at the moment, so I'm willing to let that question go. I am interested in knowing why you asking in the first place, it is a very convienent way to fish out information as scum without looking bad, but when someone calls you out on it you drop the question entirely this is scummy to me. I'm not reading filters at the moment, I'm living the rest of my life and occasionally checking the thread to see if anything interesting pops up. So you are bleimeing people for not seriously scumhunting when you arent doing it yourself? All of this combined with the NN policy and his vote on Xzavier makes him very scummy to me and dangerous to the town atmosphere also. I will be filter diveing and asking some questions while I have some free time today also. | ||
Onegu
United States9694 Posts
On June 24 2013 11:15 FirmTofu wrote: Scum Hunt Day 1: Analysis: Trying to appear friendly with an innocuous greeting. Seems to project an air of insecurity. Preliminary Conclusion: Scum Analysis: Neutral statement of fact. Preliminary Conclusion: Need more information. Analysis: Exudes power with strong capitalization techniques along with a greeting. Preliminary Conclusion: A leader with a powerful role. Analysis: Trying to establish a connection with a player that he has interacted with prior to this game. A metagaming, manipulative sort of move. Preliminary Conclusion: Scummy Analysis: First baseless accusation. As the old chinese proverb states, "He who smelt it, dealt it." Preliminary Conclusion: Scum Suggested Lynch: Chromatically His first post is nothing, it doesnt promote a good town atmosphere nor does it get anyone to defend themself as the cases are just BS. As an aside, I would prefer if the accusations remained within the confines of this game and this game only. That is to say, judging people on the differences between their past games and this one is a rather boring way to play the game. Again this is jsut posting about a discussion we were haveing and posting something on it but not actually giving a good reason. Sorry it is boring is not a legitimate reason to do or not do something in mafia. As I am about to go to bed, I would like to go ahead and##Vote: fyfy because he is the only person who hasn't spoken yet. Keep your eye on Stim and Meow as well because they are lurking, especially Stim. As I am about to go to bed, I would like to go ahead and##Vote: fyfy because he is the only person who hasn't spoken yet. Keep your eye on Stim and Meow as well because they are lurking, especially Stim. Such a wierd choice on who to vote but more on this in a moment. It wasn't pure spam, and I certainly hoped it would generate discussion. I knew I could not really say anything of substance at that point, so I decided to do something fun that would get people talking. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. When you look at this post and contrast it to some first few posts, you can clearly see that singling me out as a target is rather silly. But it was pure spam, when you say it was something fun that means it is spam. Just because Stim seems scummier than fyfy doesn't mean fyfy shouldn't be voted. I wanted fyfy to talk and I wanted to draw attention to him. That was the reason for my vote. Nothing more, nothing less. We can address Stim now that I am awake. But why try to get someone who hasnt talked at all to try to talk? Someone who you know has posted and is most likely to post again is a much better choice to pressure, unless of course you dont want them to have to talk more... I almost agree with everything you said. The problem arises when you realize that the case you've made for aqua is a hell of a lot stronger than the case you've made for Chromatically. Is this something you have overlooked? Or are you deliberately weaving a story to pit town against one another? For the time being, it's hard to tell one way or the other, but I did enjoy reading. So you agree with almost everything? Regardless, I see your story as a plausible conspiracy theory, at best. Acting upon it without further evidence is dangerous. Most of your post relies on speculation about the player's true motives. I agreed with it in the sense that it was a plausible theory, not that it was particularly likely. For the record I have you both pegged as town and I think you are both wasting precious time accusing one another. His conspiracy idea arose mainly because you accused him of being scum. I see his post as a long-winded retaliation against your credibility to ensure that no one bandwagons him to oblivion. You agree with almost everything but its just plausable and you have town reads on both of them. What a quick backpeddle there, why so fast? 3) You defended fyfy while accusing me of not voting for Stim instead of fyfy. There was no reason to say that when both were perfectly good lurker targets that were largely interchangeable. But there was a big differance and in no way were they interchangeable as all you have to do is look at the ammount of posts they have had. 3) My point is your reason is stupid. What difference does one line of posting make? Seriously? Accusing me of being scum based on one line that someone else wrote? It makes a HUGE difference that one line means you know someone has posted and more likely to post again, while you do not know if the other will post or not. 2) For fyfy, I still hold that there is no difference between the lurkers and you claimed that there is a difference. I think your reasons for claiming that there is a difference are stupid and make no sense because only one line separated one from the other. Why do you continue to defend fyfy? It's quite intriguing. Why do you keep on there is no difference when there is one and spicy wasnt the only one to point it out, with fyfy fliping green this becomes much more relevant. I would remind everyone of the voting rules.Voting rules:Voting is done in this thread. You cannot PM me your vote.Please vote in the following format: ##Vote: Qatol. Votes not done in the correct fashion may not be counted. Vote counts will be updated whenever intermittently.No conditional voting.You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game.In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins (or loses).You may vote for a No Lynch in the format: ##Vote: No LynchVoting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.If you do not think Chromatically is scum, then please vote either 1) No lynch or 2) Someone else.In the event of a tie, the person who gets voted up first, dies. Why post this all it is is fluff and takes up space. Sounds great! Could you consider looking through Xzavier's filter and reading Chromatically's case against Xzavier and consider voting for him? I would be willing to take you off my scum list if you would do that. So you are happy at first with my statement what changed? I concur. The Xzavier lynch didn't actually have the highest chance of flipping scum for me; however, it definitely provided invaluable information that we can use throughout the game. I'm glad to see we agree. So you blast me for saying I have a better read on alakaslam but not voteing him then when I do vote him I am scum, but you didnt think the xzavier lynch didnt have the highest chance to flip scum? And me saying before the lynch I am ok with either lynch because the xzavier lynch gives town the most information, but when you say the same thing after the lynch that is perfectly ok? REALLY? I disagree. vigi should shoot the target most likely to flip scum, and that is most definitely Onegu at this point.P.S. I wouldn't mind Spicy either *wink wink* Directing blue roles is bad and wrong dont do it. So Alakaslam, if you want to clear yourself in my eyes, you are going to have to vote Onegu. That is the only way I can know for sure that you guys aren't on the same team. If he flips town(which is extremely unlikely), you are cleared of all blame.If he flips scum, you will be scrutinized, but I will take some time to reconsider because you did vote for him.Voting for Onegu is a win-win situation for you if you are town. The only reason you wouldn't vote him would be if you are scum.The ball is in your court. This is bullying you say if you dont vote how I want you to then you are scum and I will come after you also. Bullying? I don't see how this is bullying at all. I'm giving him a choice that he can choose to accept or not and I letting him know the consequences of his decision. If he doesnt make the choice you want him to then there will be consequences is the definition of bullying. Also, Onegu isn't being pro-town by calling me scummy. He's being anti-town. Almost all of town agrees that I have been one of the most pro-town players this entire game. Where are these people and I would ask them to look at your filter again and go ahead and say you are one of the most pro-town people in this game. You have tunneled spicy, xzavier and me and havent done much else other than bully alakaslam andmpost fluff. And when Xzavier flips town you say you didnt even expect him to flip scum. | ||
Onegu
United States9694 Posts
On June 26 2013 21:18 hzflank wrote: I would really prefer us not to end up in an Onegu vs Aqua vote because I think they might both be town, and I am confident that the town can find much better scum reads than either of them. What about my tofu case? | ||
Onegu
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On June 26 2013 22:55 Aquanim wrote: I don't see either of these "cases" written by Onegu as real cases at all. All I see is random sniping at isolated posts in my and FirmTofu, often taken completely out of context. I don't see any actual explanation of what makes any of this stuff scum-indicative. I'll reply to a few of these to illustrate my point, but I don't see the point in replying to all of them. Again, if you actually read my post I am not defending lurking. I am saying that one can bring out more information in the thread by voting someone who is actually present than by voting a lurker, which is a statement of fact. If a lurker isn't actually available they can't post and so pressuring them accomplishes nothing. If somebody is in the thread, but saying nothing of value, THEN you pressure them. If you look at my post in context I was using MY previous meta to say that I can and will make cases when the need arises. This IS a valid use of my meta. I have made cases in the past; therefore, I am capable of making cases. It's a direct, logical proof. There is NO WAY in which this is wrong or scummy. And again, my read on Xzavier was NOT strongly dependent on his play in previous games. From my perspective, his play in this game deserved to be lynched on its own merits. I do keep having to repeat myself when I talk to you... I don't think there's any reason to believe I'm covering for anyone besides wild speculation on your part. The subject of this statement was Xzavier, who flipped town. Who would I even be covering for? There's a difference between my argument and the one Xzavier was using. My argument: Xzavier was useful in a previous game and isn't being useful here, in a way that indicates scumminess. This is an indication that he is scum, so we should lynch him. Xzavier's argument: Spicy and I were useful in a previous game, you should leave us alive because I might be useful later. However, somebody's good play in a different game doesn't make them any townier in this one by extension. Xzavier's argument made absolutely no sense, whereas mine did. 1) I have no idea why you're bringing up the NN in relation to this 2) If you'd actually read my post and understood it I'm saying that the vigilante claim is only in the case that he is about to be lynched. What makes you think I want the vigilante to claim now? I never said anything of the sort. 3) What about this post is more "directing" blue actions than the posts I was replying to? Directing blue actions is as a general rule bad I agree, but what I said does not benefit scum to know in any way and was important for the vigilante to know. It is important to consider the specific case rather than applying blanket rules. 4) I don't have any way to know that anyone else in this game has read any guides (as I recall the guide, it doesn't talk about this particular situation anyway) or is talking to their coach. Do you seriously expect me to be playing the game and reading into everyone 24/7? Are you bloody serious? I can't even fathom why you think this is noteworthy, unusual or scummy. I'm not sure if I kept these points in order, and I didn't reply to all of them, but frankly I'm bored of repeating myself. In short, Onegu's case on me is largely speculation as to possible (and in some cases, unlikely) scum motivations which some of the things I've said could conceivably have. Again, I don't see any reasons why what I've done (or what FirmTofu has done) are definitely scum-motivated. These cases read to me like Onegu is trying to pull something together to justify his predetermined scumreads, rather than determining his scumreads by the quality of the cases he can present (which is obviously an awful plan from a town perspective). I still don't know that he's scum for it (townies do the daftest things) but if he is scum I would be disgusted to lose to this play. I honestly don't think he understands my posts and arguments at all. Whether that's because he's incapable/lazy as town, or incapable/lazy/deliberately obtuse as scum, I'm not sure at this point. Ok your case isnt that good and if I would have looked at firmtofu's case first I most likely would have not posted yours but from before xzavier flipped town I felt you were scum and I knew I was going to make a case on you after he flipped town, I think there are still a few good points but I looked a little harder than I should have because I had said if xzavier flipped town I would come after you. That being said my case on firmtofu is good and has alot of correct points. And I believe he is scum. And I will address a few things on that on my next post. | ||
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On June 26 2013 21:52 hzflank wrote: I think the first half of your case against Tofu should of been made on day one. It's the kind of stuff we were using yesterday when we had less information available. The part about directing blue roles is a bit better, but that could be a town mistake that a new player would make (and we are all new). I noticed the bully also. Whether this is town or scum depends on who he votes for. If he is planning to vote for you (Onegu) then this is a scummy thing to do. On the other hand, it may of been a trap he was laying for Alakaslam. We dont know because Alakaslam dodged it. I have also noticed him tunneling Spicy. After the flip I got a 'good town' read on Spicy. To clarify that, I have little reason to see Spicy as scummy at the moment and if Spicy is town then I think he has played a good game and been the most useful of us all. However, I was planning do some analysis of Spicy tomorrow to try to get a stronger read on him. Your case is reasonable, but I am not willing to put my vote behind it because it contains nothing about the voting and the flip. I do not think we should ignore the voting from day 1. It shouldn't matter when it was posted the information is still relevant. The bully was directed at me he tunneled me for a while then when alakaslam defended me he bullied him to vote me. And he is still tunneling spicy also saying he doesnt mind a vigi shot on me or spicy. And it does cover the flip where he says Xzavier didnt have the highest chance to flip scum for him. But it also shows how he was happy I wouldnt vote for Aqua and would help the xzavier vote pass. | ||
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On June 27 2013 00:29 Chromatically wrote: Onegu, you had a scumread on Aqua all of day 1, posted a case on him, and then dropped it saying that "it wasn't that good". What's your read on Aqua and why did your opinion change? I still feel he is scum but I cannot prove it at this point, my thought process was if xzavier flipped scum to lead a bandwaggon on him but that isnt possible it is looking like. My scum team is Aqua Firm And either Alakaslam or lonemeow as the third leaning more toward alakaslam as the third. | ||
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On June 26 2013 23:47 Spicydinosaur wrote: Few thoughts on Onegu: I'll try not to repeat what others have said for the sake of spamming the thread. About his apathy claim between xzavier and aqua: I don't get why he said this as it makes 0 sense from either a town or scum perspective as his vote wasnt even on one of them. What i find more interesting is that regardless of the lynch, he will not be voting for Alakaslam next day. He claimed that if xzavier flips town, aqua gets voted, and if he flips scum, i get voted. What happened to Alakaslam? His Aqua case: He seems to be tunneling aqua now (again?) with an updated case. A lot of it seems very nit picky. but i still come back to one thought... What about Alakaslam? I understand that reads change over time, but onegu went from voting aqua to alakaslam and now back to focusing on aqua. Why isnt alakaslam a priority target now? Unless i missed a post buried in the 6 pages of thread i caught up on. I am ok voteing alakaslam but I dont think he is that much of a threat to town, my 2 other scum reads by thier playstyle are more dangerous to town. | ||
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On June 27 2013 01:12 Spicydinosaur wrote: What about their playstyles makes them more dangerous? Alakaslam hasnt made any reads, hasnt pushed any agenda and hasnt posted much besides. None of this hurts town much it just doesnt help town. The others are actively trying to mislead and trick town. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232671 | ||
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On June 27 2013 03:04 Hurricane Sponge wrote: I don't think you're scumbuddies. I think Aqua is town. I'm confused by your actions. If I saw two wagons forming, one on a Townie and one on someone I thought was Scum, I'd get on that Scum bandwagon no matter what it looked like to make sure the right man dies. I can say this with confidence because it's exactly what I did. If you were town, that's the behavior I'd expect. I could see how maybe if you thought both xzavier and aqua were town or both were scum you could justify your apathy. But having different reads on the two main wagons, and just letting them roll by you baffles me. In a bad way. I only had slightly different reads it would not have supprised me if xzavier flipped scum, and it didnt suprise me he flipped town. That being said if I had a town read on him what you say is correct and I would have put my vote back on aqua. As it was I put my vote on my best case made a good case for him and when I was going to sleep 8 hours before the deadline it didnt matter much to me who was killed, and it was also possible people would have read my arguement and voted alakaslam also. The problem where I stay is I am usally not up for the deadline so I have to make a vote and decision well in advance of everyone else. | ||
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On June 27 2013 03:18 FirmTofu wrote: Yes, you did try. I wasn't being fair when I added you to the list. I don't think you are scum, but you supporting Onegu's weak case against me was making me reconsider. Anyway, you haven't addressed the core reasoning, so I take it that you agree? My claim against you isnt weak and you havent addressed any of my points. In addition to that you lied in this game and did not come forward with your plan until you were called out on it. Your lieing not only decieved someone you didnt tell them what happend after you got what you wanted until someone caught you in a lie. you are useing very scummy tactics in lieing and bullying and think that is a perfectly normal town thing to do, it isnt it is a scum tactic. | ||
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On June 27 2013 14:18 Alakaslam wrote: Hold on, I had a really long work day and I'm really confused by all that has happened. Sad day for town. Chromatically's post will be put up by me soon This doesnt make any sense... You will be makeing a post for Chrmatically? | ||
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On June 27 2013 14:27 Hurricane Sponge wrote: So you're off Alakaslam and Aqua now? No I am just looking for more reads. Firm aqua are my first 2 reads, my third read is still on alakaslam but isnt as strong as the first 2 | ||
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On June 27 2013 14:51 Alakaslam wrote: This post jumped in importance by leaps and bounds after that flip. I do have a weird way of playing the game: losing it + Show Spoiler + both the game and my head Notice "I was able to refrain from posting for a while though. That is an improvement in calming down." (read spoiler) + Show Spoiler + No it's not, I had work all day. But what I DID learn from that is that we aren't as vicious against lurkers as I thought, I can collect my thoughts before posting and thereby be better town. Should have done this a long time ago. Read that spoiler unless you're skimming. It is important. My read on this? I have suspicions toward Onegu, especially as Chrom's strongest scum read, but there are things about him I stated in my defense of him to FirmTofu as well as one other thing I won't waste the time and energy elaborating on. It would just be fluff. And also: FirmTofu fulfilled my requirement to get me to vote Onegu. I could do it now. But my actual original self made scumread that I'm not very proud of but that I'll stand by is StimaDDict. As the other policy lynch I would say vote him, but we don't have the manpower for policy lynches anymore! SO- Let's go, make cases, PROVE OUR TOWNIE INNOCENCE (I think we have neglected that some of us ) and MOST importantly SCUMHUNT WITH PRECISION! I'll work on StimaDDict, I figure I have made a case I had better make it stronger. How has he fulfilled the requirememt his only "scum tell" on me is my apathy toward who was killed, but this isnt a scum tell, and when you look at motiveation for doing so, there is zero reason for a scum to announce it. I could have not said anything after putting my vote on Alakaslam and let that ride out, or put my vote back on aqua or onto xzavier, none of these things bring attention to myself. | ||
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My read on this? I have suspicions toward Onegu, especially as Chrom's strongest scum read, but there are things about him I stated in my defense of him to FirmTofu as well as one other thing I won't waste the time and energy elaborating on. It would just be fluff. And also: FirmTofu fulfilled my requirement to get me to vote Onegu. I could do it now. You are waffleing and that is a scum tell, I am suspicious but there are things I can defend him and other reasons I wont post,but I can vote for him. | ||
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On June 27 2013 18:19 Aquanim wrote: @Onegu: The prevailing thread sentiment at the moment appears to be that you are a favoured lynch for today. I imagine you don't want that, so who do you think we should lynch instead? Your goal should be to persuade the thread that your scum read is more likely to flip scum than you are. My strongest read to flip scum is firmtofu, he has lied and bullied to get his vote on someone he said wasnt likely to flip scum. | ||
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On June 27 2013 06:25 FirmTofu wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 26 2013 20:58 Onegu wrote: Going to make a case on FirmTofu also as looking over his filter looks scummy also. His first post is nothing, it doesnt promote a good town atmosphere nor does it get anyone to defend themself as the cases are just BS. Again this is jsut posting about a discussion we were haveing and posting something on it but not actually giving a good reason. Sorry it is boring is not a legitimate reason to do or not do something in mafia. As I am about to go to bed, I would like to go ahead and##Vote: fyfy because he is the only person who hasn't spoken yet. Keep your eye on Stim and Meow as well because they are lurking, especially Stim. Such a wierd choice on who to vote but more on this in a moment. But it was pure spam, when you say it was something fun that means it is spam. But why try to get someone who hasnt talked at all to try to talk? Someone who you know has posted and is most likely to post again is a much better choice to pressure, unless of course you dont want them to have to talk more... So you agree with almost everything? You agree with almost everything but its just plausable and you have town reads on both of them. What a quick backpeddle there, why so fast? But there was a big differance and in no way were they interchangeable as all you have to do is look at the ammount of posts they have had. It makes a HUGE difference that one line means you know someone has posted and more likely to post again, while you do not know if the other will post or not. Why do you keep on there is no difference when there is one and spicy wasnt the only one to point it out, with fyfy fliping green this becomes much more relevant. Why post this all it is is fluff and takes up space. So you are happy at first with my statement what changed? So you blast me for saying I have a better read on alakaslam but not voteing him then when I do vote him I am scum, but you didnt think the xzavier lynch didnt have the highest chance to flip scum? And me saying before the lynch I am ok with either lynch because the xzavier lynch gives town the most information, but when you say the same thing after the lynch that is perfectly ok? REALLY? Directing blue roles is bad and wrong dont do it. This is bullying you say if you dont vote how I want you to then you are scum and I will come after you also. If he doesnt make the choice you want him to then there will be consequences is the definition of bullying. Where are these people and I would ask them to look at your filter again and go ahead and say you are one of the most pro-town people in this game. You have tunneled spicy, xzavier and me and havent done much else other than bully alakaslam andmpost fluff. And when Xzavier flips town you say you didnt even expect him to flip scum. Here is the post accusing me of everything and anything Onegu could get his hands on. Although I have addressed nearly all of his points in various posts, I will condense it and address each one in detail here so that you only have at one place to read all of it. Onegu and Spicy's Point 1: FirmTofu made a scummy first post that detracted from the quality of the thread. My Defense: If anything, I made some good cases against people who had already talked based on what I knew at the time. Look at the other posts in the first few hours of day 1. Are any of those similarly fluffy? Is mine somehow more filled with fluff than any of those? Honestly, at that point, what do you expect me to say? Onegu and Spicy's Point 2: FirmTofu doesn't want us to discuss metagaming and is therefore scummy. My Defense: I don't want to discuss metagaming because I am philosophically against it. If you look at any of my other games, I have not once discussed previous games to influence the ongoing one(Oh, the irony is strong with me). Onegu and Spicy's Point 3: FirmTofu voted fyfy instead of StiMaDDict who had posted once in the thread. Voting someone who hasn't talked(fyfy) when you see that there is someone who has talked(StiM but has lurked is scummy because StiM actually has a chance of responding. My Defense: I voted fyfy because he hadn't posted. I wanted him to post. I also wanted StiM to post, in fact, I told everyone to keep an eye on him. The only reason I didn't vote StiM as well is because I can't actually vote twice. To say it is scummy to vote for one guy who I thought was scummy instead of the other guy I thought was scummy is ignorant. I would have voted for both if I could have. Onegu and Spicy's Point 3: FirmTofu agreed with hzflank's theory that Aqua and Chromatically were secretly working together, but then quickly backpedaled and said he didn't think it was likely. My Defense: I didn't backpedal. I articulated my thoughts on the matter through a series of posts. My statement was that hzflank's theory was plausible, but unlikely. I never deviated from that line of reasoning. My first post says that I almost agree with all of his reasoning because I knew it was a possible scenario. My later posts explain that even though it is possible, it's very unlikely to be true. Even hzflank admitted later that his theory wasn't likely to be true. Was he backpedaling too, why do you think he is free of blame? Onegu and Spicy's Point 4: FirmTofu blasted Onegu about the fact that he didn't get on the Xzavier lynch and instead voted for Alakslam, but now FirmTofu is still accusing Onegu as scum when he didn't vote for town-flipped Xzavier. My Defense: You are taking the situation out of context and making it sound like I had the same beliefs at both times. Pre-lynch, I was under the assumption that Xzavier would flip mafia, therefore I thought you were mafia for avoiding lynching him. It looked like you were trying to save your mafia buddy, so I called you out on that. Post-lynch, circumstances changed. As I have explained numerous times, your actions of voting Alakslam (to make yourself appear as though you are town by not voting Xzavier who you know is town) and your statement of apathy is what convinced me that you are scum. Onegu and Spicy's Point 5: FirmTofu lied to Hurricane to get Hurricane to vote for Xzavier. My Defense: I lied to ensure that Aquanim would not get lynched. If you recall correctly, my first choice lynch was actually Spicy and the only reason I ever switched to Xzavier was because no one was backing me up and my vote was essentially useless. I agreed many town members that Xzavier was scummy based on numerous points, so I decided he would be a decent person to lynch and get some information on. Remember, I had to defer to a sub-optimal lynch! All the other points don't amount to much and just aim to hurt my town cred. If there is anything specific I haven't addressed, please let me know. Sorry its been a while but I want to address this real fast first. Point #2 While I agree useing metagameing is bad you reason that is boring is what is scummy. Point #4 Except you say you didnt expect him to flip mafia. So now you are saying you did expect him to? I concur. The Xzavier lynch didn't actually have the highest chance of flipping scum for me; however, it definitely provided invaluable information that we can use throughout the game. I'm glad to see we agree. And if the above post is how you felt you lied to lynch someone who you thought would flip town. | ||
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On June 27 2013 07:42 FirmTofu wrote: I didn't come forward after my lie because it would just detract from what we need to be doing, pursuing scum reads. Suppose I did tell everyone I lied. Then suddenly, all the attention shifts to me and I end up wasting time defending myself instead of looking at other reads. Because I know I am town, and I want town to win, I didn't tell everyone that I lied and hoped that it would go unnoticed. Unfortunately, that did not happen, and I did have to waste time defending myself. Who cares you should have come forward as soon as night cycle started then gave your reasons and things could have been cleared up fast, but you didnt you got caught in a lie and tried to smooth things over after being caught. I am sure you hoped it went unnoticed because it is a scum tell! | ||
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On June 27 2013 18:33 FirmTofu wrote: That has got to be the worst interpretation of my actions I have ever read. My lie was told to Hurricane to save Aquanim from a lynch. My "bullying"(I don't even agree with this term) was so Alakaslam would vote for you. When did I say you were not likely to flip scum, exactly? Not me you said Xzavier wasnt likely to flip scum. And what you did is bullying, telling some one to do something and if they dont you will label them scum and get them lynched is bullying. | ||
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On June 27 2013 20:43 FirmTofu wrote: FirmTofu's Case Against Onegu Point #1: Onegu seems to be looking for reasons to vote me that he doesn't necessarily even agree with. Example: Onegu initially states that meta is bad and you should "stop trying to meta peoples play." Then, when he wants to make a case against me, he uses my failure to use meta as an excuse to call me scummy. It seems like Onegu has differing views on meta depending on when it is convenient for him to think one way or another. Point #2: Onegu switched his vote from Aquanim to Alakaslam rather arbitrarily, suggesting that he knew Aquanim would flip town and everyone would blame him, so he moved to his "second best" scum read. Example: Here we see Onegu buiding a case for Aquanim and establishing that he believes Alakaslam is "noob scum" and is a lower priority lynch to Aquanim. I have bolded all relevant areas. Then, as soon as he is pressured, he backs away from Aquanim. CONTEXT! At this point, removing his vote caused the tiebreak scenario between the lynch of Xzavier and the lynch of Aquanim to be lifted. In essence, this move sealed Xzavier's fate and saved Aquanim from being a probable lynch. This ensured that Onegu would not look suspicious post-lynch because he wouldn't be responsible for the death of a townie. Point #3: Onegu was wanted to lynch Aquanim if Xzavier flipped town, but post-lynch, he didn't even pursue Aquanim at all. (See last quoted post) The most critical part of this post lies in the last sentence. What changed? Why did he give up on Aquanim? Nearly all of Onegu's case for me relies on events that happened prior to this post. There is absolutely no reason for him to suddenly switch his vbest scum read from Aquanim to me. A townie in this position after Xzavier's flip as town would pursue Aquanim to no end. The only explanation here is that Onegu is scum, and he sees me as a greater threat to his mafia team than Aquanim. Point #4: Onegu declared his apathy to both the Xzavier and Aquanim lynches shortly thereafter with no developments other than his case for Alakaslam. Note: He reiterates that if Xzavier flips town, Onegu's vote will go to Aquanim. This is further evidence for Point #2 and is also indicative that Onegu still has not shifted his suspicions onto me. He says he has scum reads on Alakaslam and Aqua, but doesn't vote for Aqua who was the only one likely to be lynched that day. The scum reasoning behind this is that he doesn't want to be suspected post lynch(Point #2). A townie would be willing to push their second best scum read(Aquanim) if he was the only scum read that was even on the table. Only scum would try and pretend as though Alakaslam was a viable option. Elaboration on why apathy is a problem: Onegu's apathy towards the lynch on day 1 is a clear scum tell. An honest townie, in his position, would never have switched from voting Aquanim to voting Alakaslam. Even if the townie thought Aquanim was a sub-optimal lynch, he would have been willing to pursue it was the lynch that was even remotely likely to go through that he agreed with. However, scum Onegu was obviously apathetic about the lynch because he knew that, no matter what, a townie would die. Therefore, to clear himself of blame, he quickly got off the wagon he was currently on and allowed the other wagon to take precedence. This way, no one could accuse him of being the reason for getting a townie killed. It was a brilliant move, until of course, he was honest about his true intentions. Point #5: Onegu's entire case against me is a scummy OMGUS that only serves to maim my authority and credibility. The only thing that happened right after post-lynch was that Chromatically and I drafted up separate cases against Onegu. Nothing else changed. There was absolutely no reason for Onegu to change his scum read of Aquanim to suddenly attack me. Here is his case for reference. + Show Spoiler + On June 26 2013 20:58 Onegu wrote: Going to make a case on FirmTofu also as looking over his filter looks scummy also. His first post is nothing, it doesnt promote a good town atmosphere nor does it get anyone to defend themself as the cases are just BS. Again this is jsut posting about a discussion we were haveing and posting something on it but not actually giving a good reason. Sorry it is boring is not a legitimate reason to do or not do something in mafia. As I am about to go to bed, I would like to go ahead and##Vote: fyfy because he is the only person who hasn't spoken yet. Keep your eye on Stim and Meow as well because they are lurking, especially Stim. Such a wierd choice on who to vote but more on this in a moment. But it was pure spam, when you say it was something fun that means it is spam. But why try to get someone who hasnt talked at all to try to talk? Someone who you know has posted and is most likely to post again is a much better choice to pressure, unless of course you dont want them to have to talk more... So you agree with almost everything? You agree with almost everything but its just plausable and you have town reads on both of them. What a quick backpeddle there, why so fast? But there was a big differance and in no way were they interchangeable as all you have to do is look at the ammount of posts they have had. It makes a HUGE difference that one line means you know someone has posted and more likely to post again, while you do not know if the other will post or not. Why do you keep on there is no difference when there is one and spicy wasnt the only one to point it out, with fyfy fliping green this becomes much more relevant. Why post this all it is is fluff and takes up space. So you are happy at first with my statement what changed? So you blast me for saying I have a better read on alakaslam but not voteing him then when I do vote him I am scum, but you didnt think the xzavier lynch didnt have the highest chance to flip scum? And me saying before the lynch I am ok with either lynch because the xzavier lynch gives town the most information, but when you say the same thing after the lynch that is perfectly ok? REALLY? Directing blue roles is bad and wrong dont do it. This is bullying you say if you dont vote how I want you to then you are scum and I will come after you also. If he doesnt make the choice you want him to then there will be consequences is the definition of bullying. Where are these people and I would ask them to look at your filter again and go ahead and say you are one of the most pro-town people in this game. You have tunneled spicy, xzavier and me and havent done much else other than bully alakaslam andmpost fluff. And when Xzavier flips town you say you didnt even expect him to flip scum. Nearly all of his points refer to supposed "scum-tells" that occurred pre-lynch. If he thought those were scum-tells, why didn't he bother to bring it up when it actually mattered? Why did he conveniently start to think I was scummy RIGHT AFTER I accused him? The only explanation for this sort of behavior is that he doesn't actually think I am scummy, he is just looking for reasons to convince others to think I am scummy so no one will vote him. TL;DR: Please, don't take shortcuts reading this if you are town. I took a great deal of time to compile this and it is the best possible case against Onegu I could ever make. Skimming is not going to cut it. If you actually read this entire thing and don't agree that Onegu is at least a little scummy,without giving any valid reasoning, I am just going to assume you are scum. Pont#1 I do agree we shouldnt use meta and I gave good legitamite reasons for why we shouldnt, my point was you said we shouldnt because it is boring. Point#2 I never said Aqua would flip town, I always and still do think he will flip scum, I even made a case on him night 1. And when I swiched my vote Xzavier was still set to be lynched because he got his votes first. Point #3 The only thing that changed is your lie and looking a ton more scummy. Once you are lynched I will be voteing Aqua again Point #4 I have addressed this many times. Point #5 My case is against a confirmed liar who lynched a townie who he said he didnt think would flip scum. My case against you is legit. I am sorry I didnt go over your filter day one I should have but it doesnt matter when I bring up a case on someone the points are still valid. | ||
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On June 26 2013 12:48 FirmTofu wrote: I concur. The Xzavier lynch didn't actually have the highest chance of flipping scum for me; however, it definitely provided invaluable information that we can use throughout the game. I'm glad to see we agree. You say it here | ||
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On June 28 2013 01:09 FirmTofu wrote: I said Xzavier wasn't the MOST likely. I never said he wasn't likely. I read it wrong but still you lie to push a lynch you didnt have the most confidence in the point still stands. | ||
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On June 27 2013 23:52 FirmTofu wrote: A few things to be wary of: Onegu is probably shitting his pants right now along with his scum team, who are currently trying to come up with the best plan that minimizes their losses. You need to hold Onegu accountable not only for his response, but also the time he takes to formulate one. The longer he takes, the more indicative it is that he is scum. I apologize for all the grammatical and spelling mistakes in my case against Onegu btw, I was really tired when I wrote that. Wow very nice I was at the hospital, go read my blog I am disabled and my son is disabled so sometimes I have to take him or mymyself to the hospital, so the time it takes for me to respond is in no way a scum tell. Really people have lives besides mafia so how long it takes for someone to respond is in no way a scum tell stop makeing up scum tells to push your lynches. | ||
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On June 28 2013 00:32 FirmTofu wrote: Town has to maximize the night cycle to throw out all of their best scumreads so that in the event that they die, town will have the maximum possible information to work with from a sincere individual. If Onegu was town, he would have tunneled Aquanim instead of using an OMGUS tactic to discredit me. He, as town, should have already been convinced that Aqua was scum because of his statements the previous day that if Xzavier flipped town, Aqua was scum. Even though I accused him of being mafia, a town-focused Onegu would still consider Aquanim his best scumread instead of shifting attention onto me based on a flimsy case that relies on Day 1 reads that he could have just as easily made on Day 1 itself. I made a case on Aqua during the night, after I made it I went through your filter and made a case on you. I have in no way stopped on aqua, aqua even says during day 2 that I am tunneling him... | ||
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But for now you are more scummy and my vote is on you ##VOTE: FirmTofu | ||
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On June 28 2013 01:27 FirmTofu wrote: I didn't say it was a scum tell, I said it was indicative that you are more likely to be scum. You didn't tell us you were going to the hospital, so how am I supposed to know that. I hope your son is okay. Sometimes we dont know and have to see his doctor last minute, but tomorrow I have a doctors appointment and am not sure how long I will be gone. | ||
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On June 28 2013 01:28 FirmTofu wrote: Tunneling entails pushing for the lynch, not just criticizing his activities. Regardless, I suspect that you would be apathetic to a lynch between me or Aquanim, am I right? Actually yes I dont mind which of you is lynched as I have strong scum reads on both of you. | ||
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But you Firm is much stronger and my case on you is much stronger. | ||
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On June 28 2013 01:15 Onegu wrote: And youmsay you hoped they lie wouldnt be caught. You case on me is based only on my apathy and that isnt a scum tell, my case on you is legit. Ebwop: Sorry I am posting from a tab with no spell check and I am a terrible speller anyway whay it shoild say is And you say you hoped your lie wouldnt be caught. Your case on me is based only on my apathy and that isnt a scum tell, while my case on you is legit. Comeon town he never came forth with his lie hopeing it wouldnt be caught so he could lie again to get what he wants. | ||
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On June 28 2013 03:57 FirmTofu wrote: I would just like to say that I have moved you and Alakaslam onto my town list. I will expand on this during night. Right now, I want to focus on getting the lynch on Onegu through. I sincerely hope we can count on your vote. Lol very nice. Push your agenda. | ||
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On June 28 2013 05:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Some points on Onegu that I think deserve refreshing: Extremely Anti-meta... ... then uses Meta to defend StiM. Picks on the most scatter-brained townie (umasi / alakaslam) in both XLII and XLIII games. Even links the two... ...and later admits that he views Alakaslam as the most inexperienced mafia player in the game Tries to set up a Day 2 lynch for Aqua on Day 1 when he switches his vote from Aqua to Alakaslam Post-flip announces that he will be leading the Aqua bandwagon. Then proceeds to vote for FirmTofu: Defense for day 1 voting apathy is WIFOM... ...when he's already proven he's willing to do this as mafia in XLII. Has a history as mafia of doing the 'vote for who i think i scummiest even though they have no chance of being lynched today' play (He was the only one who voted on Umasi on Day 1 in XLII, much like he was the only one to vote on Alakslam in Day One here) Likes to announce that specific townies are 'noob town' in both games. Has made actual cases this game; did not as mafia in XLII The whole stim thing is because we have no posts to work off of if I could make a case with his posts I would, but you cannot as he hasnt posted. I tunneled umasi the entire game last time as mafia I didnt try anything else just him. O didnt scum hunt I didnt try to make the town a better atmoshphere like I am this game. And as I have said further I am happy to lead a lynch on aqua, my first case after day one was on aqua. If we didnt have a admitted liar manipulateing votes I would be on Aqua. My apathy isnt a scum tell. And this game I voted for who I felt was my best case. So what they are noob towm this is also not a scum tell | ||
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On June 28 2013 14:19 FirmTofu wrote: Onegu, you have to tell us why you targeted Alakaslam. It's critical to verifying your claim. I may consider you confirmed town if you give the right answer, so it's your best bet at not being lynched today. Dont worry I will I am in a time crunch now getting ready for doctor, but when I am back regardless is Alakaslam has respoded or not I will give you my reasons. | ||
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On June 28 2013 14:40 Alakaslam wrote: Wait who visited me? No wait I need to tea his claim again HE watched Hurricane- he visited hurricane, may as well spill the beans now that I am a class A idiot. Quick thing before I walk out the door, I watched you Alakaslam, someone who I have a town read on visited you. I was hopeing to either confirm my suspicions on you or see if you are town by who visited you, I was unable to do so as the person who visited you doesnt confirm anything, except it makes me wonder why he visited you and the only thing I can think of is he thinks you are scum also. This makes me lean scum on you. It in no way clears you. | ||
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On June 28 2013 14:58 Alakaslam wrote: I have no idea if I was visited but Onegu visited Hurricane. What you are confuseing the hell out of me, be clear what are you saying? | ||
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##VOTE:ALAKASLAM | ||
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On June 28 2013 15:17 Alakaslam wrote: Thank you. What is the difference? But yeah as my role is Tracker, I tracked him. There will be no blue to vouch for him. He is lying. His scum play is incredible compared to us, he has led the game like a true puppet master and destroyed me singlehandedly. i am not lieing there is a blue role who can vouch for me. He shouldnt and I will not reveal him even if there is a mislynch on me if you mislynch me and the blue reveals scum will night kill him and we most likely willnot have anymore blues. | ||
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##:UNVOTE ##:VOTE: ALAKASLAM | ||
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##:UNVOTE ##:VOTE: ALAKASLAM Also I am really out the door now. | ||
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Also did you confirm you visited alakaslam Hurricane? I am reading amd it looks like you did confirm. I watched Alakaslam and he was visited by my biggest town read in Hurricane. | ||
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On June 28 2013 18:38 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Could be, but is it likely? What's to stop the mafia from deducing that I was Watcher Onegu's target, and sending their Tracker into the thread to claim? You made it obvious as soon as I revealed you took your vote on me, the you said I made it to obvious and then you were the one saying hardcore I shouldnt say who I saw visit. | ||
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First they dont want a confirmed blue walking around, second Alakaslam was picking up significant heat already so if this ploy doesnt work so waht he was likely to be lynched anyway and I dont think he was very useful to scum anyway how he was playing just made confusion amd brought attention to himself takeing this risk to take out a confirmed blue is well worth the risk. | ||
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On June 28 2013 20:07 hzflank wrote: I just want to put this out there for anyone who cares to answer: What are the odds that there is a Mafia Tracker who tracked Hurricane? It is possible, look at it this way I watch alakaslam, a scum tracker watches hurricane go to alakaslam, I claim then it is easy for them to put out a fake claim because they have all the pieces. | ||
Onegu
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On June 29 2013 01:16 FirmTofu wrote: Last night, the mafia tracker Onegu visited Hurricane. Onegu learned that Hurricane visited Alakaslam. This scenario is compatible with Alakaslam's claim that he tracked Onegu who visited Hurricane. Today, Onegu was being pressured hard and wanted to get the pressure off of himself. He decided that the best way would be to claim watcher and say he watched Alakaslam and have his "strongest town read" confirm him. The problem was that Hurricane is the Nosy Neighbor and didn't actually know where he went. That's why Hurricane came into the thread accusing Onegu, not Alakaslam. This establishes that 1) Onegu did not make a bad move as scum. Risky? Sure. Bad? No. 2) Hurricane is innocent. For all those who vote Alakaslam, you must ask yourselves who the other two mafias are. StiM and LoneMeow is a cop out answer. Look at how fast the Alakaslam wagon is rising. I guaruntee that all or most of scum are already on it. Read the Op the NN knows where he goes... He just cant control it. | ||
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On June 29 2013 01:28 Alakaslam wrote: Ebwop bbcode strikes again confirmed it. HI SCUM. This is NOT a CONFIRMATION at all! This may be a strong hint but it can't be confirmation because that is false! Hz thought he confirmed it I thought he confimed it and spicy thought he confirmed it, he used some really round about ways talking about it. | ||
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On June 29 2013 01:36 FirmTofu wrote: Just as I suspected. Your thoughts, hzflank? This doesnt change much, if he is NN it still means he was the only one who could have visited him. But we need to hear fromHurricane first. | ||
Onegu
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Except when I claimed Hurricane defended me and took his vote off of me, it wasnt until the scum team tried thier move that he got confused and he was tired. So wait for him to get back and respond. | ||
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On June 29 2013 01:51 FirmTofu wrote: It explains Hurricane's behavior and why he couldn't trust you. It establishes Hurricane as town and not the mafia framer, which hzflank was worried about. If Hurricane isn't mafia, then there are very few people left that could possibly be on a potential Alakaslam's scum team. 1) Obviously, someone on Alakaslam's scum team wouldn't be voting for Alakaslam at this point, so we can eliminate anyone doing that. Remaining Options: FirmTofu StiMaDDict LoneMeow I know I am town and I think hzflank agrees, so hzflank would have to say that both StiM and LoneMeow are scum in this scenario. This doesn't seem very likely from my point of view. I still dont understand how people can confirm a liar who has lied 2 times now to get votes on people he wants lynched. And I believe my other points on you are still valid. | ||
Onegu
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On June 29 2013 01:16 FirmTofu wrote: Last night, the mafia tracker Onegu visited Hurricane. Onegu learned that Hurricane visited Alakaslam. This scenario is compatible with Alakaslam's claim that he tracked Onegu who visited Hurricane. Today, Onegu was being pressured hard and wanted to get the pressure off of himself. He decided that the best way would be to claim watcher and say he watched Alakaslam and have his "strongest town read" confirm him. The problem was that Hurricane is the Nosy Neighbor and didn't actually know where he went. That's why Hurricane came into the thread accusing Onegu, not Alakaslam. This establishes that 1) Onegu did not make a bad move as scum. Risky? Sure. Bad? No. 2) Hurricane is innocent. For all those who vote Alakaslam, you must ask yourselves who the other two mafias are. StiM and LoneMeow is a cop out answer. Look at how fast the Alakaslam wagon is rising. I guaruntee that all or most of scum are already on it. Then with this why didnt I claim tracker? Why watcher? With your theory If I claim I tracked hurricane to Alakaslam wouldnt that be the best course of action with no risk? | ||
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On June 29 2013 02:16 Alakaslam wrote: What case do I make? I call again to my initial reaction. Does that seem like a fabricated scenario? I was totally thinking I was agreeing with Onegu, not contradicting him. I was even laughing about green not keeping his eyes off pink! And then what. My slow realization that I was starting a much bigger event... Please explain how my reaction looks calculated at all. Because its not, and it's OMGiS again. At least it may turn out well. You have appered flustered this entire game it would look wierd for you to act confident with the counter claim. This isnt a defense. | ||
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On June 29 2013 02:25 FirmTofu wrote: Because claiming tracker would get people to immediately consider the possibility that you are the mafia tracker not the town's tracker. Both claims have equal risk until you realize that claiming watcher is smarter because no one can say that you are actually a mafia watcher. I don't know why I'm telling you this because you have already thought all of this through. The risk is no where near equal, what if two people visited Alakaslam I would have no answer if I fake claimed. | ||
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On June 29 2013 02:19 Onegu wrote: Then with this why didnt I claim tracker? Why watcher? With your theory If I claim I tracked hurricane to Alakaslam wouldnt that be the best course of action with no risk? Also with your case for what reason would scum track hurricane? | ||
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On June 29 2013 02:33 FirmTofu wrote: To see if he was blue. To try and decide whether he would be a good target for the following night. I mean, you are scum, so you tell me. I am not scum and you brought up the point in your theory, so it was a fair question. | ||
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On June 29 2013 02:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Alright, I'm all caught up. In the end, one of the biggest Facts I've deduced from all this is that Onegu has made some incredibly bad plays, whether he's Scum or Town this game. If anyone needs my opinion on something, now is the time to ask. Otherwise, I'm going to continue analyzing Aqua's argument. Can you confirm if you are NN or Blue clearly and not just hint it. | ||
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Sorry the way I read it you did confim, or I wouldnt have brought you into this and I am sorry for that. | ||
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On June 29 2013 02:50 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Oh come on. That's gotta be the most scummy question ever asked in this game. Of course Mafia would want to know my exact role. How is that at all relevant to the current vote?! Read all the posts, it hinges on if I am lieing or not, and basicly firms case againt me is about this. The entire thread blew up about if you are NN or knew what happened. | ||
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On June 29 2013 02:54 FirmTofu wrote: We don't need Hurricane to confirm unless it is critical to convincing hzflank/StiM/LoneMeow to vote for Onegu. First one of those 3 people has to state that Hurricane's role will decide their vote, and then Hurricane can decide whether it is worth it to claim. Ok I can agree to this. | ||
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On June 29 2013 03:22 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Yes. Onegu I need you to make a post (similar to my pre-NK requests to everyone) assuming you will be mislynched tonight. I need all your Scum and Town reads, and a brief justification for your feelings. If you are mislynched, the town is in a bad position, and we need as much information as possible about your unique experiences and interpretation on how this game has played out. Don't feel like you have to make full cases on anyone, just give me your reads (gut feels are fine) that you think will be vital to the game going forward. @Alakaslam Ditto for you. Need a post of your reads in the event you are mislynched tonight. Ok no problem. Give me a moment. | ||
Onegu
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Alakaslam FirmTofu And either Lonemeow or Stim Null reads Aqua, I still want to say he is scum but he is my main defender so I do not know. Townreads Hz Hurricane Spicy If I am lynched today you have to lynch Alakaslam first as he will be confirmed scum, second look at the liar who has lied to people 2 times now to get the vote he wants, then you have to decide between stim, lone and aqua useing your best ability and who is still alive after night kills. | ||
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##Vote: NO Lynch | ||
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On June 30 2013 12:13 hzflank wrote: We need to know your role. If you are Tracker then Hurricane is 100% confirmed town NN. Theoriticly what does this acomplish? If I am goon or framer it means zero, and if I am tracker he will most likely be NK as a confirmed town. This does nothing doesnt where my vote go give you more info? | ||
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On July 01 2013 04:45 hzflank wrote: Nothing is confirmed, though. In theory any of us could be scum. There's just a couple of things we need to know to solve it, but we obviously cannot afford a mis-lynch to get that information. Therefore, we need people to post their thoughts (on anything and everything). I know this is not the most helpful thing, but I would rather not actually have to ask the question(s?) that I have, as if people happen to give up that information freely then we can solve it. So talk people. Ask me anything, if it helps. I am reserving the right to not answer certain questions, though. So your thinking I cant possibly be scum right? It just doesnt make since. I mean we already found out from firm tofu that lieing isnt a scum tell right? | ||
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On July 02 2013 11:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Survey Says...? Onviously no lynch | ||
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Obv | ||
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